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I thought everyone would be interested. ZDNet is usually pretty Apple happy but this article praises the NC.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/the-first-great-android-tablet-nook-color/8570#comments
richdaley said:
I thought everyone would be interested. ZDNet is usually pretty Apple happy but this article praises the NC.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/the-first-great-android-tablet-nook-color/8570#comments
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Praises the Nook Color as a full blown tablet (once the App Store opens)... I wonder what the execs at Barnes and Noble are thinking right now? My guess: "Should we try to ride this tiger? Will it eat us in the end or will it help us devour the competition?" I suspect there's a lot of soul searching going on in Barnes and Nobleland.
i think BN knows what they have - i am sure they built the nook as such knowing they will make use of its full capabilities once they have content to offer - to me the nook color offers a conduit for selling not only books but rich media - audio, video, graphic novels etc - BN is aware Amazon is working on their own tablet and that amazon has a robust portfolio of content - so this is a pre-emptive move on their part before amazon launches their tablet - after all, BN also set the bar for pricing the piece ( a low cost high quality tablet) - Amazon will have to also compete on price not only on content
dsf3g said:
Praises the Nook Color as a full blown tablet (once the App Store opens)... I wonder what the execs at Barnes and Noble are thinking right now? My guess: "Should we try to ride this tiger? Will it eat us in the end or will it help us devour the competition?" I suspect there's a lot of soul searching going on in Barnes and Nobleland.
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A problem arises (and likely this is the reason for the apprehension by BN in releasing an "app store") if the NC becomes too successful as a tablet because it undermines its ability to be a successful loss-leader. Considering the CPU, screen, memory (flash and ram), battery and wireless controller I'd estimate the COGS comes in around $170 per unit, add in fabrication costs for the mainboard and housing and distribution/quality control and the NC is a low-margin or possibly negative-margin product. BN is counting on accessory and book sales to make a real profit on these devices, which is why they are probably not going to be too mod-friendly going forward.
This is really an inaccurate story. Stock NC already has email and a web browser on it. All they're really adding is the BN app store. There's no word yet on how many games/apps will be available. The update will bring Flash and the BN app store. It's not going to unlock it as a tablet the way rooting currently does.
mthe0ry said:
A problem arises (and likely this is the reason for the apprehension by BN in releasing an "app store") if the NC becomes too successful as a tablet because it undermines its ability to be a successful loss-leader. Considering the CPU, screen, memory (flash and ram), battery and wireless controller I'd estimate the COGS comes in around $170 per unit, add in fabrication costs for the mainboard and housing and distribution/quality control and the NC is a low-margin or possibly negative-margin product. BN is counting on accessory and book sales to make a real profit on these devices, which is why they are probably not going to be too mod-friendly going forward.
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If, what you are saying is true, they would still get accessory sales and the amount of book sales would not change. Those who buy eBooks would still buy them and those that don't...won't. I also highly doubt they sell these units at a loss. Small profit margin sure, loss...no. So any sales will still be good sales.
mthe0ry said:
A problem arises (and likely this is the reason for the apprehension by BN in releasing an "app store") if the NC becomes too successful as a tablet because it undermines its ability to be a successful loss-leader. Considering the CPU, screen, memory (flash and ram), battery and wireless controller I'd estimate the COGS comes in around $170 per unit, add in fabrication costs for the mainboard and housing and distribution/quality control and the NC is a low-margin or possibly negative-margin product. BN is counting on accessory and book sales to make a real profit on these devices, which is why they are probably not going to be too mod-friendly going forward.
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This is only a problem with rooted nook tablets, though. A stock Nook tablet that has to go through the Nook App store still produces sales revenue for Barnes and Noble.
I've heard they do sell them at a loss. They sell them at a loss with the idea that people who have them will buy ebooks which are basically pure profit. There is no cost in warehousing ebooks, no cost in printing them, minimal cost in changing them from print to digital and minimal cost in delivery. It's been rumored for a while that Amazon would be giving a free Kindle to all their Prime customers just because people who own e-readers buy more books than those who don't and they are better off financially selling their e-readers at a loss and making up for it with the nearly pure profit they get off ebooks.
dsf3g said:
This is only a problem with rooted nook tablets, though. A stock Nook tablet that has to go through the Nook App store still produces sales revenue for Barnes and Noble.
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That is what I am thinking too. If they make them attractive enough as a tablet for Joe Public, he will not be as tempted to root them which means they are running the B&N store exclusively. I think it is a good strategy especially since in my opinion the stock UI is very nice for what it does and with the addition of flash and other features, they have a winner. We nerds don't count because we are going to root it (but some of us are loyal to B&N anyway).
I don't know much about the publishing business but maybe there is also some advantage to just selling a bajillion of these things even at cost. Barnes and Noble cannot get by if they are just going to copy Kindle. They needed to make a bold move, which they did and their stock has been rebounding.
