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Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
cool letter.. cant wait to see wat kind of responce you get.
Diddo.......Let's see if the big boss will let us play.
Great Letter Aggie. I would think the MS resposne would be pretty good about this. MS has been pretty good with other technologies lately in opening it up and taking feedbacks from users.
One thing is for sure. THERE IS NO OTHER PLACE BETTER THAN HERE TO TEST/TWEAK/BETTER WINDOWS MOBILE.
We do have a vast number of volunteers here that do a helluva job in making these roms faster and better.
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
!! Sweet !!
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
They need more of this for WM device settings...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2362050448778905490&q=steve+ballmer+remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5oGaZIKYvo
rizzo said:
What makes you think they aren't doing this already?
Where do you think this 'leaked' version originated from, anyway? And why is it literally painless to install?
MS has employees who actively troll this group (among others) to get feedback..good and bad...for their "pre-release" warez. They just lurk in the shadows (rightfully so, speaking up would make them the whipping boys of the forum...)
Since the hardware mfr and/or the service provider of the device is the one who decides whether or not to 'upgrade' your device with the latest and greatest OS (based heavily on whether or not they want to support multiple s/w versions) MS can't make any money off simply selling their product to the end user. Unlike the PC model of selling you a retail boxed version of a new operating system for your PC.
No money to be made = no money to be lost. Think about it.
All that being said, the most important thing to remember is that they will ACTIVELY shut down any site hosting their software without their permission. If they fail to enforce their copyrights by legal means, it further weakens any argument in future lawsuits regarding others who pirate their software. They will also quickly piss off the likes of t-mobile, cingular, and other service providers if they provide the end-user a means of bypassing their process of certifying the stability of their phones.
They will continue to operate in this way for a long time. They get free beta testing from 'hardcore users' while looking the other way. It's genius if you ask me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, you might be right. But, aren't they allowing WM6 on the Universal? That may change the equation.
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
I support Texasaggie1
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
pzucchel said:
Hi, i would like to support the request. It makes damn sense, I am an old-time Linux user and i think that Microsoft would show great marketing sense in allowing us to test it. I will not argue about the advantages and benefits,
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Thought is NO-ONE. As all we do is RUN these ROMS and Tweak them to perform in the best way that they can. All that everyone does here is readily available and can/could/HAS been adopted by Developers, Networks & Manufacturers alike.
jwzg said:
My gut feeling is that one or more of the ROM cookers in here works for M$. You don't know some of the things they do without having a lot more background knowledge than the average joe. There's nothing wrong with that, of course...that means better products for you and me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt any of the 'cookers' work for Microsoft. Although difficult, it's fairly common to reverse-engineer someone elses code and mold it into something that you want. Once you get the hang of how things work and make the script kiddie tools to do it, it's fairly simple.
One thing that a cooker can't do is write an entire OS then 'leak' it onto the internet and call it WM6, this is done by someone entrusted with copies of it for legitimate purposes. Blame HTC or any of the ODM's if you want, but it my opinion, it would be a waste of your time.
If you want to infect the world, you must spread your disease. MS has come a long way in this regard with the likes of gaining on Palm, RIM, symbian, etc.
Microsoft has always leveraged piracy to work in their favor...those that can't get the disease (or otherwise can't afford it) will have access to it. If you can't make the sale, might as well get them hooked fo' free!
pzucchel said:
and one simple question: Who would be negatively affected by it? HTC? Microsoft? other users? Network providers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
texasaggie1 said:
Dear Microsoft,
I am writing this letter to ask permission for Xda-developers.com and it's users to officially use, develop, and share the new Wizard WM6 roms on this site. I know that you are currently not allowing us to do so. I believe it is in your best interest to let us. Here is why:
1) User Testing - allowing us to develop and share the WM6 rom for the wizard will open your product to a huge amount of testing. On this site, we don't just use our phones, we push them hard. We love to see the most we can get out of them. We get bored with what we have, so we load a new rom and see what it can do. 3 days later we load another. You will not find a better place on the Internet to test your roms.
Also, it will allow us to test compatibility with new and existing software. This site is already reference material for most software developers and even HTC. In our never-ending search for information about these devices we find things such as tricks to make them better, security holes, and all sorts of information that 3rd party companies can use.
All of this work is done by volunteers who, although they may gripe from time to time, feel a sense of satisfaction for doing this work. You can't buy their level of loyalty.
2) Goodwill - Allowing us to use, develop and share the WM6 rom will create a massive amount of goodwill on this site for your company. Since you are the biggest player in the game, you are currently subject to TONS of criticism everywhere you turn. People usually see you as this huge faceless corporation that wants to control people and take their money. I read the blogs of Microsoft employees and know this is really not the case. Allowing us to work on this rom openly will create goodwill that no ad campaign can buy.
3) Money - The bottom line is that you will save money. Money that might be spent on research will be saved by free research on this site. Money spent on ads to generate goodwill will be saved by the goodwill generated on this site.
I appreciate your consideration of this matter. Please let us know of your decision.
Sincerely,
texasaggie1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agreed texasaggie1 said but dont forget in all devices rom ,MS just part of 70% of rom others 30% belong to HTC,T-mobile...etc, the reason we need to cook rom in here not really problem belong to MS that belong to HTC,
MS understand HTC was first OEM used Mobile window,but MS can understand why we need to cook rom in here ? do you hear anyone cook Window XP ? MS must understand device rom is different with Window XP,MS just proved PB and AKU ,device also need driver and some of OEM program otherwide device(phone) will not working,you can see in rom kithen had OS/LOC/OEM , SO belong to MS,LOC/OEM belong to HTC,T-Mobile..etc. this is different with window XP,if today all rom made by MS than no one can said anything,but not in this case ,we in here not only help MS also help HTC,T-Mobile...etc. too, they got how many free employees to worked with them,now Apple will come out IPhone ,I dont think MS want to lose market to them,we in here 100% support to MS , I dont understand what piont they refuse us ?
