Database Develop

[Q] Does Google not continuing the Nexus One line threaten the future of Android?

So I have been giving a lot of thought to this subject ever since reading a few articles a couple of weeks back about the CEO of Google Eric Schmidt saying that they have no plans on making a "Nexus Two." Not only this, but Google stating that they will no longer sell the Nexus One direct and unlocked from the www.google.com/phone store. My question is, does this threaten the Android platform in the future. I personally think it won't because Android will continue to live on, but the open Android that we have come to know and love today will be jeopardized. This is why I decided to start this thread to see how others feel about this subject and ask some important questions about the fate of Android.
To start off we really have to see what Google's Nexus One brought to the world of Android to be able to see what we will be missing if there is no "Google phone" in the future. On January 5, 2010 Google threw a press conference where it called it's new baby the Nexus One a "superphone" and ever since then the i has been in the news having every flaw dissected and blown out of proportion by tech blogs all around the web. Yes, the Nexus One had some big flaws like the multitouch screen, early T-Mobile 3G problems, No multitouch pinch to zoom (now changed), and even the pentile arrangement of pixels on the AMOLED screen, but it also was the first in the smartphone world (unless you count the HD2, but we are talking about Android not WM in this discussion) to have a lot of huge features that now started this Android revolution. It had a powerful Snapdragon 1 Ghz processor (up to this point the biggest we had was the Droid with an Arm Cortex A8 550 mhz processor), 3.7 inch AMOLED screen (WVGA 800x480 pixels) , 512 mb of RAM (most had 256mb RAM), 5mp camera (with LED flash and 720x480 video capture), and one of the lightest (130 grams with battery), sleekest 119mm heidth by 59.8mm depth), and thinnest (11.5mm) phones on the market. The Droid paved the road and the Nexus One showed OEM's what the top of the line Android phone must have to compete in specs. The Nexus One launched with Eclair 2.1 and was the first to bring it to the world. A couple months after launch Google gave pinch to zoom multitouch to the Nexus One and this allowed other phones like the Droid and now most of the Android phones available to get this much desired feature. Perhaps one of the best features of the phone was that it launched with an unlocked bootloader and introduced the world to the adb command "fastboot oem unlock." I know that are beloved developers have been unlocking the full potential of phones since the Windows Mobile days, but Android has brought that even further. Since then the Nexus One has quickly become the dev phone of the Android world. If you don't like a feature simply change it or flash a different ROM. This wonderful world that the great developers in the Android community work so hard to bring to us is really the "killer feature" of the Android OS and this is being threatened by not having anymore "Google phones." Lately we are seeing companies like Motorola and Verizon using eFuse to lock down their phones and keeping people that spend their hard earned money from flashing ROM's. I am sure the whole eFuse thing has been blown out of proportion and I am sure the next Android superstar (or one of the many we already have here on XDA) will unlock the Droid X to it's full potential, but the mere fact that these companies are locking down phones using the FREE Android OS is very disheartening. We don't want the same cat and mouse game that Apple and their iPhone customers have to play to unlock and use their phones and this is one of the many reasons people flock to the open Android OS.
Not only do we risk "locking down" the platform, but by not having any further Nexus phones we will more than likely never see another Vanilla Android phone. Instead we are seeing what the OEMs and wireless providers want us to see and this is evident in the losing of WiFi tethering in the latest build of Android 2.2, or known as Froyo. If a wireless provider doesn't want a feature (like tethering) the OEM's are then pressured into leaving it out to make them happy. This is not a good thing in my opinion as it again puts the power and fate of Android in the wireless providers like Verizon and AT&T where we are quickly losing the openness of Android and the ability to even side load applications. This is exactly why we need a phone like the Nexus One. A phone that will push the boundaries of innovation and keep the wireless companies honest by simple competition. They won't leave an important feature out if the Google phone already has a version of it out and available unlocked. Without Google making a phone we are left with whatever skin the OEMs have minus the features the wireless companies don't want included. If the Nexus One would not of been released we would be stuck with minimal upgrades and even worse what would make the OEMs and providers hurry with the newest release (Froyo in this case and soon to be Gingerbread)? If Google wouldn't of pushed Android 2.2 to the Nexus One then would all the companies like HTC, Samsung, and Motorola even be racing to get Froyo out? In my opinion the Nexus One is the only reason that these companies are trying to get 2.2 out in a timely basis. I mean I may be wrong as I am not a developer, but what would really make the OEMs and providers want to hurry with their releases if they didn't have the competition? I think it would be the opposite and these companies would make us buy their newest and top of the line Android phone just to get the newest and best Android release. This has been proven in the past and if it wasn't for the iPhone and Google's Android the smartphone world would be a very different place filled with Bada OSs, Windows Mobile phones, no app stores, and worse of all mediocre upgrades. This is the real reason we need Google to release a phone so they can take the fate of Android (and the power, in my opinion) away from greedy wireless companies and OEM's that only look to sell us a phone multiple times a year.
I have really given a lot of thought to this because ever since I purchased my Nexus One back in March (without AT&Ts permission, I should add) I had planned on buying a "Google phone" every year. I was aware that Google would work closely with different OEMs and we would get a great dev phone every year with the latest and greatest Vanilla Android, free from the clutches of wireless contracts, and most of all "OPEN." This was a great idea and I can see why Google's idea of selling a phone didn't catch on here in the states, but they accomplished a lot more than selling millions of devices like Apple does. They accomplished (along with the Droid, which I might add Google had a big hand in creating and bringing to life, and also was free of a locked bootloader) bringing Android to the masses and making the statement to companies that a top of the line Android phone needs to have these specs to compete in the Android world.
I just went out and bought me a Samsung Captivate and to be honest the first thing I thought I would get rid of was TouchWiz, but it has kind of grown on me. I think HTC Sense is nice as well, but I will always be a Vanilla Android fan and there is something about the Nexus One that always brings me back. This will be a phone that I will not ever get rid of and is still the best phone I have ever owned. I am sure many others feel the same way and the Nexus One will continue to be a niche kind of product, but I think I have made the argument that Google needs a phone to further Android and keep the fate of it's Android in it's hands. This could get out of control quick and it could turn bad. We are just nearing the top and Android is here to stay and will be the OS that everyone else attempts to mimic. Come on Google I know I am not the only one that feels this way and this is why I started this thread to get the feel of others in the Android community as I am sure there are others that are worried as well. The open Android that we know and love today is in jeopardy if Google doesn't maintain a little control over their Android OS. The OEM's and wireless companies are going to ruin the openness of Android if they don't have a constant pressure keeping them honest. One of the main reasons that Android has grown so rapidly is that a company like Google has created it to be free, open, and common to many phones so we don't have to worry about dozens of companies with mediocre platforms. Weigh in and let me know how you feel and maybe just maybe we can get someones attention. Feel free to copy this on other forums as I feel we need to save the idea of an open Android. One without the boundaries of no side loading of apps, eFuses, locked bootloaders, and most of all innovation and the advancement of the Android platform.

