I ran across this about a week ago on one of the many other XDA forums (can't remember which one now).
It is an updated version of Odin3, version 1.30.
All the existing ROM's that I see packaged here that require Odin to flash are bundling Odin3 v1.00, and it seems people have tons of problems with that version. I myself have v1.00 stall/hang more often than it works when flashing.
I figured it'd be a good idea to have a Dev thread on this for several reasons.
1). For people to post feedback on it relative to Odin3 v1.00
2). To find out precisely where this came from, and whether or not it's the most current version.
Odin3 v1.30 works insanely better for me as it hasn't once hung on a flash for me......(yet), though given the differences we all experience in Windows versions (XP, 2003, Vista, 7, x86, x64, etc..) and differences in USB chipset hardware I figure it'd be a good thing to have some feedback and discussion about it's relative merits or lack thereof.
(i.e. Just because *I* think it's way better doesn't necessarily mean that it is)
I do know one thing for certain. If we can all discover a safer way to flash we'll all significantly reduce our chance of bricking our lovely phones.
(note: I figured it'd be a good idea to cross-post this here as it's gotten a bit buried over in Themes and Apps, and Odin3 is a Dev tool of sorts...)
Thx for posting this here
Thx I'll try it out when it comes time
Going to give this a try shortly. Will update on how it goes.
***
Used it to revert to stock then to flash the JI2 modem over FrankinTwiz w/KingKlick's kernel and worked flawlessly.
** Using the drivers found in the Dev section w/Win7 64
I was having problems flashing Eugenes modem.bin through odin. Froze 3 times nearly bricking phone.
I was on win 7, 64bit.
Hope this new version helps
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk
I have been using this since this weekend. I have used it to flash my phone 20 times or so. It works just fine. However, I never had a problem with v1.0, so YMMV.
By the way, what are the DLL files in there used for? I just deleted them.
Thanks for this, added to the bible under useful links.
in regards to 1.3, yes, it works, however 1.0 is still the most stable.
krylon360 said:
in regards to 1.3, yes, it works, however 1.0 is still the most stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've found the exact opposite to be true. But I don't mention that to be contentious. One unique aspect perhaps of my Windows machines is they're all running x64 versions of Windows (1 Vista box, 2 "7" boxes).
I easily get 70 plus percent fail to flash rates with v1.00 (meaning the flash stalls, almost always at the beginning of the flash), but this may merely be a symptom of the Samsung x64 drivers playing nicer with 1.30 and not Odin3 at all.
So far out of a dozen and a half or so flashes using 1.30, I've had zero failures that resulted in me having to re-engage download mode or face the dreaded "OMGIBRICKEDMYPHONE" screen. I did have one FAIL notice once, but Odin didn't lock up like it always does for me with v1.00, and all it took was disconnecting/reconnecting the phone and clicking START again and all was well.
The plot thickens.
I have flashed with 1.0 probably 40 or so times, and flashed with 1.3 probably 15 to 20 times, and I have never had a fail on either.
I would say that an Odin fail is directly tied to the stability of your computer. I would run a spy-ware check and/or check for driver problems.
t1n0m3n said:
I have flashed with 1.0 probably 40 or so times, and flashed with 1.3 probably 15 to 20 times, and I have never had a fail on either.
I would say that an Odin fail is directly tied to the stability of your computer. I would run a spy-ware check and/or check for driver problems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it weren't happening consistently on three spyware free x64 machines, running Samsung's WHQL Certified x64 drivers, I'd tend to agree with you.
And it doesn't take a lot of walking through brick threads here and in the other dev forums on XDA to see it's quite the common occurrence. But like your experience it does seem that people have either zero problems or nothing but problems, with little middle ground.
And don't take this the wrong way, or as me grandstanding, but I built my first computer 28 years ago...with a soldering iron. I've worked professionally in the industry for two decades. It's only Android that's relatively new to me. I've already thought through the likelihood of spyware and other possible resource conflicts and came up empty.
At this point I'm leaning towards this being an x64 environment issue exacerbating the already well known timing issues with Odin3, but that's still just anecdotal experience at play here. Given how wonky (and useless) WHQL certification can be, it could also be the drivers. Tempted to pull one of my old dual core x86 boxes out of mothballs to try some 32bit action and see if things change.
At the end of the day I'm just trying to discern what's the best Odin3 to be using. It was updated for a reason one would think, but it's hard enough finding useful info about Odin3 period.
masterotaku said:
If it weren't happening consistently on three spyware free x64 machines, running Samsung's WHQL Certified x64 drivers, I'd tend to agree with you.
And it doesn't take a lot of walking through brick threads here and in the other dev forums on XDA to see it's quite the common occurrence. But like your experience it does seem that people have either zero problems or nothing but problems, with little middle ground.
And don't take this the wrong way, or as me grandstanding, but I built my first computer 28 years ago...with a soldering iron. I've worked professionally in the industry for two decades. It's only Android that's relatively new to me. I've already thought through the likelihood of spyware and other possible resource conflicts and came up empty.
At this point I'm leaning towards this being an x64 environment issue exacerbating the already well known timing issues with Odin3, but that's still just anecdotal experience at play here. Given how wonky (and useless) WHQL certification can be, it could also be the drivers. Tempted to pull one of my old dual core x86 boxes out of mothballs to try some 32bit action and see if things change.
At the end of the day I'm just trying to discern what's the best Odin3 to be using. It was updated for a reason one would think, but it's hard enough finding useful info about Odin3 period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just fyi guys, im running x86 7 using ODIN 1.0 and still experienced about a 50% failure rate. Just food for thought. However as of lately I'm either getting better at hitting start or ODIN has been in better spirits. FWIW I will try ODIN 1.3 in my future flashes to see if there is any difference.
I've found that when you start odin v1.0 and when it finds your phone you have to work fast like 10 sec, put the files in and then hit start and it works well for me I'm on win 7 x64.
Vista x64, I never installed the Samsung WHQL drivers at all. I used the drivers that come with the Android SDK, using Odin 1.0, I have only had one fail, and it was my fault, i accidentally pulled the USB plug, lord knows how many flash's I've done through odin, been using it since theres been custom ROMs available.
