Database Develop

Dirty flash or full wipe rom?

When should you do a full wipe when installing a custom rom and when is it ok to dirty flash? Can someone please explain?
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

If you're changing bases it's always good to wipe. And if you're changing roms you should always wipe. But if you're just applying an update you might get away with a dirty flash. Save a backup first and you don't risk much with a dirty flash.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app

lampel said:
If you're changing bases it's always good to wipe. And if you're changing roms you should always wipe. But if you're just applying an update you might get away with a dirty flash. Save a backup first and you don't risk much with a dirty flash.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
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Click to collapse
I apologize if this is a stupid question. When you say change base what exactly do you mean? Is this from one rom to another or a version change on the same rom like 5.0 to 6.0? Or is it a kernal change? If it is a version change would 5.1 to 5.6 be considered changing base?
Thank you very much. Again, I apologize if this is a dumb question. I have read around a little and did not quite get an answer I was comfortable with.

easyrabbit said:
I apologize if this is a stupid question. When you say change base what exactly do you mean? Is this from one rom to another or a version change on the same rom like 5.0 to 6.0? Or is it a kernal change? If it is a version change would 5.1 to 5.6 be considered changing base?
Thank you very much. Again, I apologize if this is a dumb question. I have read around a little and did not quite get an answer I was comfortable with.
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Click to collapse
What rom are you using?

CYNiCAL2KX said:
What rom are you using?
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Click to collapse
I am using VenomOne 5.7.0 but it is more of a general question. I am a bit new to this and want to have a good understanding of everything from the ground up.
---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------
easyrabbit said:
I am using VenomOne 5.7.0 but it is more of a general question. I am a bit new to this and want to have a good understanding of everything from the ground up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I meant ViperOne...

easyrabbit said:
I am using VenomOne 5.7.0 but it is more of a general question. I am a bit new to this and want to have a good understanding of everything from the ground up.
---------- Post added at 08:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 AM ----------
Sorry I meant ViperOne...
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Click to collapse
'4.19.401.8' that is the current base which is in use by viper. Sometimes it's okay to flash, it's trail and error.
Always make a Nand before you flash, incase anything goes wrong, you can go back to the previous version, like a windows restore point.
A fresh install is wiping data and cache in TWRP it's called a factory reset. This doesn't format the /sdcard/0 so all sd card data remains.
If you were to flash a older base with a newer one, it may work perfectly, it may not, what I do is: Create a Nandroid of system,data,boot. Wipe, then install, then I restore data only. This way the phone tends to be (fairly) just how you left it, with messages, apps etc still remaining.
Like I said, after making a Nand, just flash unless the OP says specifically not to. Then if you have issues, it's a simple case of rolling back by restoring Data, System. I hope this answers your question, I think you'll just get the hang of how it works just by actually giving it ago, not much can really go wrong unless you start flashing things not meant for your phone.

CYNiCAL2KX said:
'4.19.401.8' that is the current base which is in use by viper. Sometimes it's okay to flash, it's trail and error.
Always make a Nand before you flash, incase anything goes wrong, you can go back to the previous version, like a windows restore point.
A fresh install is wiping data and cache in TWRP it's called a factory reset. This doesn't format the /sdcard/0 so all sd card data remains.
If you were to flash a older base with a newer one, it may work perfectly, it may not, what I do is: Create a Nandroid of system,data,boot. Wipe, then install, then I restore data only. This way the phone tends to be (fairly) just how you left it, with messages, apps etc still remaining.
Like I said, after making a Nand, just flash unless the OP says specifically not to. Then if you have issues, it's a simple case of rolling back by restoring Data, System. I hope this answers your question, I think you'll just get the hang of how it works just by actually giving it ago, not much can really go wrong unless you start flashing things not meant for your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for the info. So now I understand what the base is. Aside from time or laziness I would think that doing a full wipe is the way to go. Maybe I am wrong but I would rather not take chances.
Right now Iam currently having some issues. I basically did a dirty flash of the same version I am on to clear the theme and it went wrong. It never came back up after an hour in the "starting applications" state. After that I got back in to recovery (TWRP) and did full wipes and installs. They seem to go OK but then the android setup crashes right after the "name your device" part and the launcher wont start (chose Nova). Everything just hangs. I reboot but then it just hangs. I just did my nandroid restore and I am back up and running but not sure what is going wrong. I tried the install a few times with different options but everytime the setup part crashes. So my simple question is now another full blown issue haha.
I love this board tho, everyone is so helpful. One day I hope to be the one giving the advice.

