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[Q] Does Google not continuing the Nexus One line threaten the future of Android?

So I have been giving a lot of thought to this subject ever since reading a few articles a couple of weeks back about the CEO of Google Eric Schmidt saying that they have no plans on making a "Nexus Two." Not only this, but Google stating that they will no longer sell the Nexus One direct and unlocked from the www.google.com/phone store. My question is, does this threaten the Android platform in the future. I personally think it won't because Android will continue to live on, but the open Android that we have come to know and love today will be jeopardized. This is why I decided to start this thread to see how others feel about this subject and ask some important questions about the fate of Android.
To start off we really have to see what Google's Nexus One brought to the world of Android to be able to see what we will be missing if there is no "Google phone" in the future. On January 5, 2010 Google threw a press conference where it called it's new baby the Nexus One a "superphone" and ever since then the i has been in the news having every flaw dissected and blown out of proportion by tech blogs all around the web. Yes, the Nexus One had some big flaws like the multitouch screen, early T-Mobile 3G problems, No multitouch pinch to zoom (now changed), and even the pentile arrangement of pixels on the AMOLED screen, but it also was the first in the smartphone world (unless you count the HD2, but we are talking about Android not WM in this discussion) to have a lot of huge features that now started this Android revolution. It had a powerful Snapdragon 1 Ghz processor (up to this point the biggest we had was the Droid with an Arm Cortex A8 550 mhz processor), 3.7 inch AMOLED screen (WVGA 800x480 pixels) , 512 mb of RAM (most had 256mb RAM), 5mp camera (with LED flash and 720x480 video capture), and one of the lightest (130 grams with battery), sleekest 119mm heidth by 59.8mm depth), and thinnest (11.5mm) phones on the market. The Droid paved the road and the Nexus One showed OEM's what the top of the line Android phone must have to compete in specs. The Nexus One launched with Eclair 2.1 and was the first to bring it to the world. A couple months after launch Google gave pinch to zoom multitouch to the Nexus One and this allowed other phones like the Droid and now most of the Android phones available to get this much desired feature. Perhaps one of the best features of the phone was that it launched with an unlocked bootloader and introduced the world to the adb command "fastboot oem unlock." I know that are beloved developers have been unlocking the full potential of phones since the Windows Mobile days, but Android has brought that even further. Since then the Nexus One has quickly become the dev phone of the Android world. If you don't like a feature simply change it or flash a different ROM. This wonderful world that the great developers in the Android community work so hard to bring to us is really the "killer feature" of the Android OS and this is being threatened by not having anymore "Google phones." Lately we are seeing companies like Motorola and Verizon using eFuse to lock down their phones and keeping people that spend their hard earned money from flashing ROM's. I am sure the whole eFuse thing has been blown out of proportion and I am sure the next Android superstar (or one of the many we already have here on XDA) will unlock the Droid X to it's full potential, but the mere fact that these companies are locking down phones using the FREE Android OS is very disheartening. We don't want the same cat and mouse game that Apple and their iPhone customers have to play to unlock and use their phones and this is one of the many reasons people flock to the open Android OS.
Not only do we risk "locking down" the platform, but by not having any further Nexus phones we will more than likely never see another Vanilla Android phone. Instead we are seeing what the OEMs and wireless providers want us to see and this is evident in the losing of WiFi tethering in the latest build of Android 2.2, or known as Froyo. If a wireless provider doesn't want a feature (like tethering) the OEM's are then pressured into leaving it out to make them happy. This is not a good thing in my opinion as it again puts the power and fate of Android in the wireless providers like Verizon and AT&T where we are quickly losing the openness of Android and the ability to even side load applications. This is exactly why we need a phone like the Nexus One. A phone that will push the boundaries of innovation and keep the wireless companies honest by simple competition. They won't leave an important feature out if the Google phone already has a version of it out and available unlocked. Without Google making a phone we are left with whatever skin the OEMs have minus the features the wireless companies don't want included. If the Nexus One would not of been released we would be stuck with minimal upgrades and even worse what would make the OEMs and providers hurry with the newest release (Froyo in this case and soon to be Gingerbread)? If Google wouldn't of pushed Android 2.2 to the Nexus One then would all the companies like HTC, Samsung, and Motorola even be racing to get Froyo out? In my opinion the Nexus One is the only reason that these companies are trying to get 2.2 out in a timely basis. I mean I may be wrong as I am not a developer, but what would really make the OEMs and providers want to hurry with their releases if they didn't have the competition? I think it would be the opposite and these companies would make us buy their newest and top of the line Android phone just to get the newest and best Android release. This has been proven in the past and if it wasn't for the iPhone and Google's Android the smartphone world would be a very different place filled with Bada OSs, Windows Mobile phones, no app stores, and worse of all mediocre upgrades. This is the real reason we need Google to release a phone so they can take the fate of Android (and the power, in my opinion) away from greedy wireless companies and OEM's that only look to sell us a phone multiple times a year.
I have really given a lot of thought to this because ever since I purchased my Nexus One back in March (without AT&Ts permission, I should add) I had planned on buying a "Google phone" every year. I was aware that Google would work closely with different OEMs and we would get a great dev phone every year with the latest and greatest Vanilla Android, free from the clutches of wireless contracts, and most of all "OPEN." This was a great idea and I can see why Google's idea of selling a phone didn't catch on here in the states, but they accomplished a lot more than selling millions of devices like Apple does. They accomplished (along with the Droid, which I might add Google had a big hand in creating and bringing to life, and also was free of a locked bootloader) bringing Android to the masses and making the statement to companies that a top of the line Android phone needs to have these specs to compete in the Android world.
I just went out and bought me a Samsung Captivate and to be honest the first thing I thought I would get rid of was TouchWiz, but it has kind of grown on me. I think HTC Sense is nice as well, but I will always be a Vanilla Android fan and there is something about the Nexus One that always brings me back. This will be a phone that I will not ever get rid of and is still the best phone I have ever owned. I am sure many others feel the same way and the Nexus One will continue to be a niche kind of product, but I think I have made the argument that Google needs a phone to further Android and keep the fate of it's Android in it's hands. This could get out of control quick and it could turn bad. We are just nearing the top and Android is here to stay and will be the OS that everyone else attempts to mimic. Come on Google I know I am not the only one that feels this way and this is why I started this thread to get the feel of others in the Android community as I am sure there are others that are worried as well. The open Android that we know and love today is in jeopardy if Google doesn't maintain a little control over their Android OS. The OEM's and wireless companies are going to ruin the openness of Android if they don't have a constant pressure keeping them honest. One of the main reasons that Android has grown so rapidly is that a company like Google has created it to be free, open, and common to many phones so we don't have to worry about dozens of companies with mediocre platforms. Weigh in and let me know how you feel and maybe just maybe we can get someones attention. Feel free to copy this on other forums as I feel we need to save the idea of an open Android. One without the boundaries of no side loading of apps, eFuses, locked bootloaders, and most of all innovation and the advancement of the Android platform.

