I installed the N beta and have to say it was not working for me as I had a few bugs with it. There is a way to easily revert back to MM.
Boot into TWRP.
Go to advanced wipe and select everything including system. (This will delete everything including os from your phone)
Reboot and go into twrp again.
Flash 3.2.8 and SuperSu (optional)
Thats it. No need for any special build as OP said.
Thx for that Info. Have you been on F2fs or on ext4?
In my case I guess i can´t got beta 8 installed and twrp ask for pin did you think if i wipe data and flash 3.2.6 i manage to revert?
Blubber120 said:
Thx for that Info. Have you been on F2fs or on ext4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i was on ext4. to get on f2fs you have to hard reset your device after flashing beta.
Crash said:
In my case I guess i can´t got beta 8 installed and twrp ask for pin did you think if i wipe data and flash 3.2.6 i manage to revert?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you have enabled pin on bootup. You can try disabling it and then you should be able to get to recovery.
Thx. I am afraid, if on f2fs, it wouldnt be that easy, but good to know that it works if we stayed on ext4
Blubber120 said:
Thx. I am afraid, if on f2fs, it wouldnt be that easy, but good to know that it works if we stayed on ext4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can clean reflash the open beta 8 instead of 3.2.8 which would take you back to ext4 then you can flash 3.2.8.
what is the file system by default in op3 and will installing open beta 8 change file system to f2fs or to ext4?? thanks
Ext4 is default. Whether ob8 changes it or not, i got no aim.
bonham1988 said:
I installed the N beta and have to say it was not working for me as I had a few bugs with it. There is a way to easily revert back to MM.
Boot into TWRP.
Go to advanced wipe and select everything including system. (This will delete everything including os from your phone)
Reboot and go into twrp again.
Flash 3.2.8 and SuperSu (optional)
Thats it. No need for any special build as OP said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for sharing :good:
Very useful info.
Correct me if I am wrong, but this method to revert back to 3.2.8 will only work only if you have flashed open beta 8 with official twrp as the partition will remain to EXT4.
If you have flashed the update through stock or modded twrp recovery then your system partition will become F2FS so this method to revert back to 3.2.8 will not work as it need EXT4 system partition.
daninantro said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but this method to revert back to 3.2.8 will only work only if you have flashed open beta 8 with official twrp as the partition will remain to EXT4.
If you have flashed the update through stock or modded twrp recovery then your system partition will become F2FS so this method to revert back to 3.2.8 will not work as it need EXT4 system partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on the latest twrp by eng.stk, twrp-3.0.2-1.28
bonham1988 said:
I'm on the latest twrp by eng.stk, twrp-3.0.2-1.28
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I am guessing your system partition is ext4 and f2fs , right? Coz, after a clean flash the system will become f2fs partition (thats what I read)
EDIT: Oh, You need to do hard reset for f2fs..
Also, did you read another thread? the users who did a remote session with OP said that u need some certificate file to downgrade to official OTA. something related to encryption
daninantro said:
So I am guessing your system partition is ext4 and f2fs , right? Coz, after a clean flash the system will become f2fs partition (thats what I read)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it remains on ext4 even after a clean flash. You have do a hard reset to change it to f2fs.
I wonder what happens if file system is changed to f2fs. Should we change the partition to ext4 in twrp before installing OOS 3.2.8?
bonham1988 said:
I installed the N beta and have to say it was not working for me as I had a few bugs with it. There is a way to easily revert back to MM.
Boot into TWRP.
Go to advanced wipe and select everything including system. (This will delete everything including os from your phone)
Reboot and go into twrp again.
Flash 3.2.8 and SuperSu (optional)
Thats it. No need for any special build as OP said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buddy,
"wipe everything", that includes internal storage.. I read that it's not a good ideea to wipe internal storage.
But, thanks for info.
When you say wipe everything do you also mean internal storage? I really don't want to wipe that if it isn't absolutely necessary.
I am on Arter's CM13 Rom with modified kernel and with cache, system and data, all on f2fs.
