Related
Has anyone pulled the phone apart and read the serial number off the chip. We are trying to compair it to the US phone. If you have the info thanks Ours is a Broadcomm BCM4751 (Captivate)
Can I ask how you know the Captivate has a BCM4751 chip? Did you disassemble and see it? It appears that the Galaxy S generic being sold everywhere else outside the US has the BCM2075 chip that integrates BT and FM radios; at least that's what's being reported by others here.
If it were true that the Captivate/Fascinate/Vibrant in the US are using the BCM4751 chip, then it would truly mean these phones have no FM capability at all and there is no prospect of rooting the phone to disable a software level crippling.
This pisses me off. I was willing to forgo the front facing camera of the US versions, but the fact that they (apparently) went so far as to have samsung supply a different GPS chip to eliminate the FM radio so you are FORCED to use some ****e, data intensive service like AT&T radio instead is just outrageous. With the GPS/compass/antenna problems seemingly going ignored by samsung, maybe I won't get this phone at all.
http://www.broadcom.com/products/GPS/GPS-Silicon-Solutions/BCM2075
bugmenever said:
Can I ask how you know the Captivate has a BCM4751 chip? Did you disassemble and see it? It appears that the Galaxy S generic being sold everywhere else outside the US has the BCM2075 chip that integrates BT and FM radios; at least that's what's being reported by others here.
If it were true that the Captivate/Fascinate/Vibrant in the US are using the BCM4751 chip, then it would truly mean these phones have no FM capability at all and there is no prospect of rooting the phone to disable a software level crippling.
This pisses me off. I was willing to forgo the front facing camera of the US versions, but the fact that they (apparently) went so far as to have samsung supply a different GPS chip to eliminate the FM radio so you are FORCED to use some ****e, data intensive service like AT&T radio instead is just outrageous. With the GPS/compass/antenna problems seemingly going ignored by samsung, maybe I won't get this phone at all.
http://www.broadcom.com/products/GPS/GPS-Silicon-Solutions/BCM2075
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well the Galaxy S might have the BCM20751 but untill someone tears down the phone and checks with their eyes. The US Captivate was torn down and it is a 4751. But the 4751 doesn't have BT on it. So it could be all the phones have a 4751 with a seprate BT and FM. The 4751 is supposed to be a better GPS unit then the BCM20751 though.
ah, I see it on the Captivate general forum now. The only teardown of the generic Galaxy S that I have seen anywhere is the original one done in Korea a month ago. The pictures from that disassembly are too low-res for me to make out chip IDs. I tried going through their video of the teardown frame by frame too, but again, I can't see the numbers clearly and I saw nothing that resembled a broadcom chip. The Captivate board layout is much different than the Galaxy S, I can't really even see where the broadcom chip should be on it either.....
You're gonna love this. On my Galaxy S, According to jupiter.xml:
<gll
LogPriMask="LOG_DEBUG"
LogFacMask="LOG_GLLAPI | LOG_NMEA"
FrqPlan="FRQ_PLAN_26MHZ_2PPM_26MHZ_300PPB"
RfType="GL_RF_4751_DANUBE"
BrcmRFwildBase="0x1E2D6409"
BrcmRFclkDiv="21"
BrcmRFclkRefHz="26000000"
pps-enable="false" pps-offset-ms="0" pps-width-ns="100"
/>
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I changed the RfType to GL_RF_2075_BRCM and it just didn't work.
Well thats good. We've accomplished something. But Broadcomm says this is the best GPS they have ever made some hopfully samsung messed up the code and we get a super good GPS.
TBH - I think we may actually be waiting on the driver from Broadcom. Something about Broadcoms reputation as an open source provider is in question.
sjdean said:
TBH - I think we may actually be waiting on the driver from Broadcom. Something about Broadcoms reputation as an open source provider is in question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it could deff. be broardcoms side. They better fix it.
Is the 4751 used in any other phones just want to see the performance of the gps on this chipset in other devices..
The mere fact that we have Broadcom chip for GPS and not some off brand that I've never heard before like InCrystal really, really points to a serious issue with the drivers/firmware for the GPS. The phone should be operating in MS-Based mode out of the box anyway and I don't know why it isn't. That's not the only problem it has but standalone mode is not what it should be operating in. Nearly all phones GPS' are truly the pits without network assistance.
Lots of phones use Broadcom for GPS, right off of the top of my head, the iPhone is one of them!
Well I really hope it can operate in stand alone mode reasonably well, it should be able to, I dont see why a phone couldn't. agps is mainly just for helping get locks faster at startup and possibly in areas where gps signals are weak but agps is not going to help you out of the city much etc etc.
However yeah I really hope it is a driver issue and if so broadcom and samsung need to get together or its going to drag both their names down.
Kilack said:
Well I really hope it can operate in stand alone mode reasonably well, it should be able to, I dont see why a phone couldn't. agps is mainly just for helping get locks faster at startup and possibly in areas where gps signals are weak but agps is not going to help you out of the city much etc etc.
However yeah I really hope it is a driver issue and if so broadcom and samsung need to get together or its going to drag both their names down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well like I said there appears to be some other issues besides the fact that they ship in standalone mode which is awful for any phone.. aGPS is the first choice for most phones (Galaxy S is an exception I suppose!) before falling back to standalone mode which does take 2-3 minutes for a fix. Standalone GPS will always take a few minutes to get a lock, a phone certainly isn't going to perform better than a Garmin and I have yet to see one of those in standalone mode lock faster than a phone with aGPS. aGPS is for an initial fix regardless of other circumstances and it's why phones get such snappy fixes.
Ok, but I posted elsewhere that there's a whole stack of a lot happening behind the scenes, which Im not even Samsung know what's going on.
First, even in Standalone mode, you see data being streamed in the initial few seconds, so there must be something in there.
But Ok, we have:
Operation Mode under LBSTestMode - MS Based, MS Assisted, Network Provider or standalone
GPS Plus - Uses the OneXtra servers
Skyhook - Another form of AGPS
SUPL Settings
And irrespective of what you set the SUPL settings to:
Jupiter.xml - Points to both www.spirent-lcs.com as an acSuplServer then points to bcmls2.glpals.com as the LbsServer.