The overhead in ebooks is server space, bandwidth and the big one being copyright licensing to the publishers. It is definitely not pure profit.
cabbieBot said:
The overhead in ebooks is server space, bandwidth and the big one being copyright licensing to the publishers. It is definitely not pure profit.
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And all of that is next to nothing compared to the cost of print media. You're going to have licensing either way so that's a wash. Server space and bandwidth is negligible. An Ebook is nothing more than a few hundred kb. I would bet that a RAID array with just a TB or two of space could store every ebook on Amazon.
Edit: I'm at home on call so I'm bored so I did the math. Amazon claims to have 1.8 million pre-1923 books that are out of copyright plus 850,000 other books. Now, I rounded up allowing for growth and settled on a number of 3 million books. Even at 1 mb a book (which is really pretty big for an ebook), you would need ~2.9 TB of storage space for the entire Amazon library. Amazon can easily afford a series of NAS' holding that much space. Heck, you or I could buy a NAS of that size for a few hundred bucks.
Let's keep in mind a truism of production that the more you buy (make) the less you pay for what it's made of. Now unless the buyers at B&N are absolute morons (and I do doubt they are) the more NC's they order constructed the price to B&N should well drop! Thus increasing the margin of profit while keeping the current price point.
skeeterpro said:
Let's keep in mind a truism of production that the more you buy (make) the less you pay for what it's made of. Now unless the buyers at B&N are absolute morons (and I do doubt they are) the more NC's they order constructed the price to B&N should well drop! Thus increasing the margin of profit while keeping the current price point.
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I have a rooted NC would would love to see Froyo and Flash on the NC supported by BN. However, the arguments are basically the guys in the business "suits" vs the "geeks". Even if the NC are sold at a small profits, the "suits" on Wall St would not like that. The suits want profit margin.
My guess is that the mid-April update will be less than what this forum expects. I do hope I am wrong.
A. Nonymous said:
This is really an inaccurate story. Stock NC already has email and a web browser on it. All they're really adding is the BN app store. There's no word yet on how many games/apps will be available. The update will bring Flash and the BN app store. It's not going to unlock it as a tablet the way rooting currently does.
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Can someone point to a BN press release indicating Flash? Even the HSN website (which I don't trust) doesn't mention Flash. I am trying to find supporting evidence of Flash.
http://electronics.hsn.com/nook-col...ablet-with-wi-fi-and-ebooks_p-6392436_xp.aspx
I was told by a sales rep that there would be an update with flash support this year. Of course we all know a sales rep will say anything to make a sale. Personally I ignored about everything be said as I walked in knowing I was putting froyo on it.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App
Interesting article on the success of the NC:
http://www.electronista.com/articles/11/03/28/barnes.and.noble.said.shipped.3m.nook.colors/
Not sure if the #s they're stating fall into the "you can make any statistic true with the proper set of qualifications" category, but impressive nonetheless. This little half-price tablet is definitely getting some nice press of late!
yay nook color! the best ipad competitor!
(in sales)
The nook is a great tablet once nookie or CM7 is installed.
I'm wondering how many of those sales are unmodified nooks?
=X=
=X= said:
I'm wondering how many of those sales are unmodified nooks? =X=
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Perhaps the xda moderators can help. If you assume every viewer of the youtube video on rooting the NC (~100K) and every unique xda viewer of the BN Android Forum has rooted one, that would be the number of rooted nooks.
Assuming 500K unique views of the forum and the 100K from youtube, that's 600,000 units that have been rooted. So it's about 20%.
Can someone provide the number of XDA viewers?
Rooted stock is pretty good. For flash i just remote in to my htpc
Sent from my LogicPD Zoom2 using XDA App
fpga_guy said:
Perhaps the xda moderators can help. If you assume every viewer of the youtube video on rooting the NC (~100K) and every unique xda viewer of the BN Android Forum has rooted one, that would be the number of rooted nooks.
Assuming 500K unique views of the forum and the 100K from youtube, that's 600,000 units that have been rooted. So it's about 20%.
Can someone provide the number of XDA viewers?
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Hm so your estimating about 20% are rooted/mod.
If those numbers are anywhere near the ball park that is a pretty impressive number.
=X=
I interpreted that article as the nook accounts for half of the non-ipad tablets, not half of the tablets.
=X= said:
The nook is a great tablet once nookie or CM7 is installed.
I'm wondering how many of those sales are unmodified nooks?
=X=
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I moved back to stock just to enjoy endless battery life. CM7 is cool, but still needs some polish. CM guys rule anyway
Apple has probably moved 20-30 million iPads since the device was unveiled. Still, it is undeniably impressive that Barnes and Noble has sold half of the non-apple tablets in the U.S.
Just goes to show how much demand there is for a cheap, decent, 7" competitor to the iPad.
If B&N plays their cards right they can definitely leverage this to their advantage. The Nook Color could well be the one decision that saves teh company.
If B&N opens a robust store in April and loosens up on their earlier stated policy that the store will feature apps that "enhance the reading experience" then I predict the Nook Color will be a huge money maker for B&N (and they'll seriously cut down on ordinary users "rooting" their Nooks if they provide a decent in-house ecosystem for the device).
