Its great we ve FINALLY got our own thread and sub forums, but we seem to have gone from one extreme to the other, now instead of one extremely large thread thats difficult to navigate, we have way too many fourms, sub forums and threads that are now far, far too time consuming to navigate due to the shear amount of them - the time taken checking each of the separate forums, threads and sub threads will end up being the same or longer than it was searching the entire previous massive thread. Users wishing to help others will have to spend ages checking each forum for questions they can answer. There also appears to already be instances of threads opened for one manufacturer that actually applies to all versions.
Am I the only one thinking this ?
lol @typos1. I sort of agree, but at the same time, it's better for organizing different information. If I want to quickly look up a hardware mod, I don't have to sift through hundreds of search results in the monolithic thread.
It'll definitely take some getting used to, but I think the change will ultimately be positive.
Yeah, I know the idea, but its more extreme than I expected.
I think there should be a general discussion thread that people "land" on and then go to other threads/sub forums after for advice/more info/general MTC headunit news - there needs to be a thread similar to the old one, or even the old one re-opened and people could be re-directed to relevant posts/threads. I ve already had one well known poster message me about there no longer being anywhere for them to post and we really dont wanna be losing their contributions.
typos1 said:
Yeah, I know the idea, but its more extreme than I expected.
I think there should be a general discussion thread that people "land" on and then go to other threads/sub forums after for advice/more info/general MTC headunit news - there needs to be a thread similar to the old one, or even the old one re-opened and people could be re-directed to relevant posts/threads. I ve already had one well known poster message me about there no longer being anywhere for them to post and we really dont wanna be losing their contributions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think part of the issue is the XDA redesign; device forums now land you on this "overview" page, with the main sub-forums, and then threads beneath those. The MTCB* subs should really be a top-level device page, with the individual General/Q&A/Dev/Software-Apps sub-forums beneath that. Like:
Code:
xda-developers ->
MTCB Headunits ->
\ General
\ Q&A
\ Dev
\ Software & Apps
agentdr8 said:
I think part of the issue is the XDA redesign; device forums now land you on this "overview" page, with the main sub-forums, and then threads beneath those. The MTCB* subs should really be a top-level device page, with the individual General/Q&A/Dev/Software-Apps sub-forums beneath that. Like:
Code:
xda-developers ->
MTCB Headunits ->
\ General
\ Q&A
\ Dev
\ Software & Apps
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Click to collapse
Yeah that would be MUCH better.
Yeah I really don't know if this was any better. One forum would have been manageable, this is insane.
agentdr8 said:
I think part of the issue is the XDA redesign; device forums now land you on this "overview" page, with the main sub-forums, and then threads beneath those. The MTCB* subs should really be a top-level device page, with the individual General/Q&A/Dev/Software-Apps sub-forums beneath that. Like:
Code:
xda-developers ->
MTCB Headunits ->
\ General
\ Q&A
\ Dev
\ Software & Apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that what you have got..?
But just with MTCB in front of it..
Don't you think it's better now that you can ...
Subscribe to a post in a forum about that particular subject/hardware mod..?
As I do for about 10 other devices and mainline foums I follow..so when I use tapatalk (when its working )
I have them all laid out in front of me..
Jezz is that poster for real..suggesting that a over 2,000 post thread is better then what we have got now..
Think about it..give it a few months and it would have been 4,000 posts in one thread..
Let this settle..quit *****ing and thanks to the guys for letting it happen..
Easy fix... Subscribe to the thread you are interested in..done..no more digging and you have it locked in..not that hard really..
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
dgcruzing said:
Isn't that what you have got..?
But just with MTCB in front of it..
Don't you think it's better now that you can ...
Subscribe to a post in a forum about that particular subject/hardware mod..?
As I do for about 10 other devices and mainline foums I follow..so when I use tapatalk (when its working )
I have them all laid out in front of me..
Jezz is that poster for real..suggesting that a over 2,000 post thread is better then what we have got now..
Think about it..give it a few months and it would have been 4,000 posts in one thread..
Let this settle..quit *****ing and thanks to the guys for letting it happen..
Easy fix... Subscribe to the thread you are interested in..done..no more digging and you have it locked in..not that hard really..
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not "*****ing" but valid criticism, things are more difficult and more complex than they were before, theres far too many threads and forums to keep track of everything, as I said, things have gone from one extreme to the other and theres seems to be a total lack of moderation - theres a thread for Joying units when Joying simply re-sell Joyous units, you think a moderator would allow an "Amazon Glaxy S6" thread in the smartphones section ? It would be merged or closed cos of dupilcation. I wanna keep abreast of all the latest develoment and now I have to spend a HELL of a lot more time checking multiple threads to do that, whereas before I had just one thread to read. I ve been participating in the the original thread for the last 2 years I ve often called for a proper forum for these units, but as I said in my post, we ve gone from one extreme to the other and things are worse than they were previously, I d never have called for our own forum if I knew things would be like this.
typos1 said:
Not "*****ing" but valid criticism, things are more difficult and more complex than they were before, theres far too many threads and forums to keep track of everything, as I said, things have gone from one extreme to the other and theres seems to be a total lack of moderation - theres a thread for Joying units when Joying simply re-sell Joyous units, you think a moderator would allow an "Amazon Glaxy S6" thread in the smartphones section ? It would be merged or closed cos of dupilcation. I wanna keep abreast of all the latest develoment and now I have to spend a HELL of a lot more time checking multiple threads to do that, whereas before I had just one thread to read. I ve been participating in the the original thread for the last 2 years I ve often called for a proper forum for these units, but as I said in my post, we ve gone from one extreme to the other and things are worse than they were previously, I d never have called for our own forum if I knew things would be like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.
