Related
My girl and i both have G1s. Her phone uses DXtop and is not rooted. Her DXtop has the ability to orginize APPs in her APP drawer. I have been looking everywhere and cant find anything that alows my rooted G1 to do the same. Is there anything out there that can manage APPs in the drawer on a rooted G1 running cyan 4.0.4?
mijalex said:
My girl and i both have G1s. Her phone uses DXtop and is not rooted. Her DXtop has the ability to orginize APPs in her APP drawer. I have been looking everywhere and cant find anything that alows my rooted G1 to do the same. Is there anything out there that can manage APPs in the drawer on a rooted G1 running cyan 4.0.4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
modified launcher
Is Modified Launcher different (in functionality) than Advanced Launcher?
qwerty3656 said:
Is Modified Launcher different (in functionality) than Advanced Launcher?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I was thinking of advanced launcher but here are both of em. It's been a long day.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=538871
modified launcher
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=540880
advanced launcher
Advanced launcher is a home replacement. I'm interested in a theme or application that is not running over my original home but allows the APP drawer to be customized. Besides, it also states that it is not usable with Cyan 4.0.4. Any other ideas?
mijalex said:
Advanced launcher is a home replacement. I'm interested in a theme or application that is not running over my original home but allows the APP drawer to be customized. Besides, it also states that it is not usable with Cyan 4.0.4. Any other ideas?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not a home replacement like dxtop....it actually replaces the one you have
did you even read the op properly?
I'm confused by myself. So here's the description: u17 ist still the old version for cupcake releases. There is a standalone and a replacement. Both are for cupcake based builds.
Then there ist v2.0.1. It's the new version. It's for donut based builds. And it's currently only the replacement version, standalone will come.
So don't use v2.0.1 on cupcake based builds (like cyanogen's 4.0.4 stable) and don't use u17 or u17_replacement on donut based builds (like the cyanogen experimental branch).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i.e........ u17 is compatible with 4.0.4 but not donut
read the op and use the replacement version instructions to fix up your build
Launcher_update_17.zip
*can hardly contain anger*
I see now. Was misunderstanding the wording. I'm somewhat noob, but trying to learn what I can. Thank you for your help
mijalex said:
I see now. Was misunderstanding the wording. I'm somewhat noob, but trying to learn what I can. Thank you for your help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol dont worry. the stuff here is kinda hard to go through unless youve been here for a while. Can you add [SOLVED] to the title
B-man007 said:
its not a home replacement like dxtop....it actually replaces the one you have
did you even read the op properly?
i.e........ u17 is compatible with 4.0.4 but not donut
read the op and use the replacement version instructions to fix up your build
Launcher_update_17.zip
*can hardly contain anger*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for breakin it down. The way I was feelin yesterday I woulda struggled to do it.
supremeteam256 said:
Thanks for breakin it down. The way I was feelin yesterday I woulda struggled to do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe i know the feeling. When that happens I just go two weeks without posting
B-man007 said:
hehe i know the feeling. When that happens I just go two weeks without posting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to do that, but then what would I do to kill time at work?
supremeteam256 said:
I would love to do that, but then what would I do to kill time at work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hehe this summer, my productivity numbers fell by 133% at work thanks to xda
now ive found a way to look productive and artificially boost my numbers: interns
now they are up an extra 70% from where i was before xda XD
i had the same dilemma. i dont know how id kill time at work w/o xda
B-man007 said:
hehe this summer, my productivity numbers fell by 133% at work thanks to xda
now ive found a way to look productive and artificially boost my numbers: interns
now they are up an extra 70% from where i was before xda XD
i had the same dilemma. i dont know how id kill time at work w/o xda
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would love to see my productivity numbers before and after. Between XDA, Hulu, CNN, and some other randum stuff I might look up I don't know how I get anything done. Good thing I do programming so I can just say "Hey this stuff got me stumped." Also I know how to really drag out a project. Good thing I work with a bunch of goof off's too.
