Hello,
I am interested in the Mi 9 and want to buy it.
The bad news is, that Lineage just started to support the Mi 8 version, so Mi 9 support will take 1 year, too maybe.
I read all threads here, but I dont see any users who are interested in a ROM without Google.
Can someone tell me if there are other ROMs without Google which will maybe support the Mi 9 in the future?
And one question to the Google users: Why do you use ROMs with Google?
Thanks!
hi!
Room without google is chinese MIUI
I personally use google ROMs, as I use some of their services, mail, calendar, youtube to name a few
Well, the device came out two weeks ago and - not as usually Xiaomi do - has already the sources out too (usually they come out around 6 months later)!
So, a ROM like Lineage (unofficial) will probably come from the dev community very soon when someone with the right skills will invest some of his/her time (and then we will have to thank that person massively ).
Anyway if you ahve already the bootloader unlocked, you can try with some of the Treble ROMs (https://forum.xda-developers.com/project-treble)... It can be that some of them works already, even if with some bugs If I remember right phhusson bought a Mi9 too (am I wrong?)! So probably Phh-Treble ROM should sooner or later work for the Mi9
P.S. MIUI China is without Google but with so much more bloat
P.P.S. Well, I like Android for its integration with the Google ecosystem that I use widely in my real life (like probably most of the users... Gmail, Maps, Calendar, Youtube, etc...). If probably I wouldn't have needed it, I would have look to some of the other (few) OS alternatives in the market
mr-mauro said:
Well, the device came out two weeks ago and - not as usually Xiaomi do - has already the sources out too (usually they come out around 6 months later)!
So, a ROM like Lineage (unofficial) will probably come from the dev community very soon when someone with the right skills will invest some of his/her time (and that then we will need to thank massively ).
Anyway if you ahve already the bootloader unlocked and you can even try with some of the Treble ROMs (https://forum.xda-developers.com/project-treble)... It can be that some of the works already even if with some bugs If I remember right phhusson bought a Mi9 (am I wrong?) so probably Phh-Treble ROM should sooner or later work for sure on Mi9
P.S. MIUI China is without Google but with so much more bloat
P.P.S. Well, I like Android for its integration with the Google ecosystem that I use widely in my real life (like probably most of the users... Gmail, Maps, Calendar, Youtube, etc...). If probably I wouldn't have needed it, I would have look to some of the other (few) OS alternatives in the market
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your answer, very helpful.
Why use a ROM with Google services in it?
Because Gmail is one of the better free email services out there. Google Music is far better than Spotify. Games saves my progress when I change to a new phone. Contact sync is extremely easy when it is saved to your gmail anyway. Play Store is the best app store on Android by far. Google's customized news feed lets me stay updated on things far easier than visiting other sites individually or manually setting up new feeds with third party apps that also take your data anyway. Google Photos+Drive is a great way to easily and automatically save your photos and sync them to new phones and without even taking up extra space on your new phone because they are really still in the cloud. Calendar is fine simply because it comes with the rest of the apps and dont have to bother with going and finding a third party app.
EniGmA1987 said:
Why use a ROM with Google services in it?
Because Gmail is one of the better free email services out there. Google Music is far better than Spotify. Games saves my progress when I change to a new phone. Contact sync is extremely easy when it is saved to your gmail anyway. Play Store is the best app store on Android by far. Google's customized news feed lets me stay updated on things far easier than visiting other sites individually or manually setting up new feeds with third party apps that also take your data anyway. Google Photos+Drive is a great way to easily and automatically save your photos and sync them to new phones and without even taking up extra space on your new phone because they are really still in the cloud. Calendar is fine simply because it comes with the rest of the apps and dont have to bother with going and finding a third party app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You forget one thing: It is Google.
I understand people who want to use Google, because they are rich and enough capacities to develope the best UIs.
I understand that some of you don't care about the data you leaves - but please don't forget that a monopoly is not good in any case, and we are talking about a monopoly with huge financial interest.
And yes, Google services are very good, but just the UI. The thing behind is just bad - they are a way better alternative services.
Keep in mind, that there are so many Android phones and on most of them is running a Google service, a monopoly with financial interest.
It is your decision if you stay with Google or not. But someone who care about the future and about his data should go away from Google.
xeDroidz said:
You forget one thing: It is Google.
I understand people who want to use Google, because they are rich and enough capacities to develope the best UIs.
I understand that some of you don't care about the data you leaves - but please don't forget that a monopoly is not good in any case, and we are talking about a monopoly with huge financial interest.
And yes, Google services are very good, but just the UI. The thing behind is just bad - they are a way better alternative services.
Keep in mind, that there are so many Android phones and on most of them is running a Google service, a monopoly with financial interest.
It is your decision if you stay with Google or not. But someone who care about the future and about his data should go away from Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. So you can give your data instead to all the other 3rd party companies who want to eak out every Dollar they can since they have so fewer users? Nothing is different except Google, Apple, MS, Amazon has to maintain far more responsibility. By handing your data to unknown persons from various smaller companies you have no idea whether your data is being used responsibly or not or even if it is safegaurded well (which it isnt). At least with Google or Apple you know exactly what it is used for and where it is stored (which in the case of Apple, it is stored with Google anyway).
EniGmA1987 said:
lol. So you can give your data instead to all the other 3rd party companies who want to eak out every Dollar they can since they have so fewer users? Nothing is different except Google, Apple, MS, Amazon has to maintain far more responsibility. By handing your data to unknown persons from various smaller companies you have no idea whether your data is being used responsibly or not or even if it is safegaurded well (which it isnt). At least with Google or Apple you know exactly what it is used for and where it is stored (which in the case of Apple, it is stored with Google anyway).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GMail is not open source for example. Why should I trust a closed source more then a open source service?
