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QualComm MSM7200 Processor has non-functional video processor

Not sure if you all have seen this. Apparently, the processor in the Wings has a special chip for handling video. If HTC delivered the driver, it would increase the responsiveness of all video, including the interface and gaming.
For more info, check out HTCClassAction.org (which also has info on a possible upcoming update for the TTyNII which may include WM6.1, I'd expect they'll do the same for the S730).
source

that sounds TERRIBLE!
so basically our htc wings could be MUCH faster with the right drivers??????
WTF

That's correct.

Do you need the better proof? )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJWAu6IRe4

According to the datasheet on the processor, there's some other stuff... like TV out, that probably isn't even wired. Man... what a sham!

that makes me really mad...
is there a chance that htc will release the drivers for faster graphics and ATI chip support?
or is there a way a ROM can be cooked which makes these things work?

I'm busy getting those drivers. See my post in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1876110#post1876110

Surfboomerang said:
I'm busy getting those drivers. See my post in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1876110#post1876110
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good luck with that! You may have better chances by calling ATI and telling them you're a developer working on contract with HTC.

mm
the more people that email Ati, HTC, Qualcomm about this the bigger the chance is of getting a response.
I ahev also mailed ATi asking about this but never got a reply

I Couldn't Believe this.

So i was in school today, and in study hall i was playing with my friend laurens Verizon Voyager.
I was playing around noticing how great it played music/video and the graphics and such. How clear the screen was, and all different things like that...
So i turn the phone around to take a picture of me making a silly face...
This is where i saw somthing.
On the back, in a pretty small logo. It Said Qualcomm.
So aprently the voyager used a Qualcomm chipset...
So i did some reseach
the voyager uses a qualcomm MSM6250 Chipset.
I found comparisons between the MSM6250 Chipset and the MSM7xxx Chipsets
According to qualcomm the 7 series is supposed to be up to 4x Faster, Smoother, and Longer in performance, graphics/video, and battery.
So can someone please explain to me.. Why a Verizon voyager can clearly outpass my Att Tilt.
Thanks

htcclassaction.org

Well, I'd say "DRIVERS!!!", but I'm kinda careful with that now.
I'd say that until you test your kaiser under same conditions in that same room, you shouldn't be that dissapointed. Under good lighting conditions Kaiser's cam is a pretty damn good one.
As we're seen from the latest comparison from mobilereview (there's a thread somewhere), kaiser's GDI drawing (scrolls, pages, etc) is the same as any other high end pda.
Not trying to say that Voyager can't be better in some places than the Kaiser with no drivers.. just trying to stop the trend of blaming everything on drivers and bashing Kaiser at every turn.

DarkDvr said:
As we're seen from the latest comparison from mobilereview (there's a thread somewhere), kaiser's GDI drawing (scrolls, pages, etc) is the same as any other high end pda.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you kidding ?
I own a HTC Prophet(very old device, OMAP 200Mhz), a HTC Touch(new device, same OMAP 200Mhz) and a HTC Kaiser(new device, Qualcomm 400Mhz). I also have friends with Eten X500(old device, Samsung 400Mhz) and ASUS P535(new device, Intel 520Mhz)
The GDI sucks big time on the Kaiser, it's worse than any of those mentioned above. By worse, i mean A LOT WORSE. I don't know where you read that it's the same, maybe the same with the rest of the gimped HTC crap(Qualcomm based).

Actually, I came to realise that it's a lot more complicated than "ZOMG d00d my Kaiser is da ****, it's a lot worse than calculator my grandma used in school".
Look at the vids and benchmarks here:
http://translate.google.com/transla...tc-drivers.shtml&langpair=ru|en&hl=en&ie=UTF8

TytnII Vs Imate 9502

I have just been given a Imate 9502 on a plan( ok i have to pay for it over a period of time)and as this uses the same chipset as the the TytnII i thought this would be interesting, also keep in mind the Imate 9502 uses a 640x480 VGA screen..have completed some benchmarking using VSbenchmark..
Imate9502 TYTNII
Graphic test1 1717 1101
Other test2 1913 1875
Jpeg test3 3098 2323
Games test4 1099 1278
Sound test5 1944 0668
Total Score 1954 1449
Very interesting indeed, only score which TytnII wins on is the Games test.But as the 9502 is running at higher res than the TytnII and getting higher scores does this mean Imate have fixed the qualcomm issue????..
movie play back is a breeze stock... will run tests later using diff players

Just from those numbers I'm pretty sure nothing is really fixed. Check out the score difference from the P6500 to the Kaiser
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=381254
I've seen variation even between Kaisers of a few hundred points just depending on ROMs, software and a myriad of little things that can affect the overall score.