Google's own line of phones phone has zero influence on the android os.

JCopernicus said:
Google's own line of phones phone has zero influence on the android os.
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Yes, you are right, but without a Google phone what will Android be like? We won't see another Vanilla Android phone that is for sure.

Not being able to see into the future makes this a hard statement to take as fact.

There were vanilla phones before nexus one and there will continue to be more
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

If you want a true vanilla android phone grabe one of HTC's china phones, not even google apps are on it. =D

I agree with the basic premise that the Nexus One did provide leverage to potentially (and I think that is a key qualifier) keep the competition honest, but it isn't clear that it would do so without significantly more marketing. And, to market the Nexus One more could have annoyed some of the vendors that Google wants to keep happy - lots of happy vendors means lots of seats for Android means lots of seats off of which Google makes a lot of money. In particular, if every Android phone is locked, then Google still makes a mint, though they stand to make more of a mint if the platform is more widely adopted. And, an open phone does have an impact on platform adoption, but I don't think it is that critical since the public is used to buying fixed feature-set phones and upgrading for new features so this isn't an issue of taking away something that they demand as it is failing to give them something that they would come to know and love (as we already do).
But, I also want to counter some of the supporting arguments you present.
First, the current wave of smartphones was headed here one way or another. Google didn't create the wave, they simply reacted and targeted Android at the capabilities that were coming down the pike. To do that most effectively they needed a new developer phone and the Nexus One was going to be released in January one way or another as the ADP3 until they had this idea to sell direct. It was simply them needing to get out a testbed for the new Android capabilities that were targeted at the new baseline smartphone hardware and they chose to do it in an experimental new way this time. If they hadn't released the Nexus One direct to consumers then you would have seen the same phones come out and you would have seen the same OS releases, you just wouldn't have had a large installed base of end users previewing it on a non-developer handset.
Second, I think the main factor spurring the vendors to get 2.2 out quickly is that it offers so much, not that they have to keep up with the Nexus One. It is, in my opinion, the biggest release so far (and I've been with Android since 1.0) primarily because of the JIT. Also, all the manufacturers came out with what would become the new standard amount of RAM (512MB) and the existing release available for them to ship on did not support it, so they need to get on 2.2 in order to simply unlock the hardware they originally designed. In some sense, these phones were really designed for 2.2 - 2.1 was simply a stepping stone to get them shipped on their hardware schedule until 2.2 was ready on its software schedule. So, there are really 2 factors that would encourage them to get 2.2 out on their 2010-class phones that have nothing to do with the Nexus One being here.
As far as vanilla phones... The G1 was vanilla. The original Droid was vanilla (is it still vanilla with the latest releases?). The Nexus One was vanilla. But, where there any others? I love my vanilla phones (first G1 then N1), but I don't mind value added by the vendors, I just wish they would make it easier to customize things away and that they would learn to design their add-ons so that they can be easily dropped on to a new Android release with little fuss...

Short answer: No. It does not.
Simply put, there will always be a phone that will have Vanilla Android. If for nothing more than using that as a sale point. Especially with Andy 3.0 in the horizon which focus is on the UI. No worries.

Of course it doesn't.

Simple answer, no. There have always been vanilla Android phones, the developer phones at least, and there will always be developer phones. In fact, the Nexus is still for sale now as the latest developer phone.

Eventually there will be another vanilla Android phone that Google is behind, unless they get their own hardware built by someone and don't sell it publicly... but that wouldn't make much sense, just like it wouldn't make any sense for them to not ever have another phone.
Soon enough, the 2ghz and dual-core phones will be out, and eventually mobile devices will catch up to computers in terms of power. They're gonna have to.

I'm sure they will come out with a different dev phone in the future.

I agree with the op, up to a point. While it may be true that there'll always be a phone Google gets behind -a 'dev' phone, if you will- I think it still limits choice for people who want the vanilla experience. Is it really ok to just have one phone that's vanilla?
To the op: "If the Nexus One would not of been released...."
I think you mean "had not been released..."
and: "If Google wouldn't of pushed Android 2.2 to the Nexus One then...."
It's "If Google hadn't pushed Android..."
Sorry for the pedantry. Bad grammar just spoilt a good, well-thought out post.

