Related
I have been reading through alot of posts here over the last couple weeks.
There seems to be a lot of bickering, pointless debate, insults and flaming going on here. (I know am probably starting more with this post, but that is why I chose the off-topic forum) I know you get it on all internet forums, but this one seems to be worse than most.
I actually had someone pm me on something recently, I believe, because he was too afraid to make a post asking for help. I dont blame him. If someone here asks a question that may or may not have been asked months ago (therefore buried by 10 pages of more current posts) he gets flamed. I also notice he asks another newbie like me, instead of someone with a lot of posts, because they seem to be the most touchy.
And I know, that is why there is a search. But you know, search tools on forums like this are a joke. You are going to get a return of 1000's of posts, 99% of which have nothing to do with what you are looking for. And for me at least, half the time when I search, and I am rewarded with a blank page (in both mozilla and IE).
Just wanted report on what I see here. Maybe others see it differently.
Jimmy - not to validate your argument, but I disagree with you!
Seriously, I respond to so many posts, probably even unnecessarily so sometimes, just because I like the community. The vast majority of us are here because we enjoy the community and are like-minded gadget freaks.
You do get some flaming, some *****ing, some idiots, some spam, some divas. But the vast majority, in my experience, are very nice, helpful and supportive of newbies. We were all one once, and I hope that I'd rather say nothing then something unhelpful.
Anyone can PM or email me any time. I can't respond immediately, but I will try to respond.
The usual "use the search, Luke", response is normally only fired out when you've got a very new member blurting out things like "How do I switch the phone off?". My reasoning there is, teach a man to fish, he'll help himself a lot more then just filling his gullet with answers. But, for valid, non knee jerk questions, most people will try to help.
I think it's better no one answers if they don't know, and if they don't, feel free to bump. But don't bump twice in 5 mins - "COME ON, DOESN'T ANYBODY
KNOW HOW TO SORT MY CONTACTS BY FIRST NAME??!?!?!??!" is not a way to make friends with me.
Anyway, I could rant all day, but I think the board generally speaks for itself. Most are helpful, most are nice, most are here because we want to be here.
You get some bad posts, but seriously, in my year on the board, I've only had two encounters that caused me to contemplate leaving...
V
PS this was an interesting thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=329718#329718
I know it is not everyone, my subject should not have been why are people so temperamental, it should have been why are SOME people so temperamental.
I agree with you, if it is a repetive question, just dont answer. I just think it is bad when people are pm'ing rather than posting because they are afraid.
vijay555 said:
You get some bad posts, but seriously, in my year on the board, I've only had two encounters that caused me to contemplate leaving...
V
PS this was an interesting thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?p=329718#329718
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I gotta' agree with you on that thread, vijay. Those pics (the original ones) NEVER should have been posted. They provoked a LOT of ire from users and flaming, too. There's no room for politics on this forum. It's not here for that purpose and I felt like that was where that thread was heading. Even the world news networks don't show images THAT graphic!! Thanks for deleting them and putting that thread back "on course".
whos temperamental, you [email protected]@rd!
STFU! you think your so [email protected] smart, coming here and reading entries and you probably dont know your @ss froma hole in the ground when it comes to pdas....
whos says people here are temperamental?
dont know your @ss froma hole in the ground
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Gosh, in countries where you actually poo straight into a hole in the ground, this might cause some rather embarrassing situations!
V
maybe i hang out in the wrong forums or my level of what is hostile is wayy different from yours
but this is one of the most friendly forums i come in
or have ever come in (and thats a great deal)
i dont see telling people to use search and the likes to be hostile
personal attacks is hostile
Dont know what the problem is, sure once in a while people get pointed to search, wiki or spend some time reading. And yes once in awhile there are no flowers in that reply.
Sure even I have had the balls to move a post out of news and tell the guy to post in the correct, forum, read wiki and use search. It pisses of our other users who think news is news and not news being somebody asking how do I upgrade my device.
I have seen a lot of threads, a few things I did not like to see, a few I have killed. I have seen nice, not so nice and far form nice askers and also answerres.
In general you get a lot more help here than on other places (yes I have had to look other places).
But hell its a free word, if anybody thinks this site is not good to or for them, well its a click of the mouse to solve that problem.
Mean while will I point a user to the answer of his question which in fact is the same question in 4 different sections. Hum let me think about that one.
Personally I find most people on the forum very friendly. You always get a few who are a bit temperamental but that is life. But on the whole this would have to be the most helpful and friendly forum around.
I will have to agree and disagree with this.. i havent been a member that long and i did take the smart route, i actually read this board over and from top to bottom for months before making a single post, what stopped me from making a post right away was most senior people's complaints about newbs not searching, etc.. so i did just that searched and read... and here i am 3 months later of my first post and have made well over 500 now.. (i have point to all of this somewhere here ) This site can be a little confusing to newbs, but most of the confusion comes from other newbs making the same posts over and over again, you might search for one thing and come up with 50 posts of the same problem, however 49 of them are flames telling them to search to find the answer... and this is where it also gets frustrating for the senior people, people who have already answered this once before causing the temperamental flames.. Now i do try to answer what i can, we were all newbs once and i still consider myself one and i answer many pm's of people who are afraid to be flamed (which if they would have searched they would have found the answer) but im also not their personal wiki... ok, im done, oh yeah, vote for me for president
I agree with jimmy hauser
I came here from treocentral, which was much more supportive on average. Sure, there are some good-spirited and helpful people here, but it is overall much more antagonistic than treocentral.
As a practical matter, the search engine isn't very good and the recent upgrade of the forum didn't make it easier. It took me a few weeks to think of googling with the site:xda-developers.com, identifying the appropriate thread and then searching for that specific threads. Otherwise, one gets too much. Yes, we all find it annoying when someone starts a new thread that has already been answered fifty times, but on the other hand, there are pretty many 20+ page threads. It might be helpful to suggest to someone what they should have searched for, and try the search to see if it works. Just today I was trying to find the registry tweak that would eliminate the roaming indicator, but I couldn't remember what the thing did, so it took forever to find the registry tweak, and this for something I knew I had read on the board at some point in the past.
