Database Develop

Former Nokia N95 owners

I have had a 8125, 8525 and currently a 8925. I am disappointed with the camera of this phone, battery life and some other things. I was looking at changing phones and the one I am looking at is the N95. I have been using a T9 software dial pad to see if I can take the text input, I have no issue. I checked and all the apps I used are available for the symbian OS for the most part. My question is what did you guys not like about the phone to make you switch to the Kaiser. Was the phone slow etc? If this thread is waste of time for you please disregard.
Thanks in advance
-McMex

The phone is not slow at all. I just recently swithed back to Windows Mobile tonight, Symbian is great, but I'm not bias, both OS have the same software and apps, and technical similarities. I switched back to Windows to see what they have to offer for WM6. I swithed to Symbian when the first WM6 os we leaked, and kept moving up until I got the N95 8GB.
Windows firmware is more leniant in terms of modding however ;D
And a hardware keypasd is a must for me.

mcmexican said:
I have had a 8125, 8525 and currently a 8925. I am disappointed with the camera of this phone, battery life and some other things. I was looking at changing phones and the one I am looking at is the N95. I have been using a T9 software dial pad to see if I can take the text input, I have no issue. I checked and all the apps I used are available for the symbian OS for the most part. My question is what did you guys not like about the phone to make you switch to the Kaiser. Was the phone slow etc? If this thread is waste of time for you please disregard.
Thanks in advance
-McMex
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currently (with the crappy video driver of the Kaiser - and also taken into account the camera "quality", the size, weight etc. into account), IMHO, the N95 is better than the Kaiser UNLESS you need a specific Windows Mobile app not available on Symbian OR you definitely need the touch screen (to, for example, make remote desktop control or something similar - that is, mouse / stylus-dependent - much easier).
You might also want to follow my articles - in my latest Bibles, I publish extensive comparisons between the two operating systems.

we3zy said:
And a hardware keypasd is a must for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1, welcome to xda-devs
2, use the ThinkOutside SA keyboard. It's working just great with my N95. And, the cumulative (!) weight of the two dvices are still under that of the Kaiser (not to mention it's a full keyboard, not a slow-to-operate thumbboard.)

Thank you all for the feedback I am really let down by the Kaiser. I don't even use the hardware keyboard I have been using the cootek soft keyboard. Guess it makes my decision pretty easy then. I need to look into the ThinkOutside SA keyboard.
Thanks again
-McMex

I will only consider buying a Nokia again when they decide to add a touchscreen. That's what made me sell mine. For me a phone without a touchscreen is like a computer without a mouse. It wasn't a N95 though, it was a S60 1st Edition phone.

Smaniac said:
I will only consider buying a Nokia again when they decide to add a touchscreen. That's what made me sell mine. For me a phone without a touchscreen is like a computer without a mouse. It wasn't a N95 though, it was a S60 1st Edition phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I have tons of Windows Mobile Pocket PC's, Smartphones and non-WinMo devices. In most cases (except in some games and tasks like remote desktop control, drawing on screen instead of using a keyboard for input etc.), I find the lack of touchscreen a minor problem on both my MS Smartphones and the N95 - it doesn't reduce my efficiency in most cases (for example, reading/ answering mail, Web browsing, watching video, listening to audio, playing games etc.). It even helps a lot because it lets for one-handed usage.
Of course, if one uses his/her phone for remote desktop control (and similar stuff), he/she should go for a phone with a touchscreen.

Not to mention that the N95 misses out on the TyTn's high 'coolness' factor.
Next to that, i think developers in general are more interested in making software for a Windows Mobile device than a device running on Symbian.
If you really want a phone that can outmatch the TyTn in probably every way (except for the IMHO lame Symbian OS) you'll have to wait a few more weeks and buy a Nokia N82.
Sweet phone, check out it's stats here

Menneisyys said:
Well, I have tons of Windows Mobile Pocket PC's, Smartphones and non-WinMo devices. In most cases (except in some games and tasks like remote desktop control, drawing on screen instead of using a keyboard for input etc.), I find the lack of touchscreen a minor problem on both my MS Smartphones and the N95 - it doesn't reduce my efficiency in most cases (for example, reading/ answering mail, Web browsing, watching video, listening to audio, playing games etc.). It even helps a lot because it lets for one-handed usage.
Of course, if one uses his/her phone for remote desktop control (and similar stuff), he/she should go for a phone with a touchscreen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me everything is much easier with touchscreen. Browsing, home screen (my Nokia had only 2 home screen shortcuts, one for each soft key), using a full on-screen keyboard instead of the sometimes extremely annoying T9, etc. But that's just my opinion.
troyk said:
Not to mention that the N95 misses out on the TyTn's high 'coolness' factor.
Next to that, i think developers in general are more interested in making software for a Windows Mobile device than a device running on Symbian.
If you really want a phone that can outmatch the TyTn in probably every way (except for the IMHO lame Symbian OS) you'll have to wait a few more weeks and buy a Nokia N82.
Sweet phone, check out it's stats here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is the N82 better than the N95? I thought N95 was still the best one, because it is 13 model numbers higher! (just kidding lol, but I did think a lower number meant a lower model).
One thing I'm really concerned on the Kaiser is the screen, that IMO is way too big for QVGA. Mine is 2.4" and I can already see the pixels. Kaiser could be a lot smaller if it also had a 2.4" screen.
And speaking of that, how about the colors? N95 has a 16m color screen, my phone has a 262k, but Kaiser is only 65k. Doesn't that make a big difference on movies and stuff?

Crappy video driver for Tytn II ...
Menneisyys said:
Currently (with the crappy video driver of the Kaiser - and also taken into account the camera "quality", the size, weight etc. into account), IMHO, the N95 is better than the Kaiser UNLESS you need a specific Windows Mobile app not available on Symbian OR you definitely need the touch screen (to, for example, make remote desktop control or something similar - that is, mouse / stylus-dependent - much easier).
You might also want to follow my articles - in my latest Bibles, I publish extensive comparisons between the two operating systems.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any news about HTC on this driver ? Hardware clearly indicate much more possible performance ... any chance to get our device and OS delivering their power ....

adebilloez said:
Any news about HTC on this driver ? Hardware clearly indicate much more possible performance ... any chance to get our device and OS delivering their power ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not much... see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=351986

I wanted to thank all of you it did help me make my decision I should have my N95 here tomorrow. I dont think anyone here is going to care if I like it better than my Kaiser or not. I will keep my Kaiser just in case I do not. Again thank you guys for all the information and opinions.
-McMex

mcmexican said:
Thank you all for the feedback I am really let down by the Kaiser. I don't even use the hardware keyboard I have been using the cootek soft keyboard. Guess it makes my decision pretty easy then. I need to look into the ThinkOutside SA keyboard.
Thanks again
-McMex
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, your last 3 PPC's have been slideouts - yet you don't use it? Why don't you just get an iphone? Just kidding...really.
I don't use it much as well but do if the the text is long enough it gets its moneys worth. I'm been let down somewhat but at the sametime
things like internal GPS keep me stable - and the ROM Cooking community as well does of good job of filling in areas I feel are lacking...like
performance. Although, AKU 0.4.4 and 1.27.14.09 isn't all that bad. Most every phone I have been through on any platform has disappointed me.

