Database Develop

Vulcan FlipStart - Mini PC, Mini Review

You're all no doubt absolutely delighted that you get the first review I'm writing of the Vulcan FlipStart V1.0! For those of you who aren't aware of this little device, it originated with the (often called "vapourware" MiniPC of 2004, demonstrated by Paul Allen). The concept has been refined massively, and is now on sale in the US for $1999 with the following specification:
Pentium M @ 1.1GHz
512MB RAM (not expandable)
Intel 915 graphics; 64MB Unified Memory Architecture
30GB HD (having spoken to the designers, at present this is all that will fit)
5.6" screen at 1024 x 600 pixel (220dpi) resolution
Webcam (VGA, I suspect)
Keyboard, trackpad and touchpoint
802.11b/g WiFi
Bluetooth 2.0
EV-DO cellular data connection
Windows XP Professional SP2
Additional features include media keys and an InfoPane; a secondary display of cellphone-like quality on the rear of the clamshell case which displays email, contacts, appointments etc. without opening the PC.
As shipped, the device comes with a large capacity battery, port replicator (providing Ethernet, Power, USB x 2, VGA and audio), small carry case and a screen wipe, plus the PSU to charge it.
Optional accessories are the slimline battery, a high-end leather case, chargers, and potentially high resolution camera or other devices connecting to a top-mounted expansion port (looks like it is USB but not a USB connector, just wire pads ready for devices using USB protocols).
It's really very hard to describe JUST how small this computer is. Most UMPCs are 7" screen, tablet or sliding tablet devices. Flipstart is a clamshell, and a very rugged feeling one at that. Finished in a fetching dark blue metallic with the distinctive InfoPane and slding metal "FlipStart" cover plate, the closed device is comparable to HTC's Athena, perhaps 3% or so larger. It can be slipped into the back pocket of your jeans with the slimline battery fitted, for example.
Opening the FlipStart reveals a thumb-type keyboard of moderate quality and good spacing; it has a backlight which is pleasant and even, and some handy quick access keys to zoom the screen, open the FlipStart navigator application, control media, and access the task manager. The shift keys are curiously large - you are expected to use your thumbs to type, and by placing the keys accurately and providing a large target, shifting with one hand whilst typing with the other is comfortable. Takes a while to adjust to this method, but it works very well.
Above the keyboard, from left to right, are two mouse buttons, a cursor pad with Page up/down, home and End functions, power keys, a small trackpad and a thumbstick-type device. The trackpad even has software to enable or disable tapping and tapzones, something woefully lacking on many fullsize laptops that assume you WANT to tap; pleasantly, this one has the right balance so tapping works without being obtrusive. The thumbstick device is very quick and convenient, but using the two as appropriate makes this a snappy PC to get around.
Of course, a touchscreen would be better, and when using the device with the Ameo the instinct to grab the stylus and tap the XP screen was very strong. A touchscreen would add depth and reduce the clarity of the insanely high resolution display, however.
Being in the UK, I am unable to test the EV-DO function, but the WiFi and Bluetooth work well - connecting "on the road" was painlessly accomplished via Bluetooth PAN and the Ameo on T-Mobile's 3G network.
Being a fully functional PC it runs PC applications. I've yet to find anything it can't handle, with the obvious caveat that I am applying common sense here and not trying stupid games, or HD video editing suites, or high-end desktop image editing applications.
Oh...
Wait, I did try that last one. It's running Photoshop CS3 adequately; let's say, CS3 on this is snappier (and obviously more capable and vastly more expensive) than Pocket Artist. Lightroom also runs well enough to use despite the FlipStart's display being relatively low pixel resolution for Adobe's recommendations. I'm tempted to try InDesign on it purely for the amusement of doing DTP on a pocket-sized computer - I have little doubt that it will be possible. The LCD's viewing angle is very critical in terms of tilt, but when you get it right the colour and evenness of the backlight is impressive; I wouldn't trust it for critical colour work, but it's certainly alright for previewing and basic adjustments or editing.
Quake 3 was included as a demo and at the default 640 x 480 resolution, was quite playable with an external keyboard/mouse combination.
All this CPU power comes with a cost, of course. Heat and power drain. The FlipStart features a little visible vent alongside the port replicator, and frankly, you'll love it if you ever get stuck in the frozen North with one; it's pretty warm! The fan is louder and more insistent than the dual fans in my XPS M2010 - which is really logical, given the large airspace available in the Dell. FlipStart's CPU is amongst the better ones you'll find in a "UMPC" device, most of the Origami/tablet type units sporting Geode or VIA CPUs. Sony's UX-series has more MHZ, but is larger and costs more.
Battery life is around 3-6 hours with the bulkier "extended" (actually standard) battery, and a mere one and a half hours with the slimline battery. Charging is via a small and delicate looking jackplug - given the amount of charging this device needs, I'd like to have seen a contact-based charging solution like a dock. No provision is made for this, the port replicator clips on and isn't significantly better in terms of wear and tear - plus, you'll want it with you to have access to the 2 flat USB ports. The standard USB port is under the hinge for the display, and bulkier items like memory sticks may not fit.
Overall, the FlipStart is a surprisingly usable "marvel of the modern age" - not only does it convincingly demonstrate just HOW much power you can cram into a small package, but outside of that demonstration, you can run serious applications on it. With remote desktop for the fiddlier file management, or an external display and keyboard/mouse, it's a perfectly functional computer - and if you have good eyesight, the display might not be an issue for extended use. The robust physical design points at a device designed for real world use, instead of geektoy chic - and as such the flexibility of it makes it a lot 'cooler' than you'd initially expect. As the Ameo has demonstrated, there's an upper limit to the size of device that you want to carry about, and this really does stay within it where larger UMPCs may fall foul of the "never take it anywhere" problem that also held back the better Handheld PC machines.
And on that note, that's where this device sits, in my opinion. This is the 21st century "Handheld PC", whereas Origami in the purest form - the tablets - are more confused about their purpose. Are they computers, or just powerful media players?
Having seen the games performance of this, I can envisage devices like it in 3 or 4 years time for high-end mobile gaming, where keyboards are replaced by game controllers, and titles like Gears of War or World of Warcraft can be made truly portable with no loss of quality over their PC or high-end console counterparts. With a desktop OS, and a port replicator, they could even be used for real work. The question is, would the costs come down sufficiently if they sold in large numbers?
At a good $800 or so premium over the HTC Athena, itself one of the most expensive WM consumer devices around, you'll need a good use for it to justify owning it. In isolation, though, FlipStart comes VERY close to bringing true desktop computing power to the genuinely "pocket sized" device. And this is just version 1.0...
One of the nicest aspects of the FlipStart is the contining number of "surprise and delight" features. For example, the zoom key is inherently a bit clever, zooming the window you are looking at to fill the screen, but you can also quickly adjust the zoom level by holding the key and using the scroll wheel. Is this a standard UMPC-like feature? It's really neat! I've never used a screen so sharp and small, yet so comfortable to work on before.
(Pictures will follow eventually, but there are plenty around if you Google!).