Here is what I think is actually better than most sites: the wiki. The wikis are uniformly high quality and some people have written fabulous how-tos.
My pet theory is that it is windows at fault. Things like activesync being so hilariously dysfunctional and the X meaning minimize on the PPC cause tempers to rise just a little too easily. Palm users are happier.
On the other hand, without XDA-developers, my MDA would have been approximately useless. The list of problems that were answered, either directly or indirectly, here is huge. Everything from ROM upgrades to TodayAgenda to 2.47 radio rom to wifi settings to wm5newmenu, I got them here. It is a wonderful resource.
I came here from esato, former sony ericsson user ditched it with the p990
if you really want to get flamed say I didn't like the p990 on esato or god forbid the tytn is better than it (I had both got rid of the p990) basically compare anything or say anything is better than a S.E. phone and you'll get your diehard fanboys by the dozens.
anyways some people get flamed here beacuse they are total noobs who don't bother to read anything, I agree they shouldn't get flamed that bad but they should do a little reading, there is a wealth of information in these forums,
as for asking I try to reply to anyone who asks something I know and if anybody needs anything please feel free to pm me I will answer when I can, although posting a forum gives more views as well as future reference for future noobs
I think this site provides so much useful information and it has kept many devices going when they would have gone in the bin. It has allowed a lot of older devices to still have the current operating system. I think half the time people have got home from work and are on a short fuse any way and any little thing pushes them over the edge and that is what causes the bickering. Just my thoughts on the matter.
darky said:
anyways some people get flamed here beacuse they are total noobs who don't bother to read anything, I agree they shouldn't get flamed that bad but they should do a little reading, there is a wealth of information in these forums,
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I'm not sure if I'm the "temperamental" one here, but yes, that is a very annoying thing. They act as if the members here are google, and they just type in a search sentence "Nood here, please give me a clear, step-by-step, easy to flash my ROM", click a button, and you get the answer. Not to mentioned the lack of information they provide, which can be potentially harmful to them consider they don't even know which ROM to get. And when things go wrong, they will post a new thread with the title "Pleeeeaazzz help".
The another annoying thing is the lack of information. Some members will post problems with so little information that they delay the solution to their very own questions, and annoying for the helpers. Eg. "I downloaded the flash software and ROM, but now the phone won't start, please help". Then, you try to be helpful and suggest "Why don't you try program X?". Later, you will get the answer "Oh, I've already tried that, won't work. Any other suggestion?" .. I will be like.. why don't you said so in your first post? ggrrrr..
Anyway, now I've developed an habbit of ignoring such posts. Those (a) Step by step guide for total nood (b) Thread with Pleeazzz help title (c) Post with lack of information. This will make me.. less "temperamental", I guess.
Anyway, as for the Wiki, I still thinks there are not enough information in the Wiki, such that it makes members difficult to point noobs to simple/common tasks. And, it also makes the non-noobs (the oldies ) going around the search function to answer something that they've forgot. So, for those who are happy to help others, please contribute yourself to the Wiki. Personally, I think it is much more influential to get one thing onto the Wiki than answering 10 PMs. And you get to point them to the Wiki if the same problem surfaced.
I'm temperamental beware
Well I remember when I got my MDAIII back over a year ago and came across this site thanks to google. So like a noob that I was and in many areas still our I posted one of those "how do I upgrade my german MDAIII to English.
Well I can tell you what has changed over the last year. Back then I got NO ANSWER, no falming, no use search, no use wiki.
So over time this site has changed and now at least you can get a reply even if this is thought by many as beeing flamed at.
Over time I learnt 2 things, one to read and one to use search. The reading I have kept the Search well that is a Pain in the ass. In the blue angel section (upgrade) do a search for "new rom" and you get Zero, its a bug we are working on it but it still sucks. Now in the same BA Upgrade section do a search for Threads by "MDAIIIUser". Here you get "New Rom" "new rom:" "New rom!" and the like.
Myself I have stoped the use search as I cant use it myself in the form that I want. Sad but true.
So what is the solutiom, for me it was then wiki, sure I had to post on how to edit it but with time I could even work it out. So from there I found out how to upgrade and posted it on wiki, found roms and posted them, found an unlocker, cabs and a bunch of stuff that I thought was cool of intrest and useful. So I posted it in wiki, edited it when new roms came out, ect bla bal.
Well Time moved on and I got bored after the 3 WM5 rom and well nothing else happens in the BA section the device is dead only sold by a few and thus.... I left it.
Now there is lots of grest info here, lots of great people that have found out lots of cool tricks. Its what makes this site, not the how do I upgrade or should I perform a restore after a rom upgrade. However noobs, newbies what ever we might like to discredit them as have a right to be here, I riight to the information and a right to some constructive help.
What we should all do is keep wiki upto date which is a lot easiser for a new member as he is driven by the quest of knowlege than an old member that does nto realy care in which direction his rom goes to as there is nothing new.
So I am not going to search the wiki pages for who finds this sites attitude bad but himslef has failed to update wiki, nor try to work out which users are helpful or flame.
All I am trying to say and now we get to the short version, is be nice, remember that you to were lost on this site and Please update wiki.
Oh yes, you will find a posts from me that just read "moved to XX (BA, Universal, hermes) but you will also see my signature which should point some people in the correct direction. Could I have answered all of there questions, yes sometims, sometimes not. So why don't I? well that due to the fact that some of us try to keep the site clean.
personally i feel the same way as the orginal poster...but i do see where some of yall are coming from with n00bs askin the same ? thats been answered before. i currently run a forum and have that problem sometimes. im no complete n00b just a novice with all this hackin/developin and i noticed i postd some ?s months ago with no responses at all and yes i searched for the answer and vj u had even posted in that thread but i never got a response. i didnt get mad....i pmd someone who helped me out the best he could since he was as new as me. i have found pm to be the best method of recieving help on this board....even tho at times "anal retentive" members dont even respond to say anything....no "f off" no "yea sure do this..." no "try looking here" just no response at all leaving n00bs to think i better not post if i dont know fully what im talking about.....i personally think the community would be better if everyone treated everyone as they would like to have been treated wheb they were n00bs. we all were at one point and time......shezzzzz......dont u guys remember? well all this is imho.