I think you are missing the point...
Granted you have been in that same thread for two years..and you have got a handle on it..
But what about the thousands of users that are going to be looking for the same answers that are getting mapped out in their own [email protected] threads.
Let's revisit this again in a few months and see how we are going..
All good ...
Sent from my TF300T using Tapatalk
dgcruzing said:
I think you are missing the point...
Granted you have been in that same thread for two years..and you have got a handle on it..
But what about the thousands of users that are going to be looking for the same answers that are getting mapped out in their own [email protected] threads.
Let's revisit this again in a few months and see how we are going..
All good ...
Sent from my TF300T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you have TOTALLY missed my point - its partly them I m thinking about, theres stuff theyre never gonna know cos they dont realise that their JY unit is effectively the same as a KGL unit so they wont check the KGL thread cos as far as theyre aware they dont have one of those. The MASSIVE thread that was running for 2 years proves that hardly anyone bothers to read the first posts/sticky, so its highly unlikely they ll ever realise . . . and yet, they might well decide theyd prefer the KGL ROM, or the KLD built in apps, for instance, but they may never know about it or that they can use it.
We need multiple threads relating to different branded/manufacturer's units merged, because they are effectively the same product. Similarly, software mods apply to all versions, so threads for instance, about apps or a ROM for JY units (probably started by well meaning, but less knowledgeable posters) should be merged or re-titled because the software can be run on ANY MTCB headunit type with matching processor/screen res (with the exception of some screen mirroring apps for the RK3188 which wont run on RK3066 versions). But separate hardware mod threads like for example, how to do the mic mod to JY version - which is slightly different to the mic mod for a KGL version, which in turn is slightly different to the one for KLD version - left alone as this is done to the slight hardware differences between the different units.
Whats needed is a half way house between one massive thread and multiple forums and threads weve suddenly got now.
BTW, you DONT have a "CarJoying" unit, CarJoying are simply re-sellers of units made by Shenzhen Joyous, your unit is no more a "CarJoying" unit than a Galaxy S6 bought from Amazon is an "Amazon" Galaxy S6 - you have a Joyous unit, or a JY. I think this kinda proves my point.
Soon, there ll be "CarJoying" threads and JY threads for units that are identical ! - MADNESS. Needs to be sorted.
My opinion on forum & threads
--
Not to knock all the effort that has gone into splitting off the massive thread, I agree with the sentiments posted here
Dedicated forum was good in theory...
Perhaps I'm just old and used to how it was
Okay let me sort out some things:
We were fighting for our own section a logn time on the main thread. Now we goot it you don't want them anymore...
Wow...
Okay to come to your arguments:
I told @MikeChannon it would be better to have a "device" but he decided to do it that way as it's fitting better here.
Of course we can reopen the main thread but it's better to have knowledge separated.
What do you guys think about this:
Re-Open the Main thread for general questions (e.g. searching for information).
Leave the rest as it is and especially leave the information (knowledge) at their own threads.
It is much easier to find things like Apps, Mods, ROMs etc in that strucutre as it was in this big thread. also it's easier to follow specific topics.
What I agree with you is that it's harder to keep track of the mass of new thread or of greater masses of topics.
You now don't have one thread bloated with masses of information but four sections with "masses" of threads.
I am sure @MikeChannon will have a look into this thread and I hope he will think about changing our section to a device section again.
It really is a bit irritating to have our forums directly next to the other Android Auto sections.
I suggested to do things that way: XDA -> Android Auto -> MTCB -> Sections here but Mike told me there is a problem with some mobile apps when having forums deeper than two levels.
//Edit:
I also received a PN suggesting to reduce the number of forums.
Let's discuss that here please.
What would you want? Just split up into Knowledge and Q&A? Or even just one big forum with everything in it? But I think that yould be too mixed up then. I would suggest - if we decide to request to change the structure again that we leave at least Q&A and Knowledge sepearated.
When it comes to the issue that people split up between pumpkin, klyde etc I can ask Mike to change the info box above the forums.
Please also note that some of those mentioned threads are from the past? I moved them here from android auto section as it's of course also MTCB.
Honestly I don't know what the fuss is about..apart from a individual not wanting problems he has brought in the main thread started as a thread.. If that's the case then 'can' those threads and let nature take its course..
as am example..and laid out pretty much as a dummies guide to how XDA has always been once a piece of equipment warrents its own sub-forums.. And note.. It not just a joy thing..any of these sub forums can morf in the " best of'.. Ie.. If a super manufacture comes along and blows everyone out of the water then..there will be roms, software and [email protected] going for them under these very sub forums..
K.. So lets use some examples..
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
The sub forums as they stand..
