This is gonna be a book post, so grab a drink, sit down & READ THE WHOLE THING!
Okay, I was a happily retired moderator with little time for babysitting & hand holding, but after nearly two decades of being involved with mobile development from Palm to the device & OS that really started this (Blue Angel PPC2002/PPC2003/PPC2003SE) I will be damned if I am going to let ANYONE ruin the major development repository for what is arguably the best device HTC has made to date. Yes, it was also the worst marketed & whomever handled the marketing plan for the Holiday Series should be selling used cars (Not that there's anything wrong with that, they were just obviously out of their league with the Vivid), however I digress.
I cook roms, I tweak things & talk & have help fix issues for more chef's than I can count. I don't do public releases & I stopped doing custom builds for Senior Members a long time ago. I am here purely for the advancement of mobile development, to learn & to help those that truly take the time to learn.
First things first, this is a development thread. If you are not a developer (I'm not, not really) you must realize that we are working with Alpha's, Beta's & sometime code & data from completely different device manufacturers. This means that there is a certain amount of inherent risk envolved, ALWAYS. This is evidenced & acknowledged by every single person that DECIDED to ignore the warnings issued by HTC as well as the developers here & agreed to the terms when they unlocked their device. "Unlocking your device is DANGEROUS & may VOID your warranty."
I own several devices, as do the former Dev's of this sub-forum. The reason we all are, or were, here is because we all agreed that despite HTC's fumble with the device, it is a fresh design from the rubberized slabs & plastic toys we've seen lately & the device is truly a powerhouse when configured correctly. None of us have to develop, not for the public, and for those that do, I can tell you it's not for the money nor the fame. If it was for fame the folks that left wouldn't be working from blog space & small sites. Sure, there are always glory hounds, but the Developers in Vivid are about the pursuit of perfection, nothing more. Roms are not made by a single person, many have a hand in adding or modifying portions of a rom. This means that when you slam or disrespect a chef or rom, you are telling six or more people that you do not appreciate their work. There will always be difference of opinion, but when that occurs, I expect you to handle it like a man (or woman) & use the Personal Message system this site offers. Even in those cases, I demand no less than respect & civility when communicating & you all agreed to that when you registered here at XDA. Failure to do so CAN & WILL BE GROUNDS FOR A BAN OF APPROPRIATE LENGTH.
Now, I am not a new Mod & XDA has seen fit to call me back to active duty as a Global Moderator, not a forum moderator, & that alone should tell you how frelled the vivid section has become. I am not here to power trip, don't want to ban anyone & hate cleaning useless posts from threads. But I have agreed to do just that until we can all become a happy family
I am working on getting all the dev's back here that left as well as getting some support from some of the more populated forum threads. This will be more & more important as fragmentation goes away & Android becomes more unified. ICS is a step in that direction, Android 5.0 will almost be there completely.
You may not know it yet, but HTC knows they built a great device in the Holiday line & we have already seen ICS release roms for the US AT&T variant. They went & integrated beats & discussion is taking place about a possible Sense 4.0 version for the Holiday. Not a kanged version, but a true to goodness OEM complete with source code & all. While most other devices are still working with leaked versions & test betas, we have an honest to goodness Release version of ICS with some already even getting OTA updates as well. The Vivid is one of a handful of devices that can more than adequately run the same software versions as the newly unveiled One Series, only the Vivid doesn't look like a Sensation mated with a Flyer. I know most of the developers that left, some more than others & I am working on bringing them back to the XDA table. You see, when a developer leaves we get fragmentation. We also usually lose a lot of work from other rom team members, themers, coders, tweakers, hackers, kernel builders, etc...
It would be rather simple for a good Sensation developer to get us a great recovery, provide us with pointers on things they have found with getting ICS to run smoothly as they have been working with api 15 for longer than most Vivid dev's. Unfortunately, they see the Vivid forum as the red headed bastard stepchild of XDA & right now we are. Winter is over & never before have I seen so many developers fky away like a flock heading back north. They all left or are on the fence about leaving. That says something. It's not one high maintenance chef whining & leaving. It is a whole group of Dev's & the supporting members from all over the world leaving. That tells me something is broken, seriously broken & that you as Vivid forum participants have failed the developers & the community. We are broken & need to fix ourselves & learn to police ourselves to become whole again. Do you like stock roms? are you 100% satisfied with whomevers rom you are using? I hope the answer is yes, because unless we pull together & make changes you are gonna be stuck with what you have. Sure, more cooks will emerge. But every rom team member is exceptional at certain things & without them future roms will be lacking in certain areas.
At any rate I digress. Many of you know me. I am honest & fair. I am here, & XDA agreed, as a Hail Mary, to properly support the forum & to try a save the Vivid section from failing. The number one rule here from now on is: Be courteous, respectful & honorable; and if you can't do that....I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance & furious anger those who would attempt to poison our developers & destroy my forum.
THIS IS YOUR WARNING: I am an American, so Baseball is my countries pastime, right? Just like baseball I am immediately instituting a three strikes policy. Each strike will incur penalty on a progressive scale ending with me petitioning to permanently ban you if needed. And be advise that if you post useless or negative to development threads, expect them to be deleted. Just be smart & always take a minute to think things thru before posting & doing irreparable damage. Words are like currency, you can always save them & they'll be there later if needed, but let them burn a hole in your pocket & spend them to soon...You're broke & there's no getting them back.
Now I am stickying this thread & will be leaving it open for a short while. I am doing this to give you a chance to kindly ask the dev's that left to come back & where appropriate make amends or apologize for any personal attacks that were made publicly. If you wrote it where everyone could read it, you should have the fortitude to make it right publicly. If not, then I again refer you to the Personal Message utility provided to you by XDA.
Nicely written.
+1 on bringing back the Devs
Please come back This forum wouldn't be anywhere near as inventive and informative if we didn't have our devs.
Excellent post as well
Im glad to see you stepping in and trying to help the other mods get a handle on things.
I love our phone just like most of the other users here, and have been dissapointed with the state of our forum for the last few weeks. I know the dev who left are still interested in our device as they took their roms elsewhere. Maybe with these current event they will consider coming back. We can only hope, XDA has been a great repository of roms and the help we might need with them. Lets not fragment our resources anymore then it already is.
All I can say is WOW that was greatly written!!
You know what really sucks I have been a member for what i consider to be a long time, I have flashed 1000s of rom's on I don't how many phones and read probably millions of posts! This site is my addiction I read it every day. And over the last couple of months it has just gotten horrible, ridiculous and childish on both sides the noobs and the Dev's! Now DONT GET ME WRONG!! I love and admire everyone who develops, cooks and contributes to the forum. I admit I could never deal with all crap that some noobs and some not so noobs! It is not only this forum it seems to be wide spread even down to the scamming going on at the market place!!! It has honestly made me not want to come to XDA which really sucks.I have all ways looked at XDA as one of the best community's/families i have ever worked with. Just think about how many country's, languages,class,s of life white collar,blue collar and every where in between!!! Just like any family/community you have problems and you find way's to work through the hard times and it makes you stronger so I just plead to all the Developers to try to work whit us. Even if you just post your work and then just have a question and answer sec. and let the community answer the questions. Im just saying there has to be a solution!!