supremeteam256 said:
I would love to see my productivity numbers before and after. Between XDA, Hulu, CNN, and some other randum stuff I might look up I don't know how I get anything done. Good thing I do programming so I can just say "Hey this stuff got me stumped." Also I know how to really drag out a project. Good thing I work with a bunch of goof off's too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know what you mean xD
yesterday i spent 3 hours debugging another teams program. they had 6000 SLIC and it crashed on run time. I figured what the hell, im up for a challenge. well the whole program crashed because of one letter
fliers instead of flier
both flier and fliers were valid so it compiled fine but crashed when it was run. the exception being thrown was nowhere near (in a completely unrelated class) where the error was and the debugger on eclipse missed it completely.
turns out, the guys made bets on how long it would take me to find it. (i beat all their wagers. i told them to give me the pot or id report their asses. see, im super productive XP )
because of that diversion, i didnt get my team to finish their project so i made them stay after xD
B-man007 said:
i know what you mean xD
yesterday i spent 3 hours debugging another teams program. they had 6000 SLIC and it crashed on run time. I figured what the hell, im up for a challenge. well the whole program crashed because of one letter
fliers instead of flier
both flier and fliers were valid so it compiled fine but crashed when it was run. the exception being thrown was nowhere near (in a completely unrelated class) where the error was and the debugger on eclipse missed it completely.
turns out, the guys made bets on how long it would take me to find it. (i beat all their wagers. i told them to give me the pot or id report their asses. see, im super productive XP )
because of that diversion, i didnt get my team to finish their project so i made them stay after xD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Yea one lil letter, number, space, or character and that throws everything off. I've had to go thru line by line studyin everything to see whats been wrong and after awhile everything just blurs together. Luckly I'm workin on a couple different projects that use arbortext which makes everything alot easier. But there's those times arbortext messes up and its back to lookin at the code in text pad or word pad and wow you already know how that is.
So everyone is wondering why the Nexus One Launcher just keeps FC'ing, and how come the Droid can just install, and WHAM! it works. ANY ANSWERS????
the droid luancher is just a themed Rosie.apk. we already have Rosie (sense UI). the nexus launcher is probley having shared uid issues or something. thats just a guess though.
I think you have me wrong, Im talking about the native nexus launcher not the rosie 2.1 combo
use the open eclair launcher2.apk it works fine
jriley60 said:
use the open eclair launcher2.apk it works fine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
can you post a link
uumm not while i'm driving try "search"
iloveandroid said:
I think you have me wrong, Im talking about the native nexus launcher not the rosie 2.1 combo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no i was explaining what the droid (themed) rosie was. the nexus launcher is going to need opengl 2.0 to be fully functional. and to get it to instal ur gonna need an aosp rom. we had aosp build on the heroc forum but things went south with the leak of a .29 kernel. causing the drivers for touch screen to not be compatible with anything but htc built and modified builds. but before the .27 kernel came along i backported the opengl drivers from the .29 kernel into the old .27 kernel enabling the 2.1 opengl drivers which are opengl 1.1 for the msm7k devices. the nexus one like many other new devices has a different arch and gpu that alows them to have opengl 2.0. our devices just dont support it. the best lwp we can get are only lwp from the market that are half baked/ home brewed lwp. so yeah ther is a chance u could port one of the few builds that have support for the nexus launcher and other nexus goodies. but in the end it will be fairly buggy as it was on the heroc. ie Eris and heroc are basicaly the same devices. only a few minor differances.
jriley60 said:
uumm not while i'm driving try "search"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't quite follow, when you get home can you just PM me, sorry I'm slow today
Just taking a guess here, but this link might help you out..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=631894
ECLIPS3 said:
Just taking a guess here, but this link might help you out..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=631894
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Err, same thing FC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udGIhcaMB28
Seems to work fine for me now, with live wallpapers as well
I seem to remember that when the leak first came out there was some "issue" with the opengl that shipped inside of the update. That *might* be whats going on here. I'd suggest looking around for that thread, as there may be answers to your questions in it.
