Hello,
i have happily installed Debian Lenny, the Arm distro, using cdbootstrap onto a SD card. It boots (with haret), network via the usb works. Things like lynx, sshd multiple screens etc work fine and i can run a instance of Apache, serve mail etc - basically its a pretty sweet little server at the moment with its touchscreen keyboard as its control. The wifi interface seems to be recognised but I can't use it but that can wait.
But i can't for the life of me get any decent graphics on it. I've tried a couple of different framebuffers but they to no avail. Much seems to revolve around some kind of pci bus issues or similar. Is there a PCI bus emulator package that I've missed somehow or some other little trick for running on the Arm architecture?
Is this the same issues that the fellas porting Android are having - getting the graphics to work? Does anyone know of an free Arm specific Xorg styled server? All the packages for Gnome/KDE etc are all ported already to arm and I can run things like xterm and other X apps on a remote display so i know the binaries and libraries are fine.
Cheers.
farkah said:
Hello,
i have happily installed Debian Lenny, the Arm distro, using cdbootstrap onto a SD card. It boots (with haret), network via the usb works. Things like lynx, sshd multiple screens etc work fine and i can run a instance of Apache, serve mail etc - basically its a pretty sweet little server at the moment with its touchscreen keyboard as its control. The wifi interface seems to be recognised but I can't use it but that can wait.
But i can't for the life of me get any decent graphics on it. I've tried a couple of different framebuffers but they to no avail. Much seems to revolve around some kind of pci bus issues or similar. Is there a PCI bus emulator package that I've missed somehow or some other little trick for running on the Arm architecture?
Is this the same issues that the fellas porting Android are having - getting the graphics to work? Does anyone know of an free Arm specific Xorg styled server? All the packages for Gnome/KDE etc are all ported already to arm and I can run things like xterm and other X apps on a remote display so i know the binaries and libraries are fine.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Already a thread discussing Linux. Your most likely get a result if you post in it.
Thread closed
I'm undertaking a stupid project and would like to ask some questions of some more experienced developers. Yes I know there's no practical reason for this, and no you cannot talk me out of it.
I would like to create a sort of "super nerd" adaptation of CyanogenMod for command line Linux junkies, or at least for Comp Sci grad students like myself. I want my phone to be able to recompile and reinstall nearly everything it runs. Yes I know that's a painful and slow operation: I did "emerge tightvnc" on a chroot Gentoo install and the command took about 18 hours. I remain undeterred.
Questions:
Sun JDK is apparently not available for arm7a. Am I reading the docs correctly, and one can indeed use Apache Ant to compile Android? Or is Ant not what I think it is? I'm not opposed to creating a small Bochs VM that boots, mounts a network filesystem, executes some JDK task, and then signals to terminate. I'd rather not if I can help it though.
How much access does the radio hardware get to the rest of the system? If I were to store something personal in an encrypted loopback partition, could someone abuse direct memory access to read from memory without the host OS knowing about it?
Has anyone played with adapting the Android boot process to use System V type init scripts? I'd like to make it easy for Tasker to say "we're running out of memory -- go from init level 5 to something arbitrary, say 7, which stops some services. Oops, still low, go init level 8, which disables more services.
I definitely plan on sharing my work. What do you guys think of the name CyanoGentoo?
Thanks all.
Apparently Apache Ant is not what I thought it is.
How about this then: does anyone know where I might find a community for people interested in general purpose computing on an Android phone?
Michael Spencer said:
Apparently Apache Ant is not what I thought it is.
How about this then: does anyone know where I might find a community for people interested in general purpose computing on an Android phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't know if you're still around but I'm very interested in helping and believe I may already have some solutions for you. If you're still running chroot or another form of ARM Linux distro (Debian based is what I'm coding for at the moment) then check my github
https://github.com/S0AndS0/Debian-Kit-Mods
The readme file has directions on how to clone and run the main modding script which curently has at least one if not two options that'll peek your interest for sure.