Okay I'm done Rambling!! Thank You to the Mods to for trying to hold it all together!! OK now i'm done!
Wow, it's good to hear something positive around here. You might this sections savoir.
WOW! Great post, thank you very much!
I think we ALL want to run the latest and greatest Android version on the best possible ROM ever on our beloved Holiday. Most are anxious about it and, at the same time, do not want to brick their expensive phones. This being said, this shouldn't be a motivation for ANYONE to bash on the developers.
Like a lot of people, I bought my HTC Raider knowing that, at that time, the development wasn't too far. I was glad to see dev's coming in the Raider/Vivid/Holiday/Velocity family. I was friggin' happy when I saw the first ROM available for my phone! I also flashed at my own risk, knowing I was maybe scarifying my $600 CAD phone.
I, as a relatively new comer, learned from it: do not ask questions that you can easily find answers for by searching the forum. While this is not the (only) reason why so many devs have left, I would like to apologize for my few n00b questions that I may have asked previously. I learned from it and will now properly search before asking.
PLEASE, let's put these few problems aside and let's be a big nice community once again!
I hope we'll see devs back here once again!
This is my first HTC since buying my HTC Dream back in the infancy of android and I was saddened to see how things have turned on this board.
For every Samsung and LG device I have owned there has always been a thriving community of people who have an understanding and work together. However none have ever had the same feeling when I owned an HTC and was part of the community that made the Dream(G1) what it is, an icon. I so wish to be apart of something like that again with this, arguably the best HTC device, as GSLEON3 put it and would love to make it the next big thing.
I understand if the Devs don't come back but I certainly hope they do. There is a lot of work for us to get done and we really need all the amazing talented individuals we can get.
I agree and its getting old visting 20 sites
Xda should be a place where devs can release there work and the community can help each other out not bark at the devs and chase them out, a place where everyone can contribute in one way or another
come at me bro said:
I agree and its getting old visting 20 sites
Xda should be a place where devs can release there work and the community can help each other out not bark at the devs and chase them out, a place where everyone can contribute in one way or another
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I think That that should become our mission statement "a place where everyone can AND SHOULD contribute in one way or another"
This is nice,
well said GSLEON3, i'm happy to see this.
i've been around xda for a while and had my share of phones and not a single one wasn't modified in a way shape or form from xda so when i picked up a vivid 2 weeks ago, it was my first choice but i'm stuck with at&t for now and besides the inspire 4g it's the only other decent phone that fits my needs and wants and regardless of how heavy it is, it's worth it. I was so disappointed and sad, mainly so sad when i saw what was happening, and by tuesday night i was like this isn't gona work for me, i'm gona be stuck with the stock gb rom or stock ics which i can't stand, i just wanted a fully functioning runnymed port but i was disappointed that the bootloader can only be unlocked through htcdev which then voids my warranty while i didn't have that issue with all the previous phones so i never hesitated to root, flash recovery and the roms of my choice. titanium and nandroid backups were like my best non human friends lol. when all this started happening and pretty much everyone was gone, i was like this isn't gona work, saw a report in the portal for a sense port to the nexus s one for ics and one for gb that had almost everything working, so i figured let me see how much i can buy a nexus s for and found a really good deal so i bought it the next day and put my vivid up for sale, i havent sold it yet, and i've been coming around to see if anything has changed, and now that it has i might reconsider and keep it, sell the nexus s and hopefully things get rolling again and we can all have the vivid the way we want. so sorry for making this even longer than i anticipated but hopefully the devs will see this and do come back, and that we do get help from other devs and new ones, i mean having phones like the hd2, mytouch 4g inspire 4g, sensation, the forums on those are filled, even the nexus s i can't keep or find a rom that i like, there r just so many options left and right so i hope that the vivid will become like that soon and yeah i dunno call me crazy or something but like i said earlier, i would be very happy if bootloader can be unlocked without htcdev that is relockable with no trace and to have a fully working gb rom with sense 3.5 like the runnymed, i couldn't be happier with the phone like that. I know there is the holiraider and it looks pretty good but i just don't know if i'm ready to take the plunge for just 1 potential rom, so hope all goes well and things develop but this has so much potential so i think i'm gona hold on to the vivid for now and see this thing come back to normal and flourish
Thank you for the breath of fresh air of logic that has come back to this forum. Sadly, I have been hesitant to visit this forum because of all the drama that has occurred as of late about the development of a better rom for our devices.
As you said, there is a reason we all purchased this device over others and it's well clear that there needs to be more work done for it by those who have the skills to do so.
Well said, although this may have been posted a little to late.
I hope that the dev here does continue, but it is looking bleak!
thanks
Very nice write up / read, I'm new to XDA and android altogether. I think this a great device and the few ROMS I've flashed had little or no issues. The work the DEV's have put into these is incredible to say the least. I would love to see all this mess cleared and bring the Vivid development back on track to unleash the full potential that it really possesses.
..
Thank you for this post. I've been more of a xda lurker for the longest time (on other phone forums) and I was happy to be getting in on the sort of ground floor of development for the vivid.. I walked away for a month to take care of some life items and I came back hoping to see some big improvements, instead there is just a load of closed dev threads. It's sad to see that few people not acting civil put things where we are today.
I really hope you can help bring some sanity back to this sector and with that sanity maybe some of the devs will be back too.
superb article. thanks for the great post. something needed to be said!i would imagine that with 4,000,000+ users were gonna have trolls, so i hope the trolls migrate to your post
Thank You!
There is yet hope, Also as stated by the OP, We all did agree to treating people with respect. This is a huge community with all levels of users from Devs and folks that build awesome things to others just starting out with their 1st smartphone (Simple rule, think before you post). This device line could become great. Please let's all do what we can to help this along.
Cheers
BR
Excellent post, I appreciate the time you took to write it, I wish reading it were a requirement of joining the XDA site. I've been flashing roms since I had an HTC Touch Diamond. I confess to being a flashaholic and my worst fear is to lose access to XDA and it's excellent developers because of the rude and immature members that I see regularly. So many don't bother to read and feel they are entitled to the work that the devs do for free.
All I can say is this is awesome, nice to see someone taking the time to help the vivid dev section.
I so miss the help and work by Pirateghost and Wild Child, and whom ever else was contributing.
While i left for only 2 weeks to setup another phone to use, i still have my raider ready and free to help debug and test as needed. Please don't allow a few bad apples to ruin it for the rest of us.
And if I may, maybe we as xda members can share in the task of keeping the forum in check.
EX: see an inappropriate post, flag it for a moderator to address it.
As for GSLEON3, thanks for taking the time to address the forum. hats off to you.
