Database Develop

State of the Forum/Newbies

Okay, this post is really intended as a comment and I am not going to pretend I have THE answer but I do have some suggestions to spark discussion.
Based on a lot of the recent comments and back and forth about newbies/tech support I think that the forum is trending the same way I have seen MANY other forums go. What happens is simple; a group of first adopters, who are by default, technically capable, get together on a forum and start to fill in the gaps in tech support, especially when it comes to 'modded' soft or hardwre. They spend a while helping each other out and a comfort level develops. Members know where to go, and when to ask questions.
Then what happens is that the hardware becomes much more popular. All of a sudden your average Joe can walk out a Cingular store with a 8125 for a couple hundred bucks. These folks are NOT early adopters. They are not necessarily tech savvy. They are the people that are most prone to 'keyboard to chair interface errors'. Since the early members did such a good job raising the profile of the forum it starts to come up every time someone does a Google search. and they all end up over their heads.
So then the folks that have been around for a while start to get frustrated. Why should they provide tech support? Why can't these newbies read? Why should they even try to help if they get barraged by stupid questions?
Well I think that takes us to where we are now, so the question is what do we do now? In my experience the only solution that I have seen is to have people equally dedicated to wiki and sticky writing as they are to writing ROMs and programs. The truth is that if you release something you WILL become tech support and a large part of tech support is writing documentation and then explaining it to others.
I have intended this post as something helpful and to spark discussion, not as a criticism of anyone in particular or any particular group. Hopefully it will be taken as such

I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V

As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?

d0ug said:
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
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I agree with you d0ug! It is rather confusing to navigate and find your way. Especially when you are a n00b, such as myself. I have been trying to mod my phone for 3 days now. I have tried many ways of unlocking my G3, but none of them have worked. I have listened to 3 different people tell me their "way" of unlocking the phone, and all 3 attempts failed in the end. I get flamed for not reading posts or searching, when i did, just nothing relevant popped up! This is not a whine fest, just saying that some people dont have phones that were built on a Wednesday, like mine that was probably built on a Monday and has issues!
Either way, i called Cingular and they are shipping me a brand new 8125 to test things out on!
Canon

Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents

vijay555 said:
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
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Vijay, very happy to see that the mods are looking at this. I agree that Wiki's have their limitations especially given the validity of some of the comments about conflicting advice.
The search function definitely does have its limits as well, and people are less likely to go through searches that produce a 100 threads with 5 pages each.
I for one would feel a lot better about telling someone harshly to stop answering questions if I knew that I could also direct them to a single place for answers.

I really love this forum and it has helped me so much. I don't post much except to say "thank you" from time to time to the people who have made some program that has been helpful to me. And although I have been coming to this board every day for over a year I still don't know half as much as the majority of people here.
Some solutions to this problem are:
1) get frustrated and write a mean message to the noob
2) take a minute and just give the link to the page where the answer is
3) make it easier on this forum to find things

_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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Click to collapse
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)

vseehua said:
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
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I would like to see a thread dedicated to G4 devices, with verified correct information in it.
It isnt just people asking the same questions over and over making the search junk. Its the inability to even search for simple short 3 letter acronyms like CID, IPL, SPL, AKU. These are all things I have tried to search for and get 0 results. If I were able to search for these terms I could probably turn up a wealth of information on my own.

_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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Click to collapse
That would work me thinks!!!!!

Hi all,
I've been reading this forum for weeks now and still have not found enough answers to be secure enough and cid-unlock my G3 2.21 vario.
I HAVE indeed read most relevant threads, although navigating them can be somewhat confusing. However When I posted some -in my n00b opinion - valid questions I either got 1) no reply whatsoever 2) replies to read "the" threads....which wasn't really helpfull or I wouldn't have asked 3) contradicting advice .... like a 2.21 G3 Can be unlocked, or it Cannot be unlocked, you have to downgrade twice, you have to upgrade twice, you Can or Cannot flash a G4 rom to a G3 device so you won't have to downgrade and CID unlock your phone first, etc.
I believe that I am somewhat beyond the real n00b level right now but still I'd like information to be more consistent and easier to find, I've already tried to suggest making a stickied n00b FAQ or wiki for us where to find the basic answers in a easy and consistent manner so the sdame questions aren't asked over and over and ROM threads hijacked for support questions.
but that is just my cup of tea.
thanks for a good forum with vlauable info.
stefan.

