Database Develop

So camera noise is normal. Can it be fixed or is it a hardware problem?

Isn't this the big Question?
Never have I been so fuzzy about choosing a phone. I have got hold of LG G2 (which got warm, produces antutu scores of louzy 20 000, has aggressive noise reduction on photos and a screen that did not survive a 20 cm droptest after 24 hours - now in repair) and currently a 48 hour old Z1 that produces a little less noise and does not get overly hot dueing captures after the last update, but eats away battery when capturing photos. These new devices. I was actually seriously considering requesting my old xperia S back!
After googling for 12 hours I could not find answers to the following question, so I sent the questions to Sony and are waiting for an answer:
1. Is it a sensor\hardware or a software issue that produces this amount of grain and noize, particulary in the 50% peripheral part of the picture?
I used the perfectly evely lit computer screen matrix to test before and after the update. There is an actual improvement. A macro shot before the update showed marked noize in the periphery. It still does after the latest update, but it is far from as bad! It is still worse than note 3 i suspect.
This makes me inclined to say that the lenses (under macro shots at least) has peripheral distortion. The best optics one always gets when having as few lenses as possible in the objective. I guess there are quite a few in z1 compared to the competition?
2. Some rumour say that different batches of phones are of different quality. Needless to say: this has been the case on some previous massproduced gadgeds, and different fabrics might have different production quality. I have read that low quality items often are sold slightly cheaper on Ebay. So; anyone got some more "evidence" to prove such a suspicion for Z1? If so: what batches should we try to avoid?

krimskram said:
I think this is the big question. Never have I been so fuzzy about choosing a phone. I have got hold of LG G2 (which got warm, produces antutu scores of louzy 20 000, has aggressive noise reduction on photos and a screen that did not survive a 20 cm droptest after 24 hours - now in repair) and currently a 48 hour old Z1 that produces a little less noize after the last update, but eats away battery when capturing photos and occasionally gets so warm that it shuts down the camera app. Crikey! These new devices. I was actually seriously considering requesting my old xperia S back!
After googling for 12 hours I could not find answers to the following, so I sent the questions to Sony and are waiting for an answer:
1. Is it a sensor\hardware or a software issue that produces this amount of grain and noize, particulary in the 50% peripheral part of the picture?
Without uploading any picture: the computer screen matrix is evenly lit and "perfect". A macro shot before the update showed marked noize in the periphery. It still does after the latest update, but it is far from as good. This makes me inclined to say that the lenses (under macro shots at least) has peripheral distortion.
2. Some rumour say that different batches of phones are of different quality. Needless to say: this has been the case on some previous massproduced gadgeds, and different fabrics might have different production quality. I have read that low quality items often are sold slightly cheaper on Ebay. So; anyone got some more "evidence" to prove such a suspicion for Z1? If so: what batches should we try to avoid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I have used a g2 and the z1 quite a bit. The Z1 seems to have better software. I don't care about benchmarks as they all cheat anyway. But the better software definitely makes the z1 feel snappier. I haven't noticed any major difference in apps though. The lg launcher is slow.
The camera on the g2 is OK. It is decent all round and in good light can be stunning. It takes consistently decent shots. The camera on the z1 feels totally broken even with the latest software update. I suspect there must be a hardware fault. I have yet to take a single picture I am happy with in any light conditions and it is useless in low light.
Does anyone else think we have a hardware issue here with the Z1?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

The Jones said:
So I have used a g2 and the z1 quite a bit. The Z1 seems to have better software. I don't care about benchmarks as they all cheat anyway. But the better software definitely makes the z1 feel snappier. I haven't noticed any major difference in apps though. The lg launcher is slow.
The camera on the g2 is OK. It is decent all round and in good light can be stunning. It takes consistently decent shots. The camera on the z1 feels totally broken even with the latest software update. I suspect there must be a hardware fault. I have yet to take a single picture I am happy with in any light conditions and it is useless in low light.
Does anyone else think we have a hardware issue here with the Z1?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well not mine, I also used G2 and now z1. My z1 takes better photo in low light.
Maybe its your z1 only...
Sent from my C6903 using xda app-developers app

marc_ecko28 said:
Well not mine, I also used G2 and now z1. My z1 takes better photo in low light.
Maybe its your z1 only...
Sent from my C6903 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe. I do wonder if I have a faulty unit. It is so poor and shots have no detail, a ton of noise, poor focus.
Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk

That's a real issue of viewpoint. In and by itself the Z1 camera isn't "bad" and the 245 firmware update fixed many issues, such as the purple fringing and the oversharpening. It doesn't however, bring the camera into "amazing" land.
Sony's much-touted DxOMark scores aren't all that cut out. While video pulls the device in second place, after the Nokia 808 and before the iPhone 5s, if you look at images alone it's 6th place, after Nokia, iPhone, and the Samsung Galaxy S4. In terms of clarity, if you neglect autofocus, the iPhone 5, non-S, beats it as well.
That's still great for a phone camera, it's just sad that the much hyped November model, running on excellent hardware, gets beat by the June model from Samsung. If you do a lot of video in good light and shoot only manual then you have a decent camera phone. If you want to go out and replace your point and shoot with this thing on a field trip or vacation, there are six or seven older phones that beat the Z1 in picture quality.
Now, I believe that 99% of those issues are software issues. Technically Sony's approach is sound. The BIONZ processor is one of the best IP on the market in this bracket, the Exmor RS backlit sensor used in the Z1 is also used in the iPhone 5s and RX100, and a powerhouse. So that stuff is there. The mini G-lens has great spatial properties and is one of the best when it comes to luminance. What doesn't seem to work so well is all in the software portion of the equation.
I am not giving up on Sony. I have great hardware, I hope firm- and software will catch up.

