I’d like to know if you’ll be able to upgrade your present phone from 6.1 to 6.5 and then later 7? I’ve just bought my Touch Diamond and will be using it for atleast 2 years, would be a shame if I couldnt upgrade the OS when it comes out…
Kind of like asking how long is a piece of string??? Considering no one really knows what hardware specification will be required to run either WinMo 6.5 or WinMo 7... IMHO I would say that WinMo 6.5 highly possible (Tread in Diamond ROM section with an apparently leaked version, although not for the Touch Diamond) , WinMo 7 only Micro$oft will be able to answer that one???
windows mobile is made for a specific phone... drivers, enhancements, everything. if they decide to provide us with an upgrade, we get an upgrade. if a device VERY similar to ours has it, we *might* be able to use it too. beyond that, you can't go to the store and buy it, so we're really at the mercy of everybody else involved.
According to some of the teaser details already released about Windows Mobile 7, it will likely require a capacitive screen, and the G1 is the only phone by HTC to use one so far.
We don't really know much about WM7 though. That teaser info that was released quite a while ago hinted at possible gesture recognition, multitouch, etc., but I think that release was as much marketing ploy as anything else.
I doubt that WM7 will require a capacitive screen, although I would expect that it will support them. There are a number of reasons not to ditch resistive screens. Fine detail can't be input on a capacitive screen, which causes numerous problems. Complex alphabets (Asian), legacy support for existing applications, cost... the list goes on, but requiring capacitive screens would essentially erase the entire foundation that WM is built on. I don't think MS wants to do that. The great thing about WM (and MS vs Apple in general) is that they don't tie you to one piece of hardware. You have much greater flexibility in terms of cost, features, form-factor, etc.
I was hoping for WM7 this year, but now that most announcements put WM6.5 devices at Q3-Q4, it seems highly doubtful we'll see a WM7 device until at least mid 2010. By that time I'll be ready for a new device anyway (Tegra, new Qualcomm/AMD chipset, who knows), so the issue is almost moot. I'm with you though, I'd still like to see WM7 on the Diamond/Pro/HD!
Related
Ive been eagerly following reviews and videos of the Diamond, but if I sit back and consider it for a while, i find that its not really anything new here. All we have is a good looking application launcher interface made by HTC. Problem is, that it all boils down to the same dull, slow Windows Mobile applications, such as the calendar and messaging application. Considering that most of the phone looks and feels like it did all the way back to Windows PocketPC 2002, it kinda takes away the joy. Am I the only one who feels this way?
I know there are decent 3rd party contact managers, Calendars and such, but its not the same... I for one am really anticipating Windows Mobile 7, which I feel will be the "revolution" in Windows Mobile ive been looking for. Cuz right now, all I see is HTC trying to show of Windows Mobile as being better than it really is.
Dont get me wrong though, I still think Windows Mobile is the best mobile OS available, due to the functionality. But it annoys me that its slow and looks boring. My dreamphone would have the functionality and professionalism of a Windows Mobile, and the interface and responsiveness of an iPhone! Hopefully, it will come soon, either with Windows Mobile 7 later this year, or if a miracle strikes, on Apples Release Announcement, June 9th.
I know exactly what you mean. Makes me wonder why I bother getting new devices so often when they're all basically the same - all with the same flaws, quirks, and irritations.
Yes WM7 will improve matters. But even then I'm expecting to see echoes of previous WM "issues" appearing here and there.
To be honest, I haven't looked too closely at WM7 previews yet, so I'm expecting a standard cosmetic overhaul. However, I'm guessing they're not going to do anything too complicated - such as the complete re-write of Pocket Outlook that I would argue is long overdue...
What's the likelihood of a WM7 update for the Touch Diamond?
htc-not likely, porting it-very likely, unless they chane the whole way the os works
Wonder if the Diamonds specifications will actually make the Windows mobile application faster, or if they are just bound to be forever slow :/
My question is this..(I have never had a Winmo device so excuse my ignorance)
Will this phone be able to support WinMo7 when it is released?
Also, will HTC support it with a new touchflo thing?
or will it mean Id have to buy a new phone within a year?
Considering that WinMo 6.1 is only just being released with this phone - I doubt anyone could tell you whether the next OS is going to be supported on it or not with any certainty - it's not finalised yet!
That said, if any phone is going to be WinMo 7 compatible, this will - it's the most advanced phone to date and has every feature possible.