Google's own line of phones phone has zero influence on the android os.

JCopernicus said:
Google's own line of phones phone has zero influence on the android os.
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Yes, you are right, but without a Google phone what will Android be like? We won't see another Vanilla Android phone that is for sure.

Not being able to see into the future makes this a hard statement to take as fact.

There were vanilla phones before nexus one and there will continue to be more
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

If you want a true vanilla android phone grabe one of HTC's china phones, not even google apps are on it. =D

I agree with the basic premise that the Nexus One did provide leverage to potentially (and I think that is a key qualifier) keep the competition honest, but it isn't clear that it would do so without significantly more marketing. And, to market the Nexus One more could have annoyed some of the vendors that Google wants to keep happy - lots of happy vendors means lots of seats for Android means lots of seats off of which Google makes a lot of money. In particular, if every Android phone is locked, then Google still makes a mint, though they stand to make more of a mint if the platform is more widely adopted. And, an open phone does have an impact on platform adoption, but I don't think it is that critical since the public is used to buying fixed feature-set phones and upgrading for new features so this isn't an issue of taking away something that they demand as it is failing to give them something that they would come to know and love (as we already do).
But, I also want to counter some of the supporting arguments you present.
First, the current wave of smartphones was headed here one way or another. Google didn't create the wave, they simply reacted and targeted Android at the capabilities that were coming down the pike. To do that most effectively they needed a new developer phone and the Nexus One was going to be released in January one way or another as the ADP3 until they had this idea to sell direct. It was simply them needing to get out a testbed for the new Android capabilities that were targeted at the new baseline smartphone hardware and they chose to do it in an experimental new way this time. If they hadn't released the Nexus One direct to consumers then you would have seen the same phones come out and you would have seen the same OS releases, you just wouldn't have had a large installed base of end users previewing it on a non-developer handset.
Second, I think the main factor spurring the vendors to get 2.2 out quickly is that it offers so much, not that they have to keep up with the Nexus One. It is, in my opinion, the biggest release so far (and I've been with Android since 1.0) primarily because of the JIT. Also, all the manufacturers came out with what would become the new standard amount of RAM (512MB) and the existing release available for them to ship on did not support it, so they need to get on 2.2 in order to simply unlock the hardware they originally designed. In some sense, these phones were really designed for 2.2 - 2.1 was simply a stepping stone to get them shipped on their hardware schedule until 2.2 was ready on its software schedule. So, there are really 2 factors that would encourage them to get 2.2 out on their 2010-class phones that have nothing to do with the Nexus One being here.
As far as vanilla phones... The G1 was vanilla. The original Droid was vanilla (is it still vanilla with the latest releases?). The Nexus One was vanilla. But, where there any others? I love my vanilla phones (first G1 then N1), but I don't mind value added by the vendors, I just wish they would make it easier to customize things away and that they would learn to design their add-ons so that they can be easily dropped on to a new Android release with little fuss...

Short answer: No. It does not.
Simply put, there will always be a phone that will have Vanilla Android. If for nothing more than using that as a sale point. Especially with Andy 3.0 in the horizon which focus is on the UI. No worries.

Of course it doesn't.

Simple answer, no. There have always been vanilla Android phones, the developer phones at least, and there will always be developer phones. In fact, the Nexus is still for sale now as the latest developer phone.