CYNiCAL2KX said:
'4.19.401.8' that is the current base which is in use by viper. Sometimes it's okay to flash, it's trail and error.
Always make a Nand before you flash, incase anything goes wrong, you can go back to the previous version, like a windows restore point.
A fresh install is wiping data and cache in TWRP it's called a factory reset. This doesn't format the /sdcard/0 so all sd card data remains.
If you were to flash a older base with a newer one, it may work perfectly, it may not, what I do is: Create a Nandroid of system,data,boot. Wipe, then install, then I restore data only. This way the phone tends to be (fairly) just how you left it, with messages, apps etc still remaining.
Like I said, after making a Nand, just flash unless the OP says specifically not to. Then if you have issues, it's a simple case of rolling back by restoring Data, System. I hope this answers your question, I think you'll just get the hang of how it works just by actually giving it ago, not much can really go wrong unless you start flashing things not meant for your phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May I ask, is restoring the data folder similar to adb backup/restore or even titanium? With titanium I could just restore messages or whatever. Doing the whole data folder could put back something I dont want or something I want to get rid of. With my current situation I think this might solve my issue with setup but I really wanted to start from scratch and retweak everything.
Regarding the base, I cant seem to find where I can check that on the device. It is not in settings-about where I would expect to find it.
I am finally working my nerve up to try this again and figure out why the initial android setup is crashing. I am getting more comfortable now especially since I know my nandroid restore works. Good fun but scares the hell out of me at the same time when things go wrong haha....

easyrabbit said:
May I ask, is restoring the data folder similar to adb backup/restore or even titanium? With titanium I could just restore messages or whatever. Doing the whole data folder could put back something I dont want or something I want to get rid of. With my current situation I think this might solve my issue with setup but I really wanted to start from scratch and retweak everything.
Regarding the base, I cant seem to find where I can check that on the device. It is not in settings-about where I would expect to find it.
I am finally working my nerve up to try this again and figure out why the initial android setup is crashing. I am getting more comfortable now especially since I know my nandroid restore works. Good fun but scares the hell out of me at the same time when things go wrong haha....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ususally most issues regarding cross flashed bases are problems derived from the system partition, however i'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never really had many issues restoring data. Also, once you back up data , you can install a Nandroid manager app where you can restore certain things from nand backups. This is what I chose to use over things like titanium as it's just another thing to do

CYNiCAL2KX said:
Ususally most issues regarding cross flashed bases are problems derived from the system partition, however i'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I've never really had many issues restoring data. Also, once you back up data , you can install a Nandroid manager app where you can restore certain things from nand backups. This is what I chose to use over things like titanium as it's just another thing to do
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much. I have heard back and forth on wiping the system but had never done it till now. I am still not sure what was happening. in my initial installs I allways removed sense and used Nova. The last time I left Sense and most off the apps. I also 're-downloaded the zip. it worked like a charm. soon I will start investigating kernals and updating firmwae and antennas. Will play with the basics for a while first tho. eventually I would like to try my own. However the bar is set high with venomone.
I am now dealing with sense which is ok bit for me Nova is as close to perfect a launcher for me. still investigating battery lifevetc but will probably do another flash removing sense. venomone fixed everything I didnt like about it for the most part but I love to be able to swipe up or down anywhere to get quickbar and app drawer... still testing tho, I have a full life but definitely want to contribute here... my new obsession.

[Q] OS Backup Question

Hi, I am sure this is answered somewhere here, but there is so much cumulative information and half-answers to go through.
First the short version then some additional info.
Short;
How can I do a complete backup of a new TF701 so that I could restore it to the state it arrived in before I would unlock the bootloader, root, and install a recovery?
Info;
Although I am not an expert, I have rooted/put clockwork recovery on a few different phones and tablets. I am familiar with adb and know there are techniques to use that to do a backup.
A bit more info;
I have another TF701 that is rooted and works reasonably well, but I did something at some point that now it randomly reboots, as well as it will not install the update to go from JB to KK (I get a "not enough space" error that I assume is really a misleading error based on having encrypted the device).
On the new TF701, after turning it on, all I have done is apply the various system updates. I would like to capture the device in this state so that in the future I can restore to it. IE, that I would both be able to restore to this clean KK as well as stock recovery, and anything else (if there is) software-wise that might cause the device to misbehave. Having a re-locked bootloader isn't necessarily a requirement, as I'm not sure how hard that is, but if possible I would like the state captured to be with the device as it currently is with the locked bootloader.
If possible, I don't want to root, install a recovery, and only then be able to do a backup and have to rely on someone's post of a "Stock recovery" or image.
My main concern is not around returning the device and getting support or things like that; it is being able to return the device to a known, pristine state, since most backup methods don't seem to backup everything; they either only backup apks, or only backup the system rom, or only the "sdcard", etc.