And I prefer services where I pay with my money and not with my data. And the monopoly fact is still there.
I know it is not easy to prevent all data leaks, but it is possible to 99%.
At the moment it is not easy, because there are so much money interested companys, which will collect your data.
For example: Why do you use WhatsApp, when you are using eMail? This make no sense, because eMail is decentral and WhatsApp not.
So you suceed to use a decentral message service like eMail, but failed to do the same with your IM.
The french goverment understand this, thats why they switched to an good new IM open source protocol.
But is is your decision. You need to understand the whole thing. I can't decide it for you.
If you want you can send me your browser history via PM, thank you.
xeDroidz said:
But someone who care about the future and about his data should go away from Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you shouldn't be using a Xiaomi phone with MIUI, read their Privacy Policy. Miui even has you accept different
privacy policies and user agreements for different BUILT-IN apps. It's ridiculous.
More on point; mostly every android based custom ROMs have you install Open GApps to use Google functions,
so simply don't do this. When setting up your device don't sign in with a google account. Then root your phone and
strip any leftover (if any, I'm not sure) packages from your device. I think this is the most non-Google you will get.
LineageOS would be the go-to ROM for you (and me).
Here is some more info for you: link
The Dutchman said:
Then you shouldn't be using a Xiaomi phone with MIUI, read their Privacy Policy. Miui even has you accept different
privacy policies and user agreements for different BUILT-IN apps. It's ridiculous.
More on point; mostly every android based custom ROMs have you install Open GApps to use Google functions,
so simply don't do this. When setting up your device don't sign in with a google account. Then root your phone and
strip any leftover (if any, I'm not sure) packages from your device. I think this is the most non-Google you will get.
LineageOS would be the go-to ROM for you (and me).
Here is some more info for you: link
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your answer.
Which ROM do you use atm? There is not Lineage Support for the Mi 9 atm.
I have same. I dont want Google framework and services in my phone when Android is open source system. Its very difficult have good translated rom with MIUI and havent Google. I testing remove Google from MIUI.EU rom long time but all my tests failed and China rom is bad for losing translations, have bloatware and more.
I'm interested too, I've long dreamed of a Roma without Google services as it was not enough they also added covid-19 if you find a solution let me know, thanks.
Related
hello,
maybe this is not "off topic", but i could not find a section which description would fit for my question. well, i am planing to change from i***** to android (dhd or sgs). but i am a bit concerned about google and their license-agreements and privacy policy. there is a lot to read and i am not sure if i understand everything right.
i would need my smartphone for both private stuff (pictures, email...) and business organisation (calendar, tasks, ...). and i dont care what google knows about my life. but i care a lot, what others could know.
so i wanted to know, what you think of using google calendar and adressbook. how can i reduce googles insight in my data without loosing the comfort of their services? in fact i would be willing to pay a little monthly fee if google would then keep my private data private.
thank you vm!
kws
Google contact, mail and calendar are there if you want them, take it or leave it. You can use MS Exchange if you wish, however you will still need a Gmail account to install items from the market.
Honestly, I don't see how you'll get more privacy from any other cloud-syncing service, whatever you're reading is probably just pure sensationalism.
what i would prefer most would be apps which i sync directly with applications on my pc. without cloud. or with software on my own server (like open groupware). or in the best case, both.
the problem i see with google is that they live only on selling customer-data to third parties. other providers can finance their cloud-services through other products (soft- and hardware). also google is so much integrated in so many websites and services (esp facebook). and above all google has quite mighty algorythms to seach, compare and cross-reference the data of their clients so they can get the most out of it.
in fact, i dont care if i would get advertisement which is cut down exactly to what they know from my email or docs. but i dont like eg facebook (and all websites with fb-integration, which is nearly every website today) to know my hole adressbook. and most of all, i dont want eg some injurance-company to know my interests and behavement(right word?)-patterns, so they can sell me the more expensive health injurance just because i like to surf on mountainbiking- and skydiving-websites...
anyway, would love to hear some more oppinions on this matter. dont you care at all? or what measures dou you take to stay a little more "unknown"...
thanx again...
kws
kweso said:
what i would prefer most would be apps which i sync directly with applications on my pc. without cloud. or with software on my own server (like open groupware). or in the best case, both.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is based around Google's services, it is not meant to be synced with a computer (since it's not tied to a particular OS). HTC used to package a tool called 'HTC Sync' on their Sense devices that allow you to sync with outlook.
kweso said:
the problem i see with google is that they live only on selling customer-data to third parties. other providers can finance their cloud-services through other products (soft- and hardware). also google is so much integrated in so many websites and services (esp facebook). and above all google has quite mighty algorythms to seach, compare and cross-reference the data of their clients so they can get the most out of it.
in fact, i dont care if i would get advertisement which is cut down exactly to what they know from my email or docs. but i dont like eg facebook (and all websites with fb-integration, which is nearly every website today) to know my hole adressbook. and most of all, i dont want eg some injurance-company to know my interests and behavement(right word?)-patterns, so they can sell me the more expensive health injurance just because i like to surf on mountainbiking- and skydiving-websites...
anyway, would love to hear some more oppinions on this matter. dont you care at all? or what measures dou you take to stay a little more "unknown"...
thanx again...
kws
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about advertising on search results, I hear Google get a few hits a month. Anyway, how could they possibly match a Google account to a person? They can only work out where you are to the nearest city via an IP address, you could be using a proxy anyway.
I'm not concerned at all, and to be honest I'm not really fussed if they are. My exam dates, occasional saucy emails and contacts (with first names only) aren't useful to anyone.
