Sometimes 2 pictures can tell a story better than 1000 words. What is wrong with one of these 2 pictures?
DEATH WISH / Link
vs.
ON-A-ROLL / Link
Is the MS strategy so secret and mind boggling that I am simply not smart enough to comprehend its brilliance? Or is there a wattage problem in MS's Board Room?
.
.
I can live with it adding $20 to the cost of a device. There are also things like TCO or similar that apply to a manufacturer and in turn to a customer.
The answer is yes. He is most definitely retarded.
Fact is that wimo could NEVER have been considered successful. Mostly because it is a piece of trash. Charging more [than nothing] for it is suicide -- especially when you compare it to the in-every-conceivable-way superior ANDROID, which is free.
I actually quite like their strategy of shooting themselves in the head. It means that they will die off faster.
Alright, let's do a recap:
-Android is 100% free, WinMo is not
-They are about to charge CARRIERS, so say goodbye to unlocked phones
-It's Windows Mobile, so say goodbye to Google services. If you like Bing, Windows Live and the rest, good for you, but most of us don't.
He is to Microsoft what Bush was to the US. He is arrogant, generally misoriented and strengthen the opinion the public has about Microsoft.
N1c0_ds said:
Alright, let's do a recap:He is to Microsoft what Bush was to the US. He is arrogant, generally misoriented and strengthen the opinion the public has about Microsoft.
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Wow, this is quite apt, and yet I have never made the connection before. Now that you've made it for me, there are thousands of 1:1 analogies that flow like a rain-flooded river out of my head.
His "Mission Accomplished" was his laughing off the iphone. That was the beginning of the end of staying relevant. Now, 3-4 years later, he's introducing his own iphone, but with one very clever and extremely significant difference:
He's calling his Windows Phone.
Ballmer has been blowing it for years! That's why XDA thrives fixing his OS and why Adroid is on the fast track.
I had 3 WinMo phones before my Hero and I thought it was amazing, I was really reluctant to switch to Android, and after using Android for 1 day I'm pretty sure I'll never use WinMo again. If someone paid me $100 to use WinMo instead of Android, I wouldn't; so asking people to pay THEM to use WinMo is just stupid.
It really starts to come down to the essence of this site
rpimps said:
I had 3 WinMo phones before my Hero and I thought it was amazing, I was really reluctant to switch to Android, and after using Android for 1 day I'm pretty sure I'll never use WinMo again. If someone paid me $100 to use WinMo instead of Android, I wouldn't; so asking people to pay THEM to use WinMo is just stupid.
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This is my exact experience. It isn't a punitive view. It has nothing to do with loyalty/disloyalty, or "they're late to delivering their new OS, so I will punish them by not using it". This has everything to do with how good the combination of HTC + Android is. There is not one thing I long for, there is nothing at all that I am missing using my HTC Hero running Android. HTC's SenseUI on top of Android (which i had never run before, nor even tried before, deciding I wanted to buy the Hero) works so beautifully right out of the box, and the Android market is filled with apps & utilities that make the device's functionality even greater.
I spent over 3 years here, a whole year before even registering, just to help make my T-Mobile MDA device useful to me.
I am saying this: Before my first touchscreen device, I had a very reliable Samsung clamshell device... Being very careful, while in the car I could hit a speed dial and get someone on the phone, activate speakerphone etc., and when the call was done, bullet-proof step to end the cal;. I could feel it in my fingers.
Entering the world of touchscreens, of which I am such a huge champion I have created an awards series in support of, I quickly discovered, to my immediate dismay, "I can't even make a phone call without having this screen up to my face"... But worse, put it in my pocket and for a year my friends are all angry "why do you keep calling me?". Try to get the phone OUT of my pocket to answer a call before it goes to voicemail, 9 times out of ten a touchscreen area gets pushed and call is lost.
Then the tiny tiny keyboard you use reading glasses to see so you can poke that stylus precisely... I was wondering, "what have I traded away for a screen that can browse the web?"
Again, 4 years ago, thankfully one T-mobile store salesperson in San Francisco told me about this site, kind of in hushed tones while inside the store as employee. When I first came here, like with many folks, it was an intimidating jungle, with caution signs everywhere: "READ THIS FIRST" "DON'T POST WITHOUT SEARCHING". I would finally come to what I thought would be straight-forward set of instructions: "A Newbie's Guide to Upgrading your T-Mobile MDA", only to encounter in the very first sentence "Make sure your phone ist HARD-SPL'd or you'll brick it"... "HARD SPL? What does THAT mean?" It took me well over 6 months, back then, to stop-and-go, stop-and-go-back, just then searching for "what is HARD SPL?" only to come to yet another thread saying stuff like "To make sure your device is capable of HARD SPL, it must be all ROMS after 63i850db247, not before or you'll brick your phone"... Read 100's of pages of thread and not one post saying "Yes, your MDA is fine for Hard-SPL". On and on it went til finally, after being slapped down a few times for asking questions (they would link me back to the very threads I already had plowed through), I got some help to get me started.
And THAT day began the pursuit toward USEFULNESS OF USING MY PHONE.
Admit it, more than 3/4 of this site has always been about compensating for what may have been a very fine underlying OS, but a terrible, terrible unfriendly user experience. I upgraded to the T-Mobile Wing before the iPhone came out and was finally at the spot where XDA-devs had created 1000 workarounds for those tiny menus you have to hold up to your face to see... They stripped out the inefficiencies of various WM software, and suddenly I could multi-task keeping Google Maps aways open, with contacts open, notes, music player, ans various utilities. Finally, for me, after 3 years I had a USEABLE PHONE that matched the promise of the ads and marketing.
In almost all cases, XDA-devs were generally NOT exploiting some fabulously smart feature of WindowsMobile, and making it better. They were taking poorly-thought out functionality and terrible UI, and adapting it to become useful. And when the iphone hit, then the paradigm of finger-based navigation changed everything, and XDA-devs created UIs that replicated the easier to "hit" target zones of the iphone interface. Lots of 3rd party shells, etc... But almost ALL of this was to correct deficiencies due to handicaps of what was core Windows Mobile. Still, to this day, people like Supbro, developer of iDialer, and his branch of iContact, have been correcting the stupidity of tiny text for adding a new contact.
I'm just saying: Here I am 4 years later, having had amazing functionality delivered to me thanks to great chefs here, great app & utility developers, and, let's all face it, GREAT ROMS from HTC which were broken apart to extract and enable yet MORE compensating UI fixes (like TouchFlo), all to FIX and mask over the terrible user experience of Windows Mobile.
THUS, when I got my Hero, and began to use it, and from DAY 1, it just works, and it's easy and intuitive, and with all these great widgets and real-time display updates, I realized even more: JEEZ! Finally an OS that is smarter out the gate. Yet Windows STILL had a year to come in and show the marketplace it had learned a thing or two, after the G1 introduced the world to Android. And all they could burp out, with all their resources and skilled engineers, was windows 6.5? And they had to even quickly abandon their explicit HONEYCOMB Ui after it was immediately, and rightfully ridiculed as
"THIS is your new thinking, Microsoft? Your honeycomb staggered alignment, and your start button at bottom center. THIS IS IT??"
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So Ballmer 6-9 months ago "gets religion" and admits (in that infamous private meeting widely reported throughout cellphone land) his whole company should have focused on WM7, and not gone down the 6.5 path, because they were already so behind their new-found competitors... And there was a HOPE, a spark, an ember left, that said, OKAY, MS has HUGE resources and money... so if they tackle this well, they could well turn everything around. But that delivery date for WM 7 was FEBRUARY 2010. Meanwhile many companies moved forward: Google, Motorola, HTC and we saw October, November, December just POUND the marketplace with success after success of Android products, coupled with HTC and Motorola keeping the competitive spirit alive which drives innovation.
JANUARY 2010, and Google comes out with NEXUS ONE --- full of problems, including Google's total fumble with the whole concept of "dealing with customers"... and HTC has had their Snapdragon-processor phone lines well in development as well... And now they've got phones in the marketplace right now much better than the Nexus One, with a new optical trackball, and other usability advances.
And so here we are in February 2010, the very time at which WM 7 was set to be IN THE MARKETPLACE wowing us with what we all hoped would be something re-invented, reviving their tattered brand. And now it's September 2010? Who here believes they'll make THAT date? But great, a little tease at a Mobile World Congress revives some hope that it will all be worth it.