Consumer are what they are a android is one of the greatest os I have experience.all those problems was soft ware issue and minor only something a child would complain about.i have a nexus almost went with a nokia n900 glad I didn't .proud of google.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

[Q] nexus one and gingerbread - past and future?

if gingerbread is the future of android devices, it suppose to support hardware capabilities that may not be on the nexus that has been around for a while.
i really wanted to buy a nexus, but it seems that when android 3.0 is out - it should be followed by high end devices by HTC and others.
i really don't know what to do here...
gingerbread is said to launch mid november - not a long time to hold off.
but hey, what do think? wait or buy nexus now?

That is Exactly what I am doing! The desire HD looks wonderful, but i think There will be a VERY nice phone coming on T mobile with new gingerbread already there around Christmas....Just my guess
It seems T mobile and Google have some sort of special deal when it comes to android, like getting stock android phones.....and there MUST be a stock gingerbread phone coming soon!

oronm said:
if gingerbread is the future of android devices, it suppose to support hardware capabilities that may not be on the nexus that has been around for a while.
i really wanted to buy a nexus, but it seems that when android 3.0 is out - it should be followed by high end devices by HTC and others.
i really don't know what to do here...
gingerbread is said to launch mid november - not a long time to hold off.
but hey, what do think? wait or buy nexus now?
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Click to collapse
First, Gingerbread will run fine on a N1. Second, no matter when you buy a phone in a couple months another one will come out that is even better. The N1 has an awesome modding scene though.

First, Gingerbread will run fine on a N1.
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nobody know that for sure...the minimal requirements may suit the N1 but it may lack the ability to perform certain tasks. we've seen it happen with other phones.
Second, no matter when you buy a phone in a couple months another one will come out that is even better
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true for most cases. to me nexus is different from others by design. that phone feels right. i really couldn't care less about all these samsungs or motorolas that are out there. and other htc devices seem too big like the desire HD that was mentioned.
basicly, the world need a NEXUS TWO!

So you think Google will develop an OS using their development phone, but not all features of the OS will work on the phone they developed it on? I highly doubt that. Google debunked the minimum requirements roomer for Gingerbread, that was nothing but a site trying to get traffic. Do a little thinking on the subject.
If I were getting a new phone soon though, I would wait till the next gen ones come out. I do love my Nexus though!

the nexus one was a success in regard of telling the world "this is what android can do right now". others did follow and it is biting the market share making other mobile OS look like code accidents.
none the less, why shouldn't gingerbread allow "facetime like" video service for capable devices? the technology for that is in the wild. that is only one example. i am sure there are more features just like that.
at this point, maybe it would be smarter to wait.

oronm said:
the nexus one was a success in regard of telling the world "this is what android can do right now". others did follow and it is biting the market share making other mobile OS look like code accidents.
none the less, why shouldn't gingerbread allow "facetime like" video service for capable devices? the technology for that is in the wild. that is only one example. i am sure there are more features just like that.
at this point, maybe it would be smarter to wait.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether or not Gingerbread includes a facetime like option is irrelevant to how it will run on the N1. Obviously any phone without a front-facing camera will not be able to do something like facetime. Gingerbread itself will run just fine on the N1. Without going into any technical reasons, just think of this. Of all the Android phones out there right now, the top ones are all in the general vicinity of the N1 in performance. If Gingerbread wouldn't run on the N1, then you cut out these phones too which means only as-yet-unreleased phones would run Gingerbread. So on what basis are you questioning it?
You should probably wait though since you don't seem sure about the N1. The only guarantee you can have is that in a few months from now an even better phone will be released. And then a few months from that once again, and repeat... Dual core snapdragons will start finding their way into phones at some point soon. If you're not rushed then just wait and see what comes out.

Game over tab 8.9?

Samsung will likely release a next gen tab in Barcelona. Will this mean minimal support for our tab?
I was a big defender of android for 2 years. But i have had it. Will switch over to iphone 5 and ipad 3. Our tab rom from Samsung is suboptimal to say the least. Still no ICS. App quality still sucks for business, science, musicians etc. Improvement too slow. I thought differently 6 months ago but now it seems we can not catch up to Apple ecosystem.
I am just trying to make a rational decision, no ideological arguments.
I know I know...go ahead, hit me...
cheers
chris

There's a couple of nice ICS roms over in the development forum, I'm using the latest Galaxian Soup alpha and it's awesome.

I agree.. I'm feeling frustrated from lag and the low support from my device. Yes Apple taking the full control for IOS.. But I realise that its for good.....
Sent from my GT-P7300 using XDA App

I am still not sold on the iOS

here at the WEF
I also need to admit that I am in a bad mood right now...which prompted me to start this thread.
I am here in Davos at the wef. looking around I see only ipads. the special wef app on my tab 8.9 fcs all the time, looks terribly designed and can not be used in landscape on the tablet!
on the ipad the same app looks great andworks in landscape. that just fuelled my anger....

MelFranks said:
There's a couple of nice ICS roms over in the development forum, I'm using the latest Galaxian Soup alpha and it's awesome.
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Click to collapse
None of the roms for the 8.9 seem to display hdmi out correctly or have other significant issues.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk

SGSChris said:
I also need to admit that I am in a bad mood right now...which prompted me to start this thread.
I am here in Davos at the wef. looking around I see only ipads. the special wef app on my tab 8.9 fcs all the time, looks terribly designed and can not be used in landscape on the tablet!
on the ipad the same app looks great andworks in landscape. that just fuelled my anger....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well but that ain't really androids or samsungs fault. if someone designs a crappy app for android and a well working app for ios then of course it will look better on ios....
as for support. the older iphones aren't getting any updates and ipad1 is missing out on a lot of features that the ipad2 got via software. so it aint like android is all bad and ios is all good.
that being said, yeah samsung is being slow releasing stuff and touchwizz is bloated crap. they should try and please people releasing updates as fast as possible instead of bloating them and making them slower.