One set of options will download and install Java's JDK (either hard float or soft float) and another will download and install jMonkey (a user friendly programing SDK built on eclips) which will get you one step closer to compiling things on an Android device for Android devices. However, I've yet to crack running "Android SDK" because they have yet to reliece an ARM compatible source and "wine" (a Linux package for emulating other CPU's) is still under heavy development, so building Android from source and such is still out of the scope of what I've been able to script up for easy use.
On a side note; a quick google search of my user name and the key words guide, linux, jdk, arm and xda will result in links of what I've written up on enteracting with Linux on Android if you get stuck anywhere.
And if you search "raspberry pi android adb similar:xda" you'll find what I'll likely be working on bringing to Android; after debugging the script I'm working on to set up a Brendle (one of many methods of "cloud computing" availible for ARM) node/network through all availible network interfaces (bluetooth, 3G/4G, wifi) on Android.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using xda app-developers app
I am still around, and when I get a chance I'll take a look. I think I'm mostly satisfied with AIDE and chroot Ubuntu.
And those worried about dma exploits via radio hardware need only use a wifi-only device with a portable hotspot, I've concluded. No way to prevent these exploits otherwise.
Thanks again.
Michael Spencer said:
I am still around, and when I get a chance I'll take a look. I think I'm mostly satisfied with AIDE and chroot Ubuntu.
And those worried about dma exploits via radio hardware need only use a wifi-only device with a portable hotspot, I've concluded. No way to prevent these exploits otherwise.
Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed AIDE has been a fantastic tool for me as well.
Heh dma was indeed a concern of mine among other security issues with running Linux over 3/4G but its to bad there's no solution yet. I'm using old phones and tablets for most tests but try as I might I can't break into them from out side my hotspot network... even though I can connect to the divice running the hotspot remotely if it is running Linux too.
hmm, I'm working on a new script of examples for networking now, lots of building blocks to my latest project, which may help new scripters with some networking tedium of finding and assigning specific IP's to variables so they can be shared or saved or modified into other commands quickly. This will upon compleation will be one of the references for other scripts I'm working on for getting openstack and MPI running on multiple devices swiftly.
Speaking of MPI; the installer for Bramble on Android now works (install option 2 within for Debian Kit users) for getting that software package installed and all that is left to work on is the setup for machine files and sshkeys for multi-node quick set-up.
Two questions; seeing as how you have AIDE, perhaps you might be able to help with my other project that I'm working on? I've another github repo where I'm working to incorporate a; soft/hard float Linux installer, terminal emulator, rdp/vnc client, scripter, and forwarding of Linux GUI to a second device and/or Chromecast of a specific desktop or Linux window with x11... Currently stuck on the terminal but still very new to Java for Android.
or because that's a bit much to ask; perhaps some help with Android scripting for installing Linux on Android that uses Debian Kit's methods to provide hard float or soft float?
I'll be around and have modified my sig for easier tracking and will be pushing more updates to github today, hopefully by the end of the day have a sshkey passer script for quickly setting up passwordless remote login. After that will be some work on setting up bridges between USB, Bluetooth, Wifi, and any other network interface available for faster transfer of large data sets.
Edit 03192014
Michael Spencer said:
Has anyone played with adapting the Android boot process to use System V type init scripts? I'd like to make it easy for Tasker to say "we're running out of memory -- go from init level 5 to something arbitrary, say 7, which stops some services. Oops, still low, go init level 8, which disables more services.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check out the Debian Kit app, from what I have found it exposes all of the Linux processes and file system to Android and if running as root user on Linux then the full Android file system is exposed too. Debian Kit doesn't use chroot to run Linux so it's "possible" to run a chroot environment at the same time. And running "ps" commands on Android or Linux terminals, produce nearly identical output, of both Linux and Android processes happily running meaning that if Tasker can't see these processes then a script can run the "ps" command and run a command to shut down Linux processes; likely it's a bit more complex because re-starting those services or even suspending some could cause un-wanted behavior. Still though with testing and time it is possible to have the memory better managed.