That's 7 months from now! We will surely see in that time a whole new iteration of iPhone OS software. And who knows what from Android?
So I come not to bash Ballmer, but to question his brain-function. With all these deficits working against MS's comeback, he has the audacity to play chess with the marketplace and proclaim there will be add-on carrier fees for his company's new WM7 OS phones? I really meant it literally. Does this man have a screw loose?
Sorry for the BOOK length post, but for anyone reading it, tell me where I'm wrong?
XDA-devs SAVED THEIR ASSES for the past 3 years -- by enabling their crippled OS to do tricks that satisfied customer demand. And now that I bought the Hero -- because I liked what I saw -- and have used it for 4 months, I just don't see the point in wondering "what will WM 7 really be like?" -- because once I made that leap, I'm no longer dealing with 3/4 of the efforts of this great site devoted to COMPENSATION for what WM lacked. Maybe there are people with great sentimental ties to WM -- because naturally after working one's asses off to build off of it, and create great useful software products, features and utilities, there would be a lot of cognitive dissonance at play when contemplating where to continue your development efforts going forward.
And there IS sentimentalism that drives quite a bit of WM enthusiasm. ANd that's fine. But here I am 4 months into using my HERO, and I have yet to even feel the need to come here and root my phone and make it EVEN BETTER. I will, for sure... But I haven't needed to. It's all frosting or gravy for something that inherently works AS SHIPPED.
So that's my rationale. rpimps' prior post just flushed this essay out of me... yet what he's said in 2 sentences summarizes everything I just typed.
Choice is good. And for everyone who wants to stick with WM, I am sure there will be plenty of fruits to bare. But meanwhile I *use* my phone and depend on it right now, not 7 months from now. I'm not looking back.
galaxys said:
That's why XDA thrives fixing his OS.
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And that really is the summary statement about the genesis of and incredible growth of this great site.
If they want to sell WM they need to make it exactly the same as Android, and make a long press on the Home button bring up the usual WM task list to switch between running apps. I'd buy that.
I'm starting to get pretty sick of all this love for Android and how anything Android will blow WP7 out of the water. All this love for a dumbed-down smartphone. None of us have seen WP7, except for a few screenshots here and there and in my opinion it looks great. MS had to make some changes if they wanted to stay relevant, because what we forget is that the "power-users" make up a very small percentage of the buyers market. However, I really do hope that MS does not forget about us all together. All I know is that come December, I'll be rocking the new WP7 and not an Android. Theres my 2 cents.
Irishpride said:
I'm starting to get pretty sick of all this love for Android and how anything Android will blow WP7 out of the water. All this love for a dumbed-down smartphone. None of us have seen WP7, except for a few screenshots here and there and in my opinion it looks great. MS had to make some changes if they wanted to stay relevant, because what we forget is that the "power-users" make up a very small percentage of the buyers market. However, I really do hope that MS does not forget about us all together. All I know is that come December, I'll be rocking the new WP7 and not an Android. Theres my 2 cents.
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This is an actual question, not an argument - what are some things WM can do that Android can't? I use my phone for business functionality and I don't consider myself a member of the "general public" and switching to Android after 3 WM phones, I haven't found a single thing (aside from maybe quicker switching between running apps) WM did that Android doesn't.
Steve Balmber retarded?
Hmmmmmm
Limited vocabulary
Edit: WTF!?
He's bat**** effing insane! Thanks for sharing
You guys are jumping the gun on this. At least wait and see how things go before you saying game over for WM and jump ship.
Do you guys ***** that the desktop or laptop or netbook you just purchased cost you $25-50 more because it is running Windows7 compared to Ubuntu or another Linux build? No way!
So why are you going to moan about a measily ~$10 fee on your phone for running WM7. Heck you can probably run a dual boot setup on your WM7 phone to run both Windows and Android to experience the best of both worlds...just like some of us have done with our computers.
Related
I'm looking for the one (or better more than 1) app that will kick all the surrounding iphone addicts and will get them to see that the kaiser is not failing even with graphics and interface. I think that a game that takes the graphics to the the limit will do the job - any suggestions?
You don't need any software to do that; it already does.
iPhone users can't figure out how to use these types of phones, you need to be intelligent too, and, well, Apple users really aren't that intelligent...
The Iphone is sooo cute.......It's amazing how impressed people get with what are nothing but a bunch of shortcuts on the phone, You can't do everything you can on WM
If you are looking to get justification from me (or someone else) about the $$ you spent on the kaiser (vs. iphone), then you obviously missed the point.
p.s. you probably should have just asked what the best software was--instead of "why is my 1 year old phone better than the iphone"
p.p.s. maybe you should have bought an iphone. you might be one of the people Squeaky369 was talking about.
...of course, it sounds like he's trying to justify the kaiser also.
Here's my $0.02:
I used to only own sony ericsson phones. until I bought an Audiovox SMT5600. cool phone, but it just needed a "insert newest feature here," to be perfect. Then the next HTC phone came out, and, viola! I bought that one. fast forward through 6 HTC phones in as ~4 years.
I like them because they have great support by the folks here at xda-developers. THAT's enough for me. Customer support, only provided by people who actually care, the customer.
to sum it all up, the kaiser is only a good phone because of this website.
Squeaky369 said:
You don't need any software to do that; it already does.
iPhone users can't figure out how to use these types of phones, you need to be intelligent too, and, well, Apple users really aren't that intelligent...
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Well, that's the the hardest point: make the non intelligent understand that they are such.
pingels said:
If you are looking to get justification from me (or someone else) about the $$ you spent on the kaiser (vs. iphone), then you obviously missed the point.
p.s. you probably should have just asked what the best software was--instead of "why is my 1 year old phone better than the iphone"
p.p.s. maybe you should have bought an iphone. you might be one of the people Squeaky369 was talking about.
...of course, it sounds like he's trying to justify the kaiser also.
Here's my $0.02:
I used to only own sony ericsson phones. until I bought an Audiovox SMT5600. cool phone, but it just needed a "insert newest feature here," to be perfect. Then the next HTC phone came out, and, viola! I bought that one. fast forward through 6 HTC phones in as ~4 years.
I like them because they have great support by the folks here at xda-developers. THAT's enough for me. Customer support, only provided by people who actually care, the customer.
to sum it all up, the kaiser is only a good phone because of this website.
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Click to collapse
You totally missed me: If I could get iphone for $100 less than what i have payed for my kaiser (and maybe I could - i just didnt look for) I would never got an apple,
I am more than proud to have my kaiser and I bought it after reading this website for long time and understanding that powerful machine with power web support is what I need. for me the apple is like a toy for spoiled users, but I do find myself many times trying to justify my choice.
udi1 said:
I'm looking for the one (or better more than 1) app that will kick all the surrounding iphone addicts and will get them to see that the kaiser is not failing even with graphics and interface. I think that a game that takes the graphics to the the limit will do the job - any suggestions?
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Click to collapse
Anywho, Skyfire. Nuff said. Load it up enabled HSDPA on your phone and head to anysite playing video. I watched that new Chris Rock special on my phone today at work, had the entire crew laughing.
when sanchez get his program out, then you can show them your phone can do everything the iphone does. just showing how customizable it is should do the trick
c'mon man...you already got them with copy and paste!
udi1 said:
I'm looking for the one (or better more than 1) app that will kick all the surrounding iphone addicts and will get them to see that the kaiser is not failing even with graphics and interface. I think that a game that takes the graphics to the the limit will do the job - any suggestions?
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Click to collapse
dude, you don't need any special application. just copy and paste and they'll run off crying like little girls
Just show them a cursory list of WM apps/games available for the TyTN II and that'll scare them sh*tless!!!! Nevermind the Java stuff too.
Just show them how customisable the TyTN II is also,
and and and and and...the list is almost endles!!!
I have a thread here somewhere where I had a device shoot-out with a colleague a few months back. He has (had now hehehehehe) an Apple iPhoney and I have my TyTN II....he ran for the hills dude!!!!!!!!
Show them Manila 2D
I wowed an iPhone user when I showed them my tilt with M2D running. What's up with youtube on iPhone looking like crap? LOL
kaiser VS. iphone
hey.
no dought. iphone is like a simple video game, and kaiser is like a small computer with all the posebilities-just think of one...
in every compresion i read, the kaiser took the iphone by far.
be proud to have a kaiser. a fantastic machine indeed. let the childrens play with their iphones
Are you expecting somebody to say "there was a guy with an iphone, and i pulled out my kaiser and showed him my latest program. his girlfriend left him for me and gave me a lot of money. then i asked him about copying and pasting and he grabbed his groin because my metaphorical kick actually caused him pain."