Nook Color impressions

ADB will not connect via USB.
No ports open on the device, so no connecting ADB over IP (I have seen this work on the Maylong M-150 (Walgreens) tablet.)
Browser sends HTTP User-Agent:
Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_5_7;en-us) AppleWebKit/530.17 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Safari/530.17
I have tested the factory reset button combination, it is valid. Hold Volume+ and Nook and Power, while the device is turned off.
WiFi options are rudimentary. There is no support for proxy in network settings, additionally, after receiving an IP address from DHCP, the device appears to connect to a website to verify connectivity. If you have a captive portal network setup (where HTTP outgoing requests are redirected to a login page), then the verification process will just hang. You will be unable to go anywhere using the included browser. After several minutes, the verification process will fail, and then you may be able to connect to the captive portal using the web browser. This is discussed on page 56 of the Nook Color user guide.
Would it be helpful to anyone to include the open source libraries that the device includes (under Legal Notices). I don't know if it is helpful to know what libraries are included (or omitted) compared to a conventional Android device?

Additionally, some notes on the MicroUSB connector. It is proprietary.
* It will sync, but not charge, when connected to my PC desktop's USB (wattage unknown.)
* An ordinary MicroUSB will sync, but not charge, when connected to PC.
* I left the included 120VAC-to-USB transformer at the office, so I do not know the listed wattage.
* The nook cable will charge the device when connected to my Moto Droid1 120VAC-to-USB.
* An ordinary MicroUSB will not charge the device when connect to the Moto Droid1 120VAC-to-USB transformer.
* Finally, the Nook cable will not fit in my Moto Droid1. Therefore it will not charge or sync. Careful examination of the Nook cable shows that the metal trapezoid connector is slightly longer, and appears to have additional pins. 12, in addition to the 5 conventional pins. I cannot tell by observation whether the receptacle within the nook makes contact with these pins.

phiz said:
Additionally, some notes on the MicroUSB connector. It is proprietary.
* It will sync, but not charge, when connected to my PC desktop's USB (wattage unknown.)
* An ordinary MicroUSB will sync, but not charge, when connected to PC.
* I left the included 120VAC-to-USB transformer at the office, so I do not know the listed wattage.
* The nook cable will charge the device when connected to my Moto Droid1 120VAC-to-USB.
* An ordinary MicroUSB will not charge the device when connect to the Moto Droid1 120VAC-to-USB transformer.
* Finally, the Nook cable will not fit in my Moto Droid1. Therefore it will not charge or sync. Careful examination of the Nook cable shows that the metal trapezoid connector is slightly longer, and appears to have additional pins. 12, in addition to the 5 conventional pins. I cannot tell by observation whether the receptacle within the nook makes contact with these pins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
* Mine is charging off my Dell monitor using the Nook USB cable.
* Charger is 5V - 1.9A.