Related
I have been going back and forth for a bit on wether or not to post this thread, but I think it is only fair for us testers and to post our thoughts and concerns. Mods, I apologize for posting a political thread in a technical forum, but this seems to be an applicable and thread worthy discussion So here it goes:
If anyone other than me (and the 5 trillion noobs on this site) have been following the 'black revolution', does anything seem funny about this whole situation with JJ leaving? First, he goes to htc-devs claiming that he refuses to deal with all of the stupid questions and double posts. This is understandable, and I would not be posting this thread if the situation had stopped there. However, the htc-devs forum had a spring-up new users when they found out JJ had moved (including me), but then ubruptly died off after he moved to 4winmoble. Coincidence...I think not.
Even though I personally think that black3.x is not as stable as 2.5, I highly regard JJ roms and I think that he is one of the top developers out. This post is not trash his work. However, I registered for 4wnmobile (grrrr....again) and checked it out to find that:
Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Is is me or are there more ads than posts?
Isnt it convenient that a certain developer got his own sub-forum (unlike the other forums where his work was previously posted)
Is it me or upon checking this forum do you see the same noob posts that were seen in xda?
So, my question is...
If our highly regarded (not being sarcastic) chef has moved due to the noobular influx, why did he not stay at htc-devs where he had mod control do delete these posts? Why did he perpetuate his problem by going to 4winmob?
Has JJ gone "hollywood"?
I have no idea....
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.
at least your turrets only spits out a sentence. mine spits out 5 paragraphs
I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...
I see it like this:
Everyone has their choices. The ones you choose make who you are.
I personnally keep from postng as much as possible, not to be in the swarm of questions and be reffered to as a "noob". I have read and read the forums to upgrade my devices and fix them when I screw them up. If everyone would just read it would help out a lot.
CUSTEL said:
I usually stay out of these threads but I mean honestly, who gives a ****? let him do what he wants...
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Agreed. Let this subject die a quiet death.
There are plenty of us left who enjoy this forum and the work that everyone puts in. Chefs, people who share knowledge and answer posts. Noobs are mainly a problem when more experianced people get frustrated by them and start flame wars.
Just ignore them.
XDA still rocks.
Precisely... People come and go, it's natural progression... =)
Sleuth255 said:
I have no idea....
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Sleuth255 said:
$$$$$$$$!!!!
excuse me.... must be my turrets acting up again...
Seriously... perhaps JJ can elaborate.
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Hi Slueth,
[sarcasm]
Great moderation by the way in the hermes forum.....
[/sarcarsm/]
No NOT $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
i was given my own sub forum which i can completely moderate. I have also got two more moderators with me.
What is this crap about "Hollywood" posted by the member who started the thread? Get real dude, if u dont like then move on.
I also decided that having a general chit chat area on 4WM for people to get to know one another as well as to blow off steam- it is a good idea as it will help keep the tech discussions clean.
Now why dont u all just quit it,,,, for goodness sakes,,,, u are all making a big deal of this.
Yes the site has advertisements as 4winmobile.com is also a comprehensive product review site - WHO CARES!!!!! xda-devs has adds also.
Get over it and move on.....
And by the way, i dont make any money from 4WM - incase you were all wondering..... I just moved there as having control of my own forum seems like an excellent idea since MODERATION on this FORUM stinks!!!!!
Maybe if admin here gave users the power to moderate their threads things will be different. But WHO CARES now - MOVE ON!
Sick of this site, full of,,,, as has been put many times ****WITS!
@Peezy
Quote: Is it me or is this forum slow as F***?
Yes it has been slow at times DUE TO THE DDOS attacks - gee im wondering where they are coming from.
Really professional members on XDA-developers.
JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.
Ouch or Wow?
jellycow said:
JJ, I thought you had your own forum to moderate? I have to say, I have healthy amount of respect for what you've done for the community with the ROMs that you've cooked. In fact, I used to run Black 2.5 on my 8525. I've noticed one of the complaints of people moved forums away from XDA was that that there are too many people posting useless messages like, "WOW~ cool. Downloading now! Thanks man~" Which is strange... Because I thought that was in-line with the spirit of the community. But regardless, I'd like to say thank you for your hard work.
But as you've said repeated, it's time for you to move on. It's too bad that you were frustrated with the moderation in this forum. As forums become popular, they tend to attract lot of n00bs (like myself)...and considering most moderators (like yourself) do not do this full time, I'm sure it's not an easy task. I do, along with many users, appreciate all the hard work. Even if they are not perfect...since I'm not the one who's doing the hard work...I can try to give bit of suggestions here and there...but I really can't complain. I really wish things stayed here on the XDA forums. But too bad things came down to this. But yes...it's time for the community to move on.
I, for one, will stay on XDA. I guess that's my choice. I feel like community is what we make of it. We can always uproot and start a new one...but doesn't change that fact that we owe something to our roots. I've learned everything about my 8525 on this forum. I've never posted much...but I always read and read. It's just in my nature. I figured things out on my own with all the helpful suggestions from other members. So far, I've managed to not brick mine. So I do feel certain sense of loyalty. Correct me if I'm wrong...didn't you get started on these boards as well?
I agree that you've given back to the community infinitely more than I. But I'm still part of this community...and I think I have the right to say that your posts only tarnish your image and past accomplishments on these boards...and bring everybody down. Now that you are a moderator...I've read few posts on your boards about how you'll ban a user for a single misstep. Good luck in that. I guess that's how you get rid of n00bs like me. But being elitist can take you so far. It's just a phone. Yup. A phone. People will drop off as they move away from Hermes and get new phones. Then we are all back to being n00bs again...including you.
Good luck with your board.
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I'm going to guess that by the lack responses that I'm the first to blink, take a deep breath, and decide to say wow, or ouch. Wow for the last post and ouch for it as well. Whoever you are JELLYCOW, that's the most eloquent, constructively insightfull, and conclusively solid summary I think I've ever read in my life. Thank you. Well said; Top Notch; Classy to say the least.
So to JJ... Keep it real yo. As devolpers go, You're work is stellar, and I'm addicted. I went Black... and the only back I ever will go, is gonna be XDA Devs... I started with my Blue Angel and followed the phones as they came out. But my Hermes... it's heart & soul are from you. It's one of the many handsets that run your OS's, past present & yet to come. Keep doing your ****, we all gotta be good at something. This is what you do... you do it well. Your fans and testers, we will follow... Thanks bro.. Peace
NOW WILL SOMEBODY GET JELLYCOW A DAMN PUBLIC RELATIONS JOB WHILE YOU CAN STILL AFFORD THEM... CAUSE THAT ONE IS GONNA GO FAR... THAT LAST POST IS THE PROOF.
Now i'm going to suck down half a bottle of Hershy's Chocolate Syrup, have a glass of Almond Milk, and tuck my hermes into bed with me so it can wake me up in the morning... cause I'm passing out!!!