Maybe this has come up earlier, but I cannot find much about it.
It's on the news more and more lately, Google and Apple having access to everything we talk about daily, mail about, IM about, where we are, where we took our pictures, etc.
All through our smartphones.
I personally really don't like this idea. I really care a lot about my privacy.
Besides that I still love my Milestone and would really like to keep using it.
So now my question is, are there any Android roms that focus on privacy, disabling all these trackers and tracers, syncs and whatever? I just want a phone that I can use to browse the internet, call and SMS, nothing more. I know providers also have the ability to track phones through their network, but you can't do much about that I think?
Regards,
Panzermeister
provider
you cant do anything about providers tracking you. (but afaik providers arent allowed to go shopping with your location data)
google
when you first enable your phone you can choose if google is allowed to save your location - i dont know where to disable this afterwards (im currently in between mods and my phone is not usable) -- and of course dont use latitude ect.
3rd party apps
as far as 3rd party apps are using your data - you're on your own - keep an eye on the permissions of the apps you install. there are a lot of apps that can access your location!
Hey folks,
after reading the Article on xda about using Android without google, i instantly fell in Love with the idea. I decided yesterday, that i'll take the plunge and give it a try.
First off, why?
For me, there are a couple of reasons. First of, i generally think, the less a company like google knows about me, the better. So keeping the Data on my phone away from google might help with that. If this experiment goes well i might stop using Google for Calendar and Contacts.
Second reason for me is Battery. The Google Framework and Play Services are always on the Top of my list of Battery consumption. I'd like to see how leaving these away might improve Battery life.
And third, i'm curious if it's possible. The reason i'm on xda is because i'm a tinkerer. So pushing the boundaries and trying new things is what i really like about Android. You have the choice to do whatever you want with your phone.
So, how do i go about it? Well, a bit of pre work needs to be done. First of, you might need a google Account to set things up. WhatsApp or Outlook are simply only available from the official Playstore. Since i start with my daily driver, all was set up already.
I use the 5.0.1 Variant of Nameless Rom. Debloated, Nova Launcher, rooted and stock apart from that. I might go CM later on, but i always find CM draining the Battery more then Stock Roms. We'll see.
What am i going to use instead of all the nice google things?
Play Store: F-Droid
I'll give F-Droid a try. it's obtainable as an apk, so if you only need apps that are available there, you won't need google at all. The Interface and search is not as nice as the Play Store, but the selection is really good, Installation of apps is hassle free (no manually downloading apks and installing them by hand) and it does check for updates daily.
Gmail:
I already moved away from gmail to outlook.com a few months ago. Not because MS is better in keeping your data private (actually they might be as they make money through selling software, not your data) but because i wanted to spread my info. Mail on outlook, contacts on google, Calendar on Strato... The Outlook app was already installed and set up, so no work to be done here.
Contacts:
Here it's getting a bit tricky. Google doesn't want you to move your contacts away form them. So there is no way to directly sync your google Contacts to your phone. As soon as you deactivate the play services, all you contacts will be gone.
For me, i used the Web Version of Google Contacts, exported them all to vcf and imported them to my phones storage. I'm not going to set up a personal sync for now. I'm fine with my contacts on my Phone only for now. I might end up going the OwnCloud route later on, but don't find it necessary currently.
Calendar:
my Calendar is already done through outlook and start (my webhoster). I installed Etar from F-Droid (a open source variant of googles calendar app). All my Calendars were already in on first launch (imported from the phones Accounts). No hassle, everything looks as always.
Chrome:
I've never been happy with chrome anyways. Loading pages is slow, scrolling is nowhere near smooth. I currently compare Firefox and Fenec. Both from F-Droid. Firefox will be discontinued on F-Droid soon as they implemented none OS proprietary add ons. Fenec is a OS alternative to Firefox compiled from Source without Proprietary add ons. Both work well but Fenec is a bit unstable as a daily driver for most people.
Camera is Focal now. Apart from being OS it's also much more capable than samsung camera. Plus easier to use. Whats not to like here?
After setting everything up, i went into the settings and disabled most google stuff (Play Store, Play Services, Calendar, Mail, Chrome). I'm still trying to find out what other Google Services i may disable without braking android. I'll keep this updated here.
I'm not completely done yet. I still use apps that are only available through the Playstore. Maybe you know alternatives, that i should check out:
WhatsApp. I don't see an alternative here. Moving to another service is not really an option. I tried Telegram and liked it, but a nice app is nothing when nobody uses it...
Ebay and Amazon. Both have a good mobile website which should work. But a standalone App is much easier and convenient to use.
Nova Launcher. It's simply the best. I haven't found a OS alternative that has anywhere near the features.
Tapatalk. Again, one App all Forums on hand. Simply the best app for that. Any XDA compatible OS alternatives to it?
Outlook. A OS mail client which supports Outlook, Material Design and is easy to use? I've yet to come up with one...
Over all, the switch went really smooth. After getting F-Droid as a Playstore alternative i was able to do all this in 1 hour. I'll have to see how Batterylife works out. I feel it's better, but the numbers will tell after some days of use. I feel really good to have found a way around google so far. It's nice to rethink things you've been using for years. Even if you're not opting out of google completely, there might be a alternative to something you use, that you'd otherwise never consider.
Let me know what you think. You're alternatives to some proprietary apps. How do you feel about google being in all the parts of your mobile life? Is Android without google something you'd consider?
For further reading, here are the XDA Articles, that inspired me to start this journey:
Setting up Marshmallow without Google
The "Say Sayonara to Google" Series
Have a nice start into the week.