Then under Location and Security, we have the ability to Use Wireless Networks (using WiFi and Cellular Networks). Even if this is switched off, the phone still wants to enable Wireless and see what's out there.
So that's what, 6, perhaps 7 or even 8 seemingly different settings, different methods, of A-GPS.
No wonder the phone is getting confused.
Cya
Simon
sjdean said:
Ok, but I posted elsewhere that there's a whole stack of a lot happening behind the scenes, which Im not even Samsung know what's going on.
First, even in Standalone mode, you see data being streamed in the initial few seconds, so there must be something in there.
But Ok, we have:
Operation Mode under LBSTestMode - MS Based, MS Assisted, Network Provider or standalone
GPS Plus - Uses the OneXtra servers
Skyhook - Another form of AGPS
SUPL Settings
And irrespective of what you set the SUPL settings to:
Jupiter.xml - Points to both www.spirent-lcs.com as an acSuplServer then points to bcmls2.glpals.com as the LbsServer.
Then under Location and Security, we have the ability to Use Wireless Networks (using WiFi and Cellular Networks). Even if this is switched off, the phone still wants to enable Wireless and see what's out there.
So that's what, 6, perhaps 7 or even 8 seemingly different settings, different methods, of A-GPS.
No wonder the phone is getting confused.
Cya
Simon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, so standalone isn't really standalone at all
I wonder if any of the problems are actually being caused by agps especially as a lot of the "fixes" by users were basically changes to the agps.
Curious....., if you google skyhook and you see how samsung and I think even apple used skyhook etc and all the big fanfare etc over it but it seems to be disabled in this phone.
and some of the fixes were to use the google location server right?
(weren't google roasted around the world for wardriving and recording wifi sites and also the data? hehe), now i know why they did it.. for location services I guess... a bit off topic but just now seeing why there were even interested in wifi sites etc.
So.. this broadcom chip... its supposed to be good? can we eliminate the hardware as being a bad gps chipset?
Other things to keep in mind when determining the chip are BT and wifi. The 2075, for example, provides bt 2.1, which rules out its presence on the SGS, unless samsung decided to install multiple bluetooth chips. So, the chip we are looking for provides either bt, version 3.0 and wifi N and GPS, or one or 2 of those 3, which makes the 4751 way more likely indeed. I also don't see a reason to change the internals of the phone.
Gps is a Qualcomm RTR6285 like desire, nexus, some blackberry.
careace.net/2010/06/09/disassembly-of-the-samsung-galaxy-s/
news.danawa.com/News_List_View.php?nModeC=4&nSeq=1742568
sesamee said:
Gps is a Qualcomm RTR6285 like desire, nexus, some blackberry.
careace.net/2010/06/09/disassembly-of-the-samsung-galaxy-s/
news.danawa.com/News_List_View.php?nModeC=4&nSeq=1742568
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This:
news.danawa.com/News_List_View.php?nModeC=4&nSeq=1742568
must be the korean version (hardware is diferent)
for example :
http://www.careace.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/galaxy-s-disassembly-29.jpg
http://www.danawa.com/cms/popup_image.php?url=http://img.danawa.com/cms/img/2010/07/06/14.jpg
Audio codec is the same (wolfson)
Configuration files show tha GPS chip is bcm4751 in european galaxy s (not GPS BT FM BCM20751 or BCM2075) in captive there are photos also.
it REALLY seems like a driver issue. I can get a lock within seconds in MS based mode like all other Android phones with 6 meter accuracy tracking in my car but the performance diminishes after that and the phone requires a reboot for another fix -- IF GPS doesnt cause a lock up trying to get a lock.
Anyone else notice the same behavior in MS based mode?
Sent from my SGH-T959
as i have said in the gps issue thread my settings are as they were from the factory, and at least for now my gps works, in test mode it sees 9-11 satalites, and locks 5-7 of then in about 9 secs, it even suprised me today when i was stood on my staires surrounded by brick walls it managed to get a fix.
this was however not the case with the first one i had, no matter what i tried i could not get a reasonable fix, so it seems to me like some phones are better then others, even thought they are the same phones, this is why i suggested it could be a faulty batch but that is not the case, so i have no idea why this one works and the other never.
if you want the settings: gps is set to oo
application setting
session type: tracking
test mode: s/w test
opperation mode: standalone
start mode: hot start
gps plus: on
dynamic accuracy: on
accuracy: 50
skyhook: off
use pc tool: off
supl/cp setting
sever fqdn: custom
server: www.sprint-lcs.com
server port: 7275
supl secure socket: on
agps mode: supl
hope these can be of use for someone, please note im in the uk.
edit: just tested out my window and got 8 found / 8 locked satalites in 12 secs
Things are getting even more weird...
I was browsing around in the jupiter.xml file shipped in the JP2 firmware and found what I suspect must be a a typo:
arp-supl-reaiding-time-sec = "1200"
Shouldn't that be: arp-supl-reading-time-sec = "1200" ?
With all that mucking about with wads of configuration files and a bazillion places where (conflicting) settings can be made, this doesn't exactly make me feel better about the reliability of AGPS on this device.
edit: nah, probably not a typo (read as 're-aiding', duh) but an unfortunate name choice anyway. At least it appears consistent with what the app is expecting.
I have a serious question here about the GPS issue. I am really starting to think that this GPS issue is somthing that is being manipulated by specific "carriers" so that if you are a big GPS user you will us the "carrier specific" GPS app like TeleNav.
The reason I wonder this is because as I read the threads I see tht people with "unbranded" phones do not seem to have as much GPS issues as those with branded ones.
As I read the new froyo posts I see that those who have upgraded through Kies "officially" (and there by are unbranded) are reporting that GPS is locking onto 7 - 8 satelites in under 30 seconds and get a PERFECT positioning while those who have used the reg. hack method (and there by are branded) still report that the GPS is horrible.
