Database Develop

Why this GREAT forum just can not help those GREAT freeware makers a better life?

Today, when I went to Sakajati's website to check the release of his new WM6.5 ROM, I was totally depressed and completely lost the mood to flash this brand new ROM, after I read this brief intro:
sakajati
May 4th, 2009 at 5:59 am
Sorry guys for being away, I’ve been under stress due to financial problem. The business is getting worse and worse, I’m afraid I won’t be able to support this website anymore and may also have to sell my device (God I hope this won’t happend). To all hyperdragon users, please consider to support/donate, it may help me so I don’t have to sell this crapy device. Thanks in advance! Enjoy this new rom and let me know for any bugs you found!
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It was exactly the same feeling when yesterday I passed by Mirko Schenk's website and read this:
I aten't ded (12/05/2008, 10:00 PM)
Yeah, I know, I'm a bit slow with updates recently. Somehow, when I wasn't missing free time, all too often I was missing motivation (no, that's not begging for donations) to struggly with the pitfalls of programming after I struggled with them in my job before. And this even though there's currently no girl friend that threadens me when I'd spend more time on my PC than with her. (But admitted, she'd probably wouldn't need to threaden me... )
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Sakajati, a famouse ROM cooker for Kaiser, his Hyperdragon ROM thread in this forum has received 11,178 repplies and 1,574,596 views up to now. Yes, not mistaken, it's more than 1.5 milllion views. Is he brilliant? The numbers speak for themselves.
Mirko Schenk, the name may not much known to public. But if I talk about Mort, every chefs here knows who he is. One of his small programs named 'Mortscript' is now cooked in many of the custom ROMs on this site. Is he brilliant? You can ask every chef here, I guess you'll get the same answer:'Yes, he is VERY brillant.'
These two guys are only examples of many of the brilliant stars here. They all have these two same characters as I know: First, their softwares are all FREE. I.e, they supply free service to pubic without asking any material support from users. Second, I am regret to say, they are all VERY POOR now.
Well, I believe, that the initial puppose of their developing these wares are not for money. I also believe that they would like to continue this cause even if they can not receive one single coin from it, even if they maintain a poor living condition for his own life, they just enjoy it.
On the other hand, have to say this: It is ULTIMATE FORTUNE for a man, that in his life he can find something he likes, he is good at, he did it, and finally he fighted to clime to top of the line. BUT, it is an ULTIMATE UNFORTUNE for him that after he did this, he only found his life is 'worsen and worsen'.
Yes a man's value is not only reallize his own joy, he also has to be responsible for his beloves, his family, his girlfiend, or even his pet. This is the reason they may decide to drop this loved cause and find something else to do. And finally they may be driven out from this society.
Now the question comes: Can we do something to rescue them out of this situation?
Yes, we can donate to their PayPal account.
BUT, to donate to a paypal account is not always convienient for everybody that want to help them.
Actually, there are other much better ways, but the forum rules here does not support it. Like this: Why not allow them to put a simple advertisement on their signature?
Like this one (I found in this thread):
iPhone ... its a maxipad without wings!
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So that viewers can support them by a simple click of their mouse, which will bring a small money for them? Say in Sakajati's case, he has 1.5 million viewers, onlyif 10% of viewers would make a click on the ad, and only if each click can just bring $0.1 for them. That will collect to an amount of $15,000. Which will greatly enhance their life, at lest let them keep the 'crapy device'.
Don't tell me this is impossible for this forum. We have so many super-smart brains here. Actually can set some rules or systems to avoid any 'side effects' of it, like rules on the size, layout, postion, etc of the ad. Who can use it, who can not etc.
Yes, this great forum place should become a worm home for all telents in this line.
MODs: Can you discuss on this issue?

First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.

Chainfire said:
First let me say this is all very sad. Though I never use MortScript, I do sometimes run Sakajati's ROM.
There are unfortunately some issues with what you propose.
While I love XDA-Developers.com (primarily for its people and community), the board owners are not exactly known for 'making things happen'.
Second, clicking ads to "support someone" is a surefire way to get booted from the ad network. This is a definite no in the ad-world and against all regulations. Besides, all this does is move money from businesses who pay for those advertisements to freeware developers, while the users skimp on the cash again, and those who pay for advert gain nothing - you just click to support, not because you are interested in the ad product. So you rise prices for businesses trying to sell something. In turn this will make their products more expensive, you hurt the business and their consumers, and you have gained nothing. Its frowned upon for good reason.
Right now the best and quickest solution is probably still a PayPal rally. Frequent users should simply just donate a few bucks (remember when PayPal'ing, donate at least $2.50 or so or so much will be lost by the money they take, it's hardly worth donating at all). I have been thinking of a solution for this for years, even before I joined the WM community. I may have thought of something but unfortunately right now do not have the time to set up - however it will remain on my to-do list.
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Thank for your attention on tjis issue. There must be a solution for that, at least not 'completely impossible.
But the circut of money in 'ads' industry. Is just like 'everybody follow the rules here'.

Since the activities concerning 'advertising' may become a key factor in judgement of this issue. Here I add some more info. There are books about 'advertisement', or lots of internet materials available, but probably not everyone has time to read it. Let me just tell what is advertisement in this simple way:
The major target of ads is not to reach people who want the product, because people wants it already knows it. It is targeted to those people who doesn't want it, or even doesn't know it. Advertisement will let them know the product, and MAKE (sorry I use this word) them reallize that they want it.
This is why ads sponsors would be glad to pay even for a mouse click and a slight glance at what they are advertising. At least this make the clicker have a short memery about their brand name, or their product idea.
After read this, you may feel somehow uncomfortble about 'ads'. But sorry, this is just the prevailing commercial activity.

Please Post Your Comments on This Issue!
Anybody pass by here and reading this, if you have some opinion, comments, or different idea about this issue, please post here.
Maybe you are freeware developer, or commercial software developer, or common user, or moderator, it doesn't matter. What I'm thinking about is not trying to persuade the forum board to issue a new advertising policy, really need to be concerned is how to help those GREAT freeware developers OUT. Avertisement is just the best way that I can figure out by myself. But maybe you guys have better idea about this issue.
Here appeal to everybody:
If you are using a freeware, and find it's really helpful, or may bring additional conveineince and joy to your life. Please think about the life of the developer of the freeware. And first please consider a DONATION to them, if you can not, please think about what else you can do.​
Everybody please leave your voice here, maybe we can work out a way together!

Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.

Chainfire said:
Also put a post about up on myblog (spam, not finished yet). Who knows maybe it will even help.
I'll be making a serious donation myself. I hope others will do the same.
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Certainly yours will be a nice place with lots of chef want to take a look. I went there and found some projects not known to me in the past. Before I only know WMWifiRouter's from you, later WMLongLife, but that's already enough to call you a Master. Now you're master++.
Also noted that you already sent donation confirmation code on Sakajati's site.
You built a nice blog.

[A THOUGHT] Copying in an Open Community

Android is open. That's why I have my Samsung Galaxy S, my Nexus One and my Sapphire.
I have these phones because the open community can do better than the professionals, and I am proud to be a member of a community that has recently hacked Froyo onto the G1, Android2HD2 (and other Winmo devices), created great skins and themes, rooted almost every droid to date, hacked google navigation to work in other countries etc etc etc.
There is amazing work being done is this community.
Kingklick was able to put out a lot of ROMs which satisfied a lot of people. Contributors to Cyanogenmod (disclaimer. notably not Cyanogen himself) and others (fans and friends - disclaimer. note lack of word fanboys - of cyanogenmod, disclaimer. plus some others too) have flamed and flamed away about Kangklick (notably via twitter - I have stopped following any of those jerks that clogged up my feeds with what could've - screw that - should've been settled MUCH more privately..I followed you guys for dev news or the occasional interesting insight into your real life, not your petty bickering, but you have every right to post what you like...hence why I stopped following you all, I didn't flame you...note 'bigger man').
Rule 12 of XDArules clearly states that using the work of others must be done with permission, independent of whether it is open source or not. If this is not upheld then the post will be bought down, it does not say the user will be banned. I would understand the formality of taking the post down and requesting Kingklick reposts the ROM with due credit, but I believe - note believe...implies opinion - that moderators may have been influenced by pressure from other (high ranking, public eye) members and thus did not adhere to normal or just (I do not know if not giving creds is normally treated in this way, but you will discover I believe it shouldn't be) protacol. Kingklick broke the rules of XDA, but then again I see his banning as the least contentious issue here.
I believe that members of the XDA community in the public eye (ie with large Twitter follower base) due to their work via XDA (no matter what you say, cyanogenmod may be based at its own domain, but it still posts at XDA to maintain its public profile and feed of the massive XDA userbase, and is hence in part bound by this) have a responsibility to follow the rules of XDA on XDA rules and disputes. I do not think this is something which can be policed ('I'm banning you Wes for Trolling Kingklick...on Twitter'... not gonna work) but I think it is a moral obligation (anyone that thinks the internet is not bound by morality should take a reality check...the reason why we have open source is essentially ethics).
Do we give credit to Linus Torvalds every time we distribute linux kernels or work to do with linux? Do we give credit to those that helped him create this base? Do we give credit to Google for creating Android? HTC? Our carriers? Martin Cooper for inventing the mobile phone and cell networks? Time Berners-Lee for inventing the internet, giving rise to this forum, Google and thus the Phones/Devices we love and use? The fact is we don't give credit where due (although you may say its obscure to thank these people, they DO deserve our thanks). None of the ROM chefs/coders give all credit where due, but a lot do in part, with those directly involved. But who still thanks the original rooters?
Kingklick has been declared a copier by the jury...I haven't delved through the evidence to confirm this...but shouldn't we be much more relaxed about copying in general? All users should be open about their work with Android, but they are not. If kingklick based a build off Cyanongenmod, and gave due credit for that, he would be called unoriginal, despite his attempts to make improvements. I also believe that there should be transparency, a log of all complaints of interest and the community told in a statement from the mods why someone was banned...at least in part (keeping gory details to themselves thank you very much).
Donations are generally given by 'end-users'...noobs who can flash and maybe do some work on the builds but their contributions are limited. End users generally want user experience, and reward devs with commendation and donations. If kingklick does work on a build which satisfies more users and he hence gets donations, is that stealing donations? No. The original dev works on an open source project knowing that their work is open, but the end user can reward as he/she likes. Perhaps kingklick developed his following due to his branding...he did always use words like FAST and STABLE and SMOOTH, but Apple do the same and they're not banned from trading despite the hyperbole.
I do not doubt that a lot of devs thanks fellow devs with donations. Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick, however a lot of donations come from end users, and if kingklick replaces a few files using winrar (something which I generally contest, I believe kingklick does a lot of great work) and that satisfies more end users by being fast and stable and smooth (or perceived as being so thanks to branding) then he can get donations for that, they are a gesture of satisfaction and goodwill.
Kingklick was immoral by not giving true credit, however I believe that he could have been warned and asked to give credit once he got back from his night out (whether that excuse, or what ever his actual excuse was, was true).
I also laugh at the accusation that kingklick does not fill a niche within the 'open'/'free' community. This should not result in grudges and flame wars, whether it is true or not. Kingklick did fill a niche in my opinion: reviewers (and consumers) see vanilla android as being sterile. Hell it is sterile, and it's never going to be as successful as others if it doesn't sort this out. Cyanogenmod and other big names are based off this sterile form of Android, but they don't delve into Sense UI and other alternative skins, mainly due to preferences or copyright problems etc, not that that stops them with other things. Kingklick did work with these and he filled his niche by delivering great, fast, usable roms of these whilst others sneered at them for being inefficient coding or whatever...geeky snobbery.
Kingklick also delivered various fixes and things which other groups did not. I won't list all of these and I am sure representatives of Cyanogenmob et al will say 'we were gonna fix these issues anyways' or 'that's redundant' or 'that was patchy code', but kingklick has contributed. Obviously we have to hold ethics above output, we can not say that 'his holiness' (inteneded to mock those who believe cyanogen alone is a god, not cyanogen himself) Cyanogen's contributions to android exempt him from following conduct, but we do a great job of driving away good developers with flaming and telling tales. Perhaps you'll say kingklick was not a good developer, Drizzy, even Haykuro etc etc, but I only flashed Cyanogenmod on my Nexus once and I didn't like it for various reasons (personal preference yada yada) but I kept going back for more kingklick...whether that's perceived speed and branding etc or just satisfaction.
King's desire roms are great, but we never mobbed, trolled and banned the poor guy for not giving creds to HTC. Surely the morality of our community using software like Rosie on the Nexus is more ethically questionable than a fellow member of XDA's work, since HTC is a firm which employs people. I bought a Nexus over the Desire because I knew I could still have Sense and a bigger dev community, however the cost included in the Desire which goes to the developers of Sense is hence forgone (perhaps indeirectly, I don;t know HTC internal funding); therefore I have - and anyone who has ever flashed a Sense ROM or devved with Sense - indirectly caused loss of welfare for people who rely of developing as their source of income, tehir families, communities and economies. Surely that is less ethical than not saying thank you, but XDA has no problem with that. Perhaps it is too small to notice, but it will have an indirect impact nonetheless.
Yes kingklick should've said his please and thank you, but I think it's community hyped double standards, pretensical courtesy (not that I wouldn't give creds, it's just that pleases and thank yous are nice, but not actually useful). A wise man once said 'there is no threshold for immorality', just because kingklick did a larger 'crime' than the rest of the community in not giving his thanks out, that does not exempt the other rule breakers (ie everyone), it just means their punishment should be less severe...we choose to ignore it because it's less direct or forgotten about.
In conclusion, I think we should start a 'contributors to Android' part of XDA, added to by mods or specifically appointed members of the community (like the portal). This could be informative and could mean that forgotten about contributors could not be forgotten, but their contributions immortalised in the open community of Android. Even if the contributions become redundant, they are the foundations for the next chapter in the Android story.
Finally. www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html is a very good read..and think about what AOSP stands for (I'll give you a clue...Android Open Source Project!). Can you steal what is open? What right have others to dictate what can and cannot be distributed in the open aspects of Android code (ie the underlying OS and vanilla UI...I'm not confused with Apps). Perhaps kingklick was guilty of plagiarism? But so is anyone that claims they worked really hard in that kernel without crediting Linus and leaving a donation link to his family or favourite charitable causes. Anyone that says I've reworked the UI without giving credits to The Astonishing Tribe for the original Android concepts which all UIs are based off...
Android is closed, that's why I question this 'community'.
I am not proud to be a member of this 'community'...right now.
Ps. Cyanogenmob was originally a typo (using words like mobbed in my piece...Freudian slip on the keyboard rather than fat finger syndrome)...but I kept it in as I thought it was funny...the Cyogenmob should replace team douche IMHO!