I'm going to agree with its people's systems that affect Odin. Anyone who has done any kind of work on Windows knows that it's driver system for devices, while nice and simple in theory, is nowhere near as convenient when it comes to practice. Not too mention the hardware aspect of USB controller chips or North/Southbridges on the motherboards having some kind of high frequency interference, bad HAL level drivers, or just a bad chip creating data throughput or connection consistency problems... yet another reason to go Mac or Linux.
angryPirate12 said:
Vista x64, I never installed the Samsung WHQL drivers at all. I used the drivers that come with the Android SDK, using Odin 1.0, I have only had one fail, and it was my fault, i accidentally pulled the USB plug, lord knows how many flash's I've done through odin, been using it since theres been custom ROMs available.
I'm going to agree with its people's systems that affect Odin. Anyone who has done any kind of work on Windows knows that it's driver system for devices, while nice and simple in theory, is nowhere near as convenient when it comes to practice. Not too mention the hardware aspect of USB controller chips or North/Southbridges on the motherboards having some kind of high frequency interference, bad HAL level drivers, or just a bad chip creating data throughput or connection consistency problems... yet another reason to go Mac or Linux.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess the only problem with that take, is that you can count the reliable Linux and Mac firmware tools for Android on the fingers of one foot. There is one project running that I've been following. It's an early alpha and buggy as a roach motel at this stage (not disparaging the authors....it's the nature of being an alpha).
Coming up to speed on all of this out of necessity and curiosity I'm still going to lean towards Odin3 v1.0 itself as the primary culprit for a few obvious reasons. And even if it works reliably for many that still doesn't mean it is issue free. And with me even saying that I also acknowledge that the phones themselves play a significant role.
XDA Dev forums are a useful resource, and it doesn't take much digging around the other Android dev forums to see that timing issues between different model phones and Odin3 v1.0 are a significant issue. The subtle differences in the different Android phones themselves is as much an issue as the firmware tool, this much is painfully apparent. One gets motivated to do this sort of digging when one thinks they've bricked there phone!
There's also the obvious question. Why was Odin3 updated to a newer version? Probably to fix something....
At the end of the day I'm not trying to be divisive or argumentative here. I'm just trying to reason my way through this as best I can. At the very least we have another software tool at our disposal, one that at least anecdotally is worth using should you have issues with the older version of the software.
Out of curiosity I did actually un-mothball an old XP SP2 32bit box I'd been using as a dedicated StepMania system in my kids room (till they turned into teenagers and stopped caring about DDR clones), and Odin3 v1.0 works far better on that old hardware. Version 1.30 does also, but if your comparing the two on a system where v1.0 is already working reliably...well your missing the point.
Having said that, I know I'm in a unique position. I have 4 desktop systems, a laptop, a 3 Terabyte NAS, and a Home Theater PC, and a house I wired with Gigabit Ethernet because I roll like that. I also have spare PC's in storage here and there because I work on them and networks for a living. I have easy options many people who simply want to tinker with their shiny new phones do not.
More tools and less bricks = good.
thanks for this
masterotaku said:
I guess the only problem with that take, is that you can count the reliable Linux and Mac firmware tools for Android on the fingers of one foot. There is one project running that I've been following. It's an early alpha and buggy as a roach motel at this stage (not disparaging the authors....it's the nature of being an alpha).
Coming up to speed on all of this out of necessity and curiosity I'm still going to lean towards Odin3 v1.0 itself as the primary culprit for a few obvious reasons. And even if it works reliably for many that still doesn't mean it is issue free. And with me even saying that I also acknowledge that the phones themselves play a significant role.
XDA Dev forums are a useful resource, and it doesn't take much digging around the other Android dev forums to see that timing issues between different model phones and Odin3 v1.0 are a significant issue. The subtle differences in the different Android phones themselves is as much an issue as the firmware tool, this much is painfully apparent. One gets motivated to do this sort of digging when one thinks they've bricked there phone!
There's also the obvious question. Why was Odin3 updated to a newer version? Probably to fix something....
At the end of the day I'm not trying to be divisive or argumentative here. I'm just trying to reason my way through this as best I can. At the very least we have another software tool at our disposal, one that at least anecdotally is worth using should you have issues with the older version of the software.
Out of curiosity I did actually un-mothball an old XP SP2 32bit box I'd been using as a dedicated StepMania system in my kids room (till they turned into teenagers and stopped caring about DDR clones), and Odin3 v1.0 works far better on that old hardware. Version 1.30 does also, but if your comparing the two on a system where v1.0 is already working reliably...well your missing the point.
Having said that, I know I'm in a unique position. I have 4 desktop systems, a laptop, a 3 Terabyte NAS, and a Home Theater PC, and a house I wired with Gigabit Ethernet because I roll like that. I also have spare PC's in storage here and there because I work on them and networks for a living. I have easy options many people who simply want to tinker with their shiny new phones do not.
More tools and less bricks = good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said.
ok this might seem like a noob question but i'm a linux guy, haven't used microsoft in forever so when i downloaded the .rar for odin and try to open it , it says i have to choose a program to open it with. What do i do to actually open odin so i can use it?
You need an unarchiving program to uncompress a .rar usually winrar though 7zip will work as well.
Isn't there an even newer version of Odin, something like 1.4 or 1.5? I swear I thought I saw a newer version somewhere.
Edit:
Found it, it is v1.52
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8780525&postcount=131
Related
Hi folks. Sorry to start a new thread but there's something bugging me around here. If by any chance you mods think this post is useless please close it and accept my apologies.
It's known to the most of you that the first version of drivers didn't worked on all roms. That issue forced the developers to do a workaround and slow down the process to get it working on those roms and created a new set of drivers that is not so fast as the first one.
So... i was thinking on this and decided to start a poll in order to give a hand to the developers in wich way they should follow. What do you prefer?
A Gold XDA based ROM with fastest drivers and less compatibility with all roms? (forcing all XDA members to flash their phones - not a big deal i presume)
Or a set of drivers compatible with most of the roms but with slower performance?
