Database Develop

iPhone

I appreciate that this is OT but I think that the more we hear about the iPhone the happier we will be with WM6. The latest news is that it will open Word and Excel attachments! More. OMG!!!!

We can all appreciate an off-topic post. Just be sure to always post in the appropriate forum. Thanks!

I would seriously buy the iPhone if I had the money and lived in the US.
http://www.dvdtoiphoneconverter.org/

TaurusBullba said:
We can all appreciate an off-topic post. Just be sure to always post in the appropriate forum. Thanks!
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HAHAHAHA -- your avatar, man. I wonder if there are even 4 people on this entire forum who know what it's from.
Sincerely,
The Terror That Flaps in the Night

bobbyelliott said:
I appreciate that this is OT but I think that the more we hear about the iPhone the happier we will be with WM6. The latest news is that it will open Word and Excel attachments! More. OMG!!!!
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I would be ecstatically happy with WM6 if someone would just come up with a fingertip interface for it that was consistent.
What there needs to be is a new line of WM6 (or WM7, I guess) that supports the current pen-oriented UI as well as a new, sensible touch-oriented UI. I got really excited about the iPhone when I heard about it, as I am a Mac user, but then became profoundly disappointed when I found out that there would be no SDK. As WM developers, we can write just about anything we want for our phones, but iPhone users are restricted to only what Steve Jobs thinks they should be allowed to do. It's incredibly frustrating.

shogunmark said:
that was around me era of being a kid... im a bit suspicious that mike knows what its from considering his a really really really old guy
oh... and BOO iphone... piece of junk... thats my .02
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thats ok.. if he wants to waste $600 USD on a 3 maybe 4 year old technology then thats his choice shogunmark
just because it has a pretty screen doesnt put it even close up against the Hermes, Trinity etc...

pspconverter
Apple doesn’t want to confuse its customers.
http://www.pspconverter.com/iphone_converter/

walshieau said:
thats ok.. if he wants to waste $600 USD on a 3 maybe 4 year old technology then thats his choice shogunmark
just because it has a pretty screen doesnt put it even close up against the Hermes, Trinity etc...
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The HTC Smartphones are hardly cutting edge. 624MHz Xscale? Helloooo, 2004.
We use good products with HTC. The iPhone will be good for a lot of people too; it's not the age of technology, but how it is implemented that counts. I bet the iPhone's camera isn't laggy like the one on my Athena, and it crashes less than my Universal, and doesn't have call/end buttons right under where your fingers are.
There's more to a successful product than just "technology". iPhone isn't for me, I want power and can live with the glitches of WM and HTC devices. There's room in the market for iPhones and Smartphones, and Apple will have done a good job with the user interface and overall usability of the device.

RichardKAthena said:
The HTC Smartphones are hardly cutting edge. 624MHz Xscale? Helloooo, 2004.
We use good products with HTC. The iPhone will be good for a lot of people too; it's not the age of technology, but how it is implemented that counts. I bet the iPhone's camera isn't laggy like the one on my Athena, and it crashes less than my Universal, and doesn't have call/end buttons right under where your fingers are.
There's more to a successful product than just "technology". iPhone isn't for me, I want power and can live with the glitches of WM and HTC devices. There's room in the market for iPhones and Smartphones, and Apple will have done a good job with the user interface and overall usability of the device.
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The difference between a WM device and the iPhone is that you can do pretty much whatever you want with a WM device. With the iPhone you are restricted to what Steve tells you you want.
I have a feeling it's going to stay this way, too. Look at the iPod. Years later the best thing you can do with it is buy games from iTunes.
I hope I'm wrong.

starkruzr said:
Look at the iPod. Years later the best thing you can do with it is buy games from iTunes.
I hope I'm wrong.
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You are.
I mean, just above, you are.
It's an iPod. A portable music player. The best thing you can do with it is play music; which it does very well. Better than any Creative or Sandisk devices I've used, better than every alternative I've tried. The iPod + iTunes combination works a LOT better for organising and accessing your music. I don't care if you can't make it make the tea and access GPS whilst it repairs your car. It is exceptionally good at what it is supposed to do.
Of course, bashing the iPod, or slagging off the as yet unreleased iPhone, is really cool and against the grain. Really helps to understand what you're being negative about, though.
See, I don't think the tech matters one bit, either to the fans or detractors.
The fans expect the iPhone to work brilliantly at being a phone and music player.
The detractors wouldn't care if it had 3.5G, 80GB and cost $5. They just don't like - for whatever reason - seeing Apple (and to be fair, pretty much anyone) be a success.
Go figure. I use and advocate WM devices. I use and advocate iPod. I use Macs and have done for 23 years. I also use Windows, and was quite a fan of Windows 2000 when it came out (and before OS X showed up).
Best tool for the job. Don't care WHO makes it. Apple make some very good stuff, which is why they have a loyal folllowing. Yes, people will buy iPhone because of he hype, but I bet it turns out to be a well designed, functional phone. It'll also be vastly more interesting when it becomes iPhone version 3.

Its not windows users that started the bad mouthing. When Jobs says the open platform of windows is unstable and could bring a network down he is starting it. WM is not unstable. I use it constantly with no problems. There is no way to bring down a phone network with a WM device. The network just plain will not let bad info through. I have tried to mess with everything possible on a wm device connecting to a phone network and it is just not possible to adversely effect it.
People who claim that wm is unstable are the same people installing home made apps of sites like this or downloading cracked software from bittorrent. I have no problem with those things but you get what you pay for.
I also must be heavily anti iphone because I am a developer. Jobs has refused developers access to the iphone. Remember that apple was the company that made developers pay for the privilege to program for the original pda, the Newton. Microsoft let us do it for nothing. Apple is anti me.
I hope the iphone is a failure and it sinks apple or they choose to open it, either way is ok with me.
Your argument about the ipod is less than convincing. This is a world of convergence - life made easier by having everything in one place. If I go by your rational I will need to go back to the days of carrying a separate phone, pda and gps. Apple know that the days of single use devices are comming to an end or they would not be taking this gamble. Its also probably the reason no further development in new video ipods has been seen.