Regular search
Personally, I find using google or yahoo, with site:xda-developers.com, works much better than the forum search. My personal pet peeve is the inability to use quotes to search for phrases. Quotes don't work.
A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out and ask them to submit a wiki for something they just learned. If we had a submission point for the wiki, perhaps those of us who recently learned new things would do a how-to write-up and submit it to the wiki.
Finally, there are a lot of repeat threads, many with false or useless information. These threads stand in the way of a searcher. I would be happier if the moderators deleted more bad threads. Alternatively, we could use democracy -- add a "vote to delete" button to every thread not posted by a moderator and if a high enough percentage vote to delete, the thread is gone. I'd suggest 20% as a threshold -- more than that and the thread goes away.

Have been reading all your comments and completely agree with you guys... I see you have specific problems on G3/G4 on Wizards, as someone suggested a separate subforum for G4 devices would be ideal for you, and also for Prophet I guess.
About the search functions I'm also using google to search as a fallback when I can't find specific things using vBulletin's integrated search function, there's a thread on the mod forum where we discussed how to improve it, but seems is not very active now... will try to push Flar to do something about that.
Regarding the wiki, I think everyone should be less afraid to edit, if you look at the "recent changes" you see always the same people is editing. Have a look at the Hermes or BlueAngel wiki pages, these are good examples on how info has to be organized on the wiki, it's easy to find everything on the front page and information is well divided. Formating may seem a bit complicated at the beginning, but you don't have to care too much if you just want to add content, sure someone more experienced with wiki syntax will edit and correct any bad formating mistakes.

I do 100% agree with you that the wiki itself doesn't cover half of what it should. Yet if you take the time to read through it, and the links, you should be quite familiar with your device...
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
So, unfortunatly this is going to continue unless you put constraints on the board... I'm sorry, but that's what's gonna happen.

Seems to me that since this was posted the situation has sorta escalated... Faria, Molski, risidoro and just now Dr P has announced their leave.
In this rate all that'll be left will be the newbies soon. Sad to witness

_Nomad_ said:
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
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It's also very human.
_Nomad_ said:
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
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There just should be enough moderators. Now what happens when you write something stupid is you also get useless answers like "don't do that" which just makes everything even worse. There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
Two main things to handle this (just my opinion):
Re-designed forum structure
Moderators
(well, the structure should be designed in the first place so that it would be easy to extend it later...not an easy job)

prestonmcafee said:
...A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out...
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I usually suggest to those asking questions to post the solution to their question in the first post. But I'm over at the Mio forums, and since we only have 4500 peps, the mods aren't overwhelmed. I can lock a thread, post the correct thread to post in, and a few days later, delete the thread. I spend 1/2 my time using the search function to consolidate questions into single threads. But like I said, that's not feasible here. I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason

mlehtola said:
There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
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Ummm, have you ever taken the time to look at the Wiki?
This forum is being provided to us basically for free. (Except for voluntary donations.) I personally can't afford to donate $$$ to the community, or for that matter to individual developers, so I dedicate some time to post in the forums to share what I've learned. I have also donated time to updating the Wiki.
If the Wiki doesn't contain all you would like it to, just add it yourself! One brief tutorial could make a world of difference to a newbie, or even a more experienced user. It also helps to point out gaps in the general knowledge we have here in these forums.
If, for example, there isn't a sub-forum for the device you use, you don't have to wait for the moderators, etc. to create it. Just create a Wiki page, and get the ball rolling on your own!
Take the initiative! That's what these forums were founded on!
Just my opinion.
Now go have fun!

JKR said:
I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, you get much better, and more detailed search results by using a search-engine like Google. Their advanced search features do a fantastic job, and can be fine tuned to search only through a specific site. (i.e. http://forum.xdadevelopers.com )
Secondly, as opposed to a PM, possibly an email with a confirmation link after the introductory information.
Hope this helps....
Now go have fun!

I think it is more synonymous of the world today, do you read the manual when you buy a new stereo or mobile phone, or do you dig in saying 'nah i know how it works it'll be ok'. People just dont take the time to understand first, they think they know it all and then the proverbial hits the fan! As an experienced R&D firmware developer it doesn't matter how easy I make the interface you will always get those that stuff it up!
So not such an easy one to fix, you have given the masses a place to ask the ridiculous and the tools to stuff up easily, How do you fix that?
Riptos

Noob question: can you explain me ROMs, Kernels, Radio, Mods, etc ?