You might consider the Sony Ericsson P1a.
It's beautiful and they have certainly fixed the flaws the they introduced in the P990. No support for US 3G Bandwidths, though.

When I bought my Kaiser I figured I'd switch between it and my N95 depending on what I'm doing... the speakerphone on the N95 is better than the one in my business-class phone on my desk for example.
Anyways, my thoughts were I'd use the N95 when not working, or when I needed to be on con-calls all day, and use the Kaiser when I needed something more communication oriented (read email and whatever else would make the character recognition/qwerty keyboard an advantage).
Well, fast-forward to today - my N95 pretty much only leaves the house if I'm going to be using the camera on it. The T9 on it is the second best I've ever used, so typing on it isn't too bad, the multimedia features are second to none, and its a nice, light phone, unlike the brick that is the Kaiser.
I guess if you're going to do a side by side of the features as I see them, it would go something like this;
GPS: Kaiser comes out ahead... getting a lock is easier/faster, plus you could always hook up an external antenna (not that I ever would).
Video: N95 hands down better since hardware acceleration in the Kaiser isn't being used appropriately at this time.
Audio: About equal.
Phone: N95 comes out ahead due to the superior speakerphone.
Apps: Both are equally useable from a smartphone point of view... Symbian has a huge community, WM has a huge community.
Camera: N95 hands down. Takes some of the best Macro shots I've seen.
Portability: N95 is smaller and much much lighter.
Build quality: There's some question about the slider mechanism in the N95 - some of them feel 'loose' but its easily fixed. I've never felt like I was going to break it. Kaiser feels more solid, but that's probably due to the extra weight.
Battery life: N95 battery sucks, hands down. New firmware is supposed to make a big difference though, and I haven't had a chance to update it yet.
I can't comment on the transfer speeds the N95 is capable of as I have a first gen N95 and live in the US, so the 3G radio is incompatible, but I will say the browser in the N95 is very good.

Welcome to xda-devs
rlpaul said:
Audio: About equal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me disagree. Audio playback-wise, the N95 is way better, for several reasons:
- stereo (!!!), very loud and good speakers with built-in (supported by Music Player) stereo widening. There simply isn't anything comparable in HTC's repertoaire. The only stereo HTC models, the Universal and Wizard, are way worse, both maximal volume- and frequency response-wise (I've done several A-B tests for my forthcoming Multimedia Bible between these three devices to see which is the best for music playback. The N95 won hands donw in every respect.). That is, if you often listen to music thru the speakers, there simply isn't anything better than the N95.
- A2DP quality. Doesn't really need to be further explained Of course, the A2DP quality of the Tilt is passable, but in no way as good as that of non-Microsoft-based devices (Nokias; Samsung's dumb phones etc). That is, if you plan to listen to music via A2DP and you know you're an audiophile, go for the N95 (or anything non-Microsoft; or, if you go for a MS device, get one that you can "hack" the Widcomm BT stack to)
rlpaul said:
Battery life: N95 battery sucks, hands down. New firmware is supposed to make a big difference though, and I haven't had a chance to update it yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that indeed was a big problem with the old firmware. However, you MUST upgrade to the new one. You'll be pleasantly surprised. The N95 with the old firmware is pretty much useless if you compare it to the capabilities, battery life etc. of the new firmware. It's like the difference between Windows and MS-DOS. Or, Pocket PC 2000 and WM5. The entire device is MUCH, incomparably better.

rlpaul said:
I can't comment on the transfer speeds the N95 is capable of as I have a first gen N95 and live in the US, so the 3G radio is incompatible, but I will say the browser in the N95 is very good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the US, you get EDGE only - unless you get the N95-3 or the N95 8G-3, which is stated to reach the States soon. This means no for example video calls and (depending on your wireless operator, somewhat) reduced transfer speeds.

rlpaul said:
GPS: Kaiser comes out ahead... getting a lock is easier/faster, plus you could always hook up an external antenna (not that I ever would).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you open the dialpad to get a more reliable lock as is also recommended in the manual? Do you have firmware version v11 or v12? If the latter, did you enable assisted GPS? With the latter, particularly with v20, I get a lock in 10-20-30 seconds most of the time (depending on the weather conditions). Without it, it's indeed painfully slow.

Menneisyys said:
In the US, you get EDGE only - unless you get the N95-3 or the N95 8G-3, which is stated to reach the States soon. This means no for example video calls and (depending on your wireless operator, somewhat) reduced transfer speeds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I bought the N95 -3 North American Version and it just got to my house. How do I know if I got the old firmware or the new firmware? I guess I should start looking for symbian forums.
Thanks you all again.
-McMex

mcmexican said:
Yeah I bought the N95 -3 North American Version and it just got to my house. How do I know if I got the old firmware or the new firmware? I guess I should start looking for symbian forums.
Thanks you all again.
-McMex
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The N95-3 already has the a firmware - it's the N95-1 (the non-American version) that used to have a much worse one.

Should I Not Buy New Kaiser Because of Video Problems?

Hi All,
I currently own an HTC magician. I want a new phone with everything the magician has plus GPS, WIFI, more RAM, and a keyboard. The only phone I found that comes close is the Kaiser, but I've heard such bad things about the video driver problem.
Video is not the biggest issue for me, but should I not buy the phone and support HTC who refuses to cooperate?
Do I have any other options with those specs?
Thanks,
Daniel

I have a Kaiser and I am very happy with it, because I can do so much with it. However if a bit of lag annoys you greatly it may not be for you.
Surur

NO. Wait some time whether the issue get resolved. Its not only the video - the whole phone is slow. You can not browse, rotating you screen. If i make a call with skype, the phone is really very slow and if i slide the keyboard and the screen orientation switches it can take up to minute to be updated - with nothing in background and free mem - only skype running. And until it switches you cant hang up, change the volume...nothing.
To be honest, i regret buying the Kaiser. And if i see how fast a cheap HiPhone can be, omg!
I wonder how HTC can have this on their webpage: More powerful than anything you've seen before, the HTC TyTN II takes communications to the next level.
You have to be blind a live 5years back, for the slogan to be true...
I bought it mainly because of the 3g and wifi and wm6... but there are better solutions then this for 520 euro...
Beware!

wait for kaiser fix

If video is not heavily used, buy it now. I bought it recently and like it very mcuh. But higher performance is still demanded...

