Related
Guys, this was a response to a post from me and my subsequent response to it posted in the XannyTech ROM thread. I thought it would be best to open this to a wider community as I am sure many feel as I do, but are unsure how to better the operation as it currently stands.
As I specify at the end of the post, I am definitely NOT attacking the chefs, just trying to get the best possible solution for the vast majority of people and giving my reasoning behind it.
dafunk2 said:
Mate, I don't agree with you.
I know that these are things told and told again.....but:
- Did you install additional software?
- Did you try to uninstall any additional software?
- Did you try to do an Hard Reset?
- Did you do an Hard Reset after Flashing?
- Did you try to re-flash the rom?
- Did you try to download again the rom?
You can see by other people's feedbacks that this rom is probably the best, performing and stable one, and you cannot of sure tell that this rom is "bits and pieces untested in it", because the cooker and his team of betatesters of course cannot test anything under ANY circumsance and ANY configuration and ANY additional software installed and ANY...and ANY...and ANY....
I feel to tell you these few words because I don't like who don't respect other's hard work. Did you noticed how many releases is Xanny doing? And every release is better then the last...so if you are experiencing problems or probably bugs, please give respect to the cooker and explain in a civil and constructive way wich the bugs are, and you can be sure that the cooker will fix as soon as possible.
Keep in mind that the rom MUST be valued "nude and crude" like the cooker post it, and not after installed a miriad of sofwares in it.
Maybe it's not your case.......
.....but I'm bored to see stupid posts like your.
Escuse me in advance if I'm too "direct" with you, I respect anyone that respect other people.
Ciao from Italy
dafunk
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Click to collapse
OK, firstly I take no offence to you being direct - it's sometimes the best way to be
Secondly, I have voiced my issues in a constructive and respectful manner within this thread before and many others from many other Chefs, but with little or sometimes no response.
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
I can't emphasise enough the respect I have for these people, but I do think that we are getting more quantity than quality. There are a number of issues (see bug tracker) with some of the later ROM's which quiet frankly were broken as a result of a new recipe.....working before and broken after is breaking the golden rule of a new software release!
At the end of all this I urge people to understand what I'm saying and not take it as an attack against the Chefs as this is most definitely NOT what this is.
oh and to add, I have tried flashing via USB and flashing via SD Card, and hard resetting a number of times after flash. As for not installing any software....I'm struggling to see the relevance of that suggestion. Do you think HTC test TouchFlo3D against every piece of software developed for the platform they implement their software on to check for compatibility? No.....what they do is adhere to coding standards and practices using certified API's and the like to make sure that 99% of the time everything should be fine.
Now I'm not suggesting the same level of testing for Chefs, but what I AM saying is that if these ROM's are basically tweaked stock ROM's (which the newer Leo ROMs are now it's live) then surely the inherent testing has been done and issues should be minimal. That being the case, why are there so many posts on cooked ROM threads stating issues?
Again, not being antagonistic, just trying to point something out. I appreciate the chefs, but I still want my phone to operate.
I can just offer my noob experience, I have encountered apps made for winmo6.1 to cause problems for winmo6.5. and often times custom made mods by fellow users such as tweaks and graphics, mods to tf3d etc often causes problems, maybe not for first release, but when a new piece of software comes, like now manila 2.5 and so many new releases, what was perfect yesterday causes major bugs today.
And as far as cooking a rom, i have had such thing happened to me that when just updating one package in the rom, the whole thing will not start, just a newer version of the same app. So every new sys, every new manila edition, every new modification is very possible to cause some new conflict, noticeable or not.
I think if we want to have the latest software availible on the market, you will never have that officially, then this is the way to go, and there will always be some sort of conflicts minor or major, the good thing is chefs that are willing to work to improve, workaround fix etc, i like xanny, and miri and several others who are present in their threads and actually communicating trying to solve the issues, some just post a rom and you wont hear from them again until next release. But everything here is from free will, you chose to flash a rom you do take a risk. But we have some good backup tools and autoconfig tools so flashing is not so very timeconsuming
But i have had stockroms freeze on me, lagging and very irritable, but hey i am glad being able to have custom roms, every chef bring their own flavor to the phone, and if you dislike all you can always start cooking yourself then you can twist and turn it however you prefer
Thanks for your input - I was fearing a bit of a flame war when I posted so I'm happy that the first person to reply was a mature one
I suppose you are right from the point of view that having the latest software means that the likelihood is that it will not be officially tested and verified. I just wish that I wasn't always "waiting for the next problem" to occur.
If I was really bothered I suppose I'd go back to Stock and make do, but then I'd CAB my phone up to breaking point with tweaks! - lose lose situation perhaps
the way i look at it, we should only be using stock ROMs. Cookers then put in the time to create great ROMs for us with the features of newer devices, allowing us to get more out of our devices. They ask for little in return, so i dont really think its fair to criticise their products, because were it not for them, we'd be using just stock ROMs. Just my way of looking at it
Wiggz said:
I suppose we have to understand that:
these guys are doing this for nothing. I do!
these guys put a lot of effort and time into it - I do!
that these guys and testers cannot iron out every bug - I do!