I've only owned my sgt 8.9 for a month and I think th nhardware is fantastic and going from iphone 3-4s and my wifes ipad 2 to this android and samsung show they can pull it off better than apple in most ways.... But.....
Time between releases isn't practical, the features of true clean android os (no samsung excess besides ebook) are fantastic but samsung kill it with touchwiz and excess compulsary samsung apps, and the market is great but also it's own worst enemy. (but we cant do anything about that because its un-regulated so to speak). Been muking around with custom roms and my hats off to the develooers as they're are really trying to polish up and bring us the best experience possible but they're relying on samsung to continue support but sadly they just are developing enough for our developers to improve on.
It's sad when a combination of 2 great products with both ability, style and funding can't bring it together and focus on fewer models or realeases to perfect something thats already almost there and really flex there muscles in the face of the competition.
Sent from my GT-P7300 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk

jpbutler said:
None of the roms for the 8.9 seem to display hdmi out correctly or have other significant issues.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true, I suppose it really depends upon what you are using the tablet for.

pseudoheld said:
well but that ain't really androids or samsungs fault. if someone designs a crappy app for android and a well working app for ios then of course it will look better on ios....
as for support. the older iphones aren't getting any updates and ipad1 is missing out on a lot of features that the ipad2 got via software. so it aint like android is all bad and ios is all good.
that being said, yeah samsung is being slow releasing stuff and touchwizz is bloated crap. they should try and please people releasing updates as fast as possible instead of bloating them and making them slower.
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Click to collapse
agree, but that is why we need to consider the whole ecosystem that generates design standards, a sense of esthetics and professionalism and coolness...
samsung seems to push new bricks with better technology at a frantic speed but this does not improve usability. they are bad at engaging users and are terrible on the softwareside. It also seems that the ios ecosystem has the more demanding users that care less about tech and custom roms but overall usability.
I have my tab now for 5 months, there has not been a release of any appropriate rom by samsung for a 600$ Tablet! not acceptable...and my sgs i9000 is also not supported anymore by samsung...

I have an 8.9 and I feel your pain as well. I want Android to work out but it seems the manufacturers are only interested in the initial sale of the item, after that support dwindles quickly. Compare this to Apple who understands that your building a relationship with your customer. I think it sucks that the Kindle Fire has better support then the Galaxy Tab and most honeycomb devices.
App support with Android is poor at best. When compatibility has to be reviewed for each device by the developer (Hello hulu, netflix, & Gameloft!), you have a poor ecosystem. A number of really good games avail on the iPad do not even have Android the radar.
Still, I hang in there, because I don't like Apples restrictive system. Hoping manufacturers & developers will get on board and fix things. If it doesn't change in the next year though, I'm out and going back to iPad, because at the end of the day I want to use my device not hack it.

I can understand the frustration fully. I have an LG Optimus S, and my wife just upgraded off her Samsung Moment. Sometimes, vendor support for the latest version of android is minimal at best. In contrast, Apple EOLs their hardware, and there is no coming back from that. Every hardware update/major version release sees the previous oldest supported platform unsupported. Additionally, even the previous version sees missing features on the software side (ref iphone 4 + siri) that hafe been proven to run on the older platform.
Atleast with android, you can rely on strong dev communities to build new versions of the software in a timely manner. All weekend I ran the ICS alpha/beta and it is very nice!

I like my tab mainly for the size and form, and for 360 dollars it was a deal. It doesn't work any better them my Acer A500, which is more use full in the long run. Anyways my first android was the Samsung Moment which was terrible, htc hero, evo, nexus s, Acer A100, Acer A500, nook color, I pad 2, and now this 8.9. So I have had a lot of experience and I can surely say this is my last android mobile device. I'm tired of being a lab rat for these half baked devices all has had major problems. I don't want to have to rely on developers to fix things. I have only kept the I pad for a month and couldn't live without Google's services, but now I'm over it. Until they get more control over these manufactures to provide updates in a timely manor and manufactures fix their hardware I don't see a reason to stay. I guess the flexibility of android comes at a price and we all get burned.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk

This is a really interesting thread, because it portrays what I think would be a very different opinion versus if you asked the same question other in the dev board. And the different demographics involves paralleled a conversation I had the other day at work.
I am a complete Android head - half the appeal for me is tinkering with the thing. I see that as normal - no, actually I see that as a big part of the experience. I hate the iPad because it is so rigidly locked down in every respect. I had an iPad, but found it stifling and could get on with it even jailbroken.
I was shocked, however, when a girl at work gave a ten minute scathing diatribe on Android based on her experience with a low end Samsung phone. "But that was a low end Android phone!" I said. "It was bound to be slow and clunky. That's not a fair assessment of Android to base it on that experience. Plus, even if it was underpowered hardware, you probably could still have found a ROM for it out there that'd solve most of the problems you were having".
She didn't care. She just wanted the thing to work out of the box and her eyes glazed over when I started talking about ROMs.
It was a new perspective for me and I find myself recommending devices differently now. Time was I would have recommended the GT 8.9 unequivocally. The form factor plus hardware (in my opinion) beats anything else currently on the market. And I'd put my ICS equipped 8.9 up against any iPad in terms of user experience and I'd say it comes out on top. However, if you want a tablet that you get out of the box and use, it's not this one. The stock Samsung Android install is an abortion and unless you are happy to tweak (or have a family member who'll do it for you) it's not the device for you.
And therein lies the problem with 99% of Android devices on the market. Until vendors get over this need to differentiate their devices by adding layer after layer of bloat on top of Android, Android will continue to play second fiddle to iOS in terms of the user experience - even if that iOS user experience is rigidly controlled and prevents you from doing basic things like moving an icon a couple of spaces away from another.

