Hello,
I have been really interested in buying this phone for quite a while now. But with it being Triband and not supporting any 3G in the US (which I only really use for internet sharing), I am still wondering if I should spend the money and get this phone or another one. My main question is, even without 3G support, I should still be able to get Voice and EDGE coverage correct? I currently have a Cavalier (S630) which I can use for Internet Sharing only if need be. I still cant see why its not Quadband =( and oh yes, I am on AT&T.
Any help on this topic would be great. Thanks =)
Man why waste 600+ dollars for half a phone. you have waited this long just wait for the us version. Trust me. You have no idea how slow edge is. I used to live in 3G/HSPDA terriroty and now i dont. I havent used my kaiser for web surfing in a while becasue its painfully slow. Save the dough
myv6mustang said:
Man why waste 600+ dollars for half a phone. you have waited this long just wait for the us version. Trust me. You have no idea how slow edge is. I used to live in 3G/HSPDA terriroty and now i dont. I havent used my kaiser for web surfing in a while becasue its painfully slow. Save the dough
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know how slow EDGE is, it sucks lol. The thing is I know how HTC likes to delay their phones all the time, and I really haven't seen a solid release for the US. I have seen Q2, but since they delay their phones so much you can never tell.
Edge won't work in part's of America either. The Diamond that is out currently is tri-band GSM and doesn't have the 850 mhz which is what at least part of America works on. It's possible, depending on where you live, that even the edge won't work for you.
You really need to wait for the American version to come out.
See this link for the bands.
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_touch_diamond-2368.php
alaiwy said:
Edge won't work in part's of America either. The Diamond that is out currently is tri-band GSM and doesn't have the 850 mhz which is what at least part of America works on. It's possible, depending on where you live, that even the edge won't work for you.
You really need to wait for the American version to come out.
See this link for the bands.
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_touch_diamond-2368.php
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Click to collapse
The specs on this site state that is has 850mhz band which is not correct. According to the detailed specs thread on the Diamond fourm it says the phone has a GSM band 1900. I went to www.gsmworld.com to look at the network for AT&T (1900mhz band only) and it covers the major cities and surrounding areas (almost exact same coverage map as 850mhz band) unless your in the friggin mountains.
So I'm talking to one of the prominent Cell Phone Hackers / Repair guys in the city. Apparantly, he ripped open a diamond and it had the same chipset as the 850 diamond will have in it. He is saying that a ROM Update could unlock that frequency.
I debated with him stating that the chipset may be the same but there is no 850 antenna on it. He disagrees.
Any thoughts on this?
WorldIRC said:
So I'm talking to one of the prominent Cell Phone Hackers / Repair guys in the city. Apparantly, he ripped open a diamond and it had the same chipset as the 850 diamond will have in it. He is saying that a ROM Update could unlock that frequency.
I debated with him stating that the chipset may be the same but there is no 850 antenna on it. He disagrees.
Any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think he might be right since the preproduction had the band, though no one did ever test a preproduction to see if the band actually worked.
Pawel062 said:
i think he might be right since the preproduction had the band, though no one did ever test a preproduction to see if the band actually worked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Engadget tested it, it didnt work.
A 900Mhz antenna would still work on the 850 band, it just woundn't be optimal, and you would end up with lots of harmonics. SNR would be lower, and the amplifier would end up at full strength most of the time, increasing the SAR.
Because of that they remove the calibration settings of the 850 band from the radio. Even if you changed the flag to enable the band (easier) you would need to somehow recreate all the calibration data (much harder).
Calibration data is specific to each device, so a flash from the US diamond rom (when/if its available) wouldn't be enough.
Its possible you could clone the calibration data from a US version of the diamond, but by then whats the point, just get a US version instead of frying your brain
someone1234 said:
Its possible you could clone the calibration data from a US version of the diamond, but by then whats the point, just get a US version instead of frying your brain
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess some people just like their brain well done
Maybe it's for the situations when people try to get a device for cheap, or 2 weeks before everyone gets it, but then they realize that it won't work in their country.. as it should
Is there a working ROM (home brewed or otherwise) that will make the 3G in HTC Diamond work in the US with a carrier like ATT?