Wow. Impressive stuff. I've read several articles recently in mainstream publications (WSJ, NY Times I think) about the NC, so I'm sure that doesn't hurt.
Yeah the word is getting out. I have met two nurses I work with that own NCs and they saw my rooted stock and begged me to set theirs up like that. I pointed them here [XDA] of course but then they'll show all their friends/family and so on. Hopefully the decision makers at B&N realize what they have and don't mess it up with price increases or restrictions.
timmyjoe42 said:
I interpreted that article as the nook accounts for half of the non-ipad tablets, not half of the tablets.
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Thats is what it says the OP got it confused.
Meaning that All non apple tablets combine for 6 million sales and nook has 3 million.
The best I can tell from the internets is that Apple was somewhere at 15 million in 2010 and could sell 5-9 million ipads this quarter.
So yea nook has a very rough estimate of about 10% of the tablet market come the end of q1 2011.
Now if all 3 million of us could show our support and buy a few books, barnes and nobles should be okay.
dsf3g said:
If B&N opens a robust store in April and loosens up on their earlier stated policy that the store will feature apps that "enhance the reading experience" then I predict the Nook Color will be a huge money maker for B&N (and they'll seriously cut down on ordinary users "rooting" their Nooks if they provide a decent in-house ecosystem for the device).
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All they have to do is allow sideloaded apk's and get ride of the cellphone drain issues and I would probably not care about rooting it.
The 3 million number means nothing. We all know that B&N sells Nooks at near cost or even small loss. Their strategy was and still is to drive ebook sales and not every sold Nook translates into even single purchased book. So congratulate you can B&N all you want, but unless they will translate the market penetration into real profits based on the sold books, this would be known as Pyrrhic victory.
Masterface7 said:
Thats is what it says the OP got it confused.
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Actually that's what meant when I said, "you can make any statistic true with the proper set of qualifications". The thread title was taken directly from the article (that's why I added quote marks around it). I wasn't insinuating that the NC had sold 1:1 against the iPad in the US, just that they were stating some impressive numbers for it and that it's getting some great overall press across the board.
netscorer said:
The 3 million number means nothing. We all know that B&N sells Nooks at near cost or even small loss. Their strategy was and still is to drive ebook sales and not every sold Nook translates into even single purchased book. So congratulate you can B&N all you want, but unless they will translate the market penetration into real profits based on the sold books, this would be known as Pyrrhic victory.
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This is a really odd declaration.
Let's say that B&N sells their product at a loss. That still means that they have 3 million devices out there that are driving their brand name. They have an installed base of customers that they can drive applications towards (with their future app store), and they have the ebook store, and then they have all the accessories (which is where the real markup is anyways!).
So why the negativity? Selling three million units is a milestone no matter how you look at it.
Apple has probably moved 20-30 million iPads since the device was unveiled. Still, it is undeniably impressive that Barnes and Noble has sold half of the non-apple tablets in the U.S.
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I think the article did mean 50% of iPad sales. Apple sold about 15 millions of iPads in total worldwide from its launch up to March when the iPad 2 was launched. It sold about 7.5 million in FALL worldwide.
So, if B&N sold 3 millions of Nook Color in fall in US alone, that would be a great success for a tablet that wasn't even marketed as a tablet.
So why the negativity? Selling three million units is a milestone no matter how you look at it.
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On paper, frankly, that's quite a bit of financial loss if a lot of those buyers are only interested in using their Nook Color as a tablet. But if there are at least 30% of them being used as a dedicated reader, it should still be considered a success because B&N is on the way to become the next Border's before the Nook Color came out. Now, they are back in the game. Whether it will beat the Kindle in the long run remains to be seen, but at least it now has a bigger user base to compete.
On top of that, you are right that even if many Nook Color users are using it as a tablet, it's still a form of marketing. In fact, it's probably cheaper than other forms of marketing because:
1) The Nook Color users still have to pay B&N $249. Their loss won't be too significant
2) Everytime the users look at their Nook Color, it reminds them of B&N. Consider the average lifespan of the device is 1 year, that's 365 days of marketing for a small price to pay
So, if B&N really did sell 3 millions of Nook Color, it would be hard not to call it a success.
and that for tablets the nook color is in second place in sales they get there name out there more with "success story" and "the cheap tab you don't know of", and "the e-reader that can" articles. its win iced in win sauce with a side of kickass
NewZJ said:
its win iced in win sauce with a side of kickass
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I lol'ed
NewZJ said:
and that for tablets the nook color is in second place in sales they get there name out there more with "success story" and "the cheap tab you don't know of", and "the e-reader that can" articles. its win iced in win sauce with a side of kickass
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Fuk yeah. I use it as just an ereader, hacked my phones to bits. All the people at work who read are interested in it and now they want one. Kinda cool at the coffee shops I'm seeing more nooks and less glowing apples. I want this thing to succeed cause I like b&n and don't want them to fall like borders did. They are really pushing the update next month in the sales pitch right now. I hope it is a good one.