I never had a problem with android until I lost my nexus one. Then I entered the world of other manufacturers devices. So far they all suck. HTC has the ****ty looking sense the I dare to define a great punch in the face to good design, Samsung is notoriously known for making good hardware but not giving a crap about the software, I'm not sure why this is, why they think that the software is not as important to the device. My next try will be with Asus, they seem to update their software on top of having decent hardware. This in regard of tablets for phones, i'll switch to a nexus device as soon as my HTC dies or the galaxy nexus comes to t-mobile.
I went through apple and i dont like the company. First of all i'm forced most of the time at work to use imacs to work on visual effects, i dont know where studio owners get their facts, but those machine sucks for production! They are designed for customers not professionals, they have the guts of a laptop and none of the benefits. Then i have a macbook that gave me nothing but hardware problems for 3 years, an iphone 4 that i can't use because its super locked to at&t and i used to have an ipod touch which died unexpectedly during a vacation. The only apple stuff i'm kinda happy about are my two ipods that still survive (and yet do not allow, me to officially get my music out of them).
So as you can see I'm fed up with apple and their shady hardware, they killed all the great professional stuff they had (shake, final cut pro, quicktime pro, apple servers and raids) and i don't think osx has any advantage over windows anymore either.
There are two faces to every coin, but I'm sure one day I will find a good tablet/phone/computer maker for my needs, it's just a trial and error job.
Good luck with Apple I hope you'll be more lucky than me!

Loccy said:
It was a new perspective for me and I find myself recommending devices differently now.
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nice post mate. i totally agree with you and half the fun for me with android is the messing about and tweaking stuff. the only android phones i would recomend without thinking twice are the nexus series (because they are bloat free) and the s2 because its just and awesome device. but yeah if you have something more "consumerish" and don't feel like messing around with it you aren't gonna have the nices experience.
for the technologically unprepaired person an iProduct is probably better because it just works as they think it should (even though its awefully restrained and restricted)
DBBGBA said:
I never had a problem with android until I lost my nexus one.
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Click to collapse
i'm still running my n1 and loving it
as for apple machines for production...i have a lot to do in the video sector and we use macpros with final cut (7 not x )
i must say they are awesome machines but also have a few downsides.
they are friggin expensive (as everything apple)
they are not the error free devices everyone thinks they are. only last month we had 2 graphics cards dying 1 hdd giving up and 2 OS corruptions. so the myth about apple products not breaking down is...a myth!
so yeah if you are prepared to tinker i would go with android all the way. if you are my mum or someone else that just wants to USE something and not get involved with it...then i guess the i is the way to go.

I showed my stock skyrocket when I first bought it, she didn't even wanted to look.
Then I installed my preferred launcher (Launcher 7) and custom roms, lots of small tricks and clean ups (hid all the extra apps like Ti Backup, Root Explorer, etc.) and let the Windows Phone 7 interface dominate with big Twitter and Facebook buttons, Big camera and email button, weather. She was sold. She played with it while I was watching tv for a good while.
If the iPhone 5 will feature yet another 3.5" display, I'll take your phone no problem, she said.
I think the Android Interface, esp. the launcher, the widget handling, etc. leaves a lot to be desired. WP7 less is more approach works for some.

RipplingHurst said:
WP7 less is more approach works for some.
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I agree in fact I'm very curious to try one WP7 device for a while and maybe start suggesting that instead of iphones.

SGSChris said:
Samsung will likely release a next gen tab in Barcelona. Will this mean minimal support for our tab?
I was a big defender of android for 2 years. But i have had it. Will switch over to iphone 5 and ipad 3. Our tab rom from Samsung is suboptimal to say the least. Still no ICS. App quality still sucks for business, science, musicians etc. Improvement too slow. I thought differently 6 months ago but now it seems we can not catch up to Apple ecosystem.
I am just trying to make a rational decision, no ideological arguments.
I know I know...go ahead, hit me...
cheers
chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you need an application that you cannot live without then go with ipad. You might be prepared that new ipad3 will blow ipad2 away but this is a bout making more and more money.
I was with Apple before Android. Now I am proud not following the iCrowd.
After stripping all bloatware and services my Sammy serves me well.
In regards to ICS I tried it on Xoom and didn't see anything vitally important.
It seems that in one year every piece of hardware becomes largely irrelevant and in two obsolete.

its still fck alpha so whats the point here??
---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------
qhinton said:
I like my tab mainly for the size and form, and for 360 dollars it was a deal. It doesn't work any better them my Acer A500, which is more use full in the long run. Anyways my first android was the Samsung Moment which was terrible, htc hero, evo, nexus s, Acer A100, Acer A500, nook color, I pad 2, and now this 8.9. So I have had a lot of experience and I can surely say this is my last android mobile device. I'm tired of being a lab rat for these half baked devices all has had major problems. I don't want to have to rely on developers to fix things. I have only kept the I pad for a month and couldn't live without Google's services, but now I'm over it. Until they get more control over these manufactures to provide updates in a timely manor and manufactures fix their hardware I don't see a reason to stay. I guess the flexibility of android comes at a price and we all get burned.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is soooo true... despite to the fact how much i hate apple as company...
---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------
Adapt0r said:
If you need an application that you cannot live without then go with ipad. You might be prepared that new ipad3 will blow ipad2 away but this is a bout making more and more money.
I was with Apple before Android. Now I am proud not following the iCrowd.
After stripping all bloatware and services my Sammy serves me well.
In regards to ICS I tried it on Xoom and didn't see anything vitally important.
It seems that in one year every piece of hardware becomes largely irrelevant and in two obsolete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like to use half finished products just not to follow the iCrowd than i am sorry for u... just that.