[And role credits... that's all folks]
-DJBlu
Well said
Agreed, well said JellyCow. I'm also a Noob, read daily and post infrequently and an avid Black 2.5 user. No question at all that JJ is very talented and deserves a lot of credit...though I think some people go overboard with the brown nosing. He kind of reminds me of some of my coder friends. Extremely talented but volatile. Sometimes extremely talented or tech savvy people just are not equipped with the personality or patience to deal with noobs. Often that only comes with maturity and age. Either way..try not to take yourself too seriously and remember that you started doing this for FUN.
Please, could someone move this PRECIOUS thread full of WONDERFULL non-requested advices to the off-topic section?
... I'm trying to read about WM6 ... thanks!
N1kko, L2readthruthreads.
Having downloaded most of JJs delicacies, I wondered what happened to him and his goodies.
This gives some closure.
All the best JJ.
Ok people, get over it.. like said before its the nature of the beast, people move on and new people take over... just because JJ is making a decision to move on doesnt mean that other people will stop cooking. Its not like this is the first time that a chef/developer has left to have a board they can moderate on due to frustrations from other members.
And who cares what his motivation to move on is?!? i mean honestly?!? JJ is going to do whats best for JJ, he is a big boy and can do what he wants. Its not like he is disappearing or quitting cooking, just moving. He was kind enough to let everyone know where he is going so you can join him, but that doesnt mean you have to abandon XDA either.. everyone has the freedom of choice, so make a choice and quit complaining.
Also i have had many conversations with JJ, and i like JJ, i personally dont want to see him go, but i also understand his frustration. This frustration is a double edged sword.. On one hand we have a developer that is good for the board, cooking roms, etc.. On the other hand we had a frustrated developer that was being abusive to noobs and other members which was making the boards harder to moderate...
JJ, i have an amazing amount of respect for you, and you know that, your a great guy and i do consider you a friend personally, but from a moderator standpoint in regards to the poor moderation; you were part of the problem just as much as the st00pid n00b questions that frustrated you.
With all that being said, i wish you well and hope to have future conversations with you!
Well, I cant say that the backlash was not expected, especially from JJ. I think he has every right to explain his concerns, and I am happy that he did. Again, for people who dont know how to FULLY read a post, I respect JJ's work and equally respect his talent as a developer. My reasoning for even posting this thread (sorry again mods for not posting in 'off-topic') is to give US tester a chance to air out our concerns.
We spend a LOT of time reading and learning how to get the best out of our devices. We pride ourselves in being memebers of this great site, and we pride the work that is published here. We all know that there are some problems with the noobs, and I agree with you shogunmark that this is just natural progression. What is NOT, however, is our ability to deal with it. We have all flamed before, and for those of you who have taken time to even ponder if there is a better solution, I thank you.
Im not here to flame JJ, that would be stupid seeing that I am currently using his ROM. I posted this thread to stir up the pot, and also to address our 'roots'. To speak out for us loyal xda-followers. I have once thought about finding another home, and I'm sure most of us have thought that too. I feel stupid for even attempting to follow JJ around the world for his stuff, and again I'm sure some of you feel the same way too.
The fact of the matter is that I started here, and this is where I am gonna stay. I thank all of you who share the same sense of passion and resolve to make sure that we keep xda the best site around!
It's my belief that this needed to be aired out. Thus the reason for my somewhat tongue-in-cheek initial post.
XDA developers forums are having issues not because of the way we run this board but because we're currently offering WM6 while the rest of the world is still running WM5.
History repeats itself. Have a look through the archives and you'll see astounding similarities when XDA was first to release WM5 while the rest of the world was still running 2003.
We will never silence the voice of a n00b here.
First I'd like to start off by saying this is in no way meant to start trouble with Motorola by any means, you guys are an amazing company that make some amazing products. However, as a fan of Motorola and a consumer here are my views and what I assume are the views of many other users. Both people who like root and prefer stock.
I'd like to start by thanking aggiechase37 who's post about Motorola opening up and supporting non-oem ROMs gave me the final push to make and post this thread. If you have not seen it please give it a quick read HERE, and second thanks to everyone who takes the time to read this, if you can please respond with your thoughts on how I feel, and if you agree please post to show your support, hopefully if the support network is large enough Motorola will see the importance and a real benefit to following through with some of what will be said. So tweet this link, give everyone a link to it, and have everyone you know register here at the Motorola support forums, so that they to can show Motorola how big of a community we are, and what we can do with them!
Now to get into the long part... enjoy!
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Thanks Motorola for the Droid 3, it was a great choice to continue the Droid series on your part, I loved my Droid 1, and still use it everyday, and I must say with all the neat features and upgrades you packed in really make it a true phone to marvel at. However, it does have it's shortcomings I'm sure you know more than all of us of all the little quirks in it, and I'm sure your working on some fixes for everyone so we can all really enjoy what this device has to offer.
So to start out, I have a few main points:
Customer Support
Developer side/Developer community side
Opening up a little
OEM supported ROMs
Lets start with Customer Support you guys have a great service record from me, I have never had any problems with contacting you about issues or anything, all of my experiences with you have been more than great, and for that I'd say you are doing a great job. However there are some people who don't get those same experiences, you guys have a wonderful network but there is always room for improvement, just keep that in mind for the future, the best survive and the average fail, so please be the best, because I'd rather have you not fail... The remain aspects of customer support are apart of the Developer Side and the Opening up a little sections below.
Next, the Developer side/Developer community side of things along with the Opening up a little. I understand the reason for you and others to not want the Developer community and to keep your phones and devices purely how you make them and nothing more, but this is old news, no one today wants this. Look at Apple, they are making suits out of their @$$. It's rather annoying to everyone, they are locked down, and since Android was introduced and your Droid 1 launched the Android world has exploded, and the philosophy behind Android is Open Source, so by you transistioning to more of the closed and 'locked' bootloader policy it's making you look more and more at what was the past in the mobile world, sure Apple is still here, but I assume that most of the people who have tried Android from Apple love the experience, and if Apple doesn't make some major changes they will simply become average, while Android becomes the best. So first some stats for you, as I'm sure you know already, but some may not, but there are over 500,000 new Android activations every single day! That's a big number, and it is rising. It has been proven look at just about every single Android device released, they are all rooted for the most part, whether its supported by the manufacturer or not. So root is going to happen no matter if you like it or not, but there are pros and cons to each way of looking at it.
so first the con side, root can be bad, it can ruin a brand new device and steal users info and all other kinds of nasty things, but root is also a nice tool, its good for all of us who want to truly be unlimted with our phones and devices, I'm not going to preach about all the benefits of root, if you want that I'm sure you can find thousands of other sites and blogs with that infomation, instead I'm going to focus on something root does for all of us. One of the root methods found in Android Froyo [2.2] was the 'rage against the cage' while it was an exploit that let all of us root our devices, it also was a way for true 'hackers' with ILL intentions to harm the people who had no idea and were innocent bystanders. Where as the people who found it simply had to use in order to root a device, they had no intentions of using it to steal identies and credit card infomation or anything else for that matter. But the 'hackers' who did are all piggy backing on everyone with the good intentions. With root not being endorsed it makes it easier for everyone to cause malware and harm to the Android name. Now if root was an exteneded option on Android rage against the cage may not have ever been found or used, because there wouldn't be nearly as many people looking for an exploit in the software. But with everyone looking those who want to use it to do bad things then their life is so much easier. They let us do the work and take the bullet and they get to take what they want. So think about it like this If root was an extra option from the manufacturer there wouldn't be nearly as many people trying to find a way to crack your software and make you look bad. Now root is still not something for everyone, but at least the option for it could and most likely would help Android and the manufacturers in the long haul.