Are you taking into account that the res is double that of the TytnII,also according to VSbenchmark's web page,the scores that the 9502 got are lil over mid way compared to a tytnII having a reported score of 1444 admitedly there was a KAISER on there with a slightly higher score but it still wasnt anywhere near the 9502.
The reason i reported the TytnII score and not the KAISER from VSbenchmark was MY TytnII got sim Scores.
Another point of interest is the 9502 has VGA out,which i hooked up to the phillips 50in LCD and works a treat.
also will down load SPD benchmark and will report those scores

Technically, the resolution is 4 times that of the Kaiser if you care comparing pixel count. There are 4 times as many pixels on a 640x480 screen than there is on a 320x240 screen.

Hi mav42,
Could you please report what free program memory (RAM) you get immediately after a soft reset. In some reviews I have read it is just over 32 MB which in my opinion is very low for a 128 MB installed device. For example my TyTn II gives close to 70 MB of free RAM immediately after a soft reset.
Shall be obliged for your response as I am seriously considering getting one myself but the memory issue is holding me back.
Regards

Are we sure that benchmark is even measuring the kind of stuff the Tytn II is known to be missing? I thought someone pointed out, the last time comparisons were drawn with these benchmarks, that the accelerated hardware wasn't actually being tested at all.
Someone (who knows what they're doing) needs to get hold of a rom for the 9502 and start analysing it... Chainfire, where art thou?

Boinng said:
Are we sure that benchmark is even measuring the kind of stuff the Tytn II is known to be missing? I thought someone pointed out, the last time comparisons were drawn with these benchmarks, that the accelerated hardware wasn't actually being tested at all.
Someone (who knows what they're doing) needs to get hold of a rom for the 9502 and start analysing it... Chainfire, where art thou?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im sorry Im just a idiot heres me thinking that both these devices use the same chipset doh....wait a minute they do.......all i did was compare these device's using the same benchmarks at the same time to see if there was any major diff,report it and work from there....and in this case there is a diff .also even if stated by Bong that these benchmarks dont measure accelerated hardware theres still a diff between these 2 devices using software rendition

mav42 said:
Im sorry Im just a idiot heres me thinking that both these devices use the same chipset doh....wait a minute they do.......all i did was compare these device's using the same benchmarks at the same time to see if there was any major diff,report it and work from there....and in this case there is a diff .also even if stated by Bong that these benchmarks dont measure accelerated hardware theres still a diff between these 2 devices using software rendition
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant no offence, sorry it appears I've caused some. My question was genuine - if the benchmark doesn't test the imageon features etc, then that would explain the relatively small difference in the tests, even if the 9502's video is miles better in use.
I'm well aware of the shared chipset, and that's why I'm so interested in a developer getting hold of the ROM and extracting any drivers they can.

Can you post a TCPMP or Core player video playback benchmark? Thanks

srmz said:
Hi mav42,
Could you please report what free program memory (RAM) you get immediately after a soft reset. In some reviews I have read it is just over 32 MB which in my opinion is very low for a 128 MB installed device. For example my TyTn II gives close to 70 MB of free RAM immediately after a soft reset.
Shall be obliged for your response as I am seriously considering getting one myself but the memory issue is holding me back.
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok after doing a soft reset
total:84.41mb...........in use 50.26mb..........FREE 34.15mb
hope that helps

This is exactly why we need a 9502 section on here! From what I have read so far (only on mobile phone consumer forums mind, so no techies), the major issues are:
1. Complete lack of free RAM meaning only one or two apps can be run simultaneously.(Unconfirmed how much this issue is related to Telstra ROM/bloatware).
2. Is not natively SDHC compliant and although the WM6 SDHC drivers work, they disable the wifi functionality of the device.
Both of these things I think could be remedied by XDA-Dev geniuses.