Ideapad K1 Source Code Released!

As per the title says, just so happen to check the Lenovo forums today after reading here they released TPT source yesterday and sure enough the K1 source was released this morning!
Direct Link
http://download.lenovo.com/lenovo/content/sm/IdeaPadTablet-K1.zip
Link to the Thread
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/IdeaPad-Slate-Tablets/Android-Source-Code/td-p/610273/page/5
Hopefully our humble and dedicated developers can tear this apart and start on some custom ROMS, maybe even kernels?? (I have high hopes clearly!)
On a side note, might not be worth mentioning, but I did notice that the source for the K1 was roughly 72mb in size while the TPT source was in upwards of 202mb?? Same compression for both, food for thought...
Robert

Great news ....the building blocks have arrived
Sent from my HTC Evo 3D with Beats Audio X515m using XDA App

Now hoping for some love, the stock android is pretty slow and painful.....

Will be nice once the custom kernels come.. hopefully they will..
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA App

Thats awesome news, man!!!!!!! I didnt think lenovo would do it but wow, its a start.
Hopefully we can get some sweet roms and kernels on this bad boy (k1).

Just based on this news alone, I have ordered for one..
Sent from my HTC Vision

rezapatel said:
Just based on this news alone, I have ordered for one..
Sent from my HTC Vision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bad choice, hardly any support and current android 3.2.1 on it is buggy for the two that we own, stutters a lot.

Be Prepared for this lengthy response!
twe69 said:
Bad choice, hardly any support and current android 3.2.1 on it is buggy for the two that we own, stutters a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree even with the latest update, there are still bugs in the OS Lenovo loads on this tablet but this should not be a driving force with not buying one. Every tablet I've owned (K1 and the GTablet) or had the chance to tinker with (Xoom, Prime, etc...) have had their flaws, but I also feel this is also based on the user and their personal preferences with using their tablet. Not to mention, what that user would be using the device for (as a toy, or daily driver) has a huge amount to do with it.
What's important here is that they are all running on some form of an Android OS, and if you are willing to tinker and sometimes even experiment with your tablet, you will be able to get to some middle ground (depending on the device, its release date, the community following it has, and when/if the source code is released) based on what you are trying to get out of that particular device to where there are little to no issues.
http://rootzwiki.com/topic/13407-alpha-ideapad-k1-cwm-stock-rooted-rom-120109-build/
For me, I'm currently running the Alpha 3 CWM rom from rootzwiki (link above) and besides I think 1-2 FC's (ONLY happened upon uninstalling pre-loaded apps) it's ran smooth as silk! Granted, I use my K1 as mainly a 'toy' for experimenting with Android SDK, flashing ROM's and general tinkering but still...
Now, you could just drop the $400-$600 on an iPad and not have to worry about FC's and other bugs but then you're left with not only an extremely restricted device but a restricted device that you paid way more for when compared to the K1 for example. Don't get me wrong, after getting my first tablet (GTablet) I quickly realized the quality of the products Apple releases to the consumer public, and if you are a member of that 90%+ percentile of the public that just wants a device to work and doesn't plan on doing anything else to it (and possibly not being as computer savvy as that 5-10% percentile) Apple is the way to go. However atleast from my experiences with the iPad/iPhone, if you plan on doing any modifications remotely resembling base mod's that can be done on an Android device, you're either threatening your warranty or simply SOL.
In short, when I buy an Android phone/tablet I will never expect it to run flawlessly out of the box because A. I'm personally anal/picky/OCD with my hardware and B. I bought it for that initial time investment in order to have a device strictly tuned to my lifestyle and means of use. For this reason alone, an Apple product will never satisfy me (again nothing against anyone who does use Apple, just my 0.02).
I'd rather have a device that is cheaper to buy with arguably the same hardware specs or comparable and is finicky (to say the least at times), but has the potential to run whatever I can throw at it smoothly and most importantly to personalize it on levels that Apple would never allow on their products simply for fear of creating instabilities.
For the K1 however, Lenovo releasing the source is the 1st step towards achieving your own perfectly tuned and personalized device however long it might take. Afterall, one crucial characteristic of an Android user that majority of the members on this forum share is patience! It's what separates us from the rest!
Sorry for the long post, I just felt like expressing my opinion and I was in the typing mood.