Software is something they will change, even though Sony have a bad track record in Software you should have seen the Xperia S, I had it for a few days before I had a refund, software was unbearable with the random reboots. There getting better every time.

I was not very happy with camera until last week but I received latest update and I can't be happier
Sent from my C6903 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I'm still amazed that these threads are popping up. It's like I'm using a completely different product from the rest of you, I swear.
Sure, low-light images can be a little noisy and grainy but guess what; so are ones from my point-and-shoot - there are very few stand-alone cameras in this bracket (around the £150 mark) that are entirely noise free in low light. The noise is far from "terrible" especially with the most recent firmware, and the up-side to it all is that I'm able to take picture in far lower lighting than I've even been able to on a phone before.
Here's the thing: Superior Auto, though now very much improved, still uses an ISO that borders on the insane. In low light, just put the phone on manual (I'd recommend 4:3) and snap away. Less noise and very detailed results. Indeed, the latest firmware means that both 20mp and 8mp manual shots are very respectable in low light.
I was walking around the National Railway Museum in York yesterday, taking pictures with both the QX10 and the Z1 - in many instances, the Z1 was sharper or, at least, just as sharp. And the lighting was poor.
I also did a side-by-side with my old C905 the other day. Until this point, I would've (still) put it up against any smartphone camera on the market (to me, it was Sony's last "great" camera phone). The Z1's 8mp shots were consistently better, with the exception of the Zenon Flash shot.
In response to the OP, however; the G-lens is highly convex. This results in some barreling in the corners of the image and means that the centre will always be ever-so-slightly sharper than the rest of the image (the effect is small, however). Nothing can be done about this - many point and shoot cameras and DSLR's are the same. I've had quite outstanding results from mine.

Sounds like your camera might be better than mine. Maybe what we should to is to compare shots where everyone takes a photo of the same item? I cannot think of anything easier an more available perfectly lit surface than a computer or notepad screen completley white on max luminance.
Anyway, even though my camera has some obvious distortion, it is nothing more or less than what is revealed in the numerous reviews. However - some morons have posted, what seems to be, og DSLR photos on the xperia blog an some other places claiming it to be produced with a Z1. I guess some people live to annoy other people.
Regarding the last awesome cameraphone from Sony I will give xperia S my vote. It did get a lot of pepper but it shined after several updates, and after I realized there was a prefabric screenprotector that were scratched, not my screen. Not using 2 screen protectors did help. The camera on X S excelled i macro shots and were great allround. For most users sony HOWEVER decided to kill the phone with the last update making it slow and less responsive. It lost the premium feel. An obvious sales trix. Sony replied to my question about the slow XS that "It is to be expected as your phone is too slow to effextuvley handle our new update". Well well.
Xperia S had a troublesome birth and death. For most of the time it shined. I hope this is what we are experiencing with the Z1.

krimskram said:
Sounds like your camera might be better than mine. Maybe what we should to is to compare shots where everyone takes a photo of the same item? I cannot think of anything easier an more available perfectly lit surface than a computer or notepad screen completley white on max luminance.
Anyway, even though my camera has some obvious distortion, it is nothing more or less than what is revealed in the numerous reviews. However - some morons have posted, what seems to be, og DSLR photos on the xperia blog an some other places claiming it to be produced with a Z1. I guess some people live to annoy other people.
Regarding the last awesome cameraphone from Sony I will give xperia S my vote. It did get a lot of pepper but it shined after several updates, and after I realized there was a prefabric screenprotector that were scratched, not my screen. Not using 2 screen protectors did help. The camera on X S excelled i macro shots and were great allround. For most users sony HOWEVER decided to kill the phone with the last update making it slow and less responsive. It lost the premium feel. An obvious sales trix. Sony replied to my question about the slow XS that "It is to be expected as your phone is too slow to effextuvley handle our new update". Well well.
Xperia S had a troublesome birth and death. For most of the time it shined. I hope this is what we are experiencing with the Z1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had an Xperia S and, yes, it did take very detailed shots. It's white balance wasn't always the best, however, and it was fairly terrible in poor lighting. I high contrast shots, though, the C905 would give better results - I did quite a bit of testing between the two
For examples of my work with the Z1, please look here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157635983420745/

jluster said:
That's a real issue of viewpoint. In and by itself the Z1 camera isn't "bad" and the 245 firmware update fixed many issues, such as the purple fringing and the oversharpening. It doesn't however, bring the camera into "amazing" land.
Sony's much-touted DxOMark scores aren't all that cut out. While video pulls the device in second place, after the Nokia 808 and before the iPhone 5s, if you look at images alone it's 6th place, after Nokia, iPhone, and the Samsung Galaxy S4. In terms of clarity, if you neglect autofocus, the iPhone 5, non-S, beats it as well.
That's still great for a phone camera, it's just sad that the much hyped November model, running on excellent hardware, gets beat by the June model from Samsung. If you do a lot of video in good light and shoot only manual then you have a decent camera phone. If you want to go out and replace your point and shoot with this thing on a field trip or vacation, there are six or seven older phones that beat the Z1 in picture quality.
Now, I believe that 99% of those issues are software issues. Technically Sony's approach is sound. The BIONZ processor is one of the best IP on the market in this bracket, the Exmor RS backlit sensor used in the Z1 is also used in the iPhone 5s and RX100, and a powerhouse. So that stuff is there. The mini G-lens has great spatial properties and is one of the best when it comes to luminance. What doesn't seem to work so well is all in the software portion of the equation.
I am not giving up on Sony. I have great hardware, I hope firm- and software will catch up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that is really annoying thing with Sony, they obviously haven't learnt anything from Xperia Z launch, release substandard firmware in the final release to public that everyone uses to review, therefore gets reviews that are not as good as they could have been, which will loose them sales. If they want to reach their goal of Number 2 Android selling phone. They have to wake up, trawl through the main forums, and review sites and make sure the phone they release is top notch, and make tiny tweaks later on.
Really why can't Sony get their sensor to work as well as Apple? Surely they should be able to get the most out of their sensors than anyone else?
The only substandard part of the hardware that I have noticed moving to Sony is the accelerometer and GPS accuracy, the rest has been robust and fixed with firmware updates.
If you want to get the best from the camera, you must run in manual mode. Because the software makes some pretty bad decisions a lot of the time.

