Related
You know what, honestly, I'm a huge fan of DINIKs work, it's beautiful. Hate me if you want, but he doesn't deserve the **** some people have put him through. If you don't like his work, simply shut the F*CK up and don't download it OR use a ROM that has it included...
Is it that hard to follow rules? Honestly... He asked people not to distribute his work without permission, yet I see it happening daily...
Yeah, I have "manipulated" his work, but only to fulfill requests IN HIS OFFICIAL HD2 ICON THREAD, saving him time.
Am I re-distributing his work without his permission? No, I assisted someone in need.
Some people became belligerent, harassing his work because it came with a ROM.... my answer to their stupidity, FLASH A NEW ROM FFS.... If you don't want DINIKs work on your Device, don't flash a ROM with it included. You're only making yourself look dumber.
Remember, most Chefs make ROMs to THEIR personal liking for their own devices, not just to please you. If I Cooked up a ROM and it had DINIKs work {with permission} in it, and someone asked me to get rid of it, I'd immediately direct that user back to the Device ROM fora, and tell them to choose another ROM. Simple as that.
Does DINIK support my creating of this thread? Honestly, probably not... but thanks to these people who consistently blab on about how bad his work is, and how "they can make it too", he has announced that his work will now be for his ROM only... which means HD2 only.
I have no plans to update my Device to a non-hardware keyboard device, so thanks a*sholes... now I, and MANY MANY others, no-longer get to enjoy the work of DINIK.
Do I care if you can make the Anastasia Icons as good as DINIK can? No, I don't. The IDEA behind the set is what makes it beautiful and worthwhile, and DINIK took the time out of HIS day to make ALL of the icons... I don't see you doing this.. I just see you wasting my precious bandwidth and oxygen.
Feel free to comment, BUT if you're going to RANT against me this thread, why don't you just PM an Admin and request for your account to be banned and deleted... it'll save us all a bunch of eye-sores and the chance of our IQs being lowered...
[I felt this thread was necessary to bring people back to reality. Some people are too asinine to simply respect someones work, and time put into the work. I feel the day is coming where Chefs no longer get thanked, nor receive donations... and the day that happens my friends is the day that we all become part of Apples Auschwitz Posse of Fanbois.]
With you on this one mate, too many people are disprespectful to people who spend their own time making other peoples lives/devices better.
we all suffer because of their stupidity, the worst bit is, folk who take what is not theirs and use as they wish without permission will likely not give a damn about it and they will simply move on to copy someone elses work
I 2nd and 3rd that one mate.....
The guys/girls on here that devote their time to making some amazing programs to make our devices a whole lot better than we could possibly imagine, and you get arseholes gobbing off...
I truely respect everyone of the developers and can only say...
IF SOMEONE DOESNT LIKE A CERTAIN PROGRAM/SOFTWARE.......DONT BLOODY DOWNLOAD IT....SIMPLE....
Respect to DINIK and ALL the developers on this site...!!!!
Viva la XDA.....
i cosign this post
Thx Agent Zach and others...i know 90% users here are happy with me and what im doing...its just that this 5-10 people...became so loud and so annoying...that its no more fun to be here and post...it all began with one user who disliked me...and now it started to grow...i dont know what they thinking...they all using my work...and attack me...that one who doing it for them? maybe they should think again about it...to attack an author is not a good idea itself...but to attack an author that you like (use his works) is def an idea of an idiot.
they attacked me and my works...and suffered now...cause i not doing anymore cabs and do only rom exclusive updates...now they started attacking my rom and to rip files out of it (because after the first attack they get no more cabs)...the stupidity have no end...with all that they gonna loose all...i just quit posting here.
I understand your choice 100%.
This thread was intended to show support to your work, as you can already see by the responses. But it was also intended to bring these ignorant folks out of their shell. Maybe they'll learn that people won't kneel at their feet and fulfill their demands.
All it takes is one person to screw something up, and it all rolls downhill from there... it's the vicious circle of idiocracy.
I just hope that one day, something or someone can help change your mind. I understand your thoughts on the Exclusivity of the new Anastasia for your ROM, but it does, in-fact, suck for the rest of us.
I love your work, simple & through. Whatever decisions you make, my friend, I support.
UPDATE::
One of the rules these people should take notice of:
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
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Click to collapse
Read the rules HERE!
Mod Input
Just a gentle reminder that this thread is on watch to ensure that all members post within the forum rules...http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?f=534
If you see a post that is a problem please use the Report Button function to flag it up so we can take the appropriate action.
Many thanks
WB
Thus I linked to the Rules.
Trust me, I won't hesitate to Report.
Some people may even Report my first post in this thread, as the people it's directed towards may become upset with themselves, and then ME for pointing out their mistakes.
I'm not familiar with dinik, his work, or any of you guys that know him but based on what I've read here in the off topic section in the last couple days...
I'm nebenezer, and I approve this message.
Totally agreed with this thread! I don't know way, almost everyone have some of Dinnik's work; and the only thing some people do is dispute! He have changed for us the hole layout from our device, what I'm thankful fore and for some reason or a other there are always people's who don't respect him!!
Ok I must be honest, in the beginning I missed something ore like to see more of his stuff on my device!! So I have simply contact him to asked his authorization to used his basic work to create my'n, and I'm not he only one who have did that!! From the first time I have contact him, till know I have a new friend!! I don't know if it is me ore what!! But in each case my parents have learn me to asked and not to steal!!
It is a golden rules in life in brings you a great part father!
As I mentioned earlier Dinnik, you have more friends here than enemies!
kurt-willems said:
As I mentioned earlier Dinnik, you have more friends here than enemies!
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Exactly.
But I admit, being a Photoshop Artist myself, the smallest bit of criticism to my work does lower my self esteem and respect toward "the receivers" of my work, no matter how many positive comments I get.