Eventually there will be another vanilla Android phone that Google is behind, unless they get their own hardware built by someone and don't sell it publicly... but that wouldn't make much sense, just like it wouldn't make any sense for them to not ever have another phone.
Soon enough, the 2ghz and dual-core phones will be out, and eventually mobile devices will catch up to computers in terms of power. They're gonna have to.

I'm sure they will come out with a different dev phone in the future.

I agree with the op, up to a point. While it may be true that there'll always be a phone Google gets behind -a 'dev' phone, if you will- I think it still limits choice for people who want the vanilla experience. Is it really ok to just have one phone that's vanilla?
To the op: "If the Nexus One would not of been released...."
I think you mean "had not been released..."
and: "If Google wouldn't of pushed Android 2.2 to the Nexus One then...."
It's "If Google hadn't pushed Android..."
Sorry for the pedantry. Bad grammar just spoilt a good, well-thought out post.

Consumer are what they are a android is one of the greatest os I have experience.all those problems was soft ware issue and minor only something a child would complain about.i have a nexus almost went with a nokia n900 glad I didn't .proud of google.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

[Q] Would you still buy an Android phone?

Because I am quite disappointed with Samsung Galaxy S, I will sell it and buy another phone soon.
I am very fond of HTC Desire HD but is it worth to buy another Android phone or is better to give a try to iOS, Symbian ^3 or maybe Windows Mobile 7.
What are your suggestions?

From personal experience, I doubt the iOS beats android in any way. Symbian is too simple and plain for my taste. However, I don't know much about the latest symbian, but the N8 works on a much slower CPU than the SGS. As for windows mobile 7, since it's new, it might be worth a try but we can never really know till reviews start flooding the net... Personally, I think you're being a bit hasty with throwing away the SGS. With froyo just around the corner, it would really improve the phone overall, and would certainly be comparable with the Desire HD. After having done my own research, I concluded and opted for an android phone by choice, for IMHO it IS currently the best upcoming mobile phone OS. Ultimately, you just have to be patient with new technology, so irrespective of the OS or the manufacturer, there's really no point rushing. You will NEVER find 'The Perfect Phone'.... Just my two cents.

Hold out for Meego if Symbian ends up on top of your list, but that'll be 2011. If you want something with everything laid out for you and a good app store, iOS is a fine option, but it definitely depends on what your problem is with SGS and how much of that is Android/Samsung based. iOS has high satisfaction rates, but most people who get in there have stuck along, knew what they were getting into or don't know any better. Android, some people who aren't technical enough or like tinkering and having options just bought in because it's popular and they hear enough about it, but they didn't know what they were getting into. Still, as far as I know, Android has the second highest customer satisfaction, so if you need a decision for the here and now, go with Android or iOS. If you can wait until WP7, read up after the devices launch, it's not ready to compete with all things either platform can offer, but it does have long-term potential, particularly with gaming/MS integrations, but thus far from what I know I wouldn't buy it in the first 12 months of it's launch even if they start with the best hardware.

My advice is wait until Froyo.. The reason why you are disappointed is probably because it feels sometimes like Samsung aren't doing anything. This is because there aren't many leaks.
You may also be disappointed because many people here at XDA are jumping to incredibly uninformed conclusions. We have morons running around saying that Samsung will never release updates, people saying the lag can't be fixed in RFS (whilst Samsung might not have integrated a few performance patches) and newbies saying "the GPS problem is hardware" without ANY proof whatsobloodyever.
Also, whilst those who defend this phone regularly get called fanboy's, there are certainly a lot of HTC fanboys here too (which seems to be finally getting revealed now that many ex-HTC users are calling some of their ex-products worse).
Froyo might be a completely different ballgame (I wouldn't underestimate Samsung). But either way, a lot of people coming from other platforms are saying their SGS is better than their other phones anyway.
I wouldn't touch WM7 because:
1) Windows Mobile seems to be a dying platform. Unfortunately, Microsoft took too long to release it.
2) So this means they wont get many developers and users on-board.
3) Windows Mobile is closed source, and development isn't easy (You probably require Windows).
Why I wouldn't touch the iPhone:
1) For starters, Steve Jobs stood on stage and lied about the antenna. Rather than fix the problem, he called other mobiles rubbish (despite their antenna problems often being VERY difficult to replicate in real life). I have very little respect for that.
2) Development is difficult, you really need OSX. The OS is closed source too.
3) Many users NEED to jailbreak, because of restrictions in the store.
4) Apple products often have weird design issues, which people seem to ignore, but which exists.
5) Huge app store
6) iTunes.. Enough said..
Symbian
1) Symbian is open source, which is great...
2) But these days, only Nokia sells them. Symbian's marketshare will likely only decrease.
WebOS/Palm
1) Forget about WebOS. In most countries you can't find ANY webOS phones, so audience is VERY limited
Meego/Maemo
1) The Nokia N900 is the only phone that uses it.
2) But it probably runs faster than Android because it's compiled code.
3) But limited exposure. I'd consider it, if the hardware wasn't so sucky...
Android.
1) Apps might run slower, because it's bytecode
2) But, HUGE range of mobiles
3) Huge range of apps (Not as much as iPhone though)
4) Open source OS.
5) Evolving quickly, reliable vendor (Google know what they are doing)
6) The SGS seems to be the only laggy Android phone out there (probably due to a few bugs that need fixing in RFS, which might already be fixed in head/trunk).
I'd say hold off until Froyo. I have the feeling Samsung will surprise us. Remember, the leaks only show SOME integrated code, and even JPK could have been missing a whole lot of patches. A lot of claims made by users isn't true either.
The reason why some things haven't been fixed yet may also be because they are integrating the fixes directly into Froyo.
There is a VERY good reason why Android is quickly growing though. In fact, I'd be surprised if Android isn't #1 by next year. But I'd honestly have no problems buying another Android handset

And sorry Droid1 owners, we’re dropping support for you.