OdeeanRDeathshead said:
Its not windows users that started the bad mouthing. When Jobs says the open platform of windows is unstable and could bring a network down he is starting it.
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What is this, Kindergarten? "He started it!". WM as an open platform IS unstable. Look at the amount of trouble people have with it. Look at the number of newbie posts on here saying they've messed up their handsets. It all depends on your value of "stable".
MS/HTC has absolutely no control over what people put on their handsets. It's great. I love it. I also regularly try apps which utterly break the handset, sometimes ones which SHOULD work, because of the variations in the hardware.
"Could bring a network down" - without context, I can neither agree nor disagree. Supporting the newbies with buggy software, sure. Technology wise? Bollocks. WM devices may be variable "phones", but they do work most of the time.
WM is not unstable. I use it constantly with no problems. There is no way to bring down a phone network with a WM device. The network just plain will not let bad info through. I have tried to mess with everything possible on a wm device connecting to a phone network and it is just not possible to adversely effect it.
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In that context I agree with you.
People who claim that wm is unstable are the same people installing home made apps of sites like this or downloading cracked software from bittorrent. I have no problem with those things but you get what you pay for.
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Or buying CorePlayer and finding it doesn't work correctly, or buying games from the online Handago store and finding they don't handle screen rotation correctly, or buying MS Voice Commander and finding it doesn't correctly replace the phone's own voice tagging applications...
Third party software doesn't have to be "dodgy" to break the handset. Cracked copies of software are frequently fine, likewise, legitimate software can be buggy. It's the fact that the range and variety of devices makes destructive testing near impossible.
Ever used a Palm? Even though the Palm's original OS was small and almost "single platform", I had to reset my Tungsten C constantly, and the Vx I had before that. Inevitably due to third party apps.
Now. I personally WANT the apps. I don't mind rebooting my phone, or having to uninstall something, or make two copies because TomTom can't see voices on the SD card but is slow on Microdrive. I don't mind this, I'm fairly used to it, I like to experiment.
Do I think it's a good user experience. HELL no.
I also must be heavily anti iphone because I am a developer. Jobs has refused developers access to the iphone. Remember that apple was the company that made developers pay for the privilege to program for the original pda, the Newton. Microsoft let us do it for nothing. Apple is anti me.
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Newton failed. And I can hardly call Visual Studio and the CE development kits "free". Trial versions exist, but in a time-limited form.
I hope the iphone is a failure and it sinks apple or they choose to open it, either way is ok with me.
Your argument about the ipod is less than convincing. This is a world of convergence - life made easier by having everything in one place.
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Fine. Make me an Ameo which works reliably, has phone-like battery life, an 80GB HD so it has the capacity of my iPod, is small enough to clip on my shirt like a shuffle, has a 5" screen for watching movies on...
Convergence makes sense to a degree. Devices which do it all are compromised. iPod is an EXCELLENT music player and organiser. I don't want it to be anything else. I don't like the way WM handles files on the Ameo, or any of the alternatives; iTunes is very good at what it does. If my Ameo worked with iTunes - iTunes for Pocket PC, with sync from my desktop library - then I'd perhaps be happier with it. But basically no convergence device does everything well.
Apple will get phone calling and WiFi right. Missing out 3G is stupid and short sighted for a web-phone. But the user interface and build quality will be very suited for the real world applications of the device.
If I go by your rational I will need to go back to the days of carrying a separate phone, pda and gps. Apple know that the days of single use devices are comming to an end or they would not be taking this gamble. Its also probably the reason no further development in new video ipods has been seen.
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Two devices together works well for me. I personally like to see music separate - give me phone/PDA with GPS functions, or GPS/Music together. Phone and PDA functions blur anyway. PDA=contacts, appointments - big ol' Filofax. It's natural to link these.
As for third-party apps on the iPhone, I'm ambivalent. If Apple get it right, it won't need any to speak of. The technology isn't interesting enough to push. I'm more interested in what appears - to all intents and purposes - to be OS X on an ARM device.
An OS X PDA would kick arse, IMO. But then you WOULD need third party apps. OS X on Ameo-like hardware? Bring it on.
About that $950 iPhone. You didn't accept or decline my wager. Chicken? Not so confident that the $950 price is correct?

I've been a Windows developer since 1999 - so I hate Apple (bad developer support, proprietary, apart from osx..) and I will naturally hate the iphone. However the iphone is good for the whole mobiles scene. Shakes it up a bit. All the stuff is gimmicky and fairly useless (examples 1. flipping through 100 albums with your fingers? 2. Drag to unlock that needs two hands, 3. the icons on the today screen showing "you have 2 appointments" ..errr.. when? The screen that will obviously break at the slightest contact with the ground - too close to the edge). The list is really endless. The thing I love best is the keyboard they show to type text messages with - its far too small to use with fingers!! Get a stylus dudes!
iphone is a device for current macintosh customers. In which case they'll sell quite a few! I'm looking forward to seeing one in the flesh and slagging it off, as any self-respecting apple-hater should do!

jellyme said:
I've been a Windows developer since 1999 - so I hate Apple (bad developer support, proprietary, apart from osx..)
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Rapidly increasing market share, opinion formed in 1999 based on Diesel's legacy of frankly outmoded hardware and an operating system that made Windows ME look stable, proprietary "Intel" hardware, OS X /is/ Apple as far as development are concerned, very good developer support now via ADC, tools included with every OS X installation...
The first sign of intelligence is evolution. Sure, feel free to hate Apple (hating a corporation is very smart, after all), but try and do so for the right reasons, before you cut off a large market for your products.