Wow, didn't realise how long it was...out of interest has anyone actually read the whole thing !?

Yeah, I read it and agree to some extent.
While what he did was wrong, he shouldn't be banned for it. I do not know all the circumstances around it but from what I read it appears he made sense UI for the Nexus one?
I believe that cyanogen is becoming more and more powerful as a body and it is starting to strong arm others when they believe they are in the wrong. I don't understand why people should shunned as he was simply because he didn't give due credit. From seeing all these devs get the boot from websites because they didn't give all the sources for their work. This is a major hinderance from some people wanting to develop new ROMs. I mean it seems that some people want to get credit for what they did and want to have the fame of what they developed, and not just because they wanted to further the development of phones and custom ROMS.
Some people may not agree with my stance, but I just think you give people another chance for slip ups like that one and not just a boot with no questions asked.

The problem is NOT just using other people work with/without permission...
The problem is cheating the users to get more donations:
Example:
-DevA: Oh, i've been 3 nights compiling the code for you all!!!!
-Users: Ohhh, thankyou, gonna donate for your hard work!!!
-DevA: Ok, here you have the link (and the download is from DevB work with a little text-editor touch-up).
That's not the way of doing things (imho)

sorry but no. the proper way is
devA: "i took all of jubeh's work and 'optimized a text file' and uploaded it, pretty awesome right?"
you: "cool story bro"
devA: "i need a new phone"
you: "im poor but wth if you keep not making your own work and ask for donations"
devA: "ya rly"
you: "maybe i should've donated to the guy that made this all and not the one that file pushed the wifi files over... =("

wow lets have some proof of this please and i quote "Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick" we know cyan does but prove king does if not take the statement out

If King put in the same amount of effort HazzBazz put in to creating this thread/writing that ever so long first post, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But really, did we need another thread on this topic ? I lost track but theres been atleast 10+ threads discussing this and all resulting in a lock/user under investigation.

See guys no one from cm contributors told anyone bout banning kk but yes every one was angry that he never gave credit to anyone. We told him a hundred time already to give credit. I don't know if bbannin does justice here but still he violated a lot of rules. He never released his kernel source. Never gave credits for others hard work. Bout drizzy he got banned for scamming a user. It's not winrar but winzip Get ur facts right. We r talking bout crediting the work of the community. If u do something spending day n night on expecting nothing but some respect or credit for ur work u get angry in ur language doing 1 month job n not getting paid. I would recommend u all try contributing before writing such justifications n flames n more. So kingklick was wrong n given many warnings before being banned. He was not a bad dev or something but as I told u reward for a contributor is credits. Bout donating I guess from tomorrow I'll start packaging cm froyo nightlys change the name of the Rom post it n start asking for donations. I'll even put some unicorns n ponies in it for u guys so it ismagical. N if u thing stuff can be fixed without the source u r wrong. For fixing 99% percent of stuff u need to know how to work with source n compile. Rest 1% are silver by pushing files. And again no one from cm asked any mod to ban him. It was their internal decision. There was no influence whatsoever

And one more thing. U all remember Eugene whom u all made run away from magic n dream. He even caught kingklick using his work by adding a coded name oc the Rom that clearly said Eugene n this made king cry. He started accepting he used Eugene work then more proofs came in of he just changing build.prop n posting as his

Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here

enatefox said:
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
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I lawl'd.
I don't have enough money for my family, but you can have some. Where's your donate link you hard worker?
tl;dr

enatefox said:
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
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Damn man, that site is stupid fast
Im poor and living on the streets but i cant imagine how much work it must've been. Im donating to u