I know this is a controversial issue and the urge of the drivers working on our kaisers is huge but i think we would have more if we had a custom GOLD XDA rom
Just My 2 cents
Cheers,
Draco
kinda seems like a no-brainer honestly (unless you're petrified to flash or just despise 6.1). They will develop said drivers and you have a million chefs making a million roms from them...
Fared said:
kinda seems like a no-brainer honestly (unless you're petrified to flash or just despise 6.1). They will develop said drivers and you have a million chefs making a million roms from them...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no problems at all flashing my phone. I assume that there are some people who are not comfortable doing that but.... this is XDA. And if they are here that's because we all want to get the most out of our phones. And that is the tricky part of this poll. Developing the drivers based on one specific rom ( a ported one form Diamond or Raphael or an official kaiser one ) will be the more accurate and fastest way to get there.
Again... just my 2 cents
Draco
first:
flashing rom is a non-trivial task for a huge majority of users. leaving them out in the cold sounds like a very selfish position. If not for this reason, maybe avoiding a flood of "I bricked my tilt, help !!!!" threads may be a better one.
second:
Anyway, as i understood it what is slowing down FPS in the new version is the enabled VSync, which yields less tearing and improved smoothness (sounds like a shaver commercial, i'm afraid). I don't know what the refresh rate of a kaiser LCD is, but anything higher than 75fps (ie 15ms refresh rate) is a complete waste.
draxredd said:
second:
flashing rom is a non-trivial task for a huge majority of users. leaving them out in the cold sounds like a very selfish position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all draxredd. Although i'm a junior member this is the second time i'm on XDA. I'm here for almost 7 years. Believe me, this is not a selfish position. As i was able to get some help to start flashing all of the members here on XDA will get that help too. The first time i flashed my first phone i was scared to death but... it's all the same. It only hurts the first time.
As i stated before this is just my opinion. The more roms the developers must include in the drivers development process, the more difficult it will be and much more time will be wasted.
Draco
haste... makes waste.
And if only one rom was to be designated as a target for the driver, it has to be the official HTC one, for two reasons:
- enabling driver support for a huge majority of users
- sticking it to HTC, deep.
draxredd said:
And if only one rom was to be designated as a target for the driver, it has to be the official HTC one, for two reasons:
- enabling driver support for a huge majority of users
- sticking it to HTC, deep.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about performance issues? Doesn't that count as well?
Anyway.... i've started the poll just to check your opinion against wide compatibility among all the roms versus one specific rom fully optimized. Let's not get far from the main question
By the way... my kaiser has the official 6.1 rom from HTC... for now
cheers,
Draco
I'm for Flashing myself, but the in the ideal world both sollutions would be best so no one comes off short. However the kind developers should be aiming at the most stable of the 2 first.
Looking at the driver progress it looks like theyre slowly getting there and getting the driver to work on the latest 6.1 roms
I voted for compatibility with the official ROM, simply because it's an identifiable standard that everyone recognises, and which everyone has on their phone by default. Cooked ROMs are great, but they're all individual, designed by individuals and used by individuals with the same tastes/needs - not one of them will suit everyone else, with or without drivers, whereas drivers released for the official ROM should work with pretty much everything else.
It's too early to say whether drivers developed for the standard ROM will always be slower than those for a cooked version, and I'm sure the very brilliant developer of those drivers will do their best to minimise any performance loss, assuming their is any in the longterm.
Vastly improved performance for the majority (and what that means for sales of the Touch Pro etc) has to take priority over a marginally improved performance in a niche ROM, aimed at an elite few, surely? At the end of the day it's entirely down to the developer what they do, irrespective of any poll here, but that's my take on it anyway.
Maybe i didn't expose correctly my idea.
There isn't any XDA Gold rom nor any kind of perfect ROM. The XDA Gold rom is just a concept and the first name that crossed my mind.
This is a big community and has some big brains around here. The exchange of knowledge bettween everyone is a plus and that opens a big wide world to explore.
So.... let's just imagine this scenario, ok?
The developers will pick a base rom. It really doesn't matter if it is a ported rom or a Official one. Preferably one that is fast and stable enough. The driver will be written over that rom. Users (those who want obviously) will test the rom for bugs and then chefs will try to cook out a 100% clean (note that by clean i mean a rom just as close as an official rom regarding to apps) fast and stable rom.
Of course this is just a crazy ideia but that i was thinking of. Create the first genuine XDA rom based on one device.
Note that there are many roms out there based on diferent releases. Make the drivers compatible with all of them will make the development process slow down and eventualy fail. That's the main reason i started this thread.
Now that the concept of the "XDA Gold rom" was properly explained (i hope) let's get on with the poll.
Draco
DracoLX said:
Now that the concept of the "XDA Gold rom" was properly explained (i hope) let's get on with the poll.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As long as "XDA Gold" = HTC Latest Official version I cant see a problem. It's when drivers are developed for anything other than the official ROM that we'll encounter problems. All the chefs can base their designs starting with official ROMs and work out from there. In the end it will depend on whether those developing the drivers want to satisfy the larger number using official ROMs or those using Custom ROMs where the chef has not saught to maintain driver compatibility. I've therefore not voted because it depends whether "XDA Gold" does in fact = HTC Latest Official version - we weren't told.
Are you even sure that theifference is that huge?
They might be able to provide two sets to cover all ends without much additional work.
DracoLX said:
Note that there are many roms out there based on diferent releases. Make the drivers compatible with all of them will make the development process slow down and eventualy fail. That's the main reason i started this thread.
Now that the concept of the "XDA Gold rom" was properly explained (i hope) let's get on with the poll.
Draco
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO, The drivers only need to be compatible with an official based rom. It's up to the chefs to make the drivers work with their rom. Now, if the root of the compatibility issue can be resolved, I think things can progress forward at a faster rate.
DracoLX said:
It's known to the most of you that the first version of drivers didn't worked on all roms. That issue forced the developers to do a workaround and slow down the process to get it working on those roms and created a new set of drivers that is not so fast as the first one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FALSE. Two separate issues.
First, is dlls load differently between stock or hacked/cooked roms due to memory mangling by G'realoc going into cooked roms. An attempt to fix that was in the updated release.