Update 03312014- Back on making your phone compile itself subject; I'm working on using(/scripting an installer for) OpenStack on Android, which has QEMU for emulating CPU processors which will eventually allow us to install Android SDK on Android(s) running Linux. I'm using OpenStack because to emulate a normal PC processor one even a quad core ARM processor is really slow (use to be an app for this called Limbo PC emulator but last I searched the market place this app was gone) so using OpenStack will allow us to throw what ever extra Android phones into a pool of sharable CPU power; essentially I'll be creating a 7 or 8 (virtual) core processor out of networked Android phones and then emulate a 2 or 4 core x86 processor within and install the tool kits for android that have CPU requirements.
I've other plans for OpenStack too but those will require that I incorporate mesh networking and google translate. So that users anywhere can build a cloud of shared processing power.
Sent from: SPH-D700 or myTouch3Gs or Sero 7 Pro
Linux Install guide for Android devices that I'm writing:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2240397
Or
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ssVeIhdBuuy8CtpBP1lWgUkG6fR6oHxP20ToYPPw6zI/edit?usp=drive_web
And my script pack for installing; Java's JDK, node.js and more to your Linux OS
https://github.com/S0AndS0/Debian-Kit-Mods
Note: if you're new to Linux/scripting/command line; check readme file for instructions.
http://www.timelesssky.com/blog/building-android-sdk-build-tools-aapt-for-debian-arm
http://www.timelesssky.com/blog/develop-app-on-android-with-android-sdk
Hey all found the ^answer^ if you've not already found this blog then you all are in for a treat dig around on that above site and you'll find some other really cool stuff for Linux Android systems.
Sent from: SPH-D700 or myTouch3Gs or Sero 7 Pro
Linux Install guide for Android devices that I'm writing:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2240397
Or
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ssVeIhdBuuy8CtpBP1lWgUkG6fR6oHxP20ToYPPw6zI/edit?usp=drive_web
And my script pack for installing; Java's JDK, node.js and more to your Linux OS
https://github.com/S0AndS0/Debian-Kit-Mods
Note: if you're new to Linux/scripting/command line; check readme file for instructions.
Was thinking, given that Microsoft Window's 8 is based partly on Window's phone 7/7.5 etc, and Mac OS is also based on the ios software, when Android releases Ice cream sandwich, would it be possible to produce a PC version? Kind of like a linux version, open source etc seeing as it contains a linux kernel.
Given that it would only run on ARM to start would mean limitations, but surely there would be a way to build a new boot system or kernel to work on non-ARM devices? Sure, it would be a lot of work etc but it could be tied in to the android market, and offer lots more flexibility to the system.
Seeing as Google released the chromeOS, why couldn't the android devs have a crack, I don't know, just rambling on. Let me know what you think below and get a few ideas rolling
Sure.
zm15011992 said:
Was thinking, given that Microsoft Window's 8 is based partly on Window's phone 7/7.5 etc, and Mac OS is also based on the ios software, when Android releases Ice cream sandwich, would it be possible to produce a PC version? Kind of like a linux version, open source etc seeing as it contains a linux kernel.
Given that it would only run on ARM to start would mean limitations, but surely there would be a way to build a new boot system or kernel to work on non-ARM devices? Sure, it would be a lot of work etc but it could be tied in to the android market, and offer lots more flexibility to the system.
Seeing as Google released the chromeOS, why couldn't the android devs have a crack, I don't know, just rambling on. Let me know what you think below and get a few ideas rolling
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is android x86 already. it works well. if I'm right is android having a cursor and everything. its just hidden.
Windows 8 contains Windows Phone like Elements Yes.
and iOS on iDevices is like a ripped version of MAC OSX.