I would like to buy a phone and I am not sure if this is possible. I read somewhere that the FCC recently approved 3G version of the model - but would like to know for sure.
Thanks,
Karter
No, there is no ROM. The European Diamonds don't have the hardware necessary for getting anything but 900/2100mhz 3G. Try searching before you ask questions that have been answered 5 times over.
Black93300ZX said:
No, there is no ROM. The European Diamonds don't have the hardware necessary for getting anything but 900/2100mhz 3G. Try searching before you ask questions that have been answered 5 times over.
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Click to collapse
Ok now I'm really confused ! I thought the fact (or at least I thought it was) that the "European" Diamonds were ROM upgradable to access US 3G was the whole basis for those of us that are hoping for the Touch Pro to eventually be the same way ??????????????
Black93300ZX said:
No, there is no ROM. The European Diamonds don't have the hardware necessary for getting anything but 900/2100mhz 3G. Try searching before you ask questions that have been answered 5 times over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry hit the submit button twice
we ALL hope so, but it looks like is NOT happening!
lol this is just funny now...
frozenwaffles said:
lol this is just funny now...
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Click to collapse
Sorry guys - I must have misunderstood some of the posts and I haven't been following the Diamond area closely enough
But I sure am glad I could provide you some entertainment ... but even more so, I sure hope that the when the dust settles the laugh will be on you ???
hopefully
yes yes the manufacturers want to give out all those free features..i forgot how the commercial world works...
Black93300ZX said:
No, there is no ROM. The European Diamonds don't have the hardware necessary for getting anything but 900/2100mhz 3G. Try searching before you ask questions that have been answered 5 times over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is not entirely true. The hardware is exactly the same.
Please don't perpetuate this false rumor - DIAM 100 is not 850mz 3G capable
Based on the fact that HTC submitted a different model number than DIAM 100, the DIAM110
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...mFrame=N&application_id=417017&fcc_id='NM8DM')
to the FCC, it seems pretty clear that the hardware between the European version and the US version are in fact different. In addition, no one has been ale to get 850mhz 3G working on any existing (i.e., DIAM100) phone. If you can show evidence otherwise, I'm sure people would be interested. Otherwise, I think you're spreading a false rumor created out of wishful thinking and HTC's past behavior of not enabling GPS on the Trinity.
landshark said:
Based on the fact that HTC submitted a different model number than DIAM 100, the DIAM110
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...mFrame=N&application_id=417017&fcc_id='NM8DM')
to the FCC, it seems pretty clear that the hardware between the European version and the US version are in fact different. In addition, no one has been ale to get 850mhz 3G working on any existing (i.e., DIAM100) phone. If you can show evidence otherwise, I'm sure people would be interested. Otherwise, I think you're spreading a false rumor created out of wishful thinking and HTC's past behavior of not enabling GPS on the Trinity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed there is no evidence to prove the DIAM100 can work on US 3G. But, i dont think its hardware related well i just keep my hope that something can make mine work. Dont want to sell it out!
lets speculate a little....
1) Mobile phone chipsets ARE multiband by definition. Even if it says that it is only 1900MHz, its chipset suports a range of frequencies (something like 1850 to 1990). Why? because it has to support lots of call in a single cell. The call are spread over hundreds of channels (frequencies) and across time-slots in a code division scheme.
And because it uses a code division scheme for multiple simultaneos calls, then all these frequencies are used at the same time.
So, operating frequency is programmable.
2) The Antenna has also to support multiple frequencies.
3) I think the only reason a chipset has to not support a frequency is the processor speedy. But 7201A specs says it suports 2.1GHz as well as 850GHz UMTS.
