I will not state the obvious with the exception of this: If you can not root a device much less install a custom recovery, development essentially means absolutely nothing to you.. In this case what is the new definition of open source? "Open source" made android what is today.
All opinions from different perpectives are welcome--but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thanks....
EDIT: I firmly believe that xda members must be patient. However, there must also be a realistic reckoning. That is to say--hypothetically speaking--if it takes five years to create an exploit, for all practical purposes one could consider that bootloader impregnable considering the exponential pace of technological advancement. So, if one is measured in their assessment and comments, it is closer to the truth and a heck of a lot more useful to talk in terms of "X" device has a bootloader that can not be unlocked. If for example the S4 is "cracked" say--three years from now, will anyone care? Will development restart? Finally, like with any choice, it's up to the individual to decide what can be considered "hard locked." For me, I guessed that the S4 would be leaked an unlock after the S5 came to market. Obviously my reasoning was wrong. At any rate, my ship has sailed--I can be patient no more.
But remember here we are assuming for the sake of a discussion that these bootloaders will not be exploited and if that is the case will that spread to the point that US development dies on the vine.
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.
LoSt180 said:
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.
numbR7 said:
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
T-Mobile is unlockable the HTC One M8 is unlockable, AT&T and Verizon S5 variants are not unlockable - we can't unlock them.
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, givit helpsng hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more. I think it's good you emphasize the truth as I helps newer people understand.
eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.
cstayton said:
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, when I said 'it will not happen' i was referring to the 'anytime soon' statement.
I agree that saying "it's coming soon" is probably not the best phrase to use. However, to say it will never happen is just as bad. It simply did not and has not happened as fast as we want it to. There is always someone smarter when it comes to computers and software. I am sure the devs have a life outside of hacking a phone for us and everyone needs to be patient. Plus the fact with the Knox security, I am sure the devs want to find all possible work arounds. Just my opinion though...
Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S5.
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
I love to use custom Roms etc.However when you buy a phone, buy it for what it is not for what you want it to be later on. The fact that there is no root is what keeps me using my GS4 more than this phone but the S5 is a solid Device, has great battery life (for me at least) and gets everything I need done. Its a matter of being patient especially for any who own the 4 and know how Samsung and ATT locked the previous iteration of this phone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app
baldwyn said:
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain how these so-called "idiots" are the reason AT&T and Verizon "had" to lock down the devices. I don't understand.
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
baldwyn said:
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Yes - I get that statement. But, how are they protecting themselves. That is, how are they harmed by these "idiots?" Further, if one were to extrapolate users from population, roughly 96% of mobile phone users in the world don't seem to pose a significant problem to thier carriers as it is only the NA carriers that do this ("hard" lock the bootloader). Then, futher hone that to say maybe 1.5%, at the most, US users root their phones. Then narrow further by device. If these numbers are even close--how many of these "idiots" are there. You've been around long enough to know some of the so-called "idiots" were accomplished developers. I do not want to argue with you. I am genuinely intetested in why you see it this way.
rachelm920 said:
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol
numbR7 said:
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm so god damn sick of this OTA sh... I was at work and it rebooted and started installing by itself. I tried to pop the battery but no matter what I do it continues the installation.
I'm moving to T-Mobile. Thanks ATT!
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to whom I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get them infected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
baldwyn said:
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to who. I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get thefected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's cool. Posts are often taken wrong or worded differently than someone else is used to talking. I see your point. It makes sense. I may be a little too jaded (to put it nicely) to let them off the hook that easily though. Lol.
After my purchase of the new Samsung galaxy s5 on AT&T I will state that this will be my last carrier specific purchase,
My girlfriend has the HTC M8 (I had one also but hated the freaking pics from the camera).
This was another example of lesson learned, I will from now on purchase nexus devices or not locked to a carrier specific devices, or Google play edition devices from now on.
No more jumping the gun paying full retail to get phones on release day screw that. Lesson has been learned here for sure.
I am thinking on sending my Galaxy S5 into http://www.maxback.com and then purchasing a nexus 5, then later this year when the new nexus is available,I can pick one of them up.. But im kind of stuck as I love the camera on the s5.... this is what is holding me up...
Sure we and disable the bloatware on the Samsung and all that fun stuff, but there is a world of difference when all those items are gone
Thanks to the awesome developers here on XDA making some kickass roms for us.
I run the kingkat on my girlfriends HTC m8 from the HTC forums and it is so much faster with all of the bloatware and features she was never going to use gone.. that m8 is night and day in speed difference and usability..