Funny, cbass.
No, but there is a joy to all of this. It's not about who's swinging the bigger stick. It's just that some iPhone owners are so ridiculous about their phones (while most of the iPhone owners I know already have either broken the screen or just traded them in.)
A buddy of mine lives 3000 miles away. I called him up to let him know I was visiting. Knowing he's a gadget geek, I asked if he had the new 3G iPhone. He did. He asked if I had it. I said "No, I bought the Tilt." He laughed and told me about three coworkers who bought Tilts and hated them. How ugly the screens were. How impractical. I kept my mouth shut knowing I had just put TouchFlo 2d on the Tilt and wanted to wait for him to see it in person. Now I have a buddy who is pissed he bought an iPhone.
P.S. I don't know where you guys bought your Kaisers. I bought mine from AT&T (refurbished, not that you could tell) for $150.
A horse that had just purchased an iPhone walked into a bar...bartender asked, "Why the long face?"
Thank you, thank you...
Just go to an iPhone owner, put your tilt up to their face, and ask, "Can your fancy phone DO THIS!!!" as you slide out the keyboard to the transformers sound they will have no other choice but to rip their garment apart and gnash their teeth in repentance...
This is the funniest thread ever!
deymayor said:
This is the funniest thread ever!
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iphone killer thread... should be stickied!!
No offense, but there is no comparison
I'm not saying iPhone is better, but that there really is no comparison.
The point of the iPhone is to be slick, simple, and easy to use. According to the vast user community, it meets those objectives. My VP buddy has the iPhone and so do most of the execs at our company now. The reason they like it is that it just "does what they want", and nothing more.
I tell the 1st buddy I mentioned about all the cool things my phone does, and he says "I don't need that". End of argument. I ask if this or that on the iPhone is configurable. He doesn't want to configure it.
When asked about the user interface, he says "They nailed it", meaning it is perfect. He doesn't need a slide-out keyboard, because the on-screen keyboard works just fine for him. No... He probably can't type as fast as I can on the Tilt, but he says "I don't need to type fast".
So there it is: The iPhone community (and it is growing) are guys that are not stupid.. their world just does not revolve around their phone as ours does. It isn't a toy to make better -- it is a tool.
An iPhone killer is a stripped down, simple, rudimentary version of the software I have now. It is so stripped down that it probably works a bit more reliably and a bit more spritely in responding to commands. It also has one more feature -- consistency of user interface. It can't "dump to the same old e-mail interface" when you just came off the slick screen. It still has to zoom and flip and do all that. iFonz was close, but the version I used wasn't very fast on the Kaiser. And to me (I'm one of you -- make no mistake) it didn't do all I wanted! (so I have to disqualify myself on that point... )
Someone should make that slick simple phone -- oh, they do --- but we wouldn't like it...
So it is about market. In my opinion, Apple knows how to mass market to people -- not engineers -- and HTC and MS know how to market to engineers. Unfortunately, people outnumber engineers by a considerable margin.
esnyder58 said:
I'm not saying iPhone is better, but that there really is no comparison.
The point of the iPhone is to be slick, simple, and easy to use. According to the vast user community, it meets those objectives. My VP buddy has the iPhone and so do most of the execs at our company now. The reason they like it is that it just "does what they want", and nothing more.
I tell the 1st buddy I mentioned about all the cool things my phone does, and he says "I don't need that". End of argument. I ask if this or that on the iPhone is configurable. He doesn't want to configure it.
When asked about the user interface, he says "They nailed it", meaning it is perfect. He doesn't need a slide-out keyboard, because the on-screen keyboard works just fine for him. No... He probably can't type as fast as I can on the Tilt, but he says "I don't need to type fast".
So there it is: The iPhone community (and it is growing) are guys that are not stupid.. their world just does not revolve around their phone as ours does. It isn't a toy to make better -- it is a tool.
An iPhone killer is a stripped down, simple, rudimentary version of the software I have now. It is so stripped down that it probably works a bit more reliably and a bit more spritely in responding to commands. It also has one more feature -- consistency of user interface. It can't "dump to the same old e-mail interface" when you just came off the slick screen. It still has to zoom and flip and do all that. iFonz was close, but the version I used wasn't very fast on the Kaiser. And to me (I'm one of you -- make no mistake) it didn't do all I wanted! (so I have to disqualify myself on that point... )
Someone should make that slick simple phone -- oh, they do --- but we wouldn't like it...
So it is about market. In my opinion, Apple knows how to mass market to people -- not engineers -- and HTC and MS know how to market to engineers. Unfortunately, people outnumber engineers by a considerable margin.
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Actually alot of them do revolve around there phones..... they are materialistic about it alot of times. if apple can put their name on it they will buy it.
I would have to say it is a opinion though. just over a year ago people were amazed when i had a phone with a touch screen. now they don't hardly make phones without them. People are used to having a phone that did only the basic functions and anything more than that is over whelming to them to have much more than simple.
Reguardless it really is an inteligence thing. people are intimidated by carrying around a computer in their pocket and yet i can tell them they are amazed everytme they see my phone after i have flashed a new rom "its like a having a new phone everytime" I've actually talked about 10 different people into gettng this phone in the last 6 months reguardsless that its "death" is schedulled at the end of this year. I'm maitaing a fleet of kaisers and training windows mobile users. They all were confused when they got them but about all you have to say is it runs just like windows and all the sudden it gets easier and easier.......
One thing i can say is noone i have ever talked to after i show them around to all the things they can do and how to use them have ever gone, "damn i shouldn't have gotten this phone." they all go off to flaunt it to their iphone friends.
EDIT: I changed my mind, if someone provides me a working iphone ROM for the touch pro 2, I'll give you $1000. If you want details of what I want, I'll give them but it would require the ability to sync with itunes, all sprint cdma radios to work, wifi, bluetooth, 3g, usb, internet tethering, text messaging, basically, a 99% working ROM. I know the money isn't much but that's about how much an iphone would be worth to me.
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
ChristopherJLee said:
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
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Click to collapse
There are sooooo many reasons this can't and won't happen. Where shall I start? The vastly different screen resolution? The completely different hardware which has absolutely no support? The bootloader? Or maybe the fact it's closed source, and thus can't easily (if at all) be modified to the point where it runs on our devices? (There probably isn't even a HAL, or only a minimal one at best). Maybe the fact that there would be lawsuits up the a** from Apple if this ever happened, not 6-digit salaries and job opportunities. I personally would rather see developers devoting time to creating a fully, working port of Linux than a half-a**ed iPhone OS port which doesn't boot into a GUI or even a console (if it boots at all), and doesn't even support basic elements of iPhone OS like multi-touch and synchronization. This idea has been suggested over the years quite a few times, and it's never gotten anywhere because there are so many things working against it.
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project. Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day. Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive. Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree, the shortage is not from lack of talented developers who can port operating systems, it's that some of the talented developers don't have the motivation to do it. i'm hoping that my post will spur some of the ones dreaming about truly making it big
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree there would be issues but like all software, it can be modified. for example, up-scaling could run as a default for the entire system as there would be no need to have the iphone running 800 x 480, it could be the default iphone resolution
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're probably right, no one on this forum has access but someone's friend of a friend that works at apple or is a consultant does. Yes, you can buy touch pro 2's on the internet but there's a limited supply. in april of 2009 it was reported 37 million iphones/ipod touches have been sold. this is over a 3 year period. in a 2 day period 270,000 iphones were sold. are there even 270,000 touch pro 2 users? how many of us have the money and the means to end our contract and pay for an iphone? how many of us simply don't do it because of the cost and/or cons of using att or a phone with no keyboard? there aren't enough touch pro 2's in existance
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that Apple would do all of this, worldwide fame and recognition of your talents. Surely someone would face the consequences than stay nameless in a basement somewhere for the rest of their life. Someone is reading this that can and will do it because it is achievable.
aZzz.bZzz said:
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes please...........oh sorry i was only joking
apple don't like it.......
when people clone or try to copy there OS
they have and will come down on us like a ton of bricks
this is a reason why people don't try it.