I may be way off here and dont mean to sound all "conspiracy theory" or anything but this is just my 2 cents. What do you think?
It's incredibly unlikely. All the SGS phones are branded in some way I believe, and all use the same hardware.
Some firmware's are simply broken GPS drivers. Remember, when Telstra in Aus shipped the Desire, they shipped broken GPS too (and HTC hasn't had similar complaints), but it does show that accidents happen.
Part of the difference in performance may simply be the load of apps running affecting CPU speed, affecting timing, or other random stuff.
andrewluecke said:
It's incredibly unlikely. All the SGS phones are branded in some way I believe, and all use the same hardware.
Some firmware's are simply broken GPS drivers. Remember, when Telstra in Aus shipped the Desire, they shipped broken GPS too (and HTC hasn't had similar complaints), but it does show that accidents happen.
Part of the difference in performance may simply be the load of apps running affecting CPU speed, affecting timing, or other random stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the reply here on this. I see what you are saying but if the issue is something related to the issues you mention above then why when a "real" navigatiin app is used (like the telenav app i have on my phone) does it lock on right away and is acurate almost to the penny? Google Maps and Google Navigation are WAY OFF by like 1500 meters... This still does not make sense to me...
Perhaps the issue is on Googles side?
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
My track and Google map really suck.
You can almost try any other program and they're always better.
The problem is that they do continue to next point they have calculated and if they se you have turn Away from your course they still use the point they calculated and move you to the point you are.
But you get waste data that's not true.
That's way you see so bad track on sgs when you upload them to Google map.
This is why many complain on the gps on sgs, but if they used a real gps program, and preferred an offline program, then they should se the gps do work.
Look at my stat when i drive my car.
In all other program its always spot on, but not with these program.
As you can se i almost have a perfect lock with a signal strength over 40 on four off hem.
So to say to me that sgs gps is broken and it is a hardware fault is to funny.
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DamianGto said:
My track and Google map really suck.
You can almost try any other program and they're always better.
The problem is that they do continue to next point they have calculated and if they se you have turn Away from your course they still use the point they calculated and move you to the point you are.
But you get waste data that's not true.
That's way you see so bad track on sgs when you upload them to Google map.
This is why many complain on the gps on sgs, but if they used a real gps program, and preferred an offline program, then they should se the gps do work.
Look at my stat when i drive my car.
In all other program its always spot on, but not with these program.
As you can se i almost have a perfect lock with a signal strength over 40 on four off hem.
So to say to me that sgs gps is broken and it is a hardware fault is to funny.
Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 341MB Ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What program is this picture of and what gps program do you use?
~Edit~ If the google programs suck so bad then why do they work so well on the iphone and even on my old WM Samsung Omnia i910? They are spot on with those devices...
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
yiannisthegreek said:
What program is this picture of and what gps program do you use?
~Edit~ If the google programs suck so bad then why do they work so well on the iphone and even on my old WM Samsung Omnia i910? They are spot on with those devices...
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its gps test.
Well i don't know why it don't work well on sgs. I just know it don't.
I use copilot. But there are many program you can use and they still work better.
Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 341MB Ram
DamianGto said:
You seems not to understand how gps works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ignore Damian. Listening to his GPS expertise actually makes you dumber, because it's always wrong (he is an anti-scientist). I think he mean "it seems I (Damian) does not understand how GPS works".
Every opinion does matter, but your unwillingness to actually learn about the topic you claim you are an expert on, has finally gotten to me, and I'm reporting you. You are hindering useful conversations, and whilst I accept disrespect can happen occasionally, we don't need jerks who are littering the forum with incorrect information.
yiannisthegreek said:
when a "real" navigatiin app is used (like the telenav app i have on my phone) does it lock on right away
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ignore what DamianGTO said. Quicker locking might be perception for starters. Some Car nav apps start polling the GPS as they are booting (and some I've tried take a while to load). It might also be that some car navigation applications have been tweaked to select the optimum minimum accuracy dynamically. This wouldn't be possible in My Tracks, and if it does happen, it might not be in Google Navigation (this is simply speculation though). In an area where there are no other roads for 50m for instance, you only need an accuracy of 50m to place you on the road in an accurate enough place. When you look at the map it will seem mostly accuracy, but the GPS chip itself might be saying you are actually 24m to the side of the road.
No GPS can lock immediately, so something else must be going on. Even SiftStar 3's take 6 seconds or so to lock on hot start. It may also be that Google maps/mytrack are using more location sources, and some are causing issues. Remember, they all use the same API. When I tried Google maps though, I locked immediately too, probably because it was a warm/hot start (and had recently been used). Remember, GPS has 3 locking modes, hot, warm and cold start. More information is available on: http://www.gsmarena.com/glossary.php3?term=gps . All GPS receivers are affected by this, and all programs.
yiannisthegreek said:
Google Maps and Google Navigation are WAY OFF by like 1500 meters... This still does not make sense to me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are possibly using wireless networks/skyhook too as a location provider, whilst others might not (all android apps use the same location api to interact with the hardware actually). Turn it off in GPS settings, and I wouldn't expect this to be a problem.
Google might have reasons for using it if it's available in Google Maps at least. It might also be that some mobiles use mobile networks for tracking better than ours, and do use them in a way that provides much more accurate results. Summary of this though, is turn use wireless networks off!
DamianGto said:
My track and Google map really suck.
You can almost try any other program and they're always better.
The problem is that they do continue to next point they have calculated and if they se you have turn Away from your course they still use the point they calculated and move you to the point you are.
But you get waste data that's not true.
That's way you see so bad track on sgs when you upload them to Google map.
This is why many complain on the gps on sgs, but if they used a real gps program, and preferred an offline program, then they should se the gps do work.
Look at my stat when i drive my car.
In all other program its always spot on, but not with these program.
As you can se i almost have a perfect lock with a signal strength over 40 on four off hem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For starters, SNR of 40 was probably taken in a field with very few trees around, on a good day without moving. But those values are possibly meaningless anyway. Plenty of us know for instance that the accuracy values can be incorrect.