To Whom It May Concern,
As an Android enthusiast and owner of a Nook Color, I'd like to let you know that your entirely open and permissive attitude towards the modding community has made me VERY inclined to purchase content from you whenever possible. I've already bought three e-books from you and plan to buy more from you and ONLY you whenever I feel like purchasing content. This approach IS making you money. I promise.
Sincerely,
a now-devoted B&N customer
Somehow I do not think they intended the Nook to be as open as it is.
painter_ said:
Somehow I do not think they intended the Nook to be as open as it is.
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Maybe, but they haven't done anything to change it in any of their updates, either.
Let's hope that attitude remains the same when the official 2.2 update comes out. I'm with you though, I love this thing! Outside of Netflix, there's nothing the iPad has that I want and I cannot wait for Google to release their 3+ AOSP so we can make these Nooks even better!
You'd be surprised at what B&N suspected. I mean why else pack this much punch into an ereader with the Android OS backing it? They knew what they were doing. If they didn't, then I feel sorry for them...Im happy it got past them, but c'mon, the Android community has blown up since late 2009, Rooting became 100% legal (even if it voids the warrenty) and they even made it easy by allowing the SD card to boot first! They either planned it or it was horribly designed.
It's just guesswork, but I think B&N made it just difficult enough that casual users wouldn't be likely to screw up their NC but easy enough that the android community would be able to- and generate a huge amount of buzz about the Nook Color.
If it was JUST an e-reader as intended, half the articles you see online would not exist; maybe even fewer.
Pretty good advertising if you ask me...
rogerdugans said:
It's just guesswork, but I think B&N made it just difficult enough that casual users wouldn't be likely to screw up their NC but easy enough that the android community would be able to- and generate a huge amount of buzz about the Nook Color.
If it was JUST an e-reader as intended, half the articles you see online would not exist; maybe even fewer.
Pretty good advertising if you ask me...
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There's no such thing as bad press.
The flip side to having little to no device security is easy maintenance. I'd be surprised if BN stores didn't have a full reinstall/recover microsd image. It would be so easy to do.
rogerdugans said:
It's just guesswork, but I think B&N made it just difficult enough that casual users wouldn't be likely to screw up their NC but easy enough that the android community would be able to- and generate a huge amount of buzz about the Nook Color.
If it was JUST an e-reader as intended, half the articles you see online would not exist; maybe even fewer.
Pretty good advertising if you ask me...
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I also think that at LEAST 1/3rd (if not way, way more than that) of the people who bought it did so to make it into a tablet (or the very least to root it)
I am buying books on it. I am recommending friends buy it, and let them know they only get help if they bought it from Barnes and Noble.
I want B&N to get all the revenue from this device, and won't touch a Best Buy unit.
And yes, I bought it once I knew it was rootable and a great platform to learn Android hardware with.
Even as an Amazon Prime member/Kindle owner, I have been purchasing ebooks from B &N to show support for this device. I had planned on buying a Xoom this summer, but this device has exceeded my expectations.
They really need to up their advertising on this device.
roustabout said:
I am buying books on it. I am recommending friends buy it, and let them know they only get help if they bought it from Barnes and Noble.
I want B&N to get all the revenue from this device, and won't touch a Best Buy unit.
And yes, I bought it once I knew it was rootable and a great platform to learn Android hardware with.
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"Ditto" .... +1
JLCollier2005 said:
You'd be surprised at what B&N suspected. I mean why else pack this much punch into an ereader with the Android OS backing it?
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This is one of my biggest questions about the NC. I strongly suspect that development of the device pre-dates Barnes and Noble's interest in it, though I have no way of knowing that for sure.
I bought my Nook and one for my nephew as soon as they rooted it with no intention of using it as an e-reader. I had never been to a B&N and bought all of my books from Amazon or Borders. Since I bought the Nook I ordered all of my school books from B&N and have also bought a few e-books and audio books from them. The Nook provided exposure to B&N that they would not of had in my case.
Just my 2 cents on how open b&n is about rooting the nc. I went into a bn store to get a cover and was presented a book by an employee on how to root and make it a full fledged tablet.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
ruiza997 said:
Just my 2 cents on how open b&n is about rooting the nc. I went into a bn store to get a cover and was presented a book by an employee on how to root and make it a full fledged tablet.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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The reps are real cool about rooting it and know what they're talking about. Then you get the guy I got the other day who knew nothing about the nook period. They either know all or are dumb as hell.
As an employee of BN, specifically a digital lead, with a rooted nook color running CM7, I do my best to let management know how important it is for me to be able to support the modding community. I root devices in-store, fix rooted devices, and make sure returns and warranty problems go off without a hitch even for modded machines. I never feel as though I am going against the grain and I think we're being very smart about all of this so far.