I thought the interwebs is soo vast far and wide.
But I just cant seem to hide from these Iphone crap...
Dumb idea...
As a developer, there is no way in h*ll I would try this. First off, Apple would rain fire and brimstone down on top of you. Apple is one of the most controlling and paranoid companies on the planet. XDA would get shutdown almost immediately just for being associated with it.
Besides, I like not being a sheep. So why would I want to imitate one? Let the sheeple be happy with their device. I'll be happy with mine.
i'll happily be a sheeple
data that's relevant to you individually? why aren't any other phones doing this exact thing as well? it's been 3 years since the iphone came out, surely someone outside of apple realizes the benefits of the iphone and should be building it into wm6 or 7, and android. a phone that actually uses your current location to suggest food and things that you can enjoy that you would otherwise miss the opportunity or waste your time looking for? the games, the programs, the applications, are all built well and perform well because of the os that is used. the iphone os, interface, all of it, is genius. there are things to improve, but let someone crack it and then the rest of us will come up with improvements
I'll port this over if you can get me the iPhone OS source code. I'm thinking you'll run into trouble though, because it's not publicly available
Please read up on development before making such an outlandish request
this thread is done
as if we let it happen here we will be contacted by apple
and they don't like it when people play with there toys.
thread closed
When I originally chose the successor to my aging gSmart phone, I did a lot(!) of research on functionality, features and technological viability.
But somehow it never appeared to me to check out the viability of the underlying Operating System (WinMo) itself - given my early history with PalmOS and how Palm Inc. had just surrendered to Microzoft over nite, it never dawned on me that WinMo itself might one day share the same fate as the doomed Palm Operating System.
But now I stumbled across this Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Mobile
Now did I just spend $800 on a phone (and am about to waste another $100 on renewing my non-transferable licenses) that won't have any Operating System Updates coming past 2010?!
In that article HTC is alleged to not just be the greatest supplier of WinMo phones, with 80% they're pretty much *it* - meaning no HTC no WinMo phone market no more.
Now what does HTC say about their commitment to the WinMo platform?
And if HTC decides not to release e.g. WM7 for the HD2, will the ROM cookers of XDA come to our aid and port for us (please) one of those leaked versions?
So many questions and so few answers
WM will still be developed. ROM updates will be released. WM7 will be released for the HD2 probably officially and for free. I really don't see the problem. Besides the HTC Sense hides WM so much that if there wasn't the start icon on the screen you wouldn't even notice it works on WM...
gregormax said:
WM will still be developed. ROM updates will be released. WM7 will be released for the HD2 probably officially and for free. I really don't see the problem. Besides the HTC Sense hides WM so much that if there wasn't the start icon on the screen you wouldn't even notice it works on WM...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Ever spoken to an OS/2 user lately or watch the calisthenics of an Amiga user when trying to perform such mundane tasks like trying to run a GigaByte database application on his systm?
Ever watched an Atari user trying to download a 300MB file from the Internet?
Seen a Palm User playing Adobe Flash videos lately?
I could go on like this, but it is naive at best to have the attitude "because I don't see my Operating system during daily use, I don't have to worry about getting support for it..."
Microsoft have rested on their laurels for too long, and WM7 might be too far away to do any good. But don't worry, WM6.6 is just around the corner.... What is that gonna bring???
Android has come from nowhere, fueled by the Iphone?
WM is just cluncky right now, HTC can only cover over the little cracks of WM, but the big cracks still exist. One day soon, even HTC will say "Windows... ahhh Feck it!!!"
I've always poo-pooed Android because I would not want to leave the WM apps I have on my device. But those apps I have are apps that rectify WM shortcomings in the first place - shortcomings that don't appear on Android.
There are only two apps I can't live without and would keep me using WM a device, and they are My Sport Training and My Personal Diet. And in 2010 they are going to be ported over to Android. When I see them on Android, I will sit up....
I just think all the other operating systems are getting more polished, but WM is still a turd. And an old turd at that....
A final point that has just come to me.... People say that WM allows you to alter the settings and just tinker.... why? Because it is crap and you need to spend so much time getting it right? Because people here at forums like this can do better and produce software better than MS or HTC????
Am I ranting??? Am I coming to the end of WM?
Discuss...
pharao said:
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's particularly offensive and you should apologise to gregormax immediately for that!
The "article" you linked suggest that it may be possible that windows mobile will no longer be developed. It's an analyst suggesting a possibility - it is not fact, or even likely.
You should read the whole thing again, but don't take it as gospel just because an analyst was "quoted" on a wiki page.
pharao said:
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Ever spoken to an OS/2 user lately or watch the calisthenics of an Amiga user when trying to perform such mundane tasks like trying to run a GigaByte database application on his systm?
Ever watched an Atari user trying to download a 300MB file from the Internet?
Seen a Palm User playing Adobe Flash videos lately?
I could go on like this, but it is naive at best to have the attitude "because I don't see my Operating system during daily use, I don't have to worry about getting support for it..."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good analogies... My Amiga 500 Plus had a 170mb hardrive. Huge!!!!! I only filled 40mb of it! lol... And I could run a country off that! And that was only 18 years ago... LOL
I don't see what the fuss is about. What more do you want it to do?
It sends emails, sms (some times ) & mms
Connects to the internet.
Has wifi
Can be used as a router
Takes photos & video
Plays videos
Has weather & stocks
Finger friendly (If you say its not you have chubby fingers and should start eating lettice)
Plays games
Theres loads more. So what if WM7 doesn't come out on this it's a great phone as it is (apart from sms issue)
What more do I want it to do? I can think of a lot I would like my handheld to do in the future. I want it to show actual video of the road I'm driving down with a big orange stripe telling me where to go. That's the navigation of the future. I want it to stream HD video flawlessly, from every possible source. I want it to play music and have a DAC and preamp as good as a high end car/home stereo. I want it to call the police when it gets stolen and tell them where it is. I want to be able to think of words and have them appear on the screen, same with opening applications. I want it to be incredibly easy to use and predict what I'm going to do before I do it. I want it to tell me that my favorite Cheesesteak restaurant is going out of business in a week so I better swing by for a last sandwich before it's too late. I want it to clock me in at work when I walk in the door and send a message to them when it determines I won't make it on time.
I don't hate WM and Sense 2.5 right now at all, my phone does more than anybody else's around me but there is no way I would be happy with it a decade from now. I bet if you look back at a phone you were totally happy with ten years ago that you wouldn't want it in your pocket today.
Microsoft hasn't lost yet but they need to get to work and they need to do it fast, that is if they want to compete. Maybe they don't care about mobile any more. That's OK too, other companies do and will care.
balane said:
What more do I want it to do? I can think of a lot I would like my handheld to do in the future. I want it to show actual video of the road I'm driving down with a big orange stripe telling me where to go. That's the navigation of the future. I want it to stream HD video flawlessly, from every possible source. I want it to play music and have a DAC and preamp as good as a high end car/home stereo. I want it to call the police when it gets stolen and tell them where it is. I want to be able to think of words and have them appear on the screen, same with opening applications. I want it to be incredibly easy to use and predict what I'm going to do before I do it. I want it to tell me that my favorite Cheesesteak restaurant is going out of business in a week so I better swing by for a last sandwich before it's too late. I want it to clock me in at work when I walk in the door and send a message to them when it determines I won't make it on time.
I don't hate WM and Sense 2.5 right now at all, my phone does more than anybody else's around me but there is no way I would be happy with it a decade from now. I bet if you look back at a phone you were totally happy with ten years ago that you wouldn't want it in your pocket today.
Microsoft hasn't lost yet but they need to get to work and they need to do it fast, that is if they want to compete. Maybe they don't care about mobile any more. That's OK too, other companies do and will care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u forgot making coffee...
pharao said:
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced to realize what kind of a problem it is if the Operating System you're running is no longer being developed?
Ever spoken to an OS/2 user lately or watch the calisthenics of an Amiga user when trying to perform such mundane tasks like trying to run a GigaByte database application on his systm?
Ever watched an Atari user trying to download a 300MB file from the Internet?
Seen a Palm User playing Adobe Flash videos lately?