So, the reason a mobile phone has to be dual band and not quadband has to be only market related and not technical.
Is this correct?
or only bull****?
If this is correct, then Diamod Hardware HAS to be UMTS Quadband.
And, to provide HTC a commercial advantage when negotiating with carriers (that is, HTC locks european models to not work in USA --- so that, to use 3G in USA one needs to by the device from the local carrier --- this leads to better contracts with the carrier).
If Diamond hardware is quadband where is the lock?
From all the reseaches we are almost sure it is not in the main storage memory (Radio or ROM).
It can be hardware locked....then the only way to unlock will be hacking the hardware wich is not viable for almost all of us (if it is not impossible).
But (trying thinking as HTC engineers), how about lock it (outside the memory --- because users are flashing hacked Radios and ROMs) but still in a programable way? (I think like sim-lock is done this way in many devices). Because doing this way I don´t have to create diferent production pipelines and different projects.
By programmable I mean a process that is done after the phone (or the main board) is manufactured.
If all of this is true (and I think it is not ) than the question is: is this final process reversible? (like simlock)?
If yes then how?
Uau.....I am impressed on the amount of **** I can write sometimes.
Hello,
As you can guess, I'm new to Blackstone. I have what I hope to be a simple question. Is the fact that HTC Touch HD doesn't support US 3G a hardware limitation or a software limitation.
Reason for asking:
When a US carrier gets off their lazy a** and picks up this awesome device, will there be a ROM update to enable US 3G?
I really want this device and the only thing keeping me from getting it is the 3G limitation, but I can live with it if one day (less than a year) there is a ROM update to enable US 3G. But if it is a hardware limitation then I'm out of luck.
Thanks,
Roger
hello,
just as new as you...got mine but knew it wouldnt work on us3g becoz us and europe have diferent types of network band for the 3g that why it wont here... hd was made for conveniently europe networks bands
Hardware or Software
I was aware of the limitation right off hand but do you know if its a hardware or software limitation?
AS IN:
Difference in protocols
OR
Different Chip All Together
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=433548
orb3000 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=433548
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Click to collapse
I do have to ask, due to this happening to me as well, when asking about status or news on 3G in the US for the HTC Touch HD everyone refers back to the link above for the "HTC to USA: No 3G..." message-thread.
I dont see the issue with asking the US 3G status question and getting a reply, rather than wading through 15 pages of postings in a huge thread. Discussion of everything from EDGE speeds, to speed-tests, performance in different areas, etc... but the question posed here is quite specific. Personally I've tried many searches and just looking to find status and how, if at all, I can help. Can we at least start a new thread to this end?
* Can anyone share a simple software/hardware issue for UD 3G with the Touch HD?
* How can [new people] people get involved to look into this kind of an issue?
Thanks for listening and any information...
D
kzw2zx said:
I do have to ask, due to this happening to me as well, when asking about status or news on 3G in the US for the HTC Touch HD everyone refers back to the link above for the "HTC to USA: No 3G..." message-thread.
I dont see the issue with asking the US 3G status question and getting a reply, rather than wading through 15 pages of postings in a huge thread. Discussion of everything from EDGE speeds, to speed-tests, performance in different areas, etc... but the question posed here is quite specific. Personally I've tried many searches and just looking to find status and how, if at all, I can help. Can we at least start a new thread to this end?
* Can anyone share a simple software/hardware issue for UD 3G with the Touch HD?
* How can [new people] people get involved to look into this kind of an issue?
Thanks for listening and any information...
D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think maybe people are somewhat brusque when answering this question because it has been asked so often with respect to other devices. That being said, I do not think anyone knows whether the issue with the HD is hardware or software related (please correct me if I am wrong). I know that some members have been working on making US 3G bands work for the non-AT&T Touch Pro (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2565338&postcount=2), so you may want to ask those guys how to get involved in starting up a similar project with the HD.