We’ve been hard at work on CM9 since Google released Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) into the wild last month, and things are slowly starting to come together. Google did a great job with ICS and added some really awesome features which in some cases replace or deprecate functionality that we had in CM7, so we are reevaluating all of our customizations. A number of devices are already up and running with CM9, and the focus is currently on getting as many devices ready as we can. The first devices (besides the Nexus S, which you can already get from Koush’s section on ROM Manager) that we’ll have ready will mostly likely be devices based on OMAP4, MSM8660/7X30, and Exynos. We also have some Tegra2 tablets in the pipeline such as the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and Asus Transformer. Our goal is to provide continued support to all CM7 devices back to the QSD8250 series of devices such as the Nexus One. I don’t want to make any promises at this time, but that is the plan. And sorry Droid1 owners, we’re dropping support for you. Time to upgrade.

What do you recommend if we have to keep our Droid1?!?
I have no philosophical problem with the Droid1 not having the latest and greatest CM ROM. I can get along without CM7 on the Droid1, since I will be going that way with my Droid Bionic "real soon now". (I'm kinda, sorta, used to this class of support, since I have about 6 Win XP/Pro boxes and a SBS 2003 server here on my SOHO network. All the current best boxes for me and my digital nerds are dual booted running top end Win7 and several flavors of Linux.
So, what is the last build that we should use, how long will it be supported and will security fixes be available?
Thanks,
/s/ BezantSoft

aoidcool said:
And sorry Droid1 owners, we’re dropping support for you. Time to upgrade.
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Click to collapse
And you plan to make this seem official... How? If the CyanogenMod developers actually said that, I might have a few unkind remarks about forced hardware upgrades to share.
For the record, I am not complaining about the lack of official CM9 support, the fact that ICS on the Droid1 would likely be a slow/buggy/needless upgrade, or anything along those lines.
What I might complain about is that the Droid1 is the most recent Android phone I would buy. Nothing newer has an unlocked bootloader, a better physical keyboard (well, minus the Nokia N900, but that's not without its issues either), a comparable screen, and the second-hand advantage: No carrier contract/spying or data plan required (Google Voice over WiFi FTW), cheaper than dirt for mobile software development, and wide availability (unlike certain Maemo/MeeGo phones).
Until a developer phone appears that meets my stingy requirements, I will continue using my Droid and experimenting with Linux software on it. I only wish that waiting for other people to do what I should be doing was easier, secure in my knowledge that someone else in the world cares about the same things I care about. What can I say, I'm lazy.
TL;DR: Telling people to upgrade when they don't have a choice is counterproductive IMHO.

gTan64 said:
And you plan to make this seem official... How? If the CyanogenMod developers actually said that, I might have a few unkind remarks about forced hardware upgrades to share.
For the record, I am not complaining about the lack of official CM9 support, the fact that ICS on the Droid1 would likely be a slow/buggy/needless upgrade, or anything along those lines.
What I might complain about is that the Droid1 is the most recent Android phone I would buy. Nothing newer has an unlocked bootloader, a better physical keyboard (well, minus the Nokia N900, but that's not without its issues either), a comparable screen, and the second-hand advantage: No carrier contract/spying or data plan required (Google Voice over WiFi FTW), cheaper than dirt for mobile software development, and wide availability (unlike certain Maemo/MeeGo phones).
Until a developer phone appears that meets my stingy requirements, I will continue using my Droid and experimenting with Linux software on it. I only wish that waiting for other people to do what I should be doing was easier, secure in my knowledge that someone else in the world cares about the same things I care about. What can I say, I'm lazy.
TL;DR: Telling people to upgrade when they don't have a choice is counterproductive IMHO.
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That first post is a quote from the cm blog. So it is 100% true.
VISION 1.5Ghz

I think a kang will show up sooner or later. There are plenty of other interesting OMAP3 devices (Nook Color for one) which should get ports, and OMAP3 doesn't have to lose 60-100MB of RAM to the radio, so with compcache and good tuning 256MB might actually be enough.
It really depends on if OMAP3 HW accell can work fully under ICS. If the Nook Color runs well, so should the Droid...

gTan64 said:
What I might complain about is that the Droid1 is the most recent Android phone I would buy. Nothing newer has an unlocked bootloader, a better physical keyboard (well, minus the Nokia N900, but that's not without its issues either), a comparable screen, and the second-hand advantage: No carrier contract/spying or data plan required (Google Voice over WiFi FTW), cheaper than dirt for mobile software development, and wide availability (unlike certain Maemo/MeeGo phones).
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so your complaint has nothing to do with software development, but with handset manufacturers. What does that have to do with CM saying they won't support what amounts to a 1st gen device?
TL;DR: Telling people to upgrade when they don't have a choice is counterproductive IMHO.
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but you do have a choice. either upgrade, or you're stuck with whatever they've already built.