fredbred said:
I bought it mainly because of the 3g and wifi and wm6... but there are better solutions then this for 520 euro...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
better device with 3g, wifi, and wm6? like what?
get the kaiser...it's no slower then any other wm6 device out there and although yes it would be nice if we could play more games, normal res video runs perfectly fine.

fredbred said:
NO. Wait some time whether the issue get resolved. Its not only the video - the whole phone is slow. You can not browse, rotating you screen. If i make a call with skype, the phone is really very slow and if i slide the keyboard and the screen orientation switches it can take up to minute to be updated - with nothing in background and free mem - only skype running. And until it switches you cant hang up, change the volume...nothing.
To be honest, i regret buying the Kaiser. And if i see how fast a cheap HiPhone can be, omg!
I wonder how HTC can have this on their webpage: More powerful than anything you've seen before, the HTC TyTN II takes communications to the next level.
You have to be blind a live 5years back, for the slogan to be true...
I bought it mainly because of the 3g and wifi and wm6... but there are better solutions then this for 520 euro...
Beware!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may all be true if you're still using the stock ROM. There are some really smokin' cooked ROMs out there that really speed things up and make the Kaiser a truly enjoyable device.
One other thing, show me a PC that doesn't slow down once in awhile. That's what defrag is for.

Delta_flyer said:
One other thing, show me a PC that doesn't slow down once in awhile. That's what defrag is for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you equate flashing a cooked ROM with clicking the "Defrag" button? One is a feature built into the operating system, the other can void your warranty and potentially brick your device. They're nowhere near the same thing.
I'm telling everybody I know to avoid HTC like the plague. Not so much directly because of the video issues, but because of their lack of accountability. They deliberately released a crippled device in hopes that nobody would notice, and are now working on some half-assed "fix" only because of the publicity that was generated by the XDA community.

Get one. I was in the same boat hesitating about the drivers. I am glad i made my decision. I upgraded from a 8525. Glad i did i have everything i need in one device. GPS Wifi, processing power. Im not sure what the full potential of this chip is supposed to be but its fast. I actually got mine refurbished from att about a month ago. After using it i ended up buying another one today for my wife and paying full price. Im not disatisfied. Definatly waht i would expect out of a 400 dollar phone.

Like most answers, it lives in the question.
"Because of Video Problems". Do you need or want to view videos not converted to 320x240 resolution? If you do need or want that that from your new expensive mobile device, then pass. ---- NO KAISER FOR YOU!
If you want a snappy interface and quick file browsing experience, then wait for the HTC "fixes". But still forget lag-free video at source resolutions above 320x240. ---------- > Get a Kaiser, and hope you can fix it.
Do you want fancy graphical VGA games or anything 3D? Forget the Kaiser.
Do you want a Windows Mobile 6 device that has real GPS, WiFi, 3G, Edge, 2 cameras (one for video calls, one for decent pics), querty keyboard, and bluetooth? And are able to put up with the device doing NONE of those things particularly well, then ----> Get a Kaiser.
I have a Kaiser. I live through its quirks. Its a fun device depending on your definition of "fun".
Do I regret paying $850+ for my device even knowing I was an early adopter? Yes. The device advertised was not the device delivered.
Would I discourage others from buying it at a $200 USD price point? No.
But then again, its up to you and what you expect from your device.

With Schap's ROM (4.31) and Coreplayer 1.2 i needn't a fix for "video pb"
I don't play 3D game.

Do not listen to most of what the naysayers have to say here. I have an iMate K-Jam and now I have an HTC TyTN II. I have done many comparison tests between the two devices. The TyTN II wins HANDS DOWN!!!
Driver problems? What driver problems? I have yet to find any lag on any video except maybe a bit on the camcorder app, but that's not a big issue. I watch full feature movies on Coreplayer and I have used TCPMP and WM Player with wayyyyyyyy BETTER performance than on my K-Jam!!!
Don't even think about it, go right ahead and buy a TyTN II, you will not regret it. Problem is most people drag these devices through their backsides and then they complain about this and that. They replace roms, install and uninstall all sorts of crap and then they wonder why it's acting up!!!
I have had my TyTN II since the 15th January this year and I have not experienced any of the so-called problems mentioned by some in this forum. OK, the battery does get used up quicker, but then again it has so much packed in and you can get 3000 mAH batteries now!!!
This sub-forum (Kaiser) is more like the Cheese & Whine forum!!!
BUY IT!!!!

Hey is this a HTC deHey is this a HTC dealer Thread?
The TyTN isn’t a finished device. There are much more bugs and “features” which should be avoid.
1 Video – its really slow. I don’t mind games, I even don’t watch video , because I have other devices for this, but if I wan to scroll the internet page, that’s not the speed I have never seen before! Why takes it so long to switch between portrait and landscape?
And the video from the camera I also pretty slow.
2 Speed – I have used a Fujitsu siemens n560. It was MUCH faster even if it was older and has 64mb ram.
3 The keyboard – this was one of the features why I have chosen tytn. But why they do not think if the do anything. Omg where is the ctrl key? How can you copy and paste? I have always to use the pen for it. No they put rather a key for opening the explorer, which I have used twice so far. And why have I to use the fn key to write a comma? And do you like the style of the keys? Its not even possible to write comfortably the last row of keys if you bent the display? And why are the functions of the keys doubled? Its for disabled people or maybe if you bite off some finger bored from waiting? I would expect that I can configure every key not to have three key for OK two for enter…
And maybe try to write any non-English letter – no we are in the world where no others languages exist.
I tell you, they are not selling what they are telling – What you have been told is not what you get.
What is good – the speed of gps starting, If you use quick gps.
Have a look how fast a under $200 device can be! Put Hiphone in youtube and you will know how fast the screen should react and switch.
Its not only about the damn driver, the parts of the phone are not finished. Not if the producer tells you: It’s the best you can get...