Hi all,
I'm quite new to this android stuff, and especially modding. And I have to tell that I feel a bit lost.
After a few days browsing this forum and other places on the internet, I think I know what a ROM and rooting are. But here I see things like kernels, radio, bootloaders... could someone explain me what those are and how they are related together? Or show me an url that explains all this.
Thanks a lot!

Bricolo_fr said:
Hi all,
I'm quite new to this android stuff, and especially modding. And I have to tell that I feel a bit lost.
After a few days browsing this forum and other places on the internet, I think I know what a ROM and rooting are. But here I see things like kernels, radio, bootloaders... could someone explain me what those are and how they are related together? Or show me an url that explains all this.
Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not real sure how to explain all this stuff in great detail but i will try and tell you all that i know. I think a kernel has to do with the drivers and things like that. A radio has to do with the everything that uses connections, i guess you would call it. Like your phone's network, wifi, bluetooth, etc. And for the bootloader i don't really know how to explain it but press and hold the power button and the trackball at the same time. thats the bootloader.
This should help some... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=619153

Bricolo_fr said:
Hi all,
I'm quite new to this android stuff, and especially modding. And I have to tell that I feel a bit lost.
After a few days browsing this forum and other places on the internet, I think I know what a ROM and rooting are. But here I see things like kernels, radio, bootloaders... could someone explain me what those are and how they are related together? Or show me an url that explains all this.
Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Bricolo!
Welcome to the forums!
I'll help you out here, but you're going to have to do some work too.
How about I do two, and you do two?
[Google]: android "what is a rom"
http://forum.androidcentral.com/hacking/6037-general-rom-faq.html
If you’re new to the Android platform (don’t be bashful, all of us were not too long ago), you’ll see terms floating around the forums that you might not be familiar with. “ROM” is one of those terms. A ROM image is a data file that contains information used on a Read Only Memory chip. For our purposes, that means a complete system image of an Android device. Each Android device has it’s own ROM image that contains files and code needed to boot the device up and run Android on it. But this is only part of a ROM. A ROM also contains a GUI (graphical user interface), required and useful applications, support files for those applications and the kernel. Let’s have a look at the parts that make a ROM.
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http://www.droidforums.net/forum/droid-general-discussions/37418-what-rom.html
"ROM" is just a generic term for the software that makes up the OS, and a bit of a misnomer. This term could easily be changed to "OS sofware" or "system software". It does mean Read Only Memory, but ROM likely comes from that part of the system memory, since you dont want to be able to write over the system files (easily).
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[Google]: android "what is a kernel"
http://androidforums.com/developer-101/62548-what-kernel.html
A kernel is basically the bridge between applications and the data processing at the hardware level. It serves as a level of abstraction for communication.
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http://www.applematters.com/article/how-long-will-apple-keep-the-mach-microkernel/
The easy answer is a kernel is the core of any operating system. DOS, Windows, UNIX, OS X and Linux all have some type of kernel. The implementations change but the basic concept remains the same. A kernel interfaces directly with the system’s hardware and is the lowest level of software. There are two types of kernels, micro-kernels and monolithic-kernels.
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[Google]: android "what is a radio"
Your site(s) here.
[Google]: android "what is a bootloader"
You can do it!
[Google]: android "what is a X"
Google: It really is that easy

Good stuff Paul, it's refreshing to see someone go out of their way to help a newbie every once in a while

There are more polite ways to respond to this guy. Some people learn through interaction. I'm glad someone went out of their way to explain things to this guy. It's a shame how cut throat this community can be sometimes.

I agree, the attitude and lame jokes are really immature at times. Thanks paul for putting a lil effort and explaining few of the key points than cracking the usual radio is a fm/am joke here, the extreme nerdism almost kills me! lol.