Bottom line If we are here we have the mindset to tinker and to tinker on these devices WE need to stop buying locked down phones..
Related
Still trying to get then to publicly announce this, but my contact within HTC (my business buys hundreds of devices a year) says its all AT&T. He said maybe someday, but chance it'll happen within 3 months is zero. Take it for what you will.
gtkansan said:
Still trying to get then to publicly announce this, but my contact within HTC (my business buys hundreds of devices a year) says its all AT&T. He said maybe someday, but chance it'll happen within 3 months is zero. Take it for what you will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who is your contact? Can he leak the info we need for an unlock?
He doesn't have the needed codes. Or even the key signer. I asked. Said to say he wished he could help. Been working with me for 4 years, I believe him
gtkansan said:
He doesn't have the needed codes. Or even the key signer. I asked. Said to say he wished he could help. Been working with me for 4 years, I believe him
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He doesnt know anyone that can help?
I got the direct line to some vp's. Calling in a bit to complain directly.
This was predictable. AT&T are a bunch of a$$es and HTC are a bunch of idiots to let AT&T do this to them.
slapshot30 said:
This was predictable. AT&T are a bunch of a$$es and HTC are a bunch of idiots to let AT&T do this to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, guess that solved my issue. Exchanging for a white Skyrocket now.
Sent from HTC Vivid!
slapshot30 said:
This was predictable. AT&T are a bunch of a$$es and HTC are a bunch of idiots to let AT&T do this to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been hypothesizing that it was moreso AT&T's fault, as compared with HTC's, as they've been relatively responsive about getting their other carrier bootloader unlocks out relatively promptly.
AT&T's had it against Android from day 1, choosing not to carry high-end devices, then lagging behind on updates on high-end devices, then not letting us sideload apps, and now this. It really wouldn't surprise me that AT&T is the primary culprit.
Look, the international Raider and the Bell/Rogers variants all got their dues very quickly; HTC is clearly not holding back on their part in terms of getting these devices unlocked. Since our hardware is literally identical to the Rogers one (radio bands and all), I don't see why there's any reason to keep ours locked while Rogers doesn't have this issue. There's only one variable here, and it's clearly the carrier.
Wasn't Rogers part of an ATT venture at one point? They're worthy of commendation that they didn't inherit these ridiculous business practices.
Aus_Azn said:
I've been hypothesizing that it was moreso AT&T's fault, as compared with HTC's, as they've been relatively responsive about getting their other carrier bootloader unlocks out relatively promptly.
AT&T's had it against Android from day 1, choosing not to carry high-end devices, then lagging behind on updates on high-end devices, then not letting us sideload apps, and now this. It really wouldn't surprise me that AT&T is the primary culprit.
Look, the international Raider and the Bell/Rogers variants all got their dues very quickly; HTC is clearly not holding back on their part in terms of getting these devices unlocked. Since our hardware is literally identical to the Rogers one (radio bands and all), I don't see why there's any reason to keep ours locked while Rogers doesn't have this issue. There's only one variable here, and it's clearly the carrier.
Wasn't Rogers part of an ATT venture at one point? They're worthy of commendation that they didn't inherit these ridiculous business practices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that would be Bell, but they are still really good to Android. Anyways, only Samsung from now on, since Samsung has the balls to tell them off.
Sent from HTC Vivid!
Longcat14 said:
Well, guess that solved my issue. Exchanging for a white Skyrocket now.
Sent from HTC Vivid!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
you waited until after EvilDevnull decides to help before you bail?
ClippinWings said:
Really?
you waited until after EvilDevnull decides to help before you bail?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh Evil has been 'on the verge' of unlock for the 3D and Rezound for weeks and weeks that I have been following. Can never tell up from down, cant wait on a chance in case it never comes.
Truthfully all things considered you can't say it will Never happen because someone some where will come with a way to unlock the device. Whether it winds up being HTC themselves that leak something just to get sales up or some dev doing it there will be an unlock method sooner or later, just a matter of time and patience. Have yet to see any android device that exists that has not been able to be rooted and get the Bootloader unlocked.
ClippinWings said:
Really?
you waited until after EvilDevnull decides to help before you bail?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tweeted him long before people found out. He said he's going to do a few devices after the Rezound, then us. Sure, we can probably do something with the Rezound, but I'm not used to HTC devices anyways, kind of a brand thing.
Anyways, enjoy your Vivid, I know I will until my Skyrocket gets here.