I've read everywhere that the USB cable can't charge over the PC. It even says it in the manual, but it charges just fine connected to my computer. It takes forever though and the light never turns solid green. But the battery percentage still increases to 100%.
Motherboard is a Gigabyte EP45-UD3P if anyone's curious.

The micro usb has two extra pins so that it will quickcharge using the ac adapter. If connected to a computer and the screen is on it does not pull enough to charge the device but with screen off it will. One of the techs said that on the b&n forums.

So as far as rooting this thing, it seems apparent that there are three attack vectors.
* If device checks MicroSD on bootup for updates.
* Userland exploit, loading a file, going to a URL, Wifi Protocol stuff etc. Perhaps in the PDF libraries? (Note, because of sand-boxing this may not lead directly to full root, but it may allowing running of other software that would be useful for reconnaissance on the device.)
* Wait for Nook SDK to come out, and use the increased access to the device to compromise it.
The device is frustrating to use as is. Not because of any major design flaws, but because of the untapped potential. Like, I would love to have DropBox to ease file management. And the browser is left wanting (it reports as Mac OSX, and does not render some pages well (Google reader is wholly unusable.)
I'm considering returning it. It has so much potential, but I'm expecting the quality of the Chinese knockoff android tablets to continue to improve.

charges perfectly fine off my 10 watt panasonic wall adapter with an oem micro usb. says it's not charging but it went from 93 to 100 in ~10 minutes while i was using it.
there was a good bit of stutter when registering my device. i had to tap multiple times to switch b/t numbers and letter input. sometimes i had to tap the character multiple times for it to register.
i agree though, this is the sweetest tablet next to the galaxy tab and iphone hardware wise. too bad it's locked down right now.
just like all the cheap-o android tabs, this one does have soft back and menu buttons. if you click the book icon at the bottom the back and menu buttons are there. the home, volumes, and power buttons are the only physical buttons. no search button, but i rarely use in on any of my other android devices.
video playback is horrid! all my mp4 will play but choppy. even streaming was crappy. i tried youtube mobile with no videos being able to be played. madthumbs (nsfw!) worked but so stuttery it made it unfappable.
NM reboot fixed everything. my ripped videos and stuff downloaded with videodownload helper play fine now. able to watch some kung fu treachery on the beautiful screen.

the little book icon (read it now) at the bottom doesn't seem to bring up the menu and back buttons anymore. now it just takes me to the last read book on the homepage. i'd rather have the back and menu buttons back.

The charging connector has too many pins for just charge control. I counted 12 extra pins over the 5 standard USB, but it's tiny enough that I could've skipped one. I'm sure that two are used for controlling the LED in the connector shell, one is probably used as a cable identifier, leaving 9 unknowns.
My guesses:
-OMAP boot mode (MMC boot, select pins (1-2)
-serial (2)
-JTAG (4 or 5)
-audio (2-3)
I thought that extra current capacity could account for all the rest, but why spend on what I'm guessing is not a cheap connector just to bus all those tiny pins together?
Anyway, I tried to buy a second charge/sync cable to dissect today but my local store only had cases and screen protectors in stock. The connector has all pins populated so I'm hoping I can break them out and start probing for a bootloader on serial. Hopefully iFixit will get a teardown done soon and we can get a good look at the parts.

seem like there's bug in that read it now button.
to get the menu and back buttons back you need to open a pdf on you sd card. then for some reason you get you back and menu buttons when you hit the read it now.
this is helpful in that with the menu button you can now have a forward button for web browsing, refresh and you can go back without scrolling all the way to the top.

pokey9000 said:
The charging connector has too many pins for just charge control. I counted 12 extra pins over the 5 standard USB, but it's tiny enough that I could've skipped one. I'm sure that two are used for controlling the LED in the connector shell, one is probably used as a cable identifier, leaving 9 unknowns.
Anyway, I tried to buy a second charge/sync cable to dissect today but my local store only had cases and screen protectors in stock. The connector has all pins populated so I'm hoping I can break them out and start probing for a bootloader on serial. Hopefully iFixit will get a teardown done soon and we can get a good look at the parts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I want them to look into the additional pin issues. See this: meta ifixit com/View/1108/Nook+Color+Teardown+Request
You know, while they're in there.

madsquabbles said:
video playback is horrid! all my mp4 will play but choppy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problems with MP4/M4V playback here. I used the newest handbrake and selected the iPod touch preset to start with.
What I changed:
Picture Tab:
- Width -> 848
- Anamorphic -> Loose
Video Tab
- Framerate -> 23.976
- Constant Quality -> 59.31%
Audio Tab
- Mixdown -> Stereo (Maybe Pro Logic II will work?)
Chapters Tab
- Unchecked "Create Chapter Markers"
My source video was a 1080p MKV with AC3 audio. It looks gorgeous even though it's actually sized smaller than the full res of the screen (NookColor won't play MP4/M4V wider than 854).
I'm playing this off a Class 2 SD card and I didn't notice any choppiness.

