Pattern bypass - HTC One Mini 2

Hi,
I've got an old HTC One Mini 2 phone which I'd like to check before recycling but I'm struggling to remember the pattern.
I've read loads about recovering like typing loads of #'s into the emergency dialer but none of them seem to work. The phone has S on and ADB isn't enabled, are there any solutions I can try?
Thanks in advance,
Jim

Probably not going to happen. If you backed up the data when you were using just write off.
If you relax and give it a few days the imprinted pattern will probably come to you as you used it hundreds if not thousands of times; it's still in your memory.
I learned long ago that physical possession is the best security. Don't be lazy about this, do it 24/7 like it's your right hand.
Passwords don't care who they lock out, worse a bios or drive failure with password encryption can make accessing -your- data exponentially more difficult if not impossible.

After many months I managed to acquire a Xpin Clip with pattern adapter which took just over a week to crack the 9 point pattern.
The moral of the story is, don't forget your pattern as there are just over 140k possible combinations which could take months to brute force

Related

Camera is slow?

Is it everyone or is it only me?
When I use the camera, I feel that the camera only captures about 2-3 seconds after. The camera is very slow too, why is this?
Any tweak to make the camera captures image instantly?
Here's a couple of reg hacks that I use.
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\Camera\Captparam]
"EnableCapKeyDelay"=dword:00000000
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\HTC\Camera\General]
"DisableShutterSound"=dword:00000001
Lock Strength
Hello everyone,
Since I (like most of us, I guess...) don't like others messing up with my personal data, and since a phone is by its handheld nature prone to theft, I started using the "Device Lock" option: The idea was that if I have the bad luck that somebody steals (or even simply messes around) with my TD2, at least he won't be able to see anything inside it, as he will have to hard reset it to access it.
However, I was very underwhelmed when I read somewhere that the type of password I use (simple PIN), is subject to breaking via brute-force attack. This was really bad news for me, since the other type of password (strong alphanumeric) is totally useless, since it is completely cumbersome to use: The phone locks at each power off, so one is obliged to enter 7 characters every time he wants to access his phone, with the added twist that they have to include numbers or punctuation, meaning that the keyboard has also to be switched every time... Especially if you are in hurry (and since this is a phone, there are times that you ARE in a hurry), the alphanumeric keyboard is totally inappropriate...
I would like therefore someone to explain the extent of the vulnerability of the PIN passwordand whether it can be broken by somebody with average knowledge in these things: If it cannot, then I am happy with it, since I do not have any important secrets on my phone, and therefore no world-class hacker will probably have ever any interest in me . If it can though, then there is no need to use Device Lock, anyway...