RichardKAthena said:
WM as an open platform IS unstable. Look at the amount of trouble people have with it. Look at the number of newbie posts on here saying they've messed up their handsets. It all depends on your value of "stable".
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Sorry, but I've got to take exception at that statement. To me it reads:-
"windows is an unstable os because - people muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand"
and
"the iPhone will have good os because - people can't muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand, because apple won't let them"
If MS made their ppcs so that the consumers couldn't add programs to it, your argument wouldn't exist.
and how many users (not including people working for the same company) use the exact same setup?

bbobeckyj said:
Sorry, but I've got to take exception at that statement. To me it reads:-
"windows is an unstable os because - people muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand"
and
"the iPhone will have good os because - people can't muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand, because apple won't let them"
If MS made their ppcs so that the consumers couldn't add programs to it, your argument wouldn't exist.
and how many users (not including people working for the same company) use the exact same setup?
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iPhone will not be so locked down that it cannot be personalised. However, you are misinterpreting and misquoting what I said. I don't know how stable the iPhone OS is, and I'm not referring to the stability of the OS.
I'm referring to the stability of the user experience.
Now, my gut feeling (based on the quality of the phone applications in the HTC devices I've used compared to Symbian, SE and Motorola devices) is that in look and feel, user experience and reliability, beating WM would be like shooting fish in a barrel. It works, sure, but it is not pretty, it is not consistent, and it is not reliable. Just witness the caller ID mess on Bluetooth. This isn't a "WM is crap WHAAA" post, it's just an objective observation; you will note that I USE A WM5 AND WM6 DEVICE. By choice. I am aware of the options, and of course I'd like things to be better, but it does the job and the hardware offers a lot of advantages.
Now, if you're really interpreting it the way you say you are, then I suggest you read more closely. I thoroughly expect people to skim the post, see "iPhone good, WM bad", and respond - even though I simply being objective and acknowledging the faults and benefits of BOTH platforms. iPhone is going to succeed, and it's going to do that largely on hype and marketing, but that's not to say that Apple won't have got some things right, because that's what they do. They didn't come to dominate the music player market by producing a product which had all the flaws of the competition with none of the benefits; they polished it and got it right.
HTC make lovely hardware. It runs alright with WM. Give it a better OS and it would be amazing. Is there really any logical reason why the camera on the Ameo is so woefully slow? The call/end buttons on the Universal are positioned RIGHT where your fingers rest if you use it as a phone and have no distinquishing features when not lit? These devices do not have the depth and quality of industrial design that Apple employs in their consumer devices.
What trade do people want to make? Do they want their music library dragged together by Windows Media, including the ringtones it finds on the HD, or do they want iTunes "plug and play" simplicity (and if anyone wants to slag off iTunes, trust me - I have heard all the criticisms before. The ones I'll accept are that it's a bit slow with large libraries, and it doesn't handle a wide range of codecs by default - I've used every device from Archos to Zen and nothing touches an iPod for sheer intuitive behaviour, or iTunes for genuinely maintaining an organised, logical music library).

I will never use itunes because when on it communicates over the internet even if I set it not to. A lot of apps do this of course but with itunes the connectivity is needed so blocking it is not an option. I need to trust that my system is working for me and not apple. If that same problem was on the iphone then because you can't write a firewall for it your privacy is gone.
My employer has over 10000 wm devices and they operate for weeks at a time with no resetting. They get software updates remotely and are mainly used by non technical users. I personaly use these to work with and I have not been able to crash one. We drop them and get them dirty but still they run. Is that unstable.
I would not gamble with you because you seem like a nut to me and I would not want to exchange details with you.
(This post was done using the real keyboard , from a park bench, over 3g, on my dopod 838 pro. Something I will never be able to do with an iphone!)

OdeeanRDeathshead said:
I will never use itunes because when on it communicates over the internet even if I set it not to. A lot of apps do this of course but with itunes the connectivity is needed so blocking it is not an option. I need to trust that my system is working for me and not apple. If that same problem was on the iphone then because you can't write a firewall for it your privacy is gone.
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What absolute, total, drivel. My son uses iTunes on his iMac, has no internet connection whatsoever, and it works perfectly. He can rip CDs, but has to type the track/artist detail in unless it is included (which is very rare), can sync the iPod, etc. He's been doing this for nearly 2 years.
My employer has over 10000 wm devices and they operate for weeks at a time with no resetting. They get software updates remotely and are mainly used by non technical users. I personaly use these to work with and I have not been able to crash one. We drop them and get them dirty but still they run. Is that unstable.
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I'm fully aware that these things are stable. Again, I'm talking about end-user experience. Employers with 10,000 identical devices (I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and say "courier services" or "retail" - something along the lines of Intermec handheld data terminals) will generally have specified the software set on the device, it will be limited, and it will be predictable and tested.
I would not gamble with you because you seem like a nut to me and I would not want to exchange details with you.
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*snorts* Whatever. I like to talk about this stuff seriously, I've been using mobile devices of one form or another since the Tandy 102. You interpret me writing so much about it as being a nut? I interpret it as being the reason I'm paid to review hardware professionally. (I'll post pictures of my latest toys soon, one of them will be very interesting I think).
(This post was done using the real keyboard , from a park bench, over 3g, on my dopod 838 pro. Something I will never be able to do with an iphone!)
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Good for you. Now listen to 7.34GB of music on it for 24 hours without having to recharge. I was posting to Usenet in 1998 from an HP 680LX connected with an Option One GSM datacard; I could make calls on it if I used the wired headset. It's hardly new technology in any sense of the word - each device is merely refining and targeting a specific user base.
This is what you seem to be failing to grasp. iPhone is not inherently bad. It's just not what YOU want. It's not even that expensive; an unsubsidised N73 costs... $500. And it doesn't do many consumer level things that the iPhone does, despite being targeted at that very market.
I may be a nut, but at least I know WTF I'm talking about and don't have an irrational hatred of one company