Maybe it's just a conflict within ones' self, and not necessarily a hatred for the critics...
Maybe my metaphoric "Ego" is much more vulnerable than I thought... maybe every artists Ego is..
nebenezer said:
I'm not familiar with dinik, his work, or any of you guys that know him but based on what I've read here in the off topic section in the last couple days...
I'm nebenezer, and I approve this message.
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Brought to you by the JAguirre foundation for a better society.
Nice Thread!!!
Am a big fan of your work dinik..
A big thumbs up mate Keep up the good work
Welcome to the world dinik..It is something that you have got to get used to it. I know this from my experience..
DINIK......
Pse do not stop posting because of a few narrow minded idiots..!!! Your stuff if loved by thousands of people on this amazing site.. Keep up the good work fella...
topic says it all
If it was worth trying out you would have posted it here.
edit: Also, the channel name wouldn't be so stupid.
r0man said:
If it was worth trying out you would have posted it here.
edit: Also, the channel name wouldn't be so stupid.
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it's called beta for a reason, because it's not worth trying out, but i need people who aren't total dicks to help me make it worth trying out.
sonofskywalker3 said:
it's called beta for a reason, because it's not worth trying out, but i need people who aren't total dicks to help me make it worth trying out.
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Beta software is software with a few bugs, you are thinking of alpha. This section is for development, not a place to hold the hands of wannabe devs and WinZippers.
How do I join?
Do I get a free gift if I join? I really wanna join but I wanna make it worth my while
r0man said:
This section is for development, not a place to hold the hands of wannabe devs and WinZippers.
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all i have to say about this is wow.... lmfao... that was great it just made my day lol
r0man said:
Beta software is software with a few bugs, you are thinking of alpha. This section is for development, not a place to hold the hands of wannabe devs and WinZippers.
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Click to collapse
check out the fascinate board and then tell me i'm a wannabe. or look at my other topic on here and check out the 2000+ line ROM Manager Manifest.
abcdavidefg said:
How do I join?
Click to expand...
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you can either use an irc client like MIRC or the firefox addon Chatzilla, or go to www.freenode.net and sign in to the webchat
r0man said:
Beta software is software with a few bugs, you are thinking of alpha. This section is for development, not a place to hold the hands of wannabe devs and WinZippers.
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Click to collapse
woa wtf is your problem? quit trolling his thread cause your mad you can't make ****. I don't give a flying f*** how many posts you have your acting like a straight up dickhead who sounds jealous.people wonder why the devs are slowly leaving xda. its cause of tards like roman thats why.
djquick said:
Do I get a free gift if I join? I really wanna join but I wanna make it worth my while
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Click to collapse
I wish i could, but all that you'll get is a chance to help me on my way to getting my rom in ROM manager for you guys.
Free gift= first one to use the rom
r0man... in defense of skywalker... he was just talking about how he was a fascninate dev and was trying to get this rom working on the vibrant... which is actually a pretty awesome task... doing it in a way NO other vibrant dev has done.. .. making it able to download right through rom manager... to tailor the rom install (if i am not mistaken) to include exactly what you wish...
while i think the irc way is a little out of my way... whatever... its his way.. his rom... if you dont like it... dont be a part of it... why call names and such...
y
honestly.. IMHO.. its the negativity like yours that drives the real devs away from xda...
pack said:
all i have to say about this is wow.... lmfao... that was great it just made my day lol
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You're welcome
sonofskywalker3 said:
check out the fascinate board and then tell me i'm a wannabe. or look at my other topic on here and check out the 2000+ line ROM Manager Manifest.
you can either use an irc client like MIRC or the firefox addon Chatzilla, or go to www.freenode.net and sign in to the webchat
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Click to collapse
Wow, your stupidity truly boggles the mind! Oh dear, where to begin...
Let us start with your grammar and capitalization. Now, no one here expects anyone else to adhere to the exact guidelines of the English language but for God's sake man, at least capitalize the first letter of the topic. If you don't, people will assume (quite truly) that you are about 13 years old and are attempting to get your 5 minutes of fame.
Next, making a topic in development trying to force people into your IRC channel is ridiculous. You provide NO details whatsoever. No developer in their right minds would consider making a thread about an upcoming project with absolutely no information.
So I decided to look at a thread you made over in the Fascinate forums, here is something you said in it: "Once our great Devs figure out how to..." I stopped reading right there. If you are going to create ROMs, know how to fix ****.
And finally, to your "2000+ line ROM Manager manifest" I could honestly have no less of an idea what you are babbling about.
Also, anyone who recommends ChatZilla should go die for you are the scum of technology lovers everywhere.
/thread
renocivik said:
r0man... in defense of skywalker... he was just talking about how he was a fascninate dev and was trying to get this rom working on the vibrant... which is actually a pretty awesome task... doing it in a way NO other vibrant dev has done.. .. making it able to download right through rom manager... to tailor the rom install (if i am not mistaken) to include exactly what you wish...
while i think the irc way is a little out of my way... whatever... its his way.. his rom... if you dont like it... dont be a part of it... why call names and such...
y
honestly.. IMHO.. its the negativity like yours that drives the real devs away from xda...
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Click to collapse
Now, now. I am not an unreasonable or jealous person, and I believe you have a legitimate reason for calling me out like this. Let me explain, there are 2 kinds of "developers" that populate the XDA forums; developers (Cyan, Eugene, #TeamWhiskey) and WinZippers (everyone over in the themes section, the OP). The former category deserve much applause for their hardwork, and so do the themers in the latter category. The problem is when people from the second group believe they know anything about Android and decide to run off and "create" a ROM. This results in a legion of clone ROMs created with the Android Kitchen that have a different name and MAYBE a different color notification bar. It is sad and pathetic, and it has claimed the livelihood of the G1 developer forum.
texasrocket said:
woa wtf is your problem? quit trolling his thread cause your mad you can't make ****. I don't give a flying f*** how many posts you have your acting like a straight up dickhead who sounds jealous.people wonder why the devs are slowly leaving xda. its cause of tards like roman thats why.