Secuity, Locking Phone

I dont file the pattern lock of the android very secure. There are only a limited number of combos you can do. Is there any other software that will allow me to lock my phone and require some kind of key combo/screen combo to unlock that is more secure?
Thanks!
how do you not find it secure? the "limited number of combinations" you speak of is ASTRONOMICAL. for the lowest number of connections possible (3 dots), you have 3^9 possibilities, or 19,683 possible combinations. not to mention you can have all 9 dots connected in whatever order you want. a rough calculation based on this brings us to a number in the BILLIONS of possible combinations.
this is basic math. the phone is secure as you want it to be if you're willing to take more than 1/2 a second to unlock your phone. try a 4 or 5 dot combination and unless you're using something VERY predictable, nobody will ever guess it.
kusotare said:
how do you not find it secure? the "limited number of combinations" you speak of is ASTRONOMICAL. for the lowest number of connections possible (3 dots), you have 3^9 possibilities, or 19,683 possible combinations. not to mention you can have all 9 dots connected in whatever order you want. a rough calculation based on this brings us to a number in the BILLIONS of possible combinations.
this is basic math. the phone is secure as you want it to be if you're willing to take more than 1/2 a second to unlock your phone. try a 4 or 5 dot combination and unless you're using something VERY predictable, nobody will ever guess it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? I tried to do more than 4 but for some reason it wouldnt let me do more. Let me check again...maybe I am doing something wrong.
yea, im an idiot....thanks
and the phone locks you out after a certain number of attempts requiring your gmail username/password to unlock.
matthenry87 said:
I find the locking screen kinda unsecure.. If you look close you can see the finger oil trail left when the phone was unlocked (if unlocked recently).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
unless the person who unlocked the phone did anything else on the screen, in which case, you cant tell. also, if your fingers are that oily that you're leaving streaks on the screen every time you use it, i might suggest washing them, perhaps for the first time in your life.
kusotare said:
how do you not find it secure? the "limited number of combinations" you speak of is ASTRONOMICAL. for the lowest number of connections possible (3 dots), you have 3^9 possibilities, or 19,683 possible combinations. not to mention you can have all 9 dots connected in whatever order you want. a rough calculation based on this brings us to a number in the BILLIONS of possible combinations.
this is basic math. the phone is secure as you want it to be if you're willing to take more than 1/2 a second to unlock your phone. try a 4 or 5 dot combination and unless you're using something VERY predictable, nobody will ever guess it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since this is "basic math" as you put it, then it might help to actually get the math right.
I. A three-dot passkey on a 9-dot pad would have 9^3 possible entries (729), not 3^9.
II. Since you cannot choose the same dot twice, this is actually an example of permutation. The correct number of possible entries is 9Px, where x is the length of the passkey. For example, for a three-dot passkey, the number of possible entries is 9P3, or just 504 possible entries.
Now you know, and knowledge is.. you get the idea.
quite true, and i'm big enough to admit it.
even so, you still prove the same basic point. the total number of combinations someone could have would be the following:
3 dots+4 dots+5 dots+6 dots+7 dots+8 dots+9 dots
or
504+3024+15120+60480+181440+362880+362880
which adds up to a possible 986,328 possible lockscreen combinations. now, given a basic premise that you can do one combination every 2 seconds, and for every 10 tries you suffer a 2 minute delay (120 seconds) to reboot the phone and try again (doesnt really work that way, you have to safe mode it, but lets play with the logic here) and the very last combination tried is the one thats yours, it would take the following length of time:
2(986328)+120(986328/10[rounded down])=13776096 seconds.
this translates to 159 days, 10 hours, 41 minutes, 36 seconds.
of course, the opposite is also true, that they could get it right on the first guess, in which case it takes 2 seconds. But those are pretty long odds.
but as stated, when you get locked out, theres a second layer of security, which is your gmail name and password. so unless the person unlocking your phone knows a lot about you, but somehow cant figure out your lockscreen combo, they're pretty much SOL.
simply put, most people arent going to try and unlock your phone. they're going to visit a forum like this one, figure out how to wipe the phone (which doesnt require a password, although that might be a nice feature for cyanogen to build into his next recovery image), drop in a new memory card and then make their own password for their brand new phone. the only people you really have to be worried about is the people who are always around you, like girlfriends and wives and parents and such. but then again, hiding stuff on your cell phone from people like that is shady business anyway.
no matter the combination, just looking at the finger print trail and it's possible to unlock. i find it not very secure myself. many of my friends who pick up my phone after several tries following a my finger print trail were able to unlock. i wish there was a pin # style lock. even if there is finger prints, there isnt a connected dot trail from one to the next, so itll be a bit more secure.
kusotare said:
you still prove the same basic point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the above comments relating to grease/fingerprint streaks have merit too. I unlock my phone quite a few times a day. Now, I like to consider myself a pretty hygenic person. I wash my hands no less than, i'd estimate, a dozen times a day. Still, I can't help but see the faint (or sometimes not so faint) fingerprint streak of my passkey on the surface of the screen.
The design of the dot lock screen looks really nifty, but I can't help but feel it's actually not a very practical implementation. For example, a regular number pad screen would eliminate the fingerprint streak problem and the problem of being unable to move from one dot to another without "selecting" a dot that is located in between.