I guess I'm in the minority here. I bought the Nook because I'm too cheap for the iPad. I'm also too cheap to pay B&N's prices for their books and I am always on the lookout for free ebooks. Paying $7.00 and more on a regular basis for books seems like waste.
starkruzr said:
To Whom It May Concern,
As an Android enthusiast and owner of a Nook Color, I'd like to let you know that your entirely open and permissive attitude towards the modding community has made me VERY inclined to purchase content from you whenever possible. I've already bought three e-books from you and plan to buy more from you and ONLY you whenever I feel like purchasing content. This approach IS making you money. I promise.
Sincerely,
a now-devoted B&N customer
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Dear Barnes & Noble;
I bought the Nook Color in mid-December simply because it could be rooted. Since that time, I have purchased a cover, screen protectors, and extra charger and 58 e-books. The NC is a great product, and your employees that I've dealt with support it enthusiastically, even though it's rooted. This results in a happy, loyal customer base and helps ensure repeat business. Kudos to you.
I will sign the letter too!
I had no great love for Barnes & Noble before this (their pricing took a steep upward spiral many years ago; long ago they were the only good discounter, but that's long gone and I have little use for lattes and biscotti in a bookstore). But now I have a very soft spot for them and we visit the store more frequently to buy things as inexpensive as paper magazines and toys and as expensive as, well, the Nook.
Let's hope they continue with the openness and don't make fools of us by root-blocking attempts with the 2.2 release.
For what it's worth every B&N clerk I've asked about the Nook has "just happened to mention" that it's rootable -- I almost think it's part of their official sales pitch.
Given that B&N set up store displays for the Nook Color that included a book that told you how to root the Nook ... I'd guess they were pretty open to the idea that it would be ... open. Heck, I've had 2 long conversations with employees in B&N stores telling them about how to get more up to date info here on XDA. I can't read the minds of the execs at the top that product managed Nook Color, but everything from the lower levels says they're perfectly happy with it.
Consider me /signed as well
Barnes & Noble Plans New E-Book Reader... link below....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703849204576303692366033096.html
Here's the full article from WSJ MAY 4, 2011, 7:37 P.M. ET
By MAXWELL MURPHY
Barnes & Noble Inc. will unveil a new electronic book reader later this month, the bookseller told analysts and investors on Wednesday, according to a federal filing released after the close of trading.
The bookseller's stock had jumped 14.3% on Wednesday to $12.03. A Barnes & Noble spokeswoman declined to comment beyond the 8-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which contained one sentence of text to comply with disclosure rules, except to confirm the meeting took place in New York City. She declined to say when during the day the meeting took place, or when specifically executives mentioned the forthcoming launch.
The filing said simply that the company, in the meeting, "indicated it expects to make an announcement on May 24, 2011, regarding the launch of a new eReader device."
One possibility is Barnes & Noble will release a more powerful combination tablet and e-reader, perhaps running a more advanced software like Google Inc.'s Honeycomb software. Honeycomb is a version of the Android operating system Google created specifically for tablets.
Last month, Barnes & Noble said it is upgrading the software of its popular Nook Color e-reader, giving the device a newer version of Android. The Nook Color, which has a touch screen, will now allow users to download free and paid applications, like the popular game Angry Birds, provide greater email functionality and allow users to play Flash videos, among other features.
The software upgrade effectively turned the Nook Color into a low-cost tablet which, at $249 apiece, is hundreds of dollars less than competitors like Apple Inc.'s iPad 2, Motorola Mobility Holdings Inc.'s and the Research In Motion Ltd. PlayBook. The more expensive tablets do have several advantages over the Nook Color, like cameras, a much wider selection of apps than Nook Color currently has, and more powerful processors.
Some eager and tech-savvy Nook Color owners had figured out a software "jailbreak" to make the tablet switch without any help from the company, but voided their warranties by doing so.
Barnes & Noble recently suspended its dividend to focus on growth of its digital business and the Nook platform. Nook tablets now command about a quarter of the e-book reader market, Barnes & Noble says, trailing only Amazon.com Inc.'s Kindle, which analysts contend accounts for most of the remaining three quarters of the rapidly growing market.
Write to Maxwell Murphy at [email protected]
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I'm betting on a NC 10" to compete against the Kindle DX and all of the other 10" tabs out there. Remember, you heard it here first folks! Now if they can only keep the cost down to $350, I might be buying one too.
colorado_al said:
Here's the full article from WSJ MAY 4, 2011, 7:37 P.M. ET
I'm betting on a NC 10" to compete against the Kindle DX and all of the other 10" tabs out there. Remember, you heard it here first folks! Now if they can only keep the cost down to $350, I might be buying one too.
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for 350 bucks id rather spend another 50 and get a transformer
luciferii said:
for 350 bucks id rather spend another 50 and get a transformer
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The $350-450 range is destined to become ultra competitive, that's for sure.
luciferii said:
for 350 bucks id rather spend another 50 and get a transformer
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No doubt
Sent from my NookColor using XDA Premium App
I guess that's why there are hints of other connectivity in the kernel.