fredbred said:
Hey is this a HTC deHey is this a HTC dealer Thread?
The TyTN isn’t a finished device. There are much more bugs and “features” which should be avoid.
1 Video – its really slow. I don’t mind games, I even don’t watch video , because I have other devices for this, but if I wan to scroll the internet page, that’s not the speed I have never seen before! Why takes it so long to switch between portrait and landscape?
And the video from the camera I also pretty slow.
2 Speed – I have used a Fujitsu siemens n560. It was MUCH faster even if it was older and has 64mb ram.
3 The keyboard – this was one of the features why I have chosen tytn. But why they do not think if the do anything. Omg where is the ctrl key? How can you copy and paste? I have always to use the pen for it. No they put rather a key for opening the explorer, which I have used twice so far. And why have I to use the fn key to write a comma? And do you like the style of the keys? Its not even possible to write comfortably the last row of keys if you bent the display? And why are the functions of the keys doubled? Its for disabled people or maybe if you bite off some finger bored from waiting? I would expect that I can configure every key not to have three key for OK two for enter…
And maybe try to write any non-English letter – no we are in the world where no others languages exist.
I tell you, they are not selling what they are telling – What you have been told is not what you get.
What is good – the speed of gps starting, If you use quick gps.
Have a look how fast a under $200 device can be! Put Hiphone in youtube and you will know how fast the screen should react and switch.
Its not only about the damn driver, the parts of the phone are not finished. Not if the producer tells you: It’s the best you can get...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which is why you should try a cooked rom. the internet scrolling thing u mention? its a bug in pie, there;s a fix for that......if you decide to stick to pie, cause lets face it, pie is a pile of **** anyways. try opera mini or mobile. oh and btw......i did get my tilt for under $200
as for the OPs question, there are tons of posts here about the performance of these devices (you might also want to look in the upgrading section to see the performance of cooked roms) and I'm not gonna dd anymore to it. At the end of the day, you are the one who has to make the decision, and you are the one who will be using this device, my advice to you is just choose wisely......i took the jump and got it even after hearing about the video issues, and i never regretted it.

Just get a Kaiser and wait till end of March when the drivers will be released.

MACkjam said:
Do not listen to most of what the naysayers have to say here. I have an iMate K-Jam and now I have an HTC TyTN II. I have done many comparison tests between the two devices. The TyTN II wins HANDS DOWN!!!
Driver problems? What driver problems? I have yet to find any lag on any video except maybe a bit on the camcorder app, but that's not a big issue. I watch full feature movies on Coreplayer and I have used TCPMP and WM Player with wayyyyyyyy BETTER performance than on my K-Jam!!!
Don't even think about it, go right ahead and buy a TyTN II, you will not regret it. Problem is most people drag these devices through their backsides and then they complain about this and that. They replace roms, install and uninstall all sorts of crap and then they wonder why it's acting up!!!
I have had my TyTN II since the 15th January this year and I have not experienced any of the so-called problems mentioned by some in this forum. OK, the battery does get used up quicker, but then again it has so much packed in and you can get 3000 mAH batteries now!!!
This sub-forum (Kaiser) is more like the Cheese & Whine forum!!!
BUY IT!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you buy this phone you'll be taking a risk. It may be a small risk depending on what you'll have to pay, but a risk nonetheless of not being satisfied. At least you will have made your choice in good conscience and aware of the situation. Truth is we shouldn't have to compare this device to much older ones and say it's better. It shouldn't warrant a comparison at all but since it does there is obviously a problem. There are those that will tell you their TyTN II is "SUPER ACCEPTABLE!" but that's hardly the point. I didn't buy this thing believing it would have acceptable performance. This device is supposed to kick ass and we believe it would if it used the complete architecture of the chip inside. I got mine for $700 and my plan here on out is to just grin and bear it. There isn't an alternative device available yet and HTC has us over the fence on this thing. The anticipated fix is not going to address our concern of enabling the second core of the chip we paid for. I can confirm for you my experiences with the TyTN II and keep in mind this is before I 'dragged it through my backside' by flashing the ROM. (By the way why in the world would it matter whether it's been flashed or how many times programs have been installed/uninstalled?)
- Video playback is fine if my source is 320 X 240. I have always re-encoded my video anyway in an effort to save space and optimize everything. For this reason I didn't know there was a video playback problem right away.
- The camera is almost unusable. I have turned on the on-screen fps display and in sunlight I get ~18fps, in ambient light make that ~4fps and if it's semi dark forget about it. This effects taking pictures and taking video. The video I shoot ends up looking like a blurry mess and any picture I take better be of a stationary subject or else I will usually miss the shot. Interestingly enough the device takes great photos though.
- Screen rotation is a sore subject. I want the thing to be fluid but instead I have to watch it redraw slowly and in seperate pieces.
- Scrolling - it isn't certain that scrolling problem is a result of the missing drivers. I have to say that scrolling isn't very good but there is a fix on this forum to make it more reasonable.
- GPS works great, I've never had an issue with it although it kills the battery fast. Especially fast when using Google maps or live search because then you have the active GPRS data session combined with the gps.
- Battery life - I have a 1600mAH bat and I have to charge it every day but then again I auto download podcasts and such so I am partially to blame. As I understand it the drivers would increase battery life.
That's about it from me. Sorry this post is so long, let me wrap it up. I don't think anyone can tell you to buy or not to buy. You'll just have to make a decision yourself. At least it will be an informed decision, unlike mine.
word

"Video is not the biggest issue for me, but should I not buy the phone and support HTC who refuses to cooperate?"
With all due respect to all you guys complaining about video drivers.. STFU! already.
No one complained until one geeky ass dude bought it up. I have no problems playing my movies on my device or streaming it via orb.com. I get no lag and for god sakes it's a mobile phone not a computer. It surpasses most devices to date. I have no complaint about this phone. This is like my 40th something phone that I've had being that I work for AT&T and they provide me with devices. When the update comes people will still be *****ing about the video drivers. What exactly are you guys trying to watch? Live video feeds from Mars!?
Seriously get the phone you will not be disappointed. For the record my device does not lag when I slide the screen, etc. I've installed Schaps 4.31 best looking ROM to date. Haven't found another ROM that made me want to change.

even with no video drivers, it's still the best branded phone in the US. theres nothing better. (yet)

gqstatus0685 said:
"Video is not the biggest issue for me, but should I not buy the phone and support HTC who refuses to cooperate?"
With all due respect to all you guys complaining about video drivers.. STFU! already.
No one complained until one geeky ass dude bought it up. I have no problems playing my movies on my device or streaming it via orb.com. I get no lag and for god sakes it's a mobile phone not a computer. It surpasses most devices to date. I have no complaint about this phone. This is like my 40th something phone that I've had being that I work for AT&T and they provide me with devices. When the update comes people will still be *****ing about the video drivers. What exactly are you guys trying to watch? Live video feeds from Mars!?
Seriously get the phone you will not be disappointed. For the record my device does not lag when I slide the screen, etc. I've installed Schaps 4.31 best looking ROM to date. Haven't found another ROM that made me want to change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!!!!! I couldn't agree more with you!!!
I think that people expect to dial to Pluto with live feeds from the nethergalaxy and back!!!

gqstatus0685 said:
...I work for AT&T...
I've installed Schaps 4.31 best looking ROM to date. Haven't found another ROM that made me want to change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Awesome! So it is the official AT&T position that we should all install cooked ROMs on our Tilts? Is that what you tell your customers? And it won't void the warranty? That's fantastic news.
Can you please post your store number and employee ID number so your statement can be confirmed with AT&T corporate? Thanks!