AnderWeb said:
The problem is NOT just using other people work with/without permission...
The problem is cheating the users to get more donations:
Example:
-DevA: Oh, i've been 3 nights compiling the code for you all!!!!
-Users: Ohhh, thankyou, gonna donate for your hard work!!!
-DevA: Ok, here you have the link (and the download is from DevB work with a little text-editor touch-up).
That's not the way of doing things (imho)
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Kingklick developed a fanbase. If they donated is that a crime? He didn't hold for ransom, he just released work without due credit, perhaps mostly someone else's work (havent seen evidence) and hey I put a paper out last term without my complete bibliography done because I was so excited to get it out and I was going away for a week...I finished it off over the break and put it out when I was back, funny that didn't start a war on the internet.
enatefox said:
sorry but no. the proper way is
devA: "i took all of jubeh's work and 'optimized a text file' and uploaded it, pretty awesome right?"
you: "cool story bro"
devA: "i need a new phone"
you: "im poor but wth if you keep not making your own work and ask for donations"
devA: "ya rly"
you: "maybe i should've donated to the guy that made this all and not the one that file pushed the wifi files over... =("
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I like how you're not using any form of personal attack in discussing this issue...give me an example of when kingklick asked asked for donations...theyre just appreciated. And hell did Jubreh give credit to ALL the people who helped him...Linus Torvalds etc? No, so we are all in part imperfect for not giving 'full credit'...call me anal or not.
Daneshm90 said:
If King put in the same amount of effort HazzBazz put in to creating this thread/writing that ever so long first post, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But really, did we need another thread on this topic ? I lost track but theres been atleast 10+ threads discussing this and all resulting in a lock/user under investigation.
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None of them were philosophical...Ive just finished my second year on joint honours in Philosophy so I find it interesting...and it's not exactly an effort to pile out this when I did it all through term time anyway.
charnsingh_online said:
It's not winrar but winzip Get ur facts right.
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LOL I guess that makes me an invalid...nice
charnsingh_online said:
We r talking bout crediting the work of the community. If u do something spending day n night on expecting nothing but some respect or credit for ur work u get angry in ur language doing 1 month job n not getting paid.
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well uhhhh no its not because you expect to be paid for your job, and in fact you have legal rights ...open source developing is COMPLETELY different
charnsingh_online said:
I would recommend u all try contributing
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True yeah we should all try it...I'm hoping to do computer science post-grad if I get a first...but we dont all have the time or the expertise. I do some file pushing for myself, but I dont release it because if I did (despite getting my roms running fast and to my liking) I'd get slated by some snooty coders and fanboys.
charnsingh_online said:
before writing such justifications n flames n more.
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nb. see lack of flaming...
charnsingh_online said:
It was their internal decision. There was no influence whatsoever
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Try twitter.com and look at a lot of members of Cyanogenmob's (still sticking by that, will use that in non-derogatory circumstances, still revelling in the typo!) tweets.
And hey if kingklick can deliver to the end users then there's no use slagging him off...youre equally insulting anyone that thought his roms were good. His slide rom has so much positive feedback for instance.

JAguirre1231 said:
I lawl'd.
I don't have enough money for my family, but you can have some. Where's your donate link you hard worker?
tl;dr
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Daneshm90 said:
Damn man, that site is stupid fast
Im poor and living on the streets but i cant imagine how much work it must've been. Im donating to u
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Yay mock donators now too.

HazzBazz, since you're gonna be like this here goes:
We all know the kangers. They're everywhere from your local grocer to the bus driver. Yes, kangers live peacefully among us. What you didn't know is that the real issue, for me at least, is that when I had my old Windows phone w/Android ported on it, we would bust our asses off (look at the Vogue thread) and people would micro-manage or "release" our work as theirs. Basically we would bust our asses off for free (never have I ever asked for a donation nor have I received a single penny for my time) and these people would zip it up and host it on their own site and build a fan base.
Ok so what right? well the people that post in those threads then have bugs to report. who do they report them too? the guy that said he made the ROM-- not us. he says "lolz i don't know guys" then we fix it then he gets thanked. then, he gets the donation. it pisses me off and I never got paid. imagine the unemployed devs out there.
You can at least see my point, right?

F'sure. Hence why I dont release anything. But to you guys kangers are pests. I do not doubt that kangers should be policed. However the credit issue is something which is neglected at a small level by everyone, so no one is perfect...and the great thing about a big site like xda is that most kangers on other websites have tiny fanbases.
I respect your work because of its own credence, and plagiarism will sure as hell piss anyone off who puts time into things, but we must remember that these are donations, given freely. I think we should do more to inform the 'end users' than ban and drive away devs who deliver what some users want...albeit with some undue credit (inform..allow the end users to make informed decisions).

HazzBazz said:
Kingklick developed a fanbase. If they donated is that a crime? He didn't hold for ransom, he just released work without due credit, perhaps mostly someone else's work (havent seen evidence)
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I will stop you there as the rest of what you say is boring.
Oh and use the search button or cache on google to find(as you call it) evidence
Have a Nice Day

If you like my work, buy bill gates a stuffed penguin.

Love it yeah. Your logical, fair and anticipatory argument leaves me speechless.
'Rest of what you say is boring'...darn I'm upset and speechless...that hurts. It's like Primary school bullies here, only fails.
With regard to 'haven't seen evidence'...I wasn't saying kingklick did or did not do that or this...Im simply saying I (personally) havent seen the evidence (not because it doesn't exist or does exist), but ultimately Kingklick was found guilty of using someone else's work without saying please and thankyou, and was hence driven away from us.

I will be hated on, but I don't care. Bring the King back. I love his Desire Sense UI ROM's.

Is Turbo root (WP-On) worth it?

I saw the root thread is getting clogged down with arguments over the cost to benefit ratio involved with the Turbo root.
So is it worth it? What works and what doesn't? Post your thoughts.

I know several people that root for the sole purpose of having WiFi tether, for those I would think that it is worth it!