Now onto the final point I have, OEM Supported ROMs I know its something you are first going to say will NEVER happen, but look at it like this, others have openly started to partially get to this stage, for example HTCDEV.com coming soon is the section on how to unlock bootloaders, that is good news and the developer community is happy with all that for now, as its a dynamic change in views which is wonderful news. Sony openly supports it as well, just check out this link Unlocking the boot loader | unlockbootloader.sonyericsson.com right on their site how to do it. Now I have to give you guys credit for trying you enabled an unlockable bootloader on the Xoom and now the Atrix, but I have yet to find details on how to do it from you. I have even called and asked various customer service people, most who had no idea what bootloader even was, and the few that did said that you don't support it and I should not do it, and will lose all warrenty from you. All of which I have no problem with. However it was known you supported the unlock the Xoom, otherwise you wouldn't have put it in, so why have your reps say no it's not supported and can't be done? So my first recomendation is to at least make a site or sub site about how to unlock the 'supported' devices witht he bootloaders, think about it, we don't have to come to you to get the info on how to do it, but if we can it makes you look better to all of us. Now onto the second part. like stated in that thread, with a few variations if you officially support unlockable bootloaders on all devices the developer community will love you and embrace it with open arms and your sales will sky rocket, everyone will buy Motorola over the others because of the new policy, but if you also say hey we support community developer ROMs on our devices not only will everyone love you, we will all pee our pants and praise the h**l out of you for ever! Now I'm sure you wondering how the h**l are we supposed to do that and make sure they all work like they should and deal with the head ache its more work than it will benefit. Well that all depends on how you go about it.
I've got plans all figured out on how you could do this seemlessly and easily with little headache on your part, other than making your devices unlockable. I would post it all, but if you are interested I wouldn't want someone like HTC or Sony stealing them and using them first. So I'm giving you Motorola first dibs on this. I also thought about you in the financial aspect so its not like you wouldn't get anything from this, you would also recieve a nice kickback from people using this service, so extra cash, developer and community wide spread peeing of the pants, love and praise for the ages could all be yours. I know even if you are interested it's not something that would be done next week or month, it would take some time to get it all together after we would iron out the details, but I think the investment on your part would go a long way. Hopefully everyone can show you this by supporting me in this thread. I will be posting links on twitter my twitter ID is @DroidConcepts, So if anyone would like to retweet please do, and tweet it yourself as well. I have also emailed this to Motorola, and within the next few weeks will present this to HTC, Sony, LG, and Google. If you or one of them is interested than great I would be more than thrilled to work with you, and I'm not even asking for any money, just a nice new device here and there.. So any feedback from you Motorola is very much welcomed and appreciated and I look forward to hopefully talking further about this, hopefully over the phone, or maybe a trip to the headquarters....
-Woody
I can be reached at the twitter username: @DroidConcepts or by email at [email protected]
I look forward to your response!
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I know this was long, so thank you all for following and reading, and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE show your support so Motorola can not only see how important this is for all of us and the Android community but for them as well.
Twitter link: https://twitter.com/#!/DroidConcepts/status/102548734499495937
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I originally posted this here: https://supportforums.motorola.com/thread/55945
Please RT and support if you can!
First off let me say this isnt my style, I am not one for airing anyones business. I wanted to keep the matter private and handle it behind the scenes so that this small issue didnt turn in to an all out war. As you can see this is exactly what happened.
I am only doing this because i want to clear the air for everyone involved, you all got worked up over nothing really. I will give you a very brief explanation of what happened, and i will not name any names.
With that being said, i first want to make an apology to the 2 devs involved:
Bananacakes, i think that i might not have stated my case very well with you, and based on your posts i feel that there might have been a language barrier and you may have taken what i said out of context. All i ever wanted was for you to talk to me about the issue so i could get your side of the story and make a determination.
WildChild, im sorry that i did not delete BC's rant with everyone elses. I didnt mean to make you look like an a$$. I wanted to give BC a voice on the matter but i didnt want to censor him completely. And in hindsight i may have damaged your name. Was not my intention, and i feel bad that it happened.
In this open community it is acceptable to share and borrow from others but its common courtesy to give the other dev credit for their work.
***********
A brief summary of what happened:
A MEMBER of the community (not one of the devs involved) brought to me an issue of similarities between 2 dev's. provided some screen shots and asked me to investigate the matter, as it APPEARED to be a Kanging issue (to get the story straight, it was MORE than just a so called script). So i contacted both devs involved, one was very cooperative and the other never contacted me. I waited 5 days before i took the next step at contacting the dev and this is where it all turned really ugly and public.
***********
Now, in this issue there has been numerous attacks on each others and some very ugly things said. Im willing to overlook all of those at this moment as i know a lot of you were upset. Loosing 2 dev's is a serious matter when we dont have that many to begin with. If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
Now quick, everyone, group hug!
I am going to leave it open for in case anyone wants to comment or beg either dev to come back. But the instant that someone gets negative toward either dev (i dont care if you talk bad about me, lol) i will lock this from comments.
I had this as a sticky, but in reality there isnt much going on in here right now, so really there is no need. I will only sticky if it starts to fall towards the bottom.
Please come back WC , WE MISS YOU
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing has been proved at this point. And the HoliRaider thread is being looked at by pstevep.
jazzmoe76 said:
Was there wrong doing? Is the HoliRaider thread coming back?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am waiting to talk to bananacakes before any decisions are made. I'm hoping we can work all of this out in a friendly non confrontational way.
I will post here any updates.
Thanks everyone for cooperating.
Sent from my PG86100 using xda premium
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+ 1
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?
Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid
Crimson Ghoul said:
So... The only 2 devs that we had left.. are gone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
haggardh said:
Language barrier? Is one of y'alls native language something other than English?
Sent from my HTC Vivid
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only Bananacakes and Wild Child were constantly updating their roms though... that's what I meant
I have been edited because i cant follow directions.
shogunmark said:
If i see anymore angry posts towards one another i will not hesitate to issue temporary/permanent bans (depending on severity).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
come at me bro said:
So the mods are devs?!?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am the only mod involved with this. But to answer your question, no i am not currently a dev.