Right let's go and have a look at the Samsung S5 forums..as they stand..
K...to keep this debate fair..let's throw in a few more that I personally follow.. Via mostly the tapatalk app..
So with the understanding that as Mike has pointed out..going deeper then 2 layers causes problems for mobile.. We can see a very clear pattern that is emerging..
So lets revisit how it is now and take in to account..with a little more modding (and don't get me started on that unless you want to put your hand up to be a mod.. I haven't as I have another life outside XDA forums.. But with that in mind..I take my hat off to mods who give thier free time to keep such threads under control..a thankless task..)
Anyway..back on track..back to where we stand..
So tell me after viewing my post what is so vastly different then any other device that gets a huge following..zip..zilch..
We now have a well laid out plan of sub forums in which an organic growth of inputs can be directed..instead of a unwieldy huge thread that contains posts of hardware mods..software and roms..
As stated..let it ride for a few more months to sort its self out..
Wipe the threads that people want wiped as for sure the same question is going to pop up and it will be answered.
--
I suppose it was inevitable that things would not work perfectly in everyone's mind with this transition. Probably it shouldn't have been allowed to get as far as it did before some additional forums were set up. (unavoidably therefore some people are going to say, "I only had one place to look in before, now I've got several places to look, this isn't better, it's worse"). This always happens when a device(s) grows in interest to a point where it has to be split.
The forums that were created are broadly the same as for any other device here at XDA. In fact devices also have separate themes and Apps and Accessories forums in addition. What may make it appear different is the fact these new forums are coming under Android Auto which isn't technically correct and we may sort that out, but essentially you now have very similar forums to other devices.
I know for some who had lived with the old enormous thread and knew where things were, this was bound to feel like disorganisation rather that making life simpler. However, I received numerous complaints that things were getting messy and impossible to find because they were not categorized into standard forums with shorter threads.
That said, if you want a general thread as someone suggested, then have one.
I saw someone suggest that several devices use the same software and don't need separate threads. I understand that although that's a difficult message to get across to newer users who don't realize this and create new threads. It may sound simple to merge such threads together but merging causes confusion as they merge in date order and and you end up with a mess of posts that don't follow each other and make sense anymore. My experience also tells me that when we've tried merging in the past we get angry users saying things like "you might think these devices are the same or use the same software but you are wrong, there are subtle and important differences and I created a new thread for a reason!!!, now you merged it and created a mess". Not sure I have an easy answer to this point.
I saw a user above say he wasn't happy with his posts being separated out into different threads though he did understand it was for good intentions. From my point of view I don't mind if certain posts are copied back to the huge thread but keep in mind we're all trying to create something that will work going forward for new users and for people who are familiar with our standard types of forum.
I'm not sure of the value in re-opening the long thread. I'm not against it as a sort of general discussion place, but I feel that distinct items shoould now be entered in the appropriate forum.
Overall, the feedback I've had is positive. Generally folk say they now know where to look even if it does mean watching/bookmarking more than one thread/forum. Painful for some but it was always going to happen with a popular type of device. You know before, (and I use a head unit myself), there is no way on earth I would have attempted to read through a 2100 page thread, but after these new forums/threads have been created I've begun to take an interest. This is important, people arriving here as new users and from other device forums expect to find things appropriately organized and in a fairly standard way, although I completely understand that this will be annoying and feel like extra work finding things for those that built up the existing long threads. We need to give it time I think and let it settle. That's not to say you can't discuss specific things with Alex who can move or copy things to achieve best results... keep in mind though that we do need ultimately to split things up even if we need to feel our way a bit for a while.
Mike
First of all thanks for your thoughts and statement on this, Mike.
MikeChannon said:
I'm not sure of the value in re-opening the long thread. I'm not against it as a sort of general discussion place, but I feel that distinct items shoould now be entered in the appropriate forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I comply with this 100%.
What do you guys think about that: Keep the old ultrabig thread closed but create a new one in Q&A for people feeling lost.
Its meant for people searching for directions and for simple minimalistic questions.
A second thread could be for choosing the right unit and questions a la "Is this a MTCB unit".
Both could be pinned for easy access and good presence.
What is the exact reasons why you would like to have the old thread reopened? Can't we achieve this on another way?
--
dsa8310 said:
.
I have noticed that I have become, over night, the author of five OPs. I'm flattered. Unfortunately only two of them are remotely related or relevant to my work, and in any case I would organize things entirely differently. So please remove me from those threads. Please move the posts back to the general old thread so that they are not lost. Those threads are of no interest to nobody.
]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Done.
Mike
Related
Okay, this post is really intended as a comment and I am not going to pretend I have THE answer but I do have some suggestions to spark discussion.
Based on a lot of the recent comments and back and forth about newbies/tech support I think that the forum is trending the same way I have seen MANY other forums go. What happens is simple; a group of first adopters, who are by default, technically capable, get together on a forum and start to fill in the gaps in tech support, especially when it comes to 'modded' soft or hardwre. They spend a while helping each other out and a comfort level develops. Members know where to go, and when to ask questions.
