hi to all
im completely new to the whole pda game, and have recently purchased my vario.
i have spent the last few weeks plodding around the forum, gaining hints and tips - just feeling myself around to understand the capabilities of my ppc.
its great to see so many dedicated people sharing information and helping one another - a real credit, and to the site as a whole, a complete wealth of valuable information. thanks to all involved!!
after my experience here so far, i have a small suggestion that may help everyone, especially other beginners find vital posts, or should i say specific posts within threads.
its very easy for threads to become huge due to thanks yous and suggestions, etc. (they can also stray way off path). obviously these are fantastic and move threads forward, but i was thinking that it would be really great, and save loads of time, if posts where an author, say, releases a tweak/hack or unlocker, has one main thread which they use to release. this thread is locked to replies, but a link is added to another reply thread, where other members can add their comments and suggestions, etc. the author could reply to individuals on this sub-thread, but post important comments and updated releases on the main thread.
thus anyone wanting to either view the history of an item, or just simply download the newest version of a hack could do so without the hassle of searching through say 30 pages.
this would also allow those who want to read the 'other member' comments do so.
obviously the sub thread would link up to the main thread...
i dont want to step on toes, but hopefully other members would agree and some new posts could start this way to see how it goes.
comments, remarks wellcome...
regards
dan
Well I think your idea is a good one in many ways but as updates come about comments and tips also come about and if they are all in order with the updates it does help with it as sometimes the author/developer of the a hack or tweak doesn't always get the instructions perfect and the experience of the other members as they try it and find a better way of using it or installing it helps and if you have them all in the same place and without the need of searching through another forum to find the right part of the page that corresponds with the current version. I think it would almost need to be put into portions. Example for the original hack has a forum then the next version has a forum and then it would keep it in order. What do you think??
as an alternative, a listing of the post # and date announcing the new release by the version number and content listing on the original post of a thread, or the "locked" thread suggested in this thread.
funkydan: I think it would make a lot of sense. I'll try to remember, but it can be hard to enforce. Good policy though.
V vbmenu_register("postmenu_952517", true);
One thought is if when you select New Thread you are given two options one for general threads and the other if you are wanting to post a piece of software etc and if they are wanting to post a normal thread they get taken to the normal thread creator but if they want to post a piece of software etc they are taken to a template where the enter in the info and then automatically another thread is created within that thread for other users to post. What do you think?
We are Waiting approval but please still vote
Please Rate this thread. The voting button is above this thread
Please also add your comments
I wish to start this poll to express an Idea I had this weekend. I have been browsing this site for a couple of years now and have noticed people starting threads for cab files only the only problem is that the first page is great then 2nd a 3rd pages get worse and worse pretty soon your looking through hundreds of posts and the thread is crap. My suggestion would to be to add another section in addtion to the main wizard forum seprate of upgrading and general and make a cabs section this would include specific cabs to make registry changes not all inclusive cabs also it would be for fixes and software to make our lives easier and to make it better we can have the moderators sign off on the cabs to verify they are "correct" or that they are relivant. The moderator can also have the right to delete superfolous posts and add cabs to the first post keeping the site clean. I think this will also keep the forum clean. So if this is a good Idea I'd like you to put your 2 cents in. Moderators if this seems like a good idea then I'd be happy to help.
I would like this post to be deleted at the end of this month as not to contribute to the problem.
I'm going to post an example
Windows Mobile 6 and 5 moderator approved Cabs
Change the G in the title bar to E for edge (link) Moderator approval(put names of moderator that has looked at the cab and verified funtionility here)
Windows Mobile 6 only moderator Approved Cabs
Turn on power management of SDcard (link) Moderator approval(put names of moderator that has looked at the cab and verified funtionility here)
Posts Can be added for example apps then deleted once a moderator tests and approves
bumb
Thanks Gys it looks like we are getting better results
This is infact a very good idea!!
Further, can we have "onshare" amongst all the XDA-DEV guys, so as to share cabs/tweaks and Roms safely and securely?
http://www.onshare.com/en_gb/index.php?ck=ok
on share
Sounds a good saves a lot of time
on share looks good set it up my id is easymob i have some roms to share
Good idea, it can be every hard to find a CAB you used once before and can't find after a ROM upgrade. I think it would also clean up the forums by reducing any CAB request threads etc.
It will indeed be a great time saver, as it's really hard currently to go through a lot of pages without actually having the link to the cab file.
Great Idea.
Isn't this why we have a Wiki?