Now,Chefs must understand a few bits and pieces also.
If they are going to cook ROM's then:
they need to be VERY precise about the issues they KNOW are resident
they need to understand that people willing to use these ROM's still want a fully functioning phone
they need to understand that fixing a bug in ROMv1 by releasing ROMv2 is all well and good, UNLESS it breaks something that was working fine in ROMv1 (often the case)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are providing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one or go back to stock.
I'm pretty positive they understand we want a fully functional phone, not sure what your point is here.
If you don't like the new version of a ROM then don't upgrade, or try it then go back to the old version.
Although you say you appreciate what they're doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...
scotland101 said:
It seems you don't really understand the 3 points you made or else you wouldn't have made this post.
No-one is forcing you to use any ROM other than stock. And telling the chefs how to make their ROMs is just stupid, it's a completely optional service that these people are doing. Why should they be "VERY precise"? It's their ROM, if you don't like it, get another one.
Although you say you appreciate what their doing, you come across as ungrateful that their free service is not up to your standards...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your point, and I can wholeheartedly see how my points could be perceived as aggressive towards chefs.
However, what I am trying to say is that whilst I understand I "don't need to use" these ROMs...why would anyone go to the time and effort to create a ROM if:
they didn't want people to use them, and
they didn't want it to be the best ROM out there with the fewest issues
I am simply saying that a few chefs are content with spewing out ROM after ROM without actually realising that people would prefer a recent-ish build release which was stable, and fast over a brand new ROM which was buggy.
personal opinion
Everyone must know that what these guys are doing is from their free time, and no one is forced to use their ROM`s. Who do use them, is doing that by free will. It may be that one of ROM is not that good that another, but you can go anytime to stock ROM, or the one you had before (like I did some times).
What I`m trying to say is that all we have to do is to say “thank you” to these guys who make possible that we all have a better device.
Keep up the good work and I salute you!
hehehe all very amusing, how you've made this into an issue I don't know...
chefs don't need to "understand" anything, they post it here with as much or as little description as they like!
luckily this forum is packed full of support tips faqs etc that there's really no need to ask chefs to be "very precise" and other such nonsense.
chefs can "spew" as much as they like, what the general public "prefer" is really not an issue, you are lucky that some of them reply and give you the help they do at all, in fact Xanny happens to give a lot of support for his roms and I can understand why he might feel just a little tired at some of the repetitive questions etc that get asked in his thread.
The fact the chefs reply at all should be help enough, you imply that you put "time and effort" into testing the roms...well that's lovely but it doesn't give you any extra gold stars.
This is not an attack against you, but you "need to understand" that there's nothing the chefs "need to understand" or do in order to please you or anyone else who take the time to test the roms, because noone is asking you to.
I think this pretty pointless thread has ran its purpose IMO. I believe all chef's put a lot of work into their roms and are trying to acheive the best rom, with the latest builds with no bugs. This is a hard enough task without people complaining about issues all the time which in general most chef's try to eradicate. No one wants bugs including chef's, but with newer builds appearing all the time, its inevitable you will get issues as these builds where not planned for the HD.
Think enough has been said on this subject
Thread closed
I ASK THAT YOU READ ALL THIS BEFORE I GET TO THE FIX, BECAUSE THIS IS A MULTILAYERED TOPIC. I WANT EVERYONE TO READ THIS, NOT JUST DEVS OR SENIORS, BUT ALL THE LURKERS AND MEMBERS WHO'VE NEVER POSTED. I WILL ACCEPT ALL SUGGESTIONS AND IDEAS.
THAT MEANS YOU. AND YOU. AND THATS RIGHT...EVEN YOU!
IN THIS POST, I WILL DISCUSS BRIEFLY MY PLANS FOR THE FUTURE OF MY HERO, HOW I WILL BRING MY SUCCESS TO PHONES AROUND THE USA, HOW I WILL JOIN THE LEAUGES OF DAMAGE, AND FLIPZ, AND ESPECIALLY DARCH, WHO WHILE WATCHED FROM A DISTANCE, WHEN THE TIME CAME FOR IT, BROUGHT ME THE ANSWER. AT THE END, I HAVE A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION, TO BE FOLLOWED BY THE FIX[EDIT: REALITY; COMING SOON][sooner with your support!]
3 year lurker. xda is the only forum I've taken apart of in the community, and to a small sucess. I've actaully managed to help, learn, and now its time I give back to the community.
I FIRMLY BELIEVE I HAVE THE SKILLS REQUIRED TO BRING SOMETHING NEW TO THE TABLE, AND HAVE ENOUGH TO SPLIT IT BETWEEN EVERY PERSON SITTING AT THAT TABLE. WILL YOU JOIN ME AT THIS TABLE?
If anyone has ever looked at my profile, then you know I've only been a member since March 25th, and have been made a senior in just over a week(not that I'm bragging...). I'm no spammer, all my posts have been legit, and I have actually helped people. I still consider myself a noob, but I do believe I have earned my seniority, and hopefully the support of all the main devs, who have helped me beyond belief, and have responded to any major question I had, especially with what Ive been working on lately.