I could go on like this, but it is naive at best to have the attitude "because I don't see my Operating system during daily use, I don't have to worry about getting support for it..."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all you get support and new updates from HTC. A new version of WM? OK, what for? You write about Atari, Palm, etc. but this just shows you don't know what you're talking about. What great feature do you see for phones coming before WM7 is released (this year)? Because right now with the 6.5 you can do EVERYTHING the competition offers and even more (compare the HD2 to the iPhone for instance). Your arguments about Amiga and Atari are quite... let's say childish. The last popular Amiga was released more than 15 years ago so what do you want to prove with that. The problem here is not the software but the hardware. In 3 years the HD2 won't be probably even decent compared to newer devices and system updates won't help. Do you think that with a new Amiga OS (i.e. Workbench) you would now be able to open 1GB files on an Amiga 1200 with 2MB of RAM? Wish you luck .
In matter of OS I really don't see any update which would be a must before WM7 is released and as we all know WM7 will be probably available for the HD2 for free. So if you see some indispensable updates for WM6.5 be my guest - I really wonder what it could be. Besides it's really smart to rely on Wikipedia for official news... afaik WM is still in development and WM6.6 will be released soon - just as I wrote in the first post - quote: "WM will still be developed". The problem is that for no apparent reason you think WM won't be developed anymore and that's a quite naive statement.
johncmolyneux said:
That's particularly offensive and you should apologise to gregormax immediately for that!
The "article" you linked suggest that it may be possible that windows mobile will no longer be developed. It's an analyst suggesting a possibility - it is not fact, or even likely.
You should read the whole thing again, but don't take it as gospel just because an analyst was "quoted" on a wiki page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is it offensive if I ask someone who in essence says "If I don't see my OpSys then I don't have to worry about it not being supported any more" if he tries to be dense on purpose?
That is not offensive at all, and I will most certainly not apologize for making a valid point here.
Quite to the contrary I think that gregormax should think about how qualified his remarks were, which most certainly did not address the issue of my posting at all - but just tried to belittle it all.
And I did read the whole darn article, including the part where every(!) industry analyst agreed that 2010 is the out time for Windows Mobile and WinMo7 the last major release of it.
And I have seen this cycle happening before.
As soon as the OpSys manufacturer pulls the plug on their platform, all the major SW developers will stop developing for it - and in most cases will also stop supporting their apps.
Regardless of how much money users just paid for their software.
So I do think that this is a valid point of concern for anyone spending close to a thousand dollars on their HTC device.
Towserspvm2000 said:
Good analogies... My Amiga 500 Plus had a 170mb hardrive. Huge!!!!! I only filled 40mb of it! lol... And I could run a country off that! And that was only 18 years ago... LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you realize that there are still Amiga computers sold even today?
They have two companies in Italy still marketing that platform.
Their designs look quite impressive, until you get to the actual technical details.
And then you realize how hopelessly outdated the whole darn thing is.
And "running a whole country of 170mb"?
I doubt that very much. Even back in the days, it took more than that just to manage a single city. That is what IBM mainframes were made for.
All is said but here my 5 cent.
A company like MS does have the claim to be present in all possible software markets regardless of the fact wheter with or without success. They will never drop it even if they lose money because to them its an image thingy....
I'm also pretty sure that Microsoft will bring at some point their own smartphone which is currently nothing else but a rumour but gonna come true once and that will be running on such an OS developed by MS as well.
Cheers
LEE
Towserspvm2000 said:
Microsoft have rested on their laurels for too long, and WM7 might be too far away to do any good. But don't worry, WM6.6 is just around the corner.... What is that gonna bring???
Android has come from nowhere, fueled by the Iphone?
WM is just cluncky right now, HTC can only cover over the little cracks of WM, but the big cracks still exist. One day soon, even HTC will say "Windows... ahhh Feck it!!!"
I've always poo-pooed Android because I would not want to leave the WM apps I have on my device. But those apps I have are apps that rectify WM shortcomings in the first place - shortcomings that don't appear on Android.
There are only two apps I can't live without and would keep me using WM a device, and they are My Sport Training and My Personal Diet. And in 2010 they are going to be ported over to Android. When I see them on Android, I will sit up....
I just think all the other operating systems are getting more polished, but WM is still a turd. And an old turd at that....
A final point that has just come to me.... People say that WM allows you to alter the settings and just tinker.... why? Because it is crap and you need to spend so much time getting it right? Because people here at forums like this can do better and produce software better than MS or HTC????
Am I ranting??? Am I coming to the end of WM?
Discuss...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I would have most certainly accused you of "ranting" myself, until I read what all those Industry Analysts and the major phone suppliers said about their (lacking) support for WinMo - that and the ever Shrinking Market Share of WM.
Now I feel I just wasted another thousand dollars (phone + SW licenses) on a freaking Dinosaur.
A device outdated by its Operating System before it even hit the shelves
lee1980 said:
All is said but here my 5 cent.
A company like MS does have the claim to be present in all possible software markets regardless of the fact wheter with or without success. They will never drop it even if they lose money because to them its an image thingy....
...
Cheers
LEE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They used to say the same About Apple and the Newton, until Apple dropped that platform over night.
Same with IBM and OS/2.
I just don't see how they can survive their ever shrinking market share and I never knew that 80% of all WinMo phones are made by one single company - HTC.
balane said:
What more do I want it to do? I can think of a lot I would like my handheld to do in the future. I want it to show actual video of the road I'm driving down with a big orange stripe telling me where to go. That's the navigation of the future. I want it to stream HD video flawlessly, from every possible source. I want it to play music and have a DAC and preamp as good as a high end car/home stereo. I want it to call the police when it gets stolen and tell them where it is. I want to be able to think of words and have them appear on the screen, same with opening applications. I want it to be incredibly easy to use and predict what I'm going to do before I do it. I want it to tell me that my favorite Cheesesteak restaurant is going out of business in a week so I better swing by for a last sandwich before it's too late. I want it to clock me in at work when I walk in the door and send a message to them when it determines I won't make it on time.
I don't hate WM and Sense 2.5 right now at all, my phone does more than anybody else's around me but there is no way I would be happy with it a decade from now. I bet if you look back at a phone you were totally happy with ten years ago that you wouldn't want it in your pocket today.
Microsoft hasn't lost yet but they need to get to work and they need to do it fast, that is if they want to compete. Maybe they don't care about mobile any more. That's OK too, other companies do and will care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't care about Sandwiches or what happens a decade from now.
But that my old TomTom App & Maps no longer work on the HTC HD2 and that it is now highly unlikely that TomTom will ever offer support for that platform, yes that does concern me a lot.
The same goes for my multiple talking language dictionaries I own, as I do travel excessively.
If they are not ported over, I just wasted close to $200 for language packs I can't even use as weights (should have bought the paper version instead ;-(
There are many, many such applications that I used to run on my old gSmart phone, and was waiting to be ported to the WVGA HD2 platform.
But after reading that article I highly, highly doubt that many SW vendors will be in a hurry to invest development capacity for a dieing platform.
pharao said:
They used to say the same About Apple and the Newton, until Apple dropped that platform over night.
Same with IBM and OS/2.
I just don't see how they can survive their ever shrinking market share and I never knew that 80% of all WinMo phones are made by one single company - HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well but those examples are a bit different. OS/2 was dropped because microsoft finished the coop. with IBM (simply a strategic decision for focusing on windows) and the newton because of the not given market acceptance. None of the because of the big competition on the market like now....
Maybe they should corner the HTC ;-)
You are so wrong my friend. I have an ex colleague that works for Route 66. They received all the Android prototypes and WM phones to get software developed on them. Android will get navigation software and my guess is that the HD2 will also get navigation software for the new wm7. He can't tell me more, because of the confidentiality.
I really think you are exaggerating and the lack of inside info, or any kind of confirmation, strong rumor, or whatever is making you think this way.
Just give it a couple of months until we see wm7 and we get an official confirmation for the hd2.
pharao said:
Why is it offensive if I ask someone who in essence says "If I don't see my OpSys then I don't have to worry about it not being supported any more" if he tries to be dense on purpose?
That is not offensive at all, and I will most certainly not apologize for making a valid point here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I told you to apologise because this is supposed to be a mature and helpful forum, and not filled with people who immediately start name-calling as soon as there is a person who disagrees with their point of view. People who resort to that are singularly responsible for the only bad aspect of this whole forum.