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but do you guys think that it might be better to go with an archos 70 instead of the nook color since it seems like its roughly the same price and perhaps easier for people to work on? looks like they're similarly priced.

milkham said:
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask but do you guys think that it might be better to go with an archos 70 instead of the nook color since it seems like its roughly the same price and perhaps easier for people to work on? looks like they're similarly priced.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the archos 70 has a lower resolution screen and the viewing angle is not as good.

rubyw59 said:
I believe the archos 70 has a lower resolution screen and the viewing angle is not as good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I've read as well and I think it applies to the g-tablet. I've read on the forums here folks that have had or looked at both the NC and the archos and gtablet and they say the NC has a much better display. The who IPS thing, same as iPad and the newest iPhone 4.

Infinitely better screen...not even comparable. Text on the Gtablet looks blocky and absolute crap. I haven't seen a screen that bad in years. Maybe it's because I have professional IPS monitors at home. The nook color screen is simply stunning and easy on the eyes at any angle on the lowest brightness setting. It will burn out your retinas at the highest.

Great Product!
I've been on a quest for an Android Tablet before Christmas. I bought and returned the Viewsonic G-Tablet. Horrendous viewing angles, heavy to hold (weighs 1.55 lbs) and cost $379-$399. I returned my Archos 70, which cost me $301.99 with shipping. I think I finally found my tablet, the Nook Color. Once it got rooted, it was a no brainer. GORGEOUS SCREEN, 512 MB RAM, easy to carry, great customer support from Barnes and Noble (I purchased the 2 year additional warranty $54) and pretty good Out of the Box (OTM) software. I know more better Android tablets will be coming out next year, but for $250, you can't go wrong with a quality product like the Nook Color and the customer support service of B&N. Great product =)

bruce, thank you for this update. i have really been looking at all the tablets, I know the holy grail is honeycomb, but i don't think that is reality until next summer and I don't want to wait. I have been looking at all these inexpensive tablets from china, there is one I saw on androidforums with gps that sounded good, but the nook so far seems good.
After you root, does this still work as an e reader? Also, how hard is this to root for someone technical, but has never rooted a device (i used to work on unix computers 20 years ago)? Is there easy step by step instructions? Thanks again.

I haven't exhaustively compared the other options on the market right now, but my intuition is that the NC is the best on the market as far as price-point and build-quality, but there is no market access and limited app support.
By the time development really gets going on a NC rom, i predict that we will have competitive alternatives, either from brand name manufacturers (Asus), or no-name Chinese manufacturers (right now the Chinese tablets are held back by their resistive touchscreens.) And these alternatives will presumably have dedicated android buttons, which the NC does not.
If you need a tablet right now, and are a tinkerer, then the NC is the way to go. If you want a more full-featured and robust solution, we are going to see compelling alternatives in the 6-10 month time frame, I predict.

I don't think it will take 6-10 months for custom ROMs and Market access.

Alternative Nexus 7 Install in a Car

Alright, so this is actual a tablet install I had done previously with a Huawei S7 tablet a year and a half ago. It's gone through a few stages from 'eh, it works but it's ugly' to 'well that looks alright', and after I got an additional N7 to install, I think it's about read to share (But it's not 100% done)
The clock in my WRX was dead, and I really loved the torque app, so previously I cut an extra clock pod to hold a tablet, running power from the cig lighter below. It got horrible battery time, and the screen was dull, but it worked. Hooray for 2.2 tablet crapiness.
Now, I have a metal frame secured to the AC vents below the pod, with med. gauge wire securing it to the tubes running below it since the vents would flex when the actuator moved the tablet.
The tablet raises via a switch on my center console. I have a Pulse Width Modulation generator in the clock pod area, which generates a signal to an actuator based on the resistance between 2 pins. With 2 resistors wired in parallel (2 pots actually) and a switch at one of the resistors, I can change the resistance and have 2 adjustable points the actuator raises to. This allows me to raise the tablet by clicking a button.
The power is tied into the clock pod via a 12v to 5v 3A switching converter. This allows switched power to the actuators, tablet, and an auxiliary port I have in my center console, as well as give plenty of juice. The N7 is set so it turns on when there is power to it, and shuts off when it has been sitting idle for a few hours.
I still need to cut my old clock pod to cover the gaps along the edges, and use cloth underneath the tablet and on the back so that the wires are hidden, and it's not readily apparent I have a tablet in the car (one of my goals was not to have to hide it to keep from getting stolen).
I still don't have my appropriate right angle USB cable, which is why I am using just a standard cable in the photo. A right angle will be hidden in the sides, so it won't be visable unlike the cable I have now. I also plan to imbed a magnet so I can utilize the N7's automatic sleeping when it's laying down flat.
Bear in mind I do NOT want the tablet to play music. It's there for the torque app and navigation.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Pics here:
http://imgur.com/Nk2MV0H,KN4fUju#1