If you've logged on within the past 2 weeks, and followed my posts at all, then you know that even if I dont know the answer, I offer suggestions, and more importantly support. I distinguish flames, stomp on the trolls, and still manage to bring my ideas to the table, so its time to test and see if I can make these idea's come true.
I cannot do this without your help.
I am now going to quote one the the best devs on this forum, with the fix.
darchstar said:
mountaindont said:
wanna hop over on my trackball fix thread?
im so damn close, i can see the lights!
...get it?
im uploading the directory we gotta mess with now. i just know you can help!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're best bet would be to write an app to keep the trackball light forever on instead of trying to rewrite most of the frameworks and deal with all the dependencies to fix the trackball light.
if you really want to go and make the trackball stay always on by rewriting some code, i'd suggest you first look inside the framework jars with baksmali and find any lines which reference to the trackball, and see if you can somehow manipulate it to constantly echo 1 to the trackball led device in /dev to constantly stay on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I'm going to start understanding the Android platform to the degree that Darch and co do, the best place to start would be writing my first application (this will expose me to the framework, the commands, and how to manipulate the OS like never before). Something I've looked into, and have tried a couple things.
-keeping in mind, that in all reality, Sprints final release will give the option to decide light or touch responsive...at least, I hope so...-
I get my laptop back tomaro, and I will be studying the SDK to the T, and with the support of you guys, I will write an app to work on any 2.1 ROM, that will give you the option to keep the trackball light on or let it remain light sensitive[beta, first release] and eventually, options that will blow your mind. Things that handcent might incorporate, so you only have to use this app to pimp out the stock messaging app. Speed of flash. Customize vibration. Haptic feedback when clicking the trackball (links, function buttons, or just sitting on your homescreen, and you get that urge to just enjoy the pleasure of your customized vibration.) [future release, always FREE]
I dont know how long it will take me to learn the SDK enough to set something up from nothing and make this farfetched idea. I was hoping that someone could give me the scource code to a related app; handcent would be amazing, but something like Trackball Alert for the nexus one (its something, not nothing :-\) would be cool too. Or if you have programming skills, please, lets team up, I'm reading tutorials now. If I can complete "Hello Android", I'm sure I can make this happen.
THIS IS THE QUESTION THAT I ASK OF THE ENTIRE XDA COMMUNITY (lurkers, seniors, devs, and members who just want to test and give feed back)
WILL YOU SUPPORT ME?
If I ask a question (dont worry, this thread your reading now has gone through four topic changes to avoid clutter, I'll be sticking with this thread for updates, releases, and changelogs -
I might start one more thread to keep up on bugs-) will you help? Will you subscribe and help my idea come to life, and bring a whole new customization option app. Will the main devs take part, seeing as how this app could very well be included in future releases of their ROMS (I'll talk about my ROM idea's in another update) Will the seniors with a sick attitude be able to put their frustrations and rude answers in their pocket while posting in this thread? Bring positive energy in, with advice and sugestions, and crys of "good luck!"?
If its a team effort, its hardly an effort at all.
the basis of what what we have so far. i know what files need to be edited, this time im sure its [sys/class/leds/button-backlight] in this directory, there are sensor files, a "trigger file"(quite sure this will play a major role) that contains a series of commands that seem to tell the backlights and sensors how and when to act. I'm sure apps like Handcent and Trackball alert mess with the same files (and if not, what do they mess with to make these changes? would installing and taking a look at the permissions be a good place to start?). Anyone know how to get in touch with the devs, or some scource code of an app that affects the trackball? This would be a great start.
[/\]
quick rundown of my rom idea's. some of you read my MAJOR INTERNAL MEMORY ISSUE thread, which you all rose magnificently to the occasion, and I couldnt be happier. It was true team work, something I know we can do if we just unite like we did yesterday. You all solved my problem, and have proven to me the members of XDA are capable of anything, especially when united.
the fact is, damages latest leaks are the best platform to build upon, as when the final release surfaces, and we get an official RUU, it will work truely flawlessly. so this is most certainly what we need to base the app off of at first, as its the only one with the closest trackball fix. if darch and flipz n fresh all want to encorporate it into their ROMS, they more than entitled too, as I hope to get help from them in certain areas. my issue with the latest sprint leak: the OS is so big, it leaves you with barely any internal memory, and you pretty much have no choice but to use a2sd. ive never had to use a2sd on my hero, and this is disppointing (damage, this is NOT a shot at you, its a fact, one I plan on helping you adress. im in the middle of working on a cleaner foundation for you to work on). the rom will be fully "sensable" with some tweaks like that of no other. i will build on the foundation you've laid, to create a new foundation for you to build on (once more leaks surface)
[/\]
im off for the day, except for occasionaly visits on my Hero, so please feel free to comment. I'm looking for someone to help build this app, so anyone with app programming skills, PM your GTALK and we can chat about idea's. in the meantime, maybe someone knows a open scource app that would allow us to build off?
dear damage, darch, and flipz, please PM me your GTALK if your interested...although I could understand if your too busy with your ROMS, I dont mind taking on the load, as long as I have your support, and can ask for help. i will not cross the line and ask for the RUU's you've been getting damage, but I would love to hear your plans for future releases, whether or not you might be interested in using my app and perhaps help developing it.
c.a.l.i.n.g. a.l.l. d.e.v.s.