R u trying to be extra dense on purpose or are you just to inexperienced
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You WERE offensive and you SHOULD apologise. If you had any level of maturity you would at least accept that name-calling is pretty pathetic and pointless.
lorin.bute said:
You are so wrong my friend. I have an ex colleague that works for Route 66. They received all the Android prototypes and WM phones to get software developed on them. Android will get navigation software and my guess is that the HD2 will also get navigation software for the new wm7. He can't tell me more, because of the confidentiality.
I really think you are exaggerating and the lack of inside info, or any kind of confirmation, strong rumor, or whatever is making you think this way.
Just give it a couple of months until we see wm7 and we get an official confirmation for the hd2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I spoke with TomTom about support for the HD2 they told me flat out "no support and none planned".
And I need turn by turn mapping software that includes places like Eastern Europe, Africa and South America.
Not just maps for downtown London or Los Angeles.
And there are not so many GPS capable map application providers out there who "cover the whole globe".
The WinMo support by companies like TomTom was the reason why I bought my first WinMo phone to begin with, as I had originally set my mind on a Linux phone.
If HTC can not secure that kind of support for the HD2, then I made a serious misjudgment in spending that much money for this device :-(
Hi all. I've decided to try and make some future Microsoft product "my idea", so I've submitted the following letter to them via billg [at] microsoft [dit] com. I just wanted to know if you guys had any input.
Flaming is sure to happen, and while I won't argue with you, I will probably wish your firstborn child is used as a shot put.
Dear Microsoft,
Lately I’ve been bombarded with commercial after commercial showing random people (and their self perceptions) stating that Windows 7 was their idea for one reason or another. I’m not completely disgusted by these or anything, but it started my mind on one of those winding roads a character in a story might have to take to get home, or to the girl, or to the climax, or… well I guess that is kind of repetitious – but the point is, I started thinking about the variety of Microsoft’s operating systems and the history they’ve had – rather, our history together.
I’ve used just about everything Microsoft has created… I started my computer “education” by soldering a few broken parts back together on a Commodore 64 I found in a dump, and then learning BASIC on it (the BASIC on the Commodore 64 was a variant created and licensed by Microsoft). Right now, I’m typing this in Microsoft Word, on a laptop that has Microsoft Windows Vista, being distracted by a cellular phone that runs Microsoft Windows Phone 6.5.
That was a mouthful when I read it aloud.
But the reason for this letter is not so much a history lesson, but a worry of what is to come. It seems the goal over there the past few years is some cross between being different and being more like Macintosh, or Google, or insert company name here, and I’m here to state that I don’t like the transformation the publicists and tech news sites are ranting and raving about.
A few examples?
- Most recently must be the attempt to remove the clipboard features from my phone. I say “attempt”, because I am willing to bet that will be brought back, either by you or some developers out there.
- Office 2007’s menu structure looks like someone tried to “make it better” and ruined it.
- Windows Vista and Windows 7 both look like some kind of cross-dressing Microsoft product who was “supposed to be a Mac”.
What happens when you become so close to the competition that nobody can tell you apart? Developers and IT teams may not like parts of Windows, but they are able adjust most of what they don’t like to work for them. If this path continues, and all of the contenders out there do the exact same thing, you’re really shooting yourselves in the collective foot by taking away your uniqueness.
I guess what I’m really trying to say is “different” does not equal “better”. Get back to your roots and make something that your current audience will buy. Put them above the “new customers” you’re trying to reach. It’s the same error that many companies make nowadays – neglecting the long time customers for some new ones. You end up losing great customers that way.
See, I am a man. There’s an expression stating that men marry women expecting them to be the same, and women marry men expecting that they’ll change. I feel like Microsoft is giving in to the women out there – the ones who complain about it being too hard to use or not pretty enough – and we have enough of that already. I’m not trying to hate on women out there, but maybe the movie Team America explained it best… something about assholes, dicks, and ******* (I won’t go into it, but watch the movie if you need an explanation). What we need is for Microsoft to be a **** again.
Good luck and happy creating,
(Name Removed)
P.S. This email was sent using Microsoft Outlook.
Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Drunk
oooh nice
so did they reply back and what did the email say?
anyway nice letter
no replies yet, but I just sent it last night.
Mad props for Team America reference =P
the whole my idea is just a commercial not a real deal imho
http://gizmodo.com/5477384/windows-7-was-my-idea-but-to-be-fair-i-dont-know-what-im-talking-about
I don't doubt that it is just a big marketing gimick, but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones.
I'm waiting for them to show the ads on TV which make the claim that W7 has fewer clicks so I can report it to the ASA.
Starting a program like solitaire with the mouse is either the same number (if you don't mind a 2 second wait) or one more click than XP/Vista.
As for getting to the network card properties that's a heck of a lot more clicks than Vista or XP.
W7 has some very well thought out features, but unfortunately it's got more that just aren't.
I hate MS for putting me in a position where I have to say I prefer Vista! Damn them! Damn them to Hades!
WM7 looks awful, and the restrictions they're putting on it make no user or business sense.
Office 2007 is appauling, what were they thinking? Why make an application which users have to refer to google in order to complete simple common tasks?
Don't expect a reply, Drunk, at least something that isn't just generically polite and thanking you for your thoughtful input.
You blended good points that resonate with much of their shrinking user base, made up partly by people who have no idea they're running Microsoft and also in part by people who are obsessed with modifying them, with that bit on genitals. They're not interested in us anymore, nor would they want to add a lot of attention to your letter by giving you something from them to paste on and spread around. They want to intercept people from buying the other phones with no regard to who's already buying their own phones, and you can't really blame them considering how fast they're still falling (down 4% last quarter) toward obscurity.
Just to offer myself as an example of others reading what you just posted and what may be on their own minds, considering I made two websites about the damn thing, I'd say I was a bonafide WinMo fanatic, one of the last expected to say adios, but I just did, a Nexus One, and not only will I continue to love and go nuts with it I will attempt to take others with me. It's brewing right here on XDA, the place you'd think would be the haven mainly for people who like to do what can mostly only be done exclusively with WinMo phones.
Actually I read this by mistake, forgot to get rid of all my WinMo rss feeds on Google Reader to which my phone's synced. Good read though, glad you posted it. So thanks.
But no matter how much rabble you rouse here nor what signs you wave in front of their Seattle office you won't stop this train, the general direction of which they've made it clear that they are taking with WP7 being mostly the opposite of what a lot of us want. They can't please everyone and they'd rather please would-otherwise-be customers of their competitors even at the expense of estranging themselves from part of their existing customers. On the bright side, in addition to there being other options (specifically the one I took), they claim they'll keep supporting existing versions of WinMo for at least a while, though not forever on new devices I don't think which will have unique hardware that if I heard correctly won't even have removable storage, not to mention any support for decentralized application distribution. You don't like the sound of what's coming but what's coming is in their opinion good for business and I suppose mine too. When you're already failing at this rate in such a critical time of penetrating a huge market with enormous potential that will be realized further and further every day, it's hard to come up with a dumb idea on how to do things differently. Not to mention I've seen quite a few extremists shrug off each new bit of bad news saying Whatever I'll still try it, and once they do, then Microsoft has got them for at least a long enough period of time to figure out how to keep them hooked while they intercept little bits of business from the others. Right now they're handing business away. It's a joke.
Making sure the likes of you and others on sites like XDA remain happy customers as they implement these drastic changes to their mobile operations is not high up on their to do list.
Just sayin'.
Doug
Can't say I don't agree with you on most of that. I honestly don't expect much of a reply... at most a blanket letter or something like that. I've also been working my way to other vendors. I've got some android variant on my TP2 now and Ubuntu on my laptop (both still dual boots, but it's a step that direction). I just didn't want it all to happen without my 2 cents' worth being thrown at them.
Thanks for stopping by.
I hear you man, I'm all about ranting. This and this in particular. Also this.
Take a look at that and mobilitydigest.com (basically the same with a less weird domain), you'd make a great writer. Perfect style, perfect background (impressive by the way), perfect fire in your belly. We can't yet offer you money but what we can give you is an audience. Let me know.
"but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones."
yeah with the whole win phone 7 seeming like being a copy of the features of org iphone sure sounds like they are getting bad advice
Guyz... Just came across this blog where MS is giving some estimated time frame that you can expect the NoDo or Copy/Paste update to your specific device.
This link is specific to the US devices: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/update-schedule-usa.aspx
HD7 Device shows up as "Scheduling". They also claim the status would be updated weekly. So go check it out.
