Hi,
I have a kaiser with either a mainboard/usb fault. HTC wanted £250 to fix, so a repair is out of the question.
If I charge the battery on another Kaiser and stick it in my faulty one then my faulty one works fine for a few hours (it discharges more rapidly than it should - I assume due to the fault, but works for probably 4 hours) there is no way of charging via the faulty phone mini usb connector (it lights up amber but doesn't charge, nor does the USB connection hook onto the computer).
Luckily I had hardspl on the phone from new and can easily update via the uSD card if any need.
My questions are these: How can I hard wire my kaiser to a power supply so that I can leave it on in my car at all times? (it doesn't need to be moved)
The battery is 4.2v, can I hook a 5v supply onto the 2 outer pins?
What are the other 2 pins for?
Do I need to connect the 4 copper pads in the battery compartment together?
Thanks for any help that you guys can give!
http://www.mikechannon.net/page1.html
check out the service manual
Hi,
Thanks for that, I scoured through the service manual but I couldn't find anything about the voltages on the battery compartment terminals and therefore how to hotwire power straight into them, I don't know much about this and didn't want to screw it up worse than it already is by sticking 5volts onto them. Looking at the markings on the battery power to the outer 2 terminals would do it but i'm sure there's more to it than that.
Dan.
Many angles to this.
Battery is 3.7 volts. You'd want to supply that. But there is a battery charging circuit inside the phone. How that will effect things? I don't know.
There is a circuit in the battery that gives you battery % I believe. Unless you feel like reverse engineering that, you're in a tight spot.
I'd say save your cash, and buy a new phone. this probably won't end well.
on second thought. If you're already willing to hardwire contacts, why not just hardwire 5V to the USB pins?
Keep your battery in there and you'll have 5V on the usb port keeping everything happy
Hmmmn, you might be on to something with that, the problem with the phone is that it doesn't charge when hooked up. The power light glows amber but it actually makes the phone DISCHARGE faster than when not connected. Once the battery gets completely drained all I get is a RED led.
When I sent it back to HTC they said water damage right away. I know for a fact that it hadn't been wet in more than 2 months (it did get wet but only a few raindrops, just enough I guess to wet a detector strip) from when this fault occurred so perhaps it's not a mainboard fault and is in fact the USB connector failure another thread is referring to....Hmmmm.
Gonna give it a bit of thought and then either get the soldering iron out or just bang it on ebay for spares. Should think the screen assembly would be worth a fair bit!
Perhaps I misunderstood.
If you're getting the magical amber LED while the USB is plugged in, I'll say you have a good connection. I wouldn't screw with any soldering. It does sound like you have a short somewhere.
I only had my phone drain faster than it could charge when I setup a bittorrent client on my phone. Got warm!
Inspecting the board for damage might be the best choice. I've seen a motherboard on a laptop that went out with visible water damage. I scraped off an area with "ick" on it that was shorting out two contacts.
If you can't solve it that way, I'd try to disable 3G/bluetooth/wifi and see how low you can get your power consumption.
I've always thought that the vulnerable points of a smart phone was it's physical ports, so I avoid using them. Whenever possible I use bluetooth for sound and charge my batteries externally. Now I read that changing the battery can damage the contact points in the battery compartment in the phone. My Samsung battery doesn't fit snugly in either the phone or the charger. It's a pretty small point, but I am wondering, if it's better to change in the phone or use an external charger and change the batter.
I'd appreciate your thoughts
There are tons of Palm Touchstone (phone) hacks out there, using the charging receiver from a palm pre back in other devices. The Touchpad Touchstone uses a different tech/standard so the charging stand isn't backwards compatible with the old receivers. My Touchpad is at its end of life, and I'm considering removing the charging coil and circuit and transplanting it to another tablet so I can make use out of the Touchstone stand.
Has anyone attempted this? I looked at photos of a Touchpad teardown, and the charging coil looks easy to remove, but it appears to connect to a larger pcb via pogo pins. My fear is the charging circuitry (to put out 5v) is built into that large pcb and it might not be possible to separate.