I'll keep my replacement Apps in this Post for Tracking what i've used and what my Pros and Cons are over time.
PlayStore: F-Droid
F-Droid is THE FOSS Android community. A good selection of Apps, easy install and Updates plus a community thats interested in whats happening behind the scenes of apps. Firefox for example will soon not be supported anymore because they now are using proprietary none FOSS compatible sources. For most, this attempt might not be the easy one (they never claim to want to go the easy route), but it sure is the most straight ahead if you want Open Source Apps that are tracked for what they do on your phone.
Outlook: K-9
I replaced Outlook with K-9 for now. It's not as polished or easy to use, but it works, is OS and Outlook was constantly connected without me being able to change that. I only need sync every 30 minutes and outlook doesn't have a setting for that. Lets see how K-9 works out, stability and battery wise...
Google Maps: OsmAnd
OsmAnd seems to be the alternative here. As a plus it allows offline sync of Maps. The Interface is nowhere near as intuitive as GMaps, i've found no traffic information until now and entering a address is a hassle. The Search feature and easy Adress Input has always been a strong point for GMaps. We'll see how the turn-by-turn Navigation Turns out. Also OsmAnd works with plugins, so maybe i'm missing some features here and there.
Facebook: Tinfoil
Tinfoil for Facebook seems to be the App of Choice. In the end it's the Mobile website displayed in an "App". On the Plus site, you don't need that horrifically annoying Messenger. Facebook chat just works from the App, which is great. Sadly, since its a webpage, Notifications are none existant. Since i'm debating leaving Facebook completely anyways it's not a problem for me. Less distraction during the day, which is always welcome nowadays...
Deezer: Tomahawk
When I thought about replacing my Deezer app I did not have high hopes since most streaming services use proprietary api's. I was impressed to find not only a Deezer alternative that's open source, but tomahawk does much more. It combines most streaming services plus some other online music services plus your local music.
One downside for me: you are not able to save Deezer music offline. Tomahawk itself is completely open source. If the Deezer plug in is OS as well I couldn't find out for sure...
Titanium Backup: Oandbackup
Oandbackup works much the same way Titanium does, but with some less options. If you want just a good Backup App, i prefer Oandbackup since it's much less cluttered and options are easier to find. It served me well when i last switched from TW to CM.
I didn't read your what i can only call a thesis on Ungooglying Android write-up, it's an effort that I implore and admire your courage. I too worry about the data that google has monopolised on, it's time we broke this and find alternative ways. I salute you sir in your endeavours.
I will drop by time to time to see how you're prodding along.
Regards
F
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I backp all my contacts using outlook. I still use playstore. I have also disabled as much of Samsung as I can, and im sure there is more I could disable of both. I want my phone set up the way I want it set up, not with what google and samsung say I should. Also use Nova
Sent from my SM-P900 using XDA Free mobile app
I added Tomahawk as a Deezer/Spotify OS alternative In Post #2
Gesendet von meinem SM-N910F mit Tapatalk
I've yet to find a good alternative to the play store personally.
I don't use google services on my Note 4. I use Here Maps and disabled Google Maps, I use Nine for Email, I've disabled contacts and calendar sync, I've disabled every google program like books, games, gmail (I have a google account linked to a generic outlook addy for G services), music, hangouts, G+, etc. I keep my contacts backed up on my own personal .com server via exchange along with the calendar. I also like the Samsung browser, so Chrome is disabled as well. Don't use Now, have all the google account settings set to not target me for advertising, not keep track of location, etc... All the regular privacy concerns taken care of there.
My battery life is about a !% loss every two hours in standby. I wish I could get it better. My old GSIII would lose 1% over an 8 hour time frame at night while I was asleep. The Note 4 loses about 4%.
Oddly, no matter how much I restrict my access to google services, the people section of the play store still links me to a ton of people I know. Some that I have not had contact with since High School. Very strange. The only thing I can think is people I do know have me in their contacts so it assumes I know these people correctly. The phone is obviously reading my phone number without me entering it into my google account. :shrug:
I look forward to reading how it goes for you. (I broke down and signed up for Google Music the other day out of curiosity, but I'll get some of my anonymity back when I cancel my google account and create a new one.)
Alright,
some Updates:
I switched to the official CM12 build yesterday. It seems to run fairly well. My Radio was not able to register in the Network once, but activating and deactivating flight mode fixed that. Reception seems to be better than on TW rom. Concerning Battery i see no major difference for now.
CM is Open Source. I'm not 100% sure that every preinstalled app is 100% open source. During the Weekend i'll review the code and do a build on my own, just to be sure. Also, theres a pure AOSP build coming, which i'll be testing.
This time i didn't even Install Gapps. I did not log in to cm accounts or anything. I installed F-Droid from my SD Card and went from there. One thing i'll have to keep in mind, is, that factory reset means loosing my contacts, so i'll have to do a backup the next time.
Also i switched from Titanium to Oandbackup. I works much the same way and served me well during the switch from TW to CM. For me the relevant options are much easier to find (Safe Backups to external SD...).
Since Battery endurance is one of my concerns, i do some changes to improve that:
- Since the N4 has an AMOLED Display, using Black Background and Dark Apps helps quite a bit. I'm using Dark Material Beta through CM Theme Engine. Its Black (i like solid Black, not Gray or something like that) and white and does theme quite a lot of Apps (WhatsApp as an important one).