It is light sensitive tested by placing finger over the sensor above the sprint logo (upper right) flicked the track ball it comes on. Hopefully that helps beleive me I know how it is when you ask a question or look for help and you get nothing
mrbook said:
It is light sensitive tested by placing finger over the sensor above the sprint logo (upper right) flicked the track ball it comes on. Hopefully that helps beleive me I know how it is when you ask a question or look for help and you get nothing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a quick search in damages.thread (which i hate doing, his threads fill so fast.and questions get buried, right along with the answer) gave me the same conclusion. but the fact is, i want a constant trackball led, and im sure if people had the option, more people would want it too. most view it as a minimal bug, so dont bother. i guess, for me, the other bugs are so minimal that the trackballs led has become the biggest issue.
could someone please help? i spend alot of time on here helping as much as i can, id really appreciate it if someone with the same desired goal could devote some time to it. id be willing to help in any manner.
im sitting in my basement with all the lights out posting this, just to spend time with my long lost tb led.
BUMP
Did you try to turn off the Auto brightness feature for the display to see if this stops the Trackball from not turning on?
dcdave63 said:
Did you try to turn off the Auto brightness feature for the display to see if this stops the Trackball from not turning on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have auto brightness off and it has no effect on trackball led.....
chfields said:
I have auto brightness off and it has no effect on trackball led.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes ive been playing with the power control widget since first flash. no joy. thanks for the idea, have anymore?
anyone?
bumpedybumpbump
Trackball Alert
There's a dude from the uk that builds an app for N1 that brings the ability to choose your own color and rate of the trackball lite. Try to send him an email see if he wants to jump in. The app is called Trackball alert. Its says its only for the N1 though.
Hope you can find a solution.
energizer1389 said:
There's a dude from the uk that builds an app for N1 that brings the ability to choose your own color and rate of the trackball lite. Try to send him an email see if he wants to jump in. The app is called Trackball alert. Its says its only for the N1 though.
Hope you can find a solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah ive seen the app. i will make sure to do that, i hope the brits want to help.
im sure us on xda.could find a solution, however.
i really hope sprint doesnt plan on releasing 2.1 like this. id be sorely disappointed.
Believe me, I understand what it's like to have a feature that's important to me and nobody else seems to care about. We all paid good money for these phones, and continue to pay good money every month for service, so I think that gives us each the right to at least ask about the things that we care about. (Well, unless you're trying to use Sprint VVM instead of GV. That's just plain dumb.....)
As far as the trackball light behavior goes, I think your probably screwed. That's something that will most likely have to be changed in the source code of whatever is controlling it. That seems to me like something that's probably coded in at a very low level of the OS itself. (Well, not the OS, actually. The OS is Linux. But it's probably hardcoded into the Android framework.)
As good a job as the rom devs on xda do, it's not like they're actually creating this software. They're just taking what others have created and packaging it in a way that works on our phones. My guess is that the people who can make the change you're asking for work in HTC's offices...
As far as the different colors, good luck. There's a reason that tweak only works on the N1. It's the only phone that has different colored LEDs back there to light up. You can be the best programmer in the world, but you still can't turn on a red light if the only light available is white......
subliminalurge said:
Believe me, I understand what it's like to have a feature that's important to me and nobody else seems to care about. We all paid good money for these phones, and continue to pay good money every month for service, so I think that gives us each the right to at least ask about the things that we care about. (Well, unless you're trying to use Sprint VVM instead of GV. That's just plain dumb.....)
As far as the trackball light behavior goes, I think your probably screwed. That's something that will most likely have to be changed in the source code of whatever is controlling it. That seems to me like something that's probably coded in at a very low level of the OS itself. (Well, not the OS, actually. The OS is Linux. But it's probably hardcoded into the Android framework.)
As good a job as the rom devs on xda do, it's not like they're actually creating this software. They're just taking what others have created and packaging it in a way that works on our phones. My guess is that the people who can make the change you're asking for work in HTC's offices...
As far as the different colors, good luck. There's a reason that tweak only works on the N1. It's the only phone that has different colored LEDs back there to light up. You can be the best programmer in the world, but you still can't turn on a red light if the only light available is white......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i exchanged a pm woth regaw, who is working closely with damage in building and testing the leaks. he seems fairly certain its a matter of messing with an xml file. lets cross our fingers for more information.
anyone have any clue what.xml file defines when and how the tb lights up?
mountaindont said:
he seems fairly certain its a matter of messing with an xml file. lets cross our fingers for more information.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That could be, too. Will be cool if it is. I'm still working on getting a full understanding of the Android framework, but that could be in an xml file now that I think about it.
That said, I stand by my point that these guys aren't exactly writing software from scratch. There comes a point where they can only do so much with the programs that they're repackaging.
Once that point is reached, it's really not fair or realistic to ask them to do much more until the real developers release new software and it gets leaked again.
subliminalurge said:
That could be, too. Will be cool if it is. I'm still working on getting a full understanding of the Android framework, but that could be in an xml file now that I think about it.