As you might have seen. Intel and Google are making phones together now.
With an x86 Intel Atom CPU If I'm right. also will ICS Have 32Bit Support.
Haha about 10 minutes after posting this just found the x86 version, will have a look at it, see what can be done with it and just play
Follow this guide=> http://www.androidsim.net/2011/08/how-to-37-install-android-on-virtual.html
WiFi works also if you know how to set it up
the x86 version of Android is still fall off to be use-able
it is fund, but most of the apps in Market are not compatible
so you have to basically port all the apps that you want to use to run on a x86 architecture instead of ARM architecture
Does any one knows if these (awesome) features from iOS might show up in WP8?
I got iPad and Lumia 710 and as much as I love WP7 Apple had done one thing reasonably - it shop/s.
I use Netflix, Hulu and other services through VPN. On iOS it wan not a problem to setup 3 different accounts for 3 different markets US,UK and Poland. Also, because EU itself (inside) is almost like USA (travel and work wise) I don't understand why MS choose to divide EU market so much.
It is like if you by WP and are registered in NY once you move to California you will not get access to local apps registered in California Marketplace. Same thing here I live in Poland and in UK. I got back accounts in those 2 places I need to be able to get the apps I want without loosing those from different region I already had (paid for).
And I miss VPN for the times when I am away/abroad.
Any ideas if WP8 will be different here to WP7.5?
MS has been hit with monopoly/other laws in EU for a while now, each EU country has their own set of laws, might be why there are different EU markets... now why this doesn't apply to apple/google I have no idea :S
not based on location, but different carriers have different apps hidden by google :S this could be same as your EU markets?
eyeb said:
not based on location, but different carriers have different apps hidden by google :S this could be same as your EU markets?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still with Android this is a child play to get them anyway. With iOS, free stuff from any itunes store is easily available only WP is a problem. Shame as I really like Lumia 920... but since GxSIII is and will be much cheaper and without any issues mentioned above I might go with it
You legally shouldn't be able to access apps from other markets unless you're physically in that market. There's a reason why the app isn't available in your market. It's due to copyright issues. Netflix, hulu, etc aren't available in Poland, or UK, or wherever, because they don't have a right to distribute their libraries to those countries. You accessing that is going against this limitation.
Tl;dr: Windows Phone does it right by only allowing one marketplace per device. However, people should be able to switch what it is when they move, limited to a certain amount of times per year to prevent abuse like what you're trying to do.
vladzaharia said:
You legally shouldn't be able to access apps from other markets unless you're physically in that market. There's a reason why the app isn't available in your market. It's due to copyright issues. Netflix, hulu, etc aren't available in Poland, or UK, or wherever, because they don't have a right to distribute their libraries to those countries. You accessing that is going against this limitation.
Tl;dr: Windows Phone does it right by only allowing one marketplace per device. However, people should be able to switch what it is when they move, limited to a certain amount of times per year to prevent abuse like what you're trying to do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In theory you are right, but... accessing app and accessing service - not exactly the same thing.
+ all this is fine, but it is just a nice theory, not really for XXI century. Unfortunately copyright law (as well as patent law, especially in USA) are still based in XX century. This means that it is all working against the market and only to uphold monopoly and make the competition as small as possible, Rules and laws that are still in power in regard of copyright would not be allowed anywhere else, but "entertainment" and media it is very rich and very powerful industry (like tobacco and oil). This is why we get ACTA, PIPA, SOPA and more to come. They will do anything to prevent the change,
Ok... enough of off topic.
You say people should be allowed to change market few time per year... OK. How many is few? What if you travel frequently between USA, UK, Poland, Germany? What is you run out of those changes? You paid for the phone, you will pay for the service... you can not get it.