Great time saver for members but a great time waster for mods, don't ya think?
anything that makes this website better is good with me.. this is the best site on the web.
time waster
Infact it would be quite the opposite problem. The moderator only need to monitor 1 thread and this will infact save time. How say you moderators. By keeping one thread clean and having a checks and balances system it will let the community know that we are trying to accomplish a goal towards providing resources for fixes etc. but keeping in mind that people in the community don't want to waste htere time either. As for the wiki that is a good resource but the idea is to keep the forum clean. If people had a forum link to go to then they would just need to go there for safe fixes and possibly not post over and over again. As aside I frequently ask moderators to erase my threads that seem not to help the community. I would also like to see more of these practices on this forum but I'm not a moderator so i have to rely on them.
suggestion
Another suggestion would to make all cabs registered as XDA Developers open source I have posted a working cab as an example. Maybe eventually we can work as a community to make our own freeware tweak utility suck as Tweaks2k.
Use the WIKI.
that's a good idea , and to make it even easier , we can upload some cabs we had already downloaded so everybody can use it
I agree with putting this in the wiki. There are still too many, "why isn't my device upgrading when I flash the rom?" questions going on right now for the moderators to do this very effiectively.
My vote goes to Wiki also! The idea is pretty cool and save a lot of time to all of us!
Time is money!
yea i agree... being organized will release the site from numerous senceless threads wen its easier to find something your looking for
Consider this another vote using the WIKI.
That's why it exists right ????
WIKI
OK how about putting a link on the forums page directly to the cabs on wiki
Yeah I'm thinking we would not have any problems posting on the FTP site unless their are roms. If you want I can host a site for Moderators to share cab files ECT. But I too would not want anyone to post illeagal software on it just fixes and patches
sids911 said:
This is infact a very good idea!!
Further, can we have "onshare" amongst all the XDA-DEV guys, so as to share cabs/tweaks and Roms safely and securely?
http://www.onshare.com/en_gb/index.php?ck=ok
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Sounds like a good idea in theory. But, I have a feeling it will also start out good and turn into a crap thread again. But it will depend on the moderators, if they are willing to put in the time and effort to keep it clean.
The TownHall Meeting has been officially started. Here are the rules of engagement:
Ok, enough joking for now. Here are the true rules of engagement:
1. Posts that are flaming or flame bait are to be deleted, no questions asked.
2. Language to be edited on sight....
3. No banning, No infractions.
4. Moderators will act only as a mediator, so we will not be taking sides with anyone.
Welcome everyone
@everyone,
Please respect the rules above and I can guarantee you that by the end of the day, we will have a much happier and friendlier atmosphere in this place.
Summary of action items
This was a good meeting in General and it has covered all of the things that I had in my agenda. A few action items on our (mods) end:
1. New threads for ROM updates: Rom threads become quasi chaotic after page 100 or so. Since Chefs update most of their work often, I would suggest that chefs open a new thread for each version with a date and version number to distinguish it from the previous one (maybe even a name)
ie [ROM] 12/15/10 - Inchybrid v 1.2 - all is good now
2. Rom Review Thread: In order to minimize the clutter of the usual "what rom is best" questions, we will start a ROM thread where chefs can post a link to their roms on the first few posts and users will be able to leave reviews (not necessarily feedback), but reviews. So, when someone comes asking for the best rom, that person can be directed there.
3. Wiki update and guides (sticky): These need to be heavily updated, but will certainly be a useful tool to help people with questions.
4. Location / shape of the Report button: I will talk to the other admins and see what can be done about this one.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
6. Off Topic Lounge: There will be a thread in General for you guys to blow off steam. Nothing fancy, but you can post there without having to open a new thread in OT general
Now, onto the action items results and requests from us (mods)
1. Further flaming for questions will not be tolerated. I gathered from this meeting that everyone agrees on a stance that people need not be flamed for asking anything. If there are questions in the wrong areas or simply don't feel like answering, refrain from posting and report it to us. We will move it to Q&A or General depending on the question. Building on this point, if anyone is caught flaming someone who posted in the correct section, that person will be given a vacation.
2. Rule 12 (aka Kanging): Rom chefs (no matter if they are themers or zip wizards), if they are using someone else's efforts as a base for their rom, they are to abide by Rule 12 by asking permission and posting the due credit in the opening post. Kanging will not be tolerated.
3. Donations: This was barely brushed but I feel that we reached an understanding rather quickly on this one. Chefs shall not ask for Donations to release early work.