~mike
this does not apply to newbie's only.
i have asked about five times for help in here, responses 2
so i have been forced to read ,sometimes i find the answer some times
not.
pm several user for help. reply; 1
i receive several pms asking for help every week, i try to help ,but some people never give up. suddenly u become their personal google.
i got a guy now asking to write a a full tutorial in how to cook a rom. yea right!!
like an don’t have anything to do.
so I email him and said I was very busy at the moment, I would try to help when I had time.
following day got word from him. have you got time yet? !!!! now I get an email from him everyday. he says hi is in a hurry!!!!
faria
Love your newbie read this!
faria said:
I email him and said I was very busy at the moment, I would try to help when I had time.
following day got word from him. have you got time yet? !!!! now I get an email from him everyday. he says hi is in a hurry!!!!
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rofl
here is a good example of why people get temperamental
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1038017&posted=1#post1038017
Okay guys....this is the deal.
Right now I am pissed off by the noobs!
Me, Dr Puttingham, Faria and a few others..."the Gods of the Wizard Upgrading Forum" (if I can call myself and the rest of them like that) are pissed off, mostly because we got tired by all the noobs asking the same questions over and over and over again....
A few months ago this forum had some "higher intelligence" and most people did read the forum before asking, the last 1,5 month, they are first starting to ask and then read. Giving us the blame for bricking their "brand new Wizard"....screw that!
A few weeks ago I have setup a forum on www.molski.biz (www.molski.biz/forum) until now it has not been used a lot, not even by me, I didn't care about my own forum, I only cared about the XDA forum.
But right now I am thinking of moving over to my own forum, release my Roms only on my forum, answer posts only on my forum, help noobs (that can convince me that they read, read, read and only then asked a question!).
The advantage me, my mods and my admins will have is the ability to delete stupid cid-lock, what's the best rom, where is my comm manager button and how can I see if I have a G3 or G4 Wizard questions. Only questions, tutorials, information that are worth posting will stay on the forum, the rest will be deleted without asking.
Using my forum this way will keep it clean, good and every post will be worth reading!
I also have the power to let new users only post a week after registration, ban them if they get rude and things like that.
Hopefully I will get the GOOD people of XDA with me to my forum (XDA Admins, please believe me when I say I DON'T wanna steal any member, but you have to understand, XDA is going down the drain if you guys don't do something about all the irritations of respected members very soon!).
So guys, please come to www.molski.biz/forum and start filling it, so me and others can join in an active way!
Regards,
Molski
Molski,
I greatly apprecaiate your contributions, time and effort to this site. I have learned alot from your posts, threads and tutorials.
See you over at molski.biz
Molski,
I think there are a lot of people here that have upgraded to your roms and not asked the dumb questions.
I'm a noob, I read all the posts about using cooked roms for weeks before I decided to upgrade to your rom. I never asked any questions and I did not brick my phone. I find it amusing how many people did not read the threads and bricked their phones.
I find your rom to be outstanding, so if I have to go to your website to get a newer one then so be it.
Cheers.
wrongway2002 said:
Molski,
I think there are a lot of people here that have upgraded to your roms and not asked the dumb questions.
Cheers.
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True, but also a lot noobs that do it, also a lot of people that never post here are PMing or emailing me with tons of questions!
wrongway2002 said:
I find your rom to be outstanding, so if I have to go to your website to get a newer one then so be it.
Cheers.
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Thanks, I appreciate it.
Regards,
Molski
Moving On Up
I,ve been a maemberof you new forum for over a week and for one is glad that you and the other mods will be paying more attention t your site. Appreciate all that you and the others have done for all of us and looking forward for more the same.
OK I will join you
I am using your ROM (the older 30 MB one), and I learned a lot from you
Thanks
Just joined
I look forward to what is to come.
Kirby
The Gods of the Wizard Upgrading Forum.
I'm also a little upset by the some questions raised by some of the "noobs" as you call them.
...... Also I'm as upset by some answers written by the "gods" as you call yourself.
If you want to open up your "expert" Forum, then please do, but don't expect anything better. The way you're acting now you'll will always, in any other Forum, be annoyed by the less experienced.....
Don't worry that I will join yours because, although listed as senior member, I still consider myself a 'Noob".
Credit to Dr. P. whom I consider a "God of the Wizard Upgrading Forum", he always tries, although pissed of, to answer even the silly questions.
That Mr. Molski shows the true meaning of "Gods" as you call them.
here we go again...
it looks to me that if you dont dedicate youself to this site 24/7 ,you no longer are remebered or or appriciated , among others. all every one wants is take.
people have no idea.....
ho yes.... were da hell is my paycheck from xda from this month? ehehe
regards .
lets do it...
molski any news flash on combining ur work with faria? i used faria's new rom and it's fast but found it a bit unstable and went back to urs.
thanks
o yea... which would be the best rom for my wizard? (heh srry but i couldn't resist)
yaboc said:
o yea... which would be the best rom for my wizard? (heh srry but i couldn't resist)
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The best will be a 1.01 Rom from your vendor
Molski
Fine … take you whining somewhere else
As you can see I'm a n00b but as I have both a Hermes, a Universal and a Wizard I tend to spend most of my time on the Universal forum checking back here on an infrequent basis and I have to say that the whining and whinging that goes on here is enough to put off anyone for life.
It seems to me that you (Molski, Dr Puttingham et al) all want the glory and adulation of being the "Gods of the Wizard" (WTF) so jump in with answers to any questions that are posted only to whinge and whine about it later. Easiest thing is don't do it, don't jump in with your smart-ass comments about how someone is too stupid to own a glorious Wizard (hey guys, reality check, it's just a freakin' phone!!!). Maybe the upgrades won't come as quick if you leave but do you really think that you're the only ones with the "gift". You might want to take a leaf out of the book of people like Pof, Memaich, LtCmdrIvan and the likes.