Secondly, My tracks and other raw GPS tools will show the real track your GPS is producing. On sparse roads, clever algorithms can cover for poor GPS. Whilst commercial apps often do better, and Google nav might be a bit quick to put you on a side street, that's an algorithmic problem with the app. On dense roads or roads with forks, the GPS could be better. We also don't really know the refresh rate either, and that can cause issues.
I haven't really seen much proof the cause is because of your theory though. And I kind of wish you'd stop pretending as though all your guesses are fact.
Anyway, in summary, the GPS is ok for navigation, but isn't really fitness grade. Navigation apps allow a huge range of errors, and whilst I agree the offline apps seem to have better, in dense areas, many have encountered serious navigation issues, and at least in my case, it isn't accurate enough for jogging I feel.
Andrew. You still don't understand that sgs can have good gps.
Look at the picture i posted.
Its when i was moving and i do have almost a perfect lock and signal strength.
You still ignore this fact.
You also ignore that more and more people do report that mytrack and Google map don't work.
You also don't answer what op do ask.
You also write bad things about me time after time in every tread you can.
Try to understand all sgs phone is not the same.
Some are better some are worse.
Is true a use it for car navigation, but i could use it for other things to. The result would be the same.
My gps in the sgs do work very good.
If you understand how signal strength works then you should know that.
So stop telling lies about me.
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DamianGto said:
Andrew. You still don't understand that sgs can have good gps.
Look at the picture i posted.
Its when i was moving and i do have almost a perfect lock and signal strength.
You still ignore this fact.
You also ignore that more and more people do report that mytrack and Google map don't work.
You also don't answer what op do ask.
You also write bad things about me time after time in every tread you can.
Try to understand all sgs phone is not the same.
Some are better some are worse.
Is true a use it for car navigation, but i could use it for other things to. The result would be the same.
My gps in the sgs do work very good.
If you understand how signal strength works then you should know that.
So stop telling lies about me.
Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 341MB Ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen your picture. Once again, it proves nothing (I can make a similar one). All you've proven is that you get good reception whilst standing still. Congrats. You haven't proven the location is accurate though, or proven anything else.
If it were just a case of "my tracks" and "google maps" (you mean nav), are dodgy, PROVE IT!
Damian's challenge
You are quick to tell everyone else they don't know what they are talking about. You CLAIM Mytracks and Google Maps is broken.
So now, to prove your point, grab a track recorder. It doesn't have to be mytracks, but it MUST be one which records tracks. Then, go for a half hour walk, at all times sticking to a footpath, or a consistant distance alongside the roads. Then post results. If the signal is waving around significantly, congratulations, your GPS isn't suitable for fitness like ours, but is still fine for driving. However, if the track remains relatively consistent, so we can identify what side of the road you are walking on, you've proven it's hardware.
You mean software at the end...
Anyway, I don't understand why people in this forum always link locking speed to gps accuracy. I am on jpm, I lock in less than 20 seconds all the time, but navigation with google maps/navigator is ****ty. Point is, if I look at gps data with gpd status app, I don't see any jumping of digital compass or latitude/longitude. This is puzzling. Is there a navigation program like navigon that I can try to test, for free or a reasonable price? I don't need another navigator, so I really don't care about spending 100 for navigon...
Cheers
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andrewluecke said:
I've seen your picture. Once again, it proves nothing (I can make a similar one). All you've proven is that you get good reception whilst standing still. Congrats. You haven't proven the location is accurate though, or proven anything else.
If it were just a case of "my tracks" and "google maps" (you mean nav), are dodgy, PROVE IT!
Damian's challenge
You are quick to tell everyone else they don't know what they are talking about. You CLAIM Mytracks and Google Maps is broken.
So now, to prove your point, grab a track recorder. It doesn't have to be mytracks, but it MUST be one which records tracks. Then, go for a half hour walk, at all times sticking to a footpath, or a consistant distance alongside the roads. Then post results. If the signal is waving around significantly, congratulations, your GPS isn't suitable for fitness like ours, but is still fine for driving. However, if the track remains relatively consistent, so we can identify what side of the road you are walking on, you've proven it's hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The picture actually tells that he is moving in a speed of 25 km/h
vigge_sWe said:
The picture actually tells that he is moving in a speed of 25 km/h
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, my bad. But it doesn't really change much, because there is no way of knowing if the accuracy value being shown is correct in that picture unless it provides coordinates. In fact, there is no way of knowing if the SNR is valid at all. Hence why he needs to show tracks, based on raw data as the quality of those are mostly dependent on the quality of GPS.
andrewluecke said:
Sorry, my bad. But it doesn't really change much, because there is no way of knowing if the accuracy value being shown is correct in that picture unless it provides coordinates. In fact, there is no way of knowing if the SNR is valid at all. Hence why he needs to show tracks, based on raw data as the quality of those are mostly dependent on the quality of GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, as I usually also get around 5 meter accuracy and around 15 satellites I could do some tests with some tracking software too, do you know any good alternative to my tracks?
My shall i prove more for you?
You never listen and understand when people tell you that they have a gps that work.
You seems not to understand that signal strength is a key value to a good gps. You always want people post my track or other bad program.
You don't understand how a good gps works.
A good gps program knows when they get a faulty data and ignore that. Mytrack don't and keep logging it like true data. That why you se wierd tracks.
Also a good gps program use other sensors to make the position more correct.
I don't have any problem at all to navigate were ever i want to travel.
I also use the gps almost every.day.
So stop telling me that the gps don't work.
Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 341MB Ram
Seems like there is nothing wrong with the GPS when walking at least.
On my way to the food store:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...23463503511037.000494650ddc3df0ebc99&t=h&z=16
on my way back:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...64939,12.25894&spn=0.008962,0.019248&t=h&z=16
Both are pretty much accurate, just at some turns the turn has a bit too large radius.
Does this prove that the GPS works fine for walking?
I can't try it by car because I have none, but I tried with my bicycle, but there I have to agree that it isn't too accurate, yet it is still accurate so you could guess which road I am going on, but at turns it just goes off somewhere else.