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I would be very suprised if they gave this consideration, they will wait for the 'next gen' devices up to come to release it on in my opinion.
Besides we must face it, most people that are using these phones these days do not flash their device, nonetheless, know what it is.
We are the few flashing samurai that cannot live with a stock rom, and want to "juice" our hardware to get our money's worth. \m/
I will say If you live in the US now you will see that parents are buying their teenage kiddies smartphones/ppcs now for a couple reasons. 1) To ward off an appl music/video product, and of course. 2) To be able to reach them anywhere with the phone service.
It would have been funny to say that most people on this site are using/have used the wm6 leak already, so we might as well work together for free, for a learning purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Good reply.
I know all of this is a long shot. But it's been bugging me lately. I had to post this letter.
Flashing/Testing New OS = Good Experience
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sorry, please don't take this the wrong way. But this is one of the silliest ideas I have seen in a long time. Think for a moment about the support headaches from even 20% of their users playing with ROMS versus the 2-3% that do it now. And you think some of the NOOBS on here get annoying forget about regular users!!!
I think things are about perfect the way they are. A little "unofficial" help lets us hardcore users reap the benefits of upgrading with out the hassles. Trust me if ROM upgrades became more official they would kill groups like this. They would charge for the upgrades and they would want to control them like they do desktop OS upgrades. I say no thanks to that. It's like the early days of Napster, or more recently You Tube taking down tons of videos, those things were much better before they became mainstream and then they had to change.
I will say this. MS should figure out how to make the CID & SIM Lock a separate part of the rom like the radio and bootloader, make it totally separate from the Rom & Extended Rom itself. That would allow tweakers to change roms with out worrying about Locks and would make the phone companies happy too. And I am sure users that need unlocking would figure that out too
BA_Flash_GOD said:
I think M$ should show more of the average users that yes, you can upgrade/downgrade your current rom very easily. This would let all users have the option to use any individual one to meet their needs. I'm guessing another big issue would be CID locking though, wouldn't that be another breech of contract for M$ to the original phone service providers? What you guys think
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
anyone who wants to can use google. I seriously do not think that its neccesary to let the world know. they could know... if they wanted to. Bad idea imho.
rizzo said:
Sorry, but I had to chime in on this one, too. Maybe some people don't see it, but we ARE actively beta testing their software.
If you develop software, and want to have beta testing do any good, there needs to be some kind of order. Visiting forums to find information is chaotic at best. Sifting through page after page of hijacked threads and RTFM type questions isn't going to yield the feedback a company needs to squash the bugs out of code. If enough people complain about a particular 'feature' then it might get the company to try and replicate it in-house, but its very unlikely that you'd ever hear anything back from them.
End-users modifying their devices by flashing it with unreleased firmware it wasn't originally designed for is dangerous, and can cause a ripple effect if it's not managed. As long as the company stands by its "hey, we never said this code was finished - not to mention you're not supposed to have it" stance, it can shield them from almost ALL liability in you bricking your phone. In the mean time, hardcore folks like us will continue shoving the bleeding-edge not-ready-ware into our phones in order to tell the tales of our adventures to all that will listen - and MS will continue "leaking" their warez into the wild.
The minute Microsoft starts bending these rules for folks like us, then they are going to have to answer to THEIR customers (HTC, network providers, etc) when the nOObs start flooding their call centers for warranty-return requests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry but I have to side with rizzo on this one. They will never officially come out and allow this because they can't. You are asking them to agree to a. Code leaking, b. Code theft, c. Software Piracy in a sense (since you have to not acquired a legal copy and have not paid licenses for it), d. Copyright infringement. What company in their right mind say yes to this and open up the flood gates? And like rizzo said allow them to be liable for consumer or partner lawsuits as well?
As much as I agree with the original heartfelt post, we say what we say for argument's sake. They have already responded numerous times by allowing this and turning a blind eye. Every now and then they complain, either because we did step on some toes or because they officially have to say this is not allowed. If they really tried, they could cause some serious legal trouble. They choose not to, for a all the reasons mentioned in the original post.
So don't ask the impossible. Don't expect windows to become an open source application or windows mobile to release official betas to the public (not for sometime anyway). Pigs just don't fly sorry.
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
It's a long shot
igalan said:
I have to agree with Rizzo. Besides, Microsoft won't spend resources on releasing ROMs for old devices, giving them for free to users and then having no way to recover some of the investment, because the Wizard is being phased out. It doesn't make sense.
However Microsoft can open a program for betatesting their ROMs, that is completely possible. A program that involves registering every user that gets the ROM, once we agree not to ask for support and all the legal stuff. And provide the means to keep track of bug reporst, etc. But still if you want to beta test something, you want to do it on the device where it's intended to be used the final release, and I don't think our Wizards are going to get an official WM 6 upgrade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a long shot, but they do allow WM6 in the Universal thread. Maybe they will for us. Maybe we try again to post WM6 roms in a few weeks and see what happens??
Dear dissatisfied HTC Customer,
Before reading this, remember I am NOT encouraging you to boycott HTC. But I think most of you, who are going to do that, are really knowing what your reasons are.
As For me it really seems that we paid for something that HTC did not provide, I think we all have seen great dissatisfaction and complaints here on the forums, which some of us are unable not to agree with. Some people even culminate the dissatisfaction simply by ending the customer relation with HTC.
I figured it would be nice to see how badly did their Kaiser backfire, and the way they handled their customers with this. So please, if you feel that you have had enough and are going separate ways with HTC, use the below link to inform HTC about your decision. Also remember to tell them why you chose to do so. Remember to add that you are talking about Kaiser. And also remember to tell them that you most likely won’t be recommending HTC devices to anyone, and will probably do your best that no-one gets screwed like you did, if you feel like that. That should teach them a lesson!