ya
I've been trying to say live wallpapers worked with the launcher2 from open eclair for a while..just not the wallpapers that ship with the phone
jriley60 said:
I've been trying to say live wallpapers worked with the launcher2 from open eclair for a while..just not the wallpapers that ship with the phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah the only real issue with the nexus one launcher that we had with the heroc, was the app tray was a little laggy and bothered a lot of people.
the lwp though were just issues with the stock lwp. like i said the ones in the market worked ok. some were a bit laggy though and would at times bring the phone to a crawl. i remember one did for sure. that was the "logcat lwp" i loved it but it was easily seen that lwp werent meant for our hardware.
but yeah i think its possible to get a few of the stock ones to work also. i cant remember what me a maejrep had to do to get them working. but i do remember them still being to buggy. but yeah most of the market ones were ok and would run for the most part fine.
I still cant find a working launcher2 someone please POST A LINK!!!!!!
iloveandroid said:
I still cant find a working launcher2 someone please POST A LINK!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THEY'VE POSTED MANY LINKS THAT WORK FOR EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!!1111
There's no need to shout.
The reason for the confusion is because hes on the earlier leaked 2.1 not the rooted 2.1
iamkewl said:
THEY'VE POSTED MANY LINKS THAT WORK FOR EVERYONE ELSE!!!!!!1111
There's no need to shout.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then could you point me in the right direction please
im not quite sure if ur device needs to be rooted or not, cause ive tried a few different apks in reference to the launcher 2 and all i get is FC's.
good luck finding it..and when u do, link me sir.
FireSokar said:
The reason for the confusion is because hes on the earlier leaked 2.1 not the rooted 2.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
X2...................
will some one pleas port this because it cant be to hard because the droid and the droid 2 are almost the same phone the olny difrence is the soft touch buttons,the prosser and the system partitons and how cool would it bee to have the droid 2 blur on the droid 1 so if some one is up to it be redy to do the easyst portting ever
_________________
droid 1
UD7 with gal s theme
bmx24 said:
will some one pleas port this because it cant be to hard because the droid and the droid 2 are almost the same phone the olny difrence is the soft touch buttons,the prosser and the system partitons and how cool would it bee to have the droid 2 blur on the droid 1 so if some one is up to it be redy to do the easyst portting ever
_________________
droid 1
UD7 with gal s theme
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
have at it
EDIT:
(meaning why dont you do it lol )
jamezelle said:
have at it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, can't wait to see YOUR release
why would you want to do that?
us that are stuck with it are trying to GET RID OF BLUR, enjoy your vanilla froyo
lol u always want what u cant have have
sp1kez said:
why would you want to do that?
us that are stuck with it are trying to GET RID OF BLUR, enjoy your vanilla froyo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not just use launcherpro. That should get rid of it.
ive got a port on my milestone, maybe the port can assist droid users as well somehow, if the right people try?
only problems i see, is that we need 512MB memory, and droid / milestone got 256MB which cause it to show many "Low memory" errors in the logs.
but becides that im sure the droid 2.2 kernel can easily be used with droid2 and solve problems i see when using it on a kernel 2.1 on milestone...
you are soo lucky!
i am very interested in your work dexter could u or someone els point me in the right direction to porting this to droid i tried porting your motosense to my droid because it looks like it works way better than zd well lets just say that failed badly but it would be great if u or someone els gave me some instructions on how to port this cant be that hard right almost all of the hard work is done thanks for your work
I like how the title of this thread is says "ported" as if someone did it..naturally I got excited. Boy was I let the hell down.
ya sory about that but it gets peoples and devs attention so it will happen
bmx24 said:
ya sory about that but it gets peoples and devs attention so it will happen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it misleads them, thus pissing them off.
bmx24 said:
ya sory about that but it gets peoples and devs attention so it will happen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The easiest port ever was probably the Desire ROM to the Nexus One, research before you write.