GOOD RIDDANCE I SAY
I don't think it's a matter of "the new guy" per se, I think it's a matter of having allowed this site's IQ to drop to half of what it was a year ago. I grant you, I'm tired of this constant, endless "HELP I BRICKED MY PHONE" bull**** too but that's only a part of it. You also have people like that asshat "__s" and the oh-so-moral-minority justifying their theft of Agile messager. They have plenty of experience flashing their phones but they're still dragging this site into oblivion and simply moving it isn't going to help. Years ago I ran a technical site (not about phones) and I ruled it with an iron fist and it worked out really well. Oh yeah, there would be the occasional hippie who would cry about "freedom of speech" and whatnot but I'm not the government, I don't give a damn about freedom of anything. If you showed up on my site with the intention of causing problems, you were gone, end of story. And THAT is what's REALLY needed, if you ask me. If you want to show up and ask how to CID unlock your phone, that's fine. If you learn and then turn around and help others, awesome! But if you show up knowing everything there is to know about PDA phones and use it to steal, insult, mislead, confuse and whatever else goes on around here, you and everything you've posted are gone. THAT is what this site needs, not just the blind dismissal of new people, and THAT is, most likely, never going to happen here which is why I'm writing this place off as a waste of time.
Edit: Heh....see above. Just had to come cry about it, I guess. Buh-bye.
markgamber said:
I don't think it's a matter of "the new guy" per se, I think it's a matter of having allowed this site's IQ to drop to half of what it was a year ago. I grant you, I'm tired of this constant, endless "HELP I BRICKED MY PHONE" bull**** too but that's only a part of it. You also have people like that asshat "__s" and the oh-so-moral-minority justifying their theft of Agile messager. They have plenty of experience flashing their phones but they're still dragging this site into oblivion and simply moving it isn't going to help. Years ago I ran a technical site (not about phones) and I ruled it with an iron fist and it worked out really well. Oh yeah, there would be the occasional hippie who would cry about "freedom of speech" and whatnot but I'm not the government, I don't give a damn about freedom of anything. If you showed up on my site with the intention of causing problems, you were gone, end of story. And THAT is what's REALLY needed, if you ask me. If you want to show up and ask how to CID unlock your phone, that's fine. If you learn and then turn around and help others, awesome! But if you show up knowing everything there is to know about PDA phones and use it to steal, insult, mislead, confuse and whatever else goes on around here, you and everything you've posted are gone. THAT is what this site needs, not just the blind dismissal of new people, and THAT is, most likely, never going to happen here which is why I'm writing this place off as a waste of time.
Edit: Heh....see above. Just had to come cry about it, I guess. Buh-bye.
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BRILLIANT POST!!!
XDA-Idiots.....
I'm signing off here, my financial contributions and tech troubleshooting skills will be better used in the Iron-fisted Molski Forum.
This place has become a daycare for whining brats who spend all their cash on a phone they can't afford then steal the software they want and complain when someone else won't quit their day job to help them mod their phone.
You guys can shove your Warez up your __S
kyphur said:
You guys can shove your Warez up your __S
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LOL (i love the pun!)
................................................. oh and wait for me Im coming!!!!!!!!
rpwood said:
As you can see I'm a n00b but as I have both a Hermes, a Universal and a Wizard I tend to spend most of my time on the Universal forum checking back here on an infrequent basis and I have to say that the whining and whinging that goes on here is enough to put off anyone for life.
It seems to me that you (Molski, Dr Puttingham et al) all want the glory and adulation of being the "Gods of the Wizard" (WTF) so jump in with answers to any questions that are posted only to whinge and whine about it later. Easiest thing is don't do it, don't jump in with your smart-ass comments about how someone is too stupid to own a glorious Wizard (hey guys, reality check, it's just a freakin' phone!!!). Maybe the upgrades won't come as quick if you leave but do you really think that you're the only ones with the "gift". You might want to take a leaf out of the book of people like Pof, Memaich, LtCmdrIvan and the likes.
GOOD RIDDANCE I SAY
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or people could take a leaf of your book and say;
f*k it...
piss off etc etc . but then it would not be any info for you to read.
Wow, dem some strong words for someone who doesn't even own a machine gun...
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Instead of getting upset at the noobies, why no just place a passage at the start of every rom you post that "I will answer no questions about this rom unless it's a design flaw of some sort..."
Or "LISTEN YOUSE PEOPLE!!! IF YOU ASK SILLY QUESTIONS LIKE - SHOULD I UNLOCK MY PHONE - DO NOT USE THIS ROM AS YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING! READ XDA FOR ABOUT A MONTH THEN COME BACK AND ASK QUESTIONS... I WILL NOT RESPOND TO SILLY QUESTIONS."
I mean come on!!! Your an expert at this. You consider yourself a Wizard god! Of course people are gonna hit you up with silly questions... Youse is the man, where else are they gonna go? To the Wizard devil? Force them to the dark side? Come Skywalker, have patience with the younglings.
dkb218 said:
Instead of getting upset at the noobies, why no just place a passage at the start of every rom you post that "I will answer no questions about this rom unless it's a design flaw of some sort..."
Or "LISTEN YOUSE PEOPLE!!! IF YOU ASK SILLY QUESTIONS LIKE - SHOULD I UNLOCK MY PHONE - DO NOT USE THIS ROM AS YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING! READ XDA FOR ABOUT A MONTH THEN COME BACK AND ASK QUESTIONS... I WILL NOT RESPOND TO SILLY QUESTIONS."
I mean come on!!! Your an expert at this. You consider yourself a Wizard god! Of course people are gonna hit you up with silly questions... Youse is the man, where else are they gonna go? To the Wizard devil? Force them to the dark side? Come Skywalker, have patience with the younglings.
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The problem is that all of this has been done. The true problem is that the noobs won't read they download the ROM's and then ask questions.
rkwhyte2 said:
The problem is that all of this has been done. The true problem is that the noobs won't read they download the ROM's and then ask questions.
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Then in that case, they deserve to have $400 bricks. Reading is fundamental [any one remember that commercial?]. I just joined the new forum... Since I've been here, I haven't installed a ROM unless I knew exactly what I was doing. No one to blame but myself if I messed things up...
This is a request to all uses and moderators.
I would like to see three things.
1) Sticky's/Announcements in Kaiser General to the FAQ/GWENI/ETC. Currently these are listed in ROM development and not intuitive for a new user to find.