But has the wifi tether been achieved yet? I've heard that many are having difficulties.
I think it's also worth nothing that Sunshine has full root and unlocked bootloader for 25$. Now, a small $5 is the difference between full root and unlocked bootloader and write protected half-root system. Admittedly, I am not familiar with having root on a write protected system since I have never owned a system that has this. What I do know is that I have no idea how to edit a system image, nor do I feel any obligation to pay $20 to read a tutorial on how to download a linux VM and waste hours of my life failing at editing system files in hopes that I can achieve what I want to achieve. Perhaps to those more experienced with editing major files like that, the $20 is worth it, but I think for the average android user who appreciates root it may not be.

Basketballhero75 said:
I think it's also worth nothing that Sunshine has full root and unlocked bootloader for 25$. Now, a small $5 is the difference between full root and unlocked bootloader and write protected half-root system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds to me like Sunshine is underpriced then, lol! Hey @jcase, looks like you should charge more.

JulesJam said:
Sounds to me like Sunshine is underpriced then, lol! Hey @jcase, looks like you should charge more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I support what they are doing and the price they charge.
It's not comparable to sunshine, as they are entirely different products. SunShine's goal is just unlock, the included TempRoot is only there to make it work on phones without root.

I will repost my thoughts that I put in the initial release thread for mofo, and thanks to the OP here for creating a discussion thread, I hate being "that guy" who posts off topic. I rarely see anything on the internet that inspires me to bother writing an opinion, but this topic really struck a chord with me.
Personally, I don't fundamentally think it's wrong to charge for root, despite it being historically developed and distributed for free. That being said, one of the things that has made the android dev community amazing is its dedication to opening the abilities of software and hardware for everyone. This core concept of community development and participation is what has helped shape sites like XDA. Once we start the trend of putting a price tag on it, it starts to get a bit apple smelling in here.
For myself, root by itself, not an unlocked bootloader, on a device that’s about to get an OS upgrade is not worth 20$.That price tag is very broken and again sets a bad example. I REALLY DO empathize and sympathize with hard working devs wanting to get some funds back for their time, but the only 0 day exploit being used here is the price tag for this.
Cheers!

I imagine most of us spend $20 over the course of a month on little extras.. a candy bar, fast food lunch, or bar night with friends... etc
So if you sacrifice those little extras for one month to have root on a device that is basically on your body 24/7, to me, is an easy justification to make.
Coming from rooted phones I had no idea how borked an ad-filled android experience is. Being able to use my phone without any visual intrusions is well worth it.
Also coming from 5.0 on an M8, I really don't mind staying with 4.4.4 if the 5.1 update kills the mofo process. Worse case, Im stuck with root on 4.4.4 until my edge up next March and start this process all over again

YES. You can flash an edited image I don't get why people are complaining about this so much it opens a door that allows for mostly anything you could ask for. Edit Image and reflash with what they want.

I have no problem in principle with charging for root. There's nothing at all wrong with a developer expecting compensation for something that (1) requires a specialized skill set that that developer has and (2) clearly required a great deal of that developer's time. Why should I expect them to give me that for free? It would certainly be nice if they did, but it's not something that's owed to me.
That said, I somewhat regret having paid for this. It's fundamentally different from what most users mean when they refer to "root." Apps that advertise themselves as "root apps" almost uniformly contemplate being able to write to /system on the fly, and the lack of an ability to do so means that my phone—while technically rooted—lacks some pretty basic root functionality.

I would have no problem paying $20 or more for what I'll call "true-root". I'm not a technical guy, so doing all the stuff that's required to basically flash a new image is not something I'm willing to do. In addition, you still have write-protection that's not possible or not easily possible to currently circumvent. When I rooted my Droid Razr Maxx (the 1st and only phone I ever rooted), I basically connected to the phone to my laptop, ran a . bat file and sat back and waited. The end result was a fully rooted phone. There was no questions or concerns about what could or could not run. If the app in question required root, then you knew it would safely work.
Don't get me wrong. I believe this will open the door for more possibilities with the Turbo. I can certainly appreciate the time and effort from all involved to get this to where it is. That being said, for me and me only, I will not be implementing this, as it stands today. That would be my stance even if it was being offered at no cost.
The only reasons I ever rooted my Razr Maxx was to get WiFi Hotspot and Titanium Backup working, so the lack of root for me is an inconvenience, not the end of the world.

The issue is that most members here are used to a certain experience, and then when that experience is different they will complain. When they have to pay for that different experience, they complain more. I personally feel like this is 100% worth $20, especially since it is a license for the program. I'm sure that this will open up a lot of doors for this device soon.

If you read this post and on, it looks like we kind of already do have WP off
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691280
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

this_is_nascar said:
I can appreciate that view on the subject. It's still not going to be for everyone.
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Click to collapse
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.

LifeAsADroid said:
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your points.

I had no problem paying for it. I have used free root exploits many times in the past. I tried to donate for most of them (but haven't always) so I see no problem with kicking some money to the dev for his work.
As for those complaining about not getting free root or "half-root". You've gone 5+ months without ANY root. You are free to go along your merry way and ignore this root. At this point it shouldn't make a difference in your life. You should have done some research when you bought your phone. Historically, Moto phones have been difficult to root/unlock. I'm sure you had other choices at your time of purchase. If root meant that much to you, you should have got the M8 or some other phone with "full root".
As far as "half-root", I understand where people are coming from, but it still gives us root functionality, even if we dont have system write ability. For instance, I am now able to run ARU-R and Greenify in root mode. This alone was worth the price for me. Others have had success w/ Ti backup which is also great. My next step is to start testing some of the advanced Tasker functions, but I dont see why they shouldnt work with this "half-root". So far it does most of everything I needed it for so you'll see no complaints from me.
People need to understand that this is a huge step forward from where we were just a week or 2 ago. And appreciate that maiko1 didnt have to spend his time finding and developing an exploit for us, let alone release it in a nicely packaged tool. Whether you thing WP root is worth $20 is going to vary based on individual needs. Why not instead just be greatful we've come this far and if you want to save your $20 then just keep holding out for whatever else this may open down the road.