"or will it mean Id have to buy a new phone within a year?"
most reports seem to indicate that even when wm7 is released around Q2 2009
older devices with wm6.1 will continue to function
and not spontaneous combust
I dont't think any current phone will be able to run WinMo7 as it will support (or even require) multi-touch.
TDO
TDO said:
I dont't think any current phone will be able to run WinMo7 as it will support (or even require) multi-touch.
TDO
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Hmmm. But Microsoft can virtualise multi-touch.
Of course this is pure speculation but given their pattern, If HTC sells as many Diamonds as they are expecting, I can see them putting some effort into a Windows Mobile 7 upgrade rom as they did with upgrading the original touch over other more recent devices. With that really depends on what kind of upgrade path Microsoft makes for the devices and if it's even doable, if Windows Mobile 7 lives upto what everyone is saying about it, may need to upgrade to a device specifically designed for it.
For me the Touch Diamond is the last step to reaching the perfect device. Has everything I've wanted, small form factor, good amount of program memory, all the necessary features, better screen with VGA. Only thing that could make it better is an even better (capacitive) screen with a higher resolution and of course, a much better more updated front end operating system, ala Windows Mobile 7.
i think this device will not support winmo7 bcoz have new technologies.. and honestly, this device IS NOT SUPERB. just a faster processor, a lot of memory and gps stuff. the same thing as older ones
who knows maybe ms will only make wm 7 pro for atom based cpu's rather then arms
which may then be used as wm7 std with no touchscreen?
naaah prob not
Rudegar said:
who knows maybe ms will only make wm 7 pro for atom based cpu's rather then arms
which may then be used as wm7 std with no touchscreen?
naaah prob not
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that would be suicide for them if they did. I heard a rumor that WinMo7 will be multitouch also !
M$ has stated in 2009 they will come out with Window$ Mobile 6.5. I think that only devices that were shipped from the orginal launch date with 6.1 will be upgradable to 6.5 free from Sprint perhaps. Much in the same way that the Touch went from 6.0 to 6.1. I do not think the touch will get 6.5 as it was shipped from launch with 6.0.
My views:
- yes, the next step is 6.5, not 7, so no need to be doing plans on wm7 for the Touch Diamond at the moment.
- Which 'touch' are you talking about? If it's the Touch Diamond, it has been released from the very beginning with 6.1 on it, not 6.0.
- It's hard to say whether or not HTC will provide us with an official upgrade to 6.5, their policy is so unpredictable and not always sensible...
(remember what happened to European users of P3600...)
- I don't see any reason (except a processor major change as hinted in the post above) why Diamond would not be compatible.
- as far as I know, wm7 is designed to provide old phones with as many new features as possible.
Example: they even think of a work around for phones without accelerometr to sense motions using the built in camera.
- this doesn't mean old phones will be able to get the most out of wm7 new technologies, such as multitouch. But they will be using what their hardware allow them to.
As the title states does the Diamond have the CPU, memory and technology to run Windows Mobile 7?
I mean a 528MHz CPU is pretty fast.
Who knows?
Seeing as nobody really knows what WinMo7 will include (software or hardware), it's difficult to answer that one. If multi-touch is more than just a rumour, then the answer is 'no', as the Diamond has a resistive screen, not capacitive, which is needed for multi-touch.
Also, HTC are talking about using different processors (nVidia I think?)... any change in hardware, makes it even less likely that we'll be able to run the OS on our current devices.
Personally, I would be pretty pissed at Microsoft if todays' devices have the hardware to run 'tomorrows' OS. What I want is a giant leap forward, not a small step! But, I am talking about Microsoft, so my expectations are low!
yeah, microsoft is always a step behind in keeping technology and software in sync. usually the software lags behind the hardware, and it always seems like they use the processors to near capacity anyway when they do develop something, to make up for not having it before...
i.e., microsoft voice command, which came out way after nokia did theirs, and not as good either, etc.
I"m guessing that winmo 7 will use almost the maximum capacity of whatever device comes out at that time.
grahamkdt said:
Seeing as nobody really knows what WinMo7 will include (software or hardware), it's difficult to answer that one. If multi-touch is more than just a rumour, then the answer is 'no', as the Diamond has a resistive screen, not capacitive, which is needed for multi-touch.
Also, HTC are talking about using different processors (nVidia I think?)... any change in hardware, makes it even less likely that we'll be able to run the OS on our current devices.