<Removed>
Aus_Azn said:
AT&T's had it against Android from day 1, choosing not to carry high-end devices, then lagging behind on updates on high-end devices, then not letting us sideload apps, and now this. It really wouldn't surprise me that AT&T is the primary culprit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, every time I'm in an Att store all they talk about is the iphone and apple.
Even back when the HD2 came out and had a processor twice the speed of the the iphone at that time they were still touting it's superiority.
I was a bit surprised to see everyone in the att store when I went in to pick up my vivid with one. Apparently the store in my area were switching their employee phones from windows phones to Android phones and they were all going nuts and excited about the Vivid.
Anyways, I knew it was att that was preventing the unlocking, they have pretty much always been sticklers about things like this especially if it can insure their bloatware staying on our phones.
Sounds like we should keep up the pressure.
StrangeShadow said:
Yup, every time I'm in an Att store all they talk about is the iphone and apple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that the truth. When I told them I was considering the 4s or an Android phone they said 99% of the people who were using Apple and went to android end up bringing the phone back and switching to the 4s.
I couldn't believe how much bashing they gave to android. If I ever hear one of them saying anything again I am going to politely explain: "Does the iPhone come with any AT&T bloatware installed? No? Does every Android device? Yes. Remove your **** apps and people will like android more and the phones will run better."
... ... ...
bconover93 said:
Nowadays you can uninstall the bloatware AND sideload apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh, what?
The former, not without aftermarket tweaks. The latter, yes.
Don't try to praise AT&T here, it's not going to fly. They still are monumentally iBiased.
EDIT: I just checked Evil's site on this. Regardless of his accomplishments, I don't think I'd ever consider donating to him. He carries himself like a total <insert expletive here> as the most important developer in the world. Reading the thread was painful.
Aus_Azn said:
Uh, what?
The former, not without aftermarket tweaks. The latter, yes.
Don't try to praise AT&T here, it's not going to fly. They still are monumentally iBiased.
EDIT: I just checked Evil's site on this. Regardless of his accomplishments, I don't think I'd ever consider donating to him. He carries himself like a total <insert expletive here> as the most important developer in the world. Reading the thread was painful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If he is the guy who gets s-off for the vivid.... He IS the most important developer in the world as far as I am concerned
Sent from my HTC Vivid using Tapatalk
Few things I want to get straight, I in no way shape or form tampered with this device. I am an AT&T employee and came across this while setting a customer up with his new S5. This is how it came brand new sealed out of the box. Also, I understand the photo is blurry. This is due to the fact that the screen did not stay up long. I snapped as fast as I could before I had to take it back because it was actually extremely buggy and kept freezing. Just felt the need to to share with the guys. Looks like some are being missed in the lock down lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
bnicsk8guy said:
Few things I want to get straight, I in no way shape or form tampered with this device. I am an AT&T employee and came across this while setting a customer up with his new S5. This is how it came brand new sealed out of the box. Also, I understand the photo is blurry. This is due to the fact that the screen did not stay up long. I snapped as fast as I could before I had to take it back because it was actually extremely buggy and kept freezing. Just felt the need to to share with the guys. Looks like some are being missed in the lock down lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you tell what software version its running?
That doesn't mean the bootloader is unlocked. It simply means that the devices scanning utility (SysScope it was called on the S4) detected a change to a file. In the case of the phone you had, it sounds like it was probably do to a faulty board or failing software in a bad unit. The S4s are known to show "custom" for absolutely no reason at all or because of something on the SD card. It usually reverted back to official after a couple of reboots. I'm not trying to be confrontational by asking this, but how can you be an AT&T employee and not know this? Like I said, this question is not a personal attack, but I am wondering if AT&T gives any training on how these devices work in real life and not just on the shelf. Either way, I promise you the bootloader is still locked on that device. The unlocked symbol and custom have nothing at all to do with the bootloader.
Mine shows that also
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
pingfl00d said:
Mine shows that also
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too. Still not exactly sure what it means unless it's the developer options being enabled.
Edit: Just checked and it's not the developer options...and mine doesn't have the unlock icon anymore actually. I think scott14719 is probably right.
nizbot said:
Me too. Still not exactly sure what it means unless it's the developer options being enabled.