Also after doing that report back on this thread! So we get to see how it affected their customer base in this forum and hopefully even more widely, a bigger picture. With some math we can speculate what was the damage for them. Hopefully this will help them also to see what they did, and see it would have been everybodys benefit if they did things right at the first place.
Below are the links to inform HTC about your decision. You probably best to aim the e-mail to their "customer service"!
European ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/europe/CS_Mail.aspx
North American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/us/CS_Mail.aspx
Latin American ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/la/CS_Mail.aspx
Asian ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/tw/CS_Mail.aspx
Middle-East and African ex-customers:
http://www.htc.com/mea-en/CS_Mail.aspx
The reason why I find this really important is that, we really need to get the information on their face. That is where petition signing and things like that fail! I bet after receiving few thousand of this kind of e-mails the information will be passed to the persons concerned. That will not probably help us, but prevent them repeating what they did. Link to this thread would also be good on any other HTC/Kaiser related forum, so we get a collection of all dissatisfied ex-customers overall.
Sincerely Yours,
Henry
Ultimately dissatisfied HTC-EX-customer
ps.
you are still "allowed" to use your current HTC devices the best way you can imagine, since most of us paid a good price for it! For me that would be a paperweight or as a "viviparous lizard's tail".
I just informed HTC-europe that I will never be their customer again! I WONT!
Edit.
Actually, what I did say was, I will boycott them until the justice has happened in this case. Too bad it seems that will never happen. But that will give them at least a little reason to do back the bad things they did to us. They would get me back!
Done.
I am in charge of mobile devices and syncing with Exchange for a 2500+ employee company. I had started migrating people to s620's but have since moved them to HP iPAQ Messengers until a non-HTC device comes out that fits our needs.
So, while I'm not buying any more, I'm making sure nobody at the company (even personal purchases) are HTC.
-Mc
sent to http://www.htc.com/sea/CS_Mail.aspx
hope others will follow........
Sent message to the North American link.
Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone, ATT Tilt, it's an upgrade from my last smartphone/ppc (VOQ Professional Phone) which actually I still have and would still be using had the company not gone out of business, and well the phone doesn't have bluetooth, wifi or a camera either... if it did have those three things I've still be using it now really even if the company went under...
I don't get the Boycott though.. are people REALLY that unhappy with their phones? sure I see lots of complaints about things but I see that with EVERY phone on the market today, there IS NO perfect phone out there and never will be because someone will find something wrong no matter what...
dampeal said:
Boycott? Wow.. dunno but I'm very happy with my phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please do not go offtopic too much! I understand that there are A LOT of arguments why the Kaiser could be alright as a mobile device, but that is not the point here. The point is that any person has the right to boycott what ever company for any reason he/she finds worth it. I'm collecting that info here NOT DISCUSSING whether the device is worthy or not. Made up my mind already.
I admire the resolve of all that are willing to stand by thier principles. Personnaly, the choice of my next phone is limited to what my carrier has to offer as by buying from them, I get a large discount.
As my carrier is T-Mobile UK, that means my next upgrade will probably be a HTC device (maybe vario 4) for around 100gbp as opposed to a none HTC device from a store for around 400gbp.
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.
redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****. To the OP, I am not directing this towards you, but I don't think developers or people who joined this forum for learning purposes want to hear about emailing HTC with others decision to boycott.
Hmmm, maybe I should start a thread "Email HTC your reasons why you love their devices here!"
Get a clue and understand these threads are not needed but we appreciate your participation and do not take anything personal because its directed at many people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol... I agree...I will never say never... If HTC launched a TyTN II killer I'd probably get it..If will never buy a Kaiser again though if it helps
redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. Everyday someone posts something regarding video drivers, hating htc, or just writing stupid ****.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's strange. Because when I visit http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376, I see that there are four sections: one for discussion about accessories, one for discussion about software, one for discussion about ROMs, and this one for general discussion.
I notice that the developers tend to hang out in the software and ROMs sections, and that this general discussion forum is for general discussion.
Do you not have access to all four sections?
redbandana said:
When I first signed up for this forum I thought it was for developers and people who knew a lot about ppc's. I soon learned that this forum contains more friggin whiners than a daycare. ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.
My message ... Europe Customer.
Drivers for Kaiser? No?
Then thank You, I will find my next device somewhere else, where I will really get what I paid for.
rakdoll said:
Damn, don't know how to say this, remaining my relaxed tone.. but..
Don't you honestly think that this is the single BIGGEST community online using our beloved kaiser devices. Hopefully this does not come out of the blue for you, but there is something frikkin' wrong with the device we have bought.
There was 2 reasons for you why this kind of a threads easily pop out in GENERAL forums like this. Some people still want to get something in exchange for their money, not just crap.
Boycotting is useful, and it's the most powerful tool that single user can do against a company, which screwed him up without doing anything illeagal. This is where this forum could be helpful, here we have the people together. And if we complain together, maybe one day something gets done. Compare this to the situation between damn yankies and north korea for example. "Let's not give them what they want until they do what we want." Expect no nukes for the korea. You get it?
I feel sad that most of the people just accept the **** that big companies throw at you. I don't, A LOT of people won't accept that. Also, I'm completely sorry that I distracted you from your development work. Made you open this thread and whine about me whining.
And remember, this is nothing personal, there are a lot of you wankers out there whose fav hobby is to complain to n000bs and anything that.. that happens to annoy them at the time being. Then comes the bigger whiner, who whines about the whiner who whines about the whiner and that one is whining to whiner by the way.
You get the point? That there is a difference whining to other users and whining to wrong doers, who steal you money and feed you mouthful of poopi.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394543&highlight=stuck+bootloader
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228402&highlight=redbandana#post2228402
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2228280&highlight=redbandana#post2228280
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=394657&page=2
and then some.