RichardKAthena said:
It's an iPod. A portable music player. The best thing you can do with it is play music; which it does very well.
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Yes, and the line from iPhone fans about the iPhone is "it's a phone, iPod and breakthrough internet device. The best thing you can do with it make phone calls, play music and use Safari, which it does very well." This is not sufficient for me, for starters. And Steve's explanation of his "sweet solution" for developing "applications" for the iPhone was a joke and an insult to developers.
Apple is telling its customers to pay $500 for a UI. My TYTN can already do everything the iPhone can do, sans the flashy UI, plus MORE -- UMTS/HSDPA, for starters. It can also run any particular binaries you choose to run on it.
Of course, bashing the iPod, or slagging off the as yet unreleased iPhone, is really cool and against the grain. Really helps to understand what you're being negative about, though.
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You think you've got me pegged, but you don't. I am typing this post on my Macbook Pro. For the most part, I love Apple and what they've done with computing. But Steve is taking the company in this "closed device" direction that really, really turns me off. When we were told OS X was essentially UNIX with an Apple GUI, as a geek I got really, really excited, and when I finally got my Mac, Tiger did NOT let me down.
OS X is an excellent example of how the Apple way has, for the last 7 years, been to cater both to nontechnical users and heavily technical users alike. This is what I was expecting from an Apple cell phone. I was, essentially, expecting an OS X PDA phone. This is not AT ALL what we are getting. You can't even cut and paste, ffs!
See, I don't think the tech matters one bit, either to the fans or detractors.
The fans expect the iPhone to work brilliantly at being a phone and music player.
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I'm sure they do. And it will. And all of the enormous hardware potential of the iPhone will be utterly wasted.
The detractors wouldn't care if it had 3.5G, 80GB and cost $5. They just don't like - for whatever reason - seeing Apple (and to be fair, pretty much anyone) be a success.
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Again, you've got me wrong. I don't care about any of that. I would gladly pay $699 for an iPhone that was actually released with an SDK. Why? I want my Terminal. I want my Adium (or something like it). I want ssh, VNC, VLC, Skype, the GNU toolset, and anything else I want, because there is simply no compelling reason to disallow any of it. The only reason any of this is not possible is Apple's incredibly restrictive software, and the only reason Apple's software restrictions exist is AT&T's greed.
I think the iPhone will be enormously successful, but I have serious doubts Apple will ever meet my needs for a smartphone (or the needs of many, many other potential customers out there).

I call you a nut because you are trying to bet me 50 dollars over the details of an unreleased gadget and because you are so emotionally tied to the idea of the iphone that you can't stop.
I was happy to wait and see back on page one but you just can't stop defending a seemingly inferior product that you don't even have.
I don't trust Apple or microsoft. A phone carries a lot of personal information that could be very damaging in the wrong hands. My point about itunes is that with no third party apps, the iphone will not be safe because any program that apple put on it will be free to do what it wants.
Its like Nokia says, "this is what the pc has become". How many people would trust their microsoft onecare more than their norton or other security suit? Now what about trusting security to no one because their won't be any on an iphone. Just look at the 100 plus security bowser problems patched by apple last week. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
The whole discussion is pointless anyway because we do not have one and by next month it will be hacked to run third party apps anyway like apple tv.

Awesome G-Sensor iphone App! Port?

A co-worker bought a iPod Touch and downloaded some freebie games at work. One of which is a sweet game called "Topple" and is pretty simple.
Here is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr7DlMhmLrc
Basically you have your classic tetris pieces but they don't fall down until you grab them. The object of the game is to keep stacking. You move the pieces around with your fingers. They each have their own physics so they "topple" and knock each other down. As the stack gets higher so does the skill level, as the entire stack is motion sensitive using the built in G-Sensor. You have to keep the phone up-right at first but as the tower of blocks gets higher the sway gets worse requiring you to place your pieces and offset the lean.
The goal of the levels is to simply reach a certain height, gaining points for placing blocks. Free Play allows you to build your tower as high as you can. In both game types, you can only allow 4 blocks to fall off to its doom.
The game is addicting and funny. Each block has faces which change depending on their action. As the game progresses and your tower starts to lean, their faces do :O
I searched for a while but don't think this is out on any WM device. I know some of you have lots of G-Sensor tetris clones out there and this might be a neat idea to try out.
Very fun and addicting game.

Geebus, I don't have an iPhone, but looking at all the apps--okay, fine--the games it has, it's like going back to 1987 and comparing the 8 bit NES and its beautiful colors (while I'm kicking butt playing Kung Fu and Duck huntin' all the while pretending R.O.B is Johnny 5) to Atari's pong.
There doesn't seem to be many devs coming over to show off their skills--and if they do--well....pong works great on my Fuze...
I'd be more than happy to pay .99 for a nice and fluid "beer" app...with waves and actual liquid motion...

Sad when you have more games developed for an OS that is a couple years old vs a system that has been out for almost a decade.
I'm still saddened that we don't have better emulator support.
What would be nifty is if they had an iPhone emulator much like the Palm emulators out there. The iPhone doesn't have any graphic acceleration (i don't believe). Aside from the variable screen sizes, one would think it would be do-able.

What would be cool is if there was a conversion kit made for the Fuze/TP/Diamond which made the screen a capacitive screen. (Dreaming )

player911 said:
Sad when you have more games developed for an OS that is a couple years old vs a system that has been out for almost a decade.
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Indeed and I'm still trying to figure that one out. What makes it so hard to develop for WM?

dr g said:
Indeed and I'm still trying to figure that one out. What makes it so hard to develop for WM?
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Make a WM app store: promblem solved
Just think about how much easier it is to get Apps and games on iPhone rather then WM devices
Yes i own both haha

mastanthony89 said:
Make a WM app store: promblem solved
Just think about how much easier it is to get Apps and games on iPhone rather then WM devices
Yes i own both haha
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WM has had plenty of app stores. Handago, etc. Heck Sprint even has a link for an app store which makes it plenty easy. The only problem is, Apple released an SDK that allowed people to make just about anything they wanted and the prices in comparison to the WM apps are waaayy different.
The Apple app store is mostly fun stuff like games and other stuff that's just neat. While, most of the thousands of apps for WM are more business based.
But, IMO it's much easier to download a cab and install it, than the iPhones way of getting apps. Apple, just does such a good job at hyping everything up, that the demand is insane.