Edit: Just checked and it's not the developer options...and mine doesn't have the unlock icon anymore actually. I think scott14719 is probably right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm right. If you want more information about it you can search the AT&T S4 forum for relevant threads. There really is a lot of information about it that might answer a lot of potential questions.
scott14719 said:
That doesn't mean the bootloader is unlocked. It simply means that the devices scanning utility (SysScope it was called on the S4) detected a change to a file. In the case of the phone you had, it sounds like it was probably do to a faulty board or failing software in a bad unit. The S4s are known to show "custom" for absolutely no reason at all or because of something on the SD card. It usually reverted back to official after a couple of reboots. I'm not trying to be confrontational by asking this, but how can you be an AT&T employee and not know this? Like I said, this question is not a personal attack, but I am wondering if AT&T gives any training on how these devices work in real life and not just on the shelf. Either way, I promise you the bootloader is still locked on that device. The unlocked symbol and custom have nothing at all to do with the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T provides training that is optional for new devices, but there is an article released with relevant information to sell the phone. They do not train employees to check bootloaders, for root, for knox warranty, etc. None of my coworkers know what a bootloader is or what it means to be locked or unlocked. Edit: No training provided by AT&T mentions root, jailbreak, bootloaders, etc etc.
To be on topic, after I switched to ART, the Custom unlocked pad came up, when I switched back to Dalvik, the Custom unlocked padlock went away.
I am also an AT&T COR store employee and none of my coworkers know about that kinda stuff. Not a lick of training is given on that.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
I'll try not to take offense to that....lol. No AT&T does no training for these things. And to be honest with you I am usually pretty knowledgeable when it comes to these things. I have been out of the Samsung scene for a while ( Due to me using my more developer friendly Nexus 5 or my new HTC One M8) so I am now unfamiliar with how these devices handle certain things. I have yet to do anything like change my runtime on the device do to the fact that it only made minor performance changes to my Nexus 5. If I would have I probably would have gotten the same boot screen and then eventually thought nothing of it. Just had a little moment of excitement while on the job lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
bnicsk8guy said:
I'll try not to take offense to that....lol. No AT&T does no training for these things. And to be honest with you I am usually pretty knowledgeable when it comes to these things. I have been out of the Samsung scene for a while ( Due to me using my more developer friendly Nexus 5 or my new HTC One M8) so I am now unfamiliar with how these devices handle certain things. I have yet to do anything like change my runtime on the device do to the fact that it only made minor performance changes to my Nexus 5. If I would have I probably would have gotten the same boot screen and then eventually thought nothing of it. Just had a little moment of excitement while on the job lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely no offence intended. I just wish AT&T, Bestbuys, etc... would do a better job of training the people that they expect to sell these devices. Most people don't know the everyday quirks of most devices unless they are given an oppertunity to learn about them.
scott14719 said:
Definitely no offence intended. I just wish AT&T, Bestbuys, etc... would do a better job of training the people that they expect to sell these devices. Most people don't know the everyday quirks of most devices unless they are given an oppertunity to learn about them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Careful what you wish for!! Last thing I need is someone checking whether my Knox has been tripped or my bootloader unlocked when I do a return :laugh:
As AT&T employees you better get ahold of some higher ups, and let them know they are going to lose lots of customers due to the lock down on their bootloaders of their devices. Many people are ready to switch.
pcidiot said:
As AT&T employees you better get ahold of some higher ups, and let them know they are going to lose lots of customers due to the lock down on their bootloaders of their devices. Many people are ready to switch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they don't care and anything this guy says will most likely anything this guy says will be ignored
cyberace1985 said:
they don't care and anything this guy says will most likely anything this guy says will be ignored
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to me they should care, they could lose 100's if not 1000's over the next 4 years.
pcidiot said:
Seems to me they should care, they could lose 100's if not 1000's over the next 4 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But in the grand scheme of things 100 to thousands isn't that big of a loss. for an example with the s5 I can almost guarantee we are just a small subset of s5 owners the largest portion will never know what root is or have any idea what to do with it. The money they take from the larger portion will cover the expected returns from the 1% who are upset and or mad that they locked the BL.
cyberace1985 said:
But in the grand scheme of things 100 to thousands isn't that big of a loss. for an example with the s5 I can almost guarantee we are just a small subset of s5 owners the largest portion will never know what root is or have any idea what to do with it. The money they take from the larger portion will cover the expected returns from the 1% who are upset and or mad that they locked the BL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right partially but grand scheme of things = all of their devices that are locked not just s5's. I am just saying that, they are always seeming to pull more customers in with new deals so gaining customers is important to them. So not losing customers should also be important in the same aspect no matter what the percentage is. If they don't care then shame on them.
pcidiot said:
Your right partially but grand scheme of things = all of their devices that are locked not just s5's. I am just saying that, they are always seeming to pull more customers in with new deals so gaining customers is important to them. So not losing customers should also be important in the same aspect no matter what the percentage is. If they don't care then shame on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They would love to get everyone 100% satisfied but realistically its impossible so they shoot for the highest number of satisfied people
pcidiot said:
Seems to me they should care, they could lose 100's if not 1000's over the next 4 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Who are they going to switch to? Tmobile? Tmobile will be locking down their bootloader as soon as they get the chance. Only reason why they haven't already is because they need as many customers as they can get. Same reason they kept downloader booster...even though they can't afford to keep it. Not to mention, the average user doesn't give a crap about bootloaders or download boosters.