As for the cutthroat and "nerdism" out there in this community, you have to remember, most of us that are regulars are ones that have been on this forum for a loooooooong while and not just in the Nexus One sections. I have migrated from WM to Android and see these posts time and time again.
There are Stickied "Noob" guilds galore, there is a search feature, there are TONS of resources out there for someone who puts in a MINIMAL effort can get this BASIC information.
When I first came here, I didn't just open a new post on "what is a ROM and ..." I read, I researched and when something wasn't clear and needed more information that wasn't out there, THEN I posted.
Those of us that may seem like we have an attitude aren't mean people, we don't expect everyone to come here with all the answers an NO questions, we just have an expectation that they at least put forth a LITTLE effort on figuring something out.
Paul did a great job in searching, but you have to wonder why the OP didn't even TRY and google anything or search here?
The impression I got is that it is not worth the OP's time to even try, so they put up a post asking these questions and expected the community to do all the work for them and compile some massive resource into a post that the OP most likely won't read and then start asking questions that were already answered in replies or links.
I have seen this happen time and time again on this board and others, so yeah, I am a bit of a jerk when someone puts forth no effort of their own.

Thanks a lot, Paul and the guys that helped
About me asking, and being new here... I DID search on this forum, but didn't find everything I needed. I used the search function, read the sticky threads, googled... After this, I still had questions, meaning that the information I got was not sufficient and that the additional information I was seeking wasn't accessible enough here. So that's why I asked.
If you don't like new people asking questions, but only expect new members to be experienced ones that will arrive with software/tricks/roms/etc "gifts" for you,you should reconsider your lifes. Maybe as sultans or something similar I agree with the remark about nerdy attitudes. Do you really think this is needed? If my topic is unwanted here, some people called moderators will lock or delete it, it seems it hasn't happened so far...

Back to the initial topic...
Well, maybe I did not make things clear enough. I'm not a complete computer noob. I know what a ROM is (not being specific to android devices), what an OS is, how to write a few lines of code, etc...
From what I understood, the bootloader can be see as the bios in a PC. It can execute a few tasks (diagnostics, rom flash, starting the OS...). The ROM contains the OS, software, config, etc...
As I said, what I don't really see is how all the things are related to each other. On this forum (and other places) I see a lot of alternative ROMs. I do understand what they are and their use. However I also see topics about kernels and radios, and that got me a bit lost. Aren't they already included in the ROMs?
Also, I'd like to learn a bit about how alternative ROMs are created. When additional features (applications?) are added to a ROM (features that were existing on other devices), is it "simply" the application files that from the other device that have been included to the ROM? When new features are added (not coming from other devices, like trackball led), how is that made? I assume it is added to the code somewhere, so is all the code available?
Thanks for helping

I'm going to move this thread to the Q&A section, and also clean up the noob bashing. Remember, not only is bashing discouraged throughout the entire site, but doing it in the Q&A section will likely earn you a short vacation from XDA.
Thanks,
NATF

What good is QA if question threads are closed

I started a new thread asking for ROM suggestions that met specific criteria... no where did i ask for a ROM without issues.
I got a few suggestions (most were "I like X" and not what i was after) and then the moderator locked the thread with the answer:
Your best bet is to try a few roms and stick with the one you like best. Most of the custom roms are good but to ask for something that has no issues when they are being built off a port and not Captivate source code is a bit of a stretch. There are no promises with custom roms, that is just the way it is.
So what good is the QA section if i Can't ask which ROMs support Exchange, BT, etc. I have tried a bunch that don't but now that there are 20 or so, there must be one that fits my needs.
I don't usually call people out, but closing a thread in Q/A when there is all kinds of other stuff going on is silly.
Do we have new rules for the Q/A section? Apparently soliciting advice on specifics is offensive to some. If it was closed because people can't answer the question - then you are punishing the OP.
I am a mod on other sites, and i am surprised this thread was closed with such impunity.

I guess this thread will be closed or deleted soon too. But thanks for reading.