4. Posting any kind of flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel that a post shouldn't be there, please let us know and we will take care of that.
I think this pretty much summed everything up. If I missed something, please let me know. I expect everyone to adhere to codes of conduct in this site. Thanks to all for attending.
I think the problems in the Development forums stem from a general misconception of what it means to be a "developer" and how one earns that title. Often I will hear people flame people like Team Whiskey or Master as mere "re-skinners", because the main(not all) thing that is in their changelog is mere aesthetic changes. I think the mods should post clearly that anything that involves changing the rom should be considered a type of development, even if only graphical development. This would dissolve any type of hate towards people that reskin or release graphical modifications to already existing roms.(IMHO)
Ok, since we are off to a slow start, there are a few topics that I would like to address today. The biggest one, in my book anyways, is forum conduct.
We have had numerous complains coming from the Vibrant fora from newcomers (n00bs) complaining that they cannot even dare ask anything due to fear of being flamed to smithereens. Anyone care to elaborate on this?
lralexl said:
I think the problems in the Development forums stem from a general misconception of what it means to be a "developer" and how one earns that title. Often I will hear people flame people like Team Whiskey or Master as mere "re-skinners", because the main(not all) thing that is in their changelog is mere aesthetic changes. I think the mods should post clearly that anything that involves changing the rom should be considered a type of development, even if only graphical development. This would dissolve any type of hate towards people that reskin or release graphical modifications to already existing roms.(IMHO)
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Thanks for starting things off...
So, what you are saying is that a lot of the flaming occurs due to skinners being deemed as kangers. Am I getting this right?
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
lralexl said:
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
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Fair enough, let me bring forth the rule that addresses this issue "Using the work of others"
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
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In essence skinning is ok so as long as the member seeks permission from the original dev. It looks like the biggest problem is either a misunderstanding about this rule or lack of knowledge about its existence by both accusing party and "guilty/innocent" party. As a general rule of thumb, if you are making a rom that is based on someone else's work:
* Ask for permission
* Give credit where its due
Simple as that.
Interesting point...
From my experience on hero, people tend to post a theme pack for a ROM. For example, a few regular users port the same few themes into each new ROM I make, and release an add-on patch for it.
They don't go and release it as a separate ROM, but if they did, I have no doubt they would ask me about it first, and I would say sure, but with the caveat that we don't want it to happen too often... What would people think if we had one ROM that is tweaked theme-wise a few times and re-posted as separate ROMs?
There's no "right" answer, but provided people ask the original developers, and give credit per rule 12, then there is no issue with the rules there, so users would be allowed to.
Whether or not it is a "ROM" is up to individual perspectives then.
egzthunder1 said:
Fair enough, let me bring forth the rule that addresses this issue "Using the work of others"
In essence skinning is ok so as long as the member seeks permission from the original dev.
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I don't even think its a permission issue really. I've just seen in a few threads people calling a skinner a developer, and then you'll have a flamefest erupt of people saying that skinning or winzipping isn't developing. I think this leads everyone more away from the truth that it's all contributions to the community and should be treated as such.
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
lralexl said:
I don't even think its a permission issue really. I've just seen in a few threads people calling a skinner a developer, and then you'll have a flamefest erupt of people saying that skinning or winzipping isn't developing. I think this leads everyone more away from the truth that it's all contributions to the community and should be treated as such.
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Ok, I think that we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. Conceptions of what people's role is should not be grounds for calling someone out or flaming them. The whole thing actually gets simpler from this point on.
One (implied) rule of thumb is that if the "dev" in question cannot support their release, you are more than likely dealing with a themer or a "zip wizard" and as such, you are probably better off trying to find the source of the rom and apply the theme/fix as a separate add-on.
Keslynn said:
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
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It may be a bit of added work, but the Rom review thread is not a bad idea. Just keep it clean from clutter and you have a very good tool to prevent new threads of "What is the best rom?" kind from erupting... I like that!
When it comes from flaming, some people will just put out flame bait for the hell of it. What I need, or at least I would like to see, is for everyone to stick to code of conduct and either ignore it, report it, or else, just not add to the fire.
First, we do recognize that we have a problem. We know this because 1) developers are leaving and forming their own sites because they don't like some of the things going on here. And 2) newer people are afraid to post here. Instead, they go to other forums and ask questions and state that they are afraid to post here. Both of these are big problems for the health of the site.