However, I do bash n00bs when there are posts bashing HTC. Sorry to offend you in anyway.
^^ I understand your frustration and i share similar sentiments with you. A similar thread was posted yesterday(you can find it on page 2) and the day before yesterday on the ROM dev. forum. It gets annoying after a while, thats all.
redbandana said:
Well i certainly dont complain to n00bs unless there are threads similar to this. I should just ignore it for this point forward because we both have our opinions and neither is right nor wrong. Here is just a sample of what I do for n00bs. ... . .
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Alright, It seems really we just happen to have our personal opinions, which we are completely righteous. I must admit I totally see your initial point, how this forum is built over the dedication of people who simply love to learn new things. It is totally frustrating nowadays to see people just complaining, without doing a **** about the real issues. I hope I didn't do exactly that, by starting this thread. The real reason to that is just, I would love to scare the **** out of HTC, make them see that they will go down if they don't respect us the way they should.
I do recognize what you stand for, and I must say there must not be anything that I wouldn't share with you. The thing that started this, must be that I have always been a man who stands behind his words, at least most of the time, and I assume the same from others. That includes all the big companies, groups and individuals. It really makes me sad to see where this world is going just because the only thing that matters to people is money. Huge corporations, sucking all the money they can, that's the end of people trying to provide just themselves.. no.. they want all that they can get. In the end, the one who pays the costs is dudes like us.
I honestly also didn't mean to offend anyone, and if it seemed so, I truly apologize. So in the end of the day, it seems like we are alone, with our Kaisers, trying to get the best out of it. So let's just keep on tuning it, until we are happy. That seems to be the initial purpose of this whole place's existence.
really sorry for my funny use of english, you native speakers must be laughing your asses off. But me not native, me from land of the barb-backed fishes. :|
I'm sure this awesome online community only makes up about less then half (if even) of tilt/kaiser/etc owners. There are many people that own this phone because they need it and never go online to mod it. Out of that assumed half I would say a 10th read what is posted or understand a single thing about this phone. That leaves a large number of people who think their phone is "crap" because you tell them it is. Yes I would like to see the phone be faster but I don't think it's crap nor do I think HTC has screwed me over. I don't seem to remember any stats that they released in regards to video or any other performance. Do you? Where are their benchmarks they advertised that weren't acheived by our lovely devices? If you can show them to me then I, and all of my friends will sign your wish list, but until I see them I will just think that everyone is butt hurt over an assumed performance loss.
HTC in my opinion has done something about this. Is it good enough to truely unlock the power of the Kaiser? No, but was it something rather then nothing? Do any of you know the cost of the video driver per unit? No, then how can people claim they paid for something they didn't get. How do you know it wouldn't have been another $50 that would have been tagged on. From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.
ChumleyEX said:
From what was advertised I will say I got 100% of what this phone was supposed to do.
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This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
If I know it sooner I'd rather choose MWG, or iULTIMATE.. FOR SURE
I don't really care about support after market
But this laggy thing gives me s*it..... the fact that THIS THING DOESN'T have this BEFORE MARKET and they are HIDING THIS FACT!!!!
No multimedia experience only headache if you used it almost every time WITH touch screen... if... u know what I mean... do you??? or u just using it for modem only????
...bump
rajmagi said:
This is strange opinion ..
because: when I bought the phone, I was thinkin buying the BEST phone in the market. Multimedia experience with keyboard.... Check the price and compare it to other older models if you know what I mean!
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+1 Chumley I also go alot on the support forums for the iPhone, because my wife has an iPhone. If you were new to the iPhone you would think that it was the biggest piece of crap around. Thats all that is there is whining and complaining about how it doesn't work, Apple sold us a piece of crap . Here is a petition, let's put Apple out of business. As with all other forums a very vocal MINORITY of people who for whatever reason are having trouble with there phones.
Don't even get me started with the " Check the price, I thought I was getting the best " consumer strategy. I am just glad you don't buy my groceries.
I love my phone ,it does everything they told me it would do.It makes phone
calls, it schedules, MS Office is great, web access is great, I have push email, My gps works great etc... etc.....etc. Do I care that it doesn't have a Nikon D40 inside, do I care that I can't play WoW on it , do I care that I can't watch you tube all day at 3G on a battery charge? No ! This isn't what they promised me and this isn't what I bought my phone for.
Bottom line is, there are a million people out there that are perfectly satisfied with their HTC product. But we never hear from them. They are the silent majority. We here have to put up with thread after thread after thread because the vocal minority thinks we care that they bought a phone they don't like
STOP *****ing about Video Drivers. Who care. The phone is fine. You are forgetting that it's a PHONE! Be glad they added alot of extra stuff you can't find in a majority of phones. I have never had a problem watching videos and movies on my phone. Seriously.. geez
WDF is up with retarded people moving on from small nokia's to the fuze and other ppc phones? They have no idea what they're doing! I mean come the fk on! One guy doesn't know how to transfer ringtones from his storage card to his /windows folder! I was just on the aee tee n tee forums. I mean FFS! Don't buy something you are not capable of handing! Is the world full of that many retarded/stupid people? They buy something that they are not fully capable of understand/using and then they complain about how bad it is. People are such idiots..
LOL! I've been thinking the same thing. I always thought I had the best of the best, which included all the extras I've got on it. But, when I see a f'n 12 year old girl T-X-T'n her mutha f***'n BFF on her brand new Touch Pro, I say WTF!!!!
I will make a general statement here....
People should be tested and then licensed before they are allowed to breed.
I HATE seeing people with expensive electronics... THAT THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE!