:|
Well, someone'll port ics to this 3 year old POS i'm stuck with for another year.
I'd rather have a current os that doesn't run well than a outdated os that does.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using Tapatalk

Mr. Argent said:
I'd rather have a current os that doesn't run well than a outdated os that does.
Sent from my Nook Tablet using Tapatalk
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Why????
Sent from my VS910 4G using xda premium

Having no money for a off-contract phone and not being able to upgrade for a year, I have to do something to keep my original droid usable for a year. I find knowing there's a major update available and not getting it due to hardware issues annoying when the g1 got it (even if it was a laggy mess, at least it's not 2.3), which impacts it being what I consider usable.
(Also, I don't want ics launcher. Beneath the veneer of modernity it's still that stale old gingerbread.)
Sent from my nook tablet (eagerly awaiting a bootloader workaroiubd and ics) using Tapatalk.

Mr. Argent said:
Having no money for a off-contract phone and not being able to upgrade for a year, I have to do something to keep my original droid usable for a year. I find knowing there's a major update available and not getting it due to hardware issues annoying when the g1 got it (even if it was a laggy mess, at least it's not 2.3), which impacts it being what I consider usable.
(Also, I don't want ics launcher. Beneath the veneer of modernity it's still that stale old gingerbread.)
Sent from my nook tablet (eagerly awaiting a bootloader workaroiubd and ics) using Tapatalk.
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I'm in the same boat as you, I have no upgrade for a year. so i'm stuck with my D1. and i agree with your other statement a g1 can handle it yet no one is making an attempt in porting it to the D1 on top of that a 6 year old htc windows mobile phone has it with like 134mb of ram. and yet the droid still has no port whatsoever

Game over tab 8.9?

Samsung will likely release a next gen tab in Barcelona. Will this mean minimal support for our tab?
I was a big defender of android for 2 years. But i have had it. Will switch over to iphone 5 and ipad 3. Our tab rom from Samsung is suboptimal to say the least. Still no ICS. App quality still sucks for business, science, musicians etc. Improvement too slow. I thought differently 6 months ago but now it seems we can not catch up to Apple ecosystem.
I am just trying to make a rational decision, no ideological arguments.
I know I know...go ahead, hit me...
cheers
chris

There's a couple of nice ICS roms over in the development forum, I'm using the latest Galaxian Soup alpha and it's awesome.

I agree.. I'm feeling frustrated from lag and the low support from my device. Yes Apple taking the full control for IOS.. But I realise that its for good.....
Sent from my GT-P7300 using XDA App

I am still not sold on the iOS

here at the WEF
I also need to admit that I am in a bad mood right now...which prompted me to start this thread.
I am here in Davos at the wef. looking around I see only ipads. the special wef app on my tab 8.9 fcs all the time, looks terribly designed and can not be used in landscape on the tablet!
on the ipad the same app looks great andworks in landscape. that just fuelled my anger....

MelFranks said:
There's a couple of nice ICS roms over in the development forum, I'm using the latest Galaxian Soup alpha and it's awesome.
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None of the roms for the 8.9 seem to display hdmi out correctly or have other significant issues.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk

SGSChris said:
I also need to admit that I am in a bad mood right now...which prompted me to start this thread.
I am here in Davos at the wef. looking around I see only ipads. the special wef app on my tab 8.9 fcs all the time, looks terribly designed and can not be used in landscape on the tablet!
on the ipad the same app looks great andworks in landscape. that just fuelled my anger....
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Click to collapse
well but that ain't really androids or samsungs fault. if someone designs a crappy app for android and a well working app for ios then of course it will look better on ios....
as for support. the older iphones aren't getting any updates and ipad1 is missing out on a lot of features that the ipad2 got via software. so it aint like android is all bad and ios is all good.
that being said, yeah samsung is being slow releasing stuff and touchwizz is bloated crap. they should try and please people releasing updates as fast as possible instead of bloating them and making them slower.

I've only owned my sgt 8.9 for a month and I think th nhardware is fantastic and going from iphone 3-4s and my wifes ipad 2 to this android and samsung show they can pull it off better than apple in most ways.... But.....
Time between releases isn't practical, the features of true clean android os (no samsung excess besides ebook) are fantastic but samsung kill it with touchwiz and excess compulsary samsung apps, and the market is great but also it's own worst enemy. (but we cant do anything about that because its un-regulated so to speak). Been muking around with custom roms and my hats off to the develooers as they're are really trying to polish up and bring us the best experience possible but they're relying on samsung to continue support but sadly they just are developing enough for our developers to improve on.
It's sad when a combination of 2 great products with both ability, style and funding can't bring it together and focus on fewer models or realeases to perfect something thats already almost there and really flex there muscles in the face of the competition.
Sent from my GT-P7300 using Xparent Blue Tapatalk

jpbutler said:
None of the roms for the 8.9 seem to display hdmi out correctly or have other significant issues.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
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This is true, I suppose it really depends upon what you are using the tablet for.