- I deactivated AudioFX, All Live Backgrounds, Stock Browser, CM-Backgrounds, Calendar and NFC Tags
- for cLock (Lockscreen Clock) i deleted all permissions to access location and Data. It's been trying to update weather all the time, which you can't seem to disable
I'd really like a simple white Icon theme, but getting most themes for CM depends on the Play Store. There are not many good themes that are available outside of the Playstore... Any help here is appreciated :good:
bbeelzebub said:
...My battery life is about a !% loss every two hours in standby. I wish I could get it better. My old GSIII would lose 1% over an 8 hour time frame at night while I was asleep. The Note 4 loses about 4%...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Over the last night i lost 2% over 7.5 hours. With 4G, WiFi, BT, Mail Sync (once per hour). Quite good, but i think theres a bit in it. K-9 (Mail) and Whatsapp keep the Mobile Network active. K-9 does so relatively long although i should only Sync once per hour. I'll configure some kind of "Whatsapp do not disturde" over night, this should bring down Standby draw a bit...
domsch1988 said:
Over the last night i lost 2% over 7.5 hours. With 4G, WiFi, BT, Mail Sync (once per hour). Quite good, but i think theres a bit in it. K-9 (Mail) and Whatsapp keep the Mobile Network active. K-9 does so relatively long although i should only Sync once per hour. I'll configure some kind of "Whatsapp do not disturde" over night, this should bring down Standby draw a bit...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I leave 4G, WiFi, BT and Mail on all the time as well. It doesn't make any difference when I turn them off that I've noticed. I use ActiveSync for my email / calendars / contacts and it really is no difference from when I used to use google for the calendar / contacts and a pop 3 account. As long as I don't use the stock email app which kills the battery on exchange or Activesync.
There are a few Samsung apps that I can't disable that I would like to. (I'm on a non rootable US model), I think I'll take the time tomorrow and see if I can use debloater to shut them down. Now that I think about it, there were less Samsung things running all the time on my old phone and I'm sure that makes a slight difference.
You can download Whats App from their site without going through Google since its attached to your phone number.
https://www.whatsapp.com/android/
...There is no way Focal is more capable than the Samsung Camera app. How do you figure this?
jetbruceli said:
You can download Whats App from their site without going through Google since its attached to your phone number.
https://www.whatsapp.com/android/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't use whatsapp at all considering they are owned by facebook and every message you send is being tracked. Telegram is the better option.
Toss3 said:
Wouldn't use whatsapp at all considering they are owned by facebook and every message you send is being tracked. Telegram is the better option.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the dumbest reason to not use Whats App. It was bought to protect FB from losing ground. Telegram has all your messages on a server to where as Whats app is peer to peer. There is no reason to worry about big Facebook looking at your every message. Also, i would rather have FB, Google or MS looking at my stuff than some unknown company.
---------- Post added at 10:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 AM ----------
freeza said:
...There is no way Focal is more capable than the Samsung Camera app. How do you figure this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont get that either, also stock camera doenst need google play services to be used.
jetbruceli said:
That is the dumbest reason to not use Whats App. It was bought to protect FB from losing ground. Telegram has all your messages on a server to where as Whats app is peer to peer. There is no reason to worry about big Facebook looking at your every message. Also, i would rather have FB, Google or MS looking at my stuff than some unknown company.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Telegram does not save your messages on a server when you use private chats. They are also encrypted.
Oh and: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/whatsapp-ranked-worst-for-users-data-privacy-in-internet-snooping-report-10328539.html http://time.com/3928503/whatsapp-privacy-watchdog/
This shows how "secure" WhatsApp really is: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33152898
Toss3 said:
Telegram does not save your messages on a server when you use private chats. They are also encrypted.
Oh and: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/whatsapp-ranked-worst-for-users-data-privacy-in-internet-snooping-report-10328539.html http://time.com/3928503/whatsapp-privacy-watchdog/
This shows how "secure" WhatsApp really is: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-33152898
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am sure there are security holes in everything we use but it doesnt change the fact that Whats App is better for most people. This isnt a whats app vs telegram thread and also, I am not sure if you can install telegram on its own without google or other app stores like you can with whats app
I received my much anticipated OnePlus 6T yesterday. Unboxed it, tapped "Start" button. Scanned through both "Agreements," turned it off, boxed it up, got an RMA and shipped it back. I'm no attorney, I'm a broadcast engineer, but in my job I have to navigate the whole alphabet soup of government agencies red tape so I've learned some "legalese." I' returned the 6T because of the language in the "Agreements". When you tap "I agree" to both, then activate and use the device, your granting OnePlus access to anything on the device or networks on which it connects (condensed Reader's Digest version). Like everybody in the broadcast business I have "a lot of irons in the fire," I make notes about projects and ideas on my phone. There's no way I'm giving anyone permission to cherry pick my creativity or access to my company & networks proprietary information. I'm offering this as my personal observation on this forum and suggest anyone who is just receiving theirs new, read the legalese very carefully before you tap "I Agree."
Who the **** reads those? ?
Still why I don't buy any device that doesn't have Lineage support... However what are you going to replace it with? Going to go buy another flagship? Have you glanced through other's privacy policies? This stuff is pretty boiler plate at this point, it's CYA. Not that I'm defending it, because it shouldn't be like that, but in today's "sue happy world", and "everything needs to be connected", guess what? The solution would be just to remove this these services, there are tons of posts of which OnePlus services to remove if you want to stay on OOS and protect your privacy.
So back to the replacement, lets take a Samsung, those are popular....., have you glanced at their privacy policy, because it's similar link
I didn't go over entirely, and I'm sure there's more details, but I'm guessing OnePlus's blurb, looked something similar to this (From Samsung's Website):
In addition to the information you provide, we may collect information about your use of our Services through software on your device and other means. For example, we may collect:
Device information - such as your hardware model, IMEI number and other unique device identifiers, MAC address, IP address, operating system versions, and settings of the device you use to access the Services.