Timaustin2000 said:
I had an Xperia S and, yes, it did take very detailed shots. It's white balance wasn't always the best, however, and it was fairly terrible in poor lighting. I high contrast shots, though, the C905 would give better results - I did quite a bit of testing between the two
For examples of my work with the Z1, please look here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157635983420745/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nice shots! I've been scratching my head though with one of the shots you had, the one of the food / burger stall.
It seemed REALLY sharp and detailed so I looked in the exif data and saw it was ISO 64 / 100! Shutter speed was just a mere 1/8s so I'm wondering how did that happen with that particular low-light scenario?
The other pictures I can relate to
Here are a couple shots I took (though not as good as yours I am thinking)
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6YHwWcrqzNhbEtLUGFKNmk1SVU&usp=sharing
All taken in Manual Mode too (plant / garden shots are taken in 153 firmware)

bloodfire1004 said:
Nice shots! I've been scratching my head though with one of the shots you had, the one of the food / burger stall.
It seemed REALLY sharp and detailed so I looked in the exif data and saw it was ISO 64 / 100! Shutter speed was just a mere 1/8s so I'm wondering how did that happen with that particular low-light scenario?
The other pictures I can relate to
Here are a couple shots I took (though not as good as yours I am thinking)
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B6YHwWcrqzNhbEtLUGFKNmk1SVU&usp=sharing
All taken in Manual Mode too (plant / garden shots are taken in 153 firmware)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The burger stall image was actually taken with Superior Auto (I know!). It decided to throw the phone into "Spotlight" shooting mode and that was the result. A very good result.
By the way, I really like your Garden party image. Well exposed, nicely detailed.
I completely agree with the comments, above, about Sony missing a trick by releasing hardware with incomplete software. There was a very distinct feeling of the camera firmware being unfinished on release. It is now firing on all cylinders but the review damage has been done.
You can see the difference when you look at GSM Arena's initial review of the phone and their following camera comparisons, post update. One is "disappointed", the others are full of praise.
And Sony have no-one to blame but themselves, for that.

Timaustin2000 said:
The burger stall image was actually taken with Superior Auto (I know!). It decided to throw the phone into "Spotlight" shooting mode and that was the result. A very good result.
By the way, I really like your Garden party image. Well exposed, nicely detailed.
I completely agree with the comments, above, about Sony missing a trick by releasing hardware with incomplete software. There was a very distinct feeling of the camera firmware being unfinished on release. It is now firing on all cylinders but the review damage has been done.
You can see the difference when you look at GSM Arena's initial review of the phone and their following camera comparisons, post update. One is "disappointed", the others are full of praise.
And Sony have no-one to blame but themselves, for that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, basically everyone so far think it is a software issue.
I took some afternoon shots driving in 80 . The camera performs - now- without noise and got a crisp picture at what must be a really low shutterspeed. WTF?!
A situation Im never likøey to ever use the camera in again. Sigh, at drive by shooting it excels.
At indoor shots, it is agamble. Even with thenew firmware. It i proves markedly by manual exposure.
A total conclusion: it would be interrestimg having raw file possibilties. The camera is markedly better after the firmware update, and having the features in the camera button I am very pleased, however, where Im likley to use the camera most , indoors, it really needs an overhaul. I dont aleays have the time to enter manual mode! It is annoying that it defaults to full auto. Let me diecide!

Any other opinions
krimskram said:
So, basically everyone so far think it is a software issue.
I took some afternoon shots driving in 80 . The camera performs - now- without noise and got a crisp picture at what must be a really low shutterspeed. WTF?!
A situation Im never likøey to ever use the camera in again. Sigh, at drive by shooting it excels.
At indoor shots, it is agamble. Even with thenew firmware. It i proves markedly by manual exposure.
A total conclusion: it would be interrestimg having raw file possibilties. The camera is markedly better after the firmware update, and having the features in the camera button I am very pleased, however, where Im likley to use the camera most , indoors, it really needs an overhaul. I dont aleays have the time to enter manual mode! It is annoying that it defaults to full auto. Let me diecide!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, any other opinions?

krimskram said:
So, any other opinions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One: you can set your camera to launch in Manual from the launcher dock without having to re-set it. Just add a "shortcut" to your homescreen, select camera and select manual. Pop that in the docked section at the bottom of the screen and you'll always have quick access to it.
Just a shame they don't give you the option to launch camera in manual by long-pressing the camera button.
Oh, and to the fella above who says that there are "6 other models" from earlier in the year that will beat the XZ1 in good light? With respect, I'm going to disagree: There's no way that an S4, One or G2 can beat the Z1 in good light - and I'm not sure I could point to any other Android that does. (note: the iPhone 5 isn't as good but the 5s comes darned close,... in good light. Thought it over-saturates light a *****).
The S4 over-saturates, the G2 has even worse post-processing than Sony (it's artifact central on a G2 - FAR too much artificial sharpening) and the One? Well, it's the One, isn't it? Yuck. And the Z1 has better detail and dynamic range than all of the above in good light - it has been remarked on numerous times in a good many reviews.
The only place it really falls down is exposure - sometimes it blows out light objects if left to it's own devices. But you have an exposure toggle to fix that so problem solved.
In all honesty, I don't think I've ever been as happy with a phone camera. In any light.