Whether it be a Diamond, or even a Touch, it just isn't right. Especially like MacBooks, MacBook Pros, Vaios... ugh. "How do I install an app???" GAH!
an old wize man once said, "Never Believe a noob when he says "it didnt work !" "
derekwilkinson said:
I HATE seeing people with expensive electronics... THAT THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE!
Whether it be a Diamond, or even a Touch, it just isn't right. Especially like MacBooks, MacBook Pros, Vaios... ugh. "How do I install an app???" GAH!
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Completly agree mate!!
Kraize said:
WDF is up with retarded people moving on from small nokia's to the fuze and other ppc phones? They have no idea what they're doing! I mean come the fk on! One guy doesn't know how to transfer ringtones from his storage card to his /windows folder! I was just on the aee tee n tee forums. I mean FFS! Don't buy something you are not capable of handing! Is the world full of that many retarded/stupid people? They buy something that they are not fully capable of understand/using and then they complain about how bad it is. People are such idiots..
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I don't agree with you and think that really you are just fed up with the noobs asking (in our opinion) questions that have rather simple answers just because they didn't take the time to search for the answer themselves. We have all been NOOBS at one time and had to figure out how to use our devices ourselves one way or the other. I myself only moved to a WM device a year ago (Previously had a Nokia 6620). The biggest difference was that I did tons of reading, research and soon discovered that there was so much more my device could do and learned how to customize by device. The point is, Everyone who gets a new device has to learn how to use it somehow. We just have to have some patience and try to help them learn how to use these forums so that they can teach themselves. It doesn't serve any purpose to be rude and call all these new WM device owners "retards" "Stupid" "Idiots", or to assume that they don't know how to handle these devices. They are still learning as we all did at one point.
Really if you are that annoyed with them then don't help them out. Just ignore the posts. Starting a thread like this doesn't serve to help this community. Isn't the purpose of this community suppose to be to help each other out though cooperation, sharing what we know about out devices with others, so that they can later help out other noobs themselves. It kind of defeats the purpose of this forum to constantly flame the noobs whenever they have a question and really if we don't try to help them by pointing them in the right direction, we are not being productive members of this community ourselves.
I'm not a programmer and will never pretend to be one or even understand anything about programming, so I can't contribute to this community that way; however, I can still contribute by helping other people understand the basics of their devices, solve / work around some of the quirks of their devices. You never know who you might be helping - one of these noobs my be a great programmer who after learning how to use their device and work around the devices short-commings, figure out how to improve on things themselves and share with the rest of us or write a really cool new app to share with the rest of us.
if you check out point # 8 and #9 by Administrator Peter Poelman here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=221545
this basically says it all.
8. Stay cool
Think of this as a on-line temple. A sacred place, dedicated to collaboration, learning and collective wisdom. Don't shout and try not to get angry. Maybe the world should adhere more to the basic filosofy of Internet protocol design: "Be strict about what you send, and liberal about what you receive". This forum has people from all countries, cultures and levels of mental maturity. This means that no matter what you're like, you'll have to adjust to people that are most definitely not like you. But on the other hand, try to be gentle with people, even in the event they're not gentle with you. It will gain you many reputation points if you help to keep the peace.
9. Help others if you can
OK, you can post that message now. If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping eachother, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
Take Care
Rod
@Rod.
No. Not really. I'm cool. I know we were all noobs at one time or the other, but I myself do not remember asking questions such as those. It could be some are naturally talented in technology. But I'm just saying, don't buy things that you don't know about. I tend to know things inside out before I even buy it.
i think what kraize is saying is bull at the end of the day we slag off noobs because they dont kno how to use the devices and wish they knew how to but because no one will tell them how theyll never become wiser if this goes on then the next generation of ppc user will be screwed because they been treat with contempt and told they shouldnt use these devices these people could be the next rom and software developers if they have the passion and apply them selves
so really they are not idiots theyve just been let down by a bunch of eletists who used to love teaching new things, but have lost the passion due to snootines or whatever
Kraize said:
@Rod.
No. Not really. I'm cool. I know we were all noobs at one time or the other, but I myself do not remember asking questions such as those. It could be some are naturally talented in technology. But I'm just saying, don't buy things that you don't know about. I tend to know things inside out before I even buy it.
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Hi Kraize. I fully agree with you that it is best to learn as much about a device before you buy it. Everyone should do this for anything they buy - Car, TV, Stereo, Computer, etc... I don't buy anyting until I have done some thorough research on the item - read reviews etc... to make sure it is a good device. I admit that I still didn't know much about WM devices when I purchased mine, only read reviews and certain web sites and asked lots of questions at the store where I purchased it. (but even the Rogers store clerks can't tell you about the full potential of these devices**They just don't know the devices they sell that well). I have to say though that if it wasn't for this forum, I wouldn't have learned as much about my device as I had. Keep in mind, I didn't start any NOOB threads asking silly questions. I joined in March 2008, but had been visiting this site since December 2007 after I purchased my device and learned as much as I could just searching, reading, searching more, reading and reading and reading and experimenting. I origianally only joined this community so that I could download some of the cool apps that have been developped by the other members here, but then found out that I can actually help others with what I had learned. To this date, I still have not started a single thread asking a question. I only PM'd one individual with one NOOB type question (asking about the difference between the touch Elf and touch Vogue ROM's ) as I could not find this information in my searches. (thanks to TheChampJT for answering this for me).
With this said - I won't say for sure that I won't ever feel the need to start a new thread asking a question, and I hope that if the time comes, people are understanding and either offer constructive answers or point me in the right direction.
What I would undertand ranting about, would be ranting about the ones who join this community and don't even try to find the answers for themselves or they do one search and don't dig deep enough to find their answers. Most answers are already out there but they just don't want to bother. I have spent many hours searching and finding my own answers, so I know it is possible and to see others not even try really burns me. I understand why they have questions, I had them myself, but for goodness sakes, if you have a new device and don't understand how to use it to it's full potential, then you have to do some reading and learn how to use it. Don't just immediately expect others to give you step by step instructions on what to do. Even if someone did do this, you wouldn't even understand how to use the device still since you didn't do it yourself.