I got the custom message after applying ART.
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cyberace1985 said:
But in the grand scheme of things 100 to thousands isn't that big of a loss. for an example with the s5 I can almost guarantee we are just a small subset of s5 owners the largest portion will never know what root is or have any idea what to do with it. The money they take from the larger portion will cover the expected returns from the 1% who are upset and or mad that they locked the BL.
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You are right I seen an older couple at the att store buying both s5's and it looked like they did not know anything about root. Etc. They are buying the device because of its features and camera. Not saying older people don't mess with the bootloader or anything.
MOTO X SLAPPED
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we NEED the bootloader unlocked in order to achieve root it just makes it a hell of a lot easier. I believe the Note 3 on certain carriers still has the bootloader locked but someone was able to find a vulnerability and used that to get root. But I do share your concern as many carriers are offering upgrades after a year and most developers and obviously users get new devices with their upgrade.
Correct, we don't need an unlock bootloader to have root, but, Kitkat update has patch all the vulnerabilities that were use in previous devices like the S4 and Note 3, currently all Note3 shipped with KitKat are stock with no root because of that. I personally think that root will not be achieved on the S5 (Verizon and AT&T), the Note 3 has been on the market way longer than the S5 and the bootloader still locked and root is thing of the past if the Device was shipped with KK from factory.
Besides most of the Devs are researchers and get better recognition/$$$ by giving the exploits to manufactures instead of making it public. Other Devs just like to make it for Fun, but with the locked bootloader there is not much fun but a lot of work instead, and since no everybody that pledges actually pays is not worth it for them to actually work on getting root for a device you can get unlocked on other networks (ex. T-Mo). If all S5 were to be shipped with a locked bootloader, you would had root by now.
Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.
I'm really regretting my purchase of the S5 without having root, and to hear that it may never come is really concerning.
Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?
The carriers are getting work and ideas from us, then adding those features to the phones. Then locking them up (Bootloaders, No Root) because - Like Kenny says, they want to be more secure for corporations. Some people use root for bad things like (Not paying for apps and Xposed modules blocking ads, and other things that they don't want us doing) I use root for LONG LASTING BATTERY LIFE and getting rid of bloatware apps running in the background I dont even use. Yes, it sucks we can't do the things we use to but, they have made it so we can Turn Off apps, Long Lasting battery with the Ultra Power Save feature, etc......(Things we did with root are now coming on the phone >Stole those ideas from us<
EDIT: LETS GO KINGO, YOU CAN DO IT !!!!!! Maybe soon Kingo can produce a root option. That would be awesome. I'm not leaving At&t, been there for 18 years. Great coverage and customer service has been awesome to me !!!
Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app
LoopingCreeper said:
Don't need root for getting apps for free. Ever heard of Aptoide?
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app
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Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.
LuckyColdJohnson said:
Well, you know what I mean. They don't want us to have Root Access. You can do a lot of things with root man.
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Click to collapse
I know what your mean. Freedom can be used to get in app purchaces for free. That is kinda getting apps for free and it requires root.
Sent from my stock, untouched Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 7.0 on the xda-developers app
For me, ans more of a power user, the Root abilities were to get a smooother better battery life custom solution. I used Adaway and some apps for better performance. Other than that, root didnt mean much to me. I do miss the rebel aspect of it and that alone rather makes me wish I had bought the HTC M8 instead of the S5 last week.
Best of luck to the Devs that find us a root or AT&T to provide unlocking.
I'm with you guys. I'm just out to up my battery life, remove ads (admittedly. Can you blame me?), and have a few hardware changes, like reassigning buttons, switching music with my volume keys and such.
Biggest want? Titanium backup. I relied on that app more than I'd like to admit, as well as TWRP or ClockWork (depending on the phone/ROM I was using at the time).
It's just nice to be free with something I bought full price, SO I COULD HAVE THE FREEDOM TO DO WHAT I WANTED WITH IT.
Either way, We'll see what happens. All I want is root permissions.
Here's a curious thought, though. The AT&T S4 isn't rooted, but they have a workaround (loki mod). Anyone know if something like that is in the works for us?