[Q] Z3C Camera... a dealbreaker?

I am in the market for a new phone. I use an old Samsung S3 now. The Z3Compact seems perfect, but my only concern is the camera. I use my phone as my main camera, but general consensus seems to be that it is not as good as the camera on the S5 of iPhone6. I like to shoot directly in HDR mode, but that seems to be a problem on the Z3. Without rooting, could I install the Google Camera apk and if so, would the Z3C be able to use the HDR mode from the Google Camera app?
Or should I change my plans and go for the S5?

The Google camera app on the Play Store installs fine. I'll post some comparison shots later this morning.
My sister has an S3 and we were taking comparison photos in her kitchen yesterday - obviously the z3c is a significant step up in quality from the S3, though I realize that's not really your question.

Thanks! And it is no problem to use the HDR setting in the Google Camera app? On my Nexus 7 the HDR is greyed-out in the Google Camera App, it will nog show up on every device i read in the Google Q&A

Google camera app permits HDR on the z3c.
Sony camera app also has HDR toggle in manual mode, but is grayed out if resolution is set higher than 8mp.
I know of several reviews claiming that Sony's Superior Auto mode isn't HDR, but since that mode captures at 8mp I'm wondering if it doesn't use it's internal HDR algorithm in auto mode, despite what I've seen the reviewers claim. I can't really tell the difference between Superior Auto and Manual 8mp HDR photos taken with the Sony camera app.
---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 PM ----------
Ok, here are some comparison pictures of the Z3C's camera, using both the Sony Camera App, and the Google Camera App from the Play store.
I have uploaded the pictures to an imgur album, and added descriptions for the six photos. Just for clarity's sake, I should mention I am not really into photography that much, and my skills are probably not up to par for composing or technique, so take that into account.
There are six pictures (they're labeled appropriately in the album, but I'm reproducing them here so people can decide if they're interested before viewing them, since the images are large):
1) Sony App, Superior Auto setting (8mp), No Flash
2) Sony App, Superior Auto setting (8mp), Flash
3) Sony App, Manual Setting at 20mp, No Flash
4) Sony App, Manual Setting at 20mp, Flash
5) Google App, HDR setting at 20mp, No Flash
6) Google App, HDR setting at 20mp, Flash
Here is the link to the imgur album:
http://imgur.com/a/KjL4D#0
Hope this is helpful.

I just did a quick Google cam vs stock cam test myself. The stock cam in auto mode definitely takes pics that are a little on the cold side. In manual mode though, it was more accurate. The google cam seemed more or less the same. I'm sticking with the stock Sony cam.

DrPanz said:
I am in the market for a new phone. I use an old Samsung S3 now. The Z3Compact seems perfect, but my only concern is the camera. I use my phone as my main camera, but general consensus seems to be that it is not as good as the camera on the S5 of iPhone6. I like to shoot directly in HDR mode, but that seems to be a problem on the Z3. Without rooting, could I install the Google Camera apk and if so, would the Z3C be able to use the HDR mode from the Google Camera app?
Or should I change my plans and go for the S5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People shouldn't act as if the camera is bad, it's not bad at all. Just in some situations it under performs against iOS and the S5 for example, but in other situations it' better.
Check out the topic I made for people with doubts, you can see samples there:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-compact/themes-apps/post-pictures-xperia-z3-compact-t2889119

Thank you. Not quite made up my mind yet. I read a lot of horrorstories on broken glass... maybe the S5 proves out to be a more secure option. Good camera, waterresistant and plastic - which in my S1 and S3 has survived a lot of drops.

I think it comes down to how important the form factor and potential battery life advantages are over other stuff.
There are choices with slightly better cameras and certainly ones less vulnerable to accidental damage.
For me, coming off Nexus 5 and Note 3, I am really prioritizing battery longevity, pocket friendliness and better one-handed comfort and use. So far I'm pleased but it's still early days so the jury's still out for me.
Be sure you can live with TouchWiz and other Samsung bloat (bugs with erroneous Knox warnings on the AT&T Note 3 model nearly drove me crazy). It really ruined my Note 3 experience for me and is what drove me to the Nexus 5, which in turn was somewhat spoiled by awful battery life despite rooting and aggressively optimizing (to the point of limiting usefulness) power consumption. Never got more than 8-10 realistic hours on the 5 no matter what I tried.

Form factor is great. As is battery life. That's one side. Other side is the camera, and how it stands up to a drop from the pocket. That last bit worries me.

Well I haven't had the Sony long enough to try and convince you the advantages outweigh the drawbacks - I may drop mine and destroy it this afternoon!
But I'm not sure any unprotected high end smartphone stands all that good a chance of surviving any particular dropping incident, and adding a protective case to a smaller device still nets you a slightly larger small device that is still a a lot smaller profile than a bigger device with a protective case. Just my. 02 worth.

It's not only dropping, but also spontanious cracks when carrying the Z3C in te front pocket. of your jeans. Been reading a lot of reports on that the last days.

Most of those reports are duplicates. Only a few confirmed cases.
Sent from my D5803 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

As far as I'm concerned, every other phone has more so-called "dealbreakers" than the Z3C. This phone has so many plusses that outweigh any possible negatives that people need to imagine faults and come up with ridiculous issues not to get it, and that's their loss.

In this German test of the Z3C the back panel cracked spontaniously:
http://www.areamobile.de/handys/4275-sony-xperia-z3-compact/testbericht
Sony states it was an isolated incident. Yeah...

