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Why doesn't the G1 have hardware graphics acceleration? Doesn't it have a GPU? Wouldn't this make scrolling smooth like the iPhone?
im note sure it only lists a cpu in the specs on the htc site
I think it does have a GPU but its pretty limited. I believe it supports the OpenGPL API? I could be wrong though... However yes, all smartphones should have a decent GPU really to help things along.
I'm eargerly awaiting the Sony Ericsson XPERIA3 ^_^
It does have hardware graphics acceleration. There is a demo game in the market called Neocore that demonstrates some of the possibilities.
If you don't want to install it, there is a youtube video here
I think the RAM is the major limiting factor, not the graphics. We used to have the same Graphics chip as the iphoney...but damn if the 3G-S didn't leapfrog us.
RAM is only one thing, the iPhone 3G S has a much better CPU too as its a nerfed version of their multi-core CPU coming out next year.
We should be seeing dual and quad core ARMs next year and a much better GPU. Fact is the iPhone's OS has been optimised heavily to run on its hardware, while Android is still not 100% tailored for the hardware its running on, instead it was designed to run on as many platforms and configurations as possible by stock.
I currently have a HTC Desire which I have had since it first come out and am in line for a new handset... I always get mine sim free or pay as you go.
Been looking a lot a lately of the Optimus 2x or Galaxy S2 in regards to gaming. Now, I know there are threads about both GPU's but.... which one is more powerful and will be best "future proofed"?.
Heard a lot of things on both handset forums saying that Tegra 2 is a year old, has 8 cores and the Galazy S2 is newer and only 4 cores.
So, as a potential buyer of either handset... am looking at the best gaming platform based on games.
At the moment, its a hard choice because I want to purchase the best fone I can at the moment...
Any thoughts on which platform will be better?, or.... get the support from developers?. At the moment NVIDIA have got the marketing right imho, but could the Galazy S2 overtake that and make "it" the most optimized platform for games on a Android device?.
A lot of questions, which I am unsure of the answers?.
Any thoughts?.
While i can't tell you which is the future proof, i think its worth remembering that nvidia is very old school in gaming and i am sure they are doing what they can to promote tegra as the ultimate mobile gaming platform and i am sure they know a few in the business.
Can non tegra phone play tegra games ?
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@iceman92
Yes.
But still i'd say tegra is more furute-proof cause the developers will focus on the more mainstream processor which will be tegra... only a suggestion.
With the future-proof part, I would say Tegra is the best to go with. Nvidia have alot of plans for releasing smartphone CPU's in the future, I mean, they are due to release a quad core CPU this summer. I've had my O2x for about 2 weeks now and I've had no problems gaming with it, smooth as silk. As long as you use Launcher Pro then you're fine
The Mali-400 in the SGS2 SoC is older than the Geforce ULP in the Tegra 2 I believe but the Mali should outperform Tegra 2 on paper. Currently, gaming on "superphones" is still murky. You have different approaches to how you make (e.g. Adreno and PowerVR parts are "tile-based") the chips work. Therefore some games will play better on some chips because they are optimized for a certain kind of graphics design which is good on certain kinds of GPU hardware.
So here's what you do. Focus on good "Families" of GPU. First we have Adreno found in Qualcomm Chips (Adreno 220 in the HTC Sensation slaps Geforce ULP hard). The Adreno 200 is in the Nexus One and several Android phones. It's a well known and widely used GPU in Android.
Next you have PowerVR by Imagination, a very proven family. The PowerVR SGX540 is found in the Nexus S and the Galaxy S i9000 class of phones (Very popular phone). So expect a lot of marketshare in that. PowerVR is also used in iPhones and iPads. So expect some advantages when an iPhone released game reaches an Android platform.
Next you have Geforce ULP in the Tegra 2 by NVidia. Geforce ULP has not had much time to shine HOWEVER Tegra Zone has demonstrated NVidia has been encouraging developers on the platform. NVidia has a good history with developer support on their desktop chips and it is quite evident that they are doing the same with their smartphones. However, Tegra 2 is only in two (three if you count g2x as separate from o2x) smartphones in the market so far.