[Q] Droid 4 possessed / erratic touchscreen behaviour

Since the last few days I've been getting some strange issues with my touchscreen. Sometimes parts of the screen (or the full screen) do not respond, and even the softbuttons are affected. When I take the phone out of my pocket, it either responds normally (I use pattern lock) or tries to use the emergency dialer or emergency contacts, and sometimes even tries to call a number from the emergency dialer (number 2 and luckily not 112..)
When in the launcher, it sometimes opens an app (like my calendar) and slowly scrolls either sideways or vertically. Turning the screen off and on again once or twice usually solves it for a (short) while.
I've already read some threads about it and ruled out the following causes:
The phone is not connected to any charger when this happens.
It still happens after cleaning the screen (just with a cloth, no liquids)
It still happens after disabling CPU Tuner. I didn't overlock the system, but used some custom power settings and different governors which apparently can also affect this behaviour.
The battery is still original since nowadays I prefer to use external chargers instead of buying a big battery for every new phone
The only things that changed recently are:
I installed the OwnCloud app, but that doesn't seem related.
We moved to another office building, in which the carpet generates more static electricity.
I gained some weight which may put a bit more pressure in my pant pockets than before
It started happening a few days ago, after using the .215 ICS leak for a few weeks without issue. I seem to get the problem less at home than I do at work, which makes me think it's either the static electricity or CPU governor (since battery percentage is lower by the time I get home again, so it might use a different governor). However, I've been using CPU Tuner for quite some time before this issue started, and the issue persists after disabling it.
So I am guessing it's any of the following causes:
Static electricity
Keeping the phone in my pant pockets which may put some pressure on the screen
A problem with the battery or screen somehow (moisture?)
Some other hardware issue
Some software issue
Does anybody have any tips or other ideas about this? Thanks in advance.
Edit: I enabled some development options to show touch pointer location (white dot) and trails. Screenshot added. Phantom touches seem to be focused in the bottom center part of the phone, which is probably around where I grap it when I take it out of my pocket. Trails usually disappear the next time you touch the screen, but in this case the trails kept growing / adding. I made some real swipes (upper half of the screen) and they 'stuck' without the phone responding to them (the application did not scroll) due to the parallel phantom touches in the bottom. In this case the phantom touches blocked my real input, in other cases they cause some behaviour (scrolling etc.). However, sometimes when the screen is not responding, there are no phantom touches visible in this display mode.
Edit 2:The no-touch input problem seems to be 'triggered' most of the time I open the keyboard. Sometimes this is followed by the phantom touches, but usually they start occuring in the portrait mode lock screen.
Sjaakbanaan said:
Since the last few days I've been getting some strange issues with my touchscreen. Sometimes parts of the screen (or the full screen) do not respond, and even the softbuttons are affected. When I take the phone out of my pocket, it either responds normally (I use pattern lock) or tries to use the emergency dialer or emergency contacts, and sometimes even tries to call a number from the emergency dialer (number 2 and luckily not 112..)
When in the launcher, it sometimes opens an app (like my calendar) and slowly scrolls either sideways or vertically. Turning the screen off and on again once or twice usually solves it for a (short) while.
I've already read some threads about it and ruled out the following causes:
The phone is not connected to any charger when this happens.
It still happens after cleaning the screen (just with a cloth, no liquids)
It still happens after disabling CPU Tuner. I didn't overlock the system, but used some custom power settings and different governors which apparently can also affect this behaviour.
The battery is still original since nowadays I prefer to use external chargers instead of buying a big battery for every new phone
The only things that changed recently are:
I installed the OwnCloud app, but that doesn't seem related.
We moved to another office building, in which the carpet generates more static electricity.
I gained some weight which may put a bit more pressure in my pant pockets than before
It started happening a few days ago, after using the .215 ICS leak for a few weeks without issue. I seem to get the problem less at home than I do at work, which makes me think it's either the static electricity or CPU governor (since battery percentage is lower by the time I get home again, so it might use a different governor). However, I've been using CPU Tuner for quite some time before this issue started, and the issue persists after disabling it.
So I am guessing it's any of the following causes:
Static electricity
Keeping the phone in my pant pockets which may put some pressure on the screen
A problem with the battery or screen somehow (moisture?)
Some other hardware issue
Some software issue
Does anybody have any tips or other ideas about this? Thanks in advance.
Edit: I enabled some development options to show touch pointer location (white dot) and trails. Screenshot added. Phantom touches seem to be focused in the bottom center part of the phone, which is probably around where I grap it when I take it out of my pocket. Trails usually disappear the next time you touch the screen, but in this case the trails kept growing / adding. I made some real swipes (upper half of the screen) and they 'stuck' without the phone responding to them (the application did not scroll) due to the parallel phantom touches in the bottom. In this case the phantom touches blocked my real input, in other cases they cause some behaviour (scrolling etc.). However, sometimes when the screen is not responding, there are no phantom touches visible in this display mode.
Edit 2:The no-touch input problem seems to be 'triggered' most of the time I open the keyboard. Sometimes this is followed by the phantom touches, but usually they start occuring in the portrait mode lock screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
clean you phone with an air duster than a alcohol swab make sure you dry it quickly and use 72% not 90%. make sure you get the corners... get a screen protector and apply that as well. then sbf to 217... and wipe data,,,, that should work.
if not it could be the ribbon cable,,, it may be frayed...
how to fix
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1584260
where to get the part
http://cellphone-repair-shop.com/motorola-droid-4-lcd-screen/
myfishbear said:
clean you phone with an air duster than a alcohol swab make sure you dry it quickly and use 72% not 90%. make sure you get the corners... get a screen protector and apply that as well. then sbf to 217... and wipe data,,,, that should work.
if not it could be the ribbon cable,,, it may be frayed...