DrPanz said:
I am in the market for a new phone. I use an old Samsung S3 now. The Z3Compact seems perfect, but my only concern is the camera. I use my phone as my main camera, but general consensus seems to be that it is not as good as the camera on the S5 of iPhone6. I like to shoot directly in HDR mode, but that seems to be a problem on the Z3. Without rooting, could I install the Google Camera apk and if so, would the Z3C be able to use the HDR mode from the Google Camera app?
Or should I change my plans and go for the S5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like to take nature photos, and if you are planning to watch the photos on something larger than the phone display, the Z3/compact is a bad choice. In this post is a comparison with the galaxy note 3
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=55980596&postcount=127
Now, this is viewing the pixels 1:1, which probably most people won't bother with. But even when scaling down this particular photo to about 2MP, the compression artifacts can still be noticed, and the GN3 photo is the better one! And it definitely proves that in certain cases, like photos with much detail, there are much better cameras out there.
But in other cases the Z3 camera produces beautiful images (if you don't look too closely), and it is great for low light photos. But for anything with trees or grass - definitely no!

radicans said:
If you like to take nature photos, and if you are planning to watch the photos on something larger than the phone display, the Z3/compact is a bad choice. In this post is a comparison with the galaxy note 3
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=55980596&postcount=127
Now, this is viewing the pixels 1:1, which probably most people won't bother with. But even when scaling down this particular photo to about 2MP, the compression artifacts can still be noticed, and the GN3 photo is the better one! And it definitely proves that in certain cases, like photos with much detail, there are much better cameras out there.
But in other cases the Z3 camera produces beautiful images (if you don't look too closely), and it is great for low light photos. But for anything with trees or grass - definitely no!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. the camera performance issues, the fact that HDR is a bit of a hustle to reach, and the reports of cracking displays have made me nervous enough to put my plans for buying the Z3C on hold, and maybe buy the S5. Not as pretty as the Z3C, but it may prove out to be a safe choice for now.

DrPanz said:
Thanks. the camera performance issues, the fact that HDR is a bit of a hustle to reach, and the reports of cracking displays have made me nervous enough to put my plans for buying the Z3C on hold, and maybe buy the S5. Not as pretty as the Z3C, but it may prove out to be a safe choice for now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HDR is easy, you just have to set it to 8MP or less, then HDR switch becomes available. And with the Z3 there is no point whatsoever to shoot in anything larger than 8MP anyway!
But yeah, if I would have known about the camera compression/oversharpening issues I would have settled for another phone. And speaking of compression, the funny thing is that in the comparison photos i posted, the file size of the inferior Z3 photo is about twice as large over the galaxy note photo!! Nice one Sony..

What would have been the smartphone you would have chosen in stead?

Well, there are not many options, if you want to keep pocketability, form factor and dedicated camera button.
I have some nice results with Pro Capture, but compared to stock camera app with a little touch of post processing (Snapseed e.g.), the camera is capable of some nice shots. But it's nothing THAT special really.
Still, beats my Nexus5 in terms of focus speed, which is kinda important for me, so...
But, YMMV.

DrPanz said:
What would have been the smartphone you would have chosen in stead?
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Click to collapse
Well, I really want the "small" form factor of Z3c, but without compromises. So that leaves most phones out I guess. Samsung galaxy alpha would have been nice, if it wasn't for the battery time and the big price tag. Probably would have waited with the purchase another 6 months or so, and see what the market looked like at that point.
I know I have ranted lots on the camera, but all things considered, it's still a great phone!

Is the Z3 camera as good as they say?

I am looking for an excellent camera. The Xperia Z3 sounds good. I do see the Z5 has a little better resolution, but I do need to root and fix up the software to run Xposed, so Z3 sounds better.
Is the Z3 camera actually excellent?

Xperia series of camera are good in my oppinion, a lot better compared to iPhones due to the number of features added.
However i suggest not getting a Z3 Compact (Or any xperia compact) as they are quite dodgy (hardware problems all the time)
But in conclusion the Z3 camera is good, but if you wanted 20MP in superior auto you need to root and install xposed anyway.

interestor said:
I am looking for an excellent camera. The Xperia Z3 sounds good. I do see the Z5 has a little better resolution, but I do need to root and fix up the software to run Xposed, so Z3 sounds better.
Is the Z3 camera actually excellent?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can tell you one thing for sure excellent it is not. on the contrary, far from that, average at best I'd say. The stock camera app is very slow compare to other flagship smartphones which were available at the time of the release of the z3. The auto focus is also pretty slow and quite bad. Moreover, the front-facing camera is also average, but I haven't seen any smartphone excel at that area. In addition, I don't really know if its a factor to you or not, but the flash is by far THE WORST flash I have ever seen a smartphone to be equipped with - a single LED flash which can with very little power to it.
The only positive thing I can say about it, that if you go manual in the stock app you can get some very good shots with it, but I doubt anyone does that with a smartphone on a daily basis.
Don't get me wrong, its a decent phone for it's price. However, the sole reason I sticked to Sony is because they are the only company to release a below 5" flagship speced smartphone in 2014.

nzzane said:
Xperia series of camera are good in my oppinion, a lot better compared to iPhones due to the number of features added.
However i suggest not getting a Z3 Compact (Or any xperia compact) as they are quite dodgy (hardware problems all the time)
But in conclusion the Z3 camera is good, but if you wanted 20MP in superior auto you need to root and install xposed anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn! I am leaning toward getting one mainly because of small size (and lanyard mount and button). What are the common problems with the compact?
What, an xposed module lets you run the camera at higher performance? What's its name? what's it do?