It's all part of the adventure - learning how to maximize your device and understanding it and everyone deserves a chance to have this. Those who want an immediatlely easy to use and set up device - should get an IPhone
@ Everyone.
I'm trying to say here that I'm not dissing those who want to learn about the devices. I'm dissing those who are lazy and non-appreciative about it. Like a lot of other people, I've been a lurker for this site for a very long time. A couple years in fact. But those people that just ask things and wonder things without even reading the manual or typing it up on google dissappoint me. Btw. I've never really said anything about this site. I meant like on the AT&T forums. Too many people don't know a thing. I feel that CS and reps in stores feel the same way when retards come in asking how to turn on the phone (Beleive me, it has happened. In front me my eyes when I was buying the fuze).
hotrod pming is fine i have asked question by opening thread got flamed and understood but at the same time i was overjoyed with the few users who helped these peole dont need flaming they need teaching and its our right as winmo users to help them
I have a dream that one day this communtiy will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all mobiles are created equal."
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former mokia owners and the sons of former motorola owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream that my three little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the OS on there mobiles or there ability to flash a rom but by being able to ask a question this wonderful of all sites and not get flames
I have a dream that one day, down in XDA, with its vicious Senior members, with its policy having its lips dripping with the words of "NOOB" and "READ THE WIKI" in such a nasty way. that this will all end and we can teach so they to can teach the ways on winmo
Or when you check the comments on freewarepocketpc before downloading and see tons of idiots asking for installation instructions. On the other hand WM phones are being marketed more and more as entertainment devices. It's not a f'n iPhone!
But a cab file? Google dammit! It's so damn simple!
Here's my rant (not quite sure if it's off topic, but it's ranting about stupid people):
Context: Our router failed. After a week of saying I was wrong and trying every random solution from the internet, my father finally admitted (claimed he knew it all along) that the router was broken and got us a new 110$ b/g/n router. We are 3 in the house and we only surf the web, no BitTorrent or anything fancy.
-Your father got a new router and it's working perfectly
-Nice!
-It's an N router
-But our computers don't support n, what's the point? There are 40$ routers that do the job
-Ours do, it's going to be way faster.
-Actually, I doubt so. Our router is already faster than the internet connection itself, there's a bottleneck.
-Yes but it's an n router, it's faster
-No, it can't be faster, we already topped the possible speed with our previous router. It's not like we were a dozen using the same connection to share file accross a football field. Another D-Link 524 would have done the job.
-You don't understand, it's faster, it's the new technology.
*goes back to work*
This thread is not going any where.. It's going to cause some flaming and such
ather90 said:
an old wize man once said, "Never Believe a noob when he says "it didnt work !" "
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this is probably one of my favorite quotes if ever read
you just have to look at the diamond threads
how many " phone bricked" threads are started
i will always try to help
but its suprised me how many are try to do thing that they haven't a clue about what they are "trying" to do
....or won't even take 5 mins to read a 1st post on a tread telling them what to do.
Mmmmm Its a shame, maybe a MOD wanna be here
I think that here are many **** people that dont read his own post... this Thread is embarrasing and ****s up all the forum... SENIORS and... saying this kind of things... its a real shame fellows, that needs to read again the threads many people pm me by msn real lost mens telling me men! I brick my phone... and i just help them... thats all!
Expensive, cheaps, guys, old men, are the same just need to have experience but y'all screw up that hope.
GOD you are so Tough and I think the champ must be some more quite.
+ Que PPC said:
I think that here are many **** people that dont read his own post... this Thread is embarrasing and ****s up all the forum... SENIORS and... saying this kind of things... its a real shame fellows, that needs to read again the threads many people pm me by msn real lost mens telling me men! I brick my phone... and i just help them... thats all!
Expensive, cheaps, guys, old men, are the same just need to have experience but y'all screw up that hope.
GOD you are so Tough and I think the champ must be some more quite.
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Hmmmmmm........
I keep reading this line over,
+ Que PPC said:
I think the champ must be some more quite.
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and over,
+ Que PPC said:
I think the champ must be some more quite.
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and over again!
Maybe I'm the only lost one, but WTF are you saying, and further more, about me?
Easy men easy...
WTF what? I saw your post numbers... your star (ten EUR donate) your Avatar and I saw a Guy that likes to help people... but nop he is tire about helping idiots.... but.... Does it makes any sense? is not my problem man!... just be a little more relax... with that tongue men! be cool... flamming threads arent welcome anywhere, well in www.apestan.com you can post your fury about XDA n00bs.
Thats all.
+ Que PPC said:
WTF what? I saw your post numbers... your star (ten EUR donate) your Avatar and I saw a Guy that likes to help people... but nop he is tire about helping idiots.... but.... Does it makes any sense? is not my problem man!... just be a little more relax... with that tongue men! be cool... flamming threads arent welcome anywhere, well in www.apestan.com you can post your fury about XDA n00bs.
Thats all.
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I understood your post, but am confused at the take on me referring to a REAL LIFE person. I think you should read my post again. No mention of xda users in it, in fact I've found myself to be helpful here, and hope there are some that would say the same.
Today, when I went to Sakajati's website to check the release of his new WM6.5 ROM, I was totally depressed and completely lost the mood to flash this brand new ROM, after I read this brief intro:
sakajati
May 4th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Sorry guys for being away, I’ve been under stress due to financial problem. The business is getting worse and worse, I’m afraid I won’t be able to support this website anymore and may also have to sell my device (God I hope this won’t happend). To all hyperdragon users, please consider to support/donate, it may help me so I don’t have to sell this crapy device. Thanks in advance! Enjoy this new rom and let me know for any bugs you found!