Then what happens is that the hardware becomes much more popular. All of a sudden your average Joe can walk out a Cingular store with a 8125 for a couple hundred bucks. These folks are NOT early adopters. They are not necessarily tech savvy. They are the people that are most prone to 'keyboard to chair interface errors'. Since the early members did such a good job raising the profile of the forum it starts to come up every time someone does a Google search. and they all end up over their heads.
So then the folks that have been around for a while start to get frustrated. Why should they provide tech support? Why can't these newbies read? Why should they even try to help if they get barraged by stupid questions?
Well I think that takes us to where we are now, so the question is what do we do now? In my experience the only solution that I have seen is to have people equally dedicated to wiki and sticky writing as they are to writing ROMs and programs. The truth is that if you release something you WILL become tech support and a large part of tech support is writing documentation and then explaining it to others.
I have intended this post as something helpful and to spark discussion, not as a criticism of anyone in particular or any particular group. Hopefully it will be taken as such
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
d0ug said:
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you d0ug! It is rather confusing to navigate and find your way. Especially when you are a n00b, such as myself. I have been trying to mod my phone for 3 days now. I have tried many ways of unlocking my G3, but none of them have worked. I have listened to 3 different people tell me their "way" of unlocking the phone, and all 3 attempts failed in the end. I get flamed for not reading posts or searching, when i did, just nothing relevant popped up! This is not a whine fest, just saying that some people dont have phones that were built on a Wednesday, like mine that was probably built on a Monday and has issues!
Either way, i called Cingular and they are shipping me a brand new 8125 to test things out on!
Canon
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
vijay555 said:
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
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Click to collapse
Vijay, very happy to see that the mods are looking at this. I agree that Wiki's have their limitations especially given the validity of some of the comments about conflicting advice.
The search function definitely does have its limits as well, and people are less likely to go through searches that produce a 100 threads with 5 pages each.
I for one would feel a lot better about telling someone harshly to stop answering questions if I knew that I could also direct them to a single place for answers.
I really love this forum and it has helped me so much. I don't post much except to say "thank you" from time to time to the people who have made some program that has been helpful to me. And although I have been coming to this board every day for over a year I still don't know half as much as the majority of people here.
Some solutions to this problem are:
1) get frustrated and write a mean message to the noob
2) take a minute and just give the link to the page where the answer is
3) make it easier on this forum to find things
_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
vseehua said:
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to see a thread dedicated to G4 devices, with verified correct information in it.
It isnt just people asking the same questions over and over making the search junk. Its the inability to even search for simple short 3 letter acronyms like CID, IPL, SPL, AKU. These are all things I have tried to search for and get 0 results. If I were able to search for these terms I could probably turn up a wealth of information on my own.
_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would work me thinks!!!!!
Hi all,
I've been reading this forum for weeks now and still have not found enough answers to be secure enough and cid-unlock my G3 2.21 vario.
I HAVE indeed read most relevant threads, although navigating them can be somewhat confusing. However When I posted some -in my n00b opinion - valid questions I either got 1) no reply whatsoever 2) replies to read "the" threads....which wasn't really helpfull or I wouldn't have asked 3) contradicting advice .... like a 2.21 G3 Can be unlocked, or it Cannot be unlocked, you have to downgrade twice, you have to upgrade twice, you Can or Cannot flash a G4 rom to a G3 device so you won't have to downgrade and CID unlock your phone first, etc.
I believe that I am somewhat beyond the real n00b level right now but still I'd like information to be more consistent and easier to find, I've already tried to suggest making a stickied n00b FAQ or wiki for us where to find the basic answers in a easy and consistent manner so the sdame questions aren't asked over and over and ROM threads hijacked for support questions.
but that is just my cup of tea.
thanks for a good forum with vlauable info.
stefan.
Regular search
Personally, I find using google or yahoo, with site:xda-developers.com, works much better than the forum search. My personal pet peeve is the inability to use quotes to search for phrases. Quotes don't work.
A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out and ask them to submit a wiki for something they just learned. If we had a submission point for the wiki, perhaps those of us who recently learned new things would do a how-to write-up and submit it to the wiki.
Finally, there are a lot of repeat threads, many with false or useless information. These threads stand in the way of a searcher. I would be happier if the moderators deleted more bad threads. Alternatively, we could use democracy -- add a "vote to delete" button to every thread not posted by a moderator and if a high enough percentage vote to delete, the thread is gone. I'd suggest 20% as a threshold -- more than that and the thread goes away.
Have been reading all your comments and completely agree with you guys... I see you have specific problems on G3/G4 on Wizards, as someone suggested a separate subforum for G4 devices would be ideal for you, and also for Prophet I guess.
About the search functions I'm also using google to search as a fallback when I can't find specific things using vBulletin's integrated search function, there's a thread on the mod forum where we discussed how to improve it, but seems is not very active now... will try to push Flar to do something about that.
Regarding the wiki, I think everyone should be less afraid to edit, if you look at the "recent changes" you see always the same people is editing. Have a look at the Hermes or BlueAngel wiki pages, these are good examples on how info has to be organized on the wiki, it's easy to find everything on the front page and information is well divided. Formating may seem a bit complicated at the beginning, but you don't have to care too much if you just want to add content, sure someone more experienced with wiki syntax will edit and correct any bad formating mistakes.