Sydrox said:
I can tell you one thing for sure excellent it is not. on the contrary, far from that, average at best I'd say. The stock camera app is very slow compare to other flagship smartphones which were available at the time of the release of the z3. The auto focus is also pretty slow and quite bad. Moreover, the front-facing camera is also average, but I haven't seen any smartphone excel at that area. In addition, I don't really know if its a factor to you or not, but the flash is by far THE WORST flash I have ever seen a smartphone to be equipped with - a single LED flash which can with very little power to it.
The only positive thing I can say about it, that if you go manual in the stock app you can get some very good shots with it, but I doubt anyone does that with a smartphone on a daily basis.
Don't get me wrong, its a decent phone for it's price. However, the sole reason I sticked to Sony is because they are the only company to release a flagship speced smartphone in 2014.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Yeah, I have read about lag, and focus hunting. Good to mention the flash.
I am interested in the manual controls, but also shooting from the hip.
Now that it is a coupla years old, price is getting better, making me think about redefining excellent.

interestor said:
Damn! I am leaning toward getting one mainly because of small size (and lanyard mount and button). What are the common problems with the compact?
What, an xposed module lets you run the camera at higher performance? What's its name? what's it do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Commonly they will have water proofing failures, or bad batteries, but some people are lucky and get away with no problems.
Yeah i believe its called 20MP xperia or something similar and there is also this modded camera which adds many funtions to camera like more ISO options, exposure, shutter speed etc.

I have one z3c and the camera it's ok much better than most of phones. I have xposed as well and camera fx, i don't have troubles yet so far so good.

Nope, it's pretty bad and certainly a big disappointment.
In good light and with a bit of luck it can take great pictures, but most of the time it's just frustrating (mainly because you know that it is capable when it feels like it). In poor light or with the flash it's just a terrible smudgy mess, my old Galaxy S3 is considerably better. After 6 months I got sick of it and bought a Galaxy S5 which blows it away all the time.

In all reality though, if you wanted to take good photos, use a proper camera, phone cameras are only point and shoot, and are pretty crap compared to what a good camera can do

P20 Pro thinking of buying

Ok ever since Ive seen this phone I've been smitten with it., but the price has scared me off a bit...it does seem to have some down to a relatively reasonable price and its got me thinking again. The Camera is what intrigues me the most, as with most people I would assume.
Here is what gives me pause though...from a lot of accounts it doesn't do very well taking pictures of people and just about every real review Ive sen says the camera oversharpens a lot, in any situation. My dilemma is I take a lot of pictures of my kids, as a lot of people do, so crappy pictures of people is sort of a dealbreaker for a phone. The low light performance seems amazing and teh 3x zoom I could definitely get some use out of, but the beauty mode and sharpening is stopping me from buying this phone.
Are there any ROMs that can be flashed that addressed this? Is this something someone could find in the software of the phone and disable? VIA a rom again obviously because it cannot be disabled in stock form it appears.

I find with people oh and dogs it can be a a little slow I am thinking of jumping ship to the note 9 as that camera is lightening fast plus you can add a memory card
When you come to scenary I have to say wow
The attached pic is unedited
I have to say however it's an amazing device it's fast and fluid operating system wise i have always used iPhones and am happy to have moved to android just wish camera person wise was more polished
Sent from my CLT-L29 using XDA Premium HD app

Yeah that's great, but as you probably know people and dogs rarely stand still..babies even worse. If it's a little slow that's a definitely no, I got a note 8 and even that is a bit slow at times and I miss the shot Im trying to get.
My other options are a p2xl or a Oneplus 6, or keep the Note 8 but the GF needs a new phone

loki993 said:
Yeah that's great, but as you probably know people and dogs rarely stand still..babies even worse. If it's a little slow that's a definitely no, I got a note 8 and even that is a bit slow at times and I miss the shot Im trying to get.
My other options are a p2xl or a Oneplus 6, or keep the Note 8 but the GF needs a new phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the problem people move and the AI modes say keep still even once shot
I played with the note 9 last night and it was lightening fast
Sent from my CLT-L29 using XDA Premium HD app

mancuk29 said:
I find with people oh and dogs it can be a a little slow I am thinking of jumping ship to the note 9 as that camera is lightening fast plus you can add a memory card
When you come to scenary I have to say wow
The attached pic is unedited
I have to say however it's an amazing device it's fast and fluid operating system wise i have always used iPhones and am happy to have moved to android just wish camera person wise was more polished
Sent from my CLT-L29 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Slow to focus or slow shutter speed? Anyway I don't find it slow by any means, one of the fastest to both focus and fire of a shot to be honest

I've found the rear cameras work really well - it is fast to focus, the night mode and B&W are really good. Turn off the AI as I think it's not very good. For just a point and shoot, I think the Pixel 2 will give you better results. If you are willing to put in a bit of work into your shots, I think the P20 Pro will give you excellent results. Now, if you are talking about the front camera, it is not very good (IMO). So, if you use the front camera quite a bit, I might suggest other options for you.
From what I hear, the video is not very good either (I don't shoot video, so I cannot comment first hand). I've read that the rear camera processing software was done by Leica and the front camera and video was done by Huawei - that may explain the difference in quality between those.
Overall, I find the hardware excellent but am not so fond of EMUI (esp. the memory management, notifications and AOD).