NIKKG said:
Everyone needs to just take it easy and not take things too serious. We should just stay focused on the prize, which is producing the best ROMs this phone has ever seen. All that arguing doesn’t get us closer to our goals, but hinders it. So Bananacakes and WC, just chill out and come back, your both good developers. After everyone is back to work and producing again, all this will be forgotten. Especially with ICS just around the corner, we'll need you even more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For real... finally, a voice of reason. I mean, common sense. Okay so everyone has something to be bitter about. But how will that get anyone anywhere?
Walking away from a problem is NEVER the solution. At least Pirate and vhjc are still here, or so it seems.
I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.
shogunmark said:
I havent seen any comments through this whole ordeal from Vhjc or PirateGhost, so i would assume they are still with us. As far as i know its just WildChild and BananaCakes that have decided to leave us. We do hope that they will reverse their decision and decide to come back.
yes, and Bananacakes has stated on a few occasions that his english isnt that great. I personally felt that it was pretty good, but there was definitely some misunderstandings along the way. So i can only assume that it was a language barrier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have never noticed that. Now that I think about it Some things do stick out. Well Thank you. I just saw where hes from. That being said its a different culture between the two. So in each others eyes they were right, and the other wrong.
So I hope neither of them are the stubborn type and decide to work things out.
GSLEON3 nailed it!!!!!! Yes, yes, yes and yes.
GSLEON3 said:
I have had chat's with both guys at on point or another & in jest I probably started this, or some of it anyways.
However, the way I see it is that Android is a Linux fork complete with GPL requirements & in reality it is virtually impossible to Kang anything that is linux or Android related, aside from user side code.
Development at this stage is in it's infancy for the Vivid & Raider due to the lack of sources as well as the lack of developer involvement.
Android is all in all an open source project created with the intent of giving end users more fredom & choices. It is also a fairly easy platform to learn & develop for & on.
Kernels built are based partly on code from Google & sometimes the oem as well. Modifying a Kernel is a fun & sometimes brings us positive changes that improve our devices. How about the addition of the Bravia Engine & XLoud? Cool, right? But nobody thanks Sony in their posts. The whole point of opensource projects & a GPL is that we are supposed to work together to improve devices for ourselves & for end-users. We are supposed to share & collaberate in an effort to streamline our builds, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE A DEVELOPER COMMUNITY.
Yes, it's nice to see your name & be recognized for accomplishments, but that should be secondary, if an issue at all, to development. Let's be honest, most everyone cooking roms is "kanging" (for lack of a more accurate word) code from device chef's that have worked devices released before the Vivid, like the Sensation. We are all definitely "kanging' code from LG, Sony, HTC & Samsung.
Many of the Chef's/Cook's or whatever you want to call them, wouldn't even have an idea without work spanning back over a decade when XDA was truly a developer community forum. Look at all the work BuzzLightYear & itsme did & published for the betterment of the community. It's a different time now & instead of power users & developers being the owners of smartphones, now everyone that has a mobile pretty much has a "Smartphone".
Many of you don't even know that I cook roms. I don't publish them though, aside from a close friend or two, because of all this contention about what belongs to whom. Frankly, unless it is a program, more than likely the work has been done or modified somewhere in some forum on this planet. Unless you are truly rewriting a driver or an application, most everything else is part of the GPL & considered opensource.
I like Bananacakes rom. I like the graphics because the higher contrast makes it easier for me to read. I also like WildChild, bot the stability of his roms & him personally. We talk & razz each other at least once a week. I take both of their roms & mesh then into something I use for a daily driver. I use a modded version of the Rezound Incredikernel for my kernel & scripts from a dozen people. I will never publish it. I don't want to hear how I stole this or that, half of which was really stollen from the oem developer anyway, so I refuse to put myself thru that.
Most threads recognize people that have contributed & so many people contribute & there are so many parts to a rom that it's easy to overlook something that a member may have worked on. This crap all started around the time of the TouchPro & TouchPro 2. People stopped sharing source & started trying to lock down their roms & development stiffled. Sure, there were some cooks that made PRETTY roms, but there was no innovation, not truly.
Either this is a community working on an open source project, and like a family we all share from each others experiences & knowledge, or this is the death of development communities & everything might as well be an iPhone since everyone thinks their contributions are their intellectual property.
For this to remain a true development community, we need to share our work in the spirit of open source. This collaboration has to be a two way street though. If you borrow from someones work, then when you find way of improving upon it, you need to publish it, to share it.
And for criminies sake, knock off the 10 year old "I'm taking my ball home" crap. Kiss & make up, shake hands, get a room...whatever...Just share & share ALIKE & lets get on with making the Vivid the best device.
To all non-developing members: Really, Android is easy to develop for. A ton of the work can be done in a good text editor. There are really goog resources available to help you setup a development environment & even help you learn & write a first simple application. I promise you, it is much less daunting & intimidating than many think. Wild Child is a self-taught developer whom is really not involved in development as a career. I have some professional programming experience, but it is very specific (LANWorks & BACNet). I am not a mobile developer by trade. I'd hate to see either of these guys leave the community, but if they do then step up & learn to help yourself. Start with something you want to change, read learn & then it's trial & error time. Cooking a rom is the easy part. Making it truly unique & perform better than stock is also easy on many levels. It can be as simple making a few changes in text files. We need that. We also need better drivers, our devices are capable of 5Ghz wireless-n connectivity, but the drivers & implementation from HTC prevent it. Better media native compatibility is also another big thing that is possible. Again, this is a community, or supposed to be at least, so get involved. Make an effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have decided to teach myself the trades of development on the android system. Need to put my AAS degree to the test
Sent from my HTC Vivid
I am starting this thread because I am sick and tired of losing developers for a phone that desperately needs them. First it was the WC and BC fiasco that damn near put us out and now some person with no sense of flashing and a lack of understanding when it comes to reading directions has driven away one of our most helpful and successful developers. (WHEN YOU ARE TOLD NOT TO FLASH UNLESS YOU FULLY AND COMPLETELY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING THEN DONT FLIPPING FLASH IT)
To make it worth while I am starting a donation thread, to reward one of the people who have busted their ass (can I say that in the forums?) to help us and give us the phone we know the VIVID should be. I realize more then just PG has done a lot for us and I hope I am not offending anyone.
To put it simple I am starting out with a personal $100 donation. It is not much but it is what I have right now. If anyone wants to flame about what I am doing here do me a favor and don't. MODS, if this turns into a bashing war I would hope for some regulation and the ultimate closure of the thread if problems arise, I am not here to make enemies.
To quote DeamonFish on IRC: "BABY COME BACK! YOU CAN BLAME IT ALL ON ME..."
I'll give 10, I know it's measly, but its all I can give without my wife noticing ; ) saving for Ireland
At this point in time I cannot donate, but I hope to soon.
PirateGhost, please, keep doing what you do. I personally enjoy your ROMs, they're absolutely Amazing.
Thanks, and I hope you reconsider.