I was reading a post in the general section of xda, about the best 5 phones, it referenced an article, and I saw an article about the amazon app, and will it succeed..(I must have ADD)
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Will...the-Amazon-tablet-before-its-launched_id20870 Will-developer-anger-at-the-Amazon-Appstore-kill-the-Amazon-tablet-before-its-launched
I wasn't really liking how amazon seems to be doing things, but look at this snippet specifically and tell me what you think..
"My feeling is that the Amazon tablet will be an extension of the Kindle. At heart, it will be an e-reader, but an e-reader with benefits. Amazon has learned from the Nook Color. Consumers want a full screen e-reader with apps and extra features, but Amazon doesn't want to foster the rooting community that has sprung up around the Nook Color. Amazon, like Apple, wants to control the experience, and this means giving consumers what they want, but it also means likely alienating the more tech savvy crowd. However, given that the Amazon tablet will be based on Android 2.x, the tech savvy crowd was already most likely alienated."
Why WOULDN'T they want a community of people spreading the word about how awesome the device is? Look at the kindle.. an overpriced device made of cheap parts, something that could have done more(mind you I own one).. but it was pretty good at the limited things it did.
Why upgrade to something that can REALLY do something?
Anyways, here is my comment/rant I am posting, but I am curious what the community they are talking about thinks. Would you buy their device if they purposely don't want us SPECIFICALLY to be able to enjoy it for what it COULD do?
My comment:
This one phrase does it for me, "Amazon, like Apple, wants to control the experience, and this means giving consumers what they want, but it also means likely alienating the more tech savvy crowd."
I am one of those people that bought a nook color, and has it doing every awesome thing that it has the hardware to do, and doing more than you'd ever think you could have it do.
That said: The problem with apple and anyone who uses them as a model.. they want to control what the device can do, so they can sell you another device in the near future. Sure, you had to jailbreak the iphone, but the original phone that couldn't record video COULD in fact record video. The iphone 3g COULD record video, but the 3gs can record hi-def, the only qualifying selling point(besides harddrive) of the device. Oh wait, a jailbroken 3g can record in the SAME QUALITY. At my old job working at a university I had to jailbreak iPads to do video out because the apple representatives said it couldn't.. they were surprised when I showed them what it can do in the classroom as soon as I got around their limitations. I am quite sure the iPhone 4 and the iPad 2 are capable of many things they DON'T do, but CAN do.. and that they will sell you a new device soon that will.(Lets fill more landfills for no reason) Hell, I had ios4.1 on an original iphone, something they said the iphone 3g couldn't do.(Now I am ranting I think)
Each release of newer device from apple was NOT an improvement in a big way, but a controlled release of a single or few features they wanted you to be able to do. Intentional limitations purely in software. It is one of the BIG reasons why I stopped buying iPhones.. to make it do everything it COULD do, I had to defy what the manufacturer didn't want it to be able to do.
If amazon does this, I don't see this as being a success.. it is the same idea as someone micromanaging. Sure, it CAN be comforting to have someone come in and tell you every little detail of what to do so you don't have to think -- unless you don't have a problem with THINKING.(This is the concept that I think constantly spawns a sheep argument)
Android, simply put, is open source. Even if a manufacturer doesn't want the phones software altered, the NATURE of the software is that it CAN be altered. You can buy an android phone/tablet, and KNOW that if the hardware can do it, and there is a community around the device, the software will allow it. This is how I stream movies, play games(meant for the tegra only devices), have a newer operating system than most android phones, and so much more.. all for 250 dollars. I didn't want a camera on a tablet. I don't want another data plan. Just something a little more comfortable.
Anyways, successful devices are the ones that can accomodate the less tech savvy in ease of use, WITHOUT stepping on the toes of those who know how to make it do more. Why should they? The new samsung galaxy s 2 has no bootloader, a great thing for those of us who want to push the limits of the beautiful hardware rather than have a device that just sounds better.. and a device like that will be embraced by any who want it because no one is trying to keep them away-- and why would they anyways?(Sheep again)
I really don't know how this could be said unless they really think all customers truly are sheep:"Amazon, like Apple, wants to control the experience, and this means giving consumers what they want.." If amazon is trying to become apple part 2, I really am done with them.
My first reaction to your post was confusion. You really buried the lead there
*IF* I read you correctly (and the article), you are asking why Amazon would want to make it impossible (or at least very difficult) for developers and enthusiasts to extend the capabilities of the mythical Amazon Tablet.
The article refers to lessons learned from the Nook Color, but I'm not sure Amazon has learned the same thing from the NC that modding enthusiasts have. We appreciate how fundamentally powerful and inexpensive the NC is. Amazon (as well as Barnes & Noble) see a high end ereader as expanding the reach of their core business... selling books.
I think the fallacy of the article cited is that they think Amazon is trying to emulate Apple. I don't think they are. They are trying to emulate Gillette and Schick. Sell the razor cheap and then make your money on the blades. Or the updated model of printers and ink. Same thing.