Everyone... Thank You for your replies. Pwehaps my question was stupid or way off base but i diddnt mean for my topic to become an arguement. I just wanted to know why the google gps software doesnt seem to work.
I will try one item mentiined by andrew and turn off wireless network for gps use and see if that makes a difference.
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Gps is a hot issue for some people so they can't stand that someone else has a working sgs.
But if the gps is way of its broken. It so simple.
Wireless don't do much different. Its just an aid.
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DamianGto said:
You never listen and understand when people tell you that they have a gps that work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've said Maps is faulty and mytracks is.You keep coming up with detailed explanations of the algorithms, but I can't even imagine how you know them to be true, when you have clearly never recorded a raw track outside of mytracks before.So show us a raw track using something which isn't Mytracks, and then you can continue telling everyone else they are morons.
EVERYTIME I ask you to prove your claims you point to SNR values, present some amazing new research which you are unwilling to prove properly, and go into an endless cycle, get defensive, and ultimately, move onto the next thread whilst ever proving anything.
I simply ask you prove them once. You have NEVER done that.
DamianGto said:
Wireless don't do much different. Its just an aid.
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*facepalm*. EXCEPT, when a program is using multiple location services if GPS drops out and resorts to Wireless, then the location might in some areas, be WAY off. Turning it off may help in situations where GPS isn't available.
For instance, whilst on the bus the other day, in Google maps I found my position was WAY off, because GPS wasn't working (the bus's coatings must have blocked the signals). Turned out after turning off Using wireless networks I had no location, but no location was as useful as a location which was clearly off by kilometers.
Wireless networks are useful in some cases, but if you are after precision, and don't want the possibility of seriously wrong positions being used as a fall-back, yes, turning it off can help in some applications. Maybe not all of them (because some might properly use GPS only), but some definitely (especially since Android developers can't assume the unit will have GPS, and apps like Google maps can benefit from location guessing).
I have record alot of Mytrack but they are always faulty.
That's way i have figure out how it works.
If you think Bout what i did write you should understand that's its true and that's way people have a big problem to get a good track.
This is not a problem only on sgs. Many phone has this.
Why i talk about signal strength is that's a very good way to show how good the gps is working and get the data.
OfCourse you need to lock at the signal strength with when you are standing still and moving.
If you block the antenna you will get low signal strength and get bad readings.
You still ignore this facts.
I have showed that i do have a sgs with great gps that has very good signal strength.
You still don't prove anything your self.
Sent from GT-I9000 jpo. My own kernel for z4mod and with 341MB Ram
i need to bay galaxy s mainly for GPS , but i heard a lot of proplems regarding the GPS , i need to know before baying is it true , what is the exact proplems and could it be fixed for real ..... and is it work off line or not ... and if work offline is it work with voice navigation or not.... i will appreciate your responces
drsemsemicu said:
i need to bay galaxy s mainly for GPS , but i heard a lot of proplems regarding the GPS , i need to know before baying is it true , what is the exact proplems and could it be fixed for real ..... and is it work off line or not ... and if work offline is it work with voice navigation or not.... i will appreciate your responces
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If you are looking to mainly use it as a GPS unit, I might advise otherwise, as some do struggle with their GPS signal. There are a few known errors, some with fixes, and others do not experience any problems at all. If you are looking for a quality phone that includes GPS, Galaxy is a great choice. If you're looking for a quality GPS that includes a phone, Galaxy may not be the best option.
Kops said:
If you are looking to mainly use it as a GPS unit, I might advise otherwise, as some do struggle with their GPS signal. There are a few known errors, some with fixes, and others do not experience any problems at all. If you are looking for a quality phone that includes GPS, Galaxy is a great choice. If you're looking for a quality GPS that includes a phone, Galaxy may not be the best option.
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I run the SGS with ALK CoPilot Sat Nav software. Initial GPS fix can be a little slow, but otherwise ok. Copilot requires no online connection, although it can make use of one for traffic updates etc, and the voice prompts work well.
Running Froyo XXJPO
PhilPassmore said:
I run the SGS with ALK CoPilot Sat Nav software. Initial GPS fix can be a little slow, but otherwise ok. Copilot requires no online connection, although it can make use of one for traffic updates etc, and the voice prompts work well.
Running Froyo XXJPO
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I use Google Maps. Lock will take about 3-5 minutes on average. I can usually speed up the process by launching GPS Test app, and finding where my phone gets best satellite reception to lock a signal. I otherwise have no issues with the GPS
I use Sygic Mobile Maps, Igo and Navigon. Locking never takes more than 15 seconds, and navigation is perfect. All the problems that existed in Eclair 2.1 versions have disappeared. I'm very happy with the GPS.
First off, Galaxy is a phone (and a great one) with a GPS, not the other way around. If you want rock solid GPS, buy a GPS! The chip, the antena, the optimisation will just be better on a standalone GPS.
Then, if you want to have the addition of a GPS chip on the phone, IMHO, it's a great bundle. I get fast and precise fix and I can even use it to track my jogs (and listen to music while I'm at it!). Google Maps and such nav apps are pretty neat and effective.
So, basicaly, if you need a GPS with a phone, buy a GPS and a phone...
If you want a great bundle with GPS function, SGS is the way to go!
gingerbread updates make the gps better, for me the jvo modem (jvh rom) made a huge difference for the better. it got lock way faster (below 1 min vs 2-3 on js3) and saw more satellites
Between the HTC Sapphire (HCT Magic), the ACER liquid and the Samsung Galaxy S, I had in my hands this last one has the worst GPS.
On my unit it's sometime barely usable.
Some people have good GPS in their SGS and are very happy, but many other have bad units. There are many different fixes in the forums, but we still are waiting for a official one.
The SGS is a good Android phone, but if GPS is really important for you, I won't recommend it. If you are lucky you will have a good GPS, but you can also have a bad one...
GPS is also varying. I thought it was fixed with the 2.2.1 update, but today I had problems. Even power cycled the phone and reset the GPS data with the GPS Status app. And now, indoors, it is suddenly working again.