I just want to know does the 9502 suffer from the I-hit-a-button-but-nothing-happens-unless-i-hold-it-down-for-a-few-seconds-then-it-clicks syndrom that the Tilt has?

starstreak said:
I just want to know does the 9502 suffer from the I-hit-a-button-but-nothing-happens-unless-i-hold-it-down-for-a-few-seconds-then-it-clicks syndrom that the Tilt has?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not come accross this problem..........so far....

aww man. if that SOny X1 wasn't coming out, I would buy the 9502. That and not being VGA is my only complaint with the Tilt I have. I miss the VGA and I can't stand it how sometimes the screen or key just wont register presses unless you hold it down.

starstreak said:
aww man. if that SOny X1 wasn't coming out, I would buy the 9502.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony X1 doesn't have a jogdial and OK button on left side, I guess all TyTN users got used to have that... 9502 does have those

Is there going to have a Imate 9502 Section?
I too holding a imate

I would really appreciate if somebody could post the XIP and some of the other graphics related dlls (DDI.dll, dependencies, etc). ROM dump would be nice.
So far, I have the 9502 ahi2dati.dll from some other thread and it's the same as the KS20 so that's a good comparison point, depending on how you want to look at it.

I would really appreciate if somebody could post the XIP and some of the other graphics related dlls (DDI.dll, dependencies, etc). ROM dump would be nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree! if someone gives this dump would be very nice .
im also working on this and i need some dlls. XIP etc.
a ROM dump would be great!

qualcomm chipset isn't good????

hi....
im highly keen on gettin the diamond2 when it comes out (due to the guaranteed free upgrade to 6.5, and for under £400 there isn't much else that rivals it (correct me on this tho if i'm unaware of any rivals!))
BUT. doing research on the chipset i've heard and seen all sorts of posts about bad drivers for the qualcomm chipset that was used in the first touch diamond, about how the video performance was terrible, and how they underperformed compared to much older chips!
So........does anyone know whether the video performance of this diamond2 will be better/whether HTC have fixed these issues/whether the qualcomm chipset in the diamond2 is different to the one in the 1st diamond, or if its been updated or what?
basically.......is the phone going to work as expected! i currently have an ipaq 614c with an intel chipset, PXA270. I mean...is the qualcomm chipset in the diamond2 better??
iv'e also heard that the htc touch HD solved a lot of the problems or something because it had better drivers? if this is true.............the specs on the htc website show the touchHD as having a Qualcomm MSM 7201A. Whereas the Htc touch diamond2 has a Qualcomm MSM 7200A. Now..........whats the difference. Is the 7201A the decent correct chipset with good video performance (if all of the above is true), and the 7200 the crappy one??
until i have answers to all these questions.....i won't be able to focus on university

I think the 7201A is the a 7200 with certain features that would infrnge some US patents deactiviated.
Could be wrong?

The MSM7201A is just like the MSM7200, Graphics wise. Only difference is that HTC adds a "driver" for their so-called 3D...
Look into the Blackstone forums to see for yourself about the performance of the MSM7201A chipset. Then decide if you're still going to buy it. (I wouldn't, although i've got a Blackstone)

no MSM7200a is the world version
which include the ability to recoard vga at 30fps and the world 3g frequescies
MSM7201A is the american version which don't include the 30fps video capture because of a patent by broadcom and it use the american 3g frequescies
this is pure chip hardware and dont have anything to do with what
drivers htc provide

Rudegar said:
no MSM7200a is the world version
which include the ability to recoard vga at 30fps and the world 3g frequescies
MSM7201A is the american version which don't include the 30fps video capture because of a patent by broadcom and it use the american 3g frequescies
this is pure chip hardware and dont have anything to do with what
drivers htc provide
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm I live in France, bought a Touch HD, and got a MSM7201a chipste on my device from Orange France. Nothing related to the american market here.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I can do 3G with my phone so...