2) A guide for NOOBZ - while the above are invaluable resources, they don't address very basic issues. Things like:
How do I use activesync to install a CAB?
How do I do a basic registry edit
Where can I look for good software for x, y, and z
What does ROM, CID, SIM, XML mean...in general a Glossary
other basic tasks/information
I don't have the bandwidth to create such a guide right now, but if someone would like to volunteer, particularly a user who has gone through a noob to more experienced level using this site and is aware of the issues and pitfalls. It would be much appreciated...
3) A forum section for Noobz... As we have seen many posts as of late with titles like "I am a noob" , "Help me...","What software is good?",etc.
I think having this forum there would attract these posts better while appease the larger community from having to entertain these even in the general forum. Which, as some have stated should be a forum for questions not releated to the other 3, and not as a place for spoonfeeding.
If you think any of these 3 suggestions is a good idea, please post your support and or ideas.
thanks
Agree, sounds like a good idea.
My other suggestion would be to migrate to mediawiki as it just works nicer and the wiki may be developed more and be easier for noobies to get through!
good idea .. but i bet there will still be stupid posts by users who just wana be spoon fed.
thesire said:
good idea .. but i bet there will still be stupid posts by users who just wana be spoon fed.
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TITLE
Im a noob and need help
MESSAGE
You mentioned "spoon fed" how do you do this? can you show me. Is it a .cab and if so how do i install.
Thank you and please don't flame me
thesire said:
good idea .. but i bet there will still be stupid posts by users who just wana be spoon fed.
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I agree.
However many of the "senior" or more educated members of the forum seem to get quite upset at these "noob" and/or redundant posts.
There are three ways to handle a post like this:
1) Ignore it
2) Flame it
3) Respond in a helpful manner
Ignoring it works, and it is something ALL OF US NEED TO DO MORE. Remember, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. (The Internet is encroaching more and more into the realm of real life...it has been shown more than once that bullying someone on line can have legal consequences in real life.). However, ignoring posts won't make them go away either, as there will be more since nothing is being done to educate the user or point future users in the right direction.
Flaming it serves no one any good. Stupid users won't learn, and if flaming makes you feel better, just remember you are taking up just as much (or more) of the forum resources and wasting just as much time flaming a worthless or uneducated post. Remember, fighting on the Internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you are still retarded (no offense meant to the special olympics, or mentally challenged individuals...I have just always found this statement funny...and true).
Responding in a helpful manner should be the way to go if you choose not to ignore it. But, a helpful manner does not mean spoon feeding. Remember, "Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime." Proactive responses such as sticky's and announcments do the most to this effect.
As a "forum" in the classical sense, this should be a place for thought and discussion. However, it is also a gathering place for the masses. The leaders of the society should strive to educate and elucidate. However this can't be done on an individual level for every single post.
No man is an island either and to be part of the greater continent that is XDA-DEVELOPERS they need to have a modicum of intellect insofar that they know how to navigate an internet site.
I would feel better knowing that we have made ALL the resources available to the masses. This way we don't need to feel bad about ignoring any posts that we deem are ignorant.
I'm sure you have all heard the old saying about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results....
Rather than attempt to dispel "NOOB" queries by means such as WIKIs,FAQs and the like which clearly have proven futile, it would make more sense to come up with a method of allowing such queries in a manner that doesn't encroach on the sense of ownership of the forum that seems to prevail amongst the senior members.
bengalih said:
This is a request to all uses and moderators.
I would like to see three things.
1) Sticky's/Announcements in Kaiser General to the FAQ/GWENI/ETC. Currently these are listed in ROM development and not intuitive for a new user to find.
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As stated to you before but I'm stating so that more people can see it, I completely agree with this.
2) A guide for NOOBZ - while the above are invaluable resources, they don't address very basic issues. Things like:
How do I use activesync to install a CAB?
How do I do a basic registry edit
Where can I look for good software for x, y, and z
What does ROM, CID, SIM, XML mean...in general a Glossary
other basic tasks/information
I don't have the bandwidth to create such a guide right now, but if someone would like to volunteer, particularly a user who has gone through a noob to more experienced level using this site and is aware of the issues and pitfalls. It would be much appreciated...
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Also as you know, I have gone from newb to somewhat experienced almost solely through this site and I'll work on the bold part above this week and weekend. Here is my 1st attempt at it though.
boomermax said:
I'm sure you have all heard the old saying about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results....
Rather than attempt to dispel "NOOB" queries by means such as WIKIs,FAQs and the like which clearly have proven futile, it would make more sense to come up with a method of allowing such queries in a manner that doesn't encroach on the sense of ownership of the forum that seems to prevail amongst the senior members.
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I'm not sure what the point of stating this is?
We have a new idea...the noob forum. This is in addition to refining the current methods to possibly make them more effective.
What would your method be?
I also don't feel that the senior's assume a sense of ownership. Except to the effect that without them there would be no resources and thus this site wouldn't exist and thus be visited by noobz. I think the sense is more of outrage or incredulity the same as any member of a community would have when it accumulates members who have no concept of how to function in that society.
Don't you think that some people in your community might get a little offput if they had some native tribe move in and walk around naked? Performed drum circles at 2am every night? Dump on the lawns?
It is about community upkeep, and you don't have to be a senior to do it. In fact, some seniors may be counter productive. It is about being knowledgeable of your surroundings and willing to learn the rules to properly assimilate.
i love ur writing style bengalih ur posts are always so perfectly composed
I agree as well
I am not new to the forum because I have been lurking in the shadows for a while and have not posted anything as of yet but I have to totally agree with this request as I think that it is a great idea.I know that it would help me out a lot and feel that it would help others out as well.
I also just wanted to post this private message I got from a user:
(empahsis added by me)
Hello I'm [name removed] and I will be the first to say that I am new to all of this but I was reading a post and u had suggested that a "noobie Forum" might be a good idea and I would have to agree.
I have just gotten an AT&T Tilt and I have spent hours on top of hours reading in the forums here and I have to say that a lot of it is very complicated for someone like me who doesn't understand ROMs and Flashing and things like that.
I have read a lot of the post and to be honest I have had several questions that I could not find anwsers too after searching and have been terrified to post my question because of the negitivity and hostility that I have read.