I know they have programs to disperse Windows Mobile apps... but it isn't widely known because Microsoft doesn't require EVERYONE to have it like Apple does iTunes (AppStore).
I know they also make a program to install cabs directly to your device when connected through USB (skipping activesync).
Most of the iPhone games look like Flash games that are made into apps. Even the game I posted looks like a flash game.
The AppStore isn't hard to make, but getting it out there is. The best way for a service to get out there would be for a well known Mobile downloading site created a program that used their existing database of programs which allowed installation of demos/trials and a direct method of purchasing retail versions. A site like http://freecabs.org. It has a great database with screen captures and a description, plus all cabs are free to distribute.
The game I posted looks like a simple game that makes use of the gsensor and brings a new twist to tetris-like games.
Windows Mobile will always be suited more towards business while the iPhone has a child-like attractiveness that draws the younger crowd which would gear developers into making programs and games for that class of users.
I'm just sort of "jealous" that a device so new can have so many new games and apps that Windows Mobile doesn't have. It isn't that we can't have these games and apps... just no one has made them. I guess because every iPhone owner can use these games vs only a few people with Touch Pros/Touches/Diamonds/Omnias/etc

i like this topic.. i have/had an iphone but my family now doesnt wanna switch to at&t so i am back with my touch pro typing this on it... i love the ease of the app store.. i mean hell i jailbroke and it had better app distrabution then winmo ... and winmo is a much more open platform.... i think we need an appstore like app with freeware and trial and paid apps on it... you could distrabut it in custom roms because i would put it in mine but idk we need some easier way because im tired of searching google on my phone for a stupid app when it would be so much easier just to have a finger friendly database off a lot of apps and categories and all that good stuff

There are already several "Apple Store" type of products out there. The bad thing is none of them are REQUIRED to get apps so no one really uses them.
Sure the Apple Store is a neat way to find apps... but I just bluetooth the cab file over and install from there.
If your looking for something with descriptions and pics then just about any PocketPC app website will do the job. The only thing different is that they don't install it for you.
Although this thread was on topic of the game Topple... I don't know how it got off topic going from iPhone emulator to Apple Store
[EDIT] Here's what I found doing a simple search: WM App Store = Gecko
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=436127

I rather have an emmulator for iphone Games

You realize what you people ask is next to impossible?
(or are we just daydreaming here and I missed the point?)

Well, again, the thread started around 1 iphone app... but I agree that a "emulator" or a "convertor" would be awesome.
I see lots of PocketPC apps and games get converted to iPhone apps... so why can't it go the other way around.
lots of their games and apps look like Adobe Flash based with G-Sensor support.
NLS-why do you say it is next to impossible. I don't disagree but looking for input.

OK I can tell you a few quick facts.
1) We are NOT sure that iPhone is not accelerated - we just assume because Apple says nothing. All 3D stuff I've seen in iPhone kicks the b*tt of any 3D stuff in WM.
2) The underlying OS in iPhone is (if we believe Apple) a subset of OS X, which as simple as you can make it, it is still a very very complex OS.
3) Multitouch is supported by both OS AND hardware, not a fact in WM... and no you cannot get by without it as many if not all apps do make use of it.
4) WM is not able to emulate really complex devices (and trust me I KNOW about emulation), for example Amiga (PocketUAE attempt SUCKS) or MAME (the last version released was based an a veeeeery old MAME). You have to fight against a non-real-time friendly OS (WM) and a single CPU without real co-processing abilities (and don't tell me about Qualcomm being a quad-core chip because I am laughing).
5) System locks for about EVERYTHING are in place in iPhone (yes even cracked ones) so even a succesful emulator would have VERY hard time tricking the OS that this is a real iPhone platform. Trying to bypass this would be an even greater strain to the already strained system.
...I can go on if needed.
Emulating iPhone with current WM devices is daydreaming.-

NLS said:
OK I can tell you a few quick facts.
1) We are NOT sure that iPhone is not accelerated - we just assume because Apple says nothing. All 3D stuff I've seen in iPhone kicks the b*tt of any 3D stuff in WM.
2) The underlying OS in iPhone is (if we believe Apple) a subset of OS X, which as simple as you can make it, it is still a very very complex OS.
3) Multitouch is supported by both OS AND hardware, not a fact in WM... and no you cannot get by without it as many if not all apps do make use of it.
4) WM is not able to emulate really complex devices (and trust me I KNOW about emulation), for example Amiga (PocketUAE attempt SUCKS) or MAME (the last version released was based an a veeeeery old MAME). You have to fight against a non-real-time friendly OS (WM) and a single CPU without real co-processing abilities (and don't tell me about Qualcomm being a quad-core chip because I am laughing).
5) System locks for about EVERYTHING are in place in iPhone (yes even cracked ones) so even a succesful emulator would have VERY hard time tricking the OS that this is a real iPhone platform. Trying to bypass this would be an even greater strain to the already strained system.
...I can go on if needed.
Emulating iPhone with current WM devices is daydreaming.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.. I mean I know enough to know that WM CANNOT handle an iPhone emulator..
I mean If you have ever used an iphone for even 30 minutes your going to realize that it is a lot more complex then windows mobile even if it doesnt look like it.. I mean its hard enough to make good scrolling on apps like iContact, so try and emulate the whole OS..
I just think WinMo needs to be more FUN rather then work
I mean I am 16 years old and I am trying to make WinMo better with my Touch ROM's even though I have a Touch Pro now to work with too.. But I want to make WinMo more for fun as well as work