Dueces99 said:
I agree even with the latest update, there are still bugs in the OS Lenovo loads on this tablet but this should not be a driving force with not buying one. Every tablet I've owned (K1 and the GTablet) or had the chance to tinker with (Xoom, Prime, etc...) have had their flaws, but I also feel this is also based on the user and their personal preferences with using their tablet. Not to mention, what that user would be using the device for (as a toy, or daily driver) has a huge amount to do with it.
What's important here is that they are all running on some form of an Android OS, and if you are willing to tinker and sometimes even experiment with your tablet, you will be able to get to some middle ground (depending on the device, its release date, the community following it has, and when/if the source code is released) based on what you are trying to get out of that particular device to where there are little to no issues.
http://rootzwiki.com/topic/13407-alpha-ideapad-k1-cwm-stock-rooted-rom-120109-build/
For me, I'm currently running the Alpha 3 CWM rom from rootzwiki (link above) and besides I think 1-2 FC's (ONLY happened upon uninstalling pre-loaded apps) it's ran smooth as silk! Granted, I use my K1 as mainly a 'toy' for experimenting with Android SDK, flashing ROM's and general tinkering but still...
Now, you could just drop the $400-$600 on an iPad and not have to worry about FC's and other bugs but then you're left with not only an extremely restricted device but a restricted device that you paid way more for when compared to the K1 for example. Don't get me wrong, after getting my first tablet (GTablet) I quickly realized the quality of the products Apple releases to the consumer public, and if you are a member of that 90%+ percentile of the public that just wants a device to work and doesn't plan on doing anything else to it (and possibly not being as computer savvy as that 5-10% percentile) Apple is the way to go. However atleast from my experiences with the iPad/iPhone, if you plan on doing any modifications remotely resembling base mod's that can be done on an Android device, you're either threatening your warranty or simply SOL.
In short, when I buy an Android phone/tablet I will never expect it to run flawlessly out of the box because A. I'm personally anal/picky/OCD with my hardware and B. I bought it for that initial time investment in order to have a device strictly tuned to my lifestyle and means of use. For this reason alone, an Apple product will never satisfy me (again nothing against anyone who does use Apple, just my 0.02).
I'd rather have a device that is cheaper to buy with arguably the same hardware specs or comparable and is finicky (to say the least at times), but has the potential to run whatever I can throw at it smoothly and most importantly to personalize it on levels that Apple would never allow on their products simply for fear of creating instabilities.
For the K1 however, Lenovo releasing the source is the 1st step towards achieving your own perfectly tuned and personalized device however long it might take. Afterall, one crucial characteristic of an Android user that majority of the members on this forum share is patience! It's what separates us from the rest!
Sorry for the long post, I just felt like expressing my opinion and I was in the typing mood.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
great read excellent points
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Dueces99 I shall check out that rom, will see if its possible for me since I am on the latest official version....
I did have a Blackberry Playbook with the original OS in December and that was much better for web browsing etc. Just hoping that Android 4 will have less issues on the tablet since I will be keeping the Lenovo....
Oh and I have been with Android for over 2 years since Android 1.5 and about 5 android phones..... So yeh I am patient
Will definitely pay attention to the next iteration of Windows Mobile though when I upgrade at the end of the year since I like the responsiveness of Windows Mobile 7/7.5.....

this is great news.. really think of selling mine for 300 or so.... if it still worth that ( 32 gb model) .. i might hold on to it now that the source is release and ( cross fingers) someone ports CM9 to it...
we can only wish...

lenovo said they will release ics for k1
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/IdeaPad...m-Sandwich-for-Ideapad-K1/td-p/638437/page/17
Apologies for the radio silence on this... we have been in discussion with our product teams and shared all the interest and feedback received here.
I believe the current outlook is that a plain version (sounds like it will not include the Lenovo customizations ) of ICS will be made available for download sometime in June. This is a bit later than the original May schedule and will not be pushed as an OTA (over the air update).
I appreciate everyone's patience - I know you have been waiting a while for an update on this.
Thanks
Mark

Dead

It seems to me that this phone has reached death. All the forums seemed to have died (here,droidhive,rootzwiki,android-den(which hasn't really taken off) and where ever else) and quite frankly I'm disappointed. There really hasn't been any steps forward in ICS since I don't even know when (hw codecs/bluetooth/whatever else). Unfortunately I'm still 9 months away from upgrading.
I don't mean to sound like I'm complaining because I really do appreciate all of the dev work thus far(Hashcode, sparkyman, and others are the shiz), but its like we've hit a brick wall. ICS isn't complete and won't be and gingerbread doesn't seem good enough. I am grateful of everyones work. I just wish more Could be done.
Sent from my XT862 using xda app-developers app

This was my first android phone and obviously a mistake. Not that I should have gotten an iprison(I am anti I everything). I hope progress can be made. At this point though I'm sure Motorola Was and Is a mistake and I should have known better previously owning a Q9C.
Sent from my XT862 using xda app-developers app

This should be in general
Sent from my XT860 using xda premium

Endoroid said:
This should be in general
Sent from my XT860 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why? It's about the development - the phone itself isnt dead.
But I agree. I was hoping to use this phone for 2 years (using 0.5 year now). I thought that eventually, we'd get ICS like we deserve. Guess not . I'm not sure how fast/supported this phone will be using gingerbread in 1.5 year

and except Droid 4 and RAZR MAXX..what other options we've got?!
galaxy no way (too big and overrated), and HTCs are all the same: big and no qwerty. nothing to get out of the crowd...like RAZR MAXX.
i used to be a fan of HTC, since S710 days..but now i'm bored by their lack of originality. no qwerty and no good processors for the small ones (<4" display).

not really dead everyone just faced the fact that ics will not happen for the d3 and blame the lack of ram for it..although we have proven that the d3 does and can handle ics and it does improve it no dev will continue to develop it due to the locked bootloader and the work involved to write all new kernals and bypasses fir it..there are 2 great gb roms in development..team haters (my fav) and mavrom{my 2nd fav}..both development crews hang out on droidforums stop by say hi and give their roms a whirl

Because its not development, its venting about our forgotten phone. And while I feel the same as you, its still not development
Sent from my XT860 using xda premium

I noticed the same thing but dont really mind.
Im on a ATT contract for another year and 4 months or so.
Ive always wanted a droid and got the droid 3 because it works on att. It has to be the best sliding keyboard phone out their, and beats using any virtual keyboard IMO.
Even if development isnt strong, we have got it better then a lot of other phones. We have stable gingerbread roms and we can overclock it.
The Droid 3 is still a good phone and i know il be getting a good year of use out of it. .. hopefully then keyboard phones come back to life...
But i never used to post really on these forums but seeing they are kind of dead, i decided to become as active as i can to help around.