Two, the screen update style in the first release was really just a hack that hijacked DDI's screen refresh routines. The 2nd release finally got the 'official' way to work so the hack was removed.
I voted faster...there isn't any other reason I came to XDA other than customizing.
Anyone who doesn't want a faster cellphone won't appreciate the new D3D drivers anyway.
There are may reasons the XDA Gold Rom (HTC Original 6.1) may be slower. Cooks reduce the software on the rom and use newer software versions, these may be faster than the previous ones.
Also this software is not from the Kaiser sometimes these may be causing the incompatiblity problems with the drivers.
The HTC original rom is slower to start than most cooked roms anyway, so way wouldn't the 3d drivers also run slower.
I decided not to vote, I think speed is a non issue as long as the drivers work on the HTC original rom, and are stable. You will always get rom's that perform faster, that's what cooks do round here.
I also don't think you would get a big jump in performance writing for just one rom, the hardware is the same in all the HTC Kaiser's handsets. Software can only make small difference to the performance of hardware if the drivers are written correctly.
personally i would love the drivers in a rom like dutty's diamond v1, but i think building them into a standard(ish) htc rom is best for the comunity; it sticks it to htc best as it shows u guys can do what they couldn't(or wouldn't), and makes flashing a rom feel safer to noobs.
and anyway we all know within hours of a rom with the drivers being released there will be dozens of cooked versions for all tastes with the drivers included too.
What's up everyone?
(Mods, not sure if this goes in Rom Development or Software... I thought software... I could be wrong!)
Well I was looking at the massive development that has been made on porting Android to the Kaiser, and I started thinking, if HARet is a linux bootloader, would there be a way to use it to load a bootable copy of backtrack or the like?
Sorry if this is a ridiculous question... I'm not a computer engineer, nor a marginally intelligent monkey for that matter, so I thought someone with some knowledge could shed some light?
Well, you'd think it'd be possible if you somehow used a version made for ARM processor, but there are so many practical reasons that it wouldn't work well if at all. There's a reason that we're not all running Debian with gnome as our standard OS's, the hardware specs are simply too high, and so much work would need to be done to add drivers and get it booting. Even knoppix probably wouldn't work well. Plus, you can't really run a full desktop distro on a QVGA screen that's 2-3 inches across. In addition, Backtrack's whole purpose is for security and network penetration testing, and neither of those would work on a phone. You couldn't even get the WiFi chipset into monitor mode, let alone crack a network or inject packets. Even things like firefox would crawl at best. When you read this, you'll understand why the developers only port Linux distros optimized for embedded systems, like Maemo and Android; other ones simply aren't practical for use, and would be a waste of time to port. However, your question was a perfectly reasonable one (and you put it in the right section!)
If any developer would like to add further to this, they are more than welcome to.
Does anyone remember the video adobe put up demonstrating flash on g1? It's a video of kevin lynch showing flash 10 working what seems to be flawlessly on the g1, more than a year ago!
link--->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT__RDRVb4c
just a couple days ago cm6 got released and its running beautifully on my "old bed-ridden" so why not flash? i'm no developer but there must be a way to make flash specifically for g1's or mytough 3g's, after all the video is living proof. hopefully a developer can take the flash app from another phone running froyo and work their magic on it to make it work on our devices. c'mon devs keep the g1 alive
It really is heartbreaking..
Seeing this video makes me remember why I was bragging to Iphone users that have no flash what-so-ever... I remember this video now and I guess the G1 has the flash capabilities but, the app that adobe released is coded to only work on Froyo and Snapdragon devices.
I think their plan is to get us all to upgrade to the newer snapdragons or soon to be dual core snapdragons... Man I hate how technology ages.
Well from the sounds of it the Flash that is available now and to the public for Android Phones won't work on the older processors of the G1 and such. In it's current form anyways.
People keep throwing around that Flash is "not possible" on the G1 and I just don't buy it. I'm no developer and I'm sure it's not easy, but I don't for a second believe it's "not possible."
I could however believe that it just isn't worth it. But that's totally different. It'd be nice to hear a dev say they don't want to bother with the headache and that it would just be too large an undertaking rather than just hear that it's "not possible."
It is possible it however is not probable. As flash isn't open source it would have to be backwards engineered(unreasonable amount of effort) and recompiled for the arm6 architecture..far to much effort for something that would function questionably..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@Blackman778g
yea definitely agreed, but i don't see why not someone can screw around with a couple of files or code or whatever developers do and recompile to operate on older devices, or devices with different hardware. sure it's probably not gonna be an easy task, but if we can get a whole operating system that's suppose to cripple the **** out of our hardware, why not just an app? sense has done it, not in a specifically good way but it can maybe spark hope?
@dezvous
yea it'd be pretty sweet for someone to take a jab at it, and personally i believe the "it wont work with our processors" is a load of bs, because i think the phone in the link is running cupcake, which underclocks the g1 at 386 and it looks perfectly fine. now-a-days we can get to 725mhz without jacking up your battery, i run 614 and i just sit and watch it fly
@ftruck90
yea thats true, but it'll be cool to see someone try
why not dump adobe flash alltogether and work on an open source flash replacement, there's one available for linux, i think its called GNUFlash or something..
ps: i think this was already mentioned somewhere else on xda..
here you go...
http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/
Cyanogen has told us full flash will never work on G1. However, there's a think tank for getting flash lite to run in Froyo.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=7177455
Flash not working is not bs.
Flash as it is now was built for a certain processor architecture (The G1 has Arm6 where flash was built to run on Arm7). Its like saying that its BS that I can't run software built to run on PowerPC on a x86 processor. The PowerPC processor has different instruction sets that the x86 does not.
We need an open source mobile flash alternative.
That we could try to recompile for our devices and build a plugin around it.
Or someone disassembles the curreent flash froma dobe and recompiles it for Arm7...wich i don't think is possible.
i dont understand something. everytime i see one of these flash topics, every1 says it was never compiled to run on arm6 and everything else.... but how did this video come to life? OVER A YEAR AGO. that video is flash, running on a g1, pretty solidly too. and i mean...whats that...cupcake?
that video is pretty incriminating stuff if you ask me. adobe got some explaining to do.
but...if CM says it cant be done, i'll believe him.