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First off I want to inform you that my username is not roman, it is r0man. With a zero. #justsayin :roll:
Anywho, that was a bit OT. I am not trolling anyone. I am simply trying to tell people not to waste their time with the OP's bull**** WinZippery. The *real* reason developers leave XDA is because people don't use the search feature which irks them to no end, not "straight up dickhead." My post count is irrelevant and I don't hide behind it so I can act like a pretentious ass, I just like to post a lot.
I have installed Chatzilla what do i Do next?
r0man said:
Now, now. I am not an unreasonable or jealous person, and I believe you have a legitimate reason for calling me out like this. Let me explain, there are 2 kinds of "developers" that populate the XDA forums; developers (Cyan, Eugene, #TeamWhiskey) and WinZippers (everyone over in the themes section, the OP). The former category deserve much applause for their hardwork, and so do the themers in the latter category. The problem is when people from the second group believe they know anything about Android and decide to run off and "create" a ROM. This results in a legion of clone ROMs created with the Android Kitchen that have a different name and MAYBE a different color notification bar. It is sad and pathetic, and it has claimed the livelihood of the G1 developer forum.
First off I want to inform you that my username is not roman, it is r0man. With a zero. #justsayin :roll:
Anywho, that was a bit OT. I am not trolling anyone. I am simply trying to tell people not to waste their time with the OP's bull**** WinZippery. The *real* reason developers leave XDA is because people don't use the search feature which irks them to no end, not "straight up dickhead." My post count is irrelevant and I don't hide behind it so I can act like a pretentious ass, I just like to post a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well you are acting like a pretentious ass who likes to post alot. Why are you telling people not to waste their time? Maybe they don't think they are wasting their time. who are you to say that they are? If they want to go try out his rom let them. what does it have to do with you? It sounds to me like you are jealous with your nerd rage. it's pathetic.
texasrocket said:
Well you are acting like a pretentious ass who likes to post alot. Why are you telling people not to waste their time? Maybe they don't think they are wasting their time. who are you to say that they are? If they want to go try out his rom let them. what does it have to do with you? It sounds to me like you are jealous with your nerd rage. it's pathetic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does "jealous with your nerd rage" even mean? That I am jealous of a WinZipper who probably doesn't even know how to compile from source? I think not.
r0man said:
Now, now. I am not an unreasonable or jealous person, and I believe you have a legitimate reason for calling me out like this. Let me explain, there are 2 kinds of "developers" that populate the XDA forums; developers (Cyan, Eugene, #TeamWhiskey) and WinZippers (everyone over in the themes section, the OP). The former category deserve much applause for their hardwork, and so do the themers in the latter category. The problem is when people from the second group believe they know anything about Android and decide to run off and "create" a ROM. This results in a legion of clone ROMs created with the Android Kitchen that have a different name and MAYBE a different color notification bar. It is sad and pathetic, and it has claimed the livelihood of the G1 developer forum.
First off I want to inform you that my username is not roman, it is r0man. With a zero. #justsayin :roll:
Anywho, that was a bit OT. I am not trolling anyone. I am simply trying to tell people not to waste their time with the OP's bull**** WinZippery. The *real* reason developers leave XDA is because people don't use the search feature which irks them to no end, not "straight up dickhead." My post count is irrelevant and I don't hide behind it so I can act like a pretentious ass, I just like to post a lot.
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Though this guy may not be the next JesusFreke or Cyanogen why give him a hard time. It seems he's adding more to the development than you are my friend.we have enough touch holes like you wondering around here. Either:
A. Contribute something development-wise to this forum
B. Create your own forum
C. Stop *****ing at people for trying to contribute what they can.
Stop being a **** just to be a ****. It's not very flattering buckeroo.
Just saying
god someone please delete this topic already. i did not mean to start a flame war. i asked earlier if anyone was interested in what i was offering, it seemed like they were, so i tried to get some people to test it for me in realtime. if i had a vibrant i'd do it myself like i do for the fascinate. but i don't. just trying to bring my idea to other phones. sorry i stepped on your toes. sorry for being a useless winzipper, but everybody's gotta start somewhere.
danr238 said:
Though this guy may not be the next JesusFreke or Cyanogen why give him a hard time. It seems he's adding more to the development than you are my friend.we have enough touch holes like you wondering around here. Either:
A. Contribute something development-wise to this forum
B. Create your own forum
C. Stop *****ing at people for trying to contribute what they can.
Stop being a **** just to be a ****. It's not very flattering buckeroo.
Just saying
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's not contributing ANYTHING though! All he is doing is attention-whoring, and breaking the rules at the same time (projects without any details/screenshots/etc got jdkoreclipse banned).
To all,
I don't really know what is going on in here, why you guys are fighting, or why you simply can't get along. We have been acting a lot in here only to see nothing more than constant flaming, finger pointing, and the such... all behaviors that are not allowed in XDA grounds (see rule 2).
Over the last week or so there have been constant comments, complains, and tons of issues coming from this section. There have been a bunch of moderators in here already, and it seems that this has no end in sight. As far as I am concerned, banning is a useful tool, which is better avoided if not absolutely needed... and I believe this to be the case.
Having said this, I would like to offer the following approach to solve the issue with Master (and any other issues that you may have in your minds)... A Town Hall meeting type of thread, which will be grounds for discussion of current issues (you can see the thread here). I did this in the Hero CDMA section several months ago and everything turned out rather well since people were able to talk and discuss issues in a civilized manner.
Here are the rules:
- The thread will only remain open for discussion for a certain period of time (I did the last one for 8 hours).
