Hello,
i just got my hands on the Z3 Compact and took it out to test it on a sunny day.
Back home i noticed that the picture quality is really bad in auto mode!
I made a quick comparison picture to my old phone: a Xiaomi Mi2 (not the S Model) with 8m Camera.
The picture shows the text quality of the Xperia Z Ultra Power Pack which is the best example i can do now.
The automode settings are: ISO-800, F/2, 1/50 Sec, no flash
The Mi2 automode settings are: ISO-488, 1/16 Sec (no data on the F), no flash
Directlink:
http://abload.de/img/neuebitmapoksb8.png
And here the same with manual mode and a lower ISO (100 instead of 800 that was used in auto mode):
The complete settings were: ISO-100, F/2, 1/8 Sec, no flash
Directlink:
http://abload.de/img/dsc_0099emqqy.jpg
Heres another example of a picture i took when i was outside (without zoom, i just cut away some parts to make it smaller):
The automode settings here: ISO-50, F/2, 1/320sec, no flash
Directlink:
http://abload.de/img/dsc_0036lujf6.jpg
Any idea why automode causes such very bad picture quality? Any ideas on how to improve it?
Thank you for help!
Why bother so much about the auto mode? You can take such great pictures in manual mode when you play with the settings. In the end auto mode will never be great, because it does what it says: auto mode, it adjusts the settings to what it thinks is best in each situation.
Playing with the manual mode will also give you more knowledge of basic photography.
Sent from my D5803
Auto mode became better over time on the Z1C, I guess they'll keep improving it. Dunno if they made a step back here.
Dsteppa said:
Why bother so much about the auto mode? You can take such great pictures in manual mode when you play with the settings. In the end auto mode will never be great, because it does what it says: auto mode, it adjusts the settings to what it thinks is best in each situation.
Playing with the manual mode will also give you more knowledge of basic photography.
Sent from my D5803
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Auto mode will always be handy.. no one wants to mess with settings most of the times.. its a phone camera and if i want manual controls i would pick a dslr. Thats why iphone wins in camera department. Take it out and snap a pic instantly with great output. Even on my galaxy s5 i take pictures on auto and i havent seen anyone setting things up manually each and every time to take a damn photo
Auto mode uses a technique called oversampling to gather information with the 20MP sensor, then heavily processes the photo to whatever the software (Sony) decided was best (post-processing). The idea is you get the detail of a 20MP sensor, in a auto-corrected and down-sized 8MP resolution photo. Oversampling is also why the Z3 has a small amount of "lossless" zoom. (ever tried "zooming" with other phone cameras? It usually leaves you with a terrible blob of digital noise)
As with any automatic post-processing, there are pros and cons. The truth is, the software doesn't really know what you're taking a picture of, so it tries to give it's best guess on correcting exposure, colour, noise, etc. The result you're seeing in the auto-mode photo is a result of heavy post-processing (Noise Reduction), bad focus, and camera shake.
The reason your "manual" photo is better is because manual mode drops the post-processing. It also looks like you were able to hold the camera steadier for the manual shot.
"Auto" mode is far from perfect, but it will often save you more times than you know. Over time, you'll learn the strengths and weaknesses of "auto mode", and you'll know when you need to switch to Manual for the better shot. Auto mode can also be easily improved upon via software updates.
PS: A little trick I use to minimize camera shake while taking a photo is to set a quick 2 second self timer. This will allow you time to press the shutter button and then stabilize the phone for minimal "camera shake"
I have read the z3 Compact camera is great, great, great...but yeah I have been grossly underwhelmed by the auto mode. The auto mode is THE mode...sure have a manual mode if you want...if you have time. But I use my phone for quick snaps...QUICK being the operative word. I want to pull it out aim and shoot. My iphone5 took very acceptable pictures. The z3 compact has shown me grainy, bland looking shots in auto.
I don't get why auto mode isn't the most important mode for designers. It's a phone...not a camera...so make the auto mode work
Yeah, camera is definitely underwhelming. That being said though, it's better than most. My Moto X took absolutely horrid shots for the most part.
Crewville96 said:
Yeah, camera is definitely underwhelming. That being said though, it's better than most. My Moto X took absolutely horrid shots for the most part.