From what I can see so far, the Adreno, PowerVR, and Geforce ULP are very relevant in the future of mobile gaming and will be for a long time. There's no chance in hell you can futureproof with any phone you buy now. On average, smartphone GPU performance appears to be breaking Moore's Law and is becoming well over 2x the performance year over year with no sign of slowing down. What you want is something that's on the market which you will be satisfied with now. That's all you can count on.
Thanks guys.. in the end i went for the 2X as i paid £278 for the handset with a trade in for my desire.
Am very happy with the fone at the moment but having a issue with the free Shrek Kart voucher as it seems the voucher may have been used with someone else, not too worry.
Haven't had chance with gaming on it but just hope that we get games that are optimised for tegra 2, rather than ports from another more powerful GPU?!.
Sent from my LG-P990 using XDA Premium App
Let me start off by saying that I know that all benchmarks should be taken with a grain of salt, and that Quadrant is a poor and outdated benchmark. But, that does not matter. I'm sure we've all ran at least one Quadrant before. Well, there is an issue with the planets test. The D3 only gets 12fps on it, and there is artifacting throughout the test.
It has been this way for every OMAP based Moto phone. The OG Droid, Droid 2, Droid 2 Global, Droid X, and so on. They ALL run the planets test at 12fps with the same exact artifacts. No matter the GPU or clock speed. I feel like I'm the only one who has noticed this. Go and perform a Quadrant on your D3 and observe the planet test. If you have any other phones, benchmark them too. Compare a D3, D2, and Inc.
The OMAP 4430 has the PowerVR SGX 540 gpu. This was the GPU in the previous gen Hummingbird. On the planets test, it would constantly be at the framerate cap of 56 with no artifacts. The Droid Incredible, even with the pathetic Adreno 200 GPU, would run the planets test well above 30fps. It is not an intense graphics test and nearly any mobile GPU can run it above 30fps.
The only Moto phones that run the planet test without issue are those with the Tegra 2. Keep in mind that Tegra 2 based devices all use nvidia's own proprietary drivers. Sure, the Droid 3 is qHD, and it won't score as well as a Galaxy s or Optimus 3D with the same GPU pushing less pixels. The X2 is also qHD and the Droid 3 typically gets a higher framerate on other GPU benchmarks-except for the planets test. In theory, the Droid 3 should score the same, if not, slightly better, on the planets test.
All of the evidence leads me to believe that it is an issue with Moto's drivers. It isn't TI, since the Optimus 3D has the exact same CPU, but runs the test without a hitch. Is anyone able to provide any insight on this, perhaps someone who can speak with someone at Moto that would know? Will this affect games, or other benchmarks? Can it be fixed in an update? Something is obviously not right here, and I'd like to find out why.
EDIT: I'm on my phone and I was in general when I hit new thread. I don't know how this ended up in development, but I apologize. Will a mod please move this?
Games and emulators on the Droid 3 don't have the FPS problem as compared to other devices. I think it's a coding issue in Quadrant, not a problem in the drivers. It would be like running 3DMark 2000 on today's hardware and having it crash out or run slower than a P3 with a 3DFX card (which it actually does in many cases).
elkay said:
Games and emulators on the Droid 3 don't have the FPS problem as compared to other devices. I think it's a coding issue in Quadrant, not a problem in the drivers. It would be like running 3DMark 2000 on today's hardware and having it crash out or run slower than a P3 with a 3DFX card (which it actually does in many cases).
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A coding issue IS possible, but if it was a coding issue, then how is it that only specific phones from one manufacturer with CPU's and GPU's from the same manufacturers are the only ones with issues? The only Moto phones that don't have the issue are those with the Tegra 2, which uses proprietary coding and drivers from NVIDIA. There are phones from other manufacturers with the same SoC, and very similar hardware otherwise, that don't have the issue. It seems extremely likely that it is an issue with Motorola's software and coding.