I take loads of photos of my kids, who never stop moving. Ever. Most of the time it takes amazing shots, but sometimes they're a bit blurry.
The over softening of faces has been reduced on recent updates, and if you're in portrait mode you can dial it down with a slider (it's called beauty level).
You'll struggle with ROMs now though - Huawei have stopped giving bootloader unlock codes. This means you won't be able to flash anything, and even if you could it has completely stifled development. Personally I wouldn't buy it now because of this (you also won't be able to root). But the photos really are incredible so if you can put up with stock software and no root then get it.

rajeshr said:
I've found the rear cameras work really well - it is fast to focus, the night mode and B&W are really good. Turn off the AI as I think it's not very good. For just a point and shoot, I think the Pixel 2 will give you better results. If you are willing to put in a bit of work into your shots, I think the P20 Pro will give you excellent results. Now, if you are talking about the front camera, it is not very good (IMO). So, if you use the front camera quite a bit, I might suggest other options for you.
From what I hear, the video is not very good either (I don't shoot video, so I cannot comment first hand). I've read that the rear camera processing software was done by Leica and the front camera and video was done by Huawei - that may explain the difference in quality between those.
Overall, I find the hardware excellent but am not so fond of EMUI (esp. the memory management, notifications and AOD).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah honestly I don't use a front camera a lot and even when I do the quality doesn't really matter all that much.
I do do a lot of point and shoot, the quick snap of a kid doing something . But I do like having the extra functionality if I really wanted to take the time to get a really good shot. That's just not always practical.
krs360 said:
I take loads of photos of my kids, who never stop moving. Ever. Most of the time it takes amazing shots, but sometimes they're a bit blurry.
The over softening of faces has been reduced on recent updates, and if you're in portrait mode you can dial it down with a slider (it's called beauty level).
You'll struggle with ROMs now though - Huawei have stopped giving bootloader unlock codes. This means you won't be able to flash anything, and even if you could it has completely stifled development. Personally I wouldn't buy it now because of this (you also won't be able to root). But the photos really are incredible so if you can put up with stock software and no root then get it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, it seems that people were trying to get Huawei to allow people to unlock again. Eh may it would be better to just wait until that happens.

Ok so a few things.
The device as a non rooted device is as good as they come.
Design
Battery
Camera
Performance
Storage
System
Can't fault any of it.
My wife has the phone as stock and she loves it.
I have the phone with the bootloader unlocked, debranded and rooted and I love it.
I can do a lot more than my wife can with it due to the flexibility of being able to remove bloat and install things like lineage and mods like swap torpedo for speed.
Personally if I was unable to unlock the bootloader, there is no way I would contemplate buying this phone, not for its price or for it's hindered lack of unlocking options.
My advice, you cannot unlock the bootloader any more.
Pixel 2 XL It's just dropped by £100
OnePlus 6T when it arrives
Pixel 3 when it arrives.
Not this phone, unless you are going to never hope to root it.

No one of the things I would need would be to get rid of EMUI because people don't seem to like it and from what I hear I wouldn't like it either. I would by buying it with the intention of swapping something more stock ish on it, so if I can't do that its really a non starter.
I'm really looking at a 2xl probably from swappa there are a bunch of refurbs or buybacks on there for a pretty decent price and there is the 200 off deal from Fi too.
I am considering the 6, yeah the 6t will be out but not until November and even then what can they do to change it? wireless charging is almost a sure bet, but not sure what else. Maybe a bit of work on that notch but that doesn't bother me too much. My note 8 has wireless charging and I never use it, so I can do without that.
The 3XL was what I wanted originally but the more leaks I see of the phone the more I don't like it. Again I'm not a notch hater like some people seem to be but it is rather large on the 3xl it seems and with the chin on the bottom it makes the screen look oddly placed...aesthetic issues only though.
The big thing though is it looks like it's only going to have 4 gigs of ram and a battery that's not any larger than its predecessor and for a phone that's likely going to cost around a thousand dollars that's just not acceptable. Now if they come out and say we could only fit this battery and 4 gigs of ram in it because our sensor is bigger than the P20 pros, or something else crazy like that, they may have my attention, but until I hear something like that Im not so interested. Even then, Huawei managed to fit a 4k battery and 6 gigs of ram and 2 more cameras in their phone in addition to the big one...so even that would be a weak excuse, but I could settle for that.

Loving my pro. Coming from Samsung for over ten years, I really like emui. Very easy to use. Very customizable. Thumbs up from me.
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

An alternative to XZ1C

I'm thinking about replacing my XZ1C with something/anything else.
The camera is horrible (for a somewhat premium phone), and I absolutely hate what Sony did with unlocking the bootloader, which makes everything a pain in the arse.
Could anyone possibly recommend me something that is 1) similarly small, 2) more or less equally powerful (I don't play games or watch Youtube so I don't need a hardware monster), and 3) with a little better camera?

If the size of the phone is important to you, I guess you're out of luck... At least I haven't found alternatives of similar size that would be better.

Sony have cornered the market with compact phones and there is very little that comes close.
I know the bootloader thing is a pain in the neck, but have a look about, there are very few manufacturers that let you 'open up' their phones these days, Sony aren't the only guilty party in locking down the proprietary software. I think Xperiafix is a small price to pay.
I haven't had any issues with the camera, although it is particularly slow to focus, compared to all the Xperia's I've had before. There's a helpful guide here.
Perhaps hold out for the XZ4 compact...
Edit: My personal favorite compact was the Z3c. Powerful enough to run games and stream, good battery and good camera. You can pick them up for > $100

Well, seeing as the camera hardware is identical, I don't think that would help me in any way.
I know I cannot expect much from a phone, but damn the pictures that come out of mine are ****! Horrible blurry mess. It's not a problem with settings either, because the photos look identically crappy whether I use auto or manual mode.
Xperifix at least lets me fix the green photos "feature", but it barely ever gets updated and still installs old TWRP and Magisk (ok, that can be updated).
Basically, this whole DRM crap leaves me majorly unimpressed from user experience.
Friend of mine has phone with Zeiss lens, and despite not being a whole lot more expensive, the camera difference is night and day. Bah.
After another search on GSMArena it looks like the situation is completely hopeless though. The only phone that seems to come close in dimensions is Galaxy A3, 2017 model. And that'll never get newer Android anyway, and LineageOS doesn't support it. Nor does it support XZs...
But I just have to have a small phone. Ffs.

Oh and don't even get me started on the selfie camera. That's flat out disaster.