All very strange.
In truth people have wildly varying experiences with the GPS in the SGS. For some it works perfectly, for others it pretty much is unusable. It is a widely documented problem with several known and possible causes.
At times I get locks with an accuracy in the tens of kilometres for example. Normally I get locks around 30m to 10m however - when I am outside. Lock times are not really a problem but stability and accuracy are.
As for fixes, there are a few, but as before people report wildly different outcomes on each one. Most of the fixes involve voiding your warranty and they may not even work for you.
Honestly the Galaxy S is a great phone and I love mine - One of the best out there in many markets. However if GPS is your primary concern I would strongly recommend you look at other models. At the very least buy from somewhere with a solid return policy and the ability to perhaps swap out for a different phone. You could just as easily buy a perfect SGS as a dud.
The brand new SGS2 has reportedly got a much better GPS unit fitted (it's a different GPS chipset!), and might be a better choice if looking for a new phone, and your budget stretched that far.
The SGS, as others have said has a varied set of problems both hardware and software based. The latest firmware has sorted it for many, and there are various tweaks, if you did find problems.
The hardware itself was more a problem on the earliest units (pe-october), with then having poor contact inside to the antenna, although some post-october units suffer from this too. This can be fixed on all of them by opening the unit and bending or soldering the contacts.
As long as you buy it from a place with a good returns policy... Or but a second hand unit you can test before purchase, then the SGS should be fine... But many would love an SGS2 if buying again now!
Hope this helps
Mike
Garbled meaning induced by swype when posting from XDA app on SGS I9000.
xpcomputers said:
The brand new SGS2 has reportedly got a much better GPS unit fitted (it's a different GPS chipset!), and might be a better choice if looking for a new phone, and your budget stretched that far.
>>Still a percentage whining about poor GPS but my SGS 1 and two perfect.
The SGS, as others have said has a varied set of problems both hardware and software based. The latest firmware has sorted it for many, and there are various tweaks, if you did find problems.
>>Some users had no problems at all on SGS 1
The hardware itself was more a problem on the earliest units (pe-october), with then having poor contact inside to the antenna, although some post-october units suffer from this too. This can be fixed on all of them by opening the unit and bending or soldering the contacts.
>>. likewise the press on GPS trick may be a help as will setting the GPS up as per posts on the subject .
As long as you buy it from a place with a good returns policy... Or but a second hand unit you can test before purchase, then the SGS should be fine... But many would love an SGS2 if buying again now!
I would be quite happy with either based upon my experiences . Plus as above buy try and return if not happy .
14 million SGS users happy .
jje
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Click to collapse
make such test as this guy -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHaIuGZgIxQ
is your tracking as crap as his? mine is, ive managed to make gps lock in seconds to 5m accuracy but that is not helping in precision tracking
hahaha look what ive found
http://www.scribd.com/doc/36341108/CSR-v-Broadcom
http://news.priorsmart.com/csr-v-broadcom-l34y/
that includes 'our' chip also
settlement
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-01-10/broadcom-csr-settle-patent-fight-over-gps-devices.html
and what is fun part of this story?
SGS2 uses CSR chip not Broadcom one
whhaaaat you say
SiRFstar IV was announced in mid 2009 http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2350815,00.asp <- sgs 2 - reported working with 1m precision, locking fast and inside no problems with precision tracking
BCM4751 was announced in early 2010 http://www.gpsworld.com/consumer-oe...s-single-chip-gps-mobile-devices-bcm4751-9520 <- sgs - 5m with 15m stepping that was upgraded in nexus s to 5m stepping, no precision tracking - rookie mistakes on drivers and setup, innacurate
draw your own conclusions =]
My Streak 7 wifi, stock ROM- gps unable to lock. Other than that, device is great. Wifi connected. In settings, Wireless networks and GPS satellites in use. GPS Status & Toolbox app downloaded aGPS data but not helping, GpsFix app not helping to lock also. Any other suggestions? thanks in advance.
dang1970 said:
My Streak 7 wifi, stock ROM- gps unable to lock. Other than that, device is great. Wifi connected. In settings, Wireless networks and GPS satellites in use. GPS Status & Toolbox app downloaded aGPS data but not helping, GpsFix app not helping to lock also. Any other suggestions? thanks in advance.
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Click to collapse
Not to be too mundane, but have you tried a simple reboot, or going outside where you'd be more likely to get a GPS fix? My T-Mobile S7 has had trouble getting a GPS fix several times, but other times it locks right in.
How long have you left in in clear line of sight of the sky to get a lock? I use mine as my primary in-car multimedia center/GPS and at first, to save battery, would turn it completely off when not in use. I found that when I'd get in my car to go home from work it could take up to 10 minutes to get a lock. Then I started just letting it sleep, have had no battery issues and GPS lock is nearly instant.
Long story short: Give it a good while to lock after a full shut down.And maybe you have, I just thought I'd share my experience.
Jeff
I have absolutely the same issue. After turning it off completely, the GPS does not lock for ages in any sky conditions, etc. Moreover, I put another two Android devices (Galaxy S and Optimus One) also after complete shut off juyst nearby and they are getting locked almest immediately. No doubts, there is a bug in the S7 GPS. But what is it ? Is it a hardware problem ? Can it be fixed ? Keeping it in a sleep mode for a long time is not a good solution for me, though it works indeed.
Does anybody know how to fix it ? At the moment I am using an external GPS. It works perfect, but it is also not that elegant solution.
Same thing here too. I downloaded "GPS test", and found that it will lock on pretty quick, then fire up GPS, and all is well.
margol1 said:
I have absolutely the same issue. After turning it off completely, the GPS does not lock for ages in any sky conditions, etc. Moreover, I put another two Android devices (Galaxy S and Optimus One) also after complete shut off juyst nearby and they are getting locked almest immediately. No doubts, there is a bug in the S7 GPS. But what is it ? Is it a hardware problem ? Can it be fixed ? Keeping it in a sleep mode for a long time is not a good solution for me, though it works indeed.