What all do i have to keep on f2fs and what on ext4 to install Beta8.
After that i can follow all the steps with modified recovery, right? Or do i have to flash 3.5.5 or Beta7 first?
GaugeX said:
I am on Arter's CM13 Rom with modified kernel and with cache, system and data, all on f2fs.
What all do i have to keep on f2fs and what on ext4 to install Beta8.
After that i can follow all the steps with modified recovery, right? Or do i have to flash 3.5.5 or Beta7 first?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know that the OP3T only uses F2FS for the DATA partition.
All other partitions are EXT4.
So I guess they will probably keep it that way on Nougat.
The beta 8 kernel might actually support F2FS for the other partitions, but without the source code I think you can only try.
Personally I am running Nougat Beta 8 as mentioned with DATA only on F2FS.
it might be a silly question, but now reading a lot about ext4 and F2FS everything I am totally messed up. Below are the confusions/queries-
1. How can I come to know I am on which files system, ext4 or f2fs ? (if I have twrp installed)
2. can it be changed from on to other, if yes, how?
3. Two latest builds - stock 3.2.8 and beta 8 are on ext4 and f2fs respectively, is it correct?
4. If I am on beta8 (flashed via modded twrp), how can I downgrade to stock 3.2.8 ?
Related
TWRP 3.0.1-0 with "All-F2FS" support
I have modified the standard TWRP recovery to work with F2FS partitions.
This is different from the previous recoveries that i published.
This is for "All-F2FS" that mean that /system, /cache and /data are formatted with F2FS.
Keep in mind that this can work only with a compatible kernel.
What is F2FS?
F2FS (Flash-Friendly File System) is a flash file system created by Kim Jaegeuk at Samsung for the Linux operating system kernel. The motive for F2FS was to build a file system that from the start takes into account the characteristics of NAND flash memory-based storage devices (such as solid-state disks, eMMC, and SD cards), which are widely used in computer systems ranging from mobile devices to servers.
Download:
Zeus-Kernel.zip (CM12.1) - Here
Zeus-Kernel-MM.zip ( MM ) - Here
recovery-sprout-F2FS-All.img - Here
TWRP 3.0.1-0 Latest - Here
Changelogs:
-29/10/15: Initial Release
-02/04/15 : TWRP 3.0.1-0 Release
To switch your /system, /cache and /data partitions to F2FS follow instructions:
You need:
-Two files you can download above.
-A Android One (Sprout4) device obviously.
-Patience and Time.
Steps:
Flash this recovery with Fastboot (Maybe Flashify, Your wish)
Reboot in new recovery
Backup your /system , /data
(a) Go to Wipe, then Advanced Wipe, Select /System.
(b) Click on "Repair or Change File System"
(c) Click on "Change File System" option
(d) Select F2FS then Swipe to Change.
Repeat steps (a) to (d) with /data and /cache as you did with /system.
Now come back to main screen and go to "Settings"
Select "Use rm -rf instead of formatting."
Go to Restore menu and restore your previously backed up data.
Now Flash the Kernel zip provided above.
Reboot.
Done.
It's easier than it seems.
To restore partitions to stock:
Backup /system and /data
Change File System to EXT4.
Go to Restore menu and restore /system and /data again.
XDA:DevDB Information
[RECOVERY][All-F2FS] TWRP 3.0.1-0 with All-F2FS support, Tool/Utility for the OEM Cross Device Development
Contributors
Swapnil Solanki
Source Code: https://github.com/TeamWin
Version Information
Status: Stable
Current Stable Version: 3.0.1-0
Stable Release Date: 2016-04-02
Created 2015-10-30
Last Updated 2016-04-02
Reserved
Reserved
Yay......
It's here..
Thanks sir...
Thanks I got it resolved..
In the Meantime I'll keep mashing Thanks button...
Could you make a flashable zip for the recovery? Thanks!
vjtigas said:
Could you make a flashable zip for the recovery? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure I'll make it soon.