The problem that I am having is that I am not understanding a lot of what is being written and am not sure what I should put on my phone or how to do it correctly.I am not stupid,ignorant,nor have I not taken the time to read and search things on this forum.
I am college educated and fairly intelligent but I am not tech savy or computer savy for that matter and I don't understand a lot of what is being said.I will admit that my phone is smarter than I am but I would like to learn how to use it more effecentally and get the most out of my phone and what it can do for me.
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I hope you senior/educated members take to heart comments like this and realize that although this isn't rocket science there are still many educated individuals that don't know where to start. Even after a user RTFM (which this user apparently did some), there is obviously a gap to get them to the next level.
We have to accept that this has become a place for the PPC masses and we can either ignore the pleas for help or do something to assist in the long term.
On the flip-side to you noobs... don't get over your head. You don't buy a junker or a tuner if you're not a mechanic, and you don't try to paint the Mona Lisa if you're just a dilletante. If you are in a position where you can't understand things even after hours of research you may want to get your feet wet in something else (like a basic computer class), or you can always buy from Apple . This stuff isn't for everyone, and unfortunately nothing we do will make it so.
bengalih said:
I'm not sure what the point of stating this is?
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First off I began writing the previously posted comment prior to your well spoken post above.
The ownership I spoke of was reference to the few senior members that feel a need to reply to every single post by redundantly pointing out the redundancy of others.
My suggestion was to avoid the attempt of "pre-answering" all possible questions. It can't be done.
Nor is it reasonable to expect all knowledge to exist on the same level. Take the analogy of communities that you spoke of (which I agreed with up until you equated elemental levels of knowledge with pooping on one's lawn).
Within all successful communities you have an acknowledged and agreed upon division of areas of education.
In other words 1st graders don't sit in the same classroom as upperclassmates...
...nor do upperclassmates refuse to graduate.
I think the idea of a noob forum sounds good, and I believe it would help separate many of the redundant posts in the general forum.......but at the same time, if those posts are separated so as not to bother the more experienced people from having to sort through them, then who is going to help them? Would we have noobs answering other noobs? I'm afraid we would end up with the blind leading the blind.
By that same token, if the experienced users decided to venture into the noob forum to help them....then separating the posts for the sake of not having to wade through them seems somewhat counter-productive.
Don't take any of this as a negative. I think putting together a collection of noob resources is a good idea, and creating a noob forum may be as well......I'm just trying to weigh the benefits with the potential problems it could cause.
I am probley the top flamer (IMO) and sometimes I flame and sometimes not. Mostly I flame people who you can honestly see from the question that they didn't look for anything. If I can find the answer in 5 minutes and you claim to have spent days, then I know you didn't search. As to the person that has read and still doesn't understand, please post. Most of the time those people come out and explain things in their question so that you can tell they actually have an understanding.
Asking a specific question about a step or a method in an educated manor is far better then say, I Are noob, what software should I install, oh and can someone literally hold my hand while I flash this rom on my phone.
If you're willing to educate yourself then it shows.
I know that I was nervous and a little scared before I flashed for the first time. I was on edge the whole time, but I knew I read over the instructions over and over.. I have read them again and again and I just don't see where the mistakes happen.
I will provide support if you need it, but you don't need it if the answer is right there, 3 posts down or if it's a well known thing.
Oh I wonder if you could keep that forum from registering in the search function.
boomermax said:
First off I began writing the previously posted comment prior to your well spoken post above.
The ownership I spoke of was reference to the few senior members that feel a need to reply to every single post by redundantly pointing out the redundancy of others.
My suggestion was to avoid the attempt of "pre-answering" all possible questions. It can't be done.
Nor is it reasonable to expect all knowledge to exist on the same level. Take the analogy of communities that you spoke of (which I agreed with up until you equated elemental levels of knowledge with pooping on one's lawn).
Within all successful communities you have an acknowledged and agreed upon division of areas of education.
In other words 1st graders don't sit in the same classroom as upperclassmates...
...nor do upperclassmates refuse to graduate.
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Click to collapse
Agreed. Although I stand by my "pooping" comment . The fact is that all of those levels of knowledge may be perfectly acceptable in some communities, but totally unacceptable in others (ok ok, granted not too many poop on their lawns...but not that far off.).
I think you are right that we can't answer all questions, but we can try. I think if we can teach the fundamentals, and then a lower classman learns those he should be able to synthesize most of the remaining elements.
For what they can't extract from their learnings, they can ask a question on. After all, most of the info passed around here isn't new, it is synthesized and rehashed in different forms applicable to a particular issue.
I don't think we can get rid of the basic posts, the "I am a noob posts", the didn't search for this first post. But I do think putting them in another question would help.
I know it has been suggested before, and I don't know if it is possible (I have been on other forums that can do this....) But it would be great if we could limit posting to the noob forum for the first 2 weeks of someone's membership.
Valtamr said:
I think the idea of a noob forum sounds good, and I believe it would help separate many of the redundant posts in the general forum.......but at the same time, if those posts are separated so as not to bother the more experienced people from having to sort through them, then who is going to help them? ....
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I address this here
ChumleyEX said:
I am probley the top flamer (IMO) and sometimes I flame and sometimes not. Mostly I flame people who you can honestly see from the question that they didn't look for anything. ....
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I think you are far from the worst Chumley...but as a genuine question:
Why do you feel the need to flame? Why not just ignore the post?
I am not stating this rhetorically to be preachy. I am asking to figure out how we can eliminate it.
Personally I sometimes want to flame back a flamer just for contributing something just as worthless as the original post, but I refrain.
I mean, if someone came into the ROM Development forum and posted "I am a NOOB, how can I please to update my phone!!!" I would expect and even welcome the flames there. If we have to terrify the users to know their place then that's ok...the second part of that though is we NEED TO GIVE THEM A PLACE TO PUT THEM IN! That's why I think a noob forum might help.
bengalih said:
But it would be great if we could limit posting to the noob forum for the first 2 weeks of someone's membership.
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But isn't that really the point that's being refused to be acknowledged?