alphadog00 said:
I started a new thread asking for ROM suggestions that met specific criteria... no where did i ask for a ROM without issues.
I got a few suggestions (most were "I like X" and not what i was after) and then the moderator locked the thread with the answer:
Your best bet is to try a few roms and stick with the one you like best. Most of the custom roms are good but to ask for something that has no issues when they are being built off a port and not Captivate source code is a bit of a stretch. There are no promises with custom roms, that is just the way it is.
So what good is the QA section if i Can't ask which ROMs support Exchange, BT, etc. I have tried a bunch that don't but now that there are 20 or so, there must be one that fits my needs.
I don't usually call people out, but closing a thread in Q/A when there is all kinds of other stuff going on is silly.
Do we have new rules for the Q/A section? Apparently soliciting advice on specifics is offensive to some. If it was closed because people can't answer the question - then you are punishing the OP.
I am a mod on other sites, and i am surprised this thread was closed with such impunity.
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1. All ROMs may not work the same on all hardware. So try them out to find out which suits u best.
2. If u have any issues, ask in the ROM specific thread preferably.
3. Read the ROM thread. Generally in the OP or in a post or two that follow, all the things included in the ROM are listed, along with anything that doesn't work. That should take care of u knowing if the ROM u r looking at has it or not.
Last but not the least, people may not always appreciate a question for which answer is easily search-able, or has been answered already many times, or are present in the ROM thread on page 1. Literally every rom today has the OP or the post following that details what all the ROM has, and where it fails.

I understand the op's concern as he was asking about some specific features which, although important to many users, are usually not addressed in the rom op.
You happen to be a casualty of the war against "which rom is best" posts.
Feel free to start a thread questioning when we will see gingerbread, or speculating on why we have yet to receive froyo though. Those appear much more frequently and are allowed to blossom into flame fests.

newter55 said:
I understand the op's concern as he was asking about some specific features which, although important to many users, are usually not addressed in the rom op.
You happen to be a casualty of the war against "which rom is best" posts.
Feel free to start a thread questioning when we will see gingerbread, or speculating on why we have yet to receive froyo though. Those appear much more frequently and are allowed to blossom into flame fests.
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wow, thought I was the only one who noticed that..

newter55 said:
I understand the op's concern as he was asking about some specific features which, although important to many users, are usually not addressed in the rom op.
You happen to be a casualty of the war against "which rom is best" posts.
Feel free to start a thread questioning when we will see gingerbread, or speculating on why we have yet to receive froyo though. Those appear much more frequently and are allowed to blossom into flame fests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Best 2 sentences I've read in a long time.
As to your issue. I agree that you should be able to ask a legitimate question like that. You're not one of those asking which is fastest or which will get me higher quad scores. I'm thinking there's probably not a great deal of people who would have tested all those options either. Like myself, I have no use for Exchange or BT or even GPS for that matter. I can speak for the parts I use, which are the google apps and other things.
I would think that if you want the most complete ROM you should stay close to stock. Right now I think there are only 2 custom ROMs built from the stock Captivate ROM, Cognition and Firefly. Firefly does use an i9000 based kernel/modem, so I don't know if that affects the functionality you're looking for.
When in doubt, just keep loading all the ROMs to test them out.......j/k terrible idea.

Well sense you wanted to call someone out, I replied to you telling why I closed it and if you are a mod on another forum you should understand about asking for info that can be searched for and found with a little research. So lets look at your requirments for a rom that is built from a port and not Captivate Source code.
1. Stable-Most roms
2. Americanized-? the local settings can be set in each rom
3. No FFC stuff- not sure what FC issuses you are talking about.
4. Good sound/voice quality-Love the sound on mine mixed with the sppedmod kernel and vodoo sound app
5. BT support (voice dial would be nice - even with vlingo) 2.2
6. Exchange Support-2.2.1
7. Decent battery- that is all on what you consider decent battery, Mine lasts 12 hours and that is good battery for me
8. 2.2 or 2.2.1-most roms are built off of 2.2.1 there are some that are 2.2
9. Good data-Speeds is what I assume you mean, that is as much carrier as rom based
all this was found with a search, which I see more and more people are not using. This is not a make my phone cool forum. For lack of a better term this is an Research & development Forum.
Might want to Look at the FAQ in the threads that have them to see if you see any issues that is a deal breaker for you.
As for your other thread that is all you were gonna get was I like this this rom or I like that one. We all understand that custom roms are a give and take deal. You want the newest Unofficial stuff then you most be willing to deal with some issues that might come up. If you want something that works 100%, 100% of the time then I would stay stock as there are no promises with custom roms

newter55 said:
I understand the op's concern as he was asking about some specific features which, although important to many users, are usually not addressed in the rom op.
You happen to be a casualty of the war against "which rom is best" posts.
Feel free to start a thread questioning when we will see gingerbread, or speculating on why we have yet to receive froyo though. Those appear much more frequently and are allowed to blossom into flame fests.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
I also think more should be done about all the questions in general. Move those to q&a and start handing out warnings. This is ridiculous.