I've been asking to get Blur ported from the X for a while but no one has done it. Its to the point where i might offer to pay someone to do it.
i was talking to jamezelle on twitter and he said h might just do it some time but not untill sense ui 2.2 port is finished and let me sayit is great almost a daly driver so the guy isint dum and knowes how to port and theres a port for the milestone so it will be really easy
ataranine said:
I like how the title of this thread is says "ported" as if someone did it..naturally I got excited. Boy was I let the hell down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, right?!
if only this really did get a devs attention. Maybe we could get jamezelle to help wen he finishes his sense rom...
he said he knowes how and it allredy has ben done for the milestone so all of the hard work is all done
wait, the blur from the d2 or dx, or the old motoblur?
I was thinking about porting it, but its only 2.1 so its pointless.
If not then .
Here a suggestion for Sense ui 2.2 os roms for htc hero with these features:
That everything work like:
3d acceleration
USB tether
720p video recording on camcorder in hd recording.
Mobile hotspot
Notification Leds
Wifi
Gps
Bluetooth to work.
Sync
Open el for Live wallpaper( please installed the original live wallpaper from nexus one to this rom)
Text to speech
Camcorder
Camera
All Htc sense widgets and apps
Htc sense user interface
Pinch to zoom,double tap.
All Google Apps.
270/90 degree rotation.
Android 2.2 os apps:
Car Home
Google earth
Google chrome to phone
Apps i want you guys to remove are:
Sprint apps and Amazon
Hopefully u guys can allow us to have 100mb to 110 mb of free internal memory.
Wow..... 10chars
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=846493
That sense roms doesnt have the camera working. I want a rom that they can fix that problem.
Thanks for helping though.
add119 said:
That sense roms doesnt have the camera working. I want a rom that they can fix that problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well get in line dude... we all do. There is not one.
add119 said:
That sense roms doesnt have the camera working. I want a rom that they can fix that problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow, i would get to work porting that now that you have offended 3/4's of this communities devs
Bro i didn't ment to offend anyone here.
Im just saying i want a fully function roms that work with all those features, plus hot swapping sd card too! Sorry if im asking to much.
they are working on it these things take time its not just a copy and paste feature they can do for it to work
I know bro hopefully by Christmas or New Year Eve they can have them mostly done.
Im guessing this guy is a troll.
gg.
Im not a troll and your cyber bully i'm guessing right?
I cant even voice my opinion in here, without people saying something negative here.
Tipharet said:
Im guessing this guy is a troll.
gg.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you get it. As far as roms go there is no such thing as custom requests. The fantastic devs here do what the can do with what they have. They give us the best they can. And because they are the ones who put in the hard work they choose how a Rom gets put together. The rest of us non devs must be thankful for what they give is cause without their hardwork, we would have nothing.
If you want what your asking for, you will have to a. Wait. Or b. Learn to code yourself.
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
wow this thread is amazing
bro
i want a pony
add119 said:
If not then .
Here a suggestion for Sense ui 2.2 os roms for htc hero with these features:
That everything work like:
3d acceleration
USB tether
720p video recording on camcorder in hd recording.
Mobile hotspot
Notification Leds
Wifi
Gps
Bluetooth to work.
Sync
Open el for Live wallpaper( please installed the original live wallpaper from nexus one to this rom)
Text to speech
Camcorder
Camera
All Htc sense widgets and apps
Htc sense user interface
Pinch to zoom,double tap.
All Google Apps.
270/90 degree rotation.
Android 2.2 os apps:
Car Home
Google earth
Google chrome to phone
Apps i want you guys to remove are:
Sprint apps and Amazon
Hopefully u guys can allow us to have 100mb to 110 mb of free internal memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should just go buy an EVO.
Your post makes it seems like the devs don't have it ready already b/c someone like you hasn't specified a brilliant list of things to include.
Plus, your post should be in the GENERAL or Questions thread, not this DEV thread.