Log information - such as the time and duration of your use of the Service, search query terms you enter through the Services, and any information stored in cookies that we have set on your device.
Location information - such as your device’s GPS signal or information about nearby WiFi access points and cell towers that may be transmitted to us when you use certain Services.
Voice information - such as recordings of your voice that we make (and may store on our servers) when you use voice commands to control a Service. (Note that if we work with a third-party service provider that provides speech-to-text conversion services on our behalf. This provider may receive and store certain voice commands.)
Other information about your use of the Services, such as the apps you use, the websites you visit, and how you interact with content offered through a Service.
Information from third-party sources
We may receive information about you from publicly and commercially available sources (as permitted by law), which we may combine with other information we receive from or about you. We also may receive information about you from third-party social networking services when you choose to connect with those services.
I'm not new to android or privacy by any means.
This kind of obscure language is no mistake or ctrl c/v standard.
All of these are poored over by lawyers on mass.
.
It is for this reason I exclusively run custom rims & mods and a majority of my devices are root/xposed with multiple layers of privacy in mind.
.
There used to be a much bigger crowd of developers and possibilities...
But we seem to be a dying breed.
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I'm deeply saddened at the lack of true device level privacy or the concern for it.
And no
You'll not catch me trusting Google or an oem.
I barely trust open source.
.
Any links to further improve safety security and privacy on an Android device would be appreciated
If you think what the 6T collects is bad wait till you hear about Google.. Android is just a glorified data collection OS.. All they care about is profiling from us and learning everything to target ads and sell to 3rd parties after all Google is an Ad company.. If you want privacy compile AOSP and use MicroG avoid all Google services and use as much FOSS apps as possible.
---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------
OhioYJ said:
Still why I don't buy any device that doesn't have Lineage support... However what are you going to replace it with? Going to go buy another flagship? Have you glanced through other's privacy policies? This stuff is pretty boiler plate at this point, it's CYA. Not that I'm defending it, because it shouldn't be like that, but in today's "sue happy world", and "everything needs to be connected", guess what? The solution would be just to remove this these services, there are tons of posts of which OnePlus services to remove if you want to stay on OOS and protect your privacy.
So back to the replacement, lets take a Samsung, those are popular....., have you glanced at their privacy policy, because it's similar link
I didn't go over entirely, and I'm sure there's more details, but I'm guessing OnePlus's blurb, looked something similar to this (From Samsung's Website):
In addition to the information you provide, we may collect information about your use of our Services through software on your device and other means. For example, we may collect:
Device information - such as your hardware model, IMEI number and other unique device identifiers, MAC address, IP address, operating system versions, and settings of the device you use to access the Services.
Log information - such as the time and duration of your use of the Service, search query terms you enter through the Services, and any information stored in cookies that we have set on your device.
Location information - such as your device’s GPS signal or information about nearby WiFi access points and cell towers that may be transmitted to us when you use certain Services.
Voice information - such as recordings of your voice that we make (and may store on our servers) when you use voice commands to control a Service. (Note that if we work with a third-party service provider that provides speech-to-text conversion services on our behalf. This provider may receive and store certain voice commands.)
Other information about your use of the Services, such as the apps you use, the websites you visit, and how you interact with content offered through a Service.
Information from third-party sources
We may receive information about you from publicly and commercially available sources (as permitted by law), which we may combine with other information we receive from or about you. We also may receive information about you from third-party social networking services when you choose to connect with those services.
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Lineage also collects weird data like what device you installed on, Carrier etc.. Not sure why it needs this but I don't run it for that reason.
nima0003 said:
Who the **** reads those?
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people who can read
Lebrun213 said:
people who can read
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Did you return yours?
liam_davenport said:
If you think what the 6T collects is bad wait till you hear about Google.. Android is just a glorified data collection OS.. All they care about is profiling from us and learning everything to target ads and sell to 3rd parties after all Google is an Ad company.. If you want privacy compile AOSP and use MicroG avoid all Google services and use as much FOSS apps as possible.
---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------
Lineage also collects weird data like what device you installed on, Carrier etc.. Not sure why it needs this but I don't run it for that reason.
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So they can get an idea of which devices to develop for and their user base.
liam_davenport said:
Lineage also collects weird data like what device you installed on, Carrier etc.. Not sure why it needs this but I don't run it for that reason.
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As soon as you install Lineage it asks if you want to share / participate in this program? You don't have to share this information. If you overlooked it the user can disable this sharing in the settings. They don't try and hide it at all.
I also don't know of any Lineage builds / trees that are hidden unlike other ROMs that are popular. So everything is out in the open.
Lineage has always been my first choice, so maybe I'm biased?
Caltinpla said:
Did you return yours?
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custom OS and MicroG
got rid of oneplus & google spyware without loosing fonctionality (except fingerprint reader obviously)
Lebrun213 said:
custom OS and MicroG
got rid of oneplus & google spyware without loosing fonctionality (except fingerprint reader obviously)
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So, you really believe custom roms and other phone makers don't spy on you? Good luck with that!!!
Caltinpla said:
So, you really believe custom roms and other phone makers don't spy on you? Good luck with that!!!
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If you think custom roms (AOSP) are spying on you you're on the wrong website
Intrusive TOS suck big time, but, unfortunately, if you have a email address or cell phone, use the internet in any way shape or form, forget about any sense of privacy..
I make sure I dont do anything "iffy" on my cell phone; never use it for banking or bill paying, so I feel a little less paranoid, but there is really NO WAY, aside from not having an email address/cell phone/internet connection to keep your life from some prying eyes..