GoogleAndroid said:
A coding issue IS possible, but if it was a coding issue, then how is it that only specific phones from one manufacturer with CPU's and GPU's from the same manufacturers are the only ones with issues? The only Moto phones that don't have the issue are those with the Tegra 2, which uses proprietary coding and drivers from NVIDIA. There are phones from other manufacturers with the same SoC, and very similar hardware otherwise, that don't have the issue. It seems extremely likely that it is an issue with Motorola's software and coding.
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I'll respectfully disagree. If the same FPS problem exhibited itself in any games on the market, then I would lean toward agreeing with you. However, I have pretty much every emulator on the market and about 75-80 games on my phone, and not one has shown any performance problems and all outperform my original Droid X by a very noticeable margin.
Or perhaps it's both? Quadrant could use something in OpenGL that isn't supported very well by Motorola's drivers, and it could be a feature that isn't widely used in other apps, so it's why you're not seeing any issues in them.
Pokelover980 said:
Or perhaps it's both? Quadrant could use something in OpenGL that isn't supported very well by Motorola's drivers, and it could be a feature that isn't widely used in other apps, so it's why you're not seeing any issues in them.
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By all means, continue to investigate. I think the problem will end up lying in how Quadrant makes its OGL ES calls. The only one that would help right now is the developer of Quadrant, which if you can get to answer the question, would be great. Not stone hard fact, but a step toward solving this.
Quadrant is not optimised for dual core processors let alone any device that has recently come out in the last year including Tegra devices, the tests are not that complicated in the bench mark yet devices are scoring sub 30 fps values.
Use a different bench mark as Quad is old hat and in need of an update or 3.
-smc
I thought I should note that the PowerVR SGX 540 in our Droid 3's are not the same as the SGX 540 in Samsung's Hummingbird SOC. It's quite a bit faster!
The SGX 540 in the OMAP 4430 is clocked 100MHz higher and gets 4.8GFLOPS vs the Hummingbird's 3.2GFLOPS.
snowblind64 said:
I thought I should note that the PowerVR SGX 540 in our Droid 3's are not the same as the SGX 540 in Samsung's Hummingbird SOC. It's quite a bit faster!
The SGX 540 in the OMAP 4430 is clocked 100MHz higher and gets 4.8GFLOPS vs the Hummingbird's 3.2GFLOPS.
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Yes, but the higher resolution screen counterbalances that.
GoogleAndroid said:
Yes, but the higher resolution screen counterbalances that.
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Well, not quite. The screen resolution only increased by 35% while the GPU is 50% more powerful than the SGX 540 in the Hummingbird SOC. In theory the OMAP4 should still perform better than the Hummingbird even at the higher resolution.
I would have to say that Quadrant is at least partly responsible for the low FPS. It seems likely that Quadrant is using an odd method of method of rendering for the planets test that in combination with Motorola/OMAP drivers causes a massive performance drop. Fortunately this performance issue has not been seen in other apps/games.
My main reason for posting was just to point out that the SGX 540 in our D3's is much faster. I would hate to think our GPU is no better than the Galaxy S'
this is a problem with quadrant, all motorola devices(since the mb200 aka dext/cliq we have this issue, always got the same results in 2d test and the planet) give the same score in the tests. but the new sgx 540 for dual core have a dedicated gpu for 2d graphics, i spent 3 days searching about that. so, the problem is with the app, not the phone.
can somebody send me a benchmark from D3 of smartbench, Mandrobench, linpack, antutu and cfbench. im thinkin in getting one =p
Too many variables in synthetic tests to come to a conclusion with Quadrant. One parameter can be off and that will bias the weighted result. Speaking of weight, the dev still has yet to quantify the weighting in the app for each parameter.