NLS said:
OK I can tell you a few quick facts.
1) We are NOT sure that iPhone is not accelerated - we just assume because Apple says nothing. All 3D stuff I've seen in iPhone kicks the b*tt of any 3D stuff in WM.
2) The underlying OS in iPhone is (if we believe Apple) a subset of OS X, which as simple as you can make it, it is still a very very complex OS.
3) Multitouch is supported by both OS AND hardware, not a fact in WM... and no you cannot get by without it as many if not all apps do make use of it.
4) WM is not able to emulate really complex devices (and trust me I KNOW about emulation), for example Amiga (PocketUAE attempt SUCKS) or MAME (the last version released was based an a veeeeery old MAME). You have to fight against a non-real-time friendly OS (WM) and a single CPU without real co-processing abilities (and don't tell me about Qualcomm being a quad-core chip because I am laughing).
5) System locks for about EVERYTHING are in place in iPhone (yes even cracked ones) so even a succesful emulator would have VERY hard time tricking the OS that this is a real iPhone platform. Trying to bypass this would be an even greater strain to the already strained system.
...I can go on if needed.
Emulating iPhone with current WM devices is daydreaming.-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are probably right, but I like discussions. My Axim can emulate a PS1. One would think mobile a phone can emulate another phone... at least SOME of its apps. I've read the specs of the phone and while good for a phone... not every app/game is going to require all the resources.
The Multitouch is a bit of a problem though. Even in the game I posted in the first thread, you need multitouch to "spin" your pieces. This would be might cause problems with the touchscreen (the touchpad is multitouch though).
Most of those games look like flash anyway. If they were... could we port them?
Obviously I don't have an iPhone so I wouldn't know. The goal of this thread was to port a specific game... not create an emulator.

dette said:
I agree.. I mean I know enough to know that WM CANNOT handle an iPhone emulator..
I mean If you have ever used an iphone for even 30 minutes your going to realize that it is a lot more complex then windows mobile even if it doesnt look like it.. I mean its hard enough to make good scrolling on apps like iContact, so try and emulate the whole OS..
I just think WinMo needs to be more FUN rather then work
I mean I am 16 years old and I am trying to make WinMo better with my Touch ROM's even though I have a Touch Pro now to work with too.. But I want to make WinMo more for fun as well as work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get insulted but what do you mean by "work" (in the sense that a Touch Pro is needed to do it) when you are 16?

player911 said:
You are probably right, but I like discussions. My Axim can emulate a PS1. One would think mobile a phone can emulate another phone... at least SOME of its apps. I've read the specs of the phone and while good for a phone... not every app/game is going to require all the resources.
The Multitouch is a bit of a problem though. Even in the game I posted in the first thread, you need multitouch to "spin" your pieces. This would be might cause problems with the touchscreen (the touchpad is multitouch though).
Most of those games look like flash anyway. If they were... could we port them?
Obviously I don't have an iPhone so I wouldn't know. The goal of this thread was to port a specific game... not create an emulator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Port yes. By all means.
First find a way to get in touch with the infamous acceleration that is in Qualcomm chipset.
BTW, iPhone is more complex than PS1.

G-Sensor
I don't think that this app has anything to do with the G sensor, its only using the multitouch function but in WM you can not do this.

mdalacu said:
I don't think that this app has anything to do with the G sensor, its only using the multitouch function but in WM you can not do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if by app you mean the topple game then yes it uses the g-sensor, you can lean the phone left or right to lean the "tower" of blocks to that side to help it from falling. A little level also appears at the bottom of the screen when you do this.
I also agreeing to an extent about the wm not able to fully emulate iphone. I have an iphone and just about every htc device that has a touch screen but the iphone apps rarely use the multi touch and when they do it can easily be replaced with the buttons we have in a way. For example, the multi touch needed to spin the blocks in topple can easily be replaced with the spinning scroll touch on the touch pro which in actuality be a lot easier than the multi touch cause i can never get the damn block the way i want it when i cover most of the screen/block with my hand trying to spin it with 2 fingers and hold the phone at the same time lol
Also, as far as the security on the iphone apps, its not that complex as made. The apps are in *.ipa format which is just a renamed zip file. Rename it to zip and you can extract the pics used (*.png) and the *nib files (interface builder) with that as a stepping stone, the apps can begin to be ported which is stillnot an easy task, thats why its called a stepping stone

Iphone rape?

Is it possible to create an android iphone emulator, like we have wine in linux, and then rape there market place, so that not only do we have all our apps available but all iphone apps as well?

you might wanna look up the abreviation "wine", it stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator, which tries to tell you that wine is not an emulator.
and no, it is not possible. too complicated and not enough computing power.

I laughed at this.

Sounds like this thread should be in a completely different forum/website
I was almost confused as to what the OP was getting at, based purely on your Thread subject title

shokka9 said:
Sounds like this thread should be in a completely different forum/website
I was almost confused as to what the OP was getting at, based purely on your Thread subject title
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that also. everybody tries to use a decent voice around here, and then this.

Maybe make a prayer to the Mobile OS GODS?

Tehmk said:
Maybe make a prayer to the Mobile OS GODS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or sacrifice a virgin (phone)...

Even if this was EVEN possible, Apple's just going to take being raped in the ass? Don't think so.

IMO, the iPhone has an iron clad ass that can't be "raped".
I have a 32gs and just got a Hero...android has alot of catching up to do...
On a side note, Mozilla is releasing "Fennec" which will be available for WM, Android, and the iPhone that will use universal web apps...Thats the only shot at leveling the app store playing field.

Iphone has great media capability, and I admire that but I do like the way I can customise and get apps that are virtually impossible on the Apple store. Android does have catching up but it's seems to be doing that pretty fast.