I will contribute $20 if he decides to come back. I was very close to flashing his Ice Cream Float before the drama happened, and I want to help showing that there are some people out there who do read, listen to directions, and THINK before going on a forum.
I was and am planning on donating to PG and some of the others as well. I know PG was responsible for a lot of the good work here. The irony is that his RUU might be the one thing that actually could have saved my phone, (At least may have been.) and now it's gone, along with another talented developer. Win, lose or draw, I will donate to this cause after I get some sleep and calm down a little bit.
What others did TO THEIR OWN PHONE and blamed PG was just plain stupid. I'll be donating.
There was a fair warning from the very beginning..
I'll donate. I just need to transfer some funds to my PayPal first.
PG and the other devs left for different reasons but I can pretty surely say that money is not the problem. They did all this developing from free will, not for donations. If PG does come back, he'll just get hit with the same bull**** he's been having to deal with these past few days. I'm just not sure raising money is the right way to go.
We (as in the Vivid forum) were not ready for an ICS release. Based on the huge number of people with bricked phones or bootloops, you can all see how many people jumped in without knowing ANYTHING and for lack of a better term, winged it...which led to their problems. These members didn't wait for an RUU, didn't read any of the stickys, didn't read any of the answers PG already posted in his 20 page threads and on top of that, a couple even went as far as to blame their own failures on, as well as make crazy accusations towards PG. For that, the rest of us suffer and that's how it is.
I love the support so far, please keep it going. Hopefully word gets out
penguinfishies said:
PG and the other devs left for different reasons but I can pretty surely say that money is not the problem. They did all this developing from free will, not for donations. If PG does come back, he'll just get hit with the same bull**** he's been having to deal with these past few days. I'm just not sure raising money is the right way to go.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally agree, but I feel that pledging to donate to him is a show of good faith that there are a number of us who enjoy his roms respectfully. I think it's time for the minority of users with good experiences to overshadow the stupid noobs who have ruined it for the rest of us.
I would for sure donate to the cause...
I myself have been known to ask stupid noobish questions, so I can only imagine how many posts, repeat questions and PMs he must have gotten after releasing this. I was amazed how many people blamed him for their own mistakes, I too bricked my phone but never once blamed him as after I did so I read everything again and again and then realized what I did wrong.
I do hope he comes back after maybe taking a little time away, but there has to be a way for him to have some protection from people, their questions and comments...
P.S.- A semi unrelated but somewhat related statement (and I don't want to start a firestorm) but I do wish in some of these DEV threads the fluff and worthless posts (mine included sometimes) would be erased to keep threads small and more full of worth while information.
I think people got their phone bricked cuz this update was for ATT Stock not any other carriers. So if they tried to flash, it's their own risk. Not to blame all the good devs out there give us better phone than stock.
I would donate too.
I myself asked a question in that very thread that got closed. I wanted to know if that ROM was for my phone because I didn't find any reference to "Velocity". Although people say Vivid and Velocity are interchangeable, I thought I'd ask. And I'm glad I did, otherwise I would have a bricked phone too.
Just one or two IDIOTS spoiling the party for everyone.
PG - can you start a private share so that you can control who has access to your zips and we can still download them?
ststeve123 said:
Just one or two IDIOTS spoiling the party for everyone.
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And this is precisely why we can't have nice things.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA Premium App
I leave for a few hours to go to dinner with some friends and this is what I come back to?
What happened?
I've read 99% of all the posts in the Vivid section, including PG's. Can't belive how much patience and time he put in those replies. I, for one I wouldn't even bother to answer most of them. Unfortunately people don't always appreciate it from obvious reasons (have no idea what developing is). Hope he comes back, it's nor fair to leave us for one or two mindless posters. Is not the noobs, or only the Vivid owners, is the whole Android community that needs him.
Sent from my HTC Vivid via Tapatalk
thecubed said:
I leave for a few hours to go to dinner with some friends and this is what I come back to?
What happened?
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That is where I was at last night... Some Galaxy nexus moron didnt read instructions and bricked his wifes Vivid from what I caught on to. Then he blames it on PG. See General thread First Rom Flash Rum Float Beta for exact details.
I agree with everyone here. When I was told HTC flashing on the vivid was different from other phones and older HTC phones I listened. I waited 48 hours to flash until I made sure I knew everything. Even then I sat in the IRC and continued asking new stupid questions. I was never chewed out, never driven off. I was answered, had my own laughs for stupidity and ended up with ICS.
When someone flashes a rom its like accepting a TOS agreement that comes with software. You agree that it is your own fault if the flash fails, especially if it was successful for so many others.
I am sure PG doesnt care about the money, but its an attempt to show him that just because some people are morons doesnt mean no one supports him and appreciates what he does.
I still haven't flashed ics and won't until I have the time to do it correctly and the knowledge. I have reread how to do it many times. I want to understand how it works before I put it on my phone. It would be awesome to have the newest thing but not at the expense of my phone for not following instructions. I wish I had time to develop but I work two jobs and have a baby coming in a few months.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
I'm not sure that he is taking donations at this point. I donated $10 earlier today and he refunded it?!?
I appreciate the gesture but I cannot bring myself back.
Jazz, I refunded your donation partly because of the way you handled yourself with WC, and partly because I want no expectations from any of this.
I refunded Uberamd because sending me a donation does not give you the right to say whatever you like. It's not a free pass to talk ****.
Sent from my HTC PH39100
Hello everyone,
As i am new here in the XDA world i don't know if this thread is legal or not but i will give it a shot, why not. I was always an apple fan boy since ipad 1, but for the past year i was having my doubts about apple. So i did my self a favor and i purchase an android device, more specifically a Samsung galaxy tab s 8.4 ( wifi only ) or aka ( SM-T700). I did a heave research before i purchased it and i realized it was the best thing under 10". ( i knew i was a getting a TW device )
After my purchase i realised i was not happy at all with the performance of the tablet and a friend suggested XDA as he is using it heavily for his own devices ( tab s, moto g 1st, kindle fire ) He was super pleased with the work of all the devs in here so i said why not, i will join.
After going through all the threads one by one, and reading every single post in them ( talking about T700 threads only ) i realized that the devs that are so effortlessly working on the ROMS and kernels they either don't have the tablet to test or they are not so motivated as they used to be, mainly because people demand things from them without giving back. I recently read in a thread a developer trying to defend his position about his ROM and another guy talking to him about the ROM and the battery life like sh**. Well if it was me i would easily ask from XDA to ban that user. After witnessing that i was like "WT* Dude"... Anw what i am trying to say here don't demand if you don't give, just wait patiently. These 3 paragraphs was only my introduction to my main point.
Since i want to thank our developers and i am talking about 3 here. The guy who makes CM11 @Barracuda77777 , the guy who makes CM12 @eousphoros and the guy who makes the kernels @UpInTheAir . I noticed that these guys are either not motivated enough cause many people don't appreciate or they either don't have the tablet to test and they are waiting for people to test therefore the ROMS come out slower.