At least I am not alone.
How many ROMs are there now? For me to search every single ROM thread (including all change logs) to see if a ROM meets my specific needs is silly.
I hate when people ask "how do I flash back to stock" and this is not one of those questions. I can't type this in the search field "Rom support for 1-10" and get any meaningful hit. And many ROMs link to alternate sites, and you have to view the features there - when they are all listed.... Some don't list email support until you go to the FAQ and it says email.apk was removed.
Again, I am not a newb looking for sympathy - I just want some equality in the heavy hammer. Next time I will title my thread "when will we see gingerbread" and all will be good.

boborone said:
+1
I also think more should be done about all the questions in general. Move those to q&a and start handing out warnings. This is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you think that If a question is posted that can be found with a simple search that a warning should be handed out?
I understand that the Captivate is for alot of people their first smartphone, and can be overwhelming, so new question threads for things that can be searched for are gonna happen.

alphadog00 said:
At least I am not alone.
How many ROMs are there now? For me to search every single ROM thread (including all change logs) to see if a ROM meets my specific needs is silly.
I hate when people ask "how do I flash back to stock" and this is not one of those questions. I can't type this in the search field "Rom support for 1-10" and get any meaningful hit. And many ROMs link to alternate sites, and you have to view the features there - when they are all listed.... Some don't list email support until you go to the FAQ and it says email.apk was removed.
Again, I am not a newb looking for sympathy - I just want some equality in the heavy hammer. Next time I will title my thread "when will we see gingerbread" and all will be good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remove those threads when I see them come up. As silly as it might be that is what your gonna have to do. If you want a perfect rom your best bet is to learn to make it your self. Do you understand what "from a port" means. That means it was not made for our device and that there will be issues. The Dev try to fix them but like I said there is no 2.2 Captivate source code to build from so they do the best they can. Look I am not trying to come across rude but all these threads asking for this and that and "wtf this doesnt work" Is really starting to get on my last nerve. The only advice one can truly give is "Read, read and read some more to make sure you have all your bases covered."
I am not gonna argue the point any longer and will give this thread a few minutes for people to reply before I close it.

+1 Make your own, I did.
The time you flash all the rom's in the forum and test it out, you probably could of custom built your own to your specifications. So many roms out there, just not the flash freak like I was, too much time.

[Q] Diversity of roms/kernels

Hi,
Firstly, I don't want to sound unrespectful to developers. It is just a few complains but I admire the time each one spend for creating new roms. There are lots, lots of roms/kernels in the android development section. It's a complete jungle! For a non technical user, I find it really difficult to choose a rom because:
There are no standard table stating what is different with the other. The list described by each developer is not always clear. Especially when he or she sees "aroma", "CRT", "ram hack", "zipalign" without explication. Wouldn't one nice and small sentence be sufficient to explain these terms?
The issues for each rom are not tracked. I think there should be a tracking system like JIRA so that we can confirm if a bug is already described and if it is still present in future release.
It should be clear if a rom is based from stock or AOSP rom (edit: it's not always obvious).
There is no centralized topic explaining the differences. But I have seen there is topic listing roms.
To my mind, there should be in each rom description something like a history, a short sentence like "I have based this rom on this other rom because I feel it lacks this and that." (not always the case), instead of just throwing "hi, [screenshot], how to install this rom?". ^^
I believe what happen is that one user will check the 3 or 4 first roms and will get confused.
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people. I think a centralized JIRA (each rom = one project) idea would be very helpful to compare but I don't know if it is easy to implement.
What do you think?