CM said it can't be done (with the adobe flash)
What you saw was a (probably unstable?) version of flash compiled by adobe probably as a testrun on the G1.
Adobe CAN compile it for the G1 IF they want to.
What we can do in the meantime is ask adobe to compile flash for the Arm6 and hope that it'll make enough rucus for them to notice.
havikx said:
i dont understand something. everytime i see one of these flash topics, every1 says it was never compiled to run on arm6 and everything else.... but how did this video come to life? OVER A YEAR AGO. that video is flash, running on a g1, pretty solidly too. and i mean...whats that...cupcake?
that video is pretty incriminating stuff if you ask me. adobe got some explaining to do.
but...if CM says it cant be done, i'll believe him.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.that video could very well not be legit lots of companies release mocked up videos as ads
2.if it was real adobe have the source code for flash as it's their product so they very well may of compiled a version for arm6 and never released it. But as its not open source that means exactly zero to us. The argument isn't that it's impossible to run flash on this processor it's that it is impossible to run current releases of flash on it
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
mr.johnsexydavis911 said:
@Blackman778g
yea definitely agreed, but i don't see why not someone can screw around with a couple of files or code or whatever developers do and recompile to operate on older devices, or devices with different hardware. sure it's probably not gonna be an easy task, but if we can get a whole operating system that's suppose to cripple the **** out of our hardware, why not just an app? sense has done it, not in a specifically good way but it can maybe spark hope?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, you obviously aren't a dev. Here's the basic version. Programs these days are written in a more human readable format (called "source") and compiled into a format the computer can understand. Most compilers build for a specific CPU type, and the code they generate won't run on anything else. Interpreted languages like BASIC, Python, and Java either don't really get compiled, or get compiled to a neutral format called "bytecode". Then you need a CPU specific app to run the source or bytecode.
Flash is a bytecode language. That's why it can run on so many platforms. The problem is the bytecode interpeter. That's proprietary code that Adobe wrote and has not released the source for. It's also native CPU code, so it's compiled for a specific CPU family. Which is a somewhat retarded thing to do on a platform like Android, but they probably did it for performance reasons. Though with a working JIT, I imagine a Java based version would work. Adobe has never been known for writing very efficient code.
Now, the Flash runtime engine was compiled for a different CPU type than the one we have in G1, MT3G, and others. In order for the Adobe code to work with our devices Adobe would have to compile it for us. Or give us source code, which they will likely never do. Or we could try to write an emulator to fake the CPU type differences, but those are SLOW. The rule of thumb is you have to have a CPU 10x as powerful as the CPU you are emulating. Our CPU is slower than the one we would need to emulate.
Another option is to attempt to do dynamic compilation on the binary to translate it to our CPU architecture. This is an incredibly complex undertaking and is rarely attempted. There are just too many things to go wrong with this sort of thing. In this particular case, the existing code is close to the same architecture, so it might be a little easier, but it's still very difficult. You have to translate every instruction at the machine code level and account for differences in the available instructions, registers, size of data fields, CPU cache, RAM size, and various other side-effects that are not obvious at first glance. The devs here are good, but this is the sort of thing that billion dollar companies try and fail at. It's a LOT harder than it looks.
If you want flash, learn to dev and work on one of the open source Flash engines to try to get it up to snuff. Then try to optimize it to run well on our low end CPU and RAM starved machines. By then we'll likely be running dual or quad 3Ghz ARM12 phones.
has any1 tried contacting adobe about it?
Dead platform. Probably not worth their time and money to compile on ARMv6. As ttabbal stated above, by the time any of these solutions come to fruition, we'll probably all have upgraded.
I would say its definitly worth adobes or a devs time and money. Because even tho g1s are getting old. I would still pay 20 or 30 bucks just to download a nice operating flash player for the g1 off the market. There's so much money in it. Its sick. That dev would be rich fo sure!!!!!
sent from my superfroyo dream
dead platform
Ok, in the last 4 weeks over a million Phone with android and ARM 6 processors were sold world wide. So I would say that Adobe may listen.
It took adobe SEVERAL YEARS to support AMD64, and that was with the entire world nagging them about it several times every day, and it is an ADVANCEMENT from intel32.
Adobe is just a bloated hog, they are COMPLETELY out of touch with consumers, selling you the JUNK that they WANT to sell you and not the product that YOU WANT to buy from them.
To be honest though, LET FLASH DIE. I don't want flash on my phone, or, for that matter, even on my desktop. It doesn't offer ANYTHING that is even REMOTELY useful.
dhkr123 said:
It took adobe SEVERAL YEARS to support AMD64, and that was with the entire world nagging them about it several times every day, and it is an ADVANCEMENT from intel32.
Adobe is just a bloated hog, they are COMPLETELY out of touch with consumers, selling you the JUNK that they WANT to sell you and not the product that YOU WANT to buy from them.
To be honest though, LET FLASH DIE. I don't want flash on my phone, or, for that matter, even on my desktop. It doesn't offer ANYTHING that is even REMOTELY useful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. Is there any way we can make this thread disappear? I don't want another necromancer to appear after Gingerbread drops and people go nutso there too.
I don't want to make trouble, but I'm hoping there can be a dialog as to the viability of the Captivate as a long-term, stable cell phone.
Like probably everyone here, I found the ROM AT&T supplied for the Captivate to be practically (if not criminally) unusable even if I didn't care about my rights to do what I want with it (but I do). Thus I decided that I needed to flash it with something better.
Obviously, there are a lot of Captivate owners who work very hard (and presumably, enjoy) modifying and tweaking the Android system for their phone - and that's great - but I'm not one of them. I appreciate that people like to change the look of their <object> and that the latest-and-greatest functionality is an ever-moving target, but paramount to me for everything in my life is minimal maintenance.