I would like to say, though, that I have been simply amazed at how well Edge has been performing on the HD. It is faster for mobile browsing than my US 3G Diamond, Touch Cruise, Tilt, and my wife's iPhone 3G with the 3G/H showing and all bars up. So if you are putting off a decision to get the phone based on mobile browsing speed, in my experience (and it is just that, my experience), I have not missed 3G at all.
I note that that I have been using the HD in New York City with AT&T, which means notoriously crappy service no matter what the technology the phone is capable of, and, of course, tethering, etc. might be a whole different story, so I realize that my experience is of limited use. Also, I am going to be in a Euro standard 3G country soon, so I may be singing a different tune once I see what the HD can really do
Anyway, just my 2 cents, and I wish you luck. If you get a project for 3G going, I will happily donate, as, I am sure, many other will, too.
The only GSM carriers in the US offering 3G capabilities are AT&T and T-Mobile. For 3G on the T-Mobile network, your phone must support both 1700 and 2100Mhz. The 2100Mhz bandwidth has been well-defined as the "D" (download) portion of HSDPA. I believe you will also see 3G referred to as WCMDA on the 2100Mhz spectrum. AT&T Wireless has opted for a more "standard" approach where they are reusing the original PCS frequency (1900Mhz) for the "U" (upload) portion of HSUPA.
To get true, bi-directional 3G, your device must include a software radio that supports both HSDPA and HSUPA. Anything else will be a hit-or-miss affair. While this may lead you to "rejoice" because our radios are software-based, be aware that the antennas in our phones are also a part of the equation.
Therefore, you will likely be able to use a Touch HD on the AT&T network at 3G speeds, but you will NOT (EVER) get 3G out of a Touch HD on the T-Mobile network in the US.
It's a real shame that T-Mobile chose to deviate from its parent (Deutsche Telekom - T-Mobile in Germany) on their frequency choice for 3G. It makes them odd-man out virtually world-wide. I suspect that they were unable to secure the rights to anything other than 1700Mhz, but I would argue that theie decision really crippled their users..... it's yet another reason why I would NEVER buy a G1. Really sad IMO.
simple and straight answer:
its a hardware issue ... you won't get US 3g on touch hd, period. (no rom update etc. will make it start working)
thesire said:
simple and straight answer:
its a hardware issue ... you won't get US 3g on touch hd, period. (no rom update etc. will make it start working)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple and straight answer back
No this is not true its a political issue, and the past shows already that it#s only a software issue, because the frequency range is so close to the European that the antenna is capable of those "between" frq.
The same is with Australia where some phones were original not capable but thr radio updates worked (nonofficial)
just my 2c
tobyp said:
It's a real shame that T-Mobile chose to deviate from its parent (Deutsche Telekom - T-Mobile in Germany) on their frequency choice for 3G. It makes them odd-man out virtually world-wide. I suspect that they were unable to secure the rights to anything other than 1700Mhz, but I would argue that theie decision really crippled their users..... it's yet another reason why I would NEVER buy a G1. Really sad IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IIRC, they showed up for the auction of the ranges and lost bids for the more standard frequencies. They were left with what they have...
3G Big Deal
Ive said it once and ill say it again. Edge on my HD is FASTER than my 3G diamond!!!!!!!!...so there...
thesire said:
simple and straight answer:
its a hardware issue ... you won't get US 3g on touch hd, period. (no rom update etc. will make it start working)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is not a hardware issue. i know it has been mentioned else where in this forum and others, and we got "official word" that this is a hardware issue. but it is not. i didn't speak up earlier because i know if i did, people will ask me for sources. i don't have sources, i know because i work on these type of stuff.
in simple terms, the hardware is just an antenna, it is the "software" that should be tuned to interpret the signal. just like you can use regular analog TV antenna to catch over the air HD signals, it is the tuner that does the job.
however the software you are thinking (cab files or ROM files) won't solve this problem:
the hardware isn't flashed with the firmware, it is not enabled in the low level to understand the language EVEN IF the ROM file and high level application allows for the functionality.