AWESOME!! I also have a WRX (03) and was thinking of doing nearly the exact same thing only with an old smartphone (droid incredible), mainly because I didn't think a 7 inch tablet would fit in there. I'd love to hear more about all the parts you used and how/where you mounted them exactly. I am especially interested in the actuator you used.
I looked a little bit but didn't find anything I thought would package well or was affordable enough. I had finally settled on trying to use a pneumatic actuator that would pull vacuum from the engine with a check valve (for when under boost) to raise the screen when the car starts, and a solenoid system that would bleed the vacuum off when the car shuts off to lower the screen. I can't be sure that the vacuum of the engine would be enough to pull the actuator though, so I kind of tabled the idea.
One idea I saw somewhere that you might be interested in was someone used the app Tasker to turn on and off the tablet when the car was switched on and off. This eliminates having the tablet wait for hours before switching off. You could also set it to turn airplane mode on after a set amount of time to save battery as well I'd imagine.
IMO this is much better than replacing my head unit and trying to get everything to work, with this I can stream music and navigation prompts via the head unit's bluetooth and still have my phone connected for calls through the handsfree setup. Thanks for the inspiration, I'm very likely going this route now!

NemesisXV6800 said:
AWESOME!! I also have a WRX (03) and was thinking of doing nearly the exact same thing only with an old smartphone (droid incredible), mainly because I didn't think a 7 inch tablet would fit in there. I'd love to hear more about all the parts you used and how/where you mounted them exactly. I am especially interested in the actuator you used.
I looked a little bit but didn't find anything I thought would package well or was affordable enough. I had finally settled on trying to use a pneumatic actuator that would pull vacuum from the engine with a check valve (for when under boost) to raise the screen when the car starts, and a solenoid system that would bleed the vacuum off when the car shuts off to lower the screen. I can't be sure that the vacuum of the engine would be enough to pull the actuator though, so I kind of tabled the idea.
One idea I saw somewhere that you might be interested in was someone used the app Tasker to turn on and off the tablet when the car was switched on and off. This eliminates having the tablet wait for hours before switching off. You could also set it to turn airplane mode on after a set amount of time to save battery as well I'd imagine.
IMO this is much better than replacing my head unit and trying to get everything to work, with this I can stream music and navigation prompts via the head unit's bluetooth and still have my phone connected for calls through the handsfree setup. Thanks for the inspiration, I'm very likely going this route now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The actuator I used is a Firgelli.
http://www.robotshop.com/firgelli-technologies-L12-100-210-06-P.html
I puttered around with servos for a while before deciding I was already committed with my time and spent the money for a good actuator. If you look on RC websites you can usually snag one for about 50-60 used. Because of the placement of the actuator, I needed somewhere around 6lbs of force static. I couldn't find a servo capable of it; so I got the low geared actuator which actually provides some decent speed to lift it.
I then used this to control it using the method described in my post.
http://www.hansenhobbies.com/products/rcelkits/sckit/
The frame and everything else was handmade (Hence it still needing some tightening up on being level, mainly because the vent is a curved surface). Mounting to the AC vent is a pain, but the only route if you go this way. I ran heavy wires from the mounting point on the vent to the tube running underneath them to keep the vents from flexing when the actuator moves. The only thing worth noting is that temperature slightly changes the resistance and sometimes it will vary by a few degrees at the top of the rotation if it's cold out. Not a huge deal.
The tablet sleeps most the time, and will automatically either wake up or start up when the car starts. It can sleep all night and not even lost 1% on the battery
Good luck!

Interesting about mounting to the vent, I was going to try to mount to the steel tube underneath there that holds the dash (using a clamp), but maybe there just isn't enough access to it to do that. I am going to fire up Solidworks later tonight and hopefully get started on a mount/tilt system that I thought up yesterday. I found a .stl file of the tablet to start with, but modeling up the dash isn't going to be extremely straightforward. Please keep us updated, I'd love to watch your progress. Thanks for the inspiration..

NemesisXV6800 said:
Interesting about mounting to the vent, I was going to try to mount to the steel tube underneath there that holds the dash (using a clamp), but maybe there just isn't enough access to it to do that. I am going to fire up Solidworks later tonight and hopefully get started on a mount/tilt system that I thought up yesterday. I found a .stl file of the tablet to start with, but modeling up the dash isn't going to be extremely straightforward. Please keep us updated, I'd love to watch your progress. Thanks for the inspiration..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There isn't a lot of room at all; I originally wanted to mount to something more secure but it's tight in there; the actuator itself is maybe .5" X .5" and it was tight getting it to mount to the tube underneath. I had to remove the glove box, and use a pipe clamp to finally get it secured.