You say MS did it right??? Don't agree. My Live ID was setup when I was living in the UK (for few years). Now I live in Poland (but again I do plan to move). Unfortunately I cant use Polish apps although I bough my device here and I am here for the last 3 years. Should I setup up another Live ID just for Poland? Ok... I might... I can will buy stuff and than what if I will go back to UK?
Even apps that are available on both markets I will have to buy again, just because I have moved to different region of world? Can you imagine buying Angry Birds today and again i a year time just because you changes state and need to get different apps from "local" market?
In my opinion what Apple did is the best compromise. If you hold the CC you can register to new market and you don't loose your prev purchases. And free apps - where is the harm?
There is plenty small, cool apps - offered free only in Poland or UK just because their creators never thought some one from other country would be interested. And I suppose it cost more (per developer) if they want to offer their app world wide instead of just 1 country.
Would you agree (and pay) if your Windows PC would have the same kind of limitations?
Would you be OK if your car would have them?
Would you be OK if clothes you buy would be licensed to wear only in one country? After all trousers by Levis are sold in different prices in different markets.... you buying them cheap in USA and not buying in EU = loose of money for manufacturer.
Netflix gets my money, copyright owners and artists get the share... so what - my cash is not as good as Mr. Smiths from NY or Suth Dakota?
Yes it is... because idea is that for the same movie I should pay 3 times as much here..in EU. Fair?
+ quite a lot of movies I watch at Netflix I own on DVD anyway - it is just so much more convenient to stream than to play with different dvd each evening. But I do not have choice of similar service in EU.
Last thing I would add are exclusive deals signed by each of services Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, etc... with such popular product as film or music it should not be allowed. If you could access the same library through many different services you would choose the best one. Now service it self can be sht. but you got no choice if you want to watch certain titles.
Laws and copyright laws were supposed to make sure you are protected, that you do not LOOSE money not that you can make even more.
How come USE, EU, Japan, etc is fighting monopoly everywhere but not where movies and music are concerned. It is bad for the artists as well (beside few selected "stars" making millions). Shouldn't market decide - how much it will pay per production?
I do believe i read somewhere wp8 will have vpn support.
ROCOAFZ said:
I do believe i read somewhere wp8 will have vpn support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is good news... question remains about apps from other markets or like in Android case form other than market sources...
Would SGS III be a good chopice instead of Lumia 920 (big screen Netflix and VPN should work)... it shpuld be quite a lot cheaper than Lumia 920...
i would have to certainly go with windows phone 8
ATHORNFAM2 said:
i would have to certainly go with windows phone 8
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too. If only I could resolve my two issues - access to VPN servers and availability of apps from different regions (iPlayer form UK and Netflix from US) I would not hesitate even for a higher price.
At the moment I got to go with SGS III and Android (I miss Nokia Drive and Music and Nokia itself already)
For hd2 WP7.5 every market is open with market enabler. You can install all Nokia apps, all HTC app, all Samsung apps, etc. On a "rooted" HTC HD2.
Ok, interesting.
This means that such a trick should also be available to at least some Nokia phones...
I have to say that I like the design of new Nokias. Not to mention that on every meeting 50% have their iPhones, rest has some Samsung, HTC or Sony devices and 100% of the time I am the only raisin with old school Nokia. Now ti seems that some folks are getting jealous...
Any way... HD2 is quite old device and hardware wise can not be as efficient as new 2011/2012 headsets, right?
+ there is one more issue - this trick has to work on WP8. Even if I can download and install Netflix app on WP7.5, without VPN access it is useless.
One more thought... and a question.
Beside interface... Is (or will be) Win8RT and WP8 the same system? If so... why did MS decided to split it into two? (Is there a forum for WinRT here somewhere? If I could make VPN and those apps make work on RT device I could save some money on my iPad replacemnt - at the moment I got to go with the likes of Samsung Smart PC or Asus 810 - Atom CPU + full Win8 Pro onboard.