SocketTumi said:
Hi, I am sure this is answered somewhere here, but there is so much cumulative information and half-answers to go through.
First the short version then some additional info.
Short;
How can I do a complete backup of a new TF701 so that I could restore it to the state it arrived in before I would unlock the bootloader, root, and install a recovery?
Info;
Although I am not an expert, I have rooted/put clockwork recovery on a few different phones and tablets. I am familiar with adb and know there are techniques to use that to do a backup.
A bit more info;
I have another TF701 that is rooted and works reasonably well, but I did something at some point that now it randomly reboots, as well as it will not install the update to go from JB to KK (I get a "not enough space" error that I assume is really a misleading error based on having encrypted the device).
On the new TF701, after turning it on, all I have done is apply the various system updates. I would like to capture the device in this state so that in the future I can restore to it. IE, that I would both be able to restore to this clean KK as well as stock recovery, and anything else (if there is) software-wise that might cause the device to misbehave. Having a re-locked bootloader isn't necessarily a requirement, as I'm not sure how hard that is, but if possible I would like the state captured to be with the device as it currently is with the locked bootloader.
If possible, I don't want to root, install a recovery, and only then be able to do a backup and have to rely on someone's post of a "Stock recovery" or image.
My main concern is not around returning the device and getting support or things like that; it is being able to return the device to a known, pristine state, since most backup methods don't seem to backup everything; they either only backup apks, or only backup the system rom, or only the "sdcard", etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The short answer is: You can't.
You can't do anything in terms of backing up anything system related with a locked bootloader
You cannot relock the bootloader
You cannot make a nandroid without a custom recovery installed.
What's wrong with the stock recovery image and the stock rom you can find on Droidbasement????
They are just that: Pure stock. If you flash those you're tablet is back to factory specs except for the BL unlock.
Try formatting /data on your old tablet, then reflash the rom. Most likely your problems are related to the encryption....

berndblb said:
You can't do anything in terms of backing up anything system related with a locked bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I said I understand I might need to unlock the bootloader.
I don't understand why, for example;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-nexus/general/guide-phone-backup-unlock-root-t1420351
after an adb restore;
"You're back to normal, short of possibly some widgets on the home screen. [...] I did have an issue with not all files being restored to the Internal Storage; in particular, the Gallery still displayed all the folders and files that it had cached (which it expected to be there) as only gray boxes, and would not display the images, nor would it rescan the media. [...] this will not back up SMS messages"
Why??? Is this a bug in adb? something about not being able to lock the file system? Those questions are rhetorical, but I don't understand why everything with Android seems to be "it works, ... except ..."
berndblb said:
What's wrong with the stock recovery image and the stock rom you can find on Droidbasement????.
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Click to collapse
Probably nothing, but what is it's provenance? It was not posted by Asus, right? How do I know it was not posted by some hacker who has added three lines of code that captures every "keystroke" I make? Most of the posted tutorials just say "go here ..,. download this ..., type this ... and there is no explanation of what is going on or why I should trust that download. If I can't get a purely stock rom, how did the person who posted that one?

SocketTumi said:
Well, I said I understand I might need to unlock the bootloader.
I don't understand why, for example;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-nexus/general/guide-phone-backup-unlock-root-t1420351
after an adb restore;
"You're back to normal, short of possibly some widgets on the home screen. [...] I did have an issue with not all files being restored to the Internal Storage; in particular, the Gallery still displayed all the folders and files that it had cached (which it expected to be there) as only gray boxes, and would not display the images, nor would it rescan the media. [...] this will not back up SMS messages"
Why??? Is this a bug in adb? something about not being able to lock the file system? Those questions are rhetorical, but I don't understand why everything with Android seems to be "it works, ... except ..."
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Click to collapse
Why should something titled as experimental developed for a Samsung Nexus on ICS from 2011 not work on your current tablet?
I don't even know where to begin.......
And anyway, that post is about backing up apps and data. Doesn't backup the rom....
Probably nothing, but what is it's provenance? It was not posted by Asus, right? How do I know it was not posted by some hacker who has added three lines of code that captures every "keystroke" I make? Most of the posted tutorials just say "go here ..,. download this ..., type this ... and there is no explanation of what is going on or why I should trust that download. If I can't get a purely stock rom, how did the person who posted that one?
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Click to collapse
Yes, you should only download from reputable sources. How do you find out if they are reputable? Google is your friend.
How could they do it? Because they know a whole lot more than you do.... or I for that matter.
But it's totally up to you to benefit or not from a boatload of work done for free in the spirit of sharing.

berndblb said:
Try formatting /data on your old tablet, then reflash the rom. Most likely your problems are related to the encryption....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. I was trying to avoid starting over on that tablet, but that worked.

Boot-loader Flashing vs. using Flashfire

(originally posted in the flashfire threads, but it was suggested I post here)
My apologies if this has already been covered (I could not find an answer in searching)
I appreciate that it can be dangerous to use flashfire to flash the bootloader partition and that one should use fastboot. My question is:
If I download a FW package and the bootloader has changed, what happens if I flash to the kernel, system, cache, vendor etc... and do not flash to bootloader and radio? Will the flash fail; will the phone soft brick; will nothing happen and I can go merrily along?
The question derives from this: If the phone can become unusable with a mismatched bootload and radio to the rest of the images, it would require to unpack the package and check for a version prior to flashing other partitions (so I assume). If I go that far, would it not be easier to not use flashfire and simply manually flash the required files when updates are available?
Thanks
N6, unlocked and rooted (previously always updating latest patches and rerooting myself (using TWRP), but wishing to try flashire)