everyone's familiar with computers, an analogy is: if you disable say sound in the BIOS (by using a older/different version of BIOS), you can install (what we call "FLASH" in the mobile world) OS you want, and you can install different audio drivers, you are not going to get that functionality.
so that is why you can flash left and right different Touch HD roms, you can enable/disable different registry keys that make it look like it has the 850MHz choices in the drop down menus, and you can always try different Radio ROMs, but you are not going to get a bit of that functionality if the hardware/feature is disabled at the lowest level. you need to flash the actual hardware (in this case the anthenna//baseband) with the correct firmware. and i am talking about the real firmware. I think the misconception here when everyone's talking about "i'm flashing my Radio's firmware to the latest one", they are actually talking about the equivalent of a "driver" in the windows world. the real firmware is even lower than those "firmwware".
Hey buggybug0
I read through your comments and it seems very logical to me. However, do you think that it is possible in the future that the us 3g band will be enabled through a "hardware flash"?
I cant wait until that day happens. So I should buy now so the price premium isn't higher. . . . .How long does it usually take to take a phone that has the bands enabled already then some how incorporate that FW with the one on the HD?
typhoon99 said:
Hey buggybug0
I read through your comments and it seems very logical to me. However, do you think that it is possible in the future that the us 3g band will be enabled through a "hardware flash"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this hardware flash already exists, but because we are flashing a lower level hardware, you need a special cable, in addition to the binary file. only HTC has this special development cable, the cable plugs directly onto the board (not the miniUSB or extUSB port). we can't use the extUSB port because this port has no access to the memory that governs the baseband low level functionality: this is much like the older computer BIOS which you can only flash through the floppy drive. i believe windows mobile is behind windows, so this is where things are right now. nowadays you can run a high level .exe file in windows and have it access and flash the low level BIOS, may be some day this will become possible on windows mobile with a cab file flashing the low level baseband. but for the time being, the analogy is you need a special cable to flash, just like you need a floppy drive to flash.
everyone kept on saying lack of US 3g is a hardware difficulty, i know for a fact that this is a business decision. as much as US loves gadgets, europe and asia are much bigger markets, (the coolest phones always gets to europe, korean, japan taiwan first, other than a certain fruity brand). i don't doubt when HTC said "by the time we bring Touch HD to US, there will be much better phones, they are using this one-phone-for-you, one-phone-for-me strategy to keep customers hooked--> they disable the US band, and make the touch HD exclusive to europe, so North AMerican customers are all drooling, when the next gen phone comes that and improves on touch HD (call it HD2 for argument sake), they will release it to another regional market (for example US), then all european people will all get jealous and hooked, and get their interest up while US customers are paying big bucks to get them, so the 3rd phone which improves upon the HD2, and release it in europe, they will be all over it. it's a very good strategy because customer never loses interest. becuase you always want something you can't get. and you DEFINITELY want something that is better than the previous gen which you can't get. this for HTC means that the demand for their phone is always there at a healthy high level.
So what was up with the TyTn and TyTn 2.
Were they not able to do both US and EU 3G speeds? I don't recall there being different EU and US versions (like the Diamond).
I was using a Softbank X01HT version TyTn and was getting HSDPA speeds.
I would be surprised the HTC decided to cripple the phones since.
The Juggler said:
So what was up with the TyTn and TyTn 2.
Were they not able to do both US and EU 3G speeds? I don't recall there being different EU and US versions (like the Diamond).
I was using a Softbank X01HT version TyTn and was getting HSDPA speeds.
I would be surprised the HTC decided to cripple the phones since.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, there are HTC phones which had the same "BIOS", but the band were only disabled at the "driver" level, so the european brands of the same phone gets one Radio Rom while the US version gets a different Radio ROM. but since the functionality is already enabled at the lower level, it's just a matter of using a different radio rom (ie. driver) to enable the US 3G band.