Keep mashing thanks button
Regards.
so this change our system ext4 to f2fs?
my question
if i flash stock or custom rom (Kk,L,M) still on f2fs or back to ext4?
f2fs have great performance i think..
edit : i used sprout8,does it wipe my data/media storage?
Minions_Army said:
so this change our system ext4 to f2fs?
my question
if i flash stock or custom rom (Kk,L,M) still on f2fs or back to ext4?
f2fs have great performance i think..
edit : i used sprout8,does it wipe my data/media storage?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This doesn't change it. It just gives support for it.
No. (Misunderstood your question.)
He said it's for sprout4, but I think it don't wipe that.
vjtigas said:
This doesn't change it. It just gives support for it.
I don't think so.
He said it's or sprout4, but I think don't it wipes that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wait for Op explain this
:cheers
hi i am using my sd card as adapted internal storage on android m. will this recovery detect any zip placed on this card? if no how to push the zip to my phone
vjtigas said:
Could you make a flashable zip for the recovery? Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I made a flashable zip
https://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=24052804347850387
---------- Post added at 10:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 AM ----------
austinpinto said:
hi i am using my sd card as adapted internal storage on android m. will this recovery detect any zip placed on this card? if no how to push the zip to my phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No recovery is made to detect card formatted as Internal Storage as it encrypts it. To flash zip, you can put it in /data/media folder or OEM folder or simply use adb sideload from PC
Minions_Army said:
so this change our system ext4 to f2fs?
my question
if i flash stock or custom rom (Kk,L,M) still on f2fs or back to ext4?
f2fs have great performance i think..
edit : i used sprout8,does it wipe my data/media storage?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it'll allow you to change the filesystems to F2FS.
It should still be F2FS after flashing KK ROMs. But LP and MM ROMs include an EXT4 image in their zips, so flashing MM or LP ROMs will convert the system partition to EXT4. Data and cache will stay as EXT4.
Formatting data always wipe /data/media. Wiping data with sprout8 recovery keeps /data/media, but as OP says that this is for sprout 4, it'll either not work with sprout8 (not sure) or wipe /data/media if you wipe /data.
hp5942 said:
Well I made a flashable zip
https://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=24052804347850387
---------- Post added at 10:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 AM ----------
No recovery is made to detect card formatted as Internal Storage as it encrypts it. To flash zip, you can put it in /data/media folder or OEM folder or simply use adb sideload from PC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have the drivers for the phone but when i do adb sideload on pc when phone is in this recovery nothing hapends.
are there any other drivers that i must install?
i installed the google usb driver from google
austinpinto said:
i have the drivers for the phone but when i do adb sideload on pc when phone is in this recovery nothing hapends.
are there any other drivers that i must install?
i installed the google usb driver from google
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try reinstalling driver while device is in recovery. I had to install it twice on Win10
Hope that helps
I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. After I converted to f2fs, TWRP straight up refused to mount /system, /data and /cache.
I had to convert it back to ext4 before TWRP would mount them. Can anybody help me out?
I'm using cm13 beta2 having 3.10.92 Zeus kernel n 2.8.7.0 twrp recovery so do I need to change kernel after chnging system file to f2fs ...?
harsh. said:
I'm using cm13 beta2 having 3.10.92 Zeus kernel n 2.8.7.0 twrp recovery so do I need to change kernel after chnging system file to f2fs ...?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Zeus is the only kernel for sprout that supports f2fs. Your safest bet would be to install the latest Zeus(4.5) kernel.
If I flash the flashable zip uploaded by @hp5942, then, will the /system, /cache & /data to f2fs?
krittin98 said:
If I flash the flashable zip uploaded by @hp5942, then, will the /system, /cache & /data to f2fs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you'll have to do that yourself manually. Recovery is flashed to support mounting of F2FS. Follow instructions given at the beginning of thread and don't forget to flash Zeus kernel given at beginning of thread (mm of lollipop specific depending on your rom). Happy Flashing
I'm unable to take backup as not enough space can I flash system ROM n gapps from SD card after F2FS?