I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.
I'm personally getting ready to purchase another device, I love my GS5 even tho it isn't rooted but I'm just not liking the size of it. I got it for $10 with my team member discount but I think I'm going to either get a T-Mobile one or European S5. Idk I want to stay with Samsung but this whole locked phone thing is discouraging.
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LuckyColdJohnson said:
I agree. Hopefully we will get an Root option (Maybe Kingo will come through again like with the Note 3) but their saying nobody has a root option for 4.4 on At&t phones. Don't see much talk about almost getting there as well. Chainfire was also saying that new Android firmware is about to start breaking root apps. 4.4.3 and on could be the start to the end of custom roms and root for Samsung devices (At&t). I too thought about going with an HTC device, I just love the S5's camera. I don't know what to think about these new phones man. It was so much fun installing and customizing our phones how we wanted to. Its sad and depressing watching these loved things go away. I'm not on my phone as much anymore.
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That's the only reason I kept and probably will keep my Nexus 5...
Colerunn said:
I might be speaking out of an uninformed thought here, but I'm concerned about our root status.
With the bounty being as high as it is, and me not being able to find anywhere that the Devs are collaborating, what are the odds it is taking so long (or even might NOT happen) because there is no developer collaboration for the insanely high bounty? I could be wrong, but I'm starting to wonder if that's the right way to go about it.
Then there's the concern that if we do achieve root, it'll be so late in the game that no one will be developing for our S5 at that point and will have moved on to another device.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen maybe one or two times since I've been a member of XDA where a bounty worked achieve root or an unlocked bootloader. Honestly, I doubt many of the devs who work on that type of stuff bought an AT&T S5. If it was me, I would have gone T-Mobile or International, as I'm sure most have.
Also, as someone said above, not everyone pays their pledges. The longer a bounty lasts, the bigger chance people who have pledged early have moved on or are not following anymore. I'm willing to bet that if a bounty was close to 2K, the most a dev could hope for is maybe $500, if their lucky. That's still quite a bit of money, but no where near what was pledged. Past experiences dictate present actions.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
---------- Post added at 04:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------
KennyG123 said:
These are legitimate concerns that should have you reevaluating your next purchase based on carrier and manufacturer. The goal is to make AT&T and Verizon phones secure enough for the military and business accounts. That is where the big bucks lie for those carriers. Sprint and T-mobile are more geared towards the average pedestrian with their lower price plans and limited coverage, therefore do not worry about locked bootloaders and super secure phones. Other manufacturers such as HTC provide unlock to those seeking it and root has been very easy.
As for developer discussions regarding root...you have seen what the bounty threads turn into...with all that bickering and name calling it is not conducive to a development environment, so those people actually hampered progress. I am sure discussions are going on in private in some IRC channel without the needless interruptions and constant requests for ETA and "Are we there yet." And as mentioned there is a lot more $$$ in the private sectors rather than claim a half bounty and have a free root available.
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The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
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Skizzy034 said:
The carriers should make separate phones for consumers and businesses. That would be great.
Sent from my VK810 4G using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.
KennyG123 said:
Some do...sort of...they are called developer's editions and you usually have to wait a few months for their release.
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Click to collapse
Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks
Colerunn said:
Welp, sounds like it's time for me to bite the bullet then. I'm thinking I'll post my phone to Craigslist as looking to sell or trade for a T-mobile version. Worse-comes-to-worst, I'll ebay the phone for what I can get, and pay out of pocket the difference for a new one.
Raises a new question: international version or just a different U.S. carrier's?
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Click to collapse
MetroPCS S5 for $649+ $30 unlock code from cellunlocker-dot-net and you have a wide open west device ready for custom recovery/roms, the works. Also will be carrier unlocked and completely unbranded. Radio has all the LTE bands for TMO and ATT, LTE works. Was using Alliance Rom at the time.
I did sell mine and picked up an M8. Just prefer the feel in hand, 32GB (what was SEC thinking 16GB on a top tier device!) and of course the IPS LCD just looks better to my old, tired eyes than the SuperAMOLED+. Of course everyone's preferences are different.
If you're a night owl and prefer full darkness viewing the AMOLED displays can't be beat. Using LUX I was able to turn down the brightness to just about nothing and the contrast is still outstanding. LCDs (of course) wash out since they do have finite limits of contrast at low levels...
But in normal environments, wow, the IPS display looks spectacular...
In any case, expecting root on an ATT device these days is probably going to lead to major disappointment. Personally, I'd rather use an iOS device than a locked bootloader device (S4/S5).