Does anybody know how to fix it ? At the moment I am using an external GPS. It works perfect, but it is also not that elegant solution.
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Click to collapse
GPS on android devices need the assistance of the cell tower or ISP location to get a quick lock. When you first boot up the ds7 and turn on GPS, make sure you are connected to wifi in order to get a quick lock. If you search this forum you will see a thread that give a fix for this, but I think its too much of a hassle. Just be on wifi for your first lock will do the trick. This is not bug on the ds7, its android.
otnos said:
GPS on android devices need the assistance of the cell tower or ISP location to get a quick lock. When you first boot up the ds7 and turn on GPS, make sure you are connected to wifi in order to get a quick lock. If you search this forum you will see a thread that give a fix for this, but I think its too much of a hassle. Just be on wifi for your first lock will do the trick. This is not bug on the ds7, its android.
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Really? More misinformation on this subject? No, Android devices do not need aGPS, in this case you're confusing aGPS (ie: download of ephemeris data) with Network location, which are quite different.
And it really doesn't matter if it's the first or the Nth time, if the DS7 is always offline for some reason, it would likely make that first fix take 5+ minutes but subsequent fixes (for 7 or so days) would be fine. However, as soon as he goes online, it's going to download the ephemeris data.
My guess is that his GPS conf is set to the wrong part of the world, so the ephemeris data is basically invalid. FasterFix in the market can help correct this mistake if you're rooted, or you can replace it manually.
khaytsus said:
Really? More misinformation on this subject? No, Android devices do not need aGPS, in this case you're confusing aGPS (ie: download of ephemeris data) with Network location, which are quite different.
And it really doesn't matter if it's the first or the Nth time, if the DS7 is always offline for some reason, it would likely make that first fix take 5+ minutes but subsequent fixes (for 7 or so days) would be fine. However, as soon as he goes online, it's going to download the ephemeris data.
My guess is that his GPS conf is set to the wrong part of the world, so the ephemeris data is basically invalid. FasterFix in the market can help correct this mistake if you're rooted, or you can replace it manually.
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I beg to differ with you. When I was on stock froyo, I had the same GPS lock problem on one of my trip. So I pulled into a McDonald and connected to their free wifi and got an instant lock. This morning I tested it again. I have been running honeycomb sine Oct 5th and have never turn on the GPS. I connected to my wifi, turned on GPS, and opened Google map and got an instant lock. I didn't have to wait 5+ min..
otnos said:
I beg to differ with you. When I was on stock froyo, I had the same GPS lock problem on one of my trip. So I pulled into a McDonald and connected to their free wifi and got an instant lock. This morning I tested it again. I have been running honeycomb sine Oct 5th and have never turn on the GPS. I connected to my wifi, turned on GPS, and opened Google map and got an instant lock. I didn't have to wait 5+ min..
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And none of that has anything to do with what I said.......
This is a little FAQ I wrote up on how to fix this problem. Just a matter of replacing the file that runs the GPS, based off the area you live in.
http://tabletroms.com/forums/showwiki.php?title=DellStreakFAQ:GPS-FIX
giveen said:
This is a little FAQ I wrote up on how to fix this problem. Just a matter of replacing the file that runs the GPS, based off the area you live in.
http://tabletroms.com/forums/showwiki.php?title=DellStreakFAQ:GPS-FIX
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Good list, although not sure why you're specifying dozens of NTP servers vs the pool server, but I assume t-mobile lets anyone connect to its server to download the ephemeris data? Otherwise, probably better to use supl.google.com
Here's mine, for North America, with other regions commented out for NTP. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/334233/gps.conf
It'd be interesting to know if all of the other dozen or so configuration options are actually used, I've heard they aren't, just part of a spec.
I bought my DS7 in the US and I live in Israel. The above explanations perfectly fit my case. Unfortunately, the given link does not include my region (Israel or Middle East, etc). Can somebody help me ? My DS7 runs a stock HC 3.2. The device is unrooted, but I will root it just for solving the GPS problem. BTW, why my Galaxy S bought in Europe does not have such problem ? Is this gps.conf specific in tablets only or in the US devices ?
Another thoughts. Now it seems to me extremely unreasonable to run specific GPS files in different regions. GPS, by definition is supposed to be used in different regions. Should I replace the GPS file in my every trip? Sounds more than unreasonable. I used a Windows CE based PDA with GPS all around the globe without that issue. It does took me a while to fix satellites in a new region for the first time. But then it was getting fixed fast even after complete shut off.
I can't beleive Android is that imperfect. If this option would be included in the menu (e.g. in Regional settings), I would like it. But performing such complicated actions in each trip ???
margol1 said:
Another thoughts. Now it seems to me extremely unreasonable to run specific GPS files in different regions. GPS, by definition is supposed to be used in different regions. Should I replace the GPS file in my every trip? Sounds more than unreasonable. I used a Windows CE based PDA with GPS all around the globe without that issue. It does took me a while to fix satellites in a new region for the first time. But then it was getting fixed fast even after complete shut off.
I can't beleive Android is that imperfect. If this option would be included in the menu (e.g. in Regional settings), I would like it. But performing such complicated actions in each trip ???
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Stop your trolling, ephemeris data, ie: what's set up in gps.conf, is to speed up cold starts. it does nothing else, it's not Android specific, in fact all it's doing is downloaded a set of the data that your GPS would otherwise have to slowly acquire from the satellites, which takes 2-10 minutes, depending on conditions and how many sats are seen.
All GPS units do this, but GPS units that have a network available will potentially download ephemeris data to speed up satellite acquisition. Otherwise they just download it. Only time you'll really notice it going slow is if it's been more than 4-5 days (I believe 7 is the official data expiration, but the older it is, the less accurate it is) or you've changed areas since you last turned on the GPS.