Personally, I would be pretty pissed at Microsoft if todays' devices have the hardware to run 'tomorrows' OS. What I want is a giant leap forward, not a small step! But, I am talking about Microsoft, so my expectations are low!
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Yah I guess when you put it that way, it makes sense. I probably won't want WM7 to run on my diamond.
Well WM7 on today's hardware is maybe called WinMo 6.5
This would be a great marketing if MS will use WM7 skin in WM6.5 but almost everything will be the same as 6.1.
So users with today's hardware will get new today screen.
And WM7 will get new HW.
Seems simple.
Previously the devices have had the power for upgrade.
My blueangel originally ran WM2003, It's been upgraded to WM5, WM6 and finally WM6.1....
So the optimism for the huge leap forward thing is somewhat lacking in my part. If my old blue angel can happily keep pace with the same software my diamond is running.
I'm not sure how MS will manage with multitouch.....It was on the news today that apple have finally been granted a patent on it and that they are about to start sueing other devices which are using it.....
Might sadly mean no multitouch for PPC...but we'll see.
will windows mobile 6.5 be released officially for tytn2
what makes you think it will for the tytn ii
lufc said:
what makes you think it will for the tytn ii
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He didn't say it will be, he asked if it will be, as if anyone around here would know that.
sorry missread that thanks for pulling me up
doesn't matter, we'll rip it out of another device that updates first or get a good leaked version anyway. That's how it always seems to work at XDA.
and that seems a dam good way for xda to work and keep us all happy
Before this thread gets locked for being pointless. Micro$oft just releases WM 6.5. It is not written for any phone or with any phone or manufacturer in mind. It is HTC that decides which phones they will write new roms for, and whether or not they will include WM 6.5 in the new rom.
And it is the carriers that decide whether to ask HTC to write a new rom for them that includes 6.5 . Micro$oft can release 6.5, HTC can write a rom with it included, then ultimately, in my case , it is AT$T who decides whether it will ever see a Tilt.
Most of those descisions are based on the fact that AT$T wants you to buy a new phone, this does not happen if they keep supporting old phones.
Good job, denco7, that should answer the question.
Anyway, WM 6.5 is too buggy for the moment, and I really do not like the beehive interface. We currently have PIE 6 and M2D and works fine on Kaiser.
HTC will not care to dedicate one minute to such and old device. They have released several models after Kaiser and will be announcing more models this week at MWC. They are following the old policy of "if you want a better or fixed firmware, purchase a new device".
i agree the copy of wm 6.5 is a bit buggy but when the final is released i am sure cookers will make great roms out of it
6.5 is too buggy ? Where did you get a copy to test ? The cooked roms here have a leaked kernel which they are using as the base of a cooked Kaiser rom. It makes me laugh when people get " leaked " versions or " hacked " versions and then come out with an overall asessment of the product.
Final versions of things usually have a lot of security around them, preproduction or discontinued projects do not. These are the ones that usually get " leaked. "
It would be like if Ferarri dropped a little 4cyl motor in a predroduction car just to be able to drive it in to the wind tunnel for testing, then some one leaks out " oh my, the new Ferrari's suck, they are way under powered with only 4cyl engines ....."
While we have been conditioned not to expect much from Micro$oft, I don't think the 6.5 we have is the 6.5 we are going to get as an official release.
denco7 said:
Before this thread gets locked for being pointless. Micro$oft just releases WM 6.5. It is not written for any phone or with any phone or manufacturer in mind. It is HTC that decides which phones they will write new roms for, and whether or not they will include WM 6.5 in the new rom.
And it is the carriers that decide whether to ask HTC to write a new rom for them that includes 6.5 . Micro$oft can release 6.5, HTC can write a rom with it included, then ultimately, in my case , it is AT$T who decides whether it will ever see a Tilt.
Most of those descisions are based on the fact that AT$T wants you to buy a new phone, this does not happen if they keep supporting old phones.