Lebrun213 said:
custom OS and MicroG
got rid of oneplus & google spyware without loosing fonctionality (except fingerprint reader obviously)
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Root and block everything.
Caltinpla said:
So, you really believe custom roms and other phone makers don't spy on you? Good luck with that!!!
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i trust open source, if there is a doubt with the code, anyone can check (not saying everyone does that).
Google service, oneplus, etc ... on the other hand are completely locked and you have no way to see what it really does.
Btw, i switched because of the much better battery and performance i get without these spyware constantly running, not much about privacy... Still use google.com everyday so they aren't missing anything :laugh:
The only one you have to agree to is the first one. The rest you can decline and still setup your phone. I agree with Micro G but, if go a step further and install NanoDroid. It comes with replacement Google apps and GPS and all sorts of things to disconnect you from Google but have a functioning phone.
Sent from my OnePlus6T using XDA Labs
liam_davenport said:
If you think what the 6T collects is bad wait till you hear about Google.. Android is just a glorified data collection OS.. All they care about is profiling from us and learning everything to target ads and sell to 3rd parties after all Google is an Ad company.. If you want privacy compile AOSP and use MicroG avoid all Google services and use as much FOSS apps as possible.
---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------
Lineage also collects weird data like what device you installed on, Carrier etc.. Not sure why it needs this but I don't run it for that reason.
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False. Google does not sell user data to third parties, or to anyone. It's never even been considered. Unfortunately due to a mix of people not understanding how technology works and assuming that every "tech company" operates in exactly the same way this particular piece of fake news just won't die. There are plenty of terrible things they actually do nowadays, better to focus on those anyway
tech_head said:
Root and block everything.
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so much this
every manufacturer has some sort of logging / reading data.
root, and monitor everything that leaves your phone - block apk's that shouldnt be running - or create firewall rules in the iptables to block applications from accessing certain sites / internet.
partcyborg said:
False. Google does not sell user data to third parties, or to anyone. It's never even been considered. Unfortunately due to a mix of people not understanding how technology works and assuming that every "tech company" operates in exactly the same way this particular piece of fake news just won't die. There are plenty of terrible things they actually do nowadays, better to focus on those anyway
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This argument would make Kellyanne Conway proud. Yes, Google does not sell user data directly. But it does so indirectly every day it is in business. By allowing advertisers to target ever smaller slices of the population and track them across websites they ARE providing advertisers with user data.
GroovyGeek said:
This argument would make Kellyanne Conway proud. Yes, Google does not sell user data directly. But it does so indirectly every day it is in business. By allowing advertisers to target ever smaller slices of the population and track them across websites they ARE providing advertisers with user data.
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A truly moronic reply that shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Have your even seen the advertising interface to Google's ad products? Obviously not because you just described Facebook's, not Google's! ?????
Assuming I was an expert user who knew every single Note 9 device option, samsung account setting, and google account setting.... If I were to configure EVERY single one of them to limit the data it collects, set every app permission to be in its most restricted state, disable every usage access setting, and configured my google and samsung accounts to be the most limited data collection accounts as possible, .... it is even possible to get to IOS level privacy on my Note 9? Is Android just sending everything it can back to google's servers as possible, such as when i turn the phone on, when i walk, move, open an app, browse the web, or whatever? I know some have already setup network analyzers to see the traffic going out, but I can never tell what configuration they do that with. I want to know if getting the privacy to IOS levels is impossible, or is it just a matter of very careful configuration....?
It's impossible. I'm not a fan of Apple devices, but I applaud them from a business perspective and that trickles down from the fundamental ideals of Steve Jobs.
Numerous studies show that Google sucks up information 10x as much as Apple which relies in differential data that doesn't exactly pinpoint the person, but more so the general interests of the person. Google identifies the person and their location. Unless you're walking around with your phone off or granting no permissions to every app, you can't match the security of an Apple device. The doesn't only include Google. Remember we have to deal with our specific manufacturers that are collecting data on us as well since Android is open source. So we just have to hope Googles intentions are good or move to an Apple device.
brainysmurf said:
Assuming I was an expert user who knew every single Note 9 device option, samsung account setting, and google account setting.... If I were to configure EVERY single one of them to limit the data it collects, set every app permission to be in its most restricted state, disable every usage access setting, and configured my google and samsung accounts to be the most limited data collection accounts as possible, .... it is even possible to get to IOS level privacy on my Note 9? Is Android just sending everything it can back to google's servers as possible, such as when i turn the phone on, when i walk, move, open an app, browse the web, or whatever? I know some have already setup network analyzers to see the traffic going out, but I can never tell what configuration they do that with. I want to know if getting the privacy to IOS levels is impossible, or is it just a matter of very careful configuration....?
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No fanboi of any company/mfg/OS,but,they all do virtually the same thing with your personal information/usage habits.
The differences are mere semantics & they collect/sell user information.
The following is a 2yr old article,but,I'm guessing the points they make still hold true:
https://decentralize.today/apple-vs...company-handles-your-data-better-a7022bd452b1
Arguably,Android users can control their sharing of personal data usage,but,that has its caveats,such as limited functionality on some apps/etc...
Best advice I can give is the following:
1) Carefully comb through every setting on the phone,most are self-explanatory.
2) Go to every apps internal settings & the phone's setting under SETTINGS > APPLICATIONS & fine tune as best as possible.
Even after all of that,Google/Samsung (or most other mfgs) have settings that are inaccessible or cannot change (greyed-out),so,you're still not in the clear as far as total control/privacy.
This is one of the major attractions to rooting/ROMs for your Android device.
A rooted &/or ROM'd Samsung device is the ideal for gaining control of privacy/permission control,but,it breaks KNOX & Samsung Pay,no going back once rooted,even if restored to a stock state.