pseudoheld said:
well but that ain't really androids or samsungs fault. if someone designs a crappy app for android and a well working app for ios then of course it will look better on ios....
as for support. the older iphones aren't getting any updates and ipad1 is missing out on a lot of features that the ipad2 got via software. so it aint like android is all bad and ios is all good.
that being said, yeah samsung is being slow releasing stuff and touchwizz is bloated crap. they should try and please people releasing updates as fast as possible instead of bloating them and making them slower.
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Click to collapse
agree, but that is why we need to consider the whole ecosystem that generates design standards, a sense of esthetics and professionalism and coolness...
samsung seems to push new bricks with better technology at a frantic speed but this does not improve usability. they are bad at engaging users and are terrible on the softwareside. It also seems that the ios ecosystem has the more demanding users that care less about tech and custom roms but overall usability.
I have my tab now for 5 months, there has not been a release of any appropriate rom by samsung for a 600$ Tablet! not acceptable...and my sgs i9000 is also not supported anymore by samsung...

I have an 8.9 and I feel your pain as well. I want Android to work out but it seems the manufacturers are only interested in the initial sale of the item, after that support dwindles quickly. Compare this to Apple who understands that your building a relationship with your customer. I think it sucks that the Kindle Fire has better support then the Galaxy Tab and most honeycomb devices.
App support with Android is poor at best. When compatibility has to be reviewed for each device by the developer (Hello hulu, netflix, & Gameloft!), you have a poor ecosystem. A number of really good games avail on the iPad do not even have Android the radar.
Still, I hang in there, because I don't like Apples restrictive system. Hoping manufacturers & developers will get on board and fix things. If it doesn't change in the next year though, I'm out and going back to iPad, because at the end of the day I want to use my device not hack it.

I can understand the frustration fully. I have an LG Optimus S, and my wife just upgraded off her Samsung Moment. Sometimes, vendor support for the latest version of android is minimal at best. In contrast, Apple EOLs their hardware, and there is no coming back from that. Every hardware update/major version release sees the previous oldest supported platform unsupported. Additionally, even the previous version sees missing features on the software side (ref iphone 4 + siri) that hafe been proven to run on the older platform.
Atleast with android, you can rely on strong dev communities to build new versions of the software in a timely manner. All weekend I ran the ICS alpha/beta and it is very nice!

I like my tab mainly for the size and form, and for 360 dollars it was a deal. It doesn't work any better them my Acer A500, which is more use full in the long run. Anyways my first android was the Samsung Moment which was terrible, htc hero, evo, nexus s, Acer A100, Acer A500, nook color, I pad 2, and now this 8.9. So I have had a lot of experience and I can surely say this is my last android mobile device. I'm tired of being a lab rat for these half baked devices all has had major problems. I don't want to have to rely on developers to fix things. I have only kept the I pad for a month and couldn't live without Google's services, but now I'm over it. Until they get more control over these manufactures to provide updates in a timely manor and manufactures fix their hardware I don't see a reason to stay. I guess the flexibility of android comes at a price and we all get burned.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk

This is a really interesting thread, because it portrays what I think would be a very different opinion versus if you asked the same question other in the dev board. And the different demographics involves paralleled a conversation I had the other day at work.
I am a complete Android head - half the appeal for me is tinkering with the thing. I see that as normal - no, actually I see that as a big part of the experience. I hate the iPad because it is so rigidly locked down in every respect. I had an iPad, but found it stifling and could get on with it even jailbroken.
I was shocked, however, when a girl at work gave a ten minute scathing diatribe on Android based on her experience with a low end Samsung phone. "But that was a low end Android phone!" I said. "It was bound to be slow and clunky. That's not a fair assessment of Android to base it on that experience. Plus, even if it was underpowered hardware, you probably could still have found a ROM for it out there that'd solve most of the problems you were having".
She didn't care. She just wanted the thing to work out of the box and her eyes glazed over when I started talking about ROMs.
It was a new perspective for me and I find myself recommending devices differently now. Time was I would have recommended the GT 8.9 unequivocally. The form factor plus hardware (in my opinion) beats anything else currently on the market. And I'd put my ICS equipped 8.9 up against any iPad in terms of user experience and I'd say it comes out on top. However, if you want a tablet that you get out of the box and use, it's not this one. The stock Samsung Android install is an abortion and unless you are happy to tweak (or have a family member who'll do it for you) it's not the device for you.
And therein lies the problem with 99% of Android devices on the market. Until vendors get over this need to differentiate their devices by adding layer after layer of bloat on top of Android, Android will continue to play second fiddle to iOS in terms of the user experience - even if that iOS user experience is rigidly controlled and prevents you from doing basic things like moving an icon a couple of spaces away from another.