It is in Amazon's best interest to limit the scope of activities and applications on their tablet for a couple of reasons. They don't want the Nook app running on their tablet and they don't want to have to support a whole gamut of problems that will come with pushing the hardware to its limit.
They do on the other hand want to give the majority of their customers what they want. The Ipad and the Honeycomb tablets hitting the market are setting the bar higher and higher, so they have to respond with enough features to stay competitive.
For a mass marketer (like Apple, B&N, and Amazon) that means being selective and slow. Being an early adopter can be painful.. both for users and vendors. They are just trying to maximize their profits and this is the best strategy for that.
Honestly, I don't see Amazon really locking it down that much unless they want to cover their rear end on trying to make it hard as can be getting their DRMed ebooks off the device.
BN makes money on each NC sold (AFAIK) so even if somebody (like me) buys one just to have a tablet, they still make money off of it. Whether somebody uses it as is or converts it to a CM7 tablet is really of no consequence to them. If anything, they are more than likely to buy into the BN ecosystem I think. You've already bought a tablet so why not buy their dedicated ereader if you find that reading on the NC is a little worse than you imagined.
I mean, I own both a Nook (1st ed.) and a NC. I appreciate their openness in regards to their products (not only being able to load CM7 but also their openness in respects to formats and everything else with their eink readers) and will continue to support them over Amazon or the like, even though I really like Amazon.
I think Amazon is trying to take a little from both Apple and B&N. B&N has looked the other way while the development community opened up and enhanced the Nook Color because I think they were simply interested getting something out there that would set them apart from the Kindle and sell books. Yes, they have an app store but I do not think that was a priority other than to say they have one. Amazon sells far more than books so they want to make money in the app store as well. On top of that, Apple pretty much kicked them out of the app store unless they paid the toll. Not having a tablet to make up for that sent them rushing to copy B&N. B&N got it right the first time and I don't think they are worried that people are going to root the device and start using the Kindle app. I have both but I have yet to buy a single Kindle book. Since they are both priced about the same, why would I need to? I just bought my wife a NC so now we will share books. And, she may be perfectly happy if I leave it stock.
One final comment: I have not now nor will I ever buy an Apple product primarily because I do not like being controlled and locked out of my own device.
You're ranting about Amazon this, Amazon that, but you're referring to an article which is about Amazon. It's not from Amazon.
So will Amazon try to limit the openness of its tablet? Maybe. Has Amazon said anything to this nature? Dunno, but it's not in this article. This is all third party speculation.
khaytsus said:
You're ranting about Amazon this, Amazon that, but you're referring to an article which is about Amazon. It's not from Amazon.
So will Amazon try to limit the openness of its tablet? Maybe. Has Amazon said anything to this nature? Dunno, but it's not in this article. This is all third party speculation.
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Actually, I was ranting about Apple.
khaytsus said:
You're ranting about Amazon this, Amazon that, but you're referring to an article which is about Amazon. It's not from Amazon.
So will Amazon try to limit the openness of its tablet? Maybe. Has Amazon said anything to this nature? Dunno, but it's not in this article. This is all third party speculation.
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Well, the article is about the Amazon appstore problems and only incidentally about the tablet. Any discussion of the tablet has to be speculation until the product actually is released.
The appstore seems to be actively hostile to developers and just there to get people onto the other Amazon pages.
There is speculation that it's there to support the tablet in a closed ecosystem, but I think it's just a side benefit (to Amazon).
I guess the real question isn't is this sensible business practice so much as would you support companies that literally go out of their way to make the things that we do like we have with our nook colors.. Some of that article isn't speculation, they have refused googles market application, and there are plenty of things that can be surmised from that that isn't speculation.
Companies used to be happy selling widgets, but now it has become popular for companies to sell widgets that COULD do more, but they limit what it can do so they can sell more widgets. It hurts progress of all kinds because it is the intentional slowing down of progress, just to profit more. If they want to sell you a new product, they should make a product that is ACTUALLY better than the previous ones.
Silentbtdeadly said:
If they want to sell you a new product, they should make a product that is ACTUALLY better than the previous ones.
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The product Amazon would be selling with the tablet wouldn't be the tablet itself.
Why would Amazon want to make a generic do all tablet? How does that fit into their business model? How would they compete with the well established "generic" tablet makers?
Amazon is a web store, they want to get people into their store. Otherwise, Amazon would have no reason or no business making a tablet in the first place.
Barns and Noble didn't make the Nook because they wanted to make an Android tablet or because they wanted to make an e-reader, they made the Nook so people would buy books from them.
joenathane said:
The product Amazon would be selling with the tablet wouldn't be the tablet itself.
Why would Amazon want to make a generic do all tablet? How does that fit into their business model? How would they compete with the well established "generic" tablet makers?
Amazon is a web store, they want to get people into their store. Otherwise, Amazon would have no reason or no business making a tablet in the first place.
Barns and Noble didn't make the Nook because they wanted to make an Android tablet or because they wanted to make an e-reader, they made the Nook so people would buy books from them.