RLBL said:
(originally posted in the flashfire threads, but it was suggested I post here)
My apologies if this has already been covered (I could not find an answer in searching)
I appreciate that it can be dangerous to use flashfire to flash the bootloader partition and that one should use fastboot. My question is:
If I download a FW package and the bootloader has changed, what happens if I flash to the kernel, system, cache, vendor etc... and do not flash to bootloader and radio? Will the flash fail; will the phone soft brick; will nothing happen and I can go merrily along?
The question derives from this: If the phone can become unusable with a mismatched bootload and radio to the rest of the images, it would require to unpack the package and check for a version prior to flashing other partitions (so I assume). If I go that far, would it not be easier to not use flashfire and simply manually flash the required files when updates are available?
Thanks
N6, unlocked and rooted (previously always updating latest patches and rerooting myself (using TWRP), but wishing to try flashire)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is really rare that a bootloader flash is required, and a radio update is never required. if you dont flash them, then you just dont flash them, thats all.

I'd add that going to a major update you'll want to pay close attention. The bootloader probably will need updating. e.g. lollipop to MM, the bootloader had to be updated.
The radio is optional and often with trial and error, you'll find a particular one that for your hardware, in your area, you get the best signal. There is a thread with N6 flashable radios here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3066052.
Had you posted that you had an N6 in your original post, I'd have helped you, because that's what I use

ktmom said:
I'd add that going to a major update you'll want to pay close attention. The bootloader probably will need updating. e.g. lollipop to MM, the bootloader had to be updated.
The radio is optional and often with trial and error, you'll find a particular one that for your hardware, in your area, you get the best signal. There is a thread with N6 flashable radios.
Had you posted that you had an N6 in your original post, I'd have helped you, because that's what I use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
both mm a lollipop, i never updated my bootloader. i did update it after mm though.

ktmom said:
I'd add that going to a major update you'll want to pay close attention. The bootloader probably will need updating. e.g. lollipop to MM, the bootloader had to be updated.
The radio is optional and often with trial and error, you'll find a particular one that for your hardware, in your area, you get the best signal. There is a thread with N6 flashable radios here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3066052.
Had you posted that you had an N6 in your original post, I'd have helped you, because that's what I use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh That looks interesting. My Cellular signal sucks even though I am supposedly close to some towers. I am going to try using flashfire with these (hope I don't brick myself lol)
So I assume that when N comes out officially and I need to change bootloaders, I would do so via fasboot, then afterwards I can the the updates via fashfire.

RLBL said:
Oh That looks interesting. My Cellular signal sucks even though I am supposedly close to some towers. I am going to try using flashfire with these (hope I don't brick myself lol)
So I assume that when N comes out officially and I need to change bootloaders, I would do so via fasboot, then afterwards I can the the updates via fashfire.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all the radios, and bootloaders, are available in flashable zip for here on xda as well. to flash via twrp recovery

simms22 said:
all the radios, and bootloaders, are available in flashable zip for here on xda as well. to flash via twrp recovery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool... But I only used TWRP to flash the SU binaries to root. Now that I am rooted, I figured I could simply go back to stock recovery* and use flashfire going forward.
* I figured that because I had no other use for for a custom recovery presently, I may as well stay completely stock and rooted. Furthermore, from my understanding (which can be wrong) I no longer need a custom recovery to flash/install anything, as flashfire can do it all. Of course that brings one to ask "why am I rooted if I am staying stock?". I root my device so I can simulate a power button press without cancelling smart lock operations (either through tasker shell keyevent, gravity screen, or nova prime swipe gesture). I like not having to use the buttons on my phone

Why get rid of custom recovery? Just leave it and keep a backup on hand, then when there is an issue with basically anything you can just restore your backup instead of freaking out and running here using caps and exclamation marks asking how to fix.

scryan said:
Why get rid of custom recovery? Just leave it and keep a backup on hand, then when there is an issue with basically anything you can just restore your backup instead of freaking out and running here using caps and exclamation marks asking how to fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1 - why use a custom recovery if I do not need to (serious question, not being confrontational - see below)
2 - I totally know how to flash to whatever I want without using any toolkits (and ofc using a custom recovery)
3 - Why would one assume that one panics? (just because I have a low post count and admittedly an Android noob - N6 1st phone - does not mean I am an idiot)
4 - Considering I am not using custom ROMs and staying stock, I would think the likelihood of things going wrong is low (could be totally wrong there lol but I have done everything myself manually since the get go (never even taken an OTA for my upgrades), and never had 1 issue as of yet. This post was a general question in nature. It was not posted because I needed something to be fixed)
If I do not need it, why have it: I am experimenting to see if I can use FF completely stock (and rooted). Please provide some rationale as to why I should keep a custom recovery so I can evaluate (you may be 100% right). The point is: from my understanding one can use FF without a custom recovery so why not try... so far, so good.
On backups: be aware (not that you should care, but you did comment)... I have nothing on my phone that requires backing up at that... I can completely wipe the phone and it only takes time to do a google restore and I am back to where I am (been there, done that. Annoying for time though lol but I have no data on the phone safe from tasker profiles which are on my google drive and easily restored).