I never had a problem with android until I lost my nexus one. Then I entered the world of other manufacturers devices. So far they all suck. HTC has the ****ty looking sense the I dare to define a great punch in the face to good design, Samsung is notoriously known for making good hardware but not giving a crap about the software, I'm not sure why this is, why they think that the software is not as important to the device. My next try will be with Asus, they seem to update their software on top of having decent hardware. This in regard of tablets for phones, i'll switch to a nexus device as soon as my HTC dies or the galaxy nexus comes to t-mobile.
I went through apple and i dont like the company. First of all i'm forced most of the time at work to use imacs to work on visual effects, i dont know where studio owners get their facts, but those machine sucks for production! They are designed for customers not professionals, they have the guts of a laptop and none of the benefits. Then i have a macbook that gave me nothing but hardware problems for 3 years, an iphone 4 that i can't use because its super locked to at&t and i used to have an ipod touch which died unexpectedly during a vacation. The only apple stuff i'm kinda happy about are my two ipods that still survive (and yet do not allow, me to officially get my music out of them).
So as you can see I'm fed up with apple and their shady hardware, they killed all the great professional stuff they had (shake, final cut pro, quicktime pro, apple servers and raids) and i don't think osx has any advantage over windows anymore either.
There are two faces to every coin, but I'm sure one day I will find a good tablet/phone/computer maker for my needs, it's just a trial and error job.
Good luck with Apple I hope you'll be more lucky than me!

Loccy said:
It was a new perspective for me and I find myself recommending devices differently now.
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Click to collapse
nice post mate. i totally agree with you and half the fun for me with android is the messing about and tweaking stuff. the only android phones i would recomend without thinking twice are the nexus series (because they are bloat free) and the s2 because its just and awesome device. but yeah if you have something more "consumerish" and don't feel like messing around with it you aren't gonna have the nices experience.
for the technologically unprepaired person an iProduct is probably better because it just works as they think it should (even though its awefully restrained and restricted)
DBBGBA said:
I never had a problem with android until I lost my nexus one.
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Click to collapse
i'm still running my n1 and loving it
as for apple machines for production...i have a lot to do in the video sector and we use macpros with final cut (7 not x )
i must say they are awesome machines but also have a few downsides.
they are friggin expensive (as everything apple)
they are not the error free devices everyone thinks they are. only last month we had 2 graphics cards dying 1 hdd giving up and 2 OS corruptions. so the myth about apple products not breaking down is...a myth!
so yeah if you are prepared to tinker i would go with android all the way. if you are my mum or someone else that just wants to USE something and not get involved with it...then i guess the i is the way to go.

I showed my stock skyrocket when I first bought it, she didn't even wanted to look.
Then I installed my preferred launcher (Launcher 7) and custom roms, lots of small tricks and clean ups (hid all the extra apps like Ti Backup, Root Explorer, etc.) and let the Windows Phone 7 interface dominate with big Twitter and Facebook buttons, Big camera and email button, weather. She was sold. She played with it while I was watching tv for a good while.
If the iPhone 5 will feature yet another 3.5" display, I'll take your phone no problem, she said.
I think the Android Interface, esp. the launcher, the widget handling, etc. leaves a lot to be desired. WP7 less is more approach works for some.

RipplingHurst said:
WP7 less is more approach works for some.
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Click to collapse
I agree in fact I'm very curious to try one WP7 device for a while and maybe start suggesting that instead of iphones.

SGSChris said:
Samsung will likely release a next gen tab in Barcelona. Will this mean minimal support for our tab?
I was a big defender of android for 2 years. But i have had it. Will switch over to iphone 5 and ipad 3. Our tab rom from Samsung is suboptimal to say the least. Still no ICS. App quality still sucks for business, science, musicians etc. Improvement too slow. I thought differently 6 months ago but now it seems we can not catch up to Apple ecosystem.
I am just trying to make a rational decision, no ideological arguments.
I know I know...go ahead, hit me...
cheers
chris
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you need an application that you cannot live without then go with ipad. You might be prepared that new ipad3 will blow ipad2 away but this is a bout making more and more money.
I was with Apple before Android. Now I am proud not following the iCrowd.
After stripping all bloatware and services my Sammy serves me well.
In regards to ICS I tried it on Xoom and didn't see anything vitally important.
It seems that in one year every piece of hardware becomes largely irrelevant and in two obsolete.

its still fck alpha so whats the point here??
---------- Post added at 02:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 PM ----------
qhinton said:
I like my tab mainly for the size and form, and for 360 dollars it was a deal. It doesn't work any better them my Acer A500, which is more use full in the long run. Anyways my first android was the Samsung Moment which was terrible, htc hero, evo, nexus s, Acer A100, Acer A500, nook color, I pad 2, and now this 8.9. So I have had a lot of experience and I can surely say this is my last android mobile device. I'm tired of being a lab rat for these half baked devices all has had major problems. I don't want to have to rely on developers to fix things. I have only kept the I pad for a month and couldn't live without Google's services, but now I'm over it. Until they get more control over these manufactures to provide updates in a timely manor and manufactures fix their hardware I don't see a reason to stay. I guess the flexibility of android comes at a price and we all get burned.
Sent from my GT-P7310 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
this is soooo true... despite to the fact how much i hate apple as company...
---------- Post added at 02:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 PM ----------
Adapt0r said:
If you need an application that you cannot live without then go with ipad. You might be prepared that new ipad3 will blow ipad2 away but this is a bout making more and more money.
I was with Apple before Android. Now I am proud not following the iCrowd.
After stripping all bloatware and services my Sammy serves me well.
In regards to ICS I tried it on Xoom and didn't see anything vitally important.
It seems that in one year every piece of hardware becomes largely irrelevant and in two obsolete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like to use half finished products just not to follow the iCrowd than i am sorry for u... just that.