D3 plays N64 and PSX games equal for most and better for some (if already 60fps, will inherently be equal) than the Tegra 2 devices I had or have now. In a way, the D3 is the device the Sony Play should have been (except the control pad is better than the keyboard, of course).
guidoido004 said:
can somebody send me a benchmark from D3 of smartbench, Mandrobench, linpack, antutu and cfbench. im thinkin in getting one =p
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On stock I got ~70mflops on average on multi-threaded Linpack test. With some of the modifications I can do with root, Antutu gets me 5112, and on stock I got somewhere around 4700 I believe. I don't have any of the other benchmarks you listed, so I couldn't tell you for them.
guidoido004 said:
this is a problem with quadrant, all motorola devices(since the mb200 aka dext/cliq we have this issue, always got the same results in 2d test and the planet) give the same score in the tests. but the new sgx 540 for dual core have a dedicated gpu for 2d graphics, i spent 3 days searching about that. so, the problem is with the app, not the phone.
can somebody send me a benchmark from D3 of smartbench, Mandrobench, linpack, antutu and cfbench. im thinkin in getting one =p
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Antutu- 4967
Smartbench 2010-1263, 2849
Smartbench 2011- 3612, 2586
Linpack- 42, 66
CF-Bench-9397, 2636, 5340
Quadrant- 2000-2500
I couldn't find Mandrobench.
hello guys..i heard that galaxy note and other samsung device are using an outdated GPU (Mali-400MP GPU)...so is it a little "fail" for our note to have an outdated GPU?plss give ur opinion.. thanks guys
..u can read the review about the GPU--> Here
It's so much faster than the sgx540 in the nexus it's ridiculous and since my choice was between those two I'm very happy with it.
Sent from my superior GT-N7000 using Tapatalk
Check out the real world performances. Mali 400 outclasses Adreno 220 easily.
The weakpoint of Mali is geometry performance, but it does not matter much with mobiles until now as mobile games are not geometry heavy.
On the other hand, the OpenGL ES 2.x performance and real world performance of Mali is excellent.
With the clock speed of exynos in Note which actually gives much better real world performance with Mali 400 than even SGS2, it runs circles around Adreno 220 powered devices like sensation and even SGX540 powered devices.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4686/samsung-galaxy-s-2-international-review-the-best-redefined/17
The above review is of SGS2. And mind you the performance of note is much better than SGS2. It is one of the most balanced GPUs on market with great gaming as well as multimedia performance (which actually matters more to someone like me.)
Funkym0nkey said:
Check out the real world performances. Mali 400 outclasses Adreno 220 easily.
The weakpoint of Mali is geometry performance, but it does not matter much with mobiles until now as mobile games are not geometry heavy.
On the other hand, the OpenGL ES 2.x performance and real world performance of Mali is excellent.
With the clock speed of exynos in Note which actually gives much better real world performance with Mali 400 than even SGS2, it runs circles around Adreno 220 powered devices like sensation and even SGX540 powered devices.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4686/samsung-galaxy-s-2-international-review-the-best-redefined/17
The above review is of SGS2. And mind you the performance of note is much better than SGS2. It is one of the most balanced GPUs on market with great gaming as well as multimedia performance (which actually matters more to someone like me.)
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thanks for this info sir
although mali has been here for a very long time, it was well ahead of its time. and it still is i guess
anjath said:
although mali has been here for a very long time, it was well ahead of its time. and it still is i guess
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Yeah well Scott Adams is wayyyyyyy past his heyday (heck, even being relevant).... haven't read him since 2007 or so, when he started dabbling in intelligent design woo and sexist claptrap...
for being a heavy mobile gamer
i can assure you that the mali 400 on the note does very well with the latest games (asphalt7, dead trigger to name a few) despite having to compute for a much higher resolution display than other phones...
and with a little overclocking (tegrak app or gl notecore kernel) gpu performance can get sky high.
best phone i ever got :victory:
GAME ON said:
hello guys..i heard that galaxy note and other samsung device are using an outdated GPU (Mali-400MP GPU)...so is it a little "fail" for our note to have an outdated GPU?plss give ur opinion.. thanks guys
..u can read the review about the GPU--> Here
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The note was released ten months ago but still its gpu is better than all the others except sgs3 and and maybe one x..
Btw do you even own a note?? Did you every notice any lag in any game??