Sent from my Micromax AQ4501 using Tapatalk
After installing custom recovery and rooting my (OP3T) in DiskInfo (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.kuder.diskinfo) I noticed that the file-system for System is ext4 (same for Cache), but at the same time Data (userdata) is still in f2fs (see the print screen)?
During the TWRP installation and root I did not format or re-flashed the ROM (I am still on OxygenOS 3.5.3. as it was after OTA update from OxygenOS 3.5.3.).
So I am thinking its either the custom recovery installation that caused file-system change or it is so by default.
Could you please check your OP3T and see what DiskInfo (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.kuder.diskinfo) reports in regard of file-system.
jemeljsh said:
After installing custom recovery and rooting my (OP3T) in DiskInfo (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.kuder.diskinfo) I noticed that the file-system for System is ext4 (same for Cache), but at the same time Data (userdata) is still in f2fs (see the print screen)?
During the TWRP installation and root I did not format or re-flashed the ROM (I am still on OxygenOS 3.5.3. as it was after OTA update from OxygenOS 3.5.3.).
So I am thinking its either the custom recovery installation that caused file-system change or it is so by default.
Could you please check your OP3T and see what DiskInfo (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=me.kuder.diskinfo) reports in regard of file-system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pure stock updated to latest, just had the device a few hours and love it.
LMcR92 said:
Pure stock updated to latest, just had the device a few hours and love it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything's the same, except in your case we cant see "Internal Storage - System" and its file-system. Probably because yours is without root.
jemeljsh said:
Seems the same, except in your case we cant see Internal Storage - System. Probably because yours is without root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm planning on getting root and kernel on ASAP.
LMcR92 said:
I'm planning on getting root and kernel on ASAP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any news?
Userdata (the main storage) is f2fs, modem and sde23 are vfat, rest is ext4. From what I know, this is supposed to be so.
I have TWRP installed and phone is rooted.
Mine are all EXT4.
Running stock 3.5.3
TWRP, Rooted, running tyranus kernel, and xposed.
Everything seems perfect so I'm not sure why mines different.
I'll back everything up and format data in TWRP
OK I'm good now
Does anyone have encountered this issue?? It's really damn annoying... Thanks for any help
I did have it and it is very annoying, I installed TWRP Blue Spark and it solved the issue. I will look for it and if I find it I will share it with you.
What version of TWRP are you using? 3.0.3-1, 3.0.4 and 3.0.4-1 have all been working well so far.
Anova's Origin said:
What version of TWRP are you using? 3.0.3-1, 3.0.4 and 3.0.4-1 have all been working well so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This happens if yu are f2fs formatted and swipe in allow for modifications when booting in §TWRP. If you don't swipe, you can still flash roms. Not sure what's changing anyway...I formatted ext4 and have no issues right now.
iam using f2fs with latest twrp (3.0.4.x) and no such issues.
but i was losing apps randomly after booting into recovery, on older TWRP versions.
Installed TWRP 3.0.4 and everything seems back to normal. Thanks for ur help guys.
Now my next problem is 4g reception in France..
Cheers thanks a lot
PS: how do I know if I'm using f2fs or ext4?
I believe there was an option somewhere in TWRP to view all your partitions and their file formats. By default, only the data partition is formatted in f2fs, everything else should be ext4 (and maybe fat?)
Edit: If you select Wipe in TWRP, then advanced wipe, and select the Data partition, you can click partition options to see what the file format is (don't swipe right if you don't want to wipe it). Aside from data, every other partition should be ext4 by default.
There's also apps like disk info that can tell you the file system used as well.
piffa_ said:
Installed TWRP 3.0.4 and everything seems back to normal. Thanks for ur help guys.
Now my next problem is 4g reception in France..