*** Bye Bye my little Diamond - Hello E71 ***

Ok, ... here we go...
After several years wasting my time trying to modify, tuneup, accellerate, reorganize, customize and personalize my windows mobile devices (Xda Neo, Xda Orbit, Xda Terra) it is time to say goodbye to my one month old Xda Diamond...
It doesnt seem that microsoft will ever accept that their windows mobile is, ... just a windows 1.0 with better optics. no todayscreen replacement, tf3d, tf2d, spb ms, winterface, tochcommander has made things easier, just harder, slower and even more useless.
I thought, wow, as i heard about the new HTC Touch Diamond, waited 1 month for delivery and there it was, my Diamond, wonderful tf3d, opera, gsensor,...
Slow keyboard, Windows Mobile 6.1 (no OS), slow TF3d, slow Email, hard to use interface, and last but not least a (WOW) 900mAh battery, ... that enables me to use my Diamond ONE day! WOW again, and thank you HTC.
A main desire of human being is to cutomize, to PERSONALIZE their phone, to make it YOUR phone! When you look at a diamond you'll see the light breaking into many colors , ... when you look at your diamond you'll see BLACK and WHITE. Customizable STARTSCREEN, wooooooooho with a colorful background wallpaper, thats all.
I was expecting a wonderful , powerful multimedia mobile phone, great gaming capabilities like the iphone or something, ... but, whats there? WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER MOBILE, and OPERA, thats all... a slow camera, a slow HTC Album, a useless Streaming Media Client, MOSTLY unsupported games for NATIVE VGA resolution...
Good bye Diamond,
Good bye HTC,
Good bye Microsoft Windows Mobile 5,6,6.1,
Good bye TF3D,
Good bye NO great games,
Good bye XDA Developers Forum << you should be proud of yourselves, because it is YOU who are trying to improve these devices, ... and god damn, ... its hard work!
Thanks for all your tipps and tricks and Diamond Project 3.2 and Bepe 0.99d!
**************** AND HELLO NOKIA E71 ****************

??
I have to wonder why you even considered a diamond tbh..

you should get an iPhone

Nokia 1911 >>>> all

Surely you cant customise an E71 as much as a WM Device anyway?
I had an E71 for a while for work......My only comment on the device is "thank god i have a HTC Device!"

Are there people who hate the tf3d interface who don't realise that you can turn it off and then customise the homescreen on the device more than pretty much any other OS ?

thanks for your replies, ... dont forget please, i'm just sharing my thoughts in non-perfect english. I dont except that everyone thinks what i think.
and hey, its a gameboy too, whith hardware buttons and a dpad but has perfect professional business solutions that i need.

Rotkaeqpchen said:
.....A main desire of human being is to cutomize, to PERSONALIZE their phone, to make it YOUR phone! When you look at a diamond you'll see the light breaking into many colors , ... when you look at your diamond you'll see BLACK and WHITE. Customizable STARTSCREEN, wooooooooho with a colorful background wallpaper, thats all.
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?? You mean my phone shipped with a Hellboy theme that changes all the icons, puts really cool flames all over the clock, superimposes flames over my contacts pictures.... that came with my phone? I really don't think you've looked into this properly.
That said, these phones are for people who are prepared to invest time and effort into them to reap the rewards. It sounds like you have had enough of doing this, which is fine - i'm sure we will all give up one day

Monty Burns said:
It sounds like you have had enough of doing this, which is fine - i'm sure we will all give up one day
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely right

goodbye
hope you enjoy your E71...

danielch said:
you should get an iPhone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont like the iphone,i like hardware quertz / querty keyboards
ryousuke said:
goodbye
hope you enjoy your E71...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks im curious too.

rotkapqchen
nokia is living of people wich are thinking like redhat. but they will be lost in futur

Rotkaeqpchen said:
Ok, ... here we go...
After several years wasting my time trying to modify, tuneup, accellerate, reorganize, customize and personalize my windows mobile devices (Xda Neo, Xda Orbit, Xda Terra) it is time to say goodbye to my one month old Xda Diamond...
It doesnt seem that microsoft will ever accept that their windows mobile is, ... just a windows 1.0 with better optics. no todayscreen replacement, tf3d, tf2d, spb ms, winterface, tochcommander has made things easier, just harder, slower and even more useless.
I thought, wow, as i heard about the new HTC Touch Diamond, waited 1 month for delivery and there it was, my Diamond, wonderful tf3d, opera, gsensor,...
Slow keyboard, Windows Mobile 6.1 (no OS), slow TF3d, slow Email, hard to use interface, and last but not least a (WOW) 900mAh battery, ... that enables me to use my Diamond ONE day! WOW again, and thank you HTC.
A main desire of human being is to cutomize, to PERSONALIZE their phone, to make it YOUR phone! When you look at a diamond you'll see the light breaking into many colors , ... when you look at your diamond you'll see BLACK and WHITE. Customizable STARTSCREEN, wooooooooho with a colorful background wallpaper, thats all.
I was expecting a wonderful , powerful multimedia mobile phone, great gaming capabilities like the iphone or something, ... but, whats there? WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER MOBILE, and OPERA, thats all... a slow camera, a slow HTC Album, a useless Streaming Media Client, MOSTLY unsupported games for NATIVE VGA resolution...
Good bye Diamond,
Good bye HTC,
Good bye Microsoft Windows Mobile 5,6,6.1,
Good bye TF3D,
Good bye NO great games,
Good bye XDA Developers Forum << you should be proud of yourselves, because it is YOU who are trying to improve these devices, ... and god damn, ... its hard work!
Thanks for all your tipps and tricks and Diamond Project 3.2 and Bepe 0.99d!
**************** AND HELLO NOKIA E71 ****************
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe me you wont be missed. Have fun with your mmm... super customizable mmm Nokia???

Rotkaeqpchen said:
I dont like the iphone,i like hardware quertz / querty keyboards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont know why you get diamond if you like qwerty keyboards in the first place ???
my messegae in the upcming weeks would be: ***bye bye my little Diamond - Hello Touch HD***

well well. Nokia is great for phone. HTC = phone = ****. HTC for customize. I like it. Some kind of killing my time to upgrade, check website, upgrade and upgrade until the time I said. I have a life now. Than I'm going to say goodbye HTC.
Again
HTC = phone = **** ( sorry to say that )
HTC = killing my boring time = yes