I can do anything with my 3gs that i could realistically do with my hero...
wifi router, tethering, multitasking (with a much better gui), download torrents, smart dialer, folders, themes, a cracked app store, much more conveinent toggles,mobile terminal, firewall, ad-blocker, flash drive, file explorer, stream media, download youtube vids,etc...there's even a different interface for the homescreen itself available..the only main diff i see is custom roms, which isnt even any kind of set back for the iphone...
A stock iphone really cant be compared to an Android device (especially one with a custom rom)in terms of out-of-the-box-functionality and abilities, but a jailbroken iphone is right on the same playing field from a user standpoint.

Your response is correct, to a point. A jailbroken iphone is a totally different device, I can flawlessly multitask with a beautiful interface, have a flash drive app/very easy ftp access, folders on homescreen, insane themes that change the entire look or even a different homescreens all together (Pogoplank), landscape homescreen, mobile terminal, file explorer,toggles,an "app store" with only cracked apps...blah blah blah..the list goes on and on..
point being is that an out-of-the-box iPhone really cant be compared to an Android device, but once you jail break its a level playing field-from a user stand point.

i said **** in a thread once and got given out to haha you make one called i phone rape and are still going strong... kudos!

civicvx94 said:
IMO, the iPhone has an iron clad ass that can't be "raped".
I have a 32gs and just got a Hero...android has alot of catching up to do...
On a side note, Mozilla is releasing "Fennec" which will be available for WM, Android, and the iPhone that will use universal web apps...Thats the only shot at leveling the app store playing field.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fennec will never be released on the iPhone
Apple never would accept it to the App Store like they did it on Opera

Question From Iphone 4 User

Hello all, Im currently using an Iphone 4, its a great phone, dont get me wrong, but I hate the way apple have such tight control over it. Im looking at buying an HTC HD7, but haven't used the phone yet. Im just really looking advice from anyone who has used at lenght, or has an Iphone 4, and is moving to Windows Phone 7.
Cheers

Having just moved over from an iPhone 4, I'm in a pretty good position to give you some info.
1. Phone itself is great (I found the iPhone4's screen beautiful, but way too small to be practical for my needs)
2. The WP7 interface is MUCH better than the grid on iOS4, especially the LIVE tiles.
3. WP7 is still pretty locked down, but I can see that changing. If you're on a none jailbroken iP4, there's not much difference.
4. App amount seems to be growing by the day, but as this is a fresh OS there's nothing on it yet compared to the IP4. However, the apps that are on WP7 are awesome. The Facebook app is the best Facebook app on any phone I've used.
5. The execution and intergration of facebook, LIVE, Messenger etc is VERY well done on this phone. If you are a social person, you'll love it.
6. There are some limitations, some of which are annoying and will take some adapting.
Overall, I think the OS-side of things is superior to an untouched iP4's iOS4. It does need work, but the foundations are solid. Apps will come (Especially with the Dev budget MS has thrown at the WP7 platform)
As with all early adapters, you'll experience some frustrating times and a lack of features, so it depends what you're after really.

Thanks for the super fast reply. What are the limitations you talk about? I find the Iphone a Cr&p phone, but pretty good for internet surfing, that is what I do mostly, with a little bit of angry birds thrown in for good measure. The only other program use a lot is Nike plus for tracking runs, but I suppose it didnt take long for Android to have something similar, so I imagine Windows phone 7 will have a similar app soon.

JamDonot said:
Thanks for the super fast reply. What are the limitations you talk about? I find the Iphone a Cr&p phone, but pretty good for internet surfing, that is what I do mostly, with a little bit of angry birds thrown in for good measure. The only other program use a lot is Nike plus for tracking runs, but I suppose it didnt take long for Android to have something similar, so I imagine Windows phone 7 will have a similar app soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My surfing experience so far has been good. Again, there's no flash or silverlight yet and a lack of HTML 5. However, Adobe have confirmed Flash is coming for WP7, we just need an official statement from MS now....I'm predicting it will be in the Jan 2011 update along with Copy & paste.
Like I say, the apps are popping up fairly quickly to say the least. If you like the occassional game, the HD7 screen real-estate is a big plus there. The quality of the games on WP7 looks very promising indeed (In my opinion, better than iP4 games, and this is Dev's first releases!)
Rovio will no doubt release Angry birds on the platform as well.
As for the tracker, I haven't seen one in the marketplace as of yet, but that's because I've been messing around too much with the Xbox LIVE games

Microsoft don't seem to be as controlling as Apple and so within a few updates you should be more free than if you were using an iPhone.
The fact that HTC & Samsung are making the phones is always a plus as then you have a choice instead of having to pick from one phone.

Defo think im going to give the HTC HD7 a go. Worst case scenario I buy a Ipod touch to use the stuff I was used to. I always adapt early, just sometimes I get frustrated with slow progress. Hope the microsoft app store doesnt go like the palm pre did thought.

How is the screen in comparison ? I am hoping its better than the Evos. I know it won't be as nice as the Vibrants just dont want the washed look.

risq said:
My surfing experience so far has been good. Again, there's no flash or silverlight yet and a lack of HTML 5. However, Adobe have confirmed Flash is coming for WP7, we just need an official statement from MS now....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How MS is going to allow flash when they moved away from ActiveX, and I haven't heard they would want to introduce it - it is by far the easiest transport to deliver spyware, malware and viruses to your device.

Xbox Live games - Everyone's first impressions?