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It was exactly the same feeling when yesterday I passed by Mirko Schenk's website and read this:
I aten't ded (12/05/2008, 10:00 PM)
Yeah, I know, I'm a bit slow with updates recently. Somehow, when I wasn't missing free time, all too often I was missing motivation (no, that's not begging for donations) to struggly with the pitfalls of programming after I struggled with them in my job before. And this even though there's currently no girl friend that threadens me when I'd spend more time on my PC than with her. (But admitted, she'd probably wouldn't need to threaden me... )
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Sakajati, a famouse ROM cooker for Kaiser, his Hyperdragon ROM thread in this forum has received 11,178 repplies and 1,574,596 views up to now. Yes, not mistaken, it's more than 1.5 milllion views. Is he brilliant? The numbers speak for themselves.
Mirko Schenk, the name may not much known to public. But if I talk about Mort, every chefs here knows who he is. One of his small programs named 'Mortscript' is now cooked in many of the custom ROMs on this site. Is he brilliant? You can ask every chef here, I guess you'll get the same answer:'Yes, he is VERY brillant.'
These two guys are only examples of many of the brilliant stars here. They all have these two same characters as I know: First, their softwares are all FREE. I.e, they supply free service to pubic without asking any material support from users. Second, I am regret to say, they are all VERY POOR now.
Well, I believe, that the initial puppose of their developing these wares are not for money. I also believe that they would like to continue this cause even if they can not receive one single coin from it, even if they maintain a poor living condition for his own life, they just enjoy it.
On the other hand, have to say this: It is ULTIMATE FORTUNE for a man, that in his life he can find something he likes, he is good at, he did it, and finally he fighted to clime to top of the line. BUT, it is an ULTIMATE UNFORTUNE for him that after he did this, he only found his life is 'worsen and worsen'.
Yes a man's value is not only reallize his own joy, he also has to be responsible for his beloves, his family, his girlfiend, or even his pet. This is the reason they may decide to drop this loved cause and find something else to do. And finally they may be driven out from this society.
Now the question comes: Can we do something to rescue them out of this situation?
Yes, we can donate to their PayPal account.
BUT, to donate to a paypal account is not always convienient for everybody that want to help them.
Actually, there are other much better ways, but the forum rules here does not support it. Like this: Why not allow them to put a simple advertisement on their signature?
Like this one (I found in this thread):
iPhone ... its a maxipad without wings!
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So that viewers can support them by a simple click of their mouse, which will bring a small money for them? Say in Sakajati's case, he has 1.5 million viewers, onlyif 10% of viewers would make a click on the ad, and only if each click can just bring $0.1 for them. That will collect to an amount of $15,000. Which will greatly enhance their life, at lest let them keep the 'crapy device'.
Don't tell me this is impossible for this forum. We have so many super-smart brains here. Actually can set some rules or systems to avoid any 'side effects' of it, like rules on the size, layout, postion, etc of the ad. Who can use it, who can not etc.
Yes, this great forum place should become a worm home for all telents in this line.
MODs: Can you discuss on this issue?
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
Chainfire said:
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
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Thank for your attention on tjis issue. There must be a solution for that, at least not 'completely impossible.
But the circut of money in 'ads' industry. Is just like 'everybody follow the rules here'.
Since the activities concerning 'advertising' may become a key factor in judgement of this issue. Here I add some more info. There are books about 'advertisement', or lots of internet materials available, but probably not everyone has time to read it. Let me just tell what is advertisement in this simple way:
The major target of ads is not to reach people who want the product, because people wants it already knows it. It is targeted to those people who doesn't want it, or even doesn't know it. Advertisement will let them know the product, and MAKE (sorry I use this word) them reallize that they want it.
This is why ads sponsors would be glad to pay even for a mouse click and a slight glance at what they are advertising. At least this make the clicker have a short memery about their brand name, or their product idea.
After read this, you may feel somehow uncomfortble about 'ads'. But sorry, this is just the prevailing commercial activity.
Please Post Your Comments on This Issue!
Anybody pass by here and reading this, if you have some opinion, comments, or different idea about this issue, please post here.
Maybe you are freeware developer, or commercial software developer, or common user, or moderator, it doesn't matter. What I'm thinking about is not trying to persuade the forum board to issue a new advertising policy, really need to be concerned is how to help those GREAT freeware developers OUT. Avertisement is just the best way that I can figure out by myself. But maybe you guys have better idea about this issue.
Here appeal to everybody:
If you are using a freeware, and find it's really helpful, or may bring additional conveineince and joy to your life. Please think about the life of the developer of the freeware. And first please consider a DONATION to them, if you can not, please think about what else you can do.
Everybody please leave your voice here, maybe we can work out a way together!
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
Chainfire said:
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
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Certainly yours will be a nice place with lots of chef want to take a look. I went there and found some projects not known to me in the past. Before I only know WMWifiRouter's from you, later WMLongLife, but that's already enough to call you a Master. Now you're master++.
Also noted that you already sent donation confirmation code on Sakajati's site.
You built a nice blog.
You know what, honestly, I'm a huge fan of DINIKs work, it's beautiful. Hate me if you want, but he doesn't deserve the **** some people have put him through. If you don't like his work, simply shut the F*CK up and don't download it OR use a ROM that has it included...
Is it that hard to follow rules? Honestly... He asked people not to distribute his work without permission, yet I see it happening daily...
Yeah, I have "manipulated" his work, but only to fulfill requests IN HIS OFFICIAL HD2 ICON THREAD, saving him time.
Am I re-distributing his work without his permission? No, I assisted someone in need.
Some people became belligerent, harassing his work because it came with a ROM.... my answer to their stupidity, FLASH A NEW ROM FFS.... If you don't want DINIKs work on your Device, don't flash a ROM with it included. You're only making yourself look dumber.