Hey, It's the same thing I said when I ditched my ROKR E2 and bought an a1200, but then again... I found motorlafans, and couldn't help it... it's too good to be left alone.
Then it came to me that I REALLY needed some good phone for office business (which the A1200 performed well, but lacked wifi and 3G... and syncing was a hassle). When the iPhone came out, I said «nice, pretty... but it doesn't fit my philosophy...» which is customization... not only for themes and etc. but for speed, performance and suiting needs.
I saw the first iPhone killers and said, no way. But then the Diamond appeared: small, nice, useful... then I started researching the Touch (the first one) and discovered this site...
Seeing all the possibilities, I said: What the hell! Let's roll with HTC, the mother and father of 80% of OEM handsets that took a leap and started selling their own stuff, and with great design and TRUE innovation.
BUT, the Touch wouldn't be up to the cut: too much third party apps to make it run like I THOUGHT it should...
XPERIA made its teaser trailers, and I went numb... but it was a promise of long delays, Sony branding and a lot of zeroes on the pricetag.
The Diamond turned into a bliss... beyond all the iPhone wannabes, beyond usability paradigms, I remember thinking «WOW, that's a smart way of arranging a Home Screen, without clutter, with access to all the basics upfront, just like a superphone with a Clark Kent/Superman switch... (in reference to the TouchFlo3D taking all the basics to a new level and letting the powerhorse to sit in the back and enjoy the ride)».
Whence I've got it, I found that the TF3D needed some tweaking. I thought what I always think in such ocations: THIS CAN BE BETTER, SO WHY CAN'T HTC RELEASE IT ALREADY TWEAKED???
But then again, I'm now swapping for a US version, and the rollercoaster will start again... I'm positive that the same tweaked roms can be used with the same efficiency...
Time will tell. . .

boolean22 said:
Whence I've got it, I found that the TF3D needed some tweaking. I thought what I always think in such ocations: THIS CAN BE BETTER, SO WHY CAN'T HTC RELEASE IT ALREADY TWEAKED???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
now i have to agree on this one, HTC should tweaked some of windows registry before releasing it. for example, didnt they try the device when you try to reply an sms??? you could barely read your own message with that ONE line reply window
average consumer dont know what to do with this kind of problem, all they have in their mind is ''What the hell is this???''
heck we even need an unknown 3rd party app to adjust this small problem.
HTC please TEST your device before releasing it

It might be just mine, cause I use the fonts just one point above the minimum... but mine's got 2 lines... it's easier and the high res screen does a great job rendering minuscule fonts...

unwired4 said:
Are there people who hate the tf3d interface who don't realise that you can turn it off and then customise the homescreen on the device more than pretty much any other OS ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess so.. All the tf3d is a today plugin with some bells and whistles.
This device is really nice and fast when you diable that.

Rotkaeqpchen said:
Good bye NO great games,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and how does the e71 help there? I believe the e71 is even less customizable and has even less games available for it.

Just sold my kaiser

Well after about a year of use i just parted with my kaiser, i think i'm gonna cry.. time to move on to the G1 thread.

how much you sell it for? I'm selling mine so i can get the Crackberry Bold.

yea
i'm curious

sold it to my roomate for 200

HAW Haw!!! Your roomate got sloppy seconds!

sodenrox said:
Well after about a year of use i just parted with my kaiser, i think i'm gonna cry.. time to move on to the G1 thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How could you do that to us!? I thought what we had was special
Good luck with your G1 man!

sodenrox said:
Well after about a year of use i just parted with my kaiser, i think i'm gonna cry.. time to move on to the G1 thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good for you can you explain the motivation? i mean what can we get from G1 that is better than the kaiser?

udi1 said:
Good for you can you explain the motivation? i mean what can we get from G1 that is better than the kaiser?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably stunted machine currently but actually supported by Google with a lot of regular future upgrades -- drivers too! Can't beat that.

$200?!?!?
Jeez - I paid $50 for it new at AT&T last November when it came out (gotta LOVE those rebates).

NuShrike said:
Probably stunted machine currently but actually supported by Google with a lot of regular future upgrades -- drivers too! Can't beat that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder how it performs as far as smooth video playback is concerned (compared to the Kaiser using Windows Pocket Media Player 10.3). Not because I'm interested in getting a G1 (just like the Touch Pro, I believe it doesn't have the tilting screen of the TyTN II) but because I want to know just what the hardware is capable of in terms of processing power when proper drivers are used.

sold my tytn II also
It never worked as i hoped and expected. . .
my old ipaq 2210 did a better job showing video's and recorded tv shows.
that 's one big reason to sell for me.
the lag when ending a phonecall and screen rotating with sms did the rest.
I like the looks of the new touch HD but that seems also lagging and is not able to play video in its native resolution so it looks like more of the same but then in a higher resolution.
calling it HD and not been able to play native resolution video?
i lost my confidence in HTC for their lack in proper 2D and 3D drivers with my TYTN II, and will not travel the same road with their HD. . . . . .
A standard gsm will do for now, awaiting newer OS and Hardware.
XDA rocks tho!

Why I hate my Touch Pro

Well... This is a personal rant and I've already seen a lot of similar messages. It usually starts with an "my iPhone is better" and the answer always seems to be something along the lines of "ah, it sucks, our Touch Pro is way better, you'll be coming back crying", yadda-yadda-yadda. Here is my take - and I don't mean to offend anyone... I write this because I'm totally dissapointed with MY Touch Pro. Maybe you feel good about yours, it does whatever you needed/wanted, you simply love it.
iPhone is better. A heck of a lot better. I wish I had chose to buy one instead of this piece of crap that calls itself a "smartphone". Why? Well... I came to the world of Windows Mobile with a Tytn, a great all-round phone that had some problems but mostly did what it was supposed to do. The friendly guys and gals in this site managed to squeeze every ounce of life, speed, features and durability from it, making me totally love it. Custom ROMs made it faster and faster, added new and useful features... but... But then came "the new phones". Theoretically, they were faster, they had more memory, "they were better" in every single category. And Touch Pro was at the top, so, after lots of thought, loving its design and hating the fact I had to use an external GPS device with my Tytn, I splashed the cash and bought a brand new, shiny Touch Pro. More memory. More speed. Better screen. Better graphics. Better sound. Better GPS... NOT.
Even with custom ROMs, my Touch Pro crawls like a snail when compared with my Tytn. I mean it, and I tried more than 10 different ones (and I don't count different versions, but different cooks). The device simply seems unable to cope with its official interface, Touchflo 3D, whereas Manilla 2D ran screaming on the Tytn. Touch Pro has more Ram, theoretically making Opera usable. Goodbye ol' crashes of the Tytn, with Touch Pro I can finally browse the Internets happily! Or can I? Opera seems to totally suck compared to the iPhones Safari, and that doesn't come from an iPhone lover - I hate almost anything Apple ever created, including the iPhone. BUT... Whenever I'm with a friend of mine that has an iPhone, browsing the net through it is pure joy compared to the nightmare of Touch Pro. Appart from feeling more "fluid", iPhone is a lot faster when changing from portrait to landscape. Yeah, the online keyboard sucks, but so does the hardware keyboard of Touch pro compared to the one in my old Tytn (I know, "it's my opinion", never said it's a global rule).
The slow-as-hell problem applies to every single function or application in my Touch Pro. I'm with the afformentioned friend and we want to tweet something? Perfect. In ten seconds he's taken a snapshot in his iPhone, opened Twitter and posted a message, picture included. I'm still waiting for a Twitter app to load. We want to take some notes? He taps, writes, saves. In 5 secs. I'm taking out the stylus, for the interface buttons are too small for my fingers. I select Start>Utilities>Notes, wait for the Notes app to load, wait, wait, after it loads hunt the tiny "new" somewhere below the screen, wait for a new note to open, open the keyboard, wait for the screen to realign, type, wait for the characters to appear (and yes, I have applied the TX9 tweak but the keyboard is still painfully slow), save the note, close the keyboard, close the notes app, wait for the screen to realign. Ah, what a joy.
And the apps! Oh, those glorious apps! We have ten unusable RSS readers, 5 different commercial programs that try to improve our phones interface (each failing miserably in different ways), and... Well, that's it. We then have about 10 different calculators and stopwatches. And we call this, THIS, "a productivity device"? WTF can we do with this brick? What is it useful for? Taking photos? Even that is slow-as-hell compared with Tytn, after trying every-single-tweak. The subject of the photo has to be perfectly still, or else everything is blurry.
And the insult is that whenever I search for something new and useful for this brick, I find new fonts, new wallpapers, new manilla tweaks, some scripts or mini-apps that change the new WM6.5 chromes appearance! These are our "apps", when iPhone has new note-taking apps, new task managers, new VNC-like applications, emulators, games, anything... And yet we bash it as a kiddie phone and we hail out Touch Pro as a "serious" device. What's serious about a phone that cost me more than my wage (yeah, it costs -that- much in Greece where I live) and all that I can do with it is stare at slightly-different-colored-menues-than-the-default-ones? That's all there is to it?
Sorry for this, and sorry for coming out as an angry SOB, but I'm up to here with it. I'd really like somebody to come up and give me some advice or tips on how to make HTCs brick useful in some way, show me that I didn't actually throw my money away on a useless gadget. 'Cause I paid for an almighty device that in theory could do almost anything. It's as "smart" as my Tytn, it's slower than it in GPS and taking Pictures, there's no touch-friendly software for it (har-har, and it's called "Touch Pro", yeah, right)... WTF am I supossed to use it for? Paperweight?
I'm all ears people. Anyone wanting to tell me how they actually use their pricey device? Why you're happy with it and wouldn't change it for anything else? Does anyone -not- have the problems I have, and what did he do to avoid them? Am I totally wrong - and why?
Best regards
Ducklord

DAMN!!
What is the word or letter limit in XDA forums?
Our Touch Pro is way better, you'll be coming back crying, yadda-yadda-yadda.

See? See how disappointed I am? I'm mr. writesalot!
Best regards
Ducklord

Still love mines....iphone in my eyes is a childs toy just a bunch of flashy things to take your mind off what it lacks....Wow my iPhone can cook dinner for me with this app,but then again to MMS i have to pay another $600 to get a new model of the phone when I just bought a 3G 6 months ago.....and I get no warranty....Tell me how the iphone is better when everytime they add new things that should've been on the phone from the start you have to buy a new model to have?MMS,Video,Teethering

Honestly, you make a lot of good points.
I've had similar experiences with people using the iphone in the same ways. It may be nothing more than an "application launcher" but the applications actually do something useful, quickly.
I don't like the iphone. I don't like apple. As a matter of fact I actually hate both of them very much... but I see your point and I'm almost as fed up as you are.
I'm looking forward to hearing what people reply with.
The Microsoft store may alleviate some of this, hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. My plan is to wait for the next generation of phones, see if HTC still screws everyone over with drivers or other ass-hattery, and make a decision then.
Incidentally I have a Jornada 568 from 2002 that runs emulated games as well as my Fuze, plays Mp3s without stuttering (while using an external keyboard to write short stories with), plays video without tearing, and has a standard headphone jack. If I could I would just stick a phone in it and use that instead.

hey ducklord, sorry to hear about ur misery. I own a touch pro, and i find it to be quite perfect.. perhaps with a good set of ROM. Why don't you try out EnergyROM magic (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=530882)? It works like a charm for me...

Sparkz914 said:
Wow my iPhone can cook dinner for me with this app,but then again to MMS i have to pay another $600 to get a new model of the phone when I just bought a 3G 6 months ago
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what the afformentioned friend told me, "no-mms" is a problem of AT&T or some other provider that offers the iPhone in the States. To prove it, he sent me an MMS "giving me the finger". He's on Cosmote (Greek Provider), and uses a totally un-tweaked, locked, out-of-the-box iPhone.
Sparkz914 said:
.....and I get no warranty....Tell me how the iphone is better when everytime they add new things that should've been on the phone from the start you have to buy a new model to have?MMS,Video,Teethering
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I told you, no-mms is not an issue. Tethering, if you mean "having access to the Internets from your laptop through your phone" -IS- a problem, witch though can be solved by buying a USB/PCMCIA/Something GPRS modem. For about 30 euros. On the other hand, not 30, not 50, not 400 euros can make my Touch Pro something more useful than a brick. You mean, you REALLY use tethering all the time? You REALLY use video conference? The rates are sky-high here in Greece - 10 video calls would cost the same as the damn phone! Ah, and here's another point where iPhone (and almost any other device) is better: was your Touch Pro usable out of the box? Want me to point you to other posts by other users that say how much it sucked until they installed a custom Rom (and thus lost its warranty)? THIS is how a device is supposed to work? By exchanging its official warranty with a custom-cooked ROM, created by people that, up to a point, are GUESSING what-should-work (and they're doing a great job at that)... For Baal's shake, cooks, developers and lots of users are prowling the insides of other phones to find drivers witch they'll be able to tweak so that our damn brick will be able to play videoclips and long-forgotten-emulators like 3-year-old devices do! I mean, gosh, HTC should PAY XDA Developers for making their phone bearable! But, ofcourse, you are happy... No video, no speed, sluggish loading and typing, godawful GPS, no useful apps whatsoever... But you have tethering. Somehow, I don't quite believe you.
skyau said:
I've had similar experiences with people using the iphone in the same ways. It may be nothing more than an "application launcher" but the applications actually do something useful, quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AAAND, ladies and gentleman, that's the whole point. Even with all the other problems, IF, and thats the most important thing, IF our phone had some really useful AND easy-to-use apps, that other phones didn't, or IF it excelled in some way, the situation would be bearable. Its not just that its hardware sucks, its insulting that we can't run (and use) stuff on it!
And please, if any programmer is reading this, the place is called XDA Developers. Please, DEVELOP something. No, tweaking the interface isn't "developing", it's "tweaking". And although I don't know anything about programming, I'd be more than happy to "develop" graphics for a useful app.
Best regards
Ducklord

ducklord said:
the place is called XDA Developers. Please, DEVELOP something. No, tweaking the interface isn't "developing", it's "tweaking".
Best regards
Ducklord
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahaha took the words out of my mouth... they say that WM has thousands of apps but from what i see its, 1000 half-done interfaces / 5000 tweaks, customizers, and "fixes" and 50 somewhat of apps ready to use that does at least something other than what the phone could already do but wanted to make it look "pretty" like a new contact manager, dialer, etc.
on the other hand the iphone has their own job search app, NBA play by play app, and more things other than what the phone could already do in the first place
im worried about "Marketplace" as well cuz there are multiple screen resolutions, models, and kinds of WM devices that the compatibility will not be all there when it comes to all the apps