Proper Android Auto headunits

Have just returned my Xtrons unit due to various issues, and looking to change it for a proper Android Auto unit.
Had a look at the Pioneer AVH-X8700BT and quite disappointed, horrible buttons and a creaky flexy facia, and the onscreen menus etc are cluttered and unintuitive. This is a shame as I could have got 20%/£100 off in Halfords.
So interested to hear from anyone who has tried the others. I keep seeing comments about a JBL unit but it seems the launch date keeps getting shoved back. Kenwood - I've not found much about these but not hugely impressed by the look of the on screen menus in the static photos.
The one that has really got my attention is the Sony XAV-AX100 that has supposedly just been released. The unit looks smart and doesn't appear to need neon footwell lamps and extra boost gauges to complement it, (!) and the Sony menus have similar clean/uncluttered look like the Android Auto section. Apparently its only available via Sony Centres and both my local stores haven't come back yet with availability

I agree with your analysis of the options but i don't think the Sony product is released until December:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01LY8222N/geizhals07-21/ref=nosim?m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

I personally got the Pioneer F88DAB (which is a european model) and I like the way it works. the menu is working quite well and I like the fact that I am able to adjust the screen tilt.
Android Auto works great at the device and I will upload a video of the device with android auto, so you can see how the menu and all the functions look like.
amazon

that JBL has been pushed back so many times, I would not have any faith in it. The top of the line Kenwood is over a grand, but I have seen some really good reviews on it and few bad reviews. That was my backup plan if I didn't like my Joying, but I love my Joying

Sir_Nomad49 said:
I personally got the Pioneer F88DAB ...amazon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At £850, it's poor value - you could professionally install a tablet for a lot less. I think I'll wait for the Sony for x-mas

kc1 said:
At £850, it's poor value - you could professionally install a tablet for a lot less. I think I'll wait for the Sony for x-mas
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is true, but it was easier to install and I personally like the interface of it.
The Sony is a good choice. With a pioneer device you can use appradio or mirra cast.
When I am home, I will upload a video on how it is usable.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using XDA Free mobile app

kc1 said:
I agree with your analysis of the options but i don't think the Sony product is released until December:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01LY8222N/geizhals07-21/ref=nosim?m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm also looking forward to getting the Sony unit later this year. :good:

CayenneGTS said:
I'm also looking forward to getting the Sony unit later this year. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like it's available to order now
http://amzn.eu/1V2elbz
http://a.co/byhPOFu

Sir_Nomad49 said:
I personally got the Pioneer F88DAB (which is a european model) and I like the way it works. the menu is working quite well and I like the fact that I am able to adjust the screen tilt.
Android Auto works great at the device and I will upload a video of the device with android auto, so you can see how the menu and all the functions look like.
amazon
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the previous model the Pioneer F77 DAB. Works very well. Back in the day halfords had it for something over £800 then by accident halfords listed at £600 so reserved one sharpish. Couple of days later it was back at its original price. I think someone had cocked up.
Far as android auto is concerned it works faultlessly. It's pretty quick booting up from off and reverse camera works straight away, not having to wait for unit to boot. Occasionally when turning vehicle key to on unit comes on as normal but if you then hesitate to start engine it seems to crash and take maybe a minute to boot again. Even reverse camera does not work when this happens. Unit comes on when key is turned to power but cranking engine robs power from unit so it turns off and on again. The crash is something to do with the stage of boot when power drops. In all the time I've had it, it has only happened maybe half a dozen times. Other than this it works faultlessly. Pioneer want stupid money for mapping updates for the built in satnav on the downside but half the time I use Google maps in AA for quickness. Pioneer has an app to connect the phone to on board sat navigation - AVICSYNC. It works but is very clunky. Waiting for Waze to become AA compatible but not holding my breath on that one.

Well after failing miserably with two local Sony centres and also Sony online, I managed to find the unit for sale on Amazon! I'd set my heart on it and after three months with a gaping hole in the dashboard, its finally fitted!
First of all, its single DIN behind the facia so plenty of room for wiring looms, and simply slides in unlike the Android units that would need 30 minutes of trying to pull the cables around and still failing to get the facia flush. Also, as expected, it comes with a cage and standard mounting brackets so no bodging needed. Once fitted the unit sits neatly within the existing double din facia.
It starts up fast, works with my factory fitted reversing camera (unlike the Android units) and is simple to navigate. I was concerned about the 'cheap' resistive screen, but its actually very responsive and only needs a light touch.
The only issues I have so far;
1) The volume control knob needs a fair bit of spinning, it needs two or three goes to crank the volume down. I need to check the settings again to see if you can make the adjustment less fine.
2) If I connect the phone and play music on Spotify, and then start the engine, the unit powers down as normal during engine start. When it resumes, the music starts playing on the phone...I have to swipe across to a second screen and press a '+' speaker button to get the audio back through the vehicle speakers. A bug with my phone, or the radio? Something to look in to.
3) There is a limit to how many menu presses you can navigate, and unlike running Android Auto on the phone, instead of a momentary warning, it sticks until you navigate back home. Thats fine, although really irritating if your passenger is trying to find some tunes. But it does the same when stationary...I'm sure my handbrake is wired correctly but regardless, I'll be over-riding that feature as its in a campervan and I normally have a passenger!
4) Just to answer my own questions about the unit; No, the facia is not removable. No, it doesn't come with a remote control (a shame for a campervan!) And unlike the Android units, everything works seamlessly. i.e it doesn't freeze or get laggy, you don't need to wait ages for the unit to boot or Google Maps to load, and if you start the radio, Spotify etc will stop, rather than having two lots of audio competing for your attention