- No flaming/trolling/rudeness/cursing will be allowed.
- No banning will occur.
- Irrelevant posts will be automatically deleted.
- The thread will be heavily monitored by one or more moderators.
If I get enough people agreeing to participate via this poll, I will then schedule a time.
This is will be a final resource before banning begins. I am willing to put up the time if you guys are willing to cooperate.
Let me know what you all think.
From Papa_Smurf151 (thought of this message to be more universal, so I changed a thing or two to make it fit here ),
OK u guys...I know everyone is tired of all the drama on here. I have been talking to one of the mods through pm and gave a suggestion for a town hall meeting to discuss the problems as of late. The mod agreed that he and hopefully other mods would be willing to open a thread where we can discuss these issues. There will be no banning for what is said in this meeting but with a mod present and engaging in convo the tone needs to stay clean or semi at least. Failure would result in post being deleted. There will be rules that the mods what followed but its to keep the pease.
Look this cdma community has been split for a little while now. U can feel the tention in some post. Its time to stop the flaming and the trolling. This is not just about the Master thing even though that's what sent all of this overboard.
The mods only see part of this community and its the ugly side. They are harsh cause they are misinformed about certain people and certain actions. This is our opportunity to have a united voice and share how things really are and ideas on how to remedy them
Its time to reunite as the amazing community this used to be and get back to what really matters.
Feel free to comment. Please keep it clean. The more votes in the poll the better.
The meeting would be at a set time and heavily monitored then closed once alotted time had past. Please join and enjoy.
This is not the meeting. It is just a poll to let mods know we are serious and that we can behaive.
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I think this is a great idea. I've been at XDA for some time now and i've never seen a forum get this out of hand. This will be a great opportunity for people to get things off their shoulder.
I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.
I like the concept & I'll participate if it happens, but I think jnutz is right. People are blatantly ignoring the rules simply because nothing happens to them if they don't.
People who like TeamWhiskey/Eugene/Master/[Anyone else I missed]... go into the threads of the ones they don't like/use and flame away and cause threads for an active ROM to be closed! This is insane!
I don't remember people being this rude and disrespectful of everyone else when I was looking up information for an old Windows Mobile phone or when I actually joined after I got my G1.
Maybe a combination of both approaches? Ban the people who are repeat offenders now and have the town hall meeting for the ones who aren't as big of disruptions?
We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)
As Ez said, its a more civilized method in which we can communicate openly with the Members of the fora in order to workout issues we have all witnessed. The Town Hall will be monitored by the moderators (myself included) in order to make sure we stay on topic and so that it can be of actual use for all of us. These town halls allow us to bring light onto issues users have been facing along with us moderators being able to give input and action ideas that have a general consensus. If you wish to see one that has happened before and see the outcome you can look here. As Ez told me, the previous one turned the whole forum around 180 degrees and the users in there are way better now. I look forward to this if we have one.
This is a good idea.. I've been a frequent visitor of xda since I have a G1. XDA has been my information resource for my devices (G1, mytouch 3G, mytouch slide, and Vibrant).. I have made donations also to some devs for their great work.. but I never bother to post questions or suggest solutions because of the trolling and flaming going on.. It would be very nice if everything will be put in order.. This is my first post..
I felt really bad when Eugene left XDA.. great dev.. but things are not so good..
Great Idea and ASAP
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
Same, same...no pun intended on shame, shame...
oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
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While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...
here.david said:
While I agree with almost all that has been posted here, let's not over look that the number of ROMs and more to the point the updating of said same gives much of the grief, IMHO....
More is not always better....wile I have learned so very much these past two years - I understand, have, nd do support other bards as the "less than sterling behaviors" here within has driven many away.
I too wish to be of help so count me in...
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Click to collapse
oka1 said:
This is a great suggestion and I can help Mod if needed (I am free next week). The forum is getting over-run by adolescent behavior. All the developers and contributors have made ALL our phones a better experience and I, for one, want to see it continue. I have gotten help from Master, Sombionix and Eugene and other experts here personally. I do not know of many places today where people/ devs take the time to help just out of the kindness of their heart to just about everyone who asks. preserving this benefits all. I am older than just about everyone here (in age) and one thing I do know is "you cannot eliminate stupidity........ but you can contain it"............. I am in just let me know when
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the interest in helping but the moderators such as myself and Egz will be watching this (if it happens) along with a few others, thanks though
jnutz said:
I say bring the ban hammer down. It may seem harsh but it is the only way to make people behave. I vote no town hall and more banning for repeated violations of the forum rules.
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civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!
I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave. A lot of what goes on here resembles petty high school drama, take that **** to Facebook, not a development forum!
This won't solve anything. People need to realize that people who created this awesome site along with the ROMs, mods, and themes and etc. are doing this on their own free will and time, they are NOT getting paid...
People need to learn a little courtesy before anything.
/thread
almyz125 said:
I would definitely participate, i am fed up with what i see around this forum, i've seriously considered taking down the vibrant bible, after seeing how some people act on this forum. I like XDA and i like what it offers but if people cant take what it offerers and turn it into something productive, just leave.
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Click to collapse
I doubt taking down the bible would prove any worth, if anything it would harm the people that use it, and the assholes on this forum wouldn't even notice. Warnings and bans need to be given to those who violate the rules.
Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?
Yes but..........
scrizz said:
civilized Shmivilized hasn't worked so far.
I say, BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
BAN BAN BAN!
who's with me!
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The punks that should be banned... ok, ban them... then what ? they change their name and are back on different name same ****......... ok then what then? ban the isp?..........that algorithm too complex to manage so, although I totally agree with you, I do not see a practical way.......... but yes, ban them anyway for good measure. Then, as a collective body we would need to shun them as well. If people get no response from the forum members, sooner or later, they get the message and move on.....