This is the noob forum. Senior members who have already acquired the "upper" levels of knowledge are begrudgingly noticing that not every day is a day of discovery like before and are being faced with the choice of becoming teachers or finding other sources of higher knowledge.
boomermax said:
But isn't that really the point that's being refused to be acknowledged?
This is the noob forum. Senior members who have already acquired the "upper" levels of knowledge are begrudgingly noticing that not every day is a day of discovery like before and are being faced with the choice of becoming teachers or finding other sources of higher knowledge.
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I'm not sure of your statement of "This is the noob forum"
Are you suggesting that either the "General" forum or XDA-developers in general is now for noobz?
I would whole-heartedly disagree with the latter. As for the former, General is not meant for noobz, it is meant for anything that doesn't fit in the other 3 forums (e.g, not about ROM development, not about an accessory, not about a specific piece of software).
I don't want to keep stressing the name of the site is "XDA-Developers." Just because it may be bombarded by power users or noobz, shouldn't diminish the function of the site. If the attitude starts to become "This is where noobz should be" then I think you are going to see some real problems. The least of which is that if you piss off the seniors, they WILL go somewhere else and this site will become meaningless.
well I suppose it comes from many things. As a child I was bullied and now I find myself in a situation of assumed power. Or, I feel that because spent the time to educate myself, through all the grulling threads, I have the right to do it. And like a drill Sergent , I will not be nice about teaching you to fish.
Man I gotta work on my rep.
This is a petition to all winmo device users.
i think xda devs shouls make an axception to the htc only rule and be very nice and let a forum for samsung omnias be opened
the reason why i think this is because all of the minds here are very good at what they do whether its software development or just helping noobs and i dont want to go to another website were ythe quality of people is different
discuss why
jayjay8585 said:
discuss why
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Already athread about this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=420077
I´m sorry mate....
orb3000 said:
Already athread about this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=420077
I´m sorry mate....
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Haha.. What are you sorry about excactly?
us1111 said:
Haha.. What are you sorry about excactly?
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Sorry is to be nice to people here, as it´s stated on that thread, no matter what this poll says: No Omnia will be considered as this is an HTC only forum
That´s what I´m sorry
Have a good day
orb3000 said:
Sorry is to be nice to people here, as it´s stated on that thread, no matter what this poll says: No Omnia will be considered as this is an HTC only forum
That´s what I´m sorry
Have a good day
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Don't mind me for asking, but in what way shape or form do you have a say in this? I also liked the dog in the manger analogy in the thread you pointed at, a very smart observation imo. I see this kind of behavior also a lot irl..
Likewise
For noobs like me, an Omnia Forum would be perfect
It's so cute that you guys think this forum is a democracy.
If the Admins say no, which they have repeatedly, for very sound reasons, Then its not going to happen.
But This thread can continue if you like.
JimmyMcGee said:
It's so cute that you guys think this forum is a democracy.
If the Admins say no, which they have repeatedly, for very sound reasons, Then its not going to happen.
But This thread can continue if you like.
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At least that discussion is closed..
BTW. Can you please state the "sound reasons" for me again.. Can't seem to find them, not even in your sigs..
JimmyMcGee said:
It's so cute that you guys think this forum is a democracy.
If the Admins say no, which they have repeatedly, for very sound reasons, Then its not going to happen.
But This thread can continue if you like.
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Democracy No... never thought that at all...
Community YES. It even says that on the front page. A pettition isn't a demand, a threat or a power grab. It's not even a threat to your authority Jimmy. It is however a way of the comminity expressing an opinion to those who actually do have the authority and responsibilty of running xda-developers. Running a site such as XDA has to be an amazing amount of work. And the admin team are awesome :approve:
Now if those Admins actually do have very sound reasons for not doing this then fair enough. If those reasons are given then we can respect the choice even if we may not agree with it. If they were to say no, then it wouldn't happen (until they said yes)
However that isn't the situation that we seem to have here. Even with reasonable amount of searching I can't find any Admin actually saying anything about the subject*
*if such a post does already exist about "No to an Omnia forum"** from an actual Admin then I'd really love to see it. If "Sound reasons" are given in that post from an admin then I'll respectfully apologise and eat my words. If Multiple posts from Admins exist, with the sound reasons, then i'll even post the video of me eating those words.....
** and no a post about the flame in 2006 doesn't really count
psionandy said:
** and no a post about the flame in 2006 doesn't really count
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Aww, I was just about to post a link to "that" thread for you as well (jk'ing)
Dave
psionandy said:
Democracy No... never thought that at all...
Community YES. It even says that on the front page. A pettition isn't a demand, a threat or a power grab. It's not even a threat to your authority Jimmy. It is however a way of the comminity expressing an opinion to those who actually do have the authority and responsibilty of running xda-developers. Running a site such as XDA has to be an amazing amount of work. And the admin team are awesome :approve:
Now if those Admins actually do have very sound reasons for not doing this then fair enough. If those reasons are given then we can respect the choice even if we may not agree with it. If they were to say no, then it wouldn't happen (until they said yes)
However that isn't the situation that we seem to have here. Even with reasonable amount of searching I can't find any Admin actually saying anything about the subject*
*if such a post does already exist about "No to an Omnia forum"** from an actual Admin then I'd really love to see it. If "Sound reasons" are given in that post from an admin then I'll respectfully apologise and eat my words. If Multiple posts from Admins exist, with the sound reasons, then i'll even post the video of me eating those words.....
** and no a post about the flame in 2006 doesn't really count
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I never said that I thought this shouldn't be done. I never said I felt my power, what ever THAT may be, was threatened.
But It has been said repeatedly with EVERY device that was not HTC made that was suggested that, no there will not be a forum.
I just don't want you guys getting your hopes up, if this works out for you guys, great. But don't get disappointed when the pattern of rejecting non HTC devices continue.
Was I a little flip in my post? Probably, but that's my personality.
P.S. Dave, Please post that "flame" link, It shows the Pattern I am talking about.
JimmyMcGee said:
I never said that I thought this shouldn't be done. I never said I felt my power, what ever THAT may be, was threatened.
But It has been said repeatedly with EVERY device that was not HTC made that was suggested that, no there will not be a forum.