If i had alot of money trust me i wouldnt be using an htc hero i would gotten the g2 by now.
I dont like htc evo. 1. It doesnt support 16 million pixels color, just like the rest of android phones since the original droid that came out in 2009(Nexus one,htc desire, Htc desire hd,Htc legend,Htc wildfire,Samsung galaxy and behold 2 series,G2,Mt4g,droidx,droid incredible,droid 2 and Defy).
Let's keep it friendly in here everyone
Sent from my hero running froyo... take that Sprint!
Thank god you came here people here want to criticize.
If you guys want to waste money then, that good for you.
Im waiting for another android phone with specs like this 10 megapixes,Front face camera,1020 p video recording and 32gb internal memory. Hopefully in 2012 it can happen.
theimpaler747 said:
Let's keep it friendly in here everyone
Sent from my hero running froyo... take that Sprint!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
add119 said:
Thank god you came here people here want to criticize.
If you guys want to waste money then, that good for you.
Im waiting for another android phone with specs like this 10 megapixes,Front face camera,1020 p video recording and 32gb internal memory. Hopefully in 2012 it can happen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This guy is so good they are going to make a custom resolution video camera for him how do I get on that list
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
I dont know lol . A guys can dream cant he??
thoughtlesskyle said:
This guy is so good they are going to make a custom resolution video camera for him how do I get on that list
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sheet I want mine to turn into a transformer. And I wanted it last week! Impaler make it so.....
If you have a problem talk to my butt. Cause he is the only one that gives a crap!
Today Klutsh released psfServiceMod, which allows you to use an android device to downgrade a ps3. It currently supports most popular android phones.... now including the Droid Inc!
The latest release, 3.2, has everything fixed! I've had it for about a day now and all is good, backups and restores are no longer broken and psfreedom works, grab it here: http://www.klutsh.com/download/86/[...card: [url]http://www.klutsh.com/download/25/
Things to keep in mind:
There is a possibility that you will lose the ability to play Blu ray movies if you downgrade, i personally didn't, and i did it twice. I have a launch model 60GB for homebrew.
If your on 3.41 and want an alternate method of jailbreaking, you might consider Adrynaline's psfreedom kernel.
If you want to use the kernel make sure you have the right one, there is a sense and cm6 version. When your phone turns on, you need to open terminal emulator and enter:
su
insmod /system/lib/modules/psfreedom.ko
This method supports peek and poke and can be run with the phone on, however, it will disable usb mass storage, and wifi. To fix this, just flash back to another kernel like incrediblek's or ziggys. This code will need to be entered again if your phone reboots.
me too, would love to see this!
Yes a inc port will be awesome.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Support, would definitely love this.
Sent from my Droid Incredible running Myn's Warm Two Point Two RLS4.
ahhahahahahahhahaha
not happening.
I tried with klutsh (who is a great guy btw) for over 40 recoveries and many custom kernels, he just cannot get it to work on the incredible. Done deal.
Get yourself a dedicated device. I got a used 1st gen ipod nano from craigslist for 10 dollars and it works flawlessly, all payloads and downgrades.
quepaso said:
ahhahahahahahhahaha
not happening.
I tried with klutsh (who is a great guy btw) for over 40 recoveries and many custom kernels, he just cannot get it to work on the incredible. Done deal.
Get yourself a dedicated device. I got a used 1st gen ipod nano from craigslist for 10 dollars and it works flawlessly, all payloads and downgrades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He tried 1 test build of the old psfmod. He rewrote the entire thing for this version. I really dont see the problem considering it has almost the exact hardware as the evo and both run clockwork. Am i missing something?
but, a 3.50 Jailbreak would be nice lol.
Im trying to get a service mod going, but i cant compile psfreedom.ko and if i do i get exec_format_error trying to run it. Im running a modded psfreedom kernel btw. Anyone think they can properly compile it? Or is it unlikely to work?