Cheers thanks a lot
PS: how do I know if I'm using f2fs or ext4?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is a app on playstore disk info
and there is new twrp avaliable 3.0.4.1
I've installed lineage but now I wanna roll back to elite,can I just flash it?
zezo07 said:
I've installed lineage but now I wanna roll back to elite,can I just flash it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(For elite Rom_hasanmirza)
1-Restore the backup file (If you have a backup of elite ROM)*needs change file system Data partition
Or
2-Flash twrp elite (last version)
*Wip all partitions (no SDcard)
*Change FileSystem of DATA Partition only to f2fs & FORMAT Data otherwise phone wont boot
mount data while installing rom, format it again and check filesystem from change fs option,if its f2fs, dont change it again
*flash EliteRom
https://forum.xda-developers.com/honor-5c/development/elite-rom-nougat-builds-cxxbxxx-t3635413
Hi,
I made this guideline for those who want to convert filesystem from EXT3 / EXT4 to F2FS on lavendar, for amazing speed & performance.
I already had MIUI EU beta working on my phone.
Note: Internal data storage will be wiped. Make sure to have a backup.
Steps:
1. Install Orange Fox Recovery (latest one)
2. Reboot to recovery
3. Go to Manage Partition
4. Select "Cache" and click orange tick button, then choose F2FS as the file
system and proceed.
5. Again, select "Data" and click orange tick button, then choose F2FS as the file
system and proceed.
6. Reboot to Recovery again.
7. Install a custom kernel which support F2FS (i.e Evira)
8. Install Universal F2FS support patch file. (otherwise causing boot loop)
9. Reboot
Enjoy the speed.>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi! Filesystem F2FS keeps always even if you make full wipes + format data? For example, if i do the process but later i want to change my device's ROM, system will still have F2FS after wipes and format data? Sorry i've never changed my device's Kernel so i don't know if the system keep the new kernel (and the F2FS support patch file mentioned in this post) after a wipe + format data or they have to be re-flashed. Thank you in advance.
Did as instructed. got a boot loop : (
Are you sure that fstab flags are properly set? I don't see 'nofail' option or maybe there's some other option that substitutes?
I use miui eu 9.8.9
I reformatted back to EXT4 and it boots again.
If you are not so sure (neither am I, I will go research mount command options) then I recommend 3 separate zips
One that's F2FS only for cache and data
One that's all EXT4 for cache and data in case someone needed to revert without reflashing rom
And one that's F2FS cache and EXT4 data because migrating data partition can be a lengthy process for some people. But formatting cache is always easy.
Plast0000 said:
Did as instructed. got a boot loop : (
Are you sure that fstab flags are properly set? I don't see 'nofail' option or maybe there's some other option that substitutes?
I use miui eu 9.8.9
I reformatted back to EXT4 and it boots again.
If you are not so sure (neither am I, I will go research mount command options) then I recommend 3 separate zips
One that's F2FS only for cache and data
One that's all EXT4 for cache and data in case someone needed to revert without reflashing rom
And one that's F2FS cache and EXT4 data because migrating data partition can be a lengthy process for some people. But formatting cache is always easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had the same problem, to solve it do the partitions process, flash first evira, reboot to recovery again and flash the patch. It worked for me and booted succesfully into the rom. I use xiaomi eu 9.8.9 too.
jalzate94 said:
I had the same problem, to solve it do the partitions process, flash first evira, reboot to recovery again and flash the patch. It worked for me and booted succesfully into the rom. I use xiaomi eu 9.8.9 too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I do it like this?
1- change partition fs
2- reboot into recovery
3- flash evira
4- reboot into recovery
5- flash fstab.zip
6- reboot into rom
Is there actually any benefit at all in using F2FS on Lavender since the flash type is not one of ones supported by F2FS?
Sent from my Note 5 / 5 Plus using XDA Labs
gardiol said:
Is there actually any benefit at all in using F2FS on Lavender since the flash type is not one of ones supported by F2FS?