And what happens when you flash a bootloader and something screws up? You can't fix it from the stock recovery menu, now can you. So what not have something useful on the recovery partition for that 1 and 1000 chance something goes wrong.... Just my opinion, being I've been flashing phones since the first Android device was released on T-Mobile. The g1 (still have and still flash Roms
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

RLBL said:
1 - why use a custom recovery if I do not need to (serious question, not being confrontational - see below)
2 - I totally know how to flash to whatever I want without using any toolkits (and ofc using a custom recovery)
3 - Why would one assume that one panics? (just because I have a low post count and admittedly an Android noob - N6 1st phone - does not mean I am an idiot)
4 - Considering I am not using custom ROMs and staying stock, I would think the likelihood of things going wrong is low (could be totally wrong there lol but I have done everything myself manually since the get go (never even taken an OTA for my upgrades), and never had 1 issue as of yet. This post was a general question in nature. It was not posted because I needed something to be fixed)
If I do not need it, why have it: I am experimenting to see if I can use FF completely stock (and rooted). Please provide some rationale as to why I should keep a custom recovery so I can evaluate (you may be 100% right). The point is: from my understanding one can use FF without a custom recovery so why not try... so far, so good.
On backups: be aware (not that you should care, but you did comment)... I have nothing on my phone that requires backing up at that... I can completely wipe the phone and it only takes time to do a google restore and I am back to where I am (been there, done that. Annoying for time though lol but I have no data on the phone safe from tasker profiles which are on my google drive and easily restored).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. the only one important thing about having twrp installed.. backups and restores. before dlashing or changing anything, i akways create a backup in twrp. if something doesnt work out, you can always restore your backup, as ive done many many times. its a quicky fix it.

31ken31 said:
And what happens when you flash a bootloader and something screws up? You can't fix it from the stock recovery menu, now can you. So what not have something useful on the recovery partition for that 1 and 1000 chance something goes wrong.... Just my opinion, being I've been flashing phones since the first Android device was released on T-Mobile. The g1 (still have and still flash Roms
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that was the whole point of my post was it not? What happens if you DON'T flash a bootloader while using FF (but in the case where it did change)? And like I said, in the 1/1000 chance that something does go wrong and I did not have a backup: Flash the complete package via adb? Like I said, I have nothing to backup, thus nothing to recover. Not saying I shouldn't, just saying I don't. I only used TWRP to gain root access, nothing more (no custom ROMs, kernels, optimizations, anything on my phone...not even local app data saves - I am one of those old farts who uses their phone as a PDA with phone capabilities and that is it. All "data" is cloud based for calendar info etc.)
It was a relatively simple (general) question around some experimentation I am doing to see if it would work if one was completely stock (safe from root); did not think it would turn in an philosophical argument on whether or not one should use a stock recovery (which I have been using a custom up until yesterday, but was thinking about putting it back on this evening anyways, just because)
Anyways, got my answer... thx

simms22 said:
1. the only one important thing about having twrp installed.. backups and restores. before dlashing or changing anything, i akways create a backup in twrp. if something doesnt work out, you can always restore your backup, as ive done many many times. its a quicky fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!... Obviously when I do venture into more with the phone I will do that. Currently it is a work and personal device so the only thing I do is flash Google stock builds instead of waiting for OTAs. Not saying I should not have a backup, but I don't. Only once after the 1st flash I re-locked the bootloader (as per instructions). What I waste of time; but it did show me that in a non-efficient disaster recovery, I can get everything back to where I was.
A restore would have been efficient, but I have found that I really have nothing to back up.. yet.
I guess a (off-topic) question I have for you is: What and Why did things not work out? In my case where I am only flashing stock loads (not waiting for OTAs), what could one anticipate going wrong that a re-flash could not recover from, but a restore could? Example a write corruption of a partition and the only thing I can do is boot into recovery as my PC cannot see the phone via adb? Can something like that happen?

Backing up system is what saves your a**
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app

31ken31 said:
Backing up system is what saves your a**
Sent from my Nexus 6 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool... but... what if you are stock? Save my ass from what? Will a (re)flash of stock binaries not suffice?
Look I appreciate I am sounding argumentative, but I am curious to understand what can happen and why. I can understand the "need" to do it if customizing a device etc... but I am very curious as to why if you are stock:
example:
A stock user unlocks his bootloader so they can flash files straight from google be it OTAs or the complete package. It is not listed anywhere to have a custom recovery in their instructions which would lead one to believe it is not required if flashing said files... I assume something could go wrong of course and the most efficient way is to do a restore from backup... but I also assume one could simply re-flash and start over.
I am not devaluating the merits of a custom recovery; I was just curious if one could use (easily) flash fire without one - and one can. The purpose of the question was two-fold:
- because I was flashing stock, then reflashing twrp to get root I found the process longer than it needed to be so I thought I could use flashfire and have it do it for me.
- then I realized that flashing re-roots as well so I did not need to flash the custom recovery to obtain root. I thought "hey what if I accidentally checked "recovery" and accidentally went back to stock. No harm done as I can move on and still be rooted.
Not sure my butt needs saving to ask. You may be doing something that having backups is a good and safe idea... what if you are not? No harm in still using a custom of course, but it was just a question (I ask such questions so I know in advance why something happened and what to do so I do not come running to forums in all caps as someone else said lol)
off topic: If one has nothing to backup, what is there to restore?