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Coming from 2 years on the iphone5...I was under the impression that camera technology was pretty well mastered across the board. iphone makes it look easy. There's even an annoying lag between pressing the button and the shot being taken on the Z3...what the hell is up with that?
Eclypz said:
Auto mode uses a technique called oversampling to gather information with the 20MP sensor, then heavily processes the photo to whatever the software (Sony) decided was best (post-processing). The idea is you get the detail of a 20MP sensor, in a auto-corrected and down-sized 8MP resolution photo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, my z3c is still on the way. I have a question. Will the 8MP pictures I take in Manual mode be oversampled as well?
Because the sensor is still 20MP and if I manually adjust it to take only 8MP pictures what advantage do I have in having a sensor that is 20MP? I never print photos. Only watch it on my phone, laptop or my LED tv which is 1080p and 50" screen. I don't want photos that are too big in file size unless it is benefiting me in some sense other than for the purpose of printing and viewing in very large resolutions. I see that oversampling in auto mode is benefiting from a 20MP sensor but is that the case if I take 8MP pics in manual mode?
coolmalayalee said:
Well, my z3c is still on the way. I have a question. Will the 8MP pictures I take in Manual mode be oversampled as well?
Because the sensor is still 20MP and if I manually adjust it to take only 8MP pictures what advantage do I have in having a sensor that is 20MP? I never print photos. Only watch it on my phone, laptop or my LED tv which is 1080p and 50" screen. I don't want photos that are too big in file size unless it is benefiting me in some sense other than for the purpose of printing and viewing in very large resolutions. I see that oversampling in auto mode is benefiting from a 20MP sensor but is that the case if I take 8MP pics in manual mode?
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By selecting 8MP in manual mode, all you're doing is resizing the photo from 20MP (post processing). The sensor will always capture at its full resolution.
If you know you only want a 8MP photo, there is a small benefit in resizing the photo at the phone:
The first benefit is obviously file size, but before I get into the second reason, I need to explain something first: A picture that has been converted to JPG is considered to be post processed. The compression that the JPG engine performs means your image loses details and thus has been altered. I know I said above that Manual mode means the image isn't processed, but I really only said that for the sake of explaining things easier. The average user does not consider JPG compression as post processing and they probably don't care to know. The truth is, unless Sony allows us to capture images in RAW format, the act of converting all our images to JPG means our images are all being post processed whether we like it or not. The difference between manual and auto mode is really about "how much" post processing occurs. In manual, Sony is most likely just compressing to JPG (and probably lens distortion correction but I won't get into that now) , and not applying corrections like noise reduction.
As for how it may be beneficial to resize at the phone; JPG compression is usually the final step in post processing. So by resizing at the phone, the theory is the image is captured in [email protected] > resized to 8MP while still in RAW format > compressed to JPG.
This means you benefit from the photo being resized before it is "post processed". In theory, this method should leave you with a higher quality 8MP photo versus resizing from a computer. Resizing from a computer means you're applying post processing to an already "post processed" photo.
For the average user, 8MP is more than enough, however, this is not to say all phone cameras should come in 8MP. Keep in mind that there is a big difference between an image captured by a 8MP sensor vs being captured by a 20MP sensor and then resized to 8MP. The 20MP sensor can capture much more detail with proper/sufficient lighting.
@wooki (OP):
Especially the first comparison "Xperia Z Ultra Power Pack", the one you made with the Z3C is nothing but blurred. So what is it you're trying to show/compare? I mean, yes, may the Z3C doesn't come with the best camera on the market, and yes, the "Auto mode" does not always provide the best results. Not really sure you're into photography or not, but what can be expected from a lens not even half the size of a fingernail? Not too much, right?! Get an SLR with decent lenses and a full frame sensor if you need more/better.
However, the attached fotos were one of the first ones I made with the Z3C (in Auto Mode) and think it's quite ok. No processing, just resized them.
@sxtester
I was comparing my Z3C with my old phone (a 2 year old Xiaomi Mi2) which seems to have a very good auto mode. Was just asking if i was the only one who has had a bad automode experience and if someone knows how to improve it.
How do your pictures look like without resizing?
As i'm owning a WQHD Screen all my automode pictures look very bad!