WalrusInAnus said:
Well, seeing as the camera hardware is identical, I don't think that would help me in any way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's Sony stock cam that's driving you nuts and you already have a rooted phone @russel5 has got a proper Gcam port working on his AospExtendedRom, including HDR.

It's not the stock cam as an app, it's what the hardware is (not) capable of that does my head in.
No app can fix that
I tried his rom in the early days of experimenting with the phone, and it behaved all kinds of crazy. There are barely ever any updates too.

...and I can't even update the Phone to Pie, because Xperifix doesn't work with that, and apparently not even the author knows if he will be able to get around the changes.

I've also been keeping an eye out for a replacement as my XZ1 Compact hasn't felt like a worthy successor for my Z3 Compact.
The XZ4 Compact looks promising, but recent news leaks have been hinting that the entire compact line will be discontinued.
The only alternative at this moment that I would consider is the Pixel 3. It's only about 3mm wider, but feels just as small width wise due to being thinner and having rounded corners. The height is definitely a major step up, but I'm willing to give it a try for the much better camera. I'd also welcome the return of double tap to wake, which Sony silently decided to remove.

WalrusInAnus said:
...and I can't even update the Phone to Pie, because Xperifix doesn't work with that, and apparently not even the author knows if he will be able to get around the changes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There have been some comments around the forums that with Pie, you don't need a DRM fix - camera works with unlocked bootloader. I can't vouch for this personally, but I've read multiple posts claiming that.
EDIT: here is one such post: https://forum.xda-developers.com/xp...-to-backup-t3795510/post78346086#post78346086

WalrusInAnus said:
...and I can't even update the Phone to Pie, because Xperifix doesn't work with that, and apparently not even the author knows if he will be able to get around the changes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The first build of Pie works without DRM fix, so grab a copy of 47.2.A.0.306 while you can via Xperiafirm.
Seems like Sony forgot to include DRM check in the first build, but the 3 builds since then give you green camera on unlocked bootloader.

Try Aquos R2 Compact from Sharp, provided that you know where to buy it (￣∇￣), which I don't.

Unfortunately, i am searching for the same answer.
In my case i have been swinging between Xperia compact phones and Galaxy S series phones (not the plus ones), although are big for my hand.
As it seems, i read in a article recently that Sony is going to halt production of compact phones.

Xz2 Compact or Pixel 2 ( not XL)

If your looking for a compact Xperia, the SO-05D, Xperia SX is by far the most compact. It's my favorite Xperia, I've owned 2.
The camera of Xz1c is terrible. It doesnt seem to be the software, it's the lens, the lens on my unit is not properly clear, it's like foggy, no matter how much I try to polish it. The images are mushy with dull colors. My full sized Xz1 takes great pics (I have both phones). I owned 4 different z series phones since 2013, Xz1 is the worst cam for me. I think iPhone 5c is compact and great camera. Z5c also great.

Dean F said:
The images are mushy with dull colors. My full sized Xz1 takes great pics (I have both phones).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange. The back cameras are supposed to be identical, lens too. Numerous reviews also claim identical photo quality. Maybe it's a physical defect on your specific xz1c unit.
This being said, while the cam is very average, it is hardly poor. It runs circles around the Z5c and Xc cameras, though it's definitely inferior to the xz2c.

landsome said:
This being said, while the cam is very average, it is hardly poor. It runs circles around the Z5c and Xc cameras, though it's definitely inferior to the xz2c.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the main problem with the camera is lack of OIS and too much processing and noise reduction which makes the pictures lose detail.
I wonder what they made different with xz2 as the image sensor should be identical to xz1/c...

landsome said:
Strange. The back cameras are supposed to be identical, lens too. Numerous reviews also claim identical photo quality. Maybe it's a physical defect on your specific xz1c unit.
This being said, while the cam is very average, it is hardly poor. It runs circles around the Z5c and Xc cameras, though it's definitely inferior to the xz2c.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe some of the camera parts are the same. I agree with u, many reviews simply said 'both xz1 and xz1c camera are the same'. But just looking at the phones - the lens are totally different physical design, in size, shape, and lens material. The XZ1 lens is harder and clearer, feels more like glass. The xz1c feels like it is plastic. Taping on the lens feels and sounds very different.
We'll have the agree to disagree about the z5c camera vs the xz1c. The Xc i didnt own (because its lower cpu), so i cant comment on its camera performance. In house I also have a normal size z5, which has an exceptional camera.
Let me clarify what I mean when I say a camera is good or bad. I mean that, in full daylight, taking a park or street scene - the image is razor sharp. In my experience, Z5, Z5c, Xz1 all take these razor sharp images. Xz1c, mush...

vofferz said:
I wonder what they made different with xz2 as the image sensor should be identical to xz1/c...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both phones. The xz1c has, in my view, a problem with exposure in daylight. Tpo much light. And it processes images in an unbalanced way, reducing noise AND detail too much if you pixel peep (the same problem that the z5c and Xc also have, too a larger extent in my view). The xz2c is better on both counts, and on low light as well. Otherwise, both have excellent color rendition.
I also have an OG pixel, which is still plenty fast, has great camera (very, very reliable) and in my view is better in hand than the Pixel 2. Still, battery is mediocre and, most importantly, it is too big. Nothing beats the xz1c in this respect.

With the XZ2c bumping up to a 5" screen, there's not a true Sony compact anymore. So now you have a lot more options - and a lot of great cameras - in the 5" - 5.5" screen range. Just compare battery life, waterproofing, or whatever matters to you most. Now that I can't get a great <5" phone, I'm looking at the Pixel 2, Oneplus 3, and the Fairphone 2. At least I can finally get OIS
https://www.gsmarena.com/results.ph...ected&sOSes=2&sOSversions=2900,2810,2800,2710