ergosum said:
Hi,
Firstly, I don't want to sound unrespectful to developers. It is just a few complains but I admire the time each one spend for creating new roms. There are lots, lots of roms/kernels in the android development section. It's a complete jungle! For a non technical user, I find it really difficult to choose a rom because:
There are no standard table stating what is different with the other. The list described by each developer is not always clear. Especially when he or she sees "aroma", "CRT", "ram hack", "zipalign" without explication. Wouldn't one nice and small sentence be sufficient to explain these terms?
The issues for each rom are not tracked. I think there should be a tracking system like JIRA so that we can confirm if a bug is already described and if it is still present in future release.
It should be clear if a rom is based from stock or AOSP rom (not always the case).
There is no centralized topic explaining the differences. But I have seen there is topic listing roms.
To my mind, there should be in each rom description something like a history, a short sentence like "I have based this rom on this other rom because I feel it lacks this and that." (not always the case), instead of just throwing "hi, [screenshot], how to install this rom?". ^^
I believe what happen is that one user will check the 3 or 4 first roms and will get confused.
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people. I think a centralized JIRA (each rom = one project) idea would be very helpful to compare but I don't know if it is easy to implement.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually always or it is baseed on stock or aosp or cyanogenmod it's pretty much in every thread i see. it's always described in the information they write.
and a centralized topic where is everything written well. it's for everybody else some like Lg stock ui and some like more clean android
Issue tracking jira i dont really understand i only know that developers are just wanting a catlog if there is a problem so they can see from what the problem is coming from or what it is related.
and that from a short sentence well. every rom misses something it's for everybody different and in almost all roms they are describing where it is based on and they have permission to use other work (the base) but some people are not asking it like the miui team who just took kowalski kernel without permission and they don't even give credit or something like that.
this post is just my opinion how i think it is

ergosum said:
...
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do support the idea of asking the developers for more detailed info of their ROM / kernel features, however keep in mind that this is an Android development site - members are expected to have some level of knowledge and / or the will to learn stuff by themselves.
On the other hand, I've seen developers who care enough to spend time writing detailed documentation about their work and yet you'll find people asking questions or posting stuff without even reading the OP or using the search function. This obviously discourages the developer. Who will want to spend hours or even days writing how their stuff works or what are its main features if people won't take the time to read it?

DrummerMuppet said:
I do support the idea of asking the developers for more detailed info of their ROM / kernel features, however keep in mind that this is an Android development site - members are expected to have some level of knowledge and / or the will to learn stuff by themselves.
On the other hand, I've seen developers who care enough to spend time writing detailed documentation about their work and yet you'll find people asking questions or posting stuff without even reading the OP or using the search function. This obviously discourages the developer. Who will want to spend hours or even days writing how their stuff works or what are its main features if people won't take the time to read it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand, but I don't ask for hours of well descriptions. One sum-up sentence and one link to a topic where other people has already spent the time should be enough. Example: an developer says "here are the 3 kernels [links]" and the only difference you can tell when looking at the links was "32rh", "16rh", "0rh". I had to guess that "rh" is ram hack and search for what it is. While with just "the ram hack is taking memory from GPU for the CPU", it's a clean and quick explanation. Otherwise people are bound to ask questions when they see this.
As for the JIRA system, it's just more obvious to see, for a newcomer:
how much issue a rom has at the moment
if a troubling issue important for you is described and prevent you from using the rom (so you don't waste time)
help the developer to see easyly what is wrong (instead of navigating through all the post)
help the developer by centralizing all the relevant information for one issue in one page, instead of having these spread everywhere

[Q&A] [ROM][LOLLIPOP][RRO-Layers] XenonHD-5.0.2 Beta5 (Feb. 6th 2015)

Q&A for [ROM][LOLLIPOP][RRO-Layers] XenonHD-5.0.2 Beta5 (Feb. 6th 2015)
Some developers prefer that questions remain separate from their main development thread to help keep things organized. Placing your question within this thread will increase its chances of being answered by a member of the community or by the developer.
Before posting, please use the forum search and read through the discussion thread for [ROM][LOLLIPOP][RRO-Layers] XenonHD-5.0.2 Beta5 (Feb. 6th 2015). If you can't find an answer, post it here, being sure to give as much information as possible (firmware version, steps to reproduce, logcat if available) so that you can get help.
Thanks for understanding and for helping to keep XDA neat and tidy!

zenon hd t mobile note 4
I wanted to let you guys know that I was trying tether on your ROM and it was not making an internet connection.
Sucks because this is the only Lollipop rom worth flashing.

aesthetics72 said:
I wanted to let you guys know that I was trying tether on your ROM and it was not making an internet connection.
Sucks because this is the only Lollipop rom worth flashing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should be fixed in next release.

i got n910w8 does this lolipop versiob works ???

zgigi666999 said:
i got n910w8 does this lolipop versiob works ???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it does work.... Im on Rogers Wireless & works just fine... Only thing I didnt like is with the camera in where it stores the pics.. I've tried changing from I terns to external but nothing happened... Also other than no pen action... Other than that it's fast, solid & very smooth

Can I flash this rom on the note 4 (910f?)