how to fix
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1584260
where to get the part
http://cellphone-repair-shop.com/motorola-droid-4-lcd-screen/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, let me try that. Couldn't find the right alcohol pct. so I'd have to use some generic screen cleaning liquid, would that be okay as well?
My screen was having issues too. So I turned the dot thing on from the dev part as well. The dot seems to freeze as I'm opening my keyboard. And the dot stays frozen in place until I close the scree again. Any ideas on how to fix it? Also if the screen is open and I touch a spot nothing happens, but then when I close the screen it will sense correctly where I touched while it was open.
Sounds like the same problem, so I'm getting the feeling it might be due to the connectors rather than the screen digitizer itself. After cleaning it, I didn't have any issues for a while, but they started occurring again now.
The replacement part is not available right now, a bit expensive, and excludes the price for the required tools which I don't have yet. Warranty may be tricky as I didn't get my phone from Verizon directly. So if it turns out to be a connector issue I will say goodbye to the Droid family and just get another non-QWERTY phone.. at least until Motorola starts selling them (as 'Milestone' since 'Droid' is a Verizon brand) in Europe again. The Droid 4 is the best phone I ever had, this is potentially making it unusable for me though. Glad I didn't order a Lapdock yet!
Motorola will repair your phone for 168... out of warranty and all... I found this cheaper and easier then fixing it myself and guaranteed done right in 5-7 days..
Sent from my DROID4 using xda app-developers app
Mine is still within the one year warranty. So I want to send it in. But I'm afraid they will check for the root stuff and they will consider voiding my warranty because I was rooted. I unrooted and did a factory reset to see if it would fix the issue. So this is my only chance left. I heard clearing the data wouldn't remove the qe process they use to know that I'm rooted. So I'm not sure if its worth the chance.
Flash SBF restores everything to my knowledge. No way to see what happened before the SBF flash.
I read in the original post for the DROID 4 ICS root tool that a sbf will not remove the part that says you were rooted at one point. I checked that first. An sbf flash is really easy. I was really hoping that it would work.
they dont take the time to check that stuff... if you sbf they wont know a thing...
bty found what u need on the cheap
Motorola DROID 4 XT894 Flex Cable Ribbon 27$
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-DROID-4-XT894-Flex-Cable-Ribbon-/150849219594
If they don't check it then why should I even bother? Does an sbf change something a factory reset doesn't? I've already reset it. I'll look into the fix though. It will depend on if I have the tools to do it or not.
SBF/fastboot will revert rom changes.
About that ribbon cable how would that work as the lcd is fused to the cable?
The Old One said:
SBF/fastboot will revert rom changes.
About that ribbon cable how would that work as the lcd is fused to the cable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cant be... it is glued in place and has connectors... how else could he sell you the cable by itself... http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Droid-4-Teardown/7759/1
Just to weigh in on the whole root checking thing, SBFing or fastbooting back to stock DOES NOT remove evidence of root. qe still picks it up somehow in stock recovery.
That being said, they cannot void your hardware warranty for software modifications, it's the law (in the U.S.)
Of course, if you somehow softbrick your phone, they have no obligation to help you.
Edit: Just to clarify, I tried this myself just this morning. Full SBF back to stock + a factory reset, and qe shows 0/1, which indicates currently unrooted but previously rooted. No idea how their security works, but it does.
podspi said:
Just to weigh in on the whole root checking thing, SBFing or fastbooting back to stock DOES NOT remove evidence of root. qe still picks it up somehow in stock recovery.
That being said, they cannot void your hardware warranty for software modifications, it's the law (in the U.S.)
Of course, if you somehow softbrick your phone, they have no obligation to help you.
Edit: Just to clarify, I tried this myself just this morning. Full SBF back to stock + a factory reset, and qe shows 0/1, which indicates currently unrooted but previously rooted. No idea how their security works, but it does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your right but most ppl dont inspect the phone that hardcore... it takes time, and time is money
Yes
Sent from my DROID4 using xda premium
myfishbear said:
your right but most ppl dont inspect the phone that hardcore... it takes time, and time is money
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree it's probably not anything most people need to worry about... I still plan on sending my D4 in before the warranty is up, I've been having terrible wifi + 4G drops, even on stock (that's why I fastbooted in the first place)
I am a bit nervous though, because I've heard horror stories about Moto replacements. That being said, if Ops phone is under warranty, I'd send it in rather than trying to repair it. If it isn't under warranty, then I'd go for the flex cable, the Moto phones are built well and reasonably easy to work on.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app
I probably have some kind of warranty with the seller, not with Moto directly as I have no way of obtaining a QWERTY phone from them (they don't sell those in Europe for some reason). But I really can't miss my phone for an extended period of time, so I'd either need to switch to an old one while I'm waiting, or get a new one.
Since I don't have the tools available to open the phone properly and I don't want to spend any more money on this thing, I'll probably sit it out until it breaks. For now, switching the screen on and off one or two times seems to 'solve' it.
Sjaakbanaan said:
I probably have some kind of warranty with the seller, not with Moto directly as I have no way of obtaining a QWERTY phone from them (they don't sell those in Europe for some reason). But I really can't miss my phone for an extended period of time, so I'd either need to switch to an old one while I'm waiting, or get a new one.
Since I don't have the tools available to open the phone properly and I don't want to spend any more money on this thing, I'll probably sit it out until it breaks. For now, switching the screen on and off one or two times seems to 'solve' it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
all u need is a $0.60 guitar pic and a t5 screwdriver(can find at home improvement store). none of those silly tools they try to sell you help that much
myfishbear said:
all u need is a $0.60 guitar pic and a t5 screwdriver(can find at home improvement store). none of those silly tools they try to sell you help that much
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still have tons of guitar picks so I just ordered a Torx set for this and future problems.. hope that pushing the connector around a bit can solve it already.