I don't really care about flashy eye-candy and holiday color schemes if it is moderately consistent. I am not looking to squeeze the last 2% (or even 10%) of possible speed out of my phone, but I do want it to respond to my input within a few tenths of a second (faster w/ typing) unlike the stock ROM. I have to use a lock-code, so I don't give a fig about the number of lock screens. If I could flash my phone and never have a need (note: not desire) to do it again, that would be fantastic. If I have to re-flash it once every 6 months and don't need to (re)read long (long!) meandering threads with cryptic and often conflicting and (possibly - how to tell?) outdated information, I could live with that.
Basically, it seems like I have to choose between a fixed, official ROM that sucks, or a sea of ever-changing ROMs with stability problems and a lot of focus on look-and-feel.
I'm not here crying about not having the perfect phone experience, rather I'm interested in the opinion of you here, "in the know", as to whether there exists a Captivate ROM that is stable in both the short-term (little to no crashes or unplanned reboots) and in the long term (will function similarly for months when not tweaked beyond what say, TiBu or AdAway would do).
This is something I've been wondering for months now (as my Serendipidy ROM grew ever-more unstable), but it has come to a head now because my wife is insisting that I encounter so many problems with my Cappy (currently experiencing various problems with Serenity) that I need to get a new phone (and it should be an iPhone like hers). I am as jealous at her stability, battery life and lack of problems as I am loathe to sell my soul to live in the walled garden with the iDevil.
If the world of smart phones is really a choice among the walled garden, the astro-turfed basement and the slopes of a volcano in the jungle, then I will have to accept that and choose my fate. If the problem is Samsung/AT&T and Android is simply ambrosia on some other device/carrier (as my colleague claims), then I would love to know that too.
Sorry for the dissertation and thanks for the thoughts.
teknowledgist said:
I don't want to make trouble, but I'm hoping there can be a dialog as to the viability of the Captivate as a long-term, stable cell phone.
Like probably everyone here, I found the ROM AT&T supplied for the Captivate to be practically (if not criminally) unusable even if I didn't care about my rights to do what I want with it (but I do). Thus I decided that I needed to flash it with something better.
Obviously, there are a lot of Captivate owners who work very hard (and presumably, enjoy) modifying and tweaking the Android system for their phone - and that's great - but I'm not one of them. I appreciate that people like to change the look of their <object> and that the latest-and-greatest functionality is an ever-moving target, but paramount to me for everything in my life is minimal maintenance.
I don't really care about flashy eye-candy and holiday color schemes if it is moderately consistent. I am not looking to squeeze the last 2% (or even 10%) of possible speed out of my phone, but I do want it to respond to my input within a few tenths of a second (faster w/ typing) unlike the stock ROM. I have to use a lock-code, so I don't give a fig about the number of lock screens. If I could flash my phone and never have a need (note: not desire) to do it again, that would be fantastic. If I have to re-flash it once every 6 months and don't need to (re)read long (long!) meandering threads with cryptic and often conflicting and (possibly - how to tell?) outdated information, I could live with that.
Basically, it seems like I have to choose between a fixed, official ROM that sucks, or a sea of ever-changing ROMs with stability problems and a lot of focus on look-and-feel.
I'm not here crying about not having the perfect phone experience, rather I'm interested in the opinion of you here, "in the know", as to whether there exists a Captivate ROM that is stable in both the short-term (little to no crashes or unplanned reboots) and in the long term (will function similarly for months when not tweaked beyond what say, TiBu or AdAway would do).
This is something I've been wondering for months now (as my Serendipidy ROM grew ever-more unstable), but it has come to a head now because my wife is insisting that I encounter so many problems with my Cappy (currently experiencing various problems with Serenity) that I need to get a new phone (and it should be an iPhone like hers). I am as jealous at her stability, battery life and lack of problems as I am loathe to sell my soul to live in the walled garden with the iDevil.
If the world of smart phones is really a choice among the walled garden, the astro-turfed basement and the slopes of a volcano in the jungle, then I will have to accept that and choose my fate. If the problem is Samsung/AT&T and Android is simply ambrosia on some other device/carrier (as my colleague claims), then I would love to know that too.
Sorry for the dissertation and thanks for the thoughts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
......so get an iPhone then........
Currently Fusionized
I bought my wife a 4gs on launch day, and its smooth but not without a few faults. The amount of repeat info here can turn into a maze of discouragement, but I think just a little more effort might yield the results you want. I'm currently running mosaic 8 with the latest semiphore kernel and its very stable to say the least.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
KK4 seems to be the final update and source code is out so things are about to get real good. There are 5-6 real nice stable roms out right now. Take the time to find one you like and stick with it.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using xda premium
Wdustin1 said:
......so get an iPhone then........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, your view is that the Captivate and/or Android phones are best used by people who have both the skills and time to regularly - if not constantly - rebuild and tweak hidden and background settings always at some risk of bricking their several-hundred dollar device, and you see the iPhone as the proper choice for people who simply want something that works for their day-to-day use?
That's worse than what everyday users had to manage with DOS or in the early days of Linux or Windows 95. At least with those, your hardware wasn't (usually) at risk.
Is there no solution for those in the middle who want something that works day-to-day and allows them some freedom to make minor changes like block ads and install "unapproved" apps? Are they simply out of luck?
teknowledgist said:
I don't want to make trouble, but I'm hoping there can be a dialog as to the viability of the Captivate as a long-term, stable cell phone.
Like probably everyone here, I found the ROM AT&T supplied for the Captivate to be practically (if not criminally) unusable even if I didn't care about my rights to do what I want with it (but I do). Thus I decided that I needed to flash it with something better.
Obviously, there are a lot of Captivate owners who work very hard (and presumably, enjoy) modifying and tweaking the Android system for their phone - and that's great - but I'm not one of them. I appreciate that people like to change the look of their <object> and that the latest-and-greatest functionality is an ever-moving target, but paramount to me for everything in my life is minimal maintenance.
I don't really care about flashy eye-candy and holiday color schemes if it is moderately consistent. I am not looking to squeeze the last 2% (or even 10%) of possible speed out of my phone, but I do want it to respond to my input within a few tenths of a second (faster w/ typing) unlike the stock ROM. I have to use a lock-code, so I don't give a fig about the number of lock screens. If I could flash my phone and never have a need (note: not desire) to do it again, that would be fantastic. If I have to re-flash it once every 6 months and don't need to (re)read long (long!) meandering threads with cryptic and often conflicting and (possibly - how to tell?) outdated information, I could live with that.