[email protected] said:
Yes it does work.... Im on Rogers Wireless & works just fine... Only thing I didnt like is with the camera in where it stores the pics.. I've tried changing from I terns to external but nothing happened... Also other than no pen action... Other than that it's fast, solid & very smooth
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does anyone knows if this rom can be flashed on the note 4 (910f)?

Frequent network diaconnect
I have been using this rom for around a day and overall smooth. But I am losing network connectivity frequently (every hour or so for 5 mins) and unable to make/receive calls during that period. Anybody else having this issue? This is for T-Mobile Note 4, 3-12 build.
Also Google Play Services seems to awake all the time. Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, but I have searched and didn't find soluction.

5.1
any word on Android 5 .1 for this rom

When it's ready it is ready never ask for etas

your first posts, and you not only ask the same question twice.

From the Moderator
To all in this forum......... Post Respectfully or DO NOT POST.
To the New Guy posting, you need to read rules, and follow them. There is an etiquette to posting
1. Do not make requests for update to a ROM unless you are the one making that ROM..... people make the Custom ROM for their pleasure and learning experience, not to satisfy anyone's personal need in XDA.
2. When unsure about something SEARCH 1st.
3. When posting be kind, civil and Respectful.
4. Stay on topic
Following these basic guidelines will help you improve your experience in XDA. If you post a question for help someone will most likely help........ that is what XDA is about....... helping each other to improve our Android/phone experience
Welcome to XDA...........

oka1 said:
To all in this forum......... Post Respectfully or DO NOT POST.
To the New Guy posting, you need to read rules, and follow them. There is an etiquette to posting
1. Do not make requests for update to a ROM unless you are the one making that ROM..... people make the Custom ROM for their pleasure and learning experience, not to satisfy anyone's personal need in XDA.
2. When unsure about something SEARCH 1st.
3. When posting be kind, civil and Respectful.
4. Stay on topic
Following these basic guidelines will help you improve your experience in XDA. If you post a question for help someone will most likely help........ that is what XDA is about....... helping each other to improve our Android/phone experience
Welcome to XDA...........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moderator, Devs should also be respectful. From oka1 ~~~ good point Back to the topic at hand ----- thank you

ejdavis said:
Moderator, Devs should also be respectful. They are appreciated but users don't need be talked to like they are beggers . the one guy was just asking if something was possible and got flipped on. Some people just afraid to speak out against things like this, but not me. I'm respectful to all but some devs and moderators need check themselves. I don't bite my tongue !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Understdable, but he was not just asking a question, he was asking basically for an eta on 5.1 & you know that is frowned upon. Users also need to practice manners, etiquette, & troubleshoot issues on their own. It is not the Dev's job to be here at all times leading these guys by the hand. A dev is simply sharing his work, if a user doesn't like it or feel it is updated fast enough than that user should simply move on. To me, a user asking for an ETA is extremely rude.

ejdavis said:
Moderator, Devs should also be respectful. From oka1 ~~~ good point Back to the topic at hand ----- thank you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you.

when in doubt refer to video!

hey it's the new guy again the noob the scrub lol,I have a question.I see under the download thread that your latest version of this ROM is February 20th 2015,that is the rom version I'm running.is there a newer version out that I'm missing,and no I'm not asking for a ETA.JUST ASKING IF IM UP TO DATE,Thanks so much love your work and love the rom

choppy video
Video is choppy is some instances. Facebook video is choppy, in web page video is choppy. YouTube is good. Thank you for you hard work, it really feels much smoother and quicker than a stock.

Awesome ROM!
I searched for it in the thread and nothing came up so I just want to confirm - are all S-pen functionality retained? And if I wanted to go back to stock firmware, is there anything special I should know?

Location services issues
Hi, I loved this rom because it's smooth, stable and the battery life it's insane. I have a problem though when trying to use applications that require using GPS, for example, I downloaded a weather app and for some reason it can't find my location. I activated location services as battery saver on settings. Any tip to fix this? Thank you!