[Q] My Galaxy S+ is acting rather ... weirdly.

Hi everyone!
I've got a question for you all about my Samsung Galaxy + (GT19001) is acting rather weirdly. I'm no native speaker of English and I'm not familiar with the terminology (since I'm a noob and don't really understand computer thingeys) so I'd like the answer of a few experts before I lose my temper and buy a new phone all together.
Here's the thing. A few weeks ago, I got this phone from my father. He's too old for this technology, he didn't understand it. Hence, I took it from him. But... A few hours ago, I dropped it.
yes... I dropped it. The phone looked fine, I booted the system again, I received a connection to the internet and I got a connection with my sim card, so all seemed fine. BUT; later this evening I wanted to find something on the internet and I noticed this rather strange behaviour. I wouldn't say that my phone is in a loop, but this is what happened:
- the touch screen became really anxious and in the half of the time just touching the screen may result in making pictures. (....?)
- If that isn't annoying enough, the phone works just fine, as long as you touch the screen. So, what happens is that the phone makes a lot of pictures and when you let go, the phone returns to the start screen. That doesn't mean that the phone is rebooting, but it means that it returns to the first screen (on the same wall you'd also place your widgets and maps and stuff). This doesn't make any sense. I reasoned that it was due to a bug and I decided to reboot the whole system. Didn't work. Nextly, I can't get any access to Samsung Kies or Samsung Odin because "the server is unavailable 4100".
It's a real nuisance because currently we don't have any internet connection (because the connection from the provider broke down during a storm >>>>), but as you see, I'm still able to connect my laptop via USB to my phone and I can still access the internet. I don't get it.
So, there are two things I'd like to know. What's going on? Is this failure the result of me dropping the phone? And if this isn't the case, how on earth do I fix it?
Thanks for your answers
Well I don't think it's related to dropping your phone because if it were then why all of this is happening now, it should have been happened earlier. Could be because of a malware. A soft reset will do the work.
It seems to be slightly damaged by dropping.
Send it to Samsung service and they will fix it for you.
truicentrum said:
- the touch screen became really anxious and in the half of the time just touching the screen may result in making pictures. (....?)
So, there are two things I'd like to know. What's going on? Is this failure the result of me dropping the phone? And if this isn't the case, how on earth do I fix it?
Thanks for your answers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically this should have been posted in the i9001 Q&A here, as there was a BUG in some Roms in i9001 that caused such behavior for which there is a patch, to resolve
sorry my memory is running out: due to age. try asking there for correct response.
Check this out! Links to useful Guides and " Banned " Documentaries ​