I just don't want you guys getting your hopes up, if this works out for you guys, great. But don't get disappointed when the pattern of rejecting non HTC devices continue.
Was I a little flip in my post? Probably, but that's my personality.
P.S. Dave, Please post that "flame" link, It shows the Pattern I am talking about.
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It's in my sig Jimmy (Non HTC Forum).
Ta
Dave
if enough people say they would like one perhaps the admins would recondier
and how come people didnt kno this isnt a democracy, it likes to make you think it is but it aint. like catholics
btw my job is so craps im reading the bible for fun phil collins acan write a lot
im at genesis 20
JimmyMcGee said:
I just don't want you guys getting your hopes up, if this works out for you guys, great. But don't get disappointed when the pattern of rejecting non HTC devices continue.
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Thanks Jimmy... I can live with that. :approve:
And If I sounded antagonistic towards you in any way, then that wasn't my intention either.
If it happens then I think it will be of great benefit to XDA-developers and to its members. If it doesn't happen, well nobody can say we didn't ask for it.
Why don't you create a forum oustide XDA (if not already available, I won't search it as I don't need it).
I mean why absolutely living here . If the Omnia community is so huge, it can be huge in an other place/forum, it doesn't need this very forum!
I think the whole point was to join a community with the sound basis of this forum as a place to bounce ideas back and forth across platforms regardless of manufacturer with the hope of improving the devices of everyone.
princy1 said:
I think the whole point was to join a community with the sound basis of this forum as a place to bounce ideas back and forth across platforms regardless of manufacturer with the hope of improving the devices of everyone.
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Exactly.. Well said. That is/was the point..
princy1 said:
I think the whole point was to join a community with the sound basis of this forum as a place to bounce ideas back and forth across platforms regardless of manufacturer with the hope of improving the devices of everyone.
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That's where you thought wrong. This forum was created specifically for HTC devices, and HTC only. Honestly, think of how many different devices there are out there, do you really think it's possible to maintain that many devices? Looks like you just joined, so I imagine you've seen very little here, as have I in only a few months, but everytime a new non-HTC device hits the market, a few people ask this same question, and receive the same response. Then the thread dies down after 2-3 weeks, and everything is back to normal. There are reasons why this forum sticks to HTC only, and I'm sure it's not going to change every time a group of people get a different device.
So, I'm not sure where you got your idea of the community, but just with any other forum out there, it's information and users are directed towards one general idea, and this one happens to be HTC devices.
There is another big Forum dedicated to the Samsung Omnia:
http://www.modaco.com/category/342/i900-omnia-http-i900-modaco-com/
It is very sad that xda-developers will lose importance due to more and more non-htc devices being released (Samsung, Sony Ericcson...).
Is it just me or is the lack of Froyo turning some people on this forum into total dicks? The flaming, ASCII text, FFS comments, etc. Is it past your bed time? Is it you're taking your home or job stress out on other people? Grow up and be considerate of people once in a while.
I spent a year on the Incite forum; it wasn't as bad. Then I spent 6 months on the Pure forum and still didn't see this type of abuse. I read the whole congition forum before jumping and didn't see it this bad. It's just here in the general section. Something about this forum, phone or android is making its users very sour!
People ask for help or fire off questions without due process. Deal with it! Some people search better than others and some people don't empower themselves at all and just fire off questions before letting them sink in. I've been doing tech support for over a decade and know people come in all types. That's why we have Call in, KB's, Forums, Email, WebEx, etc... For modifying your phone or voiding your warranty; we have forums so accept everyone as they come. You stop posting your dumb ass comments and it will filter into the older pages. A simple already posted or subtle link to something already posted is more than sufficient.
It's just you.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk
It's just you. The forum has been very helpful to me.
People flame you if you ask something stupid or obvious. "Deal with it!!"
Edit: Added quotations.
Just you.
If you search from the top level of the captivate forums it searches all sub forums. Your the one with all the exclamation points. If you work in a tech support field, you should really have thicker skin then you are demonstrating.
Moved to Q&A.
Also toning the language down in the first post a tad wouldn't hurt. You can get the same point across without being quite so confrontational.
People can be dicks about it..but they have every right to be when one someone asked a question that has been asked 20 times already,sometimes just 1 or 2 post back from where the question is asked. I understand people get in a hurry..don't read the instructions..the dog ate their homework..but come-on..
Mac
+1 For It's Just You.
Every forum has factions that are smart asses or outright asses.
For the most part this forum is great and extremely helpful and i don't see any different tenor here than any other forum i have frequented.
+ a majority of people here have already been running froyo for sometime....so there is no lack.
+1 for its just u. I found this forum very helpful.
Edit: I never so far had to wait for even a couple hours before someone answered any question/request I posted here..
Wow.... That's all I'm saying...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
XDA >>>> androidforums.com
All I ever read on androidforums are people crying about when Froyo is released. ATT this, Samsung that, no Froyo cryyyyyy. And then none of them will flash a leaked Froyo build. It's like they are all so excited for the OTA to come full of AT&T apps which they'll just try and remove anyway.
It must be me.
The votes are in. It's just me
norcal einstein said:
XDA >>>> androidforums.com
All I ever read on androidforums are people crying about when Froyo is released. ATT this, Samsung that, no Froyo cryyyyyy. And then none of them will flash a leaked Froyo build. It's like they are all so excited for the OTA to come full of AT&T apps which they'll just try and remove anyway.
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To be fair, I do expect the official build to fix a lot of bugs we're having with the leaked roms, so I can see why people would be waiting for the official release. There's a whole thread in the general section about froyo problems, most of which haven't been resolved in the custom roms.
shawnl01 said:
The votes are in. It's just me
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lol... even still, i feel ya though.
When I first got my captivate I stumbled onto some Evo forums and thought that some of the conversations where quite a bit nastier than here. I was very pleased and thankful that I didn't have to deal with that while trying to decipher the unwritten language that seems to be somewhat unique to each Android device (which, IMO makes it hard to search for items with unfamiliar concepts or procedures and why we have people asking the same questions over and over... you know, besides just being lazy).
But I definitely don't think that's not as true anymore. It won't stop my addiction to reading, learning, and flashing new roms and kernels though!