I don't want to set up the manual mode every time i want to take a picture, this phone has a shutter button to make fast pictures and with the setup phase i lose time even if manual mode gives me excellent pictures.
Eclypz said:
Auto mode uses a technique called oversampling to gather information with the 20MP sensor, then heavily processes the photo to whatever the software (Sony) decided was best (post-processing). The idea is you get the detail of a 20MP sensor, in a auto-corrected and down-sized 8MP resolution photo. Oversampling is also why the Z3 has a small amount of "lossless" zoom. (ever tried "zooming" with other phone cameras? It usually leaves you with a terrible blob of digital noise)
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Click to collapse
The manual mode uses oversampling as well, if you select a lower resolution. I've compared an auto mode shot with a manual mode shot of the same scene, and both were equal in terms of details and noise. The main difference was that the auto mode shot looks far worse because it tends to use that horrible HDR which just washes out the photo and ruins the contrast to near non-existence. I find that "multi" light metering mode, selectable in manual mode, gives far better results than HDR on this phone.
---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------
Auto:
http://i.imgur.com/er38iZn.jpg
Manual:
http://i.imgur.com/Oqwl3KE.jpg
---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 PM ----------
Furthermore, the pictures from this phone's camera would look a lot better if Sony used a better algorithm for their oversampling.
Here is a comparison between a 100% crop of an image taken using Sony's oversampling (8mp) (former attachment) and a 100% crop of a photo taken at 20mp, and then downsampled to the 8mp dimensions using Irfanview (latter attachment):
I agree....Sony's software is lacking compared to everybody else. Auto mode seems kind of hit or miss. Their camera sensors are excellent, as I believe the iPhone uses a Sony sensor, but the difference being Apple is able to process better looking images with their software. I also have a iPhone 5s, and I must agree that 7/10 times, I'll get a better looking image from the iPhone. In terms of capturing details, i think Z3C is better (as expected), but all my images from the Z3C are on the "red" side when shooting in auto-mode. In the end, the iPhone comes out with the better looking photo because I'd much rather have better colour re-production over slightly more detail that you wouldn't even notice unless you had a photo to compare against.
I still think the Z3C's camera is on par with the best from Samsung's Galaxy S5 and LG's G3 (Sony sensor). It's way better than my old HTC One M8's "ultrapixel".
On the Android side of things, I think Z3C is still top 3, and Top 5 in the Smartphone world (iPhone and Lumia above it).
wooki said:
@sxtester
How do your pictures look like without resizing?
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Click to collapse
@wooki:
Here you go, all unedited made in Auto Mode:
http://imgur.com/uMiM0Sh
http://imgur.com/0mYsf5U
http://imgur.com/vJ32fjT
http://imgur.com/8g7oJD7
degraaff said:
Here is a comparison between a 100% crop of an image taken using Sony's oversampling (8mp) (former attachment) and a 100% crop of a photo taken at 20mp, and then downsampled to the 8mp dimensions using Irfanview (latter attachment):
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony's approach looks way better because it doesn't blur that heavily. If I want to blur away all the details, I can still do that myself.
This is a bit off-topic, but I don't really want to start a new thread just to ask such a silly question.
I've been playing with the camera app some more and is there seriously no "rule of thirds grid" in Sony's Camera app? I often like to use the grids to assist in making sure my shot is straight.
Iruwen said:
Sony's approach looks way better because it doesn't blur that heavily. If I want to blur away all the details, I can still do that myself.
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Click to collapse
Really? Sony's approach is full of over sharpening artifacts and -auras, doesn't look better at all IMO.
One dumb quetion.
If i use another camera APP, it will improve the photo quality?
point_pt said:
One dumb quetion.
If i use another camera APP, it will improve the photo quality?
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It depends. I choose CFV-5 and PNG image saving (rrather than JPG) and it looks much better then Superior auto, and sometimes better than Sony's Manual mode.
Hi, I'm interested in using third-party camera applications.
I seek above all the following:
It works on Nexus 7.1.1 without rooting.