Options
I would say, let's fo the town hall, and after that maybe before banning could you kind of redirect the offenders for let's say two or three days for half an hour every login to the rules page?
If that does not work either, then i would be all up for the french revolution tactic. off with their heads!
scrizz said:
Do you guys really think that the Cancer that is eating away at XDA is going to come to a town hall meeting?
Honestly, Do You?
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Hey Scrizz,
They have worked in the past even for Forums that are like the Vibrant's, look here
If it's something that has worked in the past, it's worth a try. I don't think the "Cancer" will attend but it may help the non-problem users come up with better ways to deal with problems.
It might help and it certainly can't hurt. I vote yes.
egzthunder1 said:
We ban when needed be. This is a more civilized approach at trying to work things out with more seasoned members. I have seen long time seniors in here just flat out flaming the heck out of new members for no reason (just posting in the wrong place gives no one the right to call someone a retard)
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Gotcha. I was (wrongfully) under the impression that this was a "is this a good idea" thread, so I basically answered 'no, you should enforce the rules', but it seems to be a "we want to do this because it's helped calm things down in the past, will you help us" thread.
And in answer to the question that you actually asked (rather than the question I inferred), if the timing doesn't conflict with anything in real life, I would definitely like to be a part of this discussion. The sooner it happens, the better because things are way out of hand.
So I've been frequenting these forums for years now. And specifically the Note5 forums ever since I got an n920i. Coming from a OnePlus One, the development for the Note5 is quite underwhelming, and hey, I get it, it's a tough device to develop for. I've seen some really cool things come from these forums. And a lot of users that are passionate about getting the max out of their devices.
But the last few months I've seen two of the major kernel developers drop out from the game. One, well he doesn't even have a device on hand. But the other one, a very passionate developer left because of supposedly problems with the moderators. And if it is because of moderators that are pushing developers away from an admittedly small community, then I feel the community should at least deserve some answers to why developers are leaving the note5 over the moderators. And, if possible, how to resolve these problems. The note5 isn't even a year old and yet support is already dwindling. Developers get bored and quit. That's fine. But when people who are given control to moderate these threads are the ones pushing them away, we should get answers.
That's pretty much my rant. Feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree.
abde27 said:
So I've been frequenting these forums for years now. And specifically the Note5 forums ever since I got an n920i. Coming from a OnePlus One, the development for the Note5 is quite underwhelming, and hey, I get it, it's a tough device to develop for. I've seen some really cool things come from these forums. And a lot of users that are passionate about getting the max out of their devices.
But the last few months I've seen two of the major kernel developers drop out from the game. One, well he doesn't even have a device on hand. But the other one, a very passionate developer left because of supposedly problems with the moderators. And if it is because of moderators that are pushing developers away from an admittedly small community, then I feel the community should at least deserve some answers to why developers are leaving the note5 over the moderators. And, if possible, how to resolve these problems. The note5 isn't even a year old and yet support is already dwindling. Developers get bored and quit. That's fine. But when people who are given control to moderate these threads are the ones pushing them away, we should get answers.
That's pretty much my rant. Feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree.
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I agree with you. If you frequent the forums. You can piece it together when you read bits in different forums. There's still some rom makers and cm13 is being cooked. But unless something changes I reckon in that next 3-4 months. Note 5 is going to become a waste land. Or *young devs* will remain. Nothing wrong with them but.. You know what I mean. Compared to devs that have always done this kind of thing. So I think it's going to dwindle slowly. And then just fade off. Specially when the note 6/other devices hit. Game over...... That's my bet
I totally agree, the issue is there are just so many variants for Samsung devices now its hard for the developers to keep up with every device. Back when I had the Note 3 there were only two variants whereas now there are more than 5 variants for the Note 5.
Even the amount of actual devices there are, there are just too many Samsung are releasing. Back in 2013 there were only 'flagship' devices being developed for as they were the only ones worth developing for, but now there are low-mid range devices that can have a lot of development potential.
If its going to be poor development like this for the Note 5 in the near future or even possibly the Note 6 I might just buy the next Nexus device. I had only bought the Note 5 as I had the Note 4,3 and 2 and the Note line-up was always more powerful than the regular flagship devices.
I've seen and heard complaints about the moderation teams, and I've seen many, many developers come and go on these forums. What most of you do not see is the reason that some of these "developers" leave badmouthing the moderators.
We have a very lenient set of rules here, yet many people feel the need to try to push the boundaries of them, some much more than others.
We have had "developers" leave because they got busted stealing others work, because they got busted trying to make money off of the users here, busted for trying to get users to buy them devices, computers, etc...
We've had our fair share of those who let the "fame" go to their heads and began believing they were above the rules.
And finally, what you don't see, is that we try to work with these people, for the community's sake, to correct the problems, long before they are reprimanded for their actions. In the end it comes down to these people not getting their way, so they take their ball and go home, all the while complaining about the big, bad moderators.
You can choose to believe what you wish, but believe me when I tell you that development is dying because the type of developers that you're seeing more and more of, truly don't care about the community unless you line their pockets or subjugate yourselves to their abuse.
Why do you not see a great majority of the above in the forums? We moderators clean it up so that the community thrives, because really, who wants to support a developer that belittles, berates and humiliates his supporters? Ask him that on whatever social media he's taken up to complain about how he was treated here...
Thank you. I am personally not against moderators. They save threads again and again when things get out of hand. Without moderators, XDA might not be here still.
All I'm asking for is some transparency. To see if a developer left because of moderators or because they themselves broke rules, or whatever the reason is. A device with a lot of development behind it doesn't need that type of transparency because if someone leaves, it doesn't hurt the overall community if there are others working on it. But in a small community like this, it's harder to swallow. If a developer leaves claiming that the moderation team forced them away then maybe the moderation team should give their side of the story so the community knows what's going on, and if there are people interested in developing for the device that they have a frame of reference of knowing what is acceptable here and what isn't.