So, we look at the root causes. Most of them stem from 1) a lack of courtesy or 2) a lack of proper conduct. But I think the problems start with:
1. The Samsung Vibrant's stock software is not up to par due to some poor performing components, such as the GPS.
2. Samsung and T-Mobile have failed to communicate with their community.
3. Many people have come to sites like XDA for help.
What this means is that we have a lot of people in the Development forum who really aren't developers. But, they are here because they want help making their Vibrants perform better. That's not an excuse. I'm just saying that we probably have a lot of people in the Developer section who probably should be in QA or General section.
I think we would do well to:
1. Create a NooB forum, or emphasize the General forum as the place to be.
2. Post all new released ROMs in its own forum (not General, but "ROMS" or "Releases") That way people can go there for ROMS and for SUPPORT.
3. I would hope that this would enable the development forum to get back to being one were developers (or people who are interested in developing) could hang out.
Lastly, there are just some people who are like to cause trouble or are overly sensitive. I'm not sure what to do with them. But if they can't play nice, probably the first thing is to "parent" them and see if they can play nice. If that doesn't work, then it is time for a "timeout", or a temporary or permanent ban.
Lastly, while I appreciate the TownHall meeting, let's not lose site of the good things happening here. I would say that the majority of people are following the rules and making meaningful contributions. But if just 10% of the people do bad things, it colors the entire community.
The Vibrant subforums have seemed to be more Wild West than anything. I feel there should be a better mod presence. Don't get me wrong, I know exactly how difficult it is to do all the moderating, especially given how much of it is behind the scenes, but I feel that there is still some regulation lacking. We need to see more people get warned within threads that get out of hand, and frankly, some banning might get the message across that XDA is going to stop taking this crap from people. This board has gotten ridiculous w/ the flaming and incessant bs. Moderation can only go so much, since it's really up to the posting base to change their ways and be more respectful towards one another in order to truly make a long-term difference, but in the short-term we need some better, more aggresive moderation since changing peoples' posting habits will not be a quick thing to happen.
Proud to be a noob
I think there does seem to be a general consensus around us "noobs" about our failure to use the "search" function in a thread that has over 600 + pages of posts. God knows I would love to just flash a ROM and read basic information or FAQ's from the developer (the one individual who SHOULD know more about their own product than anyone) if I have questions, but when you have over 200 posts about how much others love/hate the ROM/developer or personal rants or recommendations/requests for the ROM they have had no part in developing, it does make it difficult to filter out the answer to the force close issue I am experiencing (for example). Then the flame wars begin! How DARE I ask that question since it was answered previously 42 pages back with a link to another developers thread, posted on page 418 of their 700 page manifesto...you get the hint. Finding basic answers to questions is challenging at best, and most newcomers end up getting ridiculed to the point of not wanting to have any further part, or end up flaming right back. Newsflash : just because you have flashed every possible combination of ROM/kernel/modem, does in no way make you an expert. Leave that to the people that make the ROM. Replies should be streamlined to relevant information allowed only, or force a PM if you want to discuss something irrelevant or bash a newcomer if it makes you feel better.
Keslynn said:
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
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I was think about that the other day...that's a good idea and that way the develoment forum will be kept clean.
lralexl said:
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
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Are you able to comment on the personal issues or are you simply surmising?
Thanks
WB
egzthunder1 said:
Ok, I think that we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. Conceptions of what people's role is should not be grounds for calling someone out or flaming them. The whole thing actually gets simpler from this point on.
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To expand on this point, I've noticed people flaming over pretty much any definition. Someone posts that they're disappointed by GPS performance or screen burn in, and they get an argument over what constitutes a "feature" of the phone and told that their concern is not important. People forget that what might not be important to them may be a dealbreaker for someone else.
egzthunder1 said:
Ok, since we are off to a slow start, there are a few topics that I would like to address today. The biggest one, in my book anyways, is forum conduct.
We have had numerous complains coming from the Vibrant fora from newcomers (n00bs) complaining that they cannot even dare ask anything due to fear of being flamed to smithereens. Anyone care to elaborate on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since that's where I spend most of my time I can say for certain that this is true. I think there's a lot of younger kids in the vibrant forum who like picking fights and just generally being less than friendly. It seems like the answer to most questions asked is go search for it yourself. The information is readily available most of the time if theyd just look, but there's no reason to be rude about it.
With that said, I think since the thanks button has been added its made for a better atmosphere--so far. Definitely a welcome addition that will hopefully keep things civil.