As far as i know, WinRT is a framework for metro app development on Windows 8 and Windows phone(similar to win32, winFX etc etc), whereas WP is...an operating system. WinRT is integrated in Windows Phone due to the shared kernel.
WinRT is the Windows Runtime on which Metro Apps are built in Windows 8
WinPRT is the Windows Phone Runtime on which many Apps für WP8 are built which has similarities with WinRT but they are NOT identical
Windows RT is the ARM based Version of Windows 8 which does not allow for installation of additional Desktop Applications
WP8 and Windows RT presumably use the same Kernel and some system services but above that layer there are substantial differences. (common core, not common OS).
Microsoft and it's product naming - never fails to confuse people.
Do you know if Windows 8 Pro (x86) and RT (ARM) will have the same limitations regarding installation of apps as Windows Phone?
And does anyone knows why MS went to all the trouble of creating Windows 8 RT, instead of making Windows Phone "richer" - just as Apple did with iOS.
After all...
Windows 8 RT will not be used on desktop (x86) PC's.
If it will have a desktop mode it will be very limited - I don't suppose we will be able to download (ARM) apps of the internet as with Windows 8 Pro (as we do it now).
It will rune the same apps - just few more because tablets will have different (bigger) screens.
The only difference will be in screen size and in its resolution (but not that big - 1366 x 768 vs 1280 x 720).
Same core of the system in both...
Both RT and WP are to run on ARM devices that only differ in size (ARM tablets are phones with larger screens after all).
In my opinion it would make sense to limit ver of Windows 8 to 2 or 3: Windows 8 Pro (x86); Windows 8 Enterprise (x86 for corporations/business, etc.) and Windows 8 Home (for ARM phones/tablets/hybrids). The only difference in the system for ARM devices would be interface (small - Phone and large "PC style" [or even with option to choose between them - as WP8 looks as it could do nicely on 10" screen] on tablet).
In fact, since you can not buy and install ARM system by yourself as you can not buy a device without it it could all just be Windows 8 - for PC, tablet and Phone.
As in Android.... different devices, different manufacturers = different interface but ONE system
You can not run ARM-compiled applications on Desktop Windows (weather it is x86 or x64).
You also can not run desktop compiled (x86 or x64) on ARM.
This is because the machine code between the two is different.
ARM apps can run on Desktop without big differences after they are recompiled.
Windows Phone 8 apps and Metro apps for desktop should be equally as constraint due to shared kernel. There might be some phone-specific stuff which might not work on desktop though. I haven't tried building any metro app yet to give you a detailed answer.
I don't know why you got to the conclusion that WinRT does not run on x86 desktops though....cause it is plain wrong.
WinRT is a framework for Metro apps, not an operating system.
mcosmin222 said:
You can not run ARM-compiled applications on Desktop Windows (weather it is x86 or x64).
You also can not run desktop compiled (x86 or x64) on ARM.
This is because the machine code between the two is different.
ARM apps can run on Desktop without big differences after they are recompiled.
Windows Phone 8 apps and Metro apps for desktop should be equally as constraint due to shared kernel. There might be some phone-specific stuff which might not work on desktop though. I haven't tried building any metro app yet to give you a detailed answer.
I don't know why you got to the conclusion that WinRT does not run on x86 desktops though....cause it is plain wrong.
WinRT is a framework for Metro apps, not an operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WinRT is an operating system and it is very close to Windows Phone. I suspect that in future we will see both of them grown into one.
WinRT is an ARM version of Windows 8 and as you said your self it will not run Windows 8 "Desktop" software.
What is more I suspect that it will not run (without some additional changes and work) even the apps wrote for x86 Metro - it looks the same but it ain't the same.
However I see no reason why it should not run "straight out of the box" apps from Windows Phone. After all it is exactly the same hardware (in phones) as in Windows RT devices.
Imagine you wrote an app A for "Metro" in x 86 and app B for WP.