Is this different than Adrynalyne's psfreedom kernel? I'm just curious really, I never plan on owning a ps3.
DInc/XDA App
sucker4pa1n said:
Is this different than Adrynalyne's psfreedom kernel? I'm just curious really, I never plan on owning a ps3.
DInc/XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It must be. Ive been trying to use it to run the psfreedom.ko file but to no avail.
quepaso said:
ahhahahahahahhahaha
not happening.
I tried with klutsh (who is a great guy btw) for over 40 recoveries and many custom kernels, he just cannot get it to work on the incredible. Done deal.
Get yourself a dedicated device. I got a used 1st gen ipod nano from craigslist for 10 dollars and it works flawlessly, all payloads and downgrades.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the way to go fellas....I just checked craigslist (I already had a iPod mini that I use) and there are a lot of them on there.
KB
mikerulez121 said:
He tried 1 test build of the old psfmod. He rewrote the entire thing for this version. I really dont see the problem considering it has almost the exact hardware as the evo and both run clockwork. Am i missing something?
but, a 3.50 Jailbreak would be nice lol.
Im trying to get a service mod going, but i cant compile psfreedom.ko and if i do i get exec_format_error trying to run it. Im running a modded psfreedom kernel btw. Anyone think they can properly compile it? Or is it unlikely to work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You must not be able to read. I personally tested over 40 tries of psfmod to work from klutch himself. Its not happening.
quepaso said:
You must not be able to read. I personally tested over 40 tries of psfmod to work from klutch himself. Its not happening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, i can, I just do not give up as easily as you. Im not questioning you, but it just doesnt make any sense...
mikerulez121 said:
Oh, i can, I just do not give up as easily as you. Im not questioning you, but it just doesnt make any sense...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It makes perfect sense when you realize people smarter then you have been trying and not been able to get it going. This is truly a waste of everyones time to beg for something not happening. Get a device that works and move on, seriously.
quepaso said:
It makes perfect sense when you realize people smarter then you have been trying and not been able to get it going. This is truly a waste of everyones time to beg for something not happening. Get a device that works and move on, seriously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, first off, stop with your unnecessary attitude. Its because of negative people like you that things do not happen. Im not begging for anything. Quite the opposite. Im trying to get psfreedom running. If your not going to add anything positive to the thread, then dont bother.
mikerulez121 said:
Ok, first off, stop with your unnecessary attitude. Its because of negative people like you that things do not happen. Im not begging for anything. Quite the opposite. Im trying to get psfreedom running. If your not going to add anything positive to the thread, then dont bother.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're going to do it yourself? When klutsh, the guy who created, updates and maintains PSFmod for multiple android devices cannot get it working on the incredible and has given up entirely on it?
Wow, can't wait to see it!
quepaso said:
You're going to do it yourself? When klutsh, the guy who created, updates and maintains PSFmod for multiple android devices cannot get it working on the incredible and has given up entirely on it?
Wow, can't wait to see it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, no. Im trying to use Adrynalines psfreedom kernel. I give him credit on that, im not gonna touch my recovery mode.
mikerulez121 said:
Uh, no. Im trying to use Adrynalines psfreedom kernel. I give him credit on that, im not gonna touch my recovery mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Adrynaline lost his source for the original PSFreedom kernel. What he has up there is incomplete and cannot be duplicated as the original kernel. Do you see a pattern here? Im not trying to be mean, but seriously, there are better ways to spend your time.
I'll be looking into this tomorrow
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Oh..... that explains alot. And I guess that would explain my constant failures.. well thank you. Hopefully Invisiblek can find something.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Klutsh is a fricken machine, thats all i can say
got a working recovery image for the inc, ill leave releasing it to Klutsh though.
i would expect it to be here: http://www.klutsh.com/downloads/ when he releases it
but that can't be....it CAN'T be done! quepaso said it himself that it can't be done, and obviously he knows everything about the future!
Just like the ps3 can't be hacked either! oh wait.....