I hope that makes sense. And I know being transparent isn't the easiest thing to do. But if people are seeing that moderators are being blamed when developers leave and moderators staying quiet, then what kind of message does that send?
There's a clear line between acceptable transparency and airing out other people's dirty laundry in a publicly visible space. It's easy to ask for transparency when someone else is at fault, but imagine being on the other side--transparency might not be the word you'd use to describe it. As far as what's acceptable and what's not, the forum rules are sufficiently clear. Stay within the bounds of that document and you'll have no trouble from the mods. Our goal is to make this a developer-friendly environment that encourages everyone to contribute.
I agree that there is a difference but we are looking at a device that is losing devs by the minute. I do not want to start a political revolution here, or change rules. I do not expect development for the Note5. I would like to see development, but I'm not expecting it. It's very heartbreaking seeing that this forum is mysteriously losing developers for a device not even a year old.
If anything, lets work together to create a place for development to flourish, just like the rules ask us to.
yeah seems like all the big devs are leaving and we left with roms updated from December. All threads are closed without any explanation. Kinda sad since the note 5 really needs more devs to develop. great device but if there's no support from devs. i will stay away from samsung for a while.
The biggest question of me till now is Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
Lam pham said:
Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
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I read his post where he explain something about problems with moderator(s) and I saw a strange phrase something like "developers need help from moderators" or something similar to it, but I don't understand WHAT help a moderator could give to the Dev.
More over I don't understand why a Dev could think to leave a community due to problems with moderator(s)....Moderators manage rules and I don't figure out how this could touch/ruins Dev's work.
All of this is strange for me.
At the end of the day, every closed thread here is closed because there was an issue revolving around kanging of people's work- that's where it STARTS...from there mods are forced to step in, and it's at this stage that SOMEONE will always feel they were done wrong- either thru uneducated assumptions on things like the GPL or apache licenses and what is or is not acceptable to document "credit given" and "permission" to maintain compliance with these licenses- or it's knowingly stolen...the mods start taking heat when they moderate with their emotions not their duty, take it from a guy just again logging in again after a ban issued in anger...only to find a ghost town...believe me when i say you'll never get transparency. I just read a mod basically call out uita in "whatever social circle he's in" and very tastelessly degrade him when he can't defend himself- at the end of the day this is the mod's sandbox- i can't even count now how many times I've seen MY statement repeated (take their ball and go home) by multiple mods who obviously read MY feelings on it all- but again, it's your sandbox boys...I've been told half a dozen times now that this is a private site, the mods don't owe us anything for explanations, nor will we get them (at least not truthful ones because no one will admit fault), and that none of this was even acceptable to discuss, not would it be, in public. my response was simply that public outcry would need to be answered eventually and here it is, inevitably, as i predicted. I stood for what i believed to be right, i got banned. Every mod told me i was wrong to even voice an opinion, and how dare that opinion contrast, it was against the rules, if i didn't agree then kick rocks and this 2 week ban will give me time to reflect. Well, that's the same attitude that pushed away a few devs, and even tekhd, apparently, cuz i come back and tekhd, evren, drketan, all have locked threads and are currently ceased development on xda...
Devs will come and go, that's the nature of the beast, but the Note 5 forums you currently see are the results of something else. I've always considered myself to be a rational person very open to hearing out another's side, but all i got was banned and told it ain't a democracy, shut up or get out and stay out. That was my honest experience. Fwiw...
Lam pham said:
The biggest question of me till now is Why @UpInTheAir left the community?
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You haven't know what's secret behind the scenes, so don't ask for the reason....you will never get the answer....
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
haifish9999 said:
You haven't know what's secret behind the scenes, so don't ask for the reason....you will never get the answer....
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
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I hope it's not a case of " Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad". (As in Animal Farm story)
Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
The winter is coming .....
I've been banned myself for well over 3 weeks and I stopped the work I was doing for another phone. The mod thought it was ok to keep deleting my messages and close my thread so I can't say that all the mods are perfect and do the right thing.. Seems more like moderating from emotion or stress... I can understand why he left the community and for those that don't know that doing any type of dev work usually takes hours upon hours, weeks even months just to get something made perfectly and then a moderator bans him and basically made him feel worthless with all the time spent working on stuff.. You'd be mad too if this was done to yourself!!
Rx8Driver said:
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
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If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators. And to add to your character, you just lied about the other account in the PM you sent me and now here you admit to it...so why should anyone believe anything you say? Not trying to argue, but it gets tiresome seeing people post these "Poor me" posts and the "evil moderators" stuff. You don't think it hurts us to see that? We are volunteers just trying to give back to the forums we love so much. We try to keep the drama down because drama is NOT development. But people like to assume things..and usually they are wrong.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
KennyG123 said:
If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
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I don't have any dirty laundry to hide...feel free to Pat anything you got with my name on it, but don't fabricate stuff, and sure you've my permission. And I'm NOT just like everyone else, another short sighted statement since you don't even know me. Also, pm is pm, but the OP asked for the moderators side of the story with all this, yet that wasn't addressed nor was anything other than my acting like a 2yr old....again an unwarranted insult, and another PM attempt to draw me into an argument. Air whatever you like, but know i can and will do the same.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
Rx8Driver said:
I don't have any dirty laundry to hide...feel free to Pat anything you got with my name on it, but don't fabricate stuff, and sure you've my permission. And I'm NOT just like everyone else, another short sighted statement since you don't even know me. Also, pm is pm, but the OP asked for the moderators side of the story with all this, yet that wasn't addressed nor was anything other than my acting like a 2yr old....again an unwarranted insult, and another PM attempt to draw me into an argument. Air whatever you like, but know i can and will do the same.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
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Hi, feel free. Thanks for openly admitting you violated forum rules after the long post stating you were banned for 2 weeks for voicing your opinion. But at least you admitted it finally. I guess your statement that PM is PM, somehow means it is ok to lie to moderators then post how you got wronged..whatever.