Whiskeyjack4855 said:
The note was released ten months ago but still its gpu is better than all the others except sgs3 and and maybe one x..
Btw do you even own a note?? Did you every notice any lag in any game??
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The NOTE's and SGS3's GPU are the same.
However, the S3 is built on a smaller 32nm die-size, so it means it uses less space and less power for same performance. Samsung uses this advantage to clock the frequency much higher than the NOTE (which is built on a 45nm die).
Also, the S3 implements a new, updated driver for the gpu and squeezes more performance out. This was a same move Samsung made with the SGX540, which is also a very fast gpu. The original SGS was clocked real-low and had outdated drivers... after stealing the driver sources from the LG with OMAP 4440 SoC, the SGS (with 4.0.3) was performing in the same league as the 2011/2012 devices.
Kangal said:
The NOTE's and SGS3's GPU are the same.
However, the S3 is built on a smaller 32nm die-size, so it means it uses less space and less power for same performance. Samsung uses this advantage to clock the frequency much higher than the NOTE (which is built on a 45nm die).
Also, the S3 implements a new, updated driver for the gpu and squeezes more performance out. This was a same move Samsung made with the SGX540, which is also a very fast gpu. The original SGS was clocked real-low and had outdated drivers... after stealing the driver sources from the LG with OMAP 4440 SoC, the SGS (with 4.0.3) was performing in the same league as the 2011/2012 devices.
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I know that that both the note and sgs3 has same gpu.. But the one in sgs3 its more powerful cause you said it's overclocked and has better drivers..
Btw do you know why the mali in sgs3 gets so high benchmark scores even wih the 720p screen? I mean is it all due to oc and better drivers?
Whiskeyjack4855 said:
I know that that both the note and sgs3 has same gpu.. But the one in sgs3 its more powerful cause you said it's overclocked and has better drivers..
Btw do you know why the mali in sgs3 gets so high benchmark scores even wih the 720p screen? I mean is it all due to oc and better drivers?
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Better drivers + a little O'C makes the overwhelming difference.
I mean the NOTE comes with *only* 2 cores and *slow* gpu... after I customized it, its running toe-to-toe with the HTC One X (Tegra3).
An easier way to understand is to look at the new RIM PlayBook.
It's got the same processor as the Gnex (Galaxy Nexus) however its much much faster, especially in browsing. It decimates it. It even decimates the ASUS Transformer Prime Infinity (O'C Tegra3 + ICS).... or the Nexus7 (U'C Tegra3 + JBean).
You are only as fast as your slowest component. In the case of Android, its the high-level (slow) implemented software.
= Getting a faster soc with more cores and more ram doesn't really increase performance that much.
Some serious thread necromancy going on here!
Regards,
Dave
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
Kangal said:
Better drivers + a little O'C makes the overwhelming difference.
I mean the NOTE comes with *only* 2 cores and *slow* gpu... after I customized it, its running toe-to-toe with the HTC One X (Tegra3).
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By toe to toe with the one x do you mean benchmarks or real life perfomance..
Hey one thing more..aren't you a engadget reader?
Whiskeyjack4855 said:
By toe to toe with the one x do you mean benchmarks or real life perfomance..
Hey one thing more..aren't you a engadget reader?
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Both.
But I don't live by the benchmarks. I mean have you tried some of the HD Apps from TegraZone. On stock TouchWizz, the NOTE really struggles. With a custom setup, I don't get much/any problems.
Yeah, I do frequent engadget... also on heaps of other sites.
Kangal said:
Both.
But I don't live by the benchmarks. I mean have you tried some of the HD Apps from TegraZone. On stock TouchWizz, the NOTE really struggles. With a custom setup, I don't get much/any problems.
Yeah, I do frequent engadget... also on heaps of other sites.
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Would you be kind enough to educate me about your setup?
Kangal said:
Better drivers + a little O'C makes the overwhelming difference.
I mean the NOTE comes with *only* 2 cores and *slow* gpu... after I customized it, its running toe-to-toe with the HTC One X (Tegra3).