Spooky_b329 said:
3) There is a limit to how many menu presses you can navigate, and unlike running Android Auto on the phone, instead of a momentary warning, it sticks until you navigate back home. Thats fine, although really irritating if your passenger is trying to find some tunes. But it does the same when stationary...I'm sure my handbrake is wired correctly but regardless, I'll be over-riding that feature as its in a campervan and I normally have a passenger!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android Auto uses the phones GPS and maybe accelerometer to know when you've stopped.
On my Kenwood unit the handbrake sensor is grounded all the time and I still get that message.

Spooky_b329 said:
Well after failing miserably with two local Sony centres and also Sony online, I managed to find the unit for sale on Amazon! I'd set my heart on it and after three months with a gaping hole in the dashboard, its finally fitted!
First of all, its single DIN behind the facia so plenty of room for wiring looms, and simply slides in unlike the Android units that would need 30 minutes of trying to pull the cables around and still failing to get the facia flush. Also, as expected, it comes with a cage and standard mounting brackets so no bodging needed. Once fitted the unit sits neatly within the existing double din facia.
It starts up fast, works with my factory fitted reversing camera (unlike the Android units) and is simple to navigate. I was concerned about the 'cheap' resistive screen, but its actually very responsive and only needs a light touch.
The only issues I have so far;
1) The volume control knob needs a fair bit of spinning, it needs two or three goes to crank the volume down. I need to check the settings again to see if you can make the adjustment less fine.
2) If I connect the phone and play music on Spotify, and then start the engine, the unit powers down as normal during engine start. When it resumes, the music starts playing on the phone...I have to swipe across to a second screen and press a '+' speaker button to get the audio back through the vehicle speakers. A bug with my phone, or the radio? Something to look in to.
3) There is a limit to how many menu presses you can navigate, and unlike running Android Auto on the phone, instead of a momentary warning, it sticks until you navigate back home. Thats fine, although really irritating if your passenger is trying to find some tunes. But it does the same when stationary...I'm sure my handbrake is wired correctly but regardless, I'll be over-riding that feature as its in a campervan and I normally have a passenger!
4) Just to answer my own questions about the unit; No, the facia is not removable. No, it doesn't come with a remote control (a shame for a campervan!) And unlike the Android units, everything works seamlessly. i.e it doesn't freeze or get laggy, you don't need to wait ages for the unit to boot or Google Maps to load, and if you start the radio, Spotify etc will stop, rather than having two lots of audio competing for your attention
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Re "And unlike the Android units, everything works seamlessly", not true - please see your points 1 and 2 !!
Re "unlike the Android units . . . it doesn't freeze or get laggy, you don't need to wait ages for the unit to boot or Google Maps to load", Android units per se dont have this problem, one particular type, with only 1GB RAM, Lollipop and a later version of Google Maps does, this can easily be sorted.
Glad youre happy with your new unit, enjoy.

Spooky_b329 said:
Well after failing miserably with two local Sony centres and also Sony online, I managed to find the unit for sale on Amazon! I'd set my heart on it and after three months with a gaping hole in the dashboard, its finally fitted!
First of all, its single DIN behind the facia so plenty of room for wiring looms, and simply slides in unlike the Android units that would need 30 minutes of trying to pull the cables around and still failing to get the facia flush. Also, as expected, it comes with a cage and standard mounting brackets so no bodging needed. Once fitted the unit sits neatly within the existing double din facia.
It starts up fast, works with my factory fitted reversing camera (unlike the Android units) and is simple to navigate. I was concerned about the 'cheap' resistive screen, but its actually very responsive and only needs a light touch.
The only issues I have so far;
1) The volume control knob needs a fair bit of spinning, it needs two or three goes to crank the volume down. I need to check the settings again to see if you can make the adjustment less fine.
2) If I connect the phone and play music on Spotify, and then start the engine, the unit powers down as normal during engine start. When it resumes, the music starts playing on the phone...I have to swipe across to a second screen and press a '+' speaker button to get the audio back through the vehicle speakers. A bug with my phone, or the radio? Something to look in to.
3) There is a limit to how many menu presses you can navigate, and unlike running Android Auto on the phone, instead of a momentary warning, it sticks until you navigate back home. Thats fine, although really irritating if your passenger is trying to find some tunes. But it does the same when stationary...I'm sure my handbrake is wired correctly but regardless, I'll be over-riding that feature as its in a campervan and I normally have a passenger!
4) Just to answer my own questions about the unit; No, the facia is not removable. No, it doesn't come with a remote control (a shame for a campervan!) And unlike the Android units, everything works seamlessly. i.e it doesn't freeze or get laggy, you don't need to wait ages for the unit to boot or Google Maps to load, and if you start the radio, Spotify etc will stop, rather than having two lots of audio competing for your attention
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My unit came with a remote. I also find what I believe is a software bug, if you turn on the dimmer the maps will always be in night mode.