Is the droid three dead? Yes, in a way. The phone's bootloader is locked. This is the ONLY thing that is stopping any major developments on the Droid 3. If Moto, or google at this point, decided to unlock the phone... We would have Ice Cream sandwich 100% working (provided that they released the source code as well), and we would be eagerly looking forward to Jelly Bean. I often go on the Google+ Google account and harass them, I know I won't win but I am always hoping for a miracle.
As it stands now, there is a large chance that I will leave Verizon when my contract is up. Their handling of this phone as well as their pocketbooks has left a bad taste in my mouth. After 6/28/2012 (my birthday of all things), any phone being upgraded via contract will LOOSE their UNLIMITED data. You will have to purchase phones off contract to be able to keep your unlimited plan (It's only like $400 for a good android phone). Not only that, you will be charged a $30 fee just to upgrade.
So in conclusion:
Our phone is on life support. We are getting by with such developers as TeamHaters, Maverick, and Hashcode (who's still realasing AOKP updates for our phones), who are doing an excellent job keeping our phones working the best they can with what they have. Until there is a cure for our Bootloader issue... Our phone is stuck in intensive care, and Patch Adams is their to annoy the hell out of it.

Does anyone think googles new PDK will help our device? its supposed to allow low level api for easier porting of android to hardware. Think this could bring around any fixes? Ofcourse the bootloader will be locked but it mite make the making of kernels not take 6-8 months as hash said and help him out.
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2

jesusishere said:
This is the ONLY thing that is stopping any major developments on the Droid 3. If Moto, or google at this point, decided to unlock the phone... We would have Ice Cream sandwich 100% working (provided that they released the source code as well), and we would be eagerly looking forward to Jelly Bean.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*sigh* I hate to be the one that has to come in and burst everyone's bubble every time someone makes this argument, but the problem is not the locked bootloader. If the bootloader was unlocked, we'd be in the same exact position. Hashcode has stated this several times. We'd still be without hardware codecs, we'd still be having Bluetooth issues, we'd still have all the same issues because they're all a matter of hardware limitations or lack of documentation on certain parts of the proprietary hardware.

Pokelover980 said:
*sigh* I hate to be the one that has to come in and burst everyone's bubble every time someone makes this argument, but the problem is not the locked bootloader. If the bootloader was unlocked, we'd be in the same exact position. Hashcode has stated this several times. We'd still be without hardware codecs, we'd still be having Bluetooth issues, we'd still have all the same issues because they're all a matter of hardware limitations or lack of documentation on certain parts of the proprietary hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the combination between the bootloader and the source code
Sent from my XT862 using xda premium

jesusishere said:
It's the combination between the bootloader and the source code
Sent from my XT862 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's more of a "TI doesn't support hardware codecs for devices >1GB data". TI doesn't release source code for those binaries and isn't obliged to, so that's not really an argument that should be made. It's simply that our phone was cursed from release.
EDIT: And as of now I can no longer say "our phone" as I jumped ship to the Razr... goodbye, Droid 3 community, you will be missed...

When Ics gets released this year for droid it is getting better
Sent from my DROID3 using XDA

Nope, it's not, because ICS isn't going to be released to D3. This is it, for better or worse.
Rocking with my M3 and XDA app

AragornPE said:
Nope, it's not, because ICS isn't going to be released to D3. This is it, for better or worse.
Rocking with my M3 and XDA app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
who cares. I had ICS on a device before and its not that different besides a different interface .. after using ICS i prefer gingerbread's layout..

Juicy555 said:
who cares. I had ICS on a device before and its not that different besides a different interface .. after using ICS i prefer gingerbread's layout..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ICS is majorly different from previous releases under the hood. It uses a different kernel; things have been made more efficient; the APIs have been updated to allow for more possibilities for app developers; certain parts of how the system overall operates have undergone drastic resigns; etc.. All of this came at the price of needing better hardware to incorporate new features, but I say it was well worth it and is a very large difference even without the interface changes.

Pokelover980 said:
*sigh* I hate to be the one that has to come in and burst everyone's bubble every time someone makes this argument, but the problem is not the locked bootloader. If the bootloader was unlocked, we'd be in the same exact position. Hashcode has stated this several times. We'd still be without hardware codecs, we'd still be having Bluetooth issues, we'd still have all the same issues because they're all a matter of hardware limitations or lack of documentation on certain parts of the proprietary hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
but anyway hashcode would be able to trial and error approach without deeming the device unusable (loading kernels, and modules and stuff)
it would certainly help to have an unlocked bootloader.
but without source of course it would be time consuming and without knowing when it would have success

bogdan_wrc said:
galaxy no way (too big and overrated), and HTCs are all the same: big ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This thing is a brick in my pocket compared to galaxy line and most htc phones, check out the quad core HTC One X w/beats audio or the galaxy note etc for "originality" but seems like all manufacturers are using a very similar forum factor. I agree the qwerty is nice to have but it doubles the size of the phone as well(unless maybe desire z) so you kind of have to choose.

Willis111 said:
This thing is a brick in my pocket compared to galaxy line and most htc phones, check out the quad core HTC One X w/beats audio or the galaxy note etc for "originality" but seems like all manufacturers are using a very similar forum factor. I agree the qwerty is nice to have but it doubles the size of the phone as well(unless maybe desire z) so you kind of have to choose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I came from one of those phones and dont mind the difference. In fact the keyboard is one of the best features ive had on any of my smartphones. And a 4" is perfect for me, coming from a 4.5" screen.