Record to slow camera videos
HDR of the best quality (for now the Samsung has seemed the best because I do not change the color of the photo too much, the HDR + colors a lot and there are comic photos)
I have already tried the typical Open Camera-Fv-5 DSLR Camera- Bacon Camera .... and they do not give me what I am looking for
Thank you
Camera Zoom FX Premium. It has the best HDR of the third party cameras I've tried due to it using exposure bracketing to create the shot. The exposure bracketing however means the camera is slow in taking a shot, because it has to take three shots and merge them together in software in order to create the image. This also means that moving objects in a HDR image may create ghost images.
HDR+ in the Nexus devices that support it I feel is a better option than even Camera Zoom FX Premium's HDR. HDR+ isn't perfect. It takes a shot quickly but has to spend time compositing the final image, due to how HDR+ works. It does however eliminate the problem of moving objects in a shot. This is because unlike the exposure bracketing of HDR, HDR+ brackets using film speed (ISO). The reason for the amount of time spent compositing the image is due to HDR+ taking ten images with one press of the on-screen button.
I had bought it, but I did not think it was very practical, right now I use Fv-5 and Google camera.
I really like the samsung camera application, because it does not distort the actual color of the photo,
And I do not need to do several photos to have an hdr by software. But I do not find anything similar in third-party applications.
Is there no port of the LG, Samsung, HTC camera that works on a nexus 6?
I'm not aware of any ports of those camera apps. As to the Samsung camera, it uses software to create an HDR effect. Software-based HDR by its very nature distorts the color as the HDR effect is applied to the image. As a result software-based HDR is always going to be inferior to hardware-based HDR solutions.
True, but it is difficult to do 3 photos in a row, without tripod, and many times there will be people, which will result in ghosts.
Which is why HDR+ is better than exposure bracketing HDR. I do believe I said as much in a previous post.
I noticed that the Camera always takes HDR photos l, when the Camera app uses the default 'Photo' mode. I alwqys have to switch to 'Pro' when i don't want to use HDR.
You can clearly see the difference, when taking Photos of landscapes with clouds.
There is no way to turn it off, but why?
Did someone also noticed this behavior?
schreda said:
I noticed that the Camera always takes HDR photos l, when the Camera app uses the default 'Photo' mode. I alwqys have to switch to 'Pro' when i don't want to use HDR.
You can clearly see the difference, when taking Photos of landscapes with clouds.
There is no way to turn it off, but why?
Did someone also noticed this behavior?
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You can take non hdr photos. Just take focus at the darker point and it won't use hdr to take a picture.
So why is there a special hdr mode, when it takes hdr pictures by default? I don't get it
schreda said:
So why is there a special hdr mode, when it takes hdr pictures by default? I don't get it
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i agree its a bad move on Huawei's part.
The HDR effect is too strong on a normal photo.
i think of it as:
Pro = no hdr
Normal Photo = hdr enabled to some extent depending on the dynamic range of the photo ( i.e. if its all a similar brightness then the HDR is very minimal - but if there are very dark and very lights areas it will be a bigger effect )
HDR mode = hyper-real HDR mode
schreda said:
I noticed that the Camera always takes HDR photos l, when the Camera app uses the default 'Photo' mode. I alwqys have to switch to 'Pro' when i don't want to use HDR.
You can clearly see the difference, when taking Photos of landscapes with clouds.
There is no way to turn it off, but why?
Did someone also noticed this behavior?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is Master AI off?
Is Master AI off?
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Sure
I find the HDR function excellent and have no reason to ever turn it off. But you're right. For those who want it off, they should provide a no HDR option. The dedicated HDR mode under the 'more' tab should be rebranded as HDR Plus of something.
Yes, I have master AI disabled and I still get to keep the HDR function without the silly suggestions. I really like that.
Can somebody explain the difference between taking a picture in the standard "Photo" or "Pro" mode with Depth turned on vs. taking a picture in Bokeh mode? Is there and advantage of one over the other. Also, does capturing Depth have any effect for editing the RAW files in Lightroom? The camera processes pictures much faster with Depth turned OFF. So what I'd like to know is if there is any point in capturing Depth for regular everyday pictures (scenery, random family pics, etc.) in Photo or Pro mode vs. using Bokeh mode when I want that background blur effect.