So I'm sure almost all of you were dying to try out some of these Xbox Live games MS has been boasting about for months. And now that we have them a seclection of launch titles at our fingertips I'm curious what everyone besides me thinks of them so far?
I personally downloaded each one as a trial first to get a sense of how the presentation of these games were, how responsive and intuitive the controls were and if they were really worth the $5-7 price tag.
In the end I removed a few and kept a handful which I felt were my best choices overall.
I selected my top choices as:
- de Blob Revolution
- Flight Control
- Max & The Magic Marker
- MONOPOLY
- Need for Speed Underground
- Rocket Riot
- The Harvest
- Twin Blades
- Unite (best free game)
Now I will say some of the games appear to be just ports from other phones, some appear to have slightly improved graphics while some seem the same as their HD2 version (Monopoly & Sims 3). I found the best looking games in the marketplace to be de Blob Revolution, Max & The Magic Marker and Rocket Riot. Twin Blades is great too but looks a little dull almost as if it's not meant to be played at 480x800.
What do you all think so far? Do you think the early batch of released games is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the quality of games we'll be seeing or do you all think we're seeing the full potential of what it's capable of?
I am in no ways a fan on the iPhone but will say that in comparison of quality of games on the iOS they have some pretty ridiculous games. If anyone has seen the build quality of Rage HD on iPhone it makes me cross my fingers that WP7 is capable of the same if not better.
However I've seen screen shots and footage of the upcoming game Ilomilo and it looks like it should show some better potential for much better looking games.

I wish they would make monopoly free.
However, with Xbox Live coming to our smartphones now, the possibilities are endless, especially with WP7. So I think games like Assassins Creed and Need for Speed make other platforms look so outdated.
In recent news, I heard Google Android is getting a bit intimidated by the WP7 update coming in January.
WP7 FOR LYFE!!!!!
WE BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Multiplayer support, MS needs it now. I am not asking for anything real time but games like UNO or Monopoly should at least have turn by turn multiplayer. I feel that a platform based on XBOX Live should at the minimum have turn by turn.

I agree with you both. Other OS's are looking outdated (except for the iOS).. However I'm hoping that WP7 will be able to compete soon with the visual quality of iOS games. I don't know if it's hardware limitations that's holding WP7 back on this one but they need to step it up to truly compete.
And yes MS does need to impliment true XBOX Live multiplayer into their games ASAP. I recalled the iOS having some games that you could actually play multiplayer via bluetooth I believe. I mean if you can do it on the PSP you should be able to do it here. Local multiplayer via wi-fi, turn based on the same device is mandatory, and even some other kind of true Xbox Live experience is a must.

pistol44 said:
I agree with you both. Other OS's are looking outdated (except for the iOS).. However I'm hoping that WP7 will be able to compete soon with the visual quality of iOS games. I don't know if it's hardware limitations that's holding WP7 back on this one but they need to step it up to truly compete.
And yes MS does need to impliment true XBOX Live multiplayer into their games ASAP. I recalled the iOS having some games that you could actually play multiplayer via bluetooth I believe. I mean if you can do it on the PSP you should be able to do it here. Local multiplayer via wi-fi, turn based on the same device is mandatory, and even some other kind of true Xbox Live experience is a must.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it is currently their claim to fame, I would at least like to see it used. As far as visual quality check out ilomilo. These phones can pump out some nice graphics but its up to us to make this platform successful enough to pull in these developers.

I believe most of these developers already recognize the ease of use as far as developing games and apps for wp7. In a recent article, developers voiced out about wp7's flexibility and how using VB has made it very easy for them to build and deploy apps.
And BTW, there are compatibility issues using VB 2010 for development. You have the option to build your own app.

I love oregon trail

we need xbox live service in malaysia...

carmeng4evr said:
I love oregon trail
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you know where it is, I can't find it in the marketplace?
Thanks
Dave

DaveShaw said:
Do you know where it is, I can't find it in the marketplace?
Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it's not available in your region. I'm in Canada and it's one of the 1st games that show up in the Xbox Marketplace.

Other OS look outdated? Android has the same assassins creed HD and has for months and has a beta port of rage HD up that easily rivals iOS. I have an HD7 and love the phone and cant wait for it to evolve in terms of games but if you think this is top-o-the line stuff then you're in for a pleasant suprise when they decide to catch up

z33dev33l said:
Other OS look outdated? Android has the same assassins creed HD and has for months and has a beta port of rage HD up that easily rivals iOS. I have an HD7 and love the phone and cant wait for it to evolve in terms of games but if you think this is top-o-the line stuff then you're in for a pleasant suprise when they decide to catch up
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, didn't know they had Rage HD for Android or that it was capable of a game like that..

strictly beta for the time being but I've seen it played on a captivate firsthand and its epic... In all actuality theres a few android phones that just kick the iphones hardware in the teeth. Itards just wont admit that we got something better at a lower price...

pistol44 said:
Maybe it's not available in your region. I'm in Canada and it's one of the 1st games that show up in the Xbox Marketplace.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guess not
Thanks anyhow

DaveShaw said:
Do you know where it is, I can't find it in the marketplace?
Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, i am in the US.
I just type in Oregon trail and it shows up.
Isn't it true that some American Apps dont show up in other regions(kind of like how some Apps for Android only work for US support)

carmeng4evr said:
Yeah, i am in the US.
I just type in Oregon trail and it shows up.
Isn't it true that some American Apps dont show up in other regions(kind of like how some Apps for Android only work for US support)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True it is Just like AT&T users get a free download of that great looking game Ilomilo and it only shows up in their marketplace but if others look for it there's nothing there.
I think there's a way to trick your phone and change regions to access apps from other countries by changing the country under Settings then Region and Language. But I could be wrong..

pistol44 said:
True it is Just like AT&T users get a free download of that great looking game Ilomilo and it only shows up in their marketplace but if others look for it there's nothing there.
I think there's a way to trick your phone and change regions to access apps from other countries by changing the country under Settings then Region and Language. But I could be wrong..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear you on Ilomilo, I remembering emailing the devs before launch and asking them whether the app was going to be exclusive to at&t phones only or time exclusive and was told no. Then a few days later their site says its a timed exclusive. I was pretty peed off, he was nice about it and said he didn't know until last minute. Such a lovely game though.