As for everyone else in this thread concerned about reality and development...moderators want nothing but more development. We do not run off developers. And as stated we actually invest a lot of our volunteer time in PMs trying to work things out with developers. I have lots of developers that I talked out of leaving and they come to me with their issues...sometimes we can help them...sometimes we can't. In UITA's case. we couldn't because GPL rules over XDA rules. All kernel developers should know this when pulling code from any git. I have had many good conversations with UITA and he came to me often with issues. This time he came to me and asked about the ruling for kernels. I explained it to him and not even sure if he ever read it because he exploded at about the same time. I hope he takes this time to refresh and recharge and considers coming back after his "vacation." But that is up to him. I am here to work with him when he is ready to let him know the boundaries...the same boundaries that every one of the hundreds of kernel developers on XDA deal with.
The best thing to do might be to encourage UITA in PM to relax and work within the system and do what he does best. I can help him to ensure his credits are properly preserved in his commits and in threads. All he has to do is ask.
I will also add, YES i did in fact create an extra account. Plainly and openly...and it's here nor there because the root of the issue wasn't accounts...it was my opinion...creating an account to circumvent a ban is petty...at least when the ban is originally due to a difference of opinion and instead of working thru it whoever actually banned me decided to do that...
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 05:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------
If there's some other dirty laundry i got around here other than testing for devs and working on synapse profiles, and feedback on roms, and helping noobs find their way I'd love to see it...
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 PM ----------
KennyG123 said:
If you want your dirty laundry aired and not the pack of lies about "poor me voicing my opinion" I will be happy to post all your transgressions publicly with your permission. You are just like everyone else that received a short ban, then continued to break rules...it is always the evil moderators. And to add to your character, you just lied about the other account in the PM you sent me and now here you admit to it...so why should anyone believe anything you say? Not trying to argue, but it gets tiresome seeing people post these "Poor me" posts and the "evil moderators" stuff. You don't think it hurts us to see that? We are volunteers just trying to give back to the forums we love so much. We try to keep the drama down because drama is NOT development. But people like to assume things..and usually they are wrong.
As for the rest of the ridiculous comments in this thread...why...why on a development website would ANY moderator chase away a developer? Why...why would the owners allow that? Think about it! We do everything we can to help and work things out with developers...maybe you heard of something we have here...called Private Messaging!!!! Not to mention we have a very lenient system of dealing with rule breaking....people and especially developers get a whole lot of chances before even their first very short ban...then there are several of those before they work themselves into a permanent ban.
The problem is when these developers start demanding that moderators break the rules, or copyright, or licensing agreements just for them. Then they go berserk when moderators don't bend over backwards against licensing just for them, the oh so mighty developers! And somehow you want to blame moderators for their actions, ego and demands. Formats of this site are constantly changing for developers...they get free hosting on DevDB, can set their thread preferences on DevDB. Special Q&A threads were set up for developers so they can concentrate on development in their threads. Developer ONLY forums were created for them to work. I can list dozens of more things done just for developers but none of that matters obviously...only that your developer decided to leave over GPL. No, instead you think out of the 30,000 developers on this site, that the 50 moderators banded together to run off one guy....ludicrous!
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And whoa whoa whoa...i never denied making that account. It's DroidPro35....i NEVER denied that, pm or not.
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------
Lastly, and I'm finished with it is i have every pm between myself and bajanman and between myself and JJD...I'll gladly post them all, i was angrier two weeks ago, but there's nothing in any of them leading up to my ban that wasn't plain and simple language describing what's been transgressing here...and say what you will about uita, yeah he's got a reputation for being harsh, but over the past few months he'd come a long way from when he and i first "met"...I'd say, for him, publicly at least he'd been on his best behavior and even gentle on the noobs and all...
Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------
Rx8Driver said:
Well, just to be perfectly "transparent", i don't even rightfully know how long my original ban was, but i DID just make another account and get an extra, oh i dunno week or something....does that make my bucket of lies an accurate account, @KennyG123 ?
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Did you mean here? Cuz i said DID....like not DIDNT...so like i did...and who cares if i admit it? The ban for that is already over...time served and all that...
I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
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This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
KtownJeff said:
Try telegram.... There is probably 5 or six threads for our devices....
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Seriously? Talk about a lame solution.
jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
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I agree 100%. :good::good::good::good::good:
jadephyre said:
This is the most bland blanket statement being swung around in every ****ing thread. If the developers can not be arsed to actually interact with the community in the forum they posted their ROM in, then they can just stay away entirely. I have no respect for people simply opening a thread and then link people to a telegram group because they are too lazy to actually use a forum.
I'm very tempted to report threads for closure since they appear to be abandoned.
I'd rather have no development than development hiding itself behind a ****ty chat-app.
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I'm sorry you feel this way I was just offering a solution to help you with your issue but you know I do understand because I had the same thought at first but I think it is pretty cool to have real time discussion.....
Also our device is not limited to just this thread..... I spend my day switching ROMs with trebel based GSI....Oh and they get updated security every month and using our device all of the moto gestures show up in the rom because we still use the moto vender..... And if you really want to see some development start reading about compiling kernels..right now Im building a custom kernel for device.....
pastorbob62 said:
I purchased 2 of these phones in April because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA. But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered. I am not a developer, so like most users I rely on those of you who are skilled in that expertise for our custom firmware. But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
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maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious
Lupask said:
maybe you could become a developer yourself and show us how it should be done?
which in case of Motorola is to develop software for like 10 devices a year + interact on forums etc. + try to solve all kinds of people's problems
all in your free time, not being paid for anything
Now I'm curious
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I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.