Basically, it seems like I have to choose between a fixed, official ROM that sucks, or a sea of ever-changing ROMs with stability problems and a lot of focus on look-and-feel.
I'm not here crying about not having the perfect phone experience, rather I'm interested in the opinion of you here, "in the know", as to whether there exists a Captivate ROM that is stable in both the short-term (little to no crashes or unplanned reboots) and in the long term (will function similarly for months when not tweaked beyond what say, TiBu or AdAway would do).
This is something I've been wondering for months now (as my Serendipidy ROM grew ever-more unstable), but it has come to a head now because my wife is insisting that I encounter so many problems with my Cappy (currently experiencing various problems with Serenity) that I need to get a new phone (and it should be an iPhone like hers). I am as jealous at her stability, battery life and lack of problems as I am loathe to sell my soul to live in the walled garden with the iDevil.
If the world of smart phones is really a choice among the walled garden, the astro-turfed basement and the slopes of a volcano in the jungle, then I will have to accept that and choose my fate. If the problem is Samsung/AT&T and Android is simply ambrosia on some other device/carrier (as my colleague claims), then I would love to know that too.
Sorry for the dissertation and thanks for the thoughts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cm7. Wipe data factory reset again after flashing, let it sit for 10 mins after first boot but before you sign in.
My vibrant was perfectly stable that way.
Sent from my Sensation using xda premium
MIUI, great fast ROM. All you have to do is flash the small update every week and everything stays the same. You don't loose data!
If you don't feel like doing the update every single week just skip a few here and there. Or got the latest Gingerbread leak(KK4) and use it. It is stable, has great battery life, and pretty fast, but still can't compare to MIUI/CM7 speeds!
I'm not sure what you mean by stock AT&T ROM being no good. I've used a Captivate that had the official AT&T stock 2.2 on it, and it was pretty darn good. I then loaded the "stock" AT&T gingerbread leak on it, and it was even better. Almost no lag at all, GPS worked great, and battery life was excellent. I think you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.
derek4484 said:
I'm not sure what you mean by stock AT&T ROM being no good. I've used a Captivate that had the official AT&T stock 2.2 on it, and it was pretty darn good. I then loaded the "stock" AT&T gingerbread leak on it, and it was even better. Almost no lag at all, GPS worked great, and battery life was excellent. I think you're just complaining for the sake of complaining.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried to use the stock 2.2. I really did. I was getting random shutdowns and reboots all the time and the lag, oh the lag! I can't tell you how many times I would hit an on-screen button and nothing would happen. I would hit it again a second or three later or try a different on screen-button, and still nothing. Thinking the app had crashed, I would hit home or back. Another second or two after that, everything I had done would process in a millisecond and I would be back at the home screen with no idea what I had done as the "extra" touches would register as some other command on the screens that followed and I didn't see.
Once I reflashed the first time, the lag went away and the shutdowns greatly diminished, but since then I have had various other problems. Things like:
- the phone telling me I had a cell signal when I didn't and because I don't make many outgoing calls or texts I just thought nobody wanted to talk to me. Meanwhile people were getting mad that I wasn't getting back to them.
- Apps "uninstalling" by themselves sometimes with a generic icon to replace them. Re-installing them sometimes worked and sometimes didn't (with the same app).
- Texts that come in 5 hours after they were sent and 2 hours after I emerged into a strong cell signal (I work in a sub-basement).
When I tried the KK4 stock, everything did seem to work well until I actually tried to use it as a phone. It said I had signal and I had data connection, but most calls would simply never dial, and while it would ring and I could see who was calling, I couldn't answer. This seems particularly bizarre to me as you would think the ROM/modem pair should work with all Captivates.
If you want stability, I'd recommend Firefly or Andromeda. They are both older and are Froyo builds, but ultra stable.
And I concur the out of the box Cappy 2.1 build was unusable...it's how I ended up here at xda! Unlike you however, I found that I do like tweaking my phone, and I've done some amount of that...not without peaks and valleys, but I currently really enjoy the Mosaic ROM with Semaphore JVZ kernel.
i897 running Mosaic 8.5
teknowledgist said:
So, your view is that the Captivate and/or Android phones are best used by people who have both the skills and time to regularly - if not constantly - rebuild and tweak hidden and background settings always at some risk of bricking their several-hundred dollar device, and you see the iPhone as the proper choice for people who simply want something that works for their day-to-day use?
That's worse than what everyday users had to manage with DOS or in the early days of Linux or Windows 95. At least with those, your hardware wasn't (usually) at risk.
Is there no solution for those in the middle who want something that works day-to-day and allows them some freedom to make minor changes like block ads and install "unapproved" apps? Are they simply out of luck?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, it's shaping out that way. And it's only getting worse as time goes on and the fragments march in their separate directions. When there's 20 different fundamental ROMS (Sense, TouvhWiz, all the variations and so on), and 4000 different phones it becomes increasingly difficult to provide a consistent quality experience.
The worst part being I don't see a way out for Google or a light at the end of the tunnel for consumers short of starting over, which presents more problems than it solves.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Madtowndave said:
If you want stability, I'd recommend Firefly or Andromeda. They are both older and are Froyo builds, but ultra stable.
And I concur the out of the box Cappy 2.1 build was unusable...it's how I ended up here at xda! Unlike you however, I found that I do like tweaking my phone, and I've done some amount of that...not without peaks and valleys, but I currently really enjoy the Mosaic ROM with Semaphore JVZ kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the suggestions.
Actually, I think tweaking can be fun sometimes, but between work, family, house, etc. I'm usually stumbling through on 5 hours of sleep a night as it is (good thing I don't drive to work!). I simply don't have time to tweak, and I definitely can't be without a phone for a day or two.