I do 100% agree with you that the wiki itself doesn't cover half of what it should. Yet if you take the time to read through it, and the links, you should be quite familiar with your device...
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
So, unfortunatly this is going to continue unless you put constraints on the board... I'm sorry, but that's what's gonna happen.
Seems to me that since this was posted the situation has sorta escalated... Faria, Molski, risidoro and just now Dr P has announced their leave.
In this rate all that'll be left will be the newbies soon. Sad to witness
_Nomad_ said:
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
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It's also very human.
_Nomad_ said:
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
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There just should be enough moderators. Now what happens when you write something stupid is you also get useless answers like "don't do that" which just makes everything even worse. There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
Two main things to handle this (just my opinion):
Re-designed forum structure
Moderators
(well, the structure should be designed in the first place so that it would be easy to extend it later...not an easy job)
prestonmcafee said:
...A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out...
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I usually suggest to those asking questions to post the solution to their question in the first post. But I'm over at the Mio forums, and since we only have 4500 peps, the mods aren't overwhelmed. I can lock a thread, post the correct thread to post in, and a few days later, delete the thread. I spend 1/2 my time using the search function to consolidate questions into single threads. But like I said, that's not feasible here. I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
mlehtola said:
There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
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Ummm, have you ever taken the time to look at the Wiki?
This forum is being provided to us basically for free. (Except for voluntary donations.) I personally can't afford to donate $$$ to the community, or for that matter to individual developers, so I dedicate some time to post in the forums to share what I've learned. I have also donated time to updating the Wiki.
If the Wiki doesn't contain all you would like it to, just add it yourself! One brief tutorial could make a world of difference to a newbie, or even a more experienced user. It also helps to point out gaps in the general knowledge we have here in these forums.
If, for example, there isn't a sub-forum for the device you use, you don't have to wait for the moderators, etc. to create it. Just create a Wiki page, and get the ball rolling on your own!
Take the initiative! That's what these forums were founded on!
Just my opinion.
Now go have fun!
JKR said:
I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, you get much better, and more detailed search results by using a search-engine like Google. Their advanced search features do a fantastic job, and can be fine tuned to search only through a specific site. (i.e. http://forum.xdadevelopers.com )
Secondly, as opposed to a PM, possibly an email with a confirmation link after the introductory information.
Hope this helps....
Now go have fun!
I think it is more synonymous of the world today, do you read the manual when you buy a new stereo or mobile phone, or do you dig in saying 'nah i know how it works it'll be ok'. People just dont take the time to understand first, they think they know it all and then the proverbial hits the fan! As an experienced R&D firmware developer it doesn't matter how easy I make the interface you will always get those that stuff it up!
So not such an easy one to fix, you have given the masses a place to ask the ridiculous and the tools to stuff up easily, How do you fix that?
Riptos
As a member for some time, I have seen many people post looking for advice on which ROM might best suit their needs.
Typically the response is anything from a small flame to a raging inferno. The most common response from the learned people here is for the OP to "try them all."
Well, I am finally fed up with those lame and rude responses. You see, there is absolutely nothing wrong with soliciting advice from those who have tried things and ergo have more knowledge and experience. That is why "user reviews" are so important. Think about it, have you ever asked a salesman about a product or do you just try them all? Do you eat everything on a menu, or do you ask the waiter what's good... what would best meet your needs? If you are a normal person, you ask if you have questions!
Also, there is much made about creating different threads asking for the proper advice. Well, the very nature of the request requires a new thread. Each OP might have a different set of preferences that are unique. To use the waiter example: "I don't like salty and greasy foods. I do however like light foods. What would you recommend?" You see how asking for advice has a certain individual and unique set of components?
Some people have told the OP to search and read up on all the ROMs. Well, unless your Einstein or have made ROMS your passion, no sane human can even begin to digest all the information. Some ROMS have hundreds of pages in their thread. One ROM might be a novel to itself. Some people simply don't have 40 hours to read up. Worse yet, those who do have the time, won't have a clue as to which ones to invest it in. Seriously, there are a LOT of ROMs.... with new ones being released almost daily. Unless you live here, you cannot learn about them all.
I think a fair solution would be for the fine people here to focus a bit more on creating a sticky thread of User reviews. However, it has be quite organized and kept current. There is nothing worse than sifting through a couple dozen pages in one ROM thread just to find out the bugs never were addressed in that release, rather the author issued a new separate release.
In conclusion, I think that until ROMs have a better system for Peer Review, which can be easily understood by visitors, people should lay off those seeking advice. Actually, people should be more than willing to be of help and not be so quick to blow the OP off. As for the ROM reviews, I suggest a new sub-forum for just that. It would go a long way to servicing all parties; those who seek advice, those who don't want to see it in these sub-forums, and those who want to help by giving reviews.
Well that is that.
Nice words and I partly applaud, however, you also have to see the other side. Let me reply by copying a user complain and the mod's reply out of his guest comment:
ashleyhall said:
Can I just comment that closing this thread...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443839
...is simply ridiculous. As the owner/moderator of a large internet forum myself, my moderators and I actively encourage discussion and the airing of personal views - if someone asks an opinion, you expect responses based on personal opinion, otherwise what is the point of a forum?!!?