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HTC’s Touch Diamond 2 and Touch Pro 2, announced today, will be upgradeable to Windows Mobile 6.5. New enhanced contact integration combined with new Internet capabilities deliver a people-centric approach to mobile communication. HTC’s Touch Diamond 2 features TouchFLO 3D, a sleek and compact design with a large 3.2-inch high-resolution wide-screen display, while HTC Touch Pro 2 introduces one of the best-ever mobile productivity experiences on a phone highlighted by HTC’s new Straight Talk technology, an integrated e-mail, voice and speakerphone experience.
maybe this thread was written before mine and I just didn't see it... oops. Ok, so htc probably won't make one for the tilt and really don't like that, but there's always really great, reliable roms on here so I'm sure it will be fine. Besides, not buying a new phone any time soon. I don't have any money and plus the stupid phone that htc made to replace the tilt (help me here guys?) took a step backwards and lost any form of tilt functionality, which if ya ask me, was a huge advantage over other devices. So yea.
I believe the HTC Touch Pro2 (which they just announced at MWC) tilts. and is sexy mcsexy.
A.B.C. said:
I believe the HTC Touch Pro2 (which they just announced at MWC) tilts. and is sexy mcsexy.
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Yes it tilts. In all sense and purpose it seems to be the successor to the Kaiser.
azuka said:
Yes it tilts. In all sense and purpose it seems to be the successor to the Kaiser.
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lol, yea. I saw that a few hours after I wrote that! lol.
WM 6.5 is not planned to be released for any currently available device.
engadgetmobile.com[/URL] said:
Microsoft Announces Windows Mobile 6.5
With an endless chain of leaks dating back several months, the suspense factor might not be there that Microsoft had been hoping for -- but for what it's worth, Windows Mobile 6.5 is now official. The latest rendition of Microsoft's mobile platform puts an emphasis on touch-friendliness with a honeycomb-style main menu that the company says is easier to finger than a traditional grid layout; a new lock screen that can be slid on different alerts to automatically call up texts, voicemails, and so on; a thoroughly-restyled cut of Internet Explorer Mobile that features a touchable zoom slider and frequently-used commands; redesigned menus that don't need a stylus to actuate; fingerable home and contacts screens, and more. It's not the thorough gutting of the platform many were hoping for, but for anyone thinking that Windows Mobile 6.1 can stand another facelift without ending up looking like Joan Rivers, 6.5's clearly your baby. Sadly, Microsoft's saying that no devices in the market today will receive official 6.5 updates, but don't pull out your wallets just yet, though -- the first devices with Windows Mobile 6.5 preinstalled should be available in the fourth quarter of the year.
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MS Sucks! Unfortunately!
Even Apple which is quite money grubbing gave out the iphone upgrade to the original iphone buyers. Why - good public relations: Give the software, but say "Sorry, the best stuff won't work unless you buy the NEW phone".
People who get the upgrade will say "That's nice of Apple. Next time I upgrade, I'll stick with the iPhone!"
The TyTN II is not an ancient phone (not new, but not ancient). C'mon MS - if the great guys here at xda-developers can make your software work on the TyTN II, then it surely shouldn't be so difficult for you.
You really need to encourage people to stick with you otherwise - Hello Blackberry, iPhone and Pre! (yea the last one really rocks!)
aditseng said:
Even Apple which is quite money grubbing gave out the iphone upgrade to the original iphone buyers. Why - good public relations: Give the software, but say "Sorry, the best stuff won't work unless you buy the NEW phone".
People who get the upgrade will say "That's nice of Apple. Next time I upgrade, I'll stick with the iPhone!"
The TyTN II is not an ancient phone (not new, but not ancient). C'mon MS - if the great guys here at xda-developers can make your software work on the TyTN II, then it surely shouldn't be so difficult for you.
You really need to encourage people to stick with you otherwise - Hello Blackberry, iPhone and Pre! (yea the last one really rocks!)
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It's called "Forced Progress Through Planned Obsolecence". For all intents and purposes Windows 2000 Professional Edition is plenty adequate for today's needs, and XP RTM was just basically W2k SP2+Luna+newer device support. Windows 2000, while perfectly adequate for 99.9% of needs, (OK, no directX 9c or 10.1), has reached EoL, and is no longer supported by MS. Windows XP will soon meet a similar fate, even though it is adequate for most businuss and conusumer needs. I have personally installed XP on a P1 166 o/ced to 200Mhz with 256MB of RAM. It worked fine as a workstation OS on such limited hardware, but forget about gaming. Try to install Vista on a computer with less then a 1Ghz processor and 1GB of RAM, and you're going to be wishing you never heard of Vista. Vista isn't even truly "usable" unless you have a reletivly modern machine. (2.0Ghz+ processor, 2GB+ PC3200 DDR RAM, 7200RPM HDD with at least 30GB available for OS+basic applications.