Sent from my Note 5 / 5 Plus using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean when you say that its flash type is not supported by F2FS?
also see these posts:
https://forums.oneplus.com/threads/...o-perfomance-after-formatting-to-f2fs.441177/
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2697069
Plast0000 said:
What do you mean when you say that its flash type is not supported by F2FS?
also see these posts:
https://forums.oneplus.com/threads/...o-perfomance-after-formatting-to-f2fs.441177/
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2697069
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, F2FS works on NAND flash memories.... Lavender ilis NOT a NAND flash, so there is no advantage in using it. At least this is the rationale if I am not wrong.
As speed goes, F2FS is no benefit as your link said, but also for the wear and tear there is not much benefit
Sent from my Note 5 / 5 Plus using XDA Labs
gardiol said:
See, F2FS works on NAND flash memories.... Lavender ilis NOT a NAND flash, so there is no advantage in using it. At least this is the rationale if I am not wrong.
As speed goes, F2FS is no benefit as your link said, but also for the wear and tear there is not much benefit
Sent from my Note 5 / 5 Plus using XDA Labs
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm? according to mi website and wikipedia it uses eMMC 5.1 which is a NAND storage. why wouldn't it work?
As for my link they all agree that F2FS is a bit slower for read but hellalot faster for write. overall gain is considerable.
Plast0000 said:
Hmm? according to mi website and wikipedia it uses eMMC 5.1 which is a NAND storage. why wouldn't it work?
As for my link they all agree that F2FS is a bit slower for read but hellalot faster for write. overall gain is considerable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... Well, my info is wrong then... In this case it would be useful
Sent from my Note 5 / 5 Plus using XDA Labs
White_Lion said:
Hi! Filesystem F2FS keeps always even if you make full wipes + format data? For example, if i do the process but later i want to change my device's ROM, system will still have F2FS after wipes and format data? Sorry i've never changed my device's Kernel so i don't know if the system keep the new kernel (and the F2FS support patch file mentioned in this post) after a wipe + format data or they have to be re-flashed. Thank you in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the data partition will be converted back to ext4 everytime you do "format data".
Not formatting your data could keep the f2fs status, but it's risky to not formatting data when changing ROM in lavender due to it's strict encryption issue.
Plast0000 said:
Did as instructed. got a boot loop : (
Are you sure that fstab flags are properly set? I don't see 'nofail' option or maybe there's some other option that substitutes?
I use miui eu 9.8.9
I reformatted back to EXT4 and it boots again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Miui.eu ROMs doesn't fully support F2FS. The rom does, but the kernel doesn't.
You need to make sure both the ROM and kernel has F2FS support.
if one of them don't, you'll get bootloop.
Plast0000 said:
So I do it like this?
1- change partition fs
2- reboot into recovery
3- flash evira
4- reboot into recovery
5- flash fstab.zip
6- reboot into rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been on F2FS since.. April I think, and I've installed and tried so many roms without any problem.
here's what I normally do and it works all the time:
- Make sure data & cache are ext4
- format data
- reboot recovery,
- wipe cache, dalvik, system, data, internal,
- flash firmware
- flash ROM
- flash gapps (optional)
- flash magisk
- flash kernel that has f2fs support (optional, if the rom's kernel doesn't support F2FS)
- reboot system
————————————————————————
it's necessary to install the rom in EXT4 because automatic encryption doesn't work in f2fs partition (I think... based on my experience). granted, you can do the encryption manually from settings, but it's require to have 80%++ battery and the more stuff you have in your internal, the longer it'd take to manually encrypt the device. automatic encryption is just easier to do. You can leave your internal decrypted as well, but you won't be able to use your fingerprint or any screen lock methods. That's just how redmi 7 family works.
————————————————————————
- once you get into system, reboot to recovery once again
- convert cache & data to f2fs
- flash magisk
- flash universal f2fs patch
- reboot
now your /data and /cache are in f2fs.
If you're already on a rom and kernel that support f2fs, you can just do the later half of this tutorial without the need to reinstall rom and everything, but you'd lose all your data. good luck!
What's the benefit of changing cache into F2FS?
begging
Seeking flash tutorial videos
Thanks
thx for guide.
Which custom rom that support f2fs?