The last a in MSM7201a and MSM7200a indicates that it's a 528 MHz version, without a it's 400 MHz. I've read that HTC went back to the MSM7200a version because of the poor video recording performance on the MSM7201a chip. So, I guess it may be older, but it's better. That's why both the D2 and the Pro2 get that one.

I guess the chipset could be allright. But HTC hasn't been all that good in providing proper drivers (so it seems).
Although I'm beginning to wonder if the Qualcomm chipsets are actually able to do good 2d and 3d graphics.
For example, when comparing it to a Samsung Omnia with a 624mhz Marvell it's really a world of difference. Ofcourse the Omnia has a smaller resolution (wqvga instead of vga) but it's much much faster than my Diamond (in about everything).
Especially when playing a movie or something with quite a high resolution (divx for example). It's much faster than the Diamond, and usually plays everything without any problem. Even compared to a Diamond with Coreplayer (for the Qualcomm video support).
So.. in short. I would not quite put all my hope on HTC delivering some magical drivers which increase performance a lot.
I rather think the Diamond2 will be much like the original Diamond. But with extra software features like a new TouchFLO 3D and some extra/other hardware features.
Looking at HTC's track record I doubt 'new high performance qualcomm drivers' is not one of the new software features.
edit: Btw, obviously don't take my word on this. I'd say if you are interested in a Diamond2, wait for it to be available and give it a nice test run. Check it out for yourself and see if you like it and think the speed is good enough for you. In the end that's all what counts, if you are happy with your/the device or not!

Like you said , the Omnia is only 400x240 with a CPU clocked 100mhz higher. The msm7201a in the diamond is running slower and has to push X2.74 more pixels! (and 3x more on the wvga phones). it has nothing to do with drivers (the majority doesn't seem to understand that) now regarding video perf that's another story. Coreplayer support HW accel on the Omnia (PXA cpu) but not on the Qualcomm chips (the Qtv mode is only a hack to accel DDdraw overlay) Only
WMP/HTc album support HW accel (and only on MP4 files).

I'm certainly not expecting any dramatic speed enhancements from the D2. And like I said, the difference between the 00 and the 01 is, as I read elsewhere, the video recording speed, not the playback.

Take a look here
http://www.glbenchmark.com/compare.jsp
Clearly HTC devices for some reason perform worse than 3 year old devices. These new devices will be no different as they are based on the same hardware. HTC are a joke.

So whats a good handy with good 2D/3D performance and Windows Mobile on it?

So...
Moby2kBug said:
So whats a good handy with good 2D/3D performance and Windows Mobile on it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the toshiba G01 with an 1Ghz Snapdragon CPU,
the HTC "Superstar" with Nvidia chipset
the HTC "Star" with Snapdragon CPU
the Acer F1 with an 800Mhz Snapdragon CPU and an ATI co-processor
Add if I missed one
All of them should run 3D-games etc. well
I would take the F1 from Acer, because it's sleek and elegant designed and only priced at 560€.
take a look: http://translate.google.com/transla...apdragon-cpu.html&sl=nl&tl=en&history_state0=

I've been playing around with Coreplayer by watching TV programs recorded by Vista media centre from a network share. It plays the video at 31 fps and looks absolutely stunning.
Also, screen rotation from landscape to portrait is instantaneous.
I am not too worried about the chipset when I see this performance.

It records video in VGA no problems and plays back no problem - to me, it has no problem with Video

From what I have read the difference between the 7201a and the 7200a is the fab process: 90 vs 65. So the 7201a should be slightly more power efficient (although if it is only the CPU I don't know what the net difference will be).
Why they switched is a mystery. At first I assumed that it was related to their supply side situation: They have plants that can build 7200a and rather than revampt them, they released a few devices that use the 7200a rather than the 7201a.