When you're used to having the freedom of root and can no longer do the things you get used to it's like a punishment, having virtual shackles around your feet and expected to run a 10K on a day with 80 degree dewpoints. Oh yes and with a family of hungry black bears right behind you...
LuckyColdJohnson said:
Hey KennyG, I just got the s5 Active, will y'all be opening up a thread for that soon? Thanks
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Not really needed if it is just as locked down and basically same hardware will see how it goes.
I've been out of the Android game for a while now, my last device was a 1st gen Motorola Droid, Android 1.6. I'm coming back because I like the granular access the environment provides and I want the ability to tighten controls on my privacy, including UFED/XRY protection, and future IMSI detection/protection. Android just feels more relevant now than it did a few years back.
The iPhone spoiled me in terms of build quality and finish; I like metal, I like glass and I dislike plastic immensely... That said, the only two phones that look at all interesting are the M9 and the S6 Edge... I've preordered a Gold S6 Edge that will ship in a few weeks time. Between the two, in my eyes, there's really no comparison... I like how uncluttered touchwiz looks; I dislike Sense very much. The S6 screen blows the M9 out of the water, basically I'm just very enamored with the phone, the M9 almost completely bores me... I don't care about boom sound. At all.
I should mention I've been on Verizon for about a decade.
That said. I've been reading about older models (S4, S5, Note) trying to get a handle on the development situation and it doesn't look promising. I'm confident the S6 will be rooted, I know not everyone is, but I'm concerned that Samsung's bootloader and Exynos architecture are going to complicate the hell out of modding this phone.
I don't NEED custom ROM's (though I would love CM12) but I do need root. Running xposed/xprivacy, AFWall+ and other such apps demand it. So what's the general opinion? I don't have a feel for the community or the history anymore and that's why I'm asking... Are these concerns warranted or does probability say we'll move past them and the S6 will be a fine choice... Input welcomed.
I wouldn't buy it expecting root any time soon (maybe not at all?).
I'll give the same advice I always give to someone that says they 'need root'...
Never buy a phone until AFTER root had been discovered/released. Period.
Phones are getting harder and harder to root, especially on devices with locked boot loaders.
I would agree with the previous poster...if root is a must I would tread with caution. The Samsung Note 4 has about $40,000 in combined bounties available for root & for not tripping KNOX, neither has been achieved yet......see thread linked below.....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/note-4-verizon/general/bounty-verizon-note-4-root-whos-t2916685
I thought they already achieved root in the Samsung S6 edge forum. Not Verizon, but the general s6 edge forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3056631
Sent from my SM-G925V using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
V-Ty said:
I thought they already achieved root in the Samsung S6 edge forum. Not Verizon, but the general s6 edge forum
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3056631
Sent from my SM-G925V using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
thats because the international variant does not have a locked bootloader.
Sent from my SM-G925V using XDA Free mobile app
Right! I know our bootloader will never be unlocked but I think we will achieve root sooner then later. Obviously this is all guessing on my behalf but I think this phone is a popular phone and if some of the big developers buy this phone it will have a good chance of root. I know the story of the note 4 cause I just gave it to my wife and checked daily thinking it might be the day of root. But I don't think any of the top developers had a note 4. This is again not a statement of facts, just my guessing. Hopefully I'm right!
Sent from my SM-G925V using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2
Honestly that was my hope as well. I figured that since the Note was more of a niche device than the S6 will be, combined with the Chainfire deal already out, that we might have something here... It sucks, I don't hop devices often, so I put a lot of effort researching them and what I might be left with is beautiful but root SOL or good to go but boring One M9.
All I'm saying is that you don't buy a phone for what it MIGHT do in the future.
If you NEED root, you buy a phone that already has it. Period.
My understanding is that as of this past February ALL cell phones must be SIM/bootloader unlocked according to the law.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/0...u-sim-unlock-your-phone-heres-the-fine-print/
jaseman said:
My understanding is that as of this past February ALL cell phones must be SIM/bootloader unlocked according to the law.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/0...u-sim-unlock-your-phone-heres-the-fine-print/
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Click to collapse
That's only talking about SIM unlocked devices.
jaseman said:
My understanding is that as of this past February ALL cell phones must be SIM/bootloader unlocked according to the law.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I understand, all cellphones must have the ability to unlock the SIM (NOT the bootloader) after you have paid for the phone. Some carriers will unlock them sooner or don't lock them at all.
But the main point is, the law (according to my knowledge) does not mention "bootloader" at all.