I want to clarify that as unimpressed with the Fuze as I am, I am more than impressed and grateful for all the work done for it by the people here on XDA.
I'm glad to have a repository of software, knowledge, and development like this.
It makes me wonder what could be done with a machine that didn't need to be fixed or flashed right out of the box.
My problems with this phone stem from AT&T, HTC themselves, and to a lesser extent Microsoft. I appreciate that there's such a supportive community cleaning up these three company's messes.

skyau said:
I want to clarify that as unimpressed with the Fuze as I am, I am more than impressed and grateful for all the work done for it by the people here on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm grateful for XDA, but not for "all the work they've done for Touch Pro". No, I'm not whining or disregarding their work, it's just that I had the idea they really squeezed the life out of my Tytn, but they give me the impression that they've just touched the surface of Touch Pro.
Best regards
Ducklord

Patience
May be you just need some patience. How long has the TyTn been out compared to the TP? As for me, I have very little experience with the iPhone but my Fuze(unlocked and on T-Mobile) has very little delay in any program. I am running 1 of the best ROMs (imho), NRG's wonderful magic series.

who cares about the iphone..i just got the palm pre for my business device and man its such a relief..i still have my fuze but find myself using it less and less..its so nice to have a device not have so many issues..and just work the way i need it to..and i know webOS is still young but man i think its gonna be the next big thing..ill never give up on windows mobile though...it may be not up to the times in GUI but its an old bull and knows what its doing..but for now i need something that works with the times so my Pre is my main device for now..im still flashing every new rom NRG puts out tho on my fuze lol and ive gotten to tap into my linux side with rooting my Pre and doing all the hacks

NRGs ROMs are what my Touch Pro runs, and although quite fast in the TouchFlo 3D department, loading and running apps takes a lot of time for my taste. And just think that NRGs is one of the fastest ROMs but, still, Touch Pro can't match the usage speed of Tytn (I mean in the interface department), not even counting the 5 to 15 seconds for an app to load (5 to 10 seconds for the camera? The subject of the photo will be dead and gone until the snap is taken!). And even if you put up with this sluginess... Where are the apps? After posting the 1st message I did a visit to "the usual places" to see what's new in WM world... The joy is unimaginable! Three new versions of the same 'ol SPB software, a "smart calculator" and a stopwatch... Great...
As for the Pre, well, when your wage is arround 700-900 euros and a phone like those we're talking about costs from 600 to 1200 euros... Let's just say I'm stuck with this brick for two-three more years. Ahrgh... Teh pains...
Best regards
Ducklord
PS: How, tell me, HOW hard would it be to create two simple, decent apps, one for taking Notes and one for managing Tasks? I'd be in heaven if I found two, just these two apps, that loaded fast, where Touch Friendly and could sync with Outlook. Or some GTD apps. Or some productivity ones. That could sync with our PC. Heck, I bought a WINDOWS MOBILE device so as to sync to my WINDOWS PC. And an Apple phone has more apps that sync with outlook. And better.
PS2: Have you realized how shafted we are from anyone and any company? Evernote for WM is the only decent notes-taking app I found. And, SPECIFICALLY in WM, you have to have a data connection active to use it. No local notes and syncing later. No local storage, no local search. After we payed one wage for out phone, we have to pay another one in data costs to use it! Ack! De Happines! De Joy!

have you tried thumbcal? it is a finger friendly GUI and it replaces the wm standard calender and tasks and i believe you can take notes down too..and so if you have an exchange server setup (i use mail2web) then itl sync everything and you can sync outlook to your exchange too and there you have device to pc seemless syncing and then i used this regedit whch i made to use thumbcal when you tap a shortcut that uses a hard wired shortcut (like tf3d)

yah once htc shifted from TI OMAP to Qualcomm MSMxxxx processors things went downhill...

I dunno I have a sprint touch pro and on mighty rom wm6.5 and I love it. It's as fast as my gf's iphone. My phone is alot better than hers except playing music. Plus, I can't stand looking at the screen of iphone! The resolution is really bad and I get a headache!!

I dunno why you have to wait to load a note program because it doesn't have any loading for me. I can write and save in no time. Also, when you open the keyboard there is a shortcut for notes. You can always assign your talk button as a note program too.

I'll admit that there are some delays when switching apps, and some apps take longer to load than others.
You do realize that there are other apps out there besides what's on this site don't you? There are literally thousands of apps out there. Look at Handandgo for example.
My ROM has PocketNotepad cooked in. As soon as I open it, it opens me to a blank notepad and I can start typing right away. It opens in 1-2 seconds for me, which I think is reasonable.
I don't use tasks, so I can't really speak for that side of it.

i dont find energyroms particularly fast, not sure why everyone says its fast. it's definitely not faster compared to a tweaked lite rom. but i guess with the eye candy and full suite of apps, it's relatively fast.
I tried launching notepad and it took less than 2 secs to be able to write a new note. if it's that slow on your phone, your phone obviously has issues.

Partially agree
On the first few days I was thinking the same because I've been waiting for a phone like this for ages and here in Romania it costs more then double of an average salary so you can imagine that people get scared once they give out so much money on a single device which doesn't behave as it should. In fact it has quite a few bugs but still wouldn't change it for the iPhone...
Notes application starts in about 2 seconds for me and energyRom is decently fast - I wish I could remove that colourful taskbar though because I hate it and no one gave me an answer how to change it. Even tried one method and had to reflash the device. Anyway...
The GPS problem pisses me off because I thought it's as good as the one from the Diamond but turns out to be awful. I use IGO8 and it sucks. It locks on my position in about 10 minutes. Not good at all.
The camera is not bad, music is decent, but those aren't things that smart-phones are famous for...
Overall I am happy with this device, or should I say I have no other choice then to be happy with it and would like to thank the people from XDA Developers for their time and for correcting the errors that Microsoft should had corrected. Waiting for new apps and as ducklord said - I can help designing some of the apps so if any developer needs design, we're here. I'm not good at programming though.
Bela