Database Develop

AT&T or unlocked HTC retail unit?

OK,
Just trying to start a discussion here about the thought process I'm going through, wanted to see if anyone else was having the same dilemma.
Do I buy an unlocked Kaiser or wait for the Cingular 8925?
1) My wallet tells me to wait for the Cingular device - I'm due for an upgrade, I get a hardware discount through my company, and it is guaranteed to be cheaper.
but.....
2) I watched the unboxing video of the Tytn II retail unit, and it just looks like they threw in lots of goodies, nice case, TomTom software, etc. I doubt AT&T will throw in anything but the phone and a stylus.
and.....
3) we know that the unlocked version is fully featured and won't be crippled at all, whereas the AT&T version may disable GPS (except w/ their service) and/or the ROM may suck compared to the full HTC rom.
and finally.....
4) I can get an unlocked version NOW, versus waiting until god-knows-when (Oct/Nov?) to get an 8925.
The one other thing stopping me from going w/ an unlocked version is it seems to be mainly UK retailers (or US retailer selling a UK version). I want to wait until I can buy one in the U.S., with a U.S. power adapter. Has anyone seen this yet?
Thoughts?

its a tough call for myself im thinking just going HTC unlocked one and then when the 8925 comes out trying to add some of there rom stuff like cingular video app ect as its free with my data plan.
Another reason for the HTC one vrs the ATT one is ATT app locks them so you will have to wait a bit for someone to get a unlocking system working for it. With the 8525 it took 2-4 months if i remember correctly before there was a unlock avil for it.
Pricewise shrug if you can afford the htc one over waiting I would not even consider it then.

Well I CAN afford the HTC unit, doesn't mean I should waste money on it though

Realistically: AT&T unit is the best choice for price.
Preferably: Users on this forum would choose the htc if they can afford/justify it because it wont have nerfed hardware or software which the ATT version is likely to have.

Hoenstly, I would go with the HTC branded version before the AT&T. First, the HTC for sure will have GPS, the front facing camera, HSUPA, the case, and it's alrady unlocked. Worst case scenario, you have to buy a generic charger, or use your old one because it comes with the UK charger which we can't use. There is a lot more that your getting with the phone for the extra money. Especially if you have it to spend. AT&T always finds a way to spoil a situation becuause of their future plans an ideas. If you get the HTC branded Kaiser, at least there are no curve balls and you know that you're getting everything that the phone is capable of.

Triune said:
First, the HTC for sure will have GPS, the front facing camera
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is that? Is it possible that the AT&T model doesn't come with those features???

its more then likely ATT will not have the front camera as they do not support 2way video calling. also if the BB 8800 is any sign they will cripple the internal GPS if not take it out compleatly and force you to use there tower based telanav service.

Man, if I could afford, I would not even be asking this question. I would have a TyTN II on my hand right now.

Good points.
On the charger issue - won't HTC soon release a U.S. retail version of the Kaiser? Or are they prevented from doing so because of their relationship w/ AT&T?

there sales dep they use told me on the phone yesturday they will be selling them. she said they get them in on the 14th and there orders sould start going out on the 18th. Not sure if that ment u can order on the 14th or have to wait till the 18th tho.
Also note there sales dep does do contracts for ATT and all there americas carriers so they may or may not offier the unlocked one.
you can check there sales page from the HTC america site it send you to there sales front of letstalk.com

There has been people on here and other blogs claiming that AT&T may not offer some of these things. For instance, the 8525 didn't have the front camera, the case, and a few other things. AT&T is known for stripping down phones. Plus, even if AT&T doesn't offer the video conferencing now, when they do. you'll already have the capabilities to do it.

I expect the only crippling of GPS will be the lack of free Tom-Tom software. Of course telnav will be on there for them to make money but ATT would not disable GPS as other than that why buy a 8925 if you have a 8525. You can add your own GPS software, however the cost with that may bring you near just buying an unbranded Kaiser in the first place. I am waiting for the flame as to all the other great enhancements by upgrading, but I am talking about real useful stuff...when consumers spend $400 to change PDA it better be for something more than a little more RAM that they probably never maxed out the RAM on the 8525.