The problem is that too many users don't even know what they're doing. They do not want to acquire knowledge themselves and expect a solution and an explanation for everything.
By now I say to many users here they should inform themselves. This forum can provide help with problems, but cannot explain everything to everyone. The most common questions here are "I have a bootloop", "what does
encryption mean and why I'm not able to access my data", "why TWRP should only be booted and why does flashing to recovery fail", "should I install TWRP again after I updated my device" and so on... There is currently a user who is trying to mount TWRP in Windows and tells me at the same time that he has already rooted various devices.
Somewhere in between is a single user of 20 with a real problem but he doesn't get noticed.
pastorbob62 said:
I knew the second I wrote my original post some clueless person would come back in defense of poor support and lack of interaction playing the "developers are overworked and do it for nothing" card. And then there is the ever present "if you don't like the way it's done do the developing yourself" joker. But it doesn't fly when somebody posts 3 or 4 ROMs and then totally ignores all questions and issues within this forum not just for days but for weeks and months. How about focusing on 1 ROM and dealing with it rather than over extending oneself and dealing with nothing? As I said, this is the first device I have seen this type of poor support and neglect. That is because on all of my previous 5 MOTOROLA, 2 Asus, 1 Huaweii, and 3 Samsung devices the developers stayed focused on 1 or 2 ROMS and didn't try to recreate the world. And in all of those cases I and many other users donated generously to the developers. Doing a lousy job at something you commit to and then saying "I don't get paid anyway" is not excusable. And defending the poor support and lousy interactions with those lame excuses just makes you a part of the problem. As I said in my post, it is simply a reflection of the attitudes in the world around us.
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But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.
Lupask said:
But this is a different issue. I can't and will not defend that someone creates a ROM, publishes it and forgets about it. And then another, and another. I am also sad that dev's time is spent/wasted on something useless at the end of the day, while they could help to develop something actually alive. I am also sad that there are numberless modifications and tinkering, all of them dealing with similar bugs and problems, while having minimal differences, and not uniting together to create something larger than the sum of all these parts.
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Agree 100%. That is basically what my post is trying to address.
Lupask said:
And yes, , your original post did sound like whining at other people that they don't create enough software for *your* specific phone and help you solve your specific problems while giving zero effort to solve them yourself. Which is, sadly, a common attitude indeed.
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Good heavens no! If you look at my history and go back the 7 years I have been here, you would find that I have been and will remain very active in helping others and solving my own problems. I have taken part in Alpha and Beta testing for developers. Have I gotten lazy on occasion and asked before searching? Sure. Who hasn't? But that is most definitely not my standard mode of operation. I make it a habit to search and research as much as possible before I ask.
Lupask said:
As for me, I don't want to depend on people from XDA to do something that your phone manufacturer was paid to do - if you want support, ask it from there. The phones are not as popular to attract lots of independent development (I believe Motorola is partly to blame here, as they spam the market with too many devices). I'm afraid this is all we got.
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I agree, unless you are dealing with issues brought on by unlocking, rooting and installing custom software/roms. Go to Motorola and ask a question about those issues and you will get shut down immediately. "Sorry! Your warranty is void and we can't help you. And many users (like myself) buy models not available in the USA so there is no support from Motorola at the get go.
That is the whole purpose of XDA. Community support and development. Granted, there are those who will abuse it and not make any effort whatsoever to find the answer and fix it themselves. They deserve to be ignored. But if you put a mod or rom or app on here then by golly, at least support it.
I believe we are pretty much on the same page just took a couple of exchanges to get here. :good:
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---------- Post added at 02:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:57 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.
---------- Post added at 02:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 PM ----------
I reached a point where I basically gave up. I'm not a developer but I like to fiddle with my devices and add a better experience with customizations. I had a Moto G5S and tried to add a custom ROM based on Android 10 but none of them worked well. I spent an absurd amount of time trying to make them work at least in an acceptable way, with no success. I gave up, reinstalled the original 8.1 Android version and moved to a Moto G7 Plus with no root and only GCAM. When I get tired of Android 10, I'll buy a new cellphone with Android 11 or 12.
The lessons I learned are:
- I cannot complain for what I received for free
- I cannot oblige someone to fix for free what is not working for me
- it seems to be increasingly difficult to make things work if you have no access to the internal development of a cellphone's manufacturer
- I will change my purchasing habits: I prefer to buy another device after 1,5 years with the latest Android and hardware specs than fighting to make my 3-yr old device run with a modified system that has no guarantee from the manufacturer.
- I do not have the money to buy expensive devices, I prefer to buy something above the basic and replace it more frequently.
- I respect the developers and I'm not mad at them, I am sure they are learning a lot when creating these custom ROMs and this will take them to a better job (I hope)
- I agree that XDA has changed for worse in the aspect of "community-based development". The interaction in the forum is really going downward, this is the same with other forums I participate. People are moving to "immediate answer" options like whatsapp and Telegram, which I hate because they do not have the organized structure and historic documentation a forum provides.
because there seemed to be a decent support base for it here on XDA.
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You judged and found out you were wrong.
But I have found that the support is lacking and nonexistent in the 3 months since I bought them. Custom ROMS have been posted, only to be left in limbo. Questions from users go totally ignored and unanswered.
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How much exactly did you pay that made you entitled to this kind of support?
But I have to say that in the 7 years I have been a member here I have never seen such poor interaction from the developers.
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You do not really have to say anything but forums are there for anyone to speak his mind. Even people who think they are entitled to stuff they actually aren't
I guess this forum has just become a reflection of the current attitudes lack of respect and concern in the world that exists today.
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Lack of respect. REALLY?
Get off your high horse!
Your post itself is a reflection of another trend:
Unfounded entitlement.