You gain more granular control of such permissions & if you want to go all-in on privacy, a ROM such as Lineage gives you the best you can hope for in personal security/privacy. A brief summary,but,that's the gist.
Outside of root/ROMs,If privacy/security is of utmost importance,I'd dare say a Blackberry would be a decent choice. I myself only briefly owned a Blackberry (Android device),so,I can't attest to how private/secure you personal usage/data is,but,I've rarely,if ever,heard of any major concerns in the matter w/Blackberry.
@brainysmurf
Another step you can take to regain some control of your Samsung device is using a package disabler app & the nice thing about these is no root access is required (AppFreeze/Package Disabler Pro/Adhell3).
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wakasoftware.appfreezer&hl=en_US
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.powermanager.batteryaddon&hl=en
https://amp.reddit.com/r/GalaxyS8/comments/8nmrfq/how_to_install_adhell_3_a_video_guide/
Use the XDA site search feature or Google for more info on the above mentioned disabler apps.
You can also use ADB Commands to disable apps as well,but,please read the following link carefully before proceeding:
https://www.xda-developers.com/uninstall-carrier-oem-bloatware-without-root-access/
I have never had an apple device, But I would like to say that android as a system is opensource and the google apps that are put on top are non opensource and are probably where you lose your privacy but as a system it is transparent which attracts devs and rooting (i.e. getting access to the system partitions) is what makes android so customizable. Versus apple which you have to blind trust ios and trust that these options are 100% do what they say..
Yes it is more secure because it is closed source but at the same time For actual privacy you never know. Saying that how do you get your privacy with android needs some setup which koliosis did good explaining. But the difference between the two OSs I believe is because of (opensource)ness of android the amout of customizablity with android is really deep. To which I believe if you invest good time researching, you can get a way better state than iOS. Again not an expert but putting my opinion
For the rest
Koliosis said it all.
that_same_guy said:
Yes it is more secure because it is closed source.
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Have to correct that one. That is a myth spread by some big companies in order try to gain some customers over from the cheaper/free competition. In reality, open vs. closed source has no other effect on how secure the result is than with open source there can be more eyes looking at the code (for both good and bad intentions). As an example, simply compare a decent linux distro (from which only similar applications are installed that would come with corresponding Windows installation) to M$ Windows. Open source (and free at that) wins many times over in overall security (while neither is free from issues).
The biggest effect on the code quality (thus often also how secure it is) is on how many (real) experts work on it, and this in turn depends on popularity (open source) and/or money (company's/organization's income and policies/ideals). For the last part 'policies/ideals' just compare M$ and Apple, both have the money to throw at development if they choose to do so; former makes mostly insecure crap, latter makes half-decent stuff. (And note, I'm not a fanboy of either, or pretty much of any company, except one little local camera shop, so do read the previous with some weight on that "half-" before the "decent".)
As for small input on the privacy squeezing on Samsung devices:
I have so far managed to avoid to use a samsung-account, and that might help a tiny bit, although some features of the phone are then not working, but mostly useless features. Though there are some seemingly useful features that require Samsung-account for some weird reason, but I've manage to live without them. Like the "protected folder" (or whatever it is in English), why on earth would that need an account or anything external for that matter?!?
(Well, technically, I do have a Samsung-account, as that was required to get the phone cheaper, but after that order, I've not used that account anywhere.)
ErebusRaze said:
It's impossible. I'm not a fan of Apple devices, but I applaud them from a business perspective and that trickles down from the fundamental ideals of Steve Jobs.
Numerous studies show that Google sucks up information 10x as much as Apple which relies in differential data that doesn't exactly pinpoint the person, but more so the general interests of the person. Google identifies the person and their location. Unless you're walking around with your phone off or granting no permissions to every app, you can't match the security of an Apple device. The doesn't only include Google. Remember we have to deal with our specific manufacturers that are collecting data on us as well since Android is open source. So we just have to hope Googles intentions are good or move to an Apple device.
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This actually goes to my point... If indeed I did remove all permissions from all apps, does this mean Android tracking would be completely disabled? Or if I removed google play services, or disabled it, or removed all permissions from it? Technically, would that give it an IOS level of privacy? I'm just wondering if the OS itself is prone to just phoning home and letting it know everything I'm doing, or if it's possible at all to tame it....
Thanks for your repsonse.
ErebusRaze said:
It's impossible. I'm not a fan of Apple devices, but I applaud them from a business perspective and that trickles down from the fundamental ideals of Steve Jobs.
Numerous studies show that Google sucks up information 10x as much as Apple which relies in differential data that doesn't exactly pinpoint the person, but more so the general interests of the person. Google identifies the person and their location. Unless you're walking around with your phone off or granting no permissions to every app, you can't match the security of an Apple device. The doesn't only include Google. Remember we have to deal with our specific manufacturers that are collecting data on us as well since Android is open source. So we just have to hope Googles intentions are good or move to an Apple device.
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Yeah I saw those same studies. And they never seem to provide specific configuration data. For instance, the study showing that android gathers as much as 10x more data specifically mentioned that Chrome was constantly phoning home sending data. However, what if the user didn't log into their chrome account? I think it's much more limited in that case... Or what if the user disabled chrome, and perhaps all google apps? Is it android doing the privacy damage, or google apps/play services? If I disabled those, or removed all permissions from those, would it be equivalent to IOS? I'm an engineer in the business working at a major silicon valley company, and even with high expertise in the design of these things I'm finding it impossible to get basic understanding of what it actually going on. It is either trying to read through legalize of privacy agreements, or reading blogs and studies with claims such as 10x more data, while not providing specifics...