MikeyMike01 said:
Unfortunately, it's shaping out that way. And it's only getting worse as time goes on and the fragments march in their separate directions. When there's 20 different fundamental ROMS (Sense, TouvhWiz, all the variations and so on), and 4000 different phones it becomes increasingly difficult to provide a consistent quality experience.
The worst part being I don't see a way out for Google or a light at the end of the tunnel for consumers short of starting over, which presents more problems than it solves.
Sent from my SGH-I897
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the sense I was getting, but when I would express it to anyone I know in meat-space, they just rolled their eyes and called me crazy. I started this thread with the optimistic hope that I was simply missing something.
It's good to know at least that I'm not alone in my thinking.
Stevenrogers_420 said:
KK4 seems to be the final update and source code is out so things are about to get real good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my hope.
I have had Cognition 5 on my phone since it was released. It has been the ultimate experience for me. Stable, GREAT battery life, awesome response, etc. It is the Plain Jane of ROMs and I won't use anything else.
at least not until a stable, working version of ICS is out. I've recently got my hands on a free captivate and have been using it as a testbed for ICS. Once I am satisfied, I will flash my everyday use Cappy to ICS and be done with flashing on this phone until I can upgrade this summer.
Im in your boat somewhat. I want all features of the device to work and I dont want reboots etc. Stability is critical.
For Froyo, Firefy 3.0 ROM gave up uptimes of 7-8 days without issue. I only rebooted once battery ran out.
GB ROMs Ive tried are all more unstable, but I have been on Illuminance 3.01 for over a week now and its running quite good. I reboot often though as I swap batteries, so I cant speak to up time but it goes over a day easily. Im using the ICS theme with it so it feels like I have a new device also.
Now that we have KK4 source I think we will see stability improve even more.
I see too many problems with the ICS builds so far but they are alpha afterall. Impressive progress from the devs working on it however!
Eventually my idea is to take the best of all the leaks and make a rock solid stable hybrid rom. Though most devs, including myself, try to cater to the masses. It seems what you are looking for isn't very popular. Most want more and better in their roms, i've tried both and still not overly successful at either. But it doesn't stop me from trying to create the best of both worlds. A solid stable rom with nice features, that doesn't deteriorate in performance over time. Hopefully a hybrid rom will solve a lot of issues we all face with the cappy.
The thing the iphone has going for it is the fact it is one manufacturer, apple. All the iphones are the same, same processor, same hardware, same specs, same, same, same. It makes it easy to have a tight knit development for the phone, so it is less prone to issues. But because of this tight, closed architecture, you don't have allot of choices as far as styles and hardware. Android and Windows, on the other hand, have multiple manufacturers and many choices of processors, hardware and styles to choose from. So it is much more difficult for Google and phone manufacturing developers to cater to all of the different phones and have each one run flawlessly. The same holds true for Linux and Windows with PC's. But I think the cappy has some of the best developers on XDA making great ROMs for it and these ROMs don't necessarily cater to hobbyists, they cater to captivate users in general.
Sometimes good things come to those who wait...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using xda premium
In my own opinion, I think one of the best ROM's out there, and quite frankly possibly the most stable I've run to date is Phoenix Unleashed. It's Froyo JS8, and was the last of the 2.2 ROM's Adam put out. It was a ROM I would absolutely go to IF I ever got tired of flashing ROM's(don't really see that happening) and wanted to just have a phone that worked and worked well.
I'm too busy now playing with ICS.......but that is a story for another day
kangi26 said:
In my own opinion, I think one of the best ROM's out there, and quite frankly possibly the most stable I've run to date is Phoenix Unleashed. It's Froyo JS8, and was the last of the 2.2 ROM's Adam put out. It was a ROM I would absolutely go to IF I ever got tired of flashing ROM's(don't really see that happening) and wanted to just have a phone that worked and worked well.
I'm too busy now playing with ICS.......but that is a story for another day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there's something to that. Serendipity 6 was JS8 if I remember correctly.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
MikeyMike01 said:
I think there's something to that. Serendipity 6 was JS8 if I remember correctly.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the way, no offence Mikey, I'm not in any way trying to imply that your ROM's are inferior, I just spent a TON of time with the Phoenix ROM's so my opinion comes from that alone
Hi, good people!
I am a newbie/noob as it comes to Android and flashing and rooting and...well, you get the gist...
so, as I a read about how to do stuff, I can not NOT notice how this forum is about one and the same model of of one smartphone, Galaxy Note N7000. It might be 16, or 32 GB RAM model, but all else, all the internals and software side of the things in the original setup is the same.
Yet, it seems that while some users have issues with some software, methods of rooting, or installing/flashing specific (custom) ROMs, the others (with the EXACT same phone!) don't...
I mean, in Windows and Linux world it is understandable that some graphic cards, memory sticks of RAM, hard drives, motherboards can cause particular issues with certain software, or combination of whatever is there... Like, I don't know- "ohh, no! my graphic design program isn't working with my AMD card, but it works with my friends Nvidia..."
BUT, here we are talking about stuff that is practically cloned! No variations! So, given that instructions are followed to the letter, each software, or ROM should either work for all, or NOT WORK for anybody at all.
Is it possible that the underlying software iteration of Android installed by Samsung onto devices in particular regions/countries is not uniform in quality/stability/compatibility?
Or am I missing something?
All that really holds me back from trying to actually DO ANY of the things I see other (you guys! ) do seemingly halfway asleep, and I hate it! grrr But, am I to blame for being to cautious and avoiding bricking my Note?
Yup you are right. I am also afraid to do this rooting stuff but now i thought to myself, if i dont do it i will never learn to take risk and learn new things and so i am going to root my phone today primarily for overclocking. I know even if i brick my Note, i am with people who have got years of experience in this. So i am gonna trust these guys and experiment with my phone. I guess you should also do the same.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA
Hah, yeah.... But, apparently, there is stuff like superbricking your Note, by messing up that EMCC chip, that can be fixed/replaced only by Samsung...
I've done all sorts of stuff on a PC and in Linux, but nothing seems to risky and unpredictable like this smartphone stuff...
Yeah right... On a PC, i never think once before formatting the hdd....but dont know why i get a strange feeling from within whenever i get into the recovery menu
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA