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now since I am new to using a pocket pc (rather than a SP), im not sure if this happens with all devices, or just the Kaiser. When i play games and emulators that use the touchscreen, the framerate slows down quite a bit as soon as i touch the screen.
so does this happen with other devices?
searching up the forum a little more i found out it happens with all QVGA htc devices. well that sure sucks, i wonder why they dont fix it. 1 thing I'd like to know is how game companies that test their games on pocket pc's dont notice the lag when using the touchscreen?
Hello there!
I want to ask all of you Kaiser owners for your experiences with the emulator FPSEce on this device. (I did use the search but couldn't find anything helpful)
The reason is that I am planning on buying a HTC Phone with the latest 400 Mhz Qualcomm CPU.
Especially the speed of Final Fantasy 7 would be interessting for me, because I own this game.
On my recent PDA with 624 Mhz and under WM 2003SE FF7 is running perfectly, so I would be really thankful if you could tell me about the speed of PS1-games on the kaiser. (maybe it is possible in the near future to overclock the CPU to about 500 Mhz for more power with FPSEce)
Best regards,
DL
I don't think we'll be running any ps games on our kaisers until HTC releases those drivers to fully support 3d acceleration. Heck, we can barely play snes games..
I was unable to get any games working with this emulator. It may have been user-error, but I gave up. So im not sure how the performance would be if it works.
o yea this was the first thing i launched on my kaiser when i got it back in october. the framerate was poor, only about 19-22+ fps. i mean yea it ran, but we would need some 3d acceleration, but im not sure if thatl even be at an acceptable speed.
that was in a game i played, when i was in the bios (the playstation menu) i got like 45-55fps.
I also used FPSEce on a 625Mhz device (Axim X50v) and it was running close to the original speed. But I was disapointed to see that FPSEce runs well on Kaiser but too slooooooow. I Tried Gran Turismo, again it worked fine, but was pretty unusable because of the low speed. I tried many tweaks on FPSEce (I also tweaked my device as much as I can), but still too slow.
I am not confident in the fact that one day we'll have the onboard 3D accelerator working , but I think we may have chance one day to get an overclock utility for the Qualcomm processor. Then, if we can overclock the processor upto 500 Mhz, I guess FPSEce would be usable ...
The other thing is that the more I play with my Kaiser, the more I can see that the buttons are not well made for that. Around the D-Pad, the buttons are too small and most of the time I press multiple buttons at the same time (and I have small fingers !). Also the shape of the D-Pad is not very good from my point of view : the horizontal size of it too big compared the vertical size. So when you play fast action games, you need to move your finger from one side of the D-pad to the other side (on the horizontal side), you can't keep you'r finger on the D-pad. So you loose time when using the D-pad, I don't know if what I say is clear enough ...
But this time, that is maybe because my fingers are too small ! Maybe I am the only one to have this problem !
The D-pad of my HTC prophet is a lot better for gaming.
When I bought my Kaiser, I thought I could then sell my GameBoy Advanced, but now I know I will still have to keep it !
Thanks for your replies.
So you can say that it's no fun to play with 400 Mhz because it's too slow to play? Let's hope a programm for overclocking will be released soon.
The missing 3D drivers are not too crucial. CPU is the most important part for any emulation.
Again, be also carefull about the fact that the D-pad is not good for gaming ... I tried again tonight many emulators (Commodore 64, MorphGear and others ) and I could find some more problems with it :
I don't know why but I've find a little lag when pressing the pad. This is very annoying when playing fast action games. This lag only appears with some emulators (Commodore 64, Morphgear, Pocket Caprice) wich are unfortunatly my favorite ones ... For exemple, I didn't find any lag playing with the Spectrum emulator (Pocket Clive).
I also met another problem : in fast action games, when pressing the left side of the D-pad, if I press it too firmly, I can feel the screen moving a little bit, just like if I wanted to open the hardware keyboard. It's also very annoying.
Definitly, this device is certainly a good device for internet/phone/business using. But it is very far to be the best one for gaming. If you know you will be playing with the Kaiser, you have to know it is not made for that, and from my point of view, it is the worst Pocket PC I had to play games (I had a Casio EM505, Ipaq 1930, Dell Axim X50v, HTC Prophet ...).
What ever happen in the future, even if we can overclock the device, there will be no way to replace the existing D-pad and its (too small) buttons.
I just thought the D-pad needed some gettin used to, then it seemed fine to me. i experianced no problems with the screen moving or a lag. it really didnt seem that bad to me. im using the AT&T branded phone (with the htc rom of corse).
and yes, lest hope an overclocking utility will be released soon
Ok, so it is playable but not perfect. Thank you.
Regarding the button problem. If the hardware buttons are too close to the d-pad try using some onscreen buttons (you can customize them for each game). It's a really great feature.
DaveLeh said:
Ok, so it is playable but not perfect. Thank you.
Regarding the button problem. If the hardware buttons are too close to the d-pad try using some onscreen buttons (you can customize them for each game). It's a really great feature.
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I don't think using virtual buttons on the screen is a solution : you will have to take your kaiser on one hand, to use the d-pad with the same hand (wich may be a problem because the d-pad is too large) and use the stylus with the other hand. Absolutly not comfortable, and dangerous for the screen if in the action of the game you're going fast and press the screen too firmly.
Also, one other problem reported with this wonderfull Kaiser : many users reported that the Kaiser speed slows down when you press the screen. I can't confirm that because I never play with the screen, but you have to know this other issue.
When you say "playable but not perfect", I can feel you decided to buy it. Really, if you want to play with it, you have to know that it's "sometimes playable, but in a bad way".
Why sometimes ? Because 3D games like Call Of Duty 2 are too slow to be playable, some other applications are not playable (FPSEce for exemple, the Playstation emulator).
And when the speed is good enough to play, then the pad/buttons problems show up.
Again, in you position, I just would not buy it ! In my case, if I could go back in time, I would not make this mistake twice.
mikeeey said:
o yea this was the first thing i launched on my kaiser when i got it back in october. the framerate was poor, only about 19-22+ fps. i mean yea it ran, but we would need some 3d acceleration, but im not sure if thatl even be at an acceptable speed.
that was in a game i played, when i was in the bios (the playstation menu) i got like 45-55fps.
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Ive had the same results and is why im pushing for the petition has anyone had games that play at near full speed. on ff 7 some scenes were good and some were just painfully slow
jaygriggs said:
Ive had the same results and is why im pushing for the petition has anyone had games that play at near full speed. on ff 7 some scenes were good and some were just painfully slow
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hey btw how big is the ff7 rom? just seeing if i should go look for it or if i wouldnt even be able to put it on my kaiser anyway.
dizzy33 said:
When you say "playable but not perfect", I can feel you decided to buy it. Really, if you want to play with it, you have to know that it's "sometimes playable, but in a bad way".
Why sometimes ? Because 3D games like Call Of Duty 2 are too slow to be playable, some other applications are not playable (FPSEce for exemple, the Playstation emulator).
And when the speed is good enough to play, then the pad/buttons problems show up.
Again, in you position, I just would not buy it ! In my case, if I could go back in time, I would not make this mistake twice.
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Click to collapse
Well, I was actually aiming for the upcoming Polaris, which is Kaiser without Keyboard. Maybe the lack of many hardwarebuttons and the reportet bug with screen-pressing would be much worse there. But I can't find another PDA-Phone which looks so "complete" in its features and size. Anyway the only game I own is FF7, so other games don't really matter much to me. And it's no game where you have to press buttons fast. Moreover we can hope for an overclocking tool. More important for me would be GBA emulation, but I would asume 400 Mhz are more than enough to emulate GBA.
What phone would you get if you could go back? Wait for future models from HTC with CGA and more CPU?
@jaygriggs: Thanks for the infos on FF7
@mikeeey: Well there are 3 CDs but you don't have to always store all three on the card at the same time. Every CD is about 700 MB, but when you cut out the movies you get around 300 MB.
DaveLeh said:
Well, I was actually aiming for the upcoming Polaris, which is Kaiser without Keyboard. Maybe the lack of many hardwarebuttons and the reportet bug with screen-pressing would be much worse there. But I can't find another PDA-Phone which looks so "complete" in its features and size. Anyway the only game I own is FF7, so other games don't really matter much to me. And it's no game where you have to press buttons fast. Moreover we can hope for an overclocking tool. More important for me would be GBA emulation, but I would asume 400 Mhz are more than enough to emulate GBA.
What phone would you get if you could go back? Wait for future models from HTC with CGA and more CPU?
@jaygriggs: Thanks for the infos on FF7
@mikeeey: Well there are 3 CDs but you don't have to always store all three on the card at the same time. Every CD is about 700 MB, but when you cut out the movies you get around 300 MB.
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BTW, why don't you go for a cheapo Dell Axim x51v? It's the best machine for emulation because of the supported(!!!!!!) 2700G. See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=347096
Menneisyys said:
BTW, why don't you go for a cheapo Dell Axim x51v? It's the best machine for emulation because of the supported(!!!!!!) 2700G. See http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=347096
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Well the most important thing for me is to have MP3/PocketPC/gaming device/phone in one device.
In the past I had an mp3 player and a mobile phone, then i bought one phone which could play mp3 in stereo, too (the siemens sx1). This device had a symbian (s60) OS, so it was kind of a smartphone. But because of that I got really interested in PPCs and Windows Mobile. So I bought a cheap x30 @ ebay. But again, it's just too uncomfortable to have two devices, so it has to be a pda-phone and those new HTC phones have a small size and most must-have features (like GPS, WiFi, etc.). So I think I could live without 3d hardware, even if that would mean bad PS1 emulation.
BTW: I really like your blog. Great work and always interesting. It really must take much time to write all that. My praises.
DaveLeh said:
Well the most important thing for me is to have MP3/PocketPC/gaming device/phone in one device.
In the past I had an mp3 player and a mobile phone, then i bought one phone which could play mp3 in stereo, too (the siemens sx1). This device had a symbian (s60) OS, so it was kind of a smartphone. But because of that I got really interested in PPCs and Windows Mobile. So I bought a cheap x30 @ ebay. But again, it's just too uncomfortable to have two devices, so it has to be a pda-phone and those new HTC phones have a small size and most must-have features (like GPS, WiFi, etc.). So I think I could live without 3d hardware, even if that would mean bad PS1 emulation.
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Click to collapse
It's not just 3D hardware support and not only PS1 emulation:
1. the 2700g is explicitly used in several other emus (SNES, GBA, FireBurn - to mention the three most important)
2. the x51v doesn't have any touchscreen CPU usage bug - this is a godsend with emulators with on-screen tap areas (on the long run, it's much more conventient than a hard-to-press button)
BTW: I really like your blog. Great work and always interesting. It really must take much time to write all that. My praises.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
Menneisyys said:
It's not just 3D hardware support and not only PS1 emulation:
1. the 2700g is explicitly used in several other emus (SNES, GBA, FireBurn - to mention the three most important)
2. the x51v doesn't have any touchscreen CPU usage bug - this is a godsend with emulators with on-screen tap areas (on the long run, it's much more conventient than a hard-to-press button)
Thanks
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as i was sayign with trying to find the touchscreen driver from teh 6700, could this also be possible to find in the X51v?
does anyone know how to manually adjust frame skip? on the website it says there are many different levels but i cant figure out how to do it
I've been obsessing over the N1 since launch. Android is super neat, and unlocked phones rock. The only thing that really held me back from the purchase was the multitouch issue. I could easily see having to reset my screen with a lock cycle would drive me crazy. That said, I love the idea of the N1, and wish to escape my iPhone prison.
I recently purchased a Galaxy S phone, but am annoyed by the lack of support (saw this coming) and non-functioning locational services. The GPS and Compass are totally and utterly busted. Sadly, Google stopped selling the N1 on the day I decided to order one. However, I have been given a second chance, by purchasing the dev phone (which I am now considering).
So, let's make this like ripping off a bandage. Have mercy, internet. I have questions that require honest answers. I'm sorry if you've heard it all before, but this kind of information is annoyingly hard to dig up. Lightning Round, Go!:
Is the multitouch problem with the N1 (inverse axis swapping when two points cross) still present with 2.2?
Do any custom ROMs, apps or tweaks solve this issue? I read that the Moto Droid had a software setting ticked that allows proper multitouch (a sort of software hack), that google had not opted to enable by default? Sounds a bit silly to me, but what's the deal?
Does your screen still lose track of your fingers (inputing the wrong characters on the keyboard), causing you to lock cycle your screen to reset the digitizer?
Are the touch-buttons difficult to use?
A fellow N1 owner I met told me that his phone showed no signs of the multitouch 'bug', when using 'Multitouch Vis Test'. He said he was running the Modaco ROM. Is it true that something in this ROM fixes the multitouch problem?
Thank you, Princes of Internet.
Personally i dont experience any multitouch issues on my n1. Im running stock froyo 2.2. I have only had to re-lock my screen once and it never happened again. The capicative buttons below the screen take a bit of time to get used to at first it might take you a couple of tries to register a click but a few hours of use you get the hang of it.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Thanks for the reply.
Would you mind taking the 'Multitouch Vis Test' app for a spin, to see if the problem is gone, or if you just don't notice it?
If the issue is gone, would you mind making a youtube vid of it?
The multitouch on the n1 will not be "fixed" unless google/htc decided to use different hardware. If you can live with a device that can only do pinch to zoom, but not true multitouch, then the n1 is fine.
Honestly at this point, I'd hold off until you see the rest of HTC's lineup that's coming up before december.
Jon C said:
Is the multitouch problem with the N1 (inverse axis swapping when two points cross) still present with 2.2?
Do any custom ROMs, apps or tweaks solve this issue? I read that the Moto Droid had a software setting ticked that allows proper multitouch (a sort of software hack), that google had not opted to enable by default? Sounds a bit silly to me, but what's the deal?
Does your screen still lose track of your fingers (inputing the wrong characters on the keyboard), causing you to lock cycle your screen to reset the digitizer?
Are the touch-buttons difficult to use?
A fellow N1 owner I met told me that his phone showed no signs of the multitouch 'bug', when using 'Multitouch Vis Test'. He said he was running the Modaco ROM. Is it true that something in this ROM fixes the multitouch problem?
Thank you, Princes of Internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) It was possibly noticable in 2.1, in 2.2 in months now I havn't see it once. You can see with the visualiser you really have to know how to force it to get it to go, its just not something which will occur with correct commands you'll be doing.
2) Its down to the hardware, I'm not aware of any custom ROMs which have anything/anything significant.
3) The only time I EVER get this is with beta super bundles of ROMs, which is either the fault of the ROM, something going skitz in dalvic, how I installed it, or just a self generating bug. All of which are easily fixable. However if you were to stay with stock or more tested ROMs, you'd literally never see this.
4) For me they just work, at the start yes they wouldnt act the same a touch screen, but now they'll act like I want maybe 99% of the time. Sure friends using it to start with have to get used to it, but its not 'broken' if you will. The only thing I will mention is if your using it in weird orientations, there is a chance of hitting the buttons [mainly search] without meaning to with parts of your hand.
5) Again, this problem ONLY shows up if you know how to 'break' it. With 2.2+ its really hard to do it if you handed the phone to someone who's never used it before, because also again you wont be doing any commands which would conflict with the limitations, so you have to be misusing it in the first place to get the bug.
JCopernicus said:
Honestly at this point, I'd hold off until you see the rest of HTC's lineup that's coming up before december.
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Agree with this.
Multitouch is completely crap on the n1. I loved it otherwise, yes every now and again it goes wack and registers the wrong thing... the capacitive buttons also suck and are hard to get used to... on Multitouch test its wacky and registers the wrong finger and won't register more than 2...
Great device, but galaxy is better.. I don't have any gps issues so can't complain about that.
No. No roms will fix the Multitouch issue. Nor make it any better.. if your into gaming with controls on the same axis forget about it, if ya want Multitouch keyboard forget about it...
I still have yet to ever experience the actual axis switch issue using this phone in real world. Sure the issue exists, but it just doesn't effect a single thing unless you use a certain game. But even that works fine, watch YouTube videos showing emulators on the nexus.
The point is, if you're looking for a reason to not get the nexus, The axis switch issue is not the reason that should sway your decision.
I recently came from an iPhone and I haven't noticed any difference in the multi-touch screen (except maybe in the typing on occasion, which I just attributed to my big fingers). I'd say for a good 95%+ of what you would do on the phone you can't tell any difference between the iPhone or N1 multitouch.
With the touch buttons on the bottom of the screen... Sometimes I hit one while typing, which takes me back to the home screen, but since the N1 has true multitasking all I have to do is reopen the app. A minor inconvenience. Or I could just type in landscape mode and not have any trouble at all.
RogerPodacter said:
I still have yet to ever experience the actual axis switch issue using this phone in real world. Sure the issue exists, but it just doesn't effect a single thing unless you use a certain game. But even that works fine, watch YouTube videos showing emulators on the nexus.
The point is, if you're looking for a reason to not get the nexus, The axis switch issue is not the reason that should sway your decision.
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Click to collapse
Games like toonWarz or nova will mess up. Has the controls on bottom right and shooting on bottom right. So when your running using the left controls and shoot real quick with the right, it'll now wig out and keep shooting even when you let go and the dude will walk a different way be cause now the sensor thinks your touching in a different spot..
Now you can let go of the left finger then shoot but when ya need precision in some shooting games you will be dead if you do that....
Pinch to zoom is fine and emulators with controls on the top and bottom vs just the bottom ( same axis), but for games like nova, heavy gunner, modern combat, ps1 emulator (unless it has opposite axis controls) which mine don't, took Warz, etc. It will not work properly ....
smashpunks said:
Games like toonWarz or nova will mess up. Has the controls on bottom right and shooting on bottom right. So when your running using the left controls and shoot real quick with the right, it'll now wig out and keep shooting even when you let go and the dude will walk a different way be cause now the sensor thinks your touching in a different spot..
Now you can let go of the left finger then shoot but when ya need precision in some shooting games you will be dead if you do that....
Pinch to zoom is fine and emulators with controls on the top and bottom vs just the bottom ( same axis), but for games like nova, heavy gunner, modern combat, ps1 emulator (unless it has opposite axis controls) which mine don't, took Warz, etc. It will not work properly ....
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this is a good explanation of what is effected. if you're a big gamer then consider it, but things like pinch to zoom in the browser, maps, pics, works just as great as ever.
Thanks for the feedback, guys.
Coming from the Galaxy S, I imagine I will miss a few things. One of them being: media playback and overall storage.
I guess with the N1, I'd need to find a non-bootlegged 32GB microSD card. But my other question would be: is there an easy way to play all of the content that the Galaxy S can handle, or is the GPU in the Samsung phone so much better that the N1 can't keep up?
I really like that about the SGS: I just drop movies (mp4, xvid, divx and so forth) onto the internal ROM and they play without issue. Media capabilities are very nice.
Does the N1 play lots of videos like this out of the box? If not, is there a decent media application?
Also, about HTC's other devices: I'd love to wait, but I'm worried that the newer phones won't have nice accessories. The N1 has that awesome car dock, that I would use all of the time. The SGS doesn't have any accessories like that, and it makes me sad. Most of HTC's N1 follow-up lacked similar docks and cradles.
If I return this SGS (likely), I will probably be jumping to the N1, just for that 'official' feel of it (very sturdy, solid first-party accessories).
You have no idea how sad I was, when Google announced they were giving up on creating their own phones. Hate them all you want: but Apple really has that system (solid build, quality integration / lack of fragmentation) nailed. I was really hoping that Google could bring that unification to Android with their own branded devices.
Loving Android, though. Never going back to iOS.
Anyone saying the n1 doesn't suffer from multitouch issues is sadly mistaken. The one thing that bugs me about the n1 is the touch screen issue. You won't be able to play games like nova, or certain games on emulators (when using dpad plus buttons that are at the same level it has issues) and it does have issues when crossing the axises.
mjm128 said:
Anyone saying the n1 doesn't suffer from multitouch issues is sadly mistaken. The one thing that bugs me about the n1 is the touch screen issue. You won't be able to play games like nova, or certain games on emulators (when using dpad plus buttons that are at the same level it has issues) and it does have issues when crossing the axises.
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everyone said the issue exists it just doesnt show up unless you...play....games. otherwise its a non issue.
The N1's touchscreen is totaly crap. There is a thread about touchscreen issues at oficial forum. It has more than 2000 posts explaning all problems of nexus one touchscreen. Check it out.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Jon C said:
Thanks for the feedback, guys.
Coming from the Galaxy S, I imagine I will miss a few things. One of them being: media playback and overall storage.
I guess with the N1, I'd need to find a non-bootlegged 32GB microSD card. But my other question would be: is there an easy way to play all of the content that the Galaxy S can handle, or is the GPU in the Samsung phone so much better that the N1 can't keep up?
I really like that about the SGS: I just drop movies (mp4, xvid, divx and so forth) onto the internal ROM and they play without issue. Media capabilities are very nice.
Does the N1 play lots of videos like this out of the box? If not, is there a decent media application?
Also, about HTC's other devices: I'd love to wait, but I'm worried that the newer phones won't have nice accessories. The N1 has that awesome car dock, that I would use all of the time. The SGS doesn't have any accessories like that, and it makes me sad. Most of HTC's N1 follow-up lacked similar docks and cradles.
If I return this SGS (likely), I will probably be jumping to the N1, just for that 'official' feel of it (very sturdy, solid first-party accessories).
You have no idea how sad I was, when Google announced they were giving up on creating their own phones. Hate them all you want: but Apple really has that system (solid build, quality integration / lack of fragmentation) nailed. I was really hoping that Google could bring that unification to Android with their own branded devices.
Loving Android, though. Never going back to iOS.
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The gpu is OK. But definitely a lot less powerful than the sgs, you will notice in movies, live wallpapers and especially games... there's a decent video player called rockplayer that plays a lot of stuff like avi and xvid , but its not ad good as the sgs player ...
Put it this way, either stay sgs and have a not so well navigation but awesome everything elsex or go nexus with good GPS but a old touch sensor that will hardly recognize both fingers on anything other than pinch to zoom.....
The only real world scenario i have encountered the axis switch is when you do a pinch on an album in the gallery to have it flick through them, it switches often when doing that.
Nexus One multi-touch sucks for games. I've tried some fancy gameloft games that req two fingers on screen, or PS & gameboy emulators that req this and it drives me insane. Can be so frustrating for gaming and is the only thing that I find a let down for this device. I wish I knew before I purchased it because the gaming although not the only thing I brought it for is something that I thought would be cool on my phone.
Simply put, don't get the N1 if mobile gaming is important to you. I'm not talking about simple single tap games, but the intricate ones (PSX Emu, EA Sports, Gamesloft, etc). If you could live without it, the touchscreen is fine for regular day to day use.
Or just root and carry your favorite bluetooth game controller. I have a mini bt keyboard that works great for emulators
so games like air hockey can be played accurately on this phone....? dont it create problem?
I'm not aware of any glitches in Milestone touchscreen, it is not as buttersmooth as an iPhone, but it is really good and work just fine.
What I know is that there is either a manufacturing error or a design error that affects several Milestones, causing the Touchscreen to act randomly and/or to not respond to touches in certain areas of the screen. If that problem doesn't get your phone, touchscreen is good. If it does, it is good initially, then it is unusable until repaired.
Hello, friends
I heard about all the complaints about the touch issues on this phone, so i went and try that touch scree test
Turns out, during the test, the phone records input that i didn't made, but, for my surprise, out of the test in real use, i never got any ghost touching any zoom problems, scroll problems, nothing.
I have the phone for more than a month now. EU snapdragon version, fully UNLOCKED (6GB/128)
I even try to make the ghost touching happen in real use, scrolling just like i did in the test app i tried it on youtube; instagram; reddit; youtube music; play store; on the samsung news feed, etc...
Does anyone also had a positive test, but didn't had any real issues?
Thanks
video of some guy about the problem:
I also had a positive test, but I didn't have any real problems or at least I didn't notice them!
MoshPuiu said:
I also had a positive test, but I didn't have any real problems or at least I didn't notice them!
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Weird right?
Gives me mixed feelings about it,because the problems that are being reported are impossible to note notice if you or me had them
It's like a fake positive in a COVID-19 test XD
Looks like the latest firmware update has fixed the problem.
S20 FE Touchscreen Issue Thread : Galaxy_S20 (reddit.com)
This is a problem for people who play games like pubg mobile. The top left corner which is on left of camera for me the problem lies there. While keeping 2 fingers on screen and pressing with the 3rd finger on top left side of screen will result in a double tap instead of single most of the time