SIM unlocking is what they seem to be talking about.
I think 40,000 got all the big devs to try the Note 4 bro, I've come to the conclusion ROOT IS DEAD. DAMN THE MAN
I would pledge $20 towards a BL unlock or an exploit like on the MDK S4 for the AT&T s6 and s6 edge.
Anyone know of an existing bounty?
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justda said:
I would pledge $20 towards a BL unlock or an exploit like on the MDK S4 for the AT&T s6 and s6 edge.
Anyone know of an existing bounty?
Sent from my SM-G925A using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My guess since no one has unlocked the bootloaders since the S3 updates, then S4, S5, Note 4....many with bounties there, that it is pointless to make another. I believe the assumption is the bootloader lock is similar for them all.
Even if you put $20 million on it, there is no hope.
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ericzhf said:
Even if you put $20 million on it, there is no hope.
来自我的 SAMSUNG-SM-G890A 上的 Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
If you put 20 million in it the carrier may view that as a solid business case to release it themselves.
Without doomcalling...but it feels like XDA is going the way of the dinosaur with respect to carrier phones. With improved general experience, and a tightly locked bootloader, what's there left to do?
I felt so much more into my htc ThunderBolt...we even got important upgrades, like ice cream sandwich, before the masses at Verizon. I wish we could have those days again, but with a more powerful device. I'm still using my S4, which I rooted, then had to unroot due to a faulty charging port warranty claim. I never bothered to re-root...
As a long time PC gamer, it's disheartening to see our devices going this way. The smartphone is essentially the successor to the PC in a lot of ways for many people. And we accept things so hideously controlled...it's like buying a PC with tons of unremovable spyware baked in.
I'd love to see this bootloader cracked. But it's right up there on the list next to restoring our privacy and freedoms...
Dannar said:
Without doomcalling...but it feels like XDA is going the way of the dinosaur with respect to carrier phones. With improved general experience, and a tightly locked bootloader, what's there left to do?
I felt so much more into my htc ThunderBolt...we even got important upgrades, like ice cream sandwich, before the masses at Verizon. I wish we could have those days again, but with a more powerful device. I'm still using my S4, which I rooted, then had to unroot due to a faulty charging port warranty claim. I never bothered to re-root...
As a long time PC gamer, it's disheartening to see our devices going this way. The smartphone is essentially the successor to the PC in a lot of ways for many people. And we accept things so hideously controlled...it's like buying a PC with tons of unremovable spyware baked in.
I'd love to see this bootloader cracked. But it's right up there on the list next to restoring our privacy and freedoms...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way. Back in the days of the HTC Aria And SGS2 it was quite a different experience. Even the LG Optimus G had some cool stuff going on with it being almost an N4 clone, even though it had a relatively small dev community.
Dannar said:
Without doomcalling...but it feels like XDA is going the way of the dinosaur with respect to carrier phones. With improved general experience, and a tightly locked bootloader, what's there left to do?
I felt so much more into my htc ThunderBolt...we even got important upgrades, like ice cream sandwich, before the masses at Verizon. I wish we could have those days again, but with a more powerful device. I'm still using my S4, which I rooted, then had to unroot due to a faulty charging port warranty claim. I never bothered to re-root...
As a long time PC gamer, it's disheartening to see our devices going this way. The smartphone is essentially the successor to the PC in a lot of ways for many people. And we accept things so hideously controlled...it's like buying a PC with tons of unremovable spyware baked in.
I'd love to see this bootloader cracked. But it's right up there on the list next to restoring our privacy and freedoms...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt XDA will become a pool of oil beneath the Earth :silly: but there are major differences between now and "back then." Back then there were lots of leaks and bits of info that got you tars before they were released. Back then XDA had maybe 1 million members, now closing towards 7 million. XDA became popular, carriers started sending in spies as well as manufacturers, plus breakthroughs and leaks here are plastered on front pages of other phone sites. The carriers have tightened security on their leaks. Samsung, Google, etc have hired those known to crack bootloaders and root to prevent anyone else from being able to do it. "We" at XDA are becoming more diverse with more and more premium smart phones being released quarterly. Back then every carrier didn't have a version of the same phone...it trickled with the Note and S2, but blew up to all carriers with the S3 and Note 2. Now with Xposed and root you can do a lot of the things yourself you wanted in custom ROMs..so the developers took another hit on being able to bring things to you that no one else can.
Sorry if I seem like I am rambling on...too much coffee already
Hopefully the next generation of Chainfire, Jcase, Beaups, Geohot....shows up soon with things that can bring back strong development.