Isn't an HTC unlocked phone $800 or so ?
I don't see any point in going that route.
For $350 (probably) with 2 year contract, you'll get the same thing less :
1) front camera. i couldn't care less about that.
2) they MIGHT remove GPS. i have BT gps receiver already, so no issue there. even if you don't already have one, they are 80 bucks and don't suck up your PDA battery life.
3) i have ZERO doubt somebody will unlock this thing in short order. no value there either.
is it really worth $450 bucks to pick up 3 items that aren't of much use ?
just my 2c
DLD

RacerX10 said:
Isn't an HTC unlocked phone $800 or so ?
I don't see any pointing that route.
For $350 (probably) with 2 year contract, you'll get the same thing less :
1) front camera. i couldn't care less about that.
2) they MIGHT remove GPS. i have BT gps receiver already, so no issue there. even if you don't already have one, they are 80 bucks and don't suck up your PDA battery life.
3) i have ZERO doubt somebody will unlock this thing in short order. no value there either.
is it really worth $450 bucks to pick up 3 items that aren't of much use ?
just my 2c
DLD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree except I think GPS will be fully functional minus approx $100 TomTom software, so it still savings to wait for ATT version.

RacerX10 said:
Isn't an HTC unlocked phone $800 or so ?
I don't see any pointing that route.
For $350 (probably) with 2 year contract, you'll get the same thing less :
1) front camera. i couldn't care less about that.
2) they MIGHT remove GPS. i have BT gps receiver already, so no issue there. even if you don't already have one, they are 80 bucks and don't suck up your PDA battery life.
3) i have ZERO doubt somebody will unlock this thing in short order. no value there either.
is it really worth $450 bucks to pick up 3 items that aren't of much use ?
just my 2c
DLD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you'll pay at least $20 per month more for the PDA data plan

magnamar said:
Another reason for the HTC one vrs the ATT one is ATT app locks them so you will have to wait a bit for someone to get a unlocking system working for it. With the 8525 it took 2-4 months if i remember correctly before there was a unlock avil for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly - the Cingular 8525 released November '06 and the pof free unlocker was out before release day. But recall that the TyTN had been out for almost a year by the time 8525 released - so free unlocker predated 8525 but not TyTN. imei-check had unlockers even earlier.
Richard

wpbear said:
when consumers spend $400 to change PDA it better be for something more than a little more RAM that they probably never maxed out the RAM on the 8525.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I'm *hoping* the 128MB RAM brings performance of the Kaiser back up to the level of my iPAQ5555 on Mapopolis. Moving from a "400MHz 128MB" iPAQ to a "400MHz 64MB" 8525/TyTN made Mapopolis MUCH less useful - loading Los Angeles alone kills the 8525, and is quick as a bunny on the iPAQ
I'd pay the upgrade in a heartbeat if I were sure I'd get Mapopolis back up to iPAQ performance! My struggle is $800 to *maybe* get back my performance vs wait and pay $450 to *maybe* get back my performance.
FWIW, I switched from a CF GPS on the iPAQ to a BT GPS because I found reception to be MUCH better having the GPS on the dash of the car vs attached to the iPAQ in my hand. So I like the integrated GPS option, but I don't know that it'll really save me from using my existing BT GPS. GPS has improved a fair bit since my Holux CF days, but I don't know if that'll be enough to overcome the antenna positioning issues.
Just my $0.02,
Richard

kept it simple..
my rationalization: post my thoughts in the forum and hope that someone tells me i made the right decision. (just kidding!)
for me the purchase amounts to a redistribution of discretionary spending. i lowered discretionary spending for a few weeks to finance the (irrational) "early adopter" cost of a hot new toy. at the first opportunity i purchased the toy without hesitation. i'll deal with buyer's remorse for 24hrs or until the new toy gets here. once i have the new toy in my hands, the need to rationalize will inexplicably disappear...
in other words, i was willing to pay the premium cost of getting what i wanted when i wanted it. i know i'll enjoy the new toy...lol
just my $0.02 (that i have left after buying the new toy )

rsolomon said:
Actually I'm *hoping* the 128MB RAM brings performance of the Kaiser back up to the level of my iPAQ5555 on Mapopolis. Moving from a "400MHz 128MB" iPAQ to a "400MHz 64MB" 8525/TyTN made Mapopolis MUCH less useful - loading Los Angeles alone kills the 8525, and is quick as a bunny on the iPAQ
I'd pay the upgrade in a heartbeat if I were sure I'd get Mapopolis back up to iPAQ performance! My struggle is $800 to *maybe* get back my performance vs wait and pay $450 to *maybe* get back my performance.
FWIW, I switched from a CF GPS on the iPAQ to a BT GPS because I found reception to be MUCH better having the GPS on the dash of the car vs attached to the iPAQ in my hand. So I like the integrated GPS option, but I don't know that it'll really save me from using my existing BT GPS. GPS has improved a fair bit since my Holux CF days, but I don't know if that'll be enough to overcome the antenna positioning issues.
Just my $0.02,
Richard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mapoplis should be replaced by tomtom anyway but thats my opinion.
as far as gps reception in the car...there is a cheap wired ext antenna already for the device