RLBL said:
cool... but... what if you are stock? Save my ass from what? Will a (re)flash of stock binaries not suffice?
Look I appreciate I am sounding argumentative, but I am curious to understand what can happen and why. I can understand the "need" to do it if customizing a device etc... but I am very curious as to why if you are stock:
example:
A stock user unlocks his bootloader so they can flash files straight from google be it OTAs or the complete package. It is not listed anywhere to have a custom recovery in their instructions which would lead one to believe it is not required if flashing said files... I assume something could go wrong of course and the most efficient way is to do a restore from backup... but I also assume one could simply re-flash and start over.
I am not devaluating the merits of a custom recovery; I was just curious if one could use (easily) flash fire without one - and one can. The purpose of the question was two-fold:
- because I was flashing stock, then reflashing twrp to get root I found the process longer than it needed to be so I thought I could use flashfire and have it do it for me.
- then I realized that flashing re-roots as well so I did not need to flash the custom recovery to obtain root. I thought "hey what if I accidentally checked "recovery" and accidentally went back to stock. No harm done as I can move on and still be rooted.
Not sure my butt needs saving to ask. You may be doing something that having backups is a good and safe idea... what if you are not? No harm in still using a custom of course, but it was just a question (I ask such questions so I know in advance why something happened and what to do so I do not come running to forums in all caps as someone else said lol)
off topic: If one has nothing to backup, what is there to restore?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its all a matter of choice, period.
flashing stock, you dont need to do anything. flashing different mods, custom roms, gapps, or supersu, you need to use twrp recovery. you can even flash twrp to be permenant or flash twrp for a one time use. if you are flashing custom roms/mods regularly, its convieniant to have twrp, if your not it doesnt matter. but the one thing twrp is great for is backing up, in case. and you dont need many back ups, just one recent backup. so you can back up, then get rid of twrp until needed again. anyways, its all a personal choice, and thats all it is. for me, flashing twrp then leaving it makes sense, since ill never ever do anything stock. for you, you have your own needs and wants.

simms22 said:
its all a matter of choice, period.
flashing stock, you dont need to do anything. flashing different mods, custom roms, gapps, or supersu, you need to use twrp recovery. you can even flash twrp to be permenant or flash twrp for a one time use. if you are flashing custom roms/mods regularly, its convieniant to have twrp, if your not it doesnt matter. but the one thing twrp is great for is backing up, in case. and you dont need many back ups, just one recent backup. so you can back up, then get rid of twrp until needed again. anyways, its all a personal choice, and thats all it is. for me, flashing twrp then leaving it makes sense, since ill never ever do anything stock. for you, you have your own needs and wants.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for answering the question.
I figure when this phone (or whichever phone) is not my daily driver and no longer linked to sensitive stuff I will start venturing into the domain of custom ROMs and Kernels.

RLBL said:
Thank you for answering the question.
I figure when this phone (or whichever phone) is not my daily driver and no longer linked to sensitive stuff I will start venturing into the domain of custom ROMs and Kernels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
custom recoveries just make things easier for you, overall, to do stuff. but kernels, that could be the bomb. but you will need to learn about how to use governors/schedulers to make any kind of headways. for example, i use a completely different governor/scheduler(ondemand/deadline) than any other nexus kernel, and i feel that my way makes my phone much better/faster than any other setup. and thats whats important to me

Update: test passed (I knew it would)
With a stock recovery, I was able to use flashfire and upgrade to the latest update and re-root.

Backup/restore Nexus 6

Can I just restore the twrp generated nandroid on a replacement nexus 6?

not recommended, but you can try; just be prepared to restore it from scratch if it locks up..

NiNJAwitaRaZR said:
Can I just restore the twrp generated nandroid on a replacement nexus 6?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do NOT do this. A nandroid contains files that are device specific. You could end up needing a new replacement.

The replacment is another nexus 6 and I'm talking about the backup that twrp makes.

NiNJAwitaRaZR said:
The replacment is another nexus 6 and I'm talking about the backup that twrp makes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what you are talking about. Apparently you do not know just what the nandroid does or what its purpose is. A nandroid is a back up off the partitions on your device and some contain files made per device.
Just save yourself the head ache and set it up fresh. Doesnt take too long.