LifeAsADroid said:
I totally agree with you, it's not for everyone. Everyone is welcome to try (at their own risk), but it's not a "push the magic button" method. Some like the fact that with a little elbow (and finger) grease they can finally get root on a device that was believed so locked down as to never allow root. Some are intimidated by the process of having to do some modding/coding/whatever and would rather wait for an easier (push a magic button) method. Both choices are A-ok in my book.
My problem is with the people who think paying a dev is outrageous, no matter what they are paying for or how much work it is going to be on their end once they get hold of the software after forking over their cash. Someone doesn't want to pay, fine. No need to go out on a soapbox and proclaim your holy testament to the world that so-and-so dev is ridiculous for charging for their work.
Like was said a few posts back, devs that release their sh!+ for free, it's greatly appreciated. Devs that charge for their hard work, I commend you all for being capitalistic in this society.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this approach but your earlier comments were attacking people who didn't object to paying for root out of principal but basically object to paying for what's available right now, as it doesn't give them what they're looking for.
I haven't paid for MOFO yet because it doesn't give me what I'm looking for, which is the ability to install, update and change xposed packages, adaway, etc without having to build and flash a new image every time. I don't have the skills OR the time to do that. I'll be more than happy to pay the $25 I pledged in the root bounty thread if I can get a solution that works for ME.
Like I said, I'm all for devs getting paid to do this, and to be honest, when I read the post about MOFO (before I knew exactly how it worked and what the limitations were), I was relieved that they built the payment mechanism into the solution instead of having to PM hundreds of users and ask for their bounty pledge or for donations on the forum. Moreover, I have a lot of appreciation and respect to people who do these things, whether they charge for it or not. I get all sweaty every time I flash a new ROM, I can't even imagine how much work it is to find these exploits and explore using them for our advantage. It's just that this solution isn't for everyone, at least the way it is now.

Here is how I see it. Maiko1 made a product. This product does exactly what it is designed and advertised to do. Unfortunately, it’s not quite what I’m looking for. If I’m looking for a new car, and I want a car with a sun roof, and someone offers to sell me a car without a sun roof, well, I can decide whether I want to forego that feature and buy that car, or hold off in the hopes that a car with a sunroof will become available. No offense to the dude who made the car without a sunroof at all. I appreciate all the work he put in. It’s just not what I’m looking for. Now, if someone comes along and figures out a way to add a sunroof to the car (adaway, greenify, etc.), I may reconsider and purchase it. But as of now, I don’t really see how those root apps will function without WP off. Don’t they need to be able to write things to the system partition to function properly? I could be wrong on that and if so someone please explain how these root apps will work with the current root option. Just my 2 cents.

Munkee915 said:
I had no problem paying for it. I have used free root exploits many times in the past. I tried to donate for most of them (but haven't always) so I see no problem with kicking some money to the dev for his work.
As for those complaining about not getting free root or "half-root". You've gone 5+ months without ANY root. You are free to go along your merry way and ignore this root. At this point it shouldn't make a difference in your life. You should have done some research when you bought your phone. Historically, Moto phones have been difficult to root/unlock. I'm sure you had other choices at your time of purchase. If root meant that much to you, you should have got the M8 or some other phone with "full root".
As far as "half-root", I understand where people are coming from, but it still gives us root functionality, even if we dont have system write ability. For instance, I am now able to run ARU-R and Greenify in root mode. This alone was worth the price for me. Others have had success w/ Ti backup which is also great. My next step is to start testing some of the advanced Tasker functions, but I dont see why they shouldnt work with this "half-root". So far it does most of everything I needed it for so you'll see no complaints from me.
People need to understand that this is a huge step forward from where we were just a week or 2 ago. And appreciate that maiko1 didnt have to spend his time finding and developing an exploit for us, let alone release it in a nicely packaged tool. Whether you thing WP root is worth $20 is going to vary based on individual needs. Why not instead just be greatful we've come this far and if you want to save your $20 then just keep holding out for whatever else this may open down the road.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps my situation is a little different than most:
I purchased my first droid turbo the morning it came out at my local Verizon store from a friend who had an extra upgrade. I paid a little over $300 for it after taxes. The phone was great, the processor was powerful, and the battery was superb (although not quite 48 hours with my use). As an unlimited data user on Verizon, the lack of tethering for free got to me, and I decided to sell the 64GB beauty for a sound 550$ to pull in a nice little profit.
Fast forward a couple months:
Scanning the droid forums every now and then, I found a post that stated that root was being explored on the turbo. Many android news websites started reporting it and I was beginning to hate my M7 because of it's consistently inconsistent battery life. So what did I do? On March 22nd, I purchased another Turbo for $450; only because I knew it was getting root. And wouldn't luck have it, that the phone arrived in my mailbox yesterday afternoon just hours before the root method was released.
So I am technically INCLINED, but I would not consider myself technically knowledgeable or resilient in regards to system images. With that being said, I don't really trust myself to futz around with my brand spanking new droid turbo since I have no idea what I would do if something goes wrong. (Murphy's Law) I purchased a phone under the notion of "Root is coming to the Turbo!"; which it did! This is 100% undoubtedly a sufficient method of obtaining root. It just wasn't all that I was expecting; and I do have a bad taste left in my mouth only because I purchased this phone thinking I would be getting what I consider to be "full root".
Now,
Am I blaming the developer in ANY way? Absolutely not. His work is fully appreciated on my end.
Do I think this is a huge step for the Turbo development community? Of course!
Will this root method and usage be worth $20 for some people, but not for others? Yes.
Would I recommend this specific root method to any of my friends here at home? Unfortunately, no.
Look, if a dev wants to collect on their work, then by god let them do it! If I poured my time into an exploit such as this, you can be damn sure that I would ask for some capital in return. But would I charge $20? I honestly don't think I would.