An easier way to understand is to look at the new RIM PlayBook.
It's got the same processor as the Gnex (Galaxy Nexus) however its much much faster, especially in browsing. It decimates it. It even decimates the ASUS Transformer Prime Infinity (O'C Tegra3 + ICS).... or the Nexus7 (U'C Tegra3 + JBean).
You are only as fast as your slowest component. In the case of Android, its the high-level (slow) implemented software.
= Getting a faster soc with more cores and more ram doesn't really increase performance that much.
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Exactly. Even though the Playbook has its many flaws (owned two both with screen/USB issues) it was a powerhouse. Multimedia was outstanding and web surfing was by far the fastest.
But the OS, QNX, is to thank for that. If the Playbook was running android it would be nothing out of the ordinary. As much as I love Android it really is not as efficiant as QNX
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda app-developers app
anything on market today is outdated tommorow
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Recently I had a doubt about if it's possible to unlock the 2 locked remaining cores in the Galaxy Note N7000? Because I realize that the Note only uses 2 of the 4 GPU cores... It's there a possibility to do this? How?
i think mali 400 is a good GPU because Note1 and Note2 using it. and really nice GPU for gaming
Hello everyone
I've been reading for a few days in this forum about the Motorola Razr i
I certainly found interesting articles but strangely I have found that very few refer to the Intel chip
just as I have been looking about the chip of "Motorola Razr i" and found a curious comment
"Medfield z2460 was meant to test the waters and is the reason why it was launched in india and not the US. Just a precursor to the medfield z2580. The z2580 and Clovertrail will be offered in dual core variants (not to mention quad core for clover trail) and will ditch the imagination technologies sgx 540 for an sgx 544 mp2 which runs 34 [email protected] mhz.
The sgx 540 gets 6.4 gfllops @400mhz . The adreno 225 runs at 24.5 [email protected] 400mhz and the tegra 3 (t30l or t33) gpu runs 13 [email protected] mhz. So being that 6.4gflops vs 24.5gflops is relative to 202% what do you think happens with 34 gflops vs 24.5 gflops? Plus the s4 is 103 mflops single threaded while medfield z2460 is 90 mflops single threaded on the cpu side. That's pretty close. Dual core comparison with sgx544 might actually be superior and at a higher process node (32nm vs 28nm), and that's with an in order instruction set vs ARM's out of order. I don't see how you get "x86 Atom has very slim chances when taking on Qualcomm’s ARM processors or any other new generation ARM mobile CPU from Samsung or Nvidia" with that info. Your talking a gpu and a core.
Come spring they go out of order, not to mention ditching 5 year old architecture for silvermont, 22nm process and inclusion of intel hd gpu with 40 to 80 gflops (depending on eu count) and you think there will be no competition? Even the apq8064 adreno 320 only has approx 40-45 gflops but that doesn't include the modem so higher tdp .
Maybe the exynos 5250 with mali [email protected] 68 gflops will be a threat given release schedule but still, nearly matching single threaded performance with the best chip on the market (and with 5 year old architecture), and beating every ARM chip to date in java script for a first try/test the waters offering? Swap a gpu and add a core and its game on. And adding new architecture, 22nm, out of order instruction and hd graphics and ARM might have a problem until 64 bit ARM v8."
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My question is How true is this?
not publish the link to the site because I do not know if this is right in this forum.
I apologize for possible flaws in my English.
I'm having a super-smooth experience, so yeah, the hyper-threaded single-core chip is doing a very fine job compared to the ARM competitors.
But is it true that Intel will go out-of-order for their next architecture? Because the whole point behind Atom processors was to take advantage of Intel's advanced lithography and well tought architecture, then simplify it to make it consume much less energy (and go from out-of-order to in-order was one of those simplifications).
Well I always thought Intel smartphone chips were more powerful CPU wise but gpu wise its behind.
And christ you can quote all the figures you like but it doesn't mean it'll actually reach that. Its what the individual parts can achieve.
Put them into a phone and reduce the power consumption to an acceptable level = a lot less than quoted figures
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