This is the link to the Blog: http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_.../2011/03/23/copy-and-paste-update-status.aspx
I've been holding it in and am a huge supporter. This isn't going to be constructive at all but, **** MSFT AND THE CARRIERS!! It's MSFT fault either way. If the carriers are delaying release of the updates, then they should have enough nuts to say something and get it done. Hell, show them the predicted results of what happens to your market share when they piddle around and piss off customers. I've been one since I bought my Motorola MPX 220 and Ipaq Pocket PC. I've done nothing but brag about WM since it's inception. Posted facts about WM on my Facebook page to shut up people about Apple and them being the first smartphone. And now I'm just plain fed the **** UP!! Sorry to rant, but I could actually keep going. NO custom ringtones, NO Mass Storage, NO multitasking for an alarm clock that doesn't suck, NO threaded email or single email inbox, NO....you fill in the blank now. And I was excusing all these things due to my faith that MSFT will get with the program pretty quickly. Looks like it's time to fix my HD2's screen or buy a freaking Android phone until MSFT catches up in 2015!
I agree. I am so pissed at the way MS is trying to push this update. If MS can define hardware limitations, they could very well define the update rules to the carriers. I think MS should grow a pair and tell the manufacturers/carriers to push the update all at once its ready.
This is so frustrating. No doubt Apple is the master of delivering the updates. In fact, Apple does not even have to announce a software update, every one knows they can expect one every year in March/April.
I thought MS would have learnt something good when they launched WP7.
"Push updates in Batches" my Ass.
It's MSFT fault either way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sure about that or are you just itching to point an unnecessary finger at MS??
Hell, show them the predicted results of what happens to your market share when they piddle around and piss off customers. I've been one since I bought my Motorola MPX 220 and Ipaq Pocket PC. I've done nothing but brag about WM since it's inception.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow... all that and THIS is what gets to you. You waded through all the other stuff, You go back to about 2003 with MS you finally get a FAR SUPERIOR device and this minor wait is doing it??
Come the hell on.
NO custom ringtones, NO Mass Storage, NO multitasking for an alarm clock that doesn't suck, NO threaded email or single email inbox, NO....you fill in the blank now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the rest of us are going to need a life raft just to avoid drowning in your silly-ass tears.
Ya know, I think it's big of MS ot post the fact that the carriers are the ones holding **** up. Who else does that?
If MS can define hardware limitations, they could very well define the update rules to the carriers. I think MS should grow a pair and tell the manufacturers/carriers to push the update all at once its ready.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hold on there pard'ner. You are talking about two VERY different entities. MS, and manufcturers are ALL at the mercy of carriers.
No doubt Apple is the master of delivering the updates. In fact, Apple does not even have to announce a software update, every one knows they can expect one every year in March/April.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... one update a year, then a new phone later that year (or so) and they are "masters" at this?? The ****... seriously?!?
I have a solution for everyone one Apple or Android. But don't forget your hankys 'cuz you will have PLENTY to ***** about there too.
Kthxbye!
Hi Everyone,
Not sure if this has already been posted but here is a schedule for people OUTSIDE the U.S. as well...
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...pdate-status-carriers-countries-and-devices/#
Not 100% sure on the acuracy of it but I hope it helps...
Sean D. said:
You sure about that or are you just itching to point an unnecessary finger at MS??
wow... all that and THIS is what gets to you. You waded through all the other stuff, You go back to about 2003 with MS you finally get a FAR SUPERIOR device and this minor wait is doing it??
Come the hell on.
I think the rest of us are going to need a life raft just to avoid drowning in your silly-ass tears.
Ya know, I think it's big of MS ot post the fact that the carriers are the ones holding **** up. Who else does that?
Hold on there pard'ner. You are talking about two VERY different entities. MS, and manufcturers are ALL at the mercy of carriers.
So... one update a year, then a new phone later that year (or so) and they are "masters" at this?? The ****... seriously?!?
I have a solution for everyone one Apple or Android. But don't forget your hankys 'cuz you will have PLENTY to ***** about there too.
Kthxbye!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have HD2 running android and have less to complain about then with WP7.
I also have HD7 with half an OS on it. It reminds me it is half an OS as each time I want to do something there is no option for it or it says no.
WP7 has potential but the way it is going that's where it is going to stay till XDA developers hack it.
Name smartphone was invented for a reason, it was to be used with phones that were "smarter" then average mobile. Had plenty of functions where everyone could find what they need. Current range of WP7 phones, Apple phones are a retarded version of smartphone but that only makes it an average phone, just huge!!!
Sean D. said:
So... one update a year, then a new phone later that year (or so) and they are "masters" at this?? The ****... seriously?!?
I have a solution for everyone one Apple or Android. But don't forget your hankys 'cuz you will have PLENTY to ***** about there too.
Kthxbye!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You still haven't made your point.
An update every year to all its zillion+ customer base at once with our any issues irrespective of the carrier, across countries and continents. If they are not masters of this, you let me know the word I can use or you think appropriate.
A tiny-ass copy/paste update (which I'm not even crazy about) is taking them forever to deliver to it's customers. The reason I'm more interested in the update is for the Bluetooth fix and the email pictures fix, which when sent form an iPhone is not received.
An Apple or Android for every one of us? I cannot talk for others, but I've been there done that. Not apple of course (except for the 1st gen phone which I was using it on T-Mobile after unlocking it myself). I currently own a N1, HD2, HD7 (my primary device) and Galaxy S (my wife).
I'm not really sure about your devices experience, but you have lot a lot to say with out any point.
ruscik said:
I have HD2 running android and have less to complain about then with WP7.
I also have HD7 with half an OS on it. It reminds me it is half an OS as each time I want to do something there is no option for it or it says no.
WP7 has potential but the way it is going that's where it is going to stay till XDA developers hack it.
Name smartphone was invented for a reason, it was to be used with phones that were "smarter" then average mobile. Had plenty of functions where everyone could find what they need. Current range of WP7 phones, Apple phones are a retarded version of smartphone but that only makes it an average phone, just huge!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One question - How many times in a week do your reboot your phone or flash a ROM. I'm not asking if you are flashing ROM because there is a new one out there, I'm asking about the times you flash because of the hope the next one would be more usable and stable.
I was done looking for a perfect ROM and fed-up with ROMs that require a reboot every 12 or 24 hrs for them to work with out hanging up. I found the level of stability, usability, functionality and ease with WP7 OS. Thats why I switched. Of course the Apps and Games are a HUGE bonus for me.
VizagDude said:
I agree. I am so pissed at the way MS is trying to push this update. If MS can define hardware limitations, they could very well define the update rules to the carriers. I think MS should grow a pair and tell the manufacturers/carriers to push the update all at once its ready.
This is so frustrating. No doubt Apple is the master of delivering the updates. In fact, Apple does not even have to announce a software update, every one knows they can expect one every year in March/April.
I thought MS would have learnt something good when they launched WP7.
"Push updates in Batches" my Ass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you actually stopped to think about what you just said, apple can do that because first of all they make their OWN devices (which are extremely overpriced/battery cant be replaced easily if at all) so yeah they can just send out an update, it doesnt have to be test on all of these different manufactured devices. So.........Apple still sucks..........WINDOWS PHONE ALL THE WAY!!!
You guys have to give microsoft a break. It is illogical and unfair to compare a first year company in the new smartphone age to others (apple and android) which have been around for years. Apple and android had really shaky starts too, maybe even worse. Its just an update guys, give microsoft a break on their new and amazing product! NICE JOB MS, keep the magic coming.
=================
Dell Venue Pro 16gb----TMobile(soon to be At&t :/ )
I agree here 100%. I came from WM 6.1 Pro to Android and dont get me wrong... I love my Droid but man did I do alot of *****ing waiting for my FroYo update and for what really? Flash was the biggest upgrade from Eclair and Apps2SD... REALLY??? Apps2SD??? My Omnia i910 could do that right out of the box but I had to wait for an update to do it on my Galaxy S I thought to myself...
This is a similar scenario here and guess what??? *****ing or NO *****ing we still have to wait NO MATTER WHAT!!!
I think MS has done a fantastic job on this OS and although it is lacking some pretty basic functionality as of now, IT WILL COME just like having to wait for Apps2 SD on Android which to me coming from WM 6.1 Pro I thought was pretty basic.