On the Oneplus forum there is a thread where they analysed the dash-charging cable ( https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/...-cable-doing-internally-lets-probe-it.456017/ ).
The topic was finished by somebody posting a teardown of the cable revealing that it's dash-charging capabilities are encoded on a BQ2022 from ti.
The next logical step is to dig into the communication between the phone and the charger.
The same guy that tore down the cable also took a look at the chargers (google translate will be helpfull):
http://www.chongdiantou.com/wp/archives/1228.html Mains
http://www.chongdiantou.com/wp/archives/1339.html Car
Maybe we can continue the investigation here....
So, I did some digging around the Car-Unit with my Logic Analyzer.
Description of setup here: http://imgur.com/a/G7pPN
The charger waits for a current draw (i didn't bother testing it's thresholds) and then reads/checks-for the E²PROM embedded in the plug of the cable (presumably containing an authentication for dash).
At a similar time the phone sends a kind of "preamble" consisting of high-low transitions of varying lengths (but this doesn't seem to important to the charger, it tries to "dash" even without it).
Afterwards the phone and charger start exchanging 9 bits of data in bursts. One USB-Data-Line is clock, the other one is data. The chargers supplies the clock and the first 9 bits and after a short pause the phone gets to reply with another 9 bits as the charger supplies another "clock-burst".
At the beginning (before dash-charging is in effect), the charger sends 150h and the phone replys with 158h.
Once the phone is ready to begin dash-charging it replys with 178h instead.
The charger then configures it's Step-Down Converter for ~4.5V of output voltage and then sends 148h to the phone.
It either replies with 170h if the voltage is too high or 178h if the voltage is correct (I didn't see a reply for "too low", but it might exist).
If the phone replies 170h the charger lowers the voltage by about 100mV-200mV and "asks" again.
Once the phone replies with 178h the charger stops lowering the voltage and sends 14Ch to which the phone replies with 141h.
During the dash-charging process the charger periodically sends 144h to which the phone replies with a number which seems to roughly coincide with the state of charge (i have seen values from 16Eh to 178h).
The charger seems to nudge-up the voltage every once in a while (presumably when the current dropped below a threshold).
If the battery is relatively full (i tested at 90% charge) the "dash-charging-cycle" doesn't even start and the communication stays at an exchange of 150h/158h data "words".
I did some minor probing on the wall-wart with a stripped USB 3.0 extension and found that it uses the same commands but with the lowest bit set (i.e. it adds 1 to the command codes). Unfortunately the USB 3.0 cable had some internal resistance ruining most of the analog measurements.
todo:
- I didn't manage to capture is the transition from dash charging back to "normal" 5V mode at the end of the charge cycle.
- The values communicated at the transition from the voltage-setting process to the dash charging operation are unclear to me (but they appear to be always the same).
Do you think it's safe to use OnePlus 3 brick or car Dash charger with let's say micro USB cable and charge other phones? Or OnePlus power bank?
nitramcek said:
Do you think it's safe to use OnePlus 3 brick or car Dash charger with let's say micro USB cable and charge other phones? Or OnePlus power bank?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it's safe as with other phone or cable it will act as a normal charger blocking at 1.5A.
Dash charge will only activate if, the dash cable is used with a dash charging phone or oppo vooc phone.
Le_Zouave said:
it's safe as with other phone or cable it will act as a normal charger blocking at 1.5A.
Dash charge will only activate if, the dash cable is used with a dash charging phone or oppo vooc phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, so It's safe to use my car Dash charger for charging other phones to.
atheist93 said:
So, I did some digging around the Car-Unit with my Logic Analyzer.
Description of setup here: http://imgur.com/a/G7pPN
The charger waits for a current draw (i didn't bother testing it's thresholds) and then reads/checks-for the E²PROM embedded in the plug of the cable (presumably containing an authentication for dash).
At a similar time the phone sends a kind of "preamble" consisting of high-low transitions of varying lengths (but this doesn't seem to important to the charger, it tries to "dash" even without it).