wpbear said:
mapoplis should be replaced by tomtom anyway but thats my opinion.
as far as gps reception in the car...there is a cheap wired ext antenna already for the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TomTom performance on the 8525 certainly beats Mapopolis on that machine, but the UI is years behind: No text-to-speech???? In the 21st century??? WTF! TomTom POI management is a joke compared to Mapopolis, try to add your own Restaurant in TomTom - it's gotta be in a custom category and thus won't show up in all the Restaurant searches.
Yes, I did the wired antenna thing for my CF GPS and it helps, but it's yet one more wire. The BT is wonderful, no wires, better signal.... Don't get me wrong, I'll be tickled if Kaiser GPS is usable!
Richard

Tilt, or Tytn (wm6 or wm6.1)

OK, out of strange series of events I ended up buying a tilt and a Tytn II online that should be here soon. I also purchased a 8GB card *drools* that I'm saving for when the lucky phone gets here.
First off I want to say I've had a 8525 (hermes) for a year or so and I wanted to upgrade I am very familar with having this PDA and it's plans but what I'm not used to is flashing (even though I did it once to upgrade my phone from wm5 to wm6) I would like to know which ROM are best at the moment or even if there is one and if it's even worth it to jump into 6.1 right now.
My second question would be 0_0 which phone do I keep?? they are both new and I plan on selling the other one. The tilt isn't unlocked but I don't see how that really matters since I'll be using att anyway. Also Black is my favorite color (which this tilt is). but I do like the extra camera that the tytn has (even though I probably won't be able to use it). So which one should I keep?? Which ROM should I install once I decide which one to keep??

does anyone have an idea??

Read all about the ROM's and then decide which best suits your needs.
The phones are basically the same, especially if you install a ROM.

xcom923 said:
does anyone have an idea??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm just putting this out there, but you know.... since you have a second one, people are looking for a donation tilt/tytn to work on for video drivers

I'd keep the Tilt. The units are basically exactly the same, and you can get more in return for the TYTN II since it has the front camera that you can't use. The only thing you can use the front camera for is a mirror, so unless you are a pretty vain person, I don't think it is worth it. If money isn't an object for you, I think the TYTN II is a little cooler looking, but it doesn't really make sense to spend the extra amount for it over the Tilt.
I'm looking to purchase a cheap Hermes if you are letting that go too.

Well yeah I am planning on selling it. I was planning on trying to sell it for 280 with the 2GB card how does that sound to you??

If you had the chance TyTN II or Tilt...?

I was just wondering... if there is a chance for you to pick again...
and money is not a factor...
will you buy a TyTN II or a Tilt...
I bought the Tilt however it was because I didn't have the money to buy a TyTN II...
now thinking about it... I might really have spend the extra 100 to 200 for TyTN II...
not that I don't like Tilt... but I would really like to get the TyTN II because it can make video calls...
what is your opinion...? will you get TyTN II or Tilt...?

What's the exact difference between the Tilt and the TyTN II?
As for the video calls, not many people have a front-camera atm and it's also pretty expensive atm. Therefor I think the ability to make video calls isn't that important.

as far as im concerned i am really happy with the tilt. I saved money and with the amount of cabs, roms,radios, and tweaking this site has I'm never bored. And as far as I know, my tilt can do anything a tytnII, iPhone, or any other cool phone can do.

Jasperrr said:
What's the exact difference between the Tilt and the TyTN II?
As for the video calls, not many people have a front-camera atm and it's also pretty expensive atm. Therefor I think the ability to make video calls isn't that important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
besides who else do you know with a video camera in the front of their phone? Keep what you got that little phone in teh front is not worth the money.

well i would get the TytnII cuz its the original i guess...and i rather get the original...plus i'm in BC canada..and we dont have atnt

I have never understood Video Calling on cell phones, but maybe it is my age talking.
Save the $200 and use it to go see the person and vice versa

I live in Toronto...
I got my at&t tilt over ebay...
Rogers has very cheap video thats why I really want video call...