K thank you for the info

ok, all you people saying no, ive done this a few times with absolutely no issues after. BUT, it has to be done right, or you will have issues. just be sure that you create a nandroid on the new n6 first. then delete that new nandroid and stick the old nandroid in that same exact spot, within that folder. if the nandroid is from a phone thats not a n6, then make sure that only data is backed up and restored, nothing else.

simms22 said:
ok, all you people saying no, ive done this a few times with absolutely no issues after. BUT, it has to be done right, or you will have issues. just be sure that you create a nandroid on the new n6 first. then delete that new nandroid and stick the old nandroid in that same exact spot, within that folder. if the nandroid is from a phone thats not a n6, then make sure that only data is backed up and restored, nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you are running a very big risk of messing your imei and baseband up permanently. Nandroid backups include all partitions. They should only be restored on the device it was pulled from. Too many people trying to take the easy way out and being lazy. This leads to people doing warranty returns which to be honest unless you always remained stock and never modded then you should never use.

I'd done this to my one plus one but restore only boot , system and data partitions none other , no problem.. But thus is Nexus 6 , I don't want to take risk.

zelendel said:
Then you are running a very big risk of messing your imei and baseband up permanently. Nandroid backups include all partitions. They should only be restored on the device it was pulled from. Too many people trying to take the easy way out and being lazy. This leads to people doing warranty returns which to be honest unless you always remained stock and never modded then you should never use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wrong.. nandroid backup have whatever partition you included in the backup. DO NOT BACKUP YOUR IMEI!

simms22 said:
wrong.. nandroid backup have whatever partition you included in the backup. DO NOT BACKUP YOUR IMEI!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before telling someone they are wrong. Let alone me. You have to take into account how normal people will do it. Now just from your statement people will be expecting an IMEI partition. When they dont see one they will do a full nandroid and then guess what happens? You have to remember that people understanding what they are doing is not the people that need help with something like this. No one that has any real clue would restore a nandroid from one device to another. Hell most dont even bother with nandroids anymore. They are more noob tools then anything else.

Delete all files and re-partition all?

If you ever had loaded into recovery in temporary TWRP you'll note that even after formating /data/ and doing an advance wipe (selecting everything), then enter the file manager there is still a bunch of folders and some files throughout your device.
Is there a way to wipe out everything and start completely 100% fresh?

DO NOT DO THIS --- OR --- DO but do not cry about it
I have an answer to my question and it is as I suspected. The short and more official answer is, no. The longer answer is, yes, technically. -- But you should not try it unless you are 100% sure you can live without your phone (forever).
As it turns out no one had a full 100% flash for the whole device and its complete file system structure (except for Motorola). But as it turns out without a manufacturing cable it would be useless anyway. This is because part of your phone is protected and cannot be wiped clean and flashed so blindly... ie... Unlike your desktop computer. But if you're like me you have noticed some orphan files (a few logs).
Is it worth taking the risk just to clear some orphan files? Probably not. But since you do not have a manufacturing cable and technically, your phone can recover, what you can do is the following.
Do NOT use the TWRP installed on your phone. Rather use it in memory
Code:
sudo fastboot boot twrp-3.3.1-0-payton.img
Load TWRP and format DATA
Reboot, go to advance wipe, wipe everything.
Reboot to TWRP (again)
In TWRP via the terminal type in
HTML:
rm -r -f *
You will see a lot of things that cannot be deleted. This is because you do not have permission to do so. What little is removed will likely be restored after reboot from the master rom hidden somewhere on your phone which cannot be played with unless you have a manufacturing cable (so I am told). ---- If you have such a cable --- DO NOT DO THIS. --- If you suspect you have such a cable --- Do NOT do this. -- I did this with just my normal charging cable.
After you have run the command which will take forever. Tell TWRP to reboot to bootloader. You will now have a BLACK screen. This is where I panicked. I waited a while and long pressed down the power button (presumably turning off my device). Then I pressed down the power button and the lower volume button. -- Keep holding the buttons. -- It will take longer than you like but your phone will boot up. And low and behold everything that was in the master rom (chip?) has been restored and you will now see the bootloader screen (finally). Load TWRP and install your ROM of choice.
How many times have I done this successfully? 2x
Does this mean this is dependable? Unlikely
Do I recommend this? No.
Should you depend on this? No.
Are you taking a large gable? YES
Can this brick your device? YES, more than likely.
Should you do this if you have any doubts? NO.
Will you get any help if this goes wrong? NO.
So why did I do it? As I look to possibly upgrade my phone in the future I feel a little more daring and can afford to do so. lol

you say "yes, technically", but I have yet to see someone get back to a fully operational stock. The best they can do is get to a mostly operational custom ROM. I (and a bunch of other folks here) would love to be proven wrong.

KrisM22 said:
you say "yes, technically", but I have yet to see someone get back to a fully operational stock. The best they can do is get to a mostly operational custom ROM. I (and a bunch of other folks here) would love to be proven wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After performing this I installed only the official firmware. No additional ROM or GSI. The firmware itself includes the stock software.
A word of caution. --- I did this on 3 phones now. 2 work just fine. But 1 does not. The one that does not reports my IMEI as 0. This means it boots, it loads, it will play games and apps and update via Google Play Store, but it will never make a single phone call ever again. --- Food for thought.