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Yea well, then they shouldn't have their webstore on those generic tablets, because why would someone buy their less-than-tablet if other tablets that probably don't cost much more can do it just as well, or better because there are so many apps those OTHER tablets can do.
I guess the way you put it, they should get out of the electronics business all together if they can't compete with what other devices do. Their best bet would be to put out a device that people want because it is BETTER than other devices, but make sure their software is on every device.. I mean I doubt it will come out at a semi-affordable price like the nook.
Any way I look at it, and everything I heard, I still think it is bad and sad ways of trying to make money.. because they are doing the minimum they can in every scenario to deserve money.
What companies like B&N and Amazon are trying to do is completely different than what companies like Motorola and Samsung are trying to do. They have completely different aims in their product goals. One side is trying to lock you in to their market and the other is trying to make a general purpose functional device.
Although I do have a feeling that I am wasting my time here...
joenathane said:
What companies like B&N and Amazon are trying to do is completely different than what companies like Motorola and Samsung are trying to do. They have completely different aims in their product goals. One side is trying to lock you in to their market and the other is trying to make a general purpose functional device.
Although I do have a feeling that I am wasting my time here...
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Unless you can explain what makes them think they can market devices like that AND be able to compete against devices that can do all of that and more.. that device would have to be incredibly cheap for someone to buy it, plain and simple. I will say, if the nook color could only read books, I would have regretted buying it, because for a little more I could have gotten a device that can do the same things and much more.
I don't see how they could compete against the competitors if they go about it that way, I don't think it is possible. "Their" market would have to have far far more to offer than all of the things already out. Our society is all about putting more functionality into one device, creating universal devices, not specialized ones.
Silentbtdeadly said:
Unless you can explain what makes them think they can market devices like that AND be able to compete against devices that can do all of that and more.. that device would have to be incredibly cheap for someone to buy it, plain and simple. I will say, if the nook color could only read books, I would have regretted buying it, because for a little more I could have gotten a device that can do the same things and much more.
I don't see how they could compete against the competitors if they go about it that way, I don't think it is possible. "Their" market would have to have far far more to offer than all of the things already out. Our society is all about putting more functionality into one device, creating universal devices, not specialized ones.
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I think you are missing Joe's point. B&N already had a Nook reader, but it was barely holding it's own against the Kindle reader. B&N then decided to come out with a better, color reader that could handle magazines and other color periodicals, something that the Kindle cannot do. On top of that they added basic tablet features such as email and web browsing as well as an app market to further distinguish it from the Kindle. It was not intended to be an iPad killer. However, through the hard work of the development community it has morphed into just about a full blown tablet, minus the mic and camera. At the time a new Nook Color was $250 while an iPad was twice as much as were most other tablets. The Nook Color was created to sell more books, magazines, newspaper subscriptions and some apps directly from B&N. Thankfully, B&N looked the other way when people started to root them. I guess they realized that once they got the NC into our hands, we would still probably use the Android Nook app and continue to buy books from them anyway. Since books are generally the same price as as Kindle books, I have and will continue to buy mine from B&N. I even got my wife one in a one day sale last week for $180 so we can share the books. She may decide to leave it stock since ti meets her needs already.
cincibluer6 said:
BN makes money on each NC sold (AFAIK) so even if somebody (like me) buys one just to have a tablet, they still make money off of it.
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Can you back that up with a source? I've been wondering about this for a long time, since I bought my NC only to use it as a tablet. Living in Germany, I couldn't buy B&N books even if I wanted to and that fact always bugged me a bit, since the NC obviously is so cheap because they want you to buy books.
I don't want to be ripping off a company that makes such awesome devices
Actually, there has been much debate over B&n making any real profit on the device.
Looking the main components:
1024x600 7" IPS Panel (not cheap)
TI Omap 3621 (eBook version of the 3630, featured in the Droid X)
512MB ram
8GB memory
4400mAh battery
As it is, the "cheap" tablets that are close in price, are not close in specs. Devices that ARE close in specs, are commonly more expensive.
At this point, i suspect they may be making a bit of money, but not much; and several months ago, i have no doubt that the nook was costing them, and that they really did rely on book sales (basically free money) to offset the losses.
Divine_Madcat said:
Actually, there has been much debate over B&n making any real profit on the device.
Looking the main components:
1024x600 7" IPS Panel (not cheap)
TI Omap 3621 (eBook version of the 3630, featured in the Droid X)
512MB ram
8GB memory
4400mAh battery
As it is, the "cheap" tablets that are close in price, are not close in specs. Devices that ARE close in specs, are commonly more expensive.
At this point, i suspect they may be making a bit of money, but not much; and several months ago, i have no doubt that the nook was costing them, and that they really did rely on book sales (basically free money) to offset the losses.
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I agree, it's most commonly estimated that the Bill of Materials for the Nook is around $200. Add in all the other overhead involved in marketing, supporting and shipping a product like this and you come to see that their profit margins are razor thin. Compare that to the iPad's BOM of $260 and you come to see that tablets like the iPad and the Nook are playing at very different games...