TyTN II by far. It looks better IMO and has a great presentation in terms of packaging.

JwY said:
TyTN II by far. It looks better IMO and has a great presentation in terms of packaging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only difference that you can see is the extra photo camera on the frontcover?

Well I for one aim very stoked about getting my Tilt. (Which should arrive this Thursday) I have looked into getting the unlocked TyTn II but I have no use for Video calling as no one I know also has this feature.
I also look forward to joining the Kaiser community....

The question is like asking If you want the Ford Explorer XL or Ford Explorer XLT. They are but the same phone only AT$T "Tweaked" it becasue they are fudge packers like that.
I currently have a Tilt. I would love to have a Tytn II only because I am a hardcore gadget Geek and The Weak Front Camera makes the Tytn II that much more "ultimate" than the Tilt.
But Overall i think its personal preference.

Tilt, by far for the $. If $ isn't an object, why not go for the front camera?!
Although, the front camera is not really worth even an extra $20 in my opinion...

Tilt!
I just picked up a refurb Tilt through cingular and re-upped for 2 years, and the price was.... 149.00 + Tax, etc.
BTW, this thing is in perfect condition, and works great so far.
Probably got a unit that was fixed after someone fried the diode while car-charging, lol.
Now for a new TyTyn II, gulp, I think I would have paid alot more.
Not worth the upgrade for me, besides I'd be afraid I would accidently engage the front camera while in a compromising position

+1, I signed a new contract and got a major discount, and they even threw a bunch of stuff in. I paid $250 out the door for a new Tilt, and retail is, well, almost twice that on Ebay which is the cheapest source.

Just so us non us folks have i say.I have a tytn II for a good few months now and i have never used the front camera. i have a good video call package but its just a pain in the bum and the video call are crap anyway. So tilt get my vote anyday (if we could buy them over here)

Jasperrr said:
The only difference that you can see is the extra photo camera on the frontcover?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The colour scheme is different as well. The front keys aren't all chrome on the TyTN II and the number keys on the QWERTY aren't white.
Not a big deal to most, but I'm picky like that.

Upgrade Advice

I currently have a Kaiser (HTC TyTnII on UK Orange) but have only just looked into the HTC Touch Diamond... and wow, does it look nice!
On the Orange website it's saying I can't upgrade my phone until May next year. eBay has the Diamond at around £350.
So, I guess I'm wondering if anyone can advise me. Are Orange likely to cut me a deal if I call them up? I guess I'm bound to a contract with them at present so I can't say I'm leaving them. Will it be easiest just to buy one from eBay?
Is it worth it? Is the Touch Pro out or coming out soon? Should I wait for that?

AndyCr15 said:
I currently have a Kaiser (HTC TyTnII on UK Orange) but have only just looked into the HTC Touch Diamond... and wow, does it look nice!
On the Orange website it's saying I can't upgrade my phone until May next year. eBay has the Diamond at around £350.
So, I guess I'm wondering if anyone can advise me. Are Orange likely to cut me a deal if I call them up? I guess I'm bound to a contract with them at present so I can't say I'm leaving them. Will it be easiest just to buy one from eBay?
Is it worth it? Is the Touch Pro out or coming out soon? Should I wait for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can't upgrade until May then you'll get little joy out of Orange I'm afraid. You have to be in the last three months of your contract before they'll let you upgrade. However, saying that you've got nothing to lose by calling them and you may be able to get a deal if you change your package to a more expensive one.
Cal them first before going the eBay route - as I said you've got nothing to lose.
Is it worth it? Hell, yeah! I was torn between the Diamond and waiting for the Pro, but impatience got the better of me and I plumped for the Diamond.
Even though I've only had it a day I can definitely say that it is fantastic! It's up to you if you want to wait for the Pro. I've come from a TyTN II myself and I sat back and really thought about it before going for the Diamond, and basically asked myself two questions:
1. How often did I use the keypad? Very rarely, maybe three times in the eight months that I owned the phone.
2. How much free space did I have on my 4Gb SD card? 2.5Gb, so for me having 4Gb of non-upgradable storage wasn't an issue.
The final thing that swung it for me was the size of the thing. It's good to have a PDA that's "phone sized", rather than being a huge brick.