Afterwards the phone and charger start exchanging 9 bits of data in bursts. One USB-Data-Line is clock, the other one is data. The chargers supplies the clock and the first 9 bits and after a short pause the phone gets to reply with another 9 bits as the charger supplies another "clock-burst".
At the beginning (before dash-charging is in effect), the charger sends 150h and the phone replys with 158h.
Once the phone is ready to begin dash-charging it replys with 178h instead.
The charger then configures it's Step-Down Converter for ~4.5V of output voltage and then sends 148h to the phone.
It either replies with 170h if the voltage is too high or 178h if the voltage is correct (I didn't see a reply for "too low", but it might exist).
If the phone replies 170h the charger lowers the voltage by about 100mV-200mV and "asks" again.
Once the phone replies with 178h the charger stops lowering the voltage and sends 14Ch to which the phone replies with 141h.
During the dash-charging process the charger periodically sends 144h to which the phone replies with a number which seems to roughly coincide with the state of charge (i have seen values from 16Eh to 178h).
The charger seems to nudge-up the voltage every once in a while (presumably when the current dropped below a threshold).
If the battery is relatively full (i tested at 90% charge) the "dash-charging-cycle" doesn't even start and the communication stays at an exchange of 150h/158h data "words".
I did some minor probing on the wall-wart with a stripped USB 3.0 extension and found that it uses the same commands but with the lowest bit set (i.e. it adds 1 to the command codes). Unfortunately the USB 3.0 cable had some internal resistance ruining most of the analog measurements.
todo:
- I didn't manage to capture is the transition from dash charging back to "normal" 5V mode at the end of the charge cycle.
- The values communicated at the transition from the voltage-setting process to the dash charging operation are unclear to me (but they appear to be always the same).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really interesting analysis. What's your goal? Enabling dash charging without dash accessories?
(USB-C for example)
My primary motivation is curiosity.
If the protocol turns out to be sufficiently simple to replicate (which is looking good at the moment) I might try and build a dash powerbank to quickly top of my battery. I wouldn't want 3+ Amps going through a flimsy micro-to-c adapter from a vooc bank...
atheist93 said:
My primary motivation is curiosity.
If the protocol turns out to be sufficiently simple to replicate (which is looking good at the moment) I might try and build a dash powerbank to quickly top of my battery. I wouldn't want 3+ Amps going through a flimsy micro-to-c adapter from a vooc bank...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hmm, so you're trying to replicate it on the hardware side, that's a cool application and it'd be great to have other options for power banks and car chargers.
i honestly don't know much about the topic, but do you think i'd be possible to replicate it on the software side? ie, mimic the protocol to enable faster charging when plugged into a USB-C fast charging output? (but also limit it to 3A since that's a safe max similar to the Nexus 5X/6P)
I am pretty sure that it is not possible to do it in software only.
The whole point of Dash is to let the charger do the regulating and make the phone just "pass-through" the raw connection to the battery.
You might be able to trick the phone into switching it's "pass-through" feature on without getting the right initialization, but this would frankly be stupid as the result would be 5V from the USB-Port pushing directly into the lithium cell which is supposed to stay below 4,2V. Initially the internal resistance of the USB-Cable might limit the current sufficiently to prevent an immediate catastrophic failure, but I can't imagine it working out well in the long run...
The only possible solution i see for this to work is to have a device that plugs into your existing USB and steps down the voltage appropriately, but that is hardware again.
atheist93 said:
I am pretty sure that it is not possible to do it in software only.
The whole point of Dash is to let the charger do the regulating and make the phone just "pass-through" the raw connection to the battery.
You might be able to trick the phone into switching it's "pass-through" feature on without getting the right initialization, but this would frankly be stupid as the result would be 5V from the USB-Port pushing directly into the lithium cell which is supposed to stay below 4,2V. Initially the internal resistance of the USB-Cable might limit the current sufficiently to prevent an immediate catastrophic failure, but I can't imagine it working out well in the long run...
The only possible solution i see for this to work is to have a device that plugs into your existing USB and steps down the voltage appropriately, but that is hardware again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a physical device which enables dash charging, particularly up to 3A via USB-C and 2.4A via USB-A to USB-C, would be of great use too
atheist93 said:
My primary motivation is curiosity.