Absolutely ridiculous, bad moderation, pathetic infact, very disappointed...
Regards, Ashley Hall
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JimmyMcGee said:
Ashley,
Thank you for your opinion. The Guidelines for the Kaiser Section were not invented by me solely and for no reason.
The reasons most Kaiser Mods discourage this type of thread, is these threads not only can create hard feelings between chefs but has been known to lead to all out flame wars
If you want to know peoples personal opinions on ROM, you are more than welcome to ask these questions in the ROM thread.
Also, the Kaiser forum is very active and placing peoples opinions of ROMs in the ROM Thread, where the chef can see and respond to such opinions, is more helpful to the community at large.
This guideline was not created to stop person opinions and speech. But to lead to a better organized Forum Section.
Thanks,
Jimmy McGee
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As you see, it is not always easy to justify a thread, especially not if you're talking about a forum with the size of XDA Developers. If people think they want a review of the particular ROM, why not asking directly in the THREAD of that ROM?
"If people think they want a review of the particular ROM, why not asking directly in the THREAD of that ROM"
That only works if you want a review from a SINGLE ROM.
If chefs have that fragile of an ego....
jimlivingston said:
... If chefs have that fragile of an ego....
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As you now can see for yourself, this is where flaming begins - exactly the reason why threads like that are mostly not welcome!
I definitely think there's room for a single, stickied "ROM discussion" thread. People always have opinions, and it'd give people a place to vent them. The reason there's so many clutter-y "WHAT ROM?!" threads is because there's nowhere to ask that question, and new users have no real reason to understand how repetitive that question IS because all the threads get closed and deleted.
Simply telling them "you can't ask that!" makes it awfully tricky for new users, since they often don't even know WHAT they're looking for. By keeping a "ROM discussion" thread around, they might be able to at least get an idea of what people like about different ROMs. Heck, even if the place turns in to a pit of snarky vipers, it'll at least serve as an example of why people don't like ROM comparison threads!
The problems with just directing people to the ROM threads are thus:
1. Most ROM threads consist largely of bug reports or feature requests from long outdated versions of the ROM, so the information isn't really relevant.
2. Some (not all!) chefs are better at creating their ROMs than they are at describing them -- making it awfully hard to get an idea of what the author was "going for."
3. This makes it even LESS likely that some of the small, less popular ROMs will get noticed because the most popular, most updated threads are the ones that get bumped onto the first few pages.
4. ROM threads generally do not (and should not) contain information comparing different ROMs. This is, however, useful information -- if there's two ROMs claiming to be the "fastest and lightest," for example, users should be able to make their observations about those claims.
There's ALWAYS going to be a chance of getting people's hackles up and of some folks getting defensive of upset. At the same time, there's MORE chance for some chefs to get appreciation for what they've done, there will be a better starting point for folks new to this whole ROM business, and I think there's even a chance that the ROMs themselves will be improved because chefs might be able to keep their eyes on the rest of the "scene" better.
My 5 cents as a veteran noob.
First of all: This site is free to use. Lets keep it that way, by accepting the rules.
I think we have to realize, that this is not a service organization. This site is created by developers for developers.
Yes, it would be nice, if we could get answers quickly, but that is not the purpose of this site. Help - About: XDA
If you want to make this site a better place, Go Here!
A review-thread might be a great idea, but nothing is keeping you from creating another site for this!
So, you want a brand new ROM doing this, and this and that!
Well, so did I. And by trying different ROMs, I now realize, there are no shortcuts.
No matter how cool a ROM looks, there is always one thing about it you don't like.
One example: The new Manilla 3D looks incredible cool. Even if it is slow, I might still be using it, if it wasn't for one little thing that I just can't live with; The 3D "People" tab is very cool, but it is a pain to scroll through one contact at a time. I find the 2D version so much better.
You just have to try for yourself, what works for you and what don't.
Bottom line: To get the ROM that makes you most happy, you've got to make flashing your phone a hobby.
Read the stickies. Start flashing. Stay cool.
Happy hunting
I know this thread is closed, But I wanted to add to the statement of mine that was quoted earlier in this thread.
If you are going to get an objective Comparison or "Reviewed ROMs Thread" That would mean the reviewer would need to be unbiased. In order to do so they would have to flash EVERY version of EVERY ROM that was released. A difficult proposition at best.
I, like most people, will try a few and then Stick with one I find I like. There might be a better one that I haven't tried yet. But that's the fun of this Forum.
There was at one point a ROM Reviews thread. That thread was never closed. As it gave unbiased comparisons between ROMs. Something Impossible to get from just creating a thread saying "What's the Best?" Well ultimatly, "BEST" depends on your tastes.
The ROM review thread gave The features and bugs of a ROM and gave you a pretty clear pictures of the difference between the ROMs, All with the same "spin" from the same guy. By having the same "spin" from the same guy, you can grasp better which ROM is right for you. The effect of Me telling you what I like best and Junner Telling you their favorite is it has different "spin." Also, I may not have tried the ROM Junner recommended.
In the END the ROM Reviews thread died, because it was alot of work. And I believe we have even more ROMs available now!