That said, I stand by my point that these guys aren't exactly writing software from scratch. There comes a point where they can only do so much with the programs that they're repackaging.
Once that point is reached, it's really not fair or realistic to ask them to do much more until the real developers release new software and it gets leaked again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i comletely understand what you mean, and whole heartidly agree. damage is getting these leaks from someone and simply modifying for beytter performance, and working out the bugs sprint hasnt quite got ironed out yet.
but!
originally, these 2.1 roms were based on the eris and legend leaks, meaning the devs have a sound understanding of taking the given software and rewriting it to work on the sprint network/our hardware
it can be done, a simple edit of an xml file, and if we team up, i see no reason it couldnt be done, and rather easily at that.
i dp regret i have no knowledge in this regard, but i know its a patch alot of peoe would jump on and definatly appreciate. damage and all the rest are artists, maybe its time we give baxk, ya know? i wish i could be more of a help, but for.now, all i can do it bring the devs together in hopes to make a speedy and stable patch.
if any devs are reading this, i just want you to know us here at xda do appreciate your work, and i hope us joes.can give back in someway.
i guess edits dont bump lol
sooo...
ahem
BUMP!
bumpedybumpbump
can someone help?
is no one awake?
its fridaaaaay!
im off for the night...any late night noobs or pros wanna take a look, you can easily use root explorer to view and edit the files, hopefully youll have more luck than i have (remember its a xml file!)
sys/class/leds/button-backlight/
gnite
correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Damaged2.15 even touches those portions of the OS. I think you should be looking in the /system/lib/hw/ folder.
robchaos said:
correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Damaged2.15 even touches those portions of the OS. I think you should be looking in the /system/lib/hw/ folder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
okokokok, let me take a look
!!!!
I think that there are conflicts within there. most of those files are self explanitory, but what are the gralloc.default.so and gralloc.msm7k.so libs? IIRC the droid guys had keyboard issues and those files were included in the fix, so its possible they affect the lighting in some way. I don't think we can pull those files though, it didn't seem to want to boot after that. I think gralloc also has to do with opengl.
robchaos said:
correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Damaged2.15 even touches those portions of the OS. I think you should be looking in the /system/lib/hw/ folder.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dammit, i was just trying to sleep.
i was told the file we need is an xml file, and i dont see any in there. HOWEVER; i do see lights.msm7k.so
and sensors.goldfish.so/sensors.heroc.so
which one should i look at first?
robchaos said:
I think that there are conflicts within there. most of those files are self explanitory, but what are the gralloc.default.so and gralloc.msm7k.so libs? IIRC the droid guys had keyboard issues and those files were included in the fix, so its possible they affect the lighting in some way. I don't think we can pull those files though, it didn't seem to want to boot after that. I think gralloc also has to do with opengl.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i was wondering what those two were also...no idea
i DO know the file we need to fix is xlm file...should be just a change of a command (or perhaps an addon) but i dont see a single xlm in the entire system/ folder...
suggestions?
I'm posting this in the Development section because that is what I am trying to learn about. Please move me if I am mis-posting this.
I'm greatly interested in the the Roms people are making and everything that is being done on these forums. If someone wanted to start to learn about these things, developing and such, where should they start? Do I need to learn Java? Are there certain books I should be reading?
I can flash my phone like its my day job now, and I haven't come across any major problems I couldn't solve by reading, but I have no idea where to start to be able to develop things myself. If any developers here could maybe throw out a few tips on how to get started, what someone should focus on learning, etc., it would be greatly appreciated! I have plenty of time and a great desire to learn so I'm not intimidated by having to do the work, I just have to have some things to focus on. Thank you in advance for any help/advice you can give me!
I always wanted to know how make roms also I was looking around the internet but couldn't find anything that will describe it step by step word for word.
Maccie
It will be a huge writeup.But im sure someone will do it. I am still learning myself. There are some good topics around but different from what we have now
topshelf95 said:
I'm posting this in the Development section because that is what I am trying to learn about. Please move me if I am mis-posting this.
I'm greatly interested in the the Roms people are making and everything that is being done on these forums. If someone wanted to start to learn about these things, developing and such, where should they start? Do I need to learn Java? Are there certain books I should be reading?
I can flash my phone like its my day job now, and I haven't come across any major problems I couldn't solve by reading, but I have no idea where to start to be able to develop things myself. If any developers here could maybe throw out a few tips on how to get started, what someone should focus on learning, etc., it would be greatly appreciated! I have plenty of time and a great desire to learn so I'm not intimidated by having to do the work, I just have to have some things to focus on. Thank you in advance for any help/advice you can give me!