If you have 3 devices (with free access/jailbroken) - 1 with Intel and Win8PRO, 1 with WinRT (lets say Tegra3) and 1 of the WP 8 phones what iI suspect is:
A will run (as is ) only on Win8PRO
B will run (as is) on RT device and Phone.
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/46334/windows-phone-8-windows-rt-separate-for-now - although thois article says that Win8Pro and WinRT are almost the same (unlike) WP... in my opinion it is much closer from WinRT to WP than from WinRT to Win8Pro.
Still, all those 3 are much closer to each other than iOS and MacOS - this means a lot less work for developer and much bigger opportunities.
My question from the post above was quite different. (but I am afraid we go off topic from the main subject - if you prefer to move this post to the right place - I dont mind)
In Win8Pro (I hope) I will have the same freedom I ever had with Windows. This means I can use Windows Store (if I want to) or I can download and install any thing else (with x86 code) from any other source.
Q1: Is it true for both modes - desktop and "Modern Interface" or will be installation of apps for "Modern" interface limited to MS own shop only?
Q2: If I start a program that can run in both modes (desktop/modern) like IE or Chrome (in future) will programs own interface change smothly with system or in reality "desktop mode" and "modern interface" require two separate programs. So if I start Chrome in desktop and move on to "Modern" I will have to start it again and both can run alongside (in the RAM) as two different browsers?
Q3: WindowsRT (ARM devices) it will have limited desktop mode I believe, and as I understand it will not allow for installation of ARM software from outside the Marketplace as WP does today. So even if one of you will write an ARM app I will not be able to use as easily as I could if it would be made for Win8PRO - correct?
Q1) You can install the App on your local machine if you have the Visual studio 2012 and the source code. You will need to upload the thing to marketplace in order to install somewhere else. The compilation produces a .appxrecipe file which is opened by the Windows Store app. The Store looks for the app online and if it doesn't find it...no install >.>
Haven't found a side-load mechanic so far.
Q2) It will require two separate programs.
One will be compiled using a desktop specific framework like WPF or WinForms, whereas the second requires WinRT.
WinRT is not an operating system, it is a framework similar to .NET(WinFX)-> this is the main reason why it is called Windows RunTime
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Runtime
Actually, Ill try making a mock Metro app and see what happens.
The only similar aspect between the Arm and Desktop versions is the presence of the shared kernel, which is in fact, only shared through its features, cause the base code is different.
If WinRT is not an operating system than what sits in ARM ver of surface tablet or in this device: http://tablet-news.com/2012/09/28/samsung-ativ-tab-ready-for-pre-order-coming-at-the-end-of-october/ - because it is not Windows 8 PRO I can tell you
Regarding you answer for Q2: that truly SUCKS! They went through trouble of making useless version of Win 8 for ARM tablets that is not Win 8 nor WP8 and will be more expensive that iOS/Android competition... but the did not write ?modern interface" in x86 way....
For a guy like me, Mr Average Joe it makes things even more f..ed up. I will have platform segmentation within 1, single device.
Now I will need 2 browsers, 2 mail clients, etc... and even swapping between modes will be like swapping between separate devices...
This is pure crazy!!!
I would not mind having to wait a bit for programs to change their layout and look (like when you now change them on Win7 and everything goes black& white for a moment or when one switches between "traditional Windows" and AREO style - that is what I was expecting.... as it looks now I am not so sure I still want Windows 8 on any of my devices....
The thing running on tablets is Win 8 without the desktop part.
You do not need two mail clients/browsers/whatever.
On Windows Desktop 8, you can continue to use your desktop (which is an app within Metro) and continue to work in a Windows 7-like enviroment. The only thing missing is the start button, which has been replaced by the Metro screen, which is better imo for finding apps than the Start menu if you configure it properly.
You can continue to use your desktop firefox/chroome/whatever and you desktop programs you used on Windows 7 with no problems.