Thats a good idea Have a word with Orange and twist there arms, see what you can do. I think my missus is due an Upgrade in August and im sure she will go for the Diamond (but as shes skint, I think shes gonna put it on eBay!!!!!!!)
I love my diamond and have used phones with hardware keyboards and like the post above says, how often do you really use it?
Software professionals and IT gurus would probably miss it as im sure using a hardware keyboard and using the Remote Desktop software is a great combination, but the VGA screen is excellent on the Diamond, its the best phone ive ever owned (and ive had quite a few...see my signature!)
Diamond = Thumbs up. Theres sooo much software and tweaks out at the moment with more software coming out just around the corner!
The futures bright, the futures...errr...Diamond? hehe!

Teppic24 said:
1. How often did I use the keypad? Very rarely, maybe three times in the eight months that I owned the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, how did you cope without the keypad? I think I probably use it 10-20 times a day and this is the main reason I'm holding back on upgrading I guess.
It looks a fantastic piece of kit... but I don't think I'd like using an onscreen keyboard

How long have you been with Orange?
If it's over a couple of years remind them how much money they have had off you and if that doesn't work tell them you will consider cancelling the contract. Generally they want to keep customers so will eventually give in.
Also, it's always good to ask to speak to their line manager if they can't help.

Hello
I am sorry to read of your experience with Orange, I would like to discuss your account with you so that we can achieve a mutually satisfactory resolution.
Please can you respond to [email protected] with a subject of "Debbie OrangeResponse" so that your details can be passed to me quickly and efficiently.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Debbie
Orange Response

Kaiser, is still a worth buy??

Hi to all, I'm a quite happy owner of a orbit2 (aka Polaris).
A few days ago I was wondering in a used marcket and I found a used Kaiser at a price that it was impossible a year ago.
I need a second mobile phone and I'm wondering if kaiser is still a wotrh buy, now that there are G1 and G2.
So I ask my question to the Kaiser community....
Thanks to any suggestion

Yes Kaiser\Tilt still worth buy @ good price...
Probably not going to get an unbiased view in a Kaiser\Tilt forum section

stylez said:
Yes Kaiser\Tilt still worth buy @ good price...
Probably not going to get an unbiased view in a Kaiser\Tilt forum section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you're probably right, it's difficult that I could have an unbiased answer, but I think that kaiser owner could be disappointed of their device or are looking forward to the new tech, maybe without lack of driver
And I find it at 200 euros...is it a good price?? I think so, maybe because I buy my polaris a year ago at 400

I had the Tilt over a year ago and sold it but just bought another one on eBay days ago for around 190 US.
Worth the buy to me...

Mormy said:
Yes, you're probably right, it's difficult that I could have an unbiased answer, but I think that kaiser owner could be disappointed of their device or are looking forward to the new tech, maybe without lack of driver
And I find it at 200 euros...is it a good price?? I think so, maybe because I buy my polaris a year ago at 400
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree will possibly find some unhappy Kaiser users
Not sure on the currency value of £ to € in UK £150 - £200 is a good price, the Kaiser is still a very good device, driver issue really not a bigee "well not to me"
Also many ROMs to choose from and the lovely Tilt Keyboard only on TP2 too.
Yep i'm biased

esmith said:
I had the Tilt over a year ago and sold it but just bought another one on eBay days ago for around 190 US.
Worth the buy to me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too am biased. Bought mine on Ebay a year ago for $275US and with all the ROMS to choose from nowadays it hard not to be happy with it.

My Nokia N95 recently died, and so I went hunting on eBay for a new phone (I wanted a Windows Mobile device this time).
I came across the Kaiser at £125 buy it now, so bought it. This was about 2 weeks ago, and I'm planning on putting it back up on eBay now
It's a nice phone, but it's not without it's problems that really annoy me.
The keyboard - I much preferred the number pad on my N95 with the T9 predictive text. The Kaiser has T9, but you still have to use the QWERTY keyboard
No 3.5mm headphone socket. I bought an adapter, and after 4 days of use it fell to pieces this morning.
Stylus - I've lost the pen once already, but found it again in the library.
Crashes - I'm running the Ultimate X V2 ROM, and so far today it's crashed 3 times on me today
No graphics drivers - means I can't play graphics accelerated games, and normal games become laggy
Games become laggy even moreso when you touch the screen whilst playing
If you receive a text and can't view it straight away, if the phone is in your pocket all the touchscreen gets pressed and opens loads of programs
I'm sure there's more but I can't think of it right now!