If the protocol turns out to be sufficiently simple to replicate (which is looking good at the moment) I might try and build a dash powerbank to quickly top of my battery. I wouldn't want 3+ Amps going through a flimsy micro-to-c adapter from a vooc bank...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought the Dash car charger to be used as a car charger as well as backup power for camping etc. The dash charger seems to work with a wide range of input voltage. I would guess 8V-28V works fine.
I tested the dash car charger with eight AA Eneloop batteries but it didn't work well. The input voltage dropped from 11V to 6,6V. I think the stress was too much for eight batteries and dash charging didn't work. Ampere (app) displayed a reading of 1120mA for charging current.
Ten AA Eneloops were enough to dash charge the phone twice from 40% -> 90%. I also tested the dash car charger with a 19V PSU and it workerd fine as well.
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The next step is to buy lifepo 4 / lipo battery and build a case.
Thanks for the work done.
The problems with the enelope is the wiring... I guess there will be a massive voltage drop over the holder/wires and clips.
These things are not made for higher currents. I have seen experiments failing because of battery holders and crocodile clips very often. The problem is that these cables often have massive resistance which is no problem as long there is no current flowing... Greetings from Ohms law
Squabl said:
I bought the Dash car charger to be used as a car charger as well as backup power for camping etc. The dash charger seems to work with a wide range of input voltage. I would guess 8V-28V works fine.
I tested the dash car charger with eight AA Eneloop batteries but it didn't work well. The input voltage dropped from 11V to 6,6V. I think the stress was too much for eight batteries and dash charging didn't work. Ampere (app) displayed a reading of 1120mA for charging current.
Ten AA Eneloops were enough to dash charge the phone twice from 40% -> 90%. I also tested the dash car charger with a 19V PSU and it workerd fine as well.
The next step is to buy lifepo 4 / lipo battery and build a case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How did your project go? And why Lipo batteries? Why not 18650 batts?
MonoTovarisj said:
How did your project go? And why Lipo batteries? Why not 18650 batts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get custom Li-Po batteries to fit any size and are generally square. 18650s are cylindrical and there would be wasted space between the batteries so with a Li-Po you would be able to get higher capacity. Just a wild guess
MonoTovarisj said:
How did your project go? And why Lipo batteries? Why not 18650 batts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I ended up using battery from my 18V cordless drill. The battery is quite small and light weight for it capacity. It was the easiest and cheapest option as I need battery backup very seldom.
I did a case for 4 x 18650 and the car charger, but got a little stuck in the project. Mostly because I don't have any electronic skills.
This looks cool.
What questions do you have? I can help out with the electronics. But it seems to be quite straight forward. But to be safe use protected 18650 cells. I can recommend the Panasonic NCR18650b, they are the best ones currently available. See: https://www.gearbest.com/batteries/pp_187046.html. You might need to adjust your design the protection makes them a bit longer than standart 18650 cells.
The design is already for the panasonic protected 18650 cells. However I would have liked a pcb in the buttom with full charging circuit and a usb-c for charging. With my current design I have to take the cells out for charging. :-/
MonoTovarisj said:
The design is already for the panasonic protected 18650 cells. However I would have liked a pcb in the buttom with full charging circuit and a usb-c for charging. With my current design I have to take the cells out for charging. :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want to connect the 4 cells in series right?
I haven't found any good 4s charging modules yet.
Building you own charger circuit based on an charger IC is hardcore electronics. I have tried and i took months.
So charging the externally should be fine really.
affmalg said:
You want to connect the 4 cells in series right?
I haven't found any good 4s charging modules yet.
Building your own charger circuit based on a charger IC is hardcore electronics. I have tried and I took months.
So charging the externally should be fine really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah series, as I need the voltage for the car charger, and 3.7 times 4 gives a nice 14,8V for the charger.
Regarding charging that was my conclusion as well, however if I wanted to commercialise it, I would need a built-in charging circuit.
I would be able to get wires to the top poles as well if that would help the design, then you would be able to charge them individually and switch to a serial connection when in use.