leonkernan said:
Android Auto uses the phones GPS and maybe accelerometer to know when you've stopped.
On my Kenwood unit the handbrake sensor is grounded all the time and I still get that message.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got the same issue. As of 2.0 Android Auto uses the head units' GPS data. If your head unit doesn't have built in navigation (GPS), it won't remove the limitation even if stationary.
Link: https://productforums.google.com/d/msg/android-auto/8mvJEDnJUpU/pmejOMunAgAJ

terre08 said:
My unit came with a remote. I also find what I believe is a software bug, if you turn on the dimmer the maps will always be in night mode.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found out it's by design by reading the user manual a bit better. The dimmer is connected to the headlights and when you turn on the lights it will go into night mode, unfortunately I use the lights 24/7 so I will install a toggle switch instead to turn on/off the daylight and the night mode. Pioneer has a a similar setting using the headlights but they also have a setting where you can set the time for night mode, hopefully Sony will have something similar in a future update.

Thanks for the replies!
I've worked out that the unit is detecting the handbrake as the video playback from an SD card is interrupted. I see the comment about the Sony not having built in GPS causing Android Auto to keep the 6 press limit, thats annoying, lets hope its fixed in an update. Surely it can use my phones GPS signal to work out when I'm stopped!
Terre08, I'll send you a PM regarding your remote...interesting!

8inch vw RK3188 wheelkey issue

Hi there, i am not too sure if i need to start a new topic, but i guess this is the best way to get your expertise on my issue.
I am driving a seat leon 1p (2008) which had the RNS510 (seat media system so whitout the sd card slot) built in. Sadly the display died (full white) and i had to search for something else.
I bought me a RK3188 device (it says ERISIN in the advert, i cannot find that name on the box or device itself) with a load of nice features. Most of them are working like they should, others have some hickups and 1 is really bothering me. I have made a youtube video and the seller says they don't see whats wrong. I bought it trough eunavi on aliexpress.
Here my explanation, the leon is fitted with a large dot matrix mfd screen in the dashboard (boardcomputer) (there are versions with a smaller display)
the big display is served with the windscreen wiper handle, which has 3 buttons, up, down, and ok/reset.
When i want to reset my computer (trip, avg fuel etc.) i need to press the reset button about 3 seconds. the radio then decides to shutdown... once i release the reset button, the radio decides it doesnt want to shutdown.
Quite weird in my opinion. So i tried programming the wheelkey settings, according to the manual. first i go into wheelkey settings, then i press clear / reset.. then i need to press any wheelkey (so allso the volume up / down, next, previous etc etc.) the radio does respond to that, but not with the wheelkey settings programme. I'll try to add the youtube link here as well.
next to this, some weird things happen.
1.The display is way too bright, so i asked the seller what to do, they told me they will send a new display which i should fit myself. In my opinion not the best solution from a shop but i understand their marigins aren't enormous and they try to fix it cheap. the display hasn't arrived yet so i can't say if the new display gives the solution for me.
2. when i have the tuner on, with af-rds function, it seems to scan to any rds station once the signal gets weak. Maybe i'm spoiled, but i think AF needs to search for the station with the same ID as the one i was tuned in to.
3. the dab+ dongle and window antenna give poor reception now. this is presumeably caused by the way i fitted the aerial, on top of the ventilation shafts behind the dashboard. I want to move the antenna to behind the rear view mirror (horizontally) which will hopefully give good reception. (does anyone know if horizontal positioning of the antenna is okay for dab+ ?)
<- the issue with the MFD input
<- the whiteness of the display (cannot be edited with standard settings) it was quite cold when i made this video, it seems it is a little better now or i am getting used to it
so quite a long story and i have my fingers crossed on your response !
maybe good to let you know:
MCU version
MTCD_LM_V1.90_1
sep 23 2016 09:37:48
Android-sersion
5.1.1
Kernel-version
3.0.101+
[email protected] #90
Fri Sep 9 16:24:49 CST 2016
Build-number
rk3188-userdebug 23092016.13:30:50