So you can see why Best of ROM threads serve no purpose then to take up space. With the vast size of XDA's membership, you're not going to get a lot of worth out of a few vocal Fans of a certain chef's offerings.
Sorry for posting this here, but I couldn't really find a suitable place since most of the Android action is right here.
These past weeks I've noticed an increase of irrelevant threads and clutter being made in regards to Android development in the HTC Dream forum and every other Android development forum on xda. A lot of Android devices out on the market now are not made by HTC. This of course is causing a problem since this forum is for HTC devices only.
Maybe it would be a good idea if a new forum was created that accounts for all native Android devices (Motorola Droid/Milestone, Motorola Cliq/Dext, Samsung Galaxy, etc...). That way, a lot of the clutter would surely be resolved and a considerate load would be taken off of this server (Gotta hate the horrible load on xda these days...).
I'm sure there are quiet a few people on here that have an HTC device and are fully satisfied with it (Me included!). That doesn't mean that everyone else has to feel the same way. People that choose to go with Samsung, Motorola, etc. for their next Android device should not be left out. That's why I believe there should definitely be a forum that serves everyone.
To put up a new forum specifically for this matter takes no time at all, but it does take participation. So if you feel like this is something you would like to see, please feel free to leave a comment.
What are you're opinions on this matter? Agree? Disagree?
Discuss.
EDIT: If there's enough people interested in this project, would there be anyone willing to help getting things started in terms of hosting space or something similar?
my thoughts are that the few changes that have been recently made should help if they are utilized. now we have a forum for general android development for devs, and the rom releases are in the device specific forums. Here was my idea, but i think they made the right choice. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4795376&postcount=1
jaaronmoody said:
my thoughts are that the few changes that have been recently made should help if they are utilized. now we have a forum for general android development for devs, and the rom releases are in the device specific forums. Here was my idea, but i think they made the right choice. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4795376&postcount=1
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It's a start. But I don't think xda is going to put up more sub forums for each new device out there. Thus, development and ROM threads for Motorola and other devices will be left out. Unless I understood your post incorrectly
no, you're right, i just dont think xda WANTS to keep up with every brand that uses android. they apparently keep their focus on HTC devices. there are gonna be a FLOOD of manufacturers utilizing droid in the future, and unless xda wants to change their focus, they will stick with one brand
jaaronmoody said:
no, you're right, i just dont think xda WANTS to keep up with every brand that uses android. they apparently keep their focus on HTC devices. there are gonna be a FLOOD of manufacturers utilizing droid in the future, and unless xda wants to change their focus, they will stick with one brand
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Yea that's exactly my point.
There WILL be a flood of Android devices from all kinds of manufacturers and it would be nice if there was a place for all of them come together. That way, everyone can keep track of specific development without having to switch between dozens of forums.
My $0.02.
good luck, my friend. Most likely it will take someone to else to start a new site to accomplish. funny, i was fooling around a couple days ago and did this. http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=176593179336&v=wall
not saying this is the solution, but you are not alone in your concerns.
I see that a few agree with me, care to share your point of view? Maybe it will spark this thing.
Hi guys, may i speak a little bit of my mind?
I've been on XDA for quite a moment now, forget about not contributing to any development please , and i do know one very simple ground rule: SEARCH!!!!!!
But from my time here i realise searching for something and getting the right answer here on XDA does requires getting the keywords right + if to minimise the scope,search in the right forum and thread. The experience is not something Google offers.
Thus alot of times this has happened to myself, especially newbies, forget or skips searching every single forums and threads, looking through a 40 page thread just for the 1 sentence answer. And the result, lots of angry 'old birds' and mods.
Thus can i suggest setting up some kind of Knowledge Base forum or thread? This KB will the centralise of all the essence of developments, bugs, fixes that exists in this forum modified by a Mod/Admin only. Something like a library.
Having a Knowledge Base will really be helpful to (budding) developers as well as technology leechers like me :laugh: It reduces effort wasted on searching high and low to the lesser extend, but really dealing REPEATIVELY to replying the same old questions with the same old answer. Just tell people to look at the knowledge base and that's it, no more reason and cause to post repeatative questions. It is different to the stickies existing now. Users still has to look page by page for their answer.
Ok I shall end my whine here now. Thanks for allowing me let off my mind.
L2Deliver said:
Hi guys, may i speak a little bit of my mind?
I've been on XDA for quite a moment now, forget about not contributing to any development please , and i do know one very simple ground rule: SEARCH!!!!!!
But from my time here i realise searching for something and getting the right answer here on XDA does requires getting the keywords right + if to minimise the scope,search in the right forum and thread. The experience is not something Google offers.
Thus alot of times this has happened to myself, especially newbies, forget or skips searching every single forums and threads, looking through a 40 page thread just for the 1 sentence answer. And the result, lots of angry 'old birds' and mods.
Thus can i suggest setting up some kind of Knowledge Base forum or thread? This KB will the centralise of all the essence of developments, bugs, fixes that exists in this forum modified by a Mod/Admin only. Something like a library.
Having a Knowledge Base will really be helpful to (budding) developers as well as technology leechers like me :laugh: It reduces effort wasted on searching high and low to the lesser extend, but really dealing REPEATIVELY to replying the same old questions with the same old answer. Just tell people to look at the knowledge base and that's it, no more reason and cause to post repeatative questions. It is different to the stickies existing now. Users still has to look page by page for their answer.