LG security error authentication #2

So this is a very odd problem that I have here and any help/input would be greatly appreciated. I am not completely a noob and I know- pretty much what I am doing. I've rooted and "rom'd" /de-"rom'd" many many devices in the past. So I figured this wouldn't be much different. Boy was I wrong. For starters, I bought this phone through Craigslist (always a great start right). Long story short, I didn't do my research right and upon putting my metro Pcs Sim card in the phone, nothing happened. Usually this is a good thing, but I was waiting for the network unlock prompt, the usual for any phone. Well, I quickly learned that LG and various others have a new security function allowing users to unlock their phones straight through an app conveniently located on the phone. Even longer story shorter, i found out the first owner still hasn't paid t-mobile their money, great. I woke up the next day, put on my android glasses and got to work. So, for starters I wiped the phone and them used the TWRP one click tool to install TWRP through adb this worked wonderfully. Then I wiped the phone again and flashed a rom (of which I can't recall, there aren't many so it shouldn't be hard to identify, it had a couple sevens in it if I remember properly) and a patch for t-mobile phones designed by one of the members here by xda. It basically enables the phone to use any Sim other than t-mobile. This solved my first problem. Once I did that I then transfered a very hefty TiT Backup file to the phone which (while on the wall charger) drained the phones battery. I very quickly came across my second problem. Apparently G4's don't have much charging abilities, of course without the quick charge charger that DOESN'T come with the phone. Great, so after tons of digging around, I found a charger that puts out a little over 1.6 amps ; just enough to hold a charge. I sat in anticipation waiting for a good thirty minutes for the phone to turn on, and to no avail it kept the same dull "0% charge battery more" screen (this of course was better than the "0% charge battery more" screen that would flash because the phone wouldn't keep a charge with the original charger). Eventually after what seemed like an hour, I caught a glimpse of the LG screen and lost control of myself, I reached over at my phone like it was my life line and quickly read the most unappealing error message ever. "LG SECURITY ERROR" in bold white letters with a small line of white text that reads "authentication error #2.". Now I've dealt with problems up the who-ha (I've owned an HTC one M7 for two years now, that's a load of problems right there:angel::angel: ) but this is, what I would like to translate as, a sign from up above saying that I should not try and take matters into my own hands here. Which is why I'm turning to this wonderful forum. Sorry for the long post, but if there is anything I've learned in my long time of Android development it's that you need to be as specific as possible. THINGS TO NOTE: the phone still does not hold a charge and continues to gain enough power to cycle through the 0% screen, to the LG screen, off, and back again. Lastly I have looked EVERYWHERE to find out what the authentication code 2 was and I didn't find jack-****. So any input at all is appreciated guys. I know I'm not bricked (or if I am it's definitely still fixable) and I love doing this stuff, so hit me with what you got, I've got a six pack of beer so I'll be here all night. Please and as always, thanks for any input at all, your effort and your time is without a doubt appreciated (I know after this I'm going to owe a lot of people a couple of drinks )

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