Thanks. That got me thinking - I wonder if you took the one with no IMEI and plugged it to Moto's Smart Assistant, would it recognize it? Would it allow you to force flash it?

KrisM22 said:
Thanks. That got me thinking - I wonder if you took the one with no IMEI and plugged it to Moto's Smart Assistant, would it recognize it? Would it allow you to force flash it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The world will never know. lol --- I'm a Linux user and their app doesn't seem to like Wine. I suppose I could set up a virtual machine with Windows and hope to connect through that. But I was once informed you really cannot do that via a virtual machine. Unless I was misinformed?! In any case, flashing the phone is not a problem. I can wipe it and reinstall any ROM or GSI at the moment. Or I can repeat my process too back to stock under a full wipe. The results appear to be the same.
I already have ordered a cheap Moto G7 from Google as a replacement. My current plan will be to find a very light (small), bare-bones ROM / GSI and install it onto this Moto X4. From there I'll load it up with games and such and let the kids play with it. Figure since it cannot make or receive calls anymore (or text messages either) it will make for a fun little toy.

MotoX4 said:
The world will never know. lol --- I'm a Linux user and their app doesn't seem to like Wine. I suppose I could set up a virtual machine with Windows and hope to connect through that. But I was once informed you really cannot do that via a virtual machine. Unless I was misinformed?! In any case, flashing the phone is not a problem. I can wipe it and reinstall any ROM or GSI at the moment. Or I can repeat my process too back to stock under a full wipe. The results appear to be the same.
I already have ordered a cheap Moto G7 from Google as a replacement. My current plan will be to find a very light (small), bare-bones ROM / GSI and install it onto this Moto X4. From there I'll load it up with games and such and let the kids play with it. Figure since it cannot make or receive calls anymore (or text messages either) it will make for a fun little toy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks! Yeah, in the past I have been a lot on Ubuntu and stuff like this is not forgiving for wine.
It's a darn shame that we can't just send these phones to Moto with $25 and get it fixed. Oh well!

KrisM22 said:
Thanks. That got me thinking - I wonder if you took the one with no IMEI and plugged it to Moto's Smart Assistant, would it recognize it? Would it allow you to force flash it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moto smart assistant can`t recognize the phone in rescue mode..

St.Noigel said:
Moto smart assistant can`t recognize the phone in rescue mode..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know it can't on yours, and most folks with this prob. I was wondering about MotoX4's case. But thanks for trying it!
I had high hopes for that smart assistant when I discovered it, but no joy. When we lost RSDlite, we lost a lot - unless they upgrade it...

KrisM22 said:
I know it can't on yours, and most folks with this prob. I was wondering about MotoX4's case. But thanks for trying it!
I had high hopes for that smart assistant when I discovered it, but no joy. When we lost RSDlite, we lost a lot - unless they upgrade it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RSDlite? Lost? Is this what you seek? https://rsdlitetool.com/

MotoX4 said:
RSDlite? Lost? Is this what you seek? https://rsdlitetool.com/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
6.2.4 won't recognize a Moto X4 after it is upgraded to Pie.

I used RSDLite since the times of the P2K and MAGX (Linux)... but since it's easier to use fastboot commands...
I have a stock X4 Android One around, if I want to flash Pixel Experience, can I go back to stock in the future?

joel_sinbad said:
...snip...
I have a stock X4 Android One around, if I want to flash Pixel Experience, can I go back to stock in the future?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In all probability, NO.

Then I'm gonna stay on Stock Rom, so... If I want to flash custom Roms, there's not way back...

joel_sinbad said:
Then I'm gonna stay on Stock Rom, so... If I want to flash custom Roms, there's not way back...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read a lot on this forum, that's the message I see.

I agree, NO going back. You can, I have... flash any factory Pie rom . All will flash fine and no IMEI, wifi. Radios are gone. I use Google Fi and cell data services go wierd on custom roms, if you want carrier switching.

This makes me think that the Moto X4 is more dangerous than the back then Atrix 4G with their Tegra 2 chipset...

joel_sinbad said:
This makes me think that the Moto X4 is more dangerous than the back then Atrix 4G with their Tegra 2 chipset...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't recall thinking that the Moto Atrix 4g was at all dangerous when I had one - a rather nice phone imho, though that was a very long time ago. I don't think of the Moto X4 as "dangerous" - it is simply that there is not a correct understanding of the Pie file structure by the custom ROM devs such that their ROMs would not so change the file structure of the phone as to prevent it from being flashed back to stock.
Users need to recognize that, with this phone, you can't get back to stock if you flash any custom ROM.
afaik.
This change happened with the file structure and boot structure changes of the Pie update. Prior to that, folks could get away with all manner of mods. Devs for this phone need to approach modifications with the idea of assuring that any mod can be flashed back to stock, BEFORE it is released. That has not happened. And likely won't. User beware!

KrisM22..... Thank you for stating what I could not do as well.

kkjb said:
KrisM22..... Thank you for stating what I could not do as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we ALL do it, and CAN do it - all in hopes of saving some newbie from disaster!