LifeAsADroid said:
Correction: my feeling is "here is the best method available as of now. Meet the dev half way and do some very basic, very minor work if you want this function so bad. Dev brought you 90% of the way there, you do the rest because the dev doesn't have your phone in his hands."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the thing - why go 90% there, and not 100%? There's a technical reason for that, obviously, and if a talented developer like the one that created Mofo can't do it (or doesn't think it's worth the time), a hack, weekend-warrior tinkerer like myself certainly can't. Not without putting in many hours to educate myself on all the inner workings of Android, and most guys who want to root probably can't really devote that kind of time and/or resources to it.
Are you saying that you're not the slightest bit disappointed that this isn't an easy, plug-n-chug solution?
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
evastonian said:
If you read this post and on, it looks like we kind of already do have WP off
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691280
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, if you read on, you'll see it was only temporary, makes everything unstable, and doesn't survive reboot.
If WP off was as simple as downloading an app from the Play store, I'm thinking the developer could have figured out how to do it and integrate it into Mofo.

spinach.chin said:
Here's the thing - why go 90% there, and not 100%? There's a technical reason for that, obviously, and if a talented developer like the one that created Mofo can't do it (or doesn't think it's worth the time), a hack, weekend-warrior tinkerer like myself certainly can't. Not without putting in many hours to educate myself on all the inner workings of Android, and most guys who want to root probably can't really devote that kind of time and/or resources to it.
Are you saying that you're not the slightest bit disappointed that this isn't an easy, plug-n-chug solution?
---------- Post added at 02:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:36 PM ----------
Unfortunately, if you read on, you'll see it was only temporary, makes everything unstable, and doesn't survive reboot.
If WP off was as simple as downloading an app from the Play store, I'm thinking the developer could have figured out how to do it and integrate it into Mofo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=59691816
It does survive soft reboot. So we can install xposed, and update SU binaries. It automates mounting as R/W after the kernel. So this looks like a solution.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[DISCUSSION][OT] Freedom Of Speech Thread - Share Your OT Opinion

This thread is OT. It is a place for the freedom of speech.
I believe that XDA needs such a place more than ever.
Here you can discuss and share your opinion about ANY matter. No censorship here, as long as you follow the standard rules of conduct you are also using in the real world. You can share your opinion, even if some won’t agree/won’t like it, as long as you are still polite in the way you express yourself.
*****​
As a starter i want to bring up a topic that does bother many of you too for sure. It’s about that XDA is becoming a place where people come to make money more and more. One thing that concerns me most of all at the moment is the current S-OFF situation of several devices.
This text here was made by me and @neniick and it represents our opinion about something, that could not have been discussed anywhere for a long time now, although it’s a topic up-to-the-minute.
We dont want to disrespect jcase or beaups or any dev for that matter, we all know they put hours of work into these exploits to get it working and make it user friendly.
BUT they sell their product, and they ask a way too high amount for it. We get that they need to buy phones and tools for these exploits, their website/ hosting costs etc, but think about it, if only 1000 people use sunshine, they get $25000(!). thats just insane. Also, this is not xda sharing anymore, this is pure business. Business because they can. Because they are the only ones able to do this.
And for us, the argument that their work is of a “higher” quality than the work/contributions of others is invalid in our opinion. We believe in SHARING. Everyone gives the community what he is CAPABLE of. There is NO need to distinguish the “deliverables”. Every dev/modder/whatever contributes time in his own way. BUT NO ONE charges anything for it. You can donate if you want to of course, but no one is allowed to CHARGE something. It just doesn’t match the spirit of XDA. Something that was possible only some time ago, is now not “possible” anymore to be shared for free… C’mon.
We really think xda is going down the way things are going right now. We would not use sunshine s-off, since it goes just against what XDA stands for (or at least once did), and that should not be supported. People are abusing their monopoly. It's about making money. Not about helping/doing it for the community anymore, don't even mention "sharing". Of course nobody owes anything to anyone here.
But that's exactly the point. They don't owe us s-off, but also, they should not be allowed to sell it here. There are xda rules applying to everyone, no matter what they do/share here. No matter if you are a simple member or a mega-dev/mega-ultra-mod.
But mysteriously, with sunshine it gets tolerated. Remember revone/moonshine/rumrunner s-off solutions? They were all free. You could donate if you wanted to show your appreciation. But what happens now is monopolization. And greed. And we don't think this is fair. And we won't support it. This is simple abuse of "market position". Also we won’t just shut up about it.
That you can't say anything about/against it anymore without being attacked/censored/etc. anymore... It proves everything we said. We most likely will get nearly banned for this statement now and these open words. And that's exactly what should make us start thinking people. We need to start a discussion here.
We won't go s-off this way. We just can't stand this behaviour anymore. And we think many of you guys are thinking the same way.
We should set an example against capitalism on xda. Capitalism that does not even try to hide anymore.
Now we would really like to hear about the opinions of you guys

herwegan said:
This thread is OT. It is a place for the freedom of speech.
I believe that XDA needs such a place more than ever.
Here you can discuss and share your opinion about ANY matter. No censorship here, as long as you follow the standard rules of conduct you are also using in the real world. You can share your opinion, even if some won’t agree/won’t like it, as long as you are still polite in the way you express yourself.
*****​
As a starter i want to bring up a topic that does bother many of you too for sure. It’s about that XDA is becoming a place where people come to make money more and more. One thing that concerns me most of all at the moment is the current S-OFF situation of several devices.
This text here was made by me and @neniick and it represents our opinion about something, that could not have been discussed anywhere for a long time now, although it’s a topic up-to-the-minute.
We dont want to disrespect jcase or beaups or any dev for that matter, we all know they put hours of work into these exploits to get it working and make it user friendly.
BUT they sell their product, and they ask a way too high amount for it. We get that they need to buy phones and tools for these exploits, their website/ hosting costs etc, but think about it, if only 1000 people use sunshine, they get $25000(!). thats just insane. Also, this is not xda sharing anymore, this is pure business. Business because they can. Because they are the only ones able to do this.
And for us, the argument that their work is of a “higher” quality than the work/contributions of others is invalid in our opinion. We believe in SHARING. Everyone gives the community what he is CAPABLE of. There is NO need to distinguish the “deliverables”. Every dev/modder/whatever contributes time in his own way. BUT NO ONE charges anything for it. You can donate if you want to of course, but no one is allowed to CHARGE something. It just doesn’t match the spirit of XDA. Something that was possible only some time ago, is now not “possible” anymore to be shared for free… C’mon.
We really think xda is going down the way things are going right now. We would not use sunshine s-off, since it goes just against what XDA stands for (or at least once did), and that should not be supported. People are abusing their monopoly. It's about making money. Not about helping/doing it for the community anymore, don't even mention "sharing". Of course nobody owes anything to anyone here.
But that's exactly the point. They don't owe us s-off, but also, they should not be allowed to sell it here. There are xda rules applying to everyone, no matter what they do/share here. No matter if you are a simple member or a mega-dev/mega-ultra-mod.
But mysteriously, with sunshine it gets tolerated. Remember revone/moonshine/rumrunner s-off solutions? They were all free. You could donate if you wanted to show your appreciation. But what happens now is monopolization. And greed. And we don't think this is fair. And we won't support it. This is simple abuse of "market position". Also we won’t just shut up about it.
That you can't say anything about/against it anymore without being attacked/censored/etc. anymore... It proves everything we said. We most likely will get nearly banned for this statement now and these open words. And that's exactly what should make us start thinking people. We need to start a discussion here.
We won't go s-off this way. We just can't stand this behaviour anymore. And we think many of you guys are thinking the same way.
We should set an example against capitalism on xda. Capitalism that does not even try to hide anymore.
Now we would really like to hear about the opinions of you guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1