I am rather confused by this too. According to the manual Bokeh is if you know you will want to change the focus area after taking the shot and Depth mode is for creating "a sense of depth and perspective". I suspect the depth images contain a lot more information than the Bokeh ones so will give you the potential for more impressive results. I just took test images in both modes of the same scene and actually the Bokeh image was the larger file (11MB versus 6.9MB), but I believe the depth mode data may be heavily compressed.
I have this phone and i am verry happy with this phone.i buy the phone on 15 march
But when i start the phone the first time there was a update.after the update i start the camera but i bever Find the bokeh modus on the camera app.is this function gone after the update ? Sorry my englisch is ferry bad .
Hi, you have to go into the camera app and select Bokeh mode from the list of modes about a quarter of the way up from the bottom (left to Pro). Depth mode is different and is activated from within the camera in Pro mode from the options at the top. Its the item to the right of the "hamburger". Hope that helps!
Thank you ferry much.
I have camera app 91.9.1160.53
And i still cant find bokeh .
I found a newer version of the app and try to install it.
IT was version 91.9.1170.61
When i open the app i can see bokeh.
Butt the app crashes when i choose bokeh.
I removed the update.
Do you Nokia 9 users have the same camera app version ?
Greetings
look at the camera settings and select mode management. Maybe it is switched off there?
I have the same version as you and I see it
If the camera app crashes, you should charge the battery. It's a known bug.
Oke thanks ,gonna try IT out
This is how mode management looks like
https://ibb.co/HrZcwph
The difference is that Bokeh Mode puts the fake bokeh into the RAW file and you cant undo it anymore, right?
The biggest difference is... Don't use Bokeh, just enable Depth and set your focus manually. Bokeh is basically just a quick point-and-shoot version that tries to identify the target. Manual depth editing allows full control over it after the picture is taken. Just use the Depth editing.
Harfainx said:
The biggest difference is... Don't use Bokeh, just enable Depth and set your focus manually. Bokeh is basically just a quick point-and-shoot version that tries to identify the target. Manual depth editing allows full control over it after the picture is taken. Just use the Depth editing.
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This , just use Depth, works much better.
Bokeh mode on Nokia 9 is horrendous most of the time, it blurs some parts and leaves other parts unblurred (seems like the help Google provided did NOT include machine learning blurring lol).
So coming from a photographer-background i feel that the camera on the P30 Pro is a bit heavy on the HDR. Meaning that it doesn't recreate blacks very well, and in some shot's where shadows would be better left natural, it gives it too much HDR. (Sorry the bad English)
Is there a way to adjust/turn off HDR on this camera?
I believe if you turn off the AI and shoot in auto it shouldn't apply any HDR - but I don't know this to be true.
It's somewhat difficult to get away from the HDR look since when you shoot in Auto mode at 10mpix it utilizes pixelbinning which will kinda look like HDR where highlights are pulled down and shadows are lifted. The only way to get around this is to use a third party camera application or to shoot RAW, and i do recommend you shoot RAW anyways to get away from the heavy overprocessing, noisereduction and sharpening.
/ Magnus
Use pro mode.
Thanks for the reply guys. But I don't have the time to shoot pro and RAW all the time when it comes to smartphone-photos. The phone is for taking quick shots for Instagram-stories and such.
If I want to get a proper shot I pull out my Nikon D800. But there should be an option to adjust the level of HDR in photo mode, turning off "AI" doesn't change much, sadly.
TordFuglstad said:
Thanks for the reply guys. But I don't have the time to shoot pro and RAW all the time when it comes to smartphone-photos. The phone is for taking quick shots for Instagram-stories and such.
If I want to get a proper shot I pull out my Nikon D800. But there should be an option to adjust the level of HDR in photo mode, turning off "AI" doesn't change much, sadly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use pro mode without changing any setting you will be fine.
Just surfing comparisons online and this video shows it goes both ways. Sometimes the P30 Pro pulls out the shadow detail, other times the 6T does:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wevRTMspBIM
This is also bothering me, I turned off the AI on my previous P20 Pro, and this wasn't a problem. But now on the P30 Pro, even if I turn off the AI sometimes photos come out as horribly overprocessed to the extent that the photos can't even be fixed by post processing. The effect is very similar to heavy HDR (or glike going overboard with the Google Photos' Pop effect)