Remember, most Chefs make ROMs to THEIR personal liking for their own devices, not just to please you. If I Cooked up a ROM and it had DINIKs work {with permission} in it, and someone asked me to get rid of it, I'd immediately direct that user back to the Device ROM fora, and tell them to choose another ROM. Simple as that.
Does DINIK support my creating of this thread? Honestly, probably not... but thanks to these people who consistently blab on about how bad his work is, and how "they can make it too", he has announced that his work will now be for his ROM only... which means HD2 only.
I have no plans to update my Device to a non-hardware keyboard device, so thanks a*sholes... now I, and MANY MANY others, no-longer get to enjoy the work of DINIK.
Do I care if you can make the Anastasia Icons as good as DINIK can? No, I don't. The IDEA behind the set is what makes it beautiful and worthwhile, and DINIK took the time out of HIS day to make ALL of the icons... I don't see you doing this.. I just see you wasting my precious bandwidth and oxygen.
Feel free to comment, BUT if you're going to RANT against me this thread, why don't you just PM an Admin and request for your account to be banned and deleted... it'll save us all a bunch of eye-sores and the chance of our IQs being lowered...
[I felt this thread was necessary to bring people back to reality. Some people are too asinine to simply respect someones work, and time put into the work. I feel the day is coming where Chefs no longer get thanked, nor receive donations... and the day that happens my friends is the day that we all become part of Apples Auschwitz Posse of Fanbois.]
With you on this one mate, too many people are disprespectful to people who spend their own time making other peoples lives/devices better.
we all suffer because of their stupidity, the worst bit is, folk who take what is not theirs and use as they wish without permission will likely not give a damn about it and they will simply move on to copy someone elses work
I 2nd and 3rd that one mate.....
The guys/girls on here that devote their time to making some amazing programs to make our devices a whole lot better than we could possibly imagine, and you get arseholes gobbing off...
I truely respect everyone of the developers and can only say...
IF SOMEONE DOESNT LIKE A CERTAIN PROGRAM/SOFTWARE.......DONT BLOODY DOWNLOAD IT....SIMPLE....
Respect to DINIK and ALL the developers on this site...!!!!
Viva la XDA.....
i cosign this post
Thx Agent Zach and others...i know 90% users here are happy with me and what im doing...its just that this 5-10 people...became so loud and so annoying...that its no more fun to be here and post...it all began with one user who disliked me...and now it started to grow...i dont know what they thinking...they all using my work...and attack me...that one who doing it for them? maybe they should think again about it...to attack an author is not a good idea itself...but to attack an author that you like (use his works) is def an idea of an idiot.
they attacked me and my works...and suffered now...cause i not doing anymore cabs and do only rom exclusive updates...now they started attacking my rom and to rip files out of it (because after the first attack they get no more cabs)...the stupidity have no end...with all that they gonna loose all...i just quit posting here.
I understand your choice 100%.
This thread was intended to show support to your work, as you can already see by the responses. But it was also intended to bring these ignorant folks out of their shell. Maybe they'll learn that people won't kneel at their feet and fulfill their demands.
All it takes is one person to screw something up, and it all rolls downhill from there... it's the vicious circle of idiocracy.
I just hope that one day, something or someone can help change your mind. I understand your thoughts on the Exclusivity of the new Anastasia for your ROM, but it does, in-fact, suck for the rest of us.
I love your work, simple & through. Whatever decisions you make, my friend, I support.
UPDATE::
One of the rules these people should take notice of:
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
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Read the rules HERE!
Mod Input
Just a gentle reminder that this thread is on watch to ensure that all members post within the forum rules...http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=534
If you see a post that is a problem please use the Report Button function to flag it up so we can take the appropriate action.
Many thanks
WB
Thus I linked to the Rules.
Trust me, I won't hesitate to Report.
Some people may even Report my first post in this thread, as the people it's directed towards may become upset with themselves, and then ME for pointing out their mistakes.
I'm not familiar with dinik, his work, or any of you guys that know him but based on what I've read here in the off topic section in the last couple days...
I'm nebenezer, and I approve this message.
Totally agreed with this thread! I don't know way, almost everyone have some of Dinnik's work; and the only thing some people do is dispute! He have changed for us the hole layout from our device, what I'm thankful fore and for some reason or a other there are always people's who don't respect him!!
Ok I must be honest, in the beginning I missed something ore like to see more of his stuff on my device!! So I have simply contact him to asked his authorization to used his basic work to create my'n, and I'm not he only one who have did that!! From the first time I have contact him, till know I have a new friend!! I don't know if it is me ore what!! But in each case my parents have learn me to asked and not to steal!!
It is a golden rules in life in brings you a great part father!
As I mentioned earlier Dinnik, you have more friends here than enemies!
kurt-willems said:
As I mentioned earlier Dinnik, you have more friends here than enemies!
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Exactly.
But I admit, being a Photoshop Artist myself, the smallest bit of criticism to my work does lower my self esteem and respect toward "the receivers" of my work, no matter how many positive comments I get.
Maybe it's just a conflict within ones' self, and not necessarily a hatred for the critics...
Maybe my metaphoric "Ego" is much more vulnerable than I thought... maybe every artists Ego is..
nebenezer said:
I'm not familiar with dinik, his work, or any of you guys that know him but based on what I've read here in the off topic section in the last couple days...
I'm nebenezer, and I approve this message.
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Nice Thread!!!
Am a big fan of your work dinik..
A big thumbs up mate Keep up the good work
Welcome to the world dinik..It is something that you have got to get used to it. I know this from my experience..
DINIK......
Pse do not stop posting because of a few narrow minded idiots..!!! Your stuff if loved by thousands of people on this amazing site.. Keep up the good work fella...