thread moved to here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/general/general/discussion-freedom-speech-thread-share-t3083156

No Kingroot Sheep here!

Thankd to Kingroot I lost the chance at making around 400$ yesterday....i mean why have full legit trustable root from Sir [email protected] ...all my respect real talk...why have that when you could just have someone remote into your PC Today!!Not sold yet? They are more knowladgable then our entire brotherhood they will install a virus...i mean a harmless program thats steals your IMIE ..i mean completly brings your phone to its knees ...i mean will root your phone with one click.....please by all means gain a fake ...i mean kingsu binary...its so legit and only to be used by professional freelance phone modders....they will click....i mean one trick your phone....screw it these kids know what they are doing.. they had to put hundreds upon hundreds of hours behind a Linux Machine learning commands then the same plus sweat and tears into studying the Androids complete orgins and capabilities I mean i just dualboot Linux and run it as my main OS so how did i know that Android running off a Linux kernel actually uses kingsu....i forgot that command to enter my root folders on my Ubuntu OS after a fresh install was Sudo Kingsu.....hmmmm i dont blame nobody but these kids...they got no respect...i just Odind back to stock and deleted the custom recovery a fellow brother made and I tested becausr it literally must not get any better right.....gotta love that backup with the stock recovery....i cant wait to flash some scripts er KingRoms.....oh jusr roms ....oh not done in one click. ......no snapshot backup....i always hated inginuity behind TWRP . Made life to easy....now to just get rid of this 6 core Ryzen 1600x i have comming in the mail to build TWRPs ..port my own roms ....i just cant wait for Kingroot...ignorance and oblivion are going to be bliss!!!
I appreciate all you who do this for real and dont make money at it ....not my intentions either....only to bring other knowledge and the real deal..thats 100 ....withouth this community id probably of been one of those foolish customers and be smooth talked into lossing out on everything that is Droid and The Family and Community XDA is besides all the knowledge thats been struggled anf fought for so vigorously...So tonight I drink to you guys who fly true and i will be moving on to Computers and Website building with Php Sqlite Html5 and the rest...TO XDA FOREVER....NEVER SHEEP!!!!

Why you mad tho?
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

passport619 said:
Why you mad tho?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mainly all the Hours Everyone at this forum Pours in this forum and website and countless sleepless nights doing it right. Not to mention hours I have put in to Learning these tricks that I have tried to pass along to those who
A. Are misguided or informed
B.Will eventually uses this Forum
C. Somehow will owe this site a nod of thanks for everything both proprietary and intellectual that is tireless fought hard to be kept both growing and safe.
D. Are ignorant and could uses a helping hand.
E. The misinformed and misguided once again cant forget that we may or may not have been *That Guy or Gal*
F. Security Threatend
G. Cold need some privacy and or Freedom.
I digress tho its mainly to watch someone pay 5-20$ to a kid whom instead rather push one button of a mouse ...Lazily I might add ....to either persuade a unknowing user to unknowingly temp root (i dont call it that..not the point.) and advertise it as geniune root. Or to have the blind leading the blind....idk if thats the buyer or the young person who illadvisedly or knowingly (whichever is worse is a matter of opinion.
So in hindsight I would say the ppl need this community just as I do...I feeling that just as much I do so they. That money could be in a developer,freelancer, specialist whom could teach them the tricks of the trade so openly given with no obligation at this sight.
That is why ....You tell me after a couple years being up night after night or just free time such as off days or spare time after school flipping from this site to your pc and then to yoyr smart phone repeadetly for whatever reasons or AndroPractices you may use.
Just to clarify I dont say that ive earned the right to any monetary or financial gain for any knowledge I may or may not have ....just a finders was saught as a Advising Freelancer fee to said knowledge gained and or leadership that towards what I believe this community stands in.
One might argue is in the end either helpful and or lifesaving to the health of their personal lives lived on a mobile device. Or just misuse ...idk yet ive only had the best of intentions to inform the potential or current user that there is a path well beaten...

My end goal is and always will be to enlighten or show the path to enlightenment ....be that such informative information as how to port a rom ....build a working recovery...unlock your bootloader ..or stuff maybe not regarded so highly but needed and sometimes daychangers and money savers like flashing to stock or usb tethering....even the stupid stuff like can you make me a rom for device 123H that ends up like nah ur bootloaders locked. Ive seen it transform into a full on discussion that sometimes meets goals that are like said example or they bring about some light that benefits the end user and reader in the end.
I guess I just apprecaite the small things in my life that could be entire careers work ( length and depth matters not)
* personal opinion only and a way to keep my intentions from being miscontrued preventing any offense I may or may not cause(d)*

Problems at home?
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I'm not sure who's selling what or where, but I'm going to end the ramblings here.
If someone is trying to sell a service on Xda, please report them with the report button on a relevant post or thread. Selling services is not allowed here.
If it's something that happened off of Xda, then please don't bring the drama here. :good:
And if I've mistaken the intend of this thread, my apologies. But it is definitely hard to follow.
Thread Closed.