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There are a number of aspects to android development you have to learn to know how to build a full ROM from scratch. C is of course required for kernel building, and apps are built from java in the dalvik-vm, but can be built against sun java.
of course, to get started, you would need the android sdk available here: http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html
then there's the cloning of the android git:
http://android.git.kernel.org/
and, specifically for the captivate, there's the captivate source code:
http://opensource.samsung.com/
then there's pulling off the vendor proprietary libs from your phone (which is a ***** and I believe you can grab them from wes's github, though I can't speak for their accuracy) here:
http://github.com/wesgarner/proprietary_vendor_samsung
building the entire android OS from source is a challenge, especially compensating for some changes Samsung has introduced. this is what a real ROM is. now if you're talking about "ROM"s like Cognition and Shep's and even Eugene's Hybrid/Frankin-Twiz... they aren't comparable. Not to belittle any of their efforts, but this is simple "drag and drop" from stuff built by Samsung. While they're very useful tools, there is little actual development going on in them. There are improvements and tweaks, for sure... but it isn't a *true* ROM. All these releases by DesignGears, Eugene, and Shep are good and effective, but it'd be a shame if they weren't because they are just files thrown together from Samsung's already compiled ROM(s). Even the AOSP Beta 3 (which I have a qualm with the name, because it isn't actually AOSP, it's files pulled from an already built AOSP tossed onto Samsung's ROM again) is just modifying binaries (decompile, edit, recompile).
for those, it's as simple as extracting the zip, replacing the files you want, and rezip it. modifying the update-script inside meta-inf if there's something you want to add.
Awesome post Kaik, thanks, I was wondering some of those too.
Thx that explained a bunch
Maccie
Thank you for taking the time to post that Kaik! It's nice to have a place to start! Anyone else have any tips or things they think might be good to check out?
last, but certainly not least and I can't believe I forgot this, is Unhelpful's toolchain to compile against:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=761923
he did a lot of testing with various combinations, and this was the best he found to reduce wakeup lag and other issues
Wow. Kaik. That was the most awesome response to that question I have ever seen. Most people just point to developer.android.com and say go learn to program and come back in 5 years.
Thank you for this very useful information. Your the man now dog.
johnyhoffman said:
Most people just point to developer.android.com and say go learn to program and come back in 5 years.
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Devs are not being mean or pissy, they are being honest and realistic. If development was just "point and click" XDA would not even be here. Give the devs/veterans a break and take it upon yourself to learn the basics and do some searches, if you are that interested.
I would love to just start making my own Android OS just the way I like too but to do that will require much more reading and learning, trying and failing.
You will probably not find "the answer" you are looking for but if you search, read and most importantly, respect the time, energy and anguish people have put into this site you will find the means to get where you want.
Otherwise you can expect... "Let me just glance and peek to see how to do this. Damn what the hell does that mean? Oh well here is a modded ROM. I'll try that. Jeez, that sucks. How do I make my own? Let me just glance and peek to see how to do this. Damn what the hell does that mean? Oh well ..." It is an endless cycle.
I'm not saying this to belittle anyone. Most have been there, including myself. I say this as a vote of confidence to all.
Hang in there, do the work, break some phones, read some books. Really! You have to!
koe1974 said:
Devs are not being mean or pissy, they are being honest and realistic. If development was just "point and click" XDA would not even be here. Give the devs/veterans a break and take it upon yourself to learn the basics and do some searches, if you are that interested.
I would love to just start making my own Android OS just the way I like too but to do that will require much more reading and learning, trying and failing.
You will probably not find "the answer" you are looking for but if you search, read and most importantly, respect the time, energy and anguish people have put into this site you will find the means to get where you want.
Otherwise you can expect... "Let me just glance and peek to see how to do this. Damn what the hell does that mean? Oh well here is a modded ROM. I'll try that. Jeez, that sucks. How do I make my own? Let me just glance and peek to see how to do this. Damn what the hell does that mean? Oh well ..." It is an endless cycle.
I'm not saying this to belittle anyone. Most have been there, including myself. I say this as a vote of confidence to all.
Hang in there, do the work, break some phones, read some books. Really! You have to!
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this times one thousand. I linked you guys to some very useful sites when it comes to actually putting android together... but understanding how it all works, actually getting a successful build, fixing bugs, etc... I can't even begin to pretend to be able to help with that. if you have little to no experience in C and Java, these things will basically be useless to you. dev's aren't being mean when they brush you off like that, but usually if you can't figure out how to google what to do with the code, they don't have high hopes for what you'll be able to do with it once you find the code.
the idea isn't to be like "f*** off" when they say that, it's more of a "we'll help you when you learn, but you're the one who needs to take the first steps and you need to take the responsibility of learning on yourself."
I was actually referring to the fact that someone like me, a hobbyist programmer for about 10 years now, can make sense of his reply and use it to go forth and actually do something. Most of the guides you find on here that are supposedly pointed at noobs, do not layout things as easily as his post did.
Wasn't criticizing anyone, but I have seen less patience nowadays for any posts such as these.
Was just saying it was a gem of a post for me personally. Maybe it doesn't help the ultra noobs and the more experienced people see it as useless, but for someone with little time right now, it was a perfect post for me.
Just so everyone is aware, the kernel and the recovery partition signatures are checked on each boot, changing those will leave you with a brick, until we have proper firmware to recovery with.
I found out the hard way.
On my second Atrix now.