The Metro is only present on desktop computers so that it can help with the tablet-phone-desktop-Xbox interoperability. It is not mandatory, in fact i use it like a start menu to quickly launch desktop apps more than anything else. In fact, Metro apps have quite huge limitations, and inevitably you will need to use the desktop to get to files hidden on your computer.
I've written this replay from a firefox browser within the desktop app on Windows 8, so you can take it for granted
Windows 8 is really not as bad as people make it out to be....it gives you lots of choices and you can continue to use it like windows 7 if you so desire. It has tremendous performance optimizations though...boots in 3 seconds for me(sometimes even faster).
mcosmin222 said:
The thing running on tablets is Win 8 without the desktop part.
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But those tablets are not x86 devices... + MS themselves is calling this Windows RT to make it clear it is not the same as Win 8 Pro.
What is more, ARM tablets are exactly the same as phone (same architecture, SOC's, etc.) just bigger screens...
When you say I do not need to browsers...than what do you suggest I run in the Metro style if (as you said previously) it is not the same app that runs in a desktop mode?
Or... if I start browsing the web browser in a Metro mode what I would want (and what I know now will not happen) is to see my browser with open sites displayed on the task bar once I go to desktop mode.
At least for me this would be a unifying experience... If the Metro mode will be completely separate from desktop mode I might as well stay on Win 7 and get w new device just with metro mode on it (ARM tablet)....
Please tell me I am wrong!!!!
I do not care too much about ARM ver. of Win8 (RT) as I do not plan to get it...
but if Win8Pro means it will be like two separate systems on one device it is scary.
At this point it looks like MS is saying rubbish... as its new interface is not really an interface... its a (almost) complete different system running alongside in a PC.
So... I can not start my program (I understand it would have to have a modern look prepared) in desktop (like today Classic Windows) style and move to modern (or for Win 7 Areo) style and still have the same program with just different layout/look bu the same data on the screen. Yes
If so.. I need to have two browsers to be able to see web sites in both modes, two mail clients..etc...
I'd like to use my Galaxy Note 9 to work on a tiny image of Linux that I've set up via Windows 10's Hyper-X. The VM itself is only about 512 MB max.
Is there software out there that allows you to run a VM within Android? I would be doing this all with my DEX and probably a Bluetooth keyboard/touchpad. I couldn't find any YouTube videos out there which support this idea, unless they're worded in a way that I don't expect.
JOSHSKORN said:
I'd like to use my Galaxy Note 9 to work on a tiny image of Linux that I've set up via Windows 10's Hyper-X. The VM itself is only about 512 MB max.
Is there software out there that allows you to run a VM within Android? I would be doing this all with my DEX and probably a Bluetooth keyboard/touchpad. I couldn't find any YouTube videos out there which support this idea, unless they're worded in a way that I don't expect.
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https://wiki.qemu.org/Main_Page
apparently people have ran xp on it according to:
https://android.stackexchange.com/q...run-windowsxp-as-a-virtual-machine-on-android
i know this is not as requested to run full blown linux on an android vm but still interesting if it works.
but dex has already LoD so...
https://www.linuxondex.com/
its arm so no x86 / x64 native linux apps can be installed. so only those compiled towards that cpu.(which is the 64 bit version of arm if im not mistaken)
there is even discussion in the dev thread of actualy booting linux off of android rather than emulate it but its a work in progress and requires to root and id think the same arm caveat would apply even once a fully working build arises.
so all in all that build you have would at the very least be arm based if it would ever have a chance to work on android.
in the end having a VM in the cloud or on a pc at home with a port forward and using vnc or even better using the great remote desktop manager app and running it on dex is the easiest way to simili achieve your goal.
https://remotedesktopmanager.com/
@bober10113, I'm actually programming a tiny distribution of Linux to work on a machine that I believe is x86 but I'm not sure, honestly. I plan on basically making the image and writing out instructions to re-create it. I'll take a look at the links provided when I have a moment. Thanks.