I am not sure if the phone I am talking about is TyTn, but what I have same in the past 3 posts applies to a regular phone as well -- antenna is capable of receiving any frequency, it's up to the manufacture to insert the baseband software (this is the low level) to interpret those signals, then the interpretation gets passed onto the Radio stack (driver, radio rom), from there it goes to the operation system (winmob, symbian) then translates into applicatoin language to the actual application that's using the data (internet explorer, cell phone, IM app).
charlatan01 said:
IIRC, they showed up for the auction of the ranges and lost bids for the more standard frequencies. They were left with what they have...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your postulation could very well be the case. The fact remains that T-Mobile has created a 3G island for themselves and their subscribers here in the US. In my corporate discussions with T-Mobile, they demonstrate to me time and again that they simply do not "get it". Sad, very sad.
Only reason I stay with T-Mobile is the old (and I mean REALLY OLD) plan I have with them that no one has been able to beat cost-wise (plenty of minutes, unlimited data and hotspot access). I don't stay with them because they are at the top of the heap technically!
Well for those interested in the numebrs aspect, I have both the US and EU Diamond.
I tested both at dslreports.com using internet sharing. Same ROM (duttys 3.2), Same Radio (.05) , Same Laptop (via USB cable).
EU version (at EDGE speeds) came back at roughly 150 kbps.
US version (at H speeds) came back at roughly 450 kbps.
Of course this would only specifically apply to people in my area (Minneapolis). But it might shed some light on speed difference.
buggybug0,
until you provide your sources, your conclusions will remain a speculation for most of forum members. What you are saying may sound logical, but HTC may have different logic than you and you could still be wrong.
I agree with you that disabling 3G bands is a political decision though. And it's a commercial decision too. US carriers are apparently not looking to subsidize latest HTC handsets just yet for various reasons (T-Mob - due to G1, AT&T - due to iPhone 3G). However they will be shopping for new handsets sooner or later. If HTC releases a proper 3G quad-band device now, US carriers won't be happy and their further contracts for subsidized phones (which mean big money with no marketing/retail headaches for HTC) may never come in... Do they want to risk this big chunk? No.
Chances are you are right about the nature of band limitation problem and RF IC microcode may be crippled to support only certain bands on latest HTC devices. But it's still possible that some tracks are missing on the antenna PCB too. According to Qualcomm functional diagrams, it should be possible to multiplex RF signals for specific bands only.
This said, here's a challenge for you, prove your point with facts rather than speculations and you'll be a hero for a day.
Hello, I am interested in changing the phone band or frequency to make a 520 that operates in the European 3G range able to operate in the US 3G range. I have a US 3G 520 at my disposal. I have tried swapping the outer shell that according to the service manual contains the antenna but that does not help. I have also tried putting the motherboard from the European phone into the US phone and it still does not catch the frequency, which tells me that the ability to select bands is on the motherboard itself, and no other parts.
Is there any way to make this possible?
Out of idle curiosity, is this something you're doing for some "to see if I can" reason, or is there some other reason you've probably put more time and effort than the phone is worth into this?
Also, different US carriers use different 3G bands. Which carrier are you trying to use?
Oh, and you might need to flash a US ROM to your phone. In fact, you might *not* need to do anything else, depending on whether the requisite radios are physically present (on a budget device like the 520 though, they may not be).
They are $50 on amazon without a plan, I love lumias, and I have three 520s, one to use as a phone, one just for games and media, and one because it's well...freaking $50 for a great smart phone without a plan. So yes I have spent plenty of time sampling different roms and the various 8 and 8.1 updates and features. I enjoy it.
I'm aware of the differences between t mobile and att as well as 3g bands in Europe and USA. I'm using att go phones. It "seems" upon taking an rm914 and rm915 apart the hardware is the same. If there is a difference though it would have to be on the motherboard for reasons I stated above. I wanted some insight from people who know more about this.