Keep in mind that phone-based GPS's suck. They're inaccurate, they're not sensitive, their antennas are not optimal. This is true for nearly all PDA's or Phones, Tablets, etc.. Some may be better than others. They're optimized for space, price, and somewhat for battery life. Not accuracy, precision, or cold starts (beyond A-GPS data downloads, which is an OS function that makes the data available to the GPS)
This means my unit is faulty (apparently it is a common problem for DS7). Otherwise I would have similar cold starts for all three devices I have tested (DS7, Galaxy S and Optimus One). On the other hand, in the light of your explanataion, my tests are, probably, wrong. DS7 is WiFi only, while another two are GSM (no data plans though). In other forums, I read that changing gps.conf file in WiFi only devices dramatically improves cold starts. Apparently they all have been connected to WiFi while starting. I have prepared the appropriate file for my region, but don't know how to root my DS7 with stock HC 3.2. The thread I found here is not sufficiently detail for noobs like me. So, in the mean time I will continue using the external GPS. It is indeed much better than the internal one besides the cold start problem (though much less convinient). If you know a link to the step-by-step instructions for rooting DS7 running stock HC 3.2, I will greatly appreciate it.
margol1 said:
The thread I found here is not sufficiently detail for noobs like me. So, in the mean time I will continue using the external GPS. It is indeed much better than the internal one besides the cold start problem (though much less convinient). If you know a link to the step-by-step instructions for rooting DS7 running stock HC 3.2, I will greatly appreciate it.
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Click to collapse
Always possible there's a problem with the GPS, maybe the antenna is defective or connected badly. Hope you figure it out.
I have two bluetooth GPS, one Holux 236 I've had about 6 years, another Columbus V900 I was going to replace the Holux with, as it's newer, should have better sensitivity, and has built-in track logging. Except that its accuracy is off, it's precise.... precisely wrong. It's always about 9 meters off. And my primarily use for it is Geocaching, and my Holux 236 is always dead on.. So my new BT GPS is basically used as a track logger. Ah well All that said, I primarily use the BT GPS with my phone while geocaching or hiking or such, but I have used it on the tablet a few times, but most often I just use the built-in GPS on my DS7 because I don't need high precision with it the way I use it.
khaytsus said:
Stop your trolling, ephemeris data, ie: what's set up in gps.conf, is to speed up cold starts. it does nothing else, it's not Android specific, in fact all it's doing is downloaded a set of the data that your GPS would otherwise have to slowly acquire from the satellites, which takes 2-10 minutes, depending on conditions and how many sats are seen.
All GPS units do this, but GPS units that have a network available will potentially download ephemeris data to speed up satellite acquisition. Otherwise they just download it. Only time you'll really notice it going slow is if it's been more than 4-5 days (I believe 7 is the official data expiration, but the older it is, the less accurate it is) or you've changed areas since you last turned on the GPS.
Keep in mind that phone-based GPS's suck. They're inaccurate, they're not sensitive, their antennas are not optimal. This is true for nearly all PDA's or Phones, Tablets, etc.. Some may be better than others. They're optimized for space, price, and somewhat for battery life. Not accuracy, precision, or cold starts (beyond A-GPS data downloads, which is an OS function that makes the data available to the GPS)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, khaytsus.
All this fix does is speed up the initial contact to the GPS satellites for your region. You don't have to use this, you can wait till the GPS in the DS7 makes contact if you want.
khaytsus said:
Always possible there's a problem with the GPS, maybe the antenna is defective or connected badly. Hope you figure it out.
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Click to collapse
The most strange is that the GPS is fine after getting fixed . At least, no difference with Galaxy S, i.e. roughly the same number of satellites, SNR, accuracy. So, the only problem is unreasonably long cold start. I am not sure how it could be caused by a defective antenna. Anyway, in the mean time I decided to use an external GPS. I have three units, two BT and one mouse, which I used to use with my nettop in the pre-tablet era. Yesterday I connected my Hollux 236 to 12 V using a concealed cable and switch. So, now the procedure is reasonably simple: switch on 236, a few clicks on BluetoothGPS and, when the connection is established, I am clicking iGO8. It works like a charm, besides several additional actions I have to perform. When I will sicceed to root my DS7, I will try to play with the gps.conf file anyway.
P.S. I got an idea to connect my mouse GPS using the DS7 docking unit. I have a simple one with two microUSB I/O. Not sure it will work, but, if yes, it can simplify everything dramatically. I will try it on the weekend and let you know about the results.
Thanks.
OK, after two weeks of testing I still don't have a reasonable solution:
1. The USB mouse GPS connected the cradle does not work at all.
2. My greatest disapointment is with the external GPS. It works perfect... when it works. I am using the Bluetooth GPS application to get connected. After several successful connections, without any visible reason, the GPS is not getting connected to DS7, although the application shows many satellites with large SNR (>30-35). However accuracy = 0 and no GPS signal message in iGO8. This happens only from time to time and as I have already mentioned without any visible reason.
Will try another applications and GPS devices.
Hi guys,
I have a question. I was just browsing around and trying to understand distance measurement sensors. I found what I think is a general overview over the different sensor types (http://zuff.info/RangeFindersComp_E.html). However, I was wondering if anybody has a little more knowledge in this area. I was wondering if there is a sensor type that can measure the distance of the sensor to a base station (or better yet three base stations). My objective is find the sensor's position eventually in a three-space, probably within 40ft radius (open space). Sonar works with sound waves, and the environment is rather noisy therefore I think it will influence the measurements a lot. The problem I see with IR/Laser measurement is that the sensor will constantly be moving and might have a small object blocking the direct line between base stations and the sensor.
So I was wondering - if you take SIM cards and triangulate their location using the cell towers, you will get a location using a network connection, correct? But these kind of positioning sensors are not listed. Would there be a way to use the same principle scaled down to the the smaller area of approx 5000ft^2? Maybe through some kind of Wifi? The important thing to me is to find that position in a three dimensional space.
Does anybody have any suggested where I should look further or read upon? It's like my little pet project that was spinning in my head for a little I appreciate any feedback!
All the best,
Phill
edit: If the sensors sent out a signal, and three different base stations measure the signal strength at any given time, would that be enough to pinpoint the sensors location?