Casualty of war
Taking one for the team
Well that sucks..
any free partitions that we can "steal"? and basically pull a haret where it loads partially from legit bootloader and kernel, then shuffles off to a different partition we CAN write for the real kernel, unloads all that other stuff and then launches the new kernel partiion we've modified?
designgears said:
Just so everyone is aware, the kernel and the recovery partition signatures are checked on each boot, changing those will leave you with a brick, until we have proper firmware to recovery with.
I found out the hard way.
On my second Atrix now.
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I guess that when we told you this, you just had to find out for yourself. The recovery should only be checked when you attempt to access it, but the kernel is checked on every boot. I hope you did not return to store as defective.
DG, thank you for putting yourself out there, and putting together roms along with the dev work.
Its nice to see some progress being done along side all the people on here saying what we shouldnt be doing/trying with our phones.
Athailias said:
DG, thank you for putting yourself out there, and putting together roms along with the dev work.
Its nice to see some progress being done along side all the people on here saying what we shouldnt be doing/trying with our phones.
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Don't thank him for repeating something which had been confirmed.
jimmydafish said:
I guess that when we told you this, you just had to find out for yourself. The recovery should only be checked when you attempt to access it, but the kernel is checked on every boot. I hope you did not return to store as defective.
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So you told me it was checked every boot (first bold), but it should only be checked when you access it (second bold)? Confused, on drugs or what?
I just found out the hard way for you, it's checked every boot accessed or not.
If you want to be elitist and not post up a FAQ about what you know (do you even have an atrix), please stop posting in here, you've done nothing but spout off what you know about other moto devices, it is clear they tightened things down a bit more.
jimmypopulous said:
Don't thank him for repeating something which had been confirmed.
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everything you guys say, along with others says it SHOULD be checked when accessed, which means I should have been able to boot normally and fail when I boot recovery.
You guys keep saying its CONFIRMED, where is it documented for the atrix. Tests performed with document results as proof.
designgears said:
So you told me it was checked every boot (first bold), but it should only be checked when you access it (second bold)? Confused, on drugs or what?
I just found out the hard way for you, it's checked every boot accessed or not.
If you want to be elitist and not post up a FAQ about what you know (do you even have an atrix), please stop posting in here, you've done nothing but spout off what you know about other moto devices, it is clear they tightened things down a bit more.
everything you guys say, along with others says it SHOULD be checked when accessed, which means I should have been able to boot normally and fail when I boot recovery.
You guys keep saying its CONFIRMED, where is it documented for the atrix. Tests performed with document results as proof.
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What is being elitist by my statement? That before you started playing with your shiny new toy, we advised that doing certain things with your phone without proper firmware to restore your phone, WOULD result in a "soft brick".
I do not have a motorola ATRIX, never said I did, but I can read the firmware pretty well. If your offended by my post I assume it is because offered up my standard line of "hope you did not return it as defective", because nothing else in that statement should lead you behave like a child.
Here how about this for a Facts, my rom was the first to safely remove Blur from the Droid series of phones safely, after reading the firmware from your phone, and your deodexed version of the firmware there are many portions you could remove safely.
If you have questions you could ask and get the answers, but as it stands right now, we are just trying to help you save yourselves. Many people will enter these forums, and while each person is responsible for their own device, they will try to follow what you have done and they too will soft brick their phone. I'm not sure of your ethical and moral makeup but too many people return their manipulated device to the provider as defective causing every to pay for their mistake.
I just hope you bought another Atrix outright and did not scam ATT/Motorola.
designgears said:
So you told me it was checked every boot (first bold), but it should only be checked when you access it (second bold)? Confused, on drugs or what?
I just found out the hard way for you, it's checked every boot accessed or not.
If you want to be elitist and not post up a FAQ about what you know (do you even have an atrix), please stop posting in here, you've done nothing but spout off what you know about other moto devices, it is clear they tightened things down a bit more.
everything you guys say, along with others says it SHOULD be checked when accessed, which means I should have been able to boot normally and fail when I boot recovery.
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DesignGears,
Please don't let a claim-to-know-it-all self-righteous Prick like jimmydafish discourage your efforts.
As far as I'm concerned (and probably the majority of people who mash the refresh button on this subforum multiple times a day would agree) it's people like you (people who have actively contributed to the users here at XDA in the past (all your captivate work)), that make me feel lucky to own the same type of device that you and other dedicated devs like yourself own.
Its hard to imagine how someone who probably played a very small part on a team -- a team that, as far as I can tell, has never managed to actually produce any real results on the DX -- can know so much about a device he doesn't even own.
And if reading this post encourages members of any such team to get their panties in a wad and start talking about how they are not going to contribute here now, well then to that I say: good riddance. For every one small tip you may provide it seams like you offer two holier-than-thou-doughe-bag-comments that frankly this section of this forum could do without.
But again, thank you DesginGears and Devs like you
mburris said:
DesignGears,
Please don't let a claim-to-know-it-all self-righteous Prick like jimmydafish discourage your efforts.
As far as I'm concerned (and probably the majority of people who mash the refresh button on this subforum multiple times a day would agree) it's people like you (people who have actively contributed to the users here at XDA in the past (all your captivate work)), that make me feel lucky to own the same type of device that you and other dedicated devs like yourself own.