Yes, I do realize that XP Home was a significant improvment over Win9x; which most consumers were using at that time. Still the jump from Windows 2000 Professional SP2 to Windows XP Professional RTM was a miniscule improvement at best. Heck, Windows XP (even SP1), isn't very secure. All you need is a Win2k installation CD, and you can get administrator access to Windows XP RTM and SP1 just by booting into the recovery console and simply pressing enter when it asks for the administrative password. BTW, Windows XP will reach EoL for mainstream support during of April 2009, and new security patches will be issued until April 2014. After that date, Windows XP will reach EoL, even though it will remain a perfectly usable OS. It has always been the driving force behind the commercial IT industry, and it will continue to be for the forseeable future.
k-semler said:
It's called "Forced Progress Through Planned Obsolecence". For all intents and purposes Windows 2000 Professional Edition is plenty adequate for today's needs, and XP RTM was just basically W2k SP2+Luna+newer device support. Windows 2000, while perfectly adequate for 99.9% of needs, (OK, no directX 9c or 10.1), has reached EoL, and is no longer supported by MS. Windows XP will soon meet a similar fate, even though it is adequate for most businuss and conusumer needs. I have personally installed XP on a P1 166 o/ced to 200Mhz with 256MB of RAM. It worked fine as a workstation OS on such limited hardware, but forget about gaming. Try to install Vista on a computer with less then a 1Ghz processor and 1GB of RAM, and you're going to be wishing you never heard of Vista. Vista isn't even truly "usable" unless you have a reletivly modern machine. (2.0Ghz+ processor, 2GB+ PC3200 DDR RAM, 7200RPM HDD with at least 30GB available for OS+basic applications.
Yes, I do realize that XP Home was a significant improvment over Win9x; which most consumers were using at that time. Still the jump from Windows 2000 Professional SP2 to Windows XP Professional RTM was a miniscule improvement at best. Heck, Windows XP (even SP1), isn't very secure. All you need is a Win2k installation CD, and you can get administrator access to Windows XP RTM and SP1 just by booting into the recovery console and simply pressing enter when it asks for the administrative password. BTW, Windows XP will reach EoL for mainstream support during of April 2009, and new security patches will be issued until April 2014. After that date, Windows XP will reach EoL, even though it will remain a perfectly usable OS. It has always been the driving force behind the commercial IT industry, and it will continue to be for the forseeable future.
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^ I agree. However this is only after maybe 2 years, maybe, and is only being done out of stubborn greed and douche baggery.
Hi Folks,
just want to inform you about a news over at digitimes saying there will be an official Windows Mobile 6.6 next month. Maybe WM7 is delayed til 2011 due to that development.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20100114PD216.html
same news on German news page:
http://winfuture.de/news,52805.html
The screenshots on the german page makes me think that WM6.6 is what the XDA community is used to called "6.5.3" (28xxx development path).
A big Thanks to the Chefs for the continuing great work!
Future
I cannot belive Microsoft with all its resources cannot launch a proper mobile system. If it weren't for the cooks on this forum we'd be stuck with 'ol boring platform. This wait for WinMo 7 is turning into 'Waiting fof Godot' - and if (and when) it finally arrives it may turn out to be a dud.
It's such a shame to have a device like HD2 with all its technical advances and no platform to properly display all its goodies.
tlerner said:
I cannot belive Microsoft with all its resources cannot launch a proper mobile system. If it weren't for the cooks on this forum we'd be stuck with 'ol boring platform. This wait for WinMo 7 is turning into 'Waiting fof Godot' - and if (and when) it finally arrives it may turn out to be a dud.
It's such a shame to have a device like HD2 with all its technical advances and no platform to properly display all its goodies.
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we should all knew Microsoft is like this..
it looks like its a slightly modified 28014, there are already lots of very good ROMS with this path so we dont really have anything to get excited about i am afraid .
I'm using GRID EVO 1.8 which is very good indeed. Incidentally, I wouldnt get too excited about windows 7 either, we may find this destroys are lowly 528 cpu, we'll probably have to wait for it to be cooked into somethign useable.
Do not have big changes.....just improvement of 6.5
Anybody has idea about which com branch is going to be WM6.6?
Mobile Office 2010 came out of beta in 23518 build. So 235xx is going to be WM6.6?
so this means that new roms will be avaliable with wm6.6? and going to be slightly faster?