Ok I shall end my whine here now. Thanks for allowing me let off my mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like a good idea.I think you're free to set up a thread like this, where you cover the most important questions and deliver some troubleshooting.
good idea,+1
from experience i know that using any search system can be daunting without correct (key)words so great idea +1:good :good:
Its a good idea. But then, its not like we have tons of roms out. And its not like we have that many bugs on the phone.
muellersmattes said:
Sounds like a good idea.I think you're free to set up a thread like this, where you cover the most important questions and deliver some troubleshooting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. but my point of having it managed and maintained solely by a mod/admin is for the knowledge base not to be 'polluted' by questions and answers. Kinda like a locked thread.
babymatteo said:
Its a good idea. But then, its not like we have tons of roms out. And its not like we have that many bugs on the phone.
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Click to collapse
Understand. Perhaps this idea can be utilised at other places of XDA or the entire XDA which im sure with all materials centralised and summerised into a mega knowledge base will be very very awesome.
I think a FAQ can helpful and it will sure help new people.
Creating a KB can be a heavy time consuming job even though we don't many roms.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Every new users or users that isn't active should be forced to watch the "You are a Noob" video till the END the first ten times they try to post a comment...
Then there would be no excuse not to search before asking dumb questions that have been answered a thousand times..
What the hell is going on in this forum? I've never seen a forum with so many posts for other devices. If there are any mods out there, would you be so kind to clean this place up a little.
from my Tranquil Rezound
I've been wondering the same thing. I realize XDA is a huge forum, but there are MANY Mods (so it seems). I find it hard to believe that these threads have been out of place for this long. I don't like to sound like I'm being rude, but there are threads that have been here for day after day and there's a list of mods at the top that look over this part of the forum. I know people have lives and all but I'd think that a mod would see things like "Xperia 8" "Zte v970m" and "monetize free desktop applications" and knew that something was wrong. o.o
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
I'm sure we have been wondering that...
From my Count there are 20 threads that have nothing to do with the one and were posted all for other devices. Thats quite ridiculous. I think its time that I unsubscribe from the Question and troubleshooting forum for the HTC One. Its quite a waste of time. Too many posts for devices and problems I don't really care about.
Instead of instantly saying "wrong forum", you might try asking what steps did they take to get to this post. Just a thought.
Sent from my Evo LTE using Tapatalk 2
I can understand maybe the odd noob getting confused and posting in here related to a "One series" phone....but posting in here for a "sammy" phone? WTF....even a noob couldn't be that dumb....could they?:silly:
Deffo agree that the place could do with a big clean up though.:good:
I am sure there were people who were really confused and made mistake posting other devices' question here.
BUT! This should not happen so frequently like this! People are noob in solving their phone's problem but are not so blind that they can't see the forum title!
So I believe this is organized activity that aims to mess up our htc one q&a section. They actually achieved their goal, see people are not subscribing to this section few posts above.
This is very sad, not trying to point finger to anyone/any company behind this, but if you consider xda forum is so powerful now those company's marketing people could easily use this place to promote their product, or on the other hand, prevent people from accessing valuable information by distracting them, then in the end, make them lose interest or potentially delay their decision of buying the forum related product.
We are all clever enough to figure out, if my theory is true, who is more likely behind this and so afraid of HTC's new flag ship One!
I think what we should do is, keep sticking to this forum, and post more related topics actively to show our support to our beloved device. We need this q&a section and it is down to us in the end to keep it active!
actually, I found it quite amusing, every time I come here, there were new posts asking unrelated questions, and this actually makes me come here more often.
Also, I would like to point out, we should NEVER answer those unrelated question but only point out they are posted at the wrong place, and only the first one or two people doing that will be enough. We want those threads die out quickly not keep remerging at the top!!!
Please help all of us keep this place as it should be! And keep calm and carry on.
Reported all the threads which should not be here to the mods so hopefully they will pop along and do a quick tidy up for us.
How does one become a mod anyways? Because I've never seen any of the mods for these forums, I'd rather see one of us (that is seen on the ONE forums frequently) to become a mod that way at least we have someone who will see all these post about different devices.
BigNate said:
How does one become a mod anyways? Because I've never seen any of the mods for these forums, I'd rather see one of us (that is seen on the ONE forums frequently) to become a mod that way at least we have someone who will see all these post about different devices.
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Click to collapse
They used to take applications, not anymore
We have plenty on mods, they just won't really moderate this forum until the device is released
Sent from my One X using Tapatalk 2
So where are the mods?
We are here of course. I alone have moved 15 threads today to the right forums, and I must admit that I also haven't seen so many ill-placed posts anywhere yet. Maybe the One-Forum is like a magnet, lol. Or it really is some deliberate action.
Those threads are taken care of if reported or if seen by coincidence. But we don't open every thread in Q&A. And at least the ones I have moved today were not recognizable as misplaced from the thread title. Or would you see from "Never worked" that the poster meant his SGS3?
So I close this now.
It seems there has been some kind of technical issue, which meant threads ended up in this forum, without actually having been posted in this forum.