thomasw234 said:
My Nokia N95 recently died, and so I went hunting on eBay for a new phone (I wanted a Windows Mobile device this time).
I came across the Kaiser at £125 buy it now, so bought it. This was about 2 weeks ago, and I'm planning on putting it back up on eBay now
It's a nice phone, but it's not without it's problems that really annoy me.
The keyboard - I much preferred the number pad on my N95 with the T9 predictive text. The Kaiser has T9, but you still have to use the QWERTY keyboard
No 3.5mm headphone socket. I bought an adapter, and after 4 days of use it fell to pieces this morning.
Stylus - I've lost the pen once already, but found it again in the library.
Crashes - I'm running the Ultimate X V2 ROM, and so far today it's crashed 3 times on me today
No graphics drivers - means I can't play graphics accelerated games, and normal games become laggy
Games become laggy even moreso when you touch the screen whilst playing
If you receive a text and can't view it straight away, if the phone is in your pocket all the touchscreen gets pressed and opens loads of programs
I'm sure there's more but I can't think of it right now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I picked mine up for £90 on ebay which included the case, spare battery and docking station, bargin or what.
Thomas, I changed from a N95 also to this and I wouldnt go back, try a different ROM, Im using Chinhe wm 6.5F 21501. WM 6.5 is so much better then 6.1 and the Manila 2d interface is excellent. Add a few extra apps like youtube, MyPlayer (BBC I-Player) and shed loads of other things and you will have a excellent device, drop me a pm if you like and ill let you know how i set mine out and you will love it

It all comes down to preference. Personally, I wouldn't buy another tilt for two reasons: VGA screens are MUCH nicer for web browsing, and the recessed screen is substantially less finger-friendly.
Aside from those two issues, though, it's a pretty solid device. I think the Touch Pro is a pretty solid step up, but the Tilt might be worth it depending on price.

I got rid of my Kaiser when I bought both a G1 and a Raphael: G1 is gone and I bought another Kaiser. The Kaiser is cheap (around $165 on ebay if timed right), still more powerful than most phones, super-reliable and strong. Add in the fact that you can unlock them for free and all the software available and this one is sticking with me until it dies. Honestly, the Raphael's screen is nice, but it really doesn't FEEL any faster than the Kaiser. So in the end, all you get is more ram, a sharper screen, and a G-sensor...for $150 more than a Kaiser.

£90 is a bargain!
My Kaiser was on Orange originally, and although it's now unlocked, on any ROM except the Orange (or so it seems) it sends every text twice and charges me double!
I'll have a look at the I-Player software... but I tried Manilla 2D and didn't really like it that much (I seem to have contrasting opinions to everyone else here ).
Now I've got a stable ROM running I must say it is growing on me, especially as I enjoy developing software in C#, and Windows Mobile has the .NET Compact Framework.

Well im currently running Chinhe wm 6.5 21501 v3 (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=509576) . It is quite a lite package but so far it is very stable add to that the Manilla 2d thats pre installed and add the 'New HTC' skin it looks sooooo nice, ive showed it to all my mates including IPhone owners and they have been blown away. I can highly recommend the last FM app (Uk owners only) for live streaming music.
When using the iplayer (myplayer) u need to tweak it to use the steaming player that comes preinstalled.
Ive attached a few goodies for you all, enjoy ya phones, I was a Nokia fan for for 12 years but now im a HTC convert.

I just tried to sell my AT&T Tilt on eBay, not once but twice with a starting price of $150 and didn't get a single bid! If anyone here is interested in it, you can PM me or e-mail me at [email protected]
It has a few scuffs, and a piece of the trim by the SIM holder is broken off, but it works fine (just have to be careful when you are putting the SIM in).

bluedragon1971 said:
I just tried to sell my AT&T Tilt on eBay, not once but twice with a starting price of $150 and didn't get a single bid! If anyone here is interested in it, you can PM me or e-mail me at [email protected]
It has a few scuffs, and a piece of the trim by the SIM holder is broken off, but it works fine (just have to be careful when you are putting the SIM in).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats where you went wrong, starting at $150 way to high, if im surfing ebay for something I watch Items and bid at the last min, like what most people do. Start at 99c you will get a hell of alot more interest then $150.

i have the tmobile kaiser since more then 18 months now, quite happy with it. however the newer models from HTC seem to be better and even the latest symbian's from nokia would be worth a try.
depends more on preference / usage / pricing / etc.
you guys in uk get excellent deals with your service providers...
so check everything b4 u decide.