Keyboard is nice otherwise I don't see anything that deserving to call it 6.6 just random updates.
I think this is to be expected, really. After playing around iphone and android, you can see every part of the system is designed very well (core, system, interface, flexibility, compatibility). I read some rumors that Microsoft have to go back to the drawing board a bit in order to make wm 7 competitive. And if they can keep improving wm 6.5 or 6.6 to be as close in performance as other systems. They can take their sweet time with wm 7, and it's probably a good thing going into 2012 and onwards.
right well hopefully it runs just as good as 6.5 or better wait for windows 7 that's gonna be something completly different.
Unbelievable... This waiting for the Windows Mobile 7 is becoming a big pain... If we didn't have chefs here at the XDA, we would be still stuck with the old platforms.
I believe that Windows 6.6 is just a slight improvement from the 6.5, but we should be happy that Windows Mobile is improving step by step... I think that in this one we have a slightly faster speed and colored "checking the boxes"...
ladieslova said:
Unbelievable... This waiting for the Windows Mobile 7 is becoming a big pain... If we didn't have chefs here at the XDA, we would be still stuck with the old platforms.
I believe that Windows 6.6 is just a slight improvement from the 6.5, but we should be happy that Windows Mobile is improving step by step... I think that in this one we have a slightly faster speed and colored "checking the boxes"...
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Well, after the Blackstone I don't think I will buy another Windows Mobile until I see what Microsoft does with it. Everything about the iPhone just shines quality and efficiency for example, compared to ours - that's not harsh. It's just a bodge in comparison. Also given that they left us with 6.1, I would have gone mad without the chefs.
My contract runs out in June...
According to Danish PC-Mag "PC World" Windows Mobile 7 will be unveiled next month at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. Hope you guys can wait that long.
Regards
just to clarify, these are still rumours.
wm6.6 is what we have previously been calling 6.5.3
Sillysod said:
Well, after the Blackstone I don't think I will buy another Windows Mobile until I see what Microsoft does with it. Everything about the iPhone just shines quality and efficiency for example, compared to ours - that's not harsh. It's just a bodge in comparison. Also given that they left us with 6.1, I would have gone mad without the chefs.
My contract runs out in June...
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oh come on thats a bit harse, whats on the iphone is very fancy the problem is there isnt a lot on it. Look, Apple from day one have had a luxury of having an OS running on spacific hardware designed to work with it, Windows mobile has essentially run on just about every configuration of hardware in the mobile market you can think of, its the same debate as the desktop market.
two different markets two different designs both very good at what they do, having a windows mobile platform running and looking like an apple is a bit too much like having your cake and eating it and expecting someone else to clean up your mess, what is unexceptable is having hardware that isnt working fully because the chipset makers wont give us the drivers (or HTC wont pay for them) thats not MS fault, MS didnt leave Touch HD users with 6.1 HTC and the networks did.
WinMo is 10 years old and showing its age... it simply can't compete any more.
The only think that keeps most users using it is not the OS itself, but some of the apps for it (Tom Tom, iGO, etc)
Clearly MS have always struggled to accept fundamentals are wrong... they like to have incremental improvements, but really don't like accepting they might have fundamental flaws.
The funtionality of WinMo is actually very good, but the UI has barely changed in the last 10 years... even less so in the last 7... very very poor. Their attempt at 'themes' was pitiful when they came out, let alone now.
MS see it as brand dilution... having someone create a new UI. Sadly, they fail to accept that if they created a high class UI, folks would be less likely to turn to SPB, or HTC to give their phone an (artificial) makeover.
I will stick with WinMo for a while though, but Android is becoming more tempting. Symbian's dead (even though it's 70% market share for open OS devices). iPhone has all the RIGHT attributes for speed and polish, but the real functionality just isn't there.
6.6...Don;t make me laugh. It's just another excuse for MS to delay WM7.
A comparison with the iphone is not fair in terms of dedicated hardware, but it is fair in terms of user experience.
The iphone just works, it's fluid, people who didn;t want or need a smartphone are jumping up and down for an iphone, sales don;t lie.
What MS is doing with WM7 has to be somthing very special indeed to get me to stick with WM and releasing a point upgrade which will change very very little from what we have access to here, is not going to cut the mustard with die hard WM fans.
WM7 has to be nothing short of groundbreaking otherwsie Smartphone manufaturers will just choose, the by then very mature and Free Android.
Logicalstep