Its hard to imagine how someone who probably played a very small part on a team -- a team that, as far as I can tell, has never managed to actually produce any real results on the DX -- can know so much about a device he doesn't even own.
And if reading this post encourages members of any such team to get their panties in a wad and start talking about how they are not going to contribute here now, well then to that I say: good riddance. For every one small tip you may provide it seams like you offer two holier-than-thou-doughe-bag-comments that frankly this section of this forum could do without.
But again, thank you DesginGears and Devs like you
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I can assure you I am not, glad to have support.
--
Jimmy, no hard feelins, sorry I wanted try something and learn from it, sorry you told me two opposing things in the same post(this is what I am *****ing about if you would read you would know that), sorry I act like a child, I guess calling it how I see it is childish. From all the PM's about you I just got and mburris reply, you have made my block list, have fun in there with rafy.
jimmydafish said:
I just hope you bought another Atrix outright and did not scam ATT/Motorola.
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Maybe if more people softbricked and returned phones that have locked down bootloaders, oems and carriers might finally realize that when someone buys a piece of technology, they own it, and would like to use it as such.
That includes:
1. Not having some POS skin on top of stock android (Blur)
2. Not being locked into paying twice for the data we already pay for (tethering)
3. Not being allowed to easily install non-market apps that we develop without jumping through hoops (slide loading)
4. Not having to wait for the carrier or oem mfg to release an update before we can have a current version of Android.
Call it a Brick-n-Return Protest
mburris said:
Maybe if more people softbricked and returned phones that have locked down bootloaders, oems and carriers might finally realize that when someone buys a piece of technology, they own it, and would like to use it as such.
That includes:
1. Not having some POS skin on top of stock android (Blur)
2. Not being locked into paying twice for the data we already pay for (tethering)
3. Not being allowed to easily install non-market apps that we develop without jumping through hoops (slide loading)
4. Not having to wait for the carrier or oem mfg to release an update before we can have a current version of Android.
Call it a Brick-n-Return Protest
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LOL, that would surely cause some grief over at at&t, and a good laugh.
They would probably start leasing the phones so you can't say you own them.
Closed by OP request as this is an informational thread stating results of testing.
Is there a working CyanogenMod rom for the facsinate, I've read some post but just want a yes or no answer please?
Not totally working.
and.... wrong section.
go look at the cm7 thread in the development section. it makes it very clear what is working and what isnt.
Short answer: A lot of stuff in CM7 works. Somethings such as MMS do not. Whether you consider that build working depends on your needs.
Now, I don't say this to be mean. I say this to prevent you from numerous headaches and issues.
Basic reading comprehension and a willingness to search and research independently are required if you are going to successfully flash new software on your phone. That is to say little about bleeding edge Cyanogen which has its own set of eccentricities currently. If you don't have the time or patience to have those qualities then you should skip this process because you WILL end up with a "brick".
Again, I don't say this to be mean or cold-hearted. It is simply fact that if you aren't willing to invest the time to be painstaking in your steps and research that you will end up with a brick and very unhappy. Sorry to be a downer.
bobloblaw1 said:
Short answer: A lot of stuff in CM7 works. Somethings such as MMS do not. Whether you consider that build working depends on your needs.
Now, I don't say this to be mean. I say this to prevent you from numerous headaches and issues.
Basic reading comprehension and a willingness to search and research independently are required if you are going to successfully flash new software on your phone. That is to say little about bleeding edge Cyanogen which has its own set of eccentricities currently. If you don't have the time or patience to have those qualities then you should skip this process because you WILL end up with a "brick".
Again, I don't say this to be mean or cold-hearted. It is simply fact that if you aren't willing to invest the time to be painstaking in your steps and research that you will end up with a brick and very unhappy. Sorry to be a downer.
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Hate to be a downer but its not really any different than installing another rom. Not that doing your own research is a bad thing but you seem like you're trying to frighten people. This phone does not brick easily. The only difference here with cm7 is that you have to odin to get off it.
Sent from my kang banged fascinate, bro.
A person who can't take 30 seconds and read the first post in either of the two cyanogenmod threads and has to ask needs a dose of reality.
And yes, the phone is quite recoverable but only if you know what you are doing. We have seen enough of the "i've spent the last 12 hours trying to recover my phone because I flashed xyz incorrectly" to warrant some caution.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA Premium App
Why so grouchy?
At least the question wasn't posted in the Dev forum.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1116424
That is where the info for the closest-to-pure CM7 ROM there is on the site.
WARNING: If you don't like it or it happens to brick your phone, you will need odin and a good working image to go back to. These are available on the site. I strongly recommend you find them and familiarize yourself on the how-to of those before embarking down the road of CM7.
I ran TestBuild2 from the above link for sever days. It is nice but has too many stability defects to be reasonable for me because I use my phone for work.
stfu noob, reed some of the forum first
mikefrost702 said:
stfu noob, reed some of the forum first
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Really unnecessary from someone who.never posted before or anyone for that matter
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1038478 'nuff said.
Another Fascinating post by my XDA app...