Hold your horses people and let MS do its thing and when this OS begins to mature a bit I have no doubt that it will be an absolute BEAST!!!
gmark7 said:
If you actually stopped to think about what you just said, apple can do that because first of all they make their OWN devices (which are extremely overpriced/battery cant be replaced easily if at all) so yeah they can just send out an update, it doesnt have to be test on all of these different manufactured devices. So.........Apple still sucks..........WINDOWS PHONE ALL THE WAY!!!
You guys have to give microsoft a break. It is illogical and unfair to compare a first year company in the new smartphone age to others (apple and android) which have been around for years. Apple and android had really shaky starts too, maybe even worse. Its just an update guys, give microsoft a break on their new and amazing product! NICE JOB MS, keep the magic coming.
=================
Dell Venue Pro 16gb----TMobile(soon to be At&t :/ )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If not for the *****ing, we wouldn't even have the schedule they posted in their Blog. If they had took care of informing their customers in a timely manner and with accurate info, no one would've been *****ing. Instead, they were promoting their coming updates and fixes giving vague timings and everyone are frustrated not knowing what and when to expect.
The reason I got this device is because I love the OS. But that does not get away from the fact that they screwed up the update process.
the question now is, how often will ms be updating the website. we need to know cause the updates in the website (for hd7's) says that they are to be scheduled and it says it will take 10 days or less. when will the counting of days start? from the time the website was opened? if this is the case were now down to 7 days of wait time. i think ms needs to start re-labeling the updates. NoDo should be april update not march update
Sean D. said:
You sure about that or are you just itching to point an unnecessary finger at MS??
wow... all that and THIS is what gets to you. You waded through all the other stuff, You go back to about 2003 with MS you finally get a FAR SUPERIOR device and this minor wait is doing it??
Come the hell on.
I think the rest of us are going to need a life raft just to avoid drowning in your silly-ass tears.
Ya know, I think it's big of MS ot post the fact that the carriers are the ones holding **** up. Who else does that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The finger pointing isn't unnecessary. Either they care about making customer's happy (who buy the product) or they can be more concerned about the carriers (which in my case Tmobile) haven't shown that much support for the OS in the first place. And you're right, I waded through all the other stuff because winmo really wasn't that bad if you understood what you were getting. For 2003, viewing movies, listening to mp3's and using Office features on a phone were so cutting edge, that you were willing to deal with the occasional bug, lock up or sometimes slowness of the OS. The only thing they did with WP7 was fix the ugliness,smoothness, and overall stability of the OS. Which is exactly what needed to happen. I applaud them for the fresh start. But, seriously, we're in 2011 now (8 yrs later) and you can't regress so far backwards, and then waste loads of time to re-implement things your previous (and every other OS) does now. I mean, what second or newer iteration of a product have you seen that loses a lot of it's most valuable marketing aspects? And as for my tear being silly. Your disillusioned in your thoughts that you don't need such things as I mentioned. If there was no need for them, then mobile OS's wouldn't have them and no one would care.
kwill said:
The finger pointing isn't unnecessary. Either they care about making customer's happy (who buy the product) or they can be more concerned about the carriers (which in my case Tmobile) haven't shown that much support for the OS in the first place. And you're right, I waded through all the other stuff because winmo really wasn't that bad if you understood what you were getting. For 2003, viewing movies, listening to mp3's and using Office features on a phone were so cutting edge, that you were willing to deal with the occasional bug, lock up or sometimes slowness of the OS. The only thing they did with WP7 was fix the ugliness,smoothness, and overall stability of the OS. Which is exactly what needed to happen. I applaud them for the fresh start. But, seriously, we're in 2011 now (8 yrs later) and you can't regress so far backwards, and then waste loads of time to re-implement things your previous (and every other OS) does now. I mean, what second or newer iteration of a product have you seen that loses a lot of it's most valuable marketing aspects? And as for my tear being silly. Your disillusioned in your thoughts that you don't need such things as I mentioned. If there was no need for them, then mobile OS's wouldn't have them and no one would care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean...? They are doing something they NEVER did. They are not only supporting this OS, but addressing it in ways they never have before. I do agree that some things should not have been left out to begin with, IMO it is unacceptable to leave out something as minor as C&P. But they aren't the only ones who did this, and whoever compared them to apple is missing that this minor update is being given away they aren't forcing you to by another device to get it. You said it yourself, MS is not new to this game... hell in most ways they started the smartphone game the way it exists today.
So take a look at the ways Android (one of the OS's everyone claims is doing it right) went about rolling out Froyo. Or look at the fact that Apple is and has been pushing shiney, brand new feature to the masses that were available on my Kaiser in 2007 (front facing camera) or how they are masters at turd polishing.
With that in mind how are they really messing up?
You are seeing MS do things with it that we saw no signs of in 2003 but you feel they are making that big of a mistake?? I urge you to look past the minor crap and look at the overall picture.
There is no way you can logically look at this OS as a whole and see any real regressions. "Imperfections", hell yes. But regressions?? No way. The worst part about this update is that it has been beat to **** so bad that it can only catch negativity at this point. It has been splashed from site to site, and talked about at length... the expectations and anticipations are so high that people can only be let down. Back the hell away from the keyboard and chill out about something so small people.
Please read these links.
http://wmpoweruser.com/editorial-the-continuing-diminishing-return-from-updates/
http://wpcentral.com/fanboy-s-defense-microsoft
Sean D. said:
What do you mean...? They are doing something they NEVER did. They are not only supporting this OS, but addressing it in ways they never have before. ... and whoever compared them to apple is missing that this minor update is being given away they aren't forcing you to by another device to get it. ... There is no way you can logically look at this OS as a whole and see any real regressions. "Imperfections", hell yes. But regressions?? No way. The worst part about this update is that it has been beat to **** so bad that it can only catch negativity at this point. It has been splashed from site to site, and talked about at length... the expectations and anticipations are so high that people can only be let down. Back the hell away from the keyboard and chill out about something so small people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They did support windows mobile, there was plenty of new builds just when WP7 project started it wend down. Yes they address update process in a new way but it is a flaud way. What testing carriers need to do? I mean FFS they put their own picture and search engine in, that is it.
I agree MS is more concerned about keeping o2, Tmobile or other carrier happy and as per normal do not care about ned user. We paid for this device and we should get an update ASAP bypassing carriers. Apple 3gs runs software of apple 4 and I think apple 3g also so no they do not force you to buy new device.
Also as said before all apple users get update from apple on apple rules and apple does not care about carriers.
You say you can not look at this OS as regression, you say update is doomed to fail due to high expectations that will never be fulfilled. Did you stop to think where are those expectations coming from. It is only normal to compare new OS to old one to see the upgrades, advantages. With WP7 there is only one smooth interface. People expect the same fitures that were in windows mobile, that all other OS makers copied. C&P, internet sharing, portable storage mode are just few big ones that MS ignored?! Why?! Why there is still no GPS software, it seems no big makers want to make one, that can only be Microsoft fault and do not tell me they care about customers because then they would be insisting for TomTom or copilot do one to complete their platform.
The only things I have read about other Nav software has been sketchy. And one of the reasons (real or not) is because they don't want to compete with whatever Bing updates are coming (whenever that is).
Not sure if its legit or not, but I saw it somewhere.
I will say that seeing Bing be so far superior on the other platforms is horse ****. If they want to do any one thing to make me more satisfied that would be it. Beyond that, as important as the update is I'm not going to cry about it taking this long.
Especially if it has to do with the carriers.
Bing navigation is **** that is it. It might work for US where significant number of people never leave US. However here in Europe, rest of the world as well people take their cars/bikes abroad and want to use GPS. Data roaming costs more then brick of gold so sorry that makes any online navigation ****.
I will not even mention fact that if you have basic gprs connection (the slowest) navigation will not work for sudden change of roads.
I have the dell venue pro TMo US. Just received my pre-nodo and nodo update today. I love you microsoft. Hope this fixes the wifi issue. No problems so far.
I've updated my HD7 to NoDo via the process of disconnecting data while Zune is checking for the update. Worked like a charm. I did this yesterday, couldn't rely on MS anymore to add my device to their batch process. The update is out there approved by most of the carriers. MS is the one that's limiting the update through whatever criteria within the Zune.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Maybe it's time for you to adandon MS all together. Chances are you'll be *****ing about them from here on out so why put yourself through it?
Maybe I'm mising something but I figure by now if it was ALL MS's fault more carriers would have pointed fingers back at them just to save face f nothing else, right?