My proposal to all of you users here and owners of the T700 version is why not collect some money and buy these guys 1 device each so they mod the hell out of it and everyone can get happier? This is not a charity for them and no they did not ask me to make this thread. I am making this thread because i want to thank them as much as possible for using their spare ours to give FREE their ROMS to all of us. How about we each tip 10-20$ to buy 3 devices and send them to the guys? It's a win-win for all. They get a nice Christmas present as a thank you from all of us and you all get better working roms with a cost of 10-20$
I am willing to collect the money for the guys, so i can get nice deals for the devices. If you are interested send me a PM and i will do my best to find the fastest shipping company in my country so i can deliver the goodies to them
TIME-WASTERS AND HATERS PLEASE DON'T EVEN REPLY TO THIS THREAD. YOU ARE NOT WORTH MY TIME.
Glad for you to be on Xda! I have a T800 (10.5 inch model) and yet we also have roms and kernels from the same devs in this post. They both made a rom/kernels for both models! I'm glad that we have these devs that bring life into our tablets. I dont have any money right now ( not old enough for a job) but Im willing to test roms/ kernels for the devs and report on back for the model I own. Hopefully these devs can get what they deserve. We are lucky to already have such awesome roms and kernels and some other tablets do not even have cm11 yet. Glad that you made this post! It could help the devs get what they deserve because of what they have done to our devices and gave life to them. ?
It's not always about money or motivation or ungrateful end user.
For me, it's also about time. I have a job that involves traveling away and a family. These things are most important to me.
I already support devices i can't personally test and help with guidance here and there.
There's just not enough time in the day to do more as i have other device I'm developing for.
If anyone wishes to donate, please donate to your favorite recognized charity or XDA for hosting these forums. Without XDA we would have next to nothing.
Happy Christmas to all !
Fellow T700 Owner here.
I too would like to thank the Devs for the hard work they do and XDA for supporting the community by existing.
I am always willing to help out and test out anything and everything.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone.
Really dissapointed
So apparently people don't like to give and get. From what i understood i see 170 views and 3 replies. What about everyone else? Free ROMS with demands? anw.. i ll give this a week and wait to collect money.
Thanks again.
Sporbillis said:
So apparently people don't like to give and get. From what i understood i see 170 views and 3 replies. What about everyone else? Free ROMS with demands? anw.. i ll give this a week and wait to collect money.
Thanks again.
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No bad intent ment here at all...but - Sporbillis, you're a brand new member to XDA. I would think there would be trust issues about sending money to ANYONE let alone a new member just popping up and collecting money. So don't feel like the folks here aren't responding because they're freeloaders....it's just too easy to get ripped off....
Just sayin'
flhthemi said:
No bad intent ment here at all...but - Sporbillis, you're a brand new member to XDA. I would think there would be trust issues about sending money to ANYONE let alone a new member just popping up and collecting money. So don't feel like the folks here aren't responding because they're freeloaders....it's just too easy to get ripped off....
Just sayin'
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Yea i get that, if i was going to ripoff people i wouldn't get into the fuss of joining xda and specifically the T700 owners. i would go join some other device with much more audience. anw.
I hear the frustration. Personally, I like to see ROMs from someone who is so passionate and motivated about the device that they went out and bought one, is willing to trip the Knox counter, void warranty and possibly brick the device. That person, I hope, would love the device enough to continue with development when most everyone else has moved on to the next latest and greatest device (DanielHK for the Samsung p6800, for example). In addition, the developer has to be thick-skinned enough to read complaints (both constructive and destructive) and deal with widely varying age groups that have different levels of expectations. Even so, for non-programmer types there is much that can be done via modification of the stock ROM, remove bloat, remove Knox, write to sdcard mod, etc. There is a bit of a learning curve.
What is it about the T700 performance that is unsatisfying? Perhaps there is already a solution. New launchers can be easily installed (Nova, for example). Developer options can tweak some limited performance issues. There are build prop and .xml mods also (requires root).
TonyBigs said:
I hear the frustration. Personally, I like to see ROMs from someone who is so passionate and motivated about the device that they went out and bought one, is willing to trip the Knox counter, void warranty and possibly brick the device. That person, I hope, would love the device enough to continue with development when most everyone else has moved on to the next latest and greatest device (DanielHK for the Samsung p6800, for example). In addition, the developer has to be thick-skinned enough to read complaints (both constructive and destructive) and deal with widely varying age groups that have different levels of expectations. Even so, for non-programmer types there is much that can be done via modification of the stock ROM, remove bloat, remove Knox, write to sdcard mod, etc. There is a bit of a learning curve.
What is it about the T700 performance that is unsatisfying? Perhaps there is already a solution. New launchers can be easily installed (Nova, for example). Developer options can tweak some limited performance issues. There are build prop and .xml mods also (requires root).
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I dont get how this reply fits this thread..
Sporbillis said:
I dont get how this reply fits this thread..
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It fits because one of the developers noted in the original post replied and explained his reasons as to why he (probably) will not participate. He suggested that the donated money go elsewhere. Keep in mind that giving developers a tablet is not, necessarily, "giving back" -- for the developer it is also proposing that they work. Does the request propose giving the developers a tablet with no expectations of a ROM ever being developed for the device and not bothering them if a ROM is not forthcoming? If so, that proposal might be considered "giving back". Otherwise, the proposal is just reducing the material/monetary overhead for the developer but not reducing (or funding) the workload.
If a ROM is required, offer up a substantial bounty worth the developer's time and effort along with the materials -- then there *may* be some takers. That offer might make developers happy. Given the lack of responses at this time it appears that the offer as it stands (funded mainly by others) is not enough.
TonyBigs said:
It fits because one of the developers noted in the original post replied and explained his reasons as to why he (probably) will not participate. He suggested that the donated money go elsewhere. Keep in mind that giving developers a tablet is not, necessarily, "giving back" -- for the developer it is also proposing that they work. Does the request propose giving the developers a tablet with no expectations of a ROM ever being developed for the device and not bothering them if a ROM is not forthcoming? If so, that proposal might be considered "giving back". Otherwise, the proposal is just reducing the material/monetary overhead for the developer but not reducing (or funding) the workload.
If a ROM is required, offer up a substantial bounty worth the developer's time and effort along with the materials -- then there *may* be some takers. That offer might make developers happy. Given the lack of responses at this time it appears that the offer as it stands (funded mainly by others) is not enough.
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Now i get your point and you are right. The only purpose of this thread was to help those developers who are developing the rom and struggling without a tablet to actually have a tablet to test but most importantly for us to Say "THANK YOU" to them by giving them the tablet. If they want to work more or less after getting the tablet is their business. I was just kind enough to think about starting this thread. About upintheair i get where he comes from " NO TIME AVAILABLE " and i appreciate his honesty. Even though he has a tablet. The money portion of the thread collected can be given to him if he has a tablet and again as a thank you not as a "please work more"
I hope i was clear enough because i was in a hurry writting.
Thanks