Ingore that one - the Topaz and Rhodium each have the 7201a. The 7200a was a typo.

pidsw said:
From what I have read the difference between the 7201a and the 7200a is the fab process: 90 vs 65.
...snip...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope That's what the "a" is for:
7200/7201 (not sure it exists): 90 nm process
7200a/7201a: 65 nm process
the 7201(if it exists)/7201a peculiarity is really due to a US patent. and this peculiarity is a downgrade...So if you have the choice between a 7200 and 7201, pick the 7200 if video recording is important to you, else pick randomly (or the cheaper ;-) ).

Whilst it may not be the fastest device in the world, for a 'Joke' company the reviews of the touch diamond2 are pretty good wouldnt you say?
Its a phone by the way!
PS. My touch diamond 2 has the 7200a, it says so in the 'Device information'

I don't have performance problems....movies in full DVD resolution are playing smooth, GPS lag isn't present, as on TD1...so I am copmpletely satisfied..

Actually speaking of GPS, it seems to work much much better on the TD2 than any others i have tried it against (kaiser/touch pro 2) I actually have close to full reception in buildings that the others wouldnt pick up on.
Video playback works great in media player with .mp4 files.
And the whole thing is just really responsive and fast at a stock rom vs the kaiser and touch pro 2.

why old processor?

why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc

t3rm3y said:
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because Microsoft only support the "old" snapdragon .

why apple customers don't ask them the same question , they use the same GPU as what is in 3gs a year ago ,
a second thing wp7 is developed on the snapdragon which is more than enough for now with it's improved drivers and direct x 9 support , it will perform even 2x better than a DHD with 8255 processor

t3rm3y said:
but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
QUOTE]
Sorry I'm the one that had to break the news, but there is always something better coming...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

hoss_n2 said:
why apple customers don't ask them the same question , they use the same GPU as what is in 3gs a year ago ,
a second thing wp7 is developed on the snapdragon which is more than enough for now with it's improved drivers and direct x 9 support , it will perform even 2x better than a DHD with 8255 processor
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 and 10char

t3rm3y said:
why have they put an old model processor in there? why not the MSM8255?
i am holding out for a little bit, i am due an upgrade now, but dont want to rush into buying this phone if something better is coming.
Plus want to see what modding can be done to the software / themes, 3rd party apps etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an HD7, it is lag free and very responsive, I think the processor will be up to the task as long as the coding is optimal.

Because having the next most powerful processor isn't important. It doesn't matter what kinda specs a device is running s long as the device runs well. Apple has proved that.
And from what I have seen, MP7 runs beautifully.

Lorddeff07 said:
Because having the next most powerful processor isn't important. It doesn't matter what kinda specs a device is running s long as the device runs well. Apple has proved that.
And from what I have seen, MP7 runs beautifully.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True that.

Old processor?
Maybe this is a bad news to you, but it's good to me cause of my hd2.

I probably would have been crying about the same thing, if technology was growing by leaps and bounds. But its not right now, technology is kinda stagnate as of lately. Yes, the HD7 has the same processor as its predecessor the HD2, but its not a bad thing. especially now that the new rom has came out for the HD2, it feels faster than ever (you can go on the HD2 and Leo boards to attest for yourself). Another thing to remember, is that the new Windows Phone 7, is not an OS that needs a 2Ghz processor to run buttery smooth. I think that we are used to the PC ideology that the next thing should have a higher number than the last, in order to be considered and respectable upgrade. But even those Intel and AMD processors, reached their, threshold for raw computing power (for now) and the companies are now refining their codes, and drivers, in order to utilize and maximize peak performance out of what they already have. (That's why 4Ghz desktop processors aren't mainstream yet)
Another thing is the WP7 is standardized with base set requirements for internal specs. I truly doubt that you'll find a noticeable difference between all the launch devices behavior with the OS, because of their processors. The mail screen might open up a little quicker on one device, but again, that could be a driver code magic for the display adapter in a particular phone, so the one that "wins" in our mind, should have been the "newer, speedier" processor but because of the refinement and more developed drivers, the one that displayed the inbox quicker was the "older" processor. (I hope you guys got that...lol)
So what I'm trying to say at the end of the day, is it really doesn't matter about the processor spec, because whats inside the HD7 is more than plenty to run the OS and its apps very very nicely.