WP8 has a limited life too?

One line in the article is scary. A nightmare revisited perhaps? That "WP8 will be supported for at least the next 18 months."
That is what a year and half? MS is known to release an update anyways not before a couple of years. So does that mean that the support of the "flagship" WP8 devices terminate even before the devices are launched?
LUMIA 900 is perhaps an example that we should be careful??
Your views?
Sent from my RaZr NeXus.

circleofomega said:
..."WP8 will be supported for at least the next 18 months." ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm.... Only Connor MacLeod, the Highlander is immortal. The lifetime of the rest stuff (including me, you and Windows) - is limited. Are you going to live forever?

You currently don't get any guarantees for longer support on any mobile platform. Apple does support it's devices longer but it is not guaranteed in any way and the iPad 1 is left out of iOS 6 although it is not that old.
The 18 months was also a plan Google announced on the IO conference last year which many manufacturers failed to live up to.
My guess (according to several interviews with Microsoft employees) is that they will not do a change to the system that goes so deep again anytime soon (where would they move as they now switched to the Desktop OSs underpinnings?). It still is a given that at some point in the future your device again won't be getting updates.
The question you are posing is if those 18 months could mean that if I buy a WP8 in 16 months it might get left behind 2 months later. Those 18 months which are guaranteed are based on the age of the device (when it was first released). A Lumia 900 kind of situation should therefore not happen again. That your device might no longer receive updates before your contract is up might happen, given that you might a) not buy the device the day it comes to market and b) the contract is regularly 6 months longer than the time frame for updates.

Where is the source with the original quote? A quick Google gives me the quote: "Microsoft will support Windows Phone 8 devices [with updates] for at least 18 months" (My emphasis).
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-will-offer-ota-updates-18-months-of-support/

bbobeckyj said:
Where is the source with the original quote? A quick Google gives me the quote: "Microsoft will support Windows Phone 8 devices [with updates] for at least 18 months" (My emphasis).
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-will-offer-ota-updates-18-months-of-support/
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Click to collapse
I can kind of see what your saying but then you could argue (especially Google) that not many devices actually get support for 18 months, So if you go and buy a new WP in Oct/Nov then it will be supported for 18 months. Unlike new Android phones, Microsoft is not fragmentated (not including WP7.8). This means ALL first gen WP8 will be supprted. New Android phones come out on a weekly basis and is NEVER guranteed to get the latest Android update (unless its a Nexus).
You could argue both ways...
I believe Microsoft will be looking after 1st Gen WP8 early adoptors, but with things changing in the world of tech who knows?
I will probably get a new WP8 and a WinRT tablet to work alongside my Xbox and my Laptop... that is an ecosystem that not even Apple can rival!

mafu6 said:
I can kind of see what your saying but then you could argue (especially Google) that not many devices actually get support for 18 months, So if you go and buy a new WP in Oct/Nov then it will be supported for 18 months. Unlike new Android phones, Microsoft is not fragmentated (not including WP7.8). This means ALL first gen WP8 will be supprted. New Android phones come out on a weekly basis and is NEVER guranteed to get the latest Android update (unless its a Nexus).
You could argue both ways...
I believe Microsoft will be looking after 1st Gen WP8 early adoptors, but with things changing in the world of tech who knows?
I will probably get a new WP8 and a WinRT tablet to work alongside my Xbox and my Laptop... that is an ecosystem that not even Apple can rival!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm..when its android I don't fear much...for obvious reason that I can root it and flash the latest OS. Not so much so with WP8. For it, I only and only have to rely on MS.
So if they decide tomorrow that my device doesn't have the necessary hardware (deja vu?), I'm screwed...
That, was my fear...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

The chances of that happening are pretty slim.
WP8 got a huge update over WP7 (i do not use the term huge lightly), which made the incompatibility stuff a problem.
Unless some huge leap in technology happens in the nest 18 months or so, we won't see this kind of problem again. It is highly likely that current wp8 will run wp9.
I for one don't think hardware will advance at such quick rate in the coming years.

mafu6 said:
I can kind of see what your saying but then you could argue (especially Google) that not many devices actually get support for 18 months, So if you go and buy a new WP in Oct/Nov then it will be supported for 18 months. Unlike new Android phones, Microsoft is not fragmentated (not including WP7.8). This means ALL first gen WP8 will be supprted. New Android phones come out on a weekly basis and is NEVER guranteed to get the latest Android update (unless its a Nexus).
You could argue both ways...
I believe Microsoft will be looking after 1st Gen WP8 early adoptors, but with things changing in the world of tech who knows?
I will probably get a new WP8 and a WinRT tablet to work alongside my Xbox and my Laptop... that is an ecosystem that not even Apple can rival!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not an argument though is it. It's simply the facts.
Google doesn't support Devices for a variety of reasons - Not least of which is that it's freeware OS, and there are several hundred devices with new ones each week.
MS have said that they will support devices for 18 months, and this is achievable, there will be maybe 50 of them by the time 18 months is up, and the manufacturer (and so in the end user) pays for the OS.
circleofomega said:
Hmmm..when its android I don't fear much...for obvious reason that I can root it and flash the latest OS. Not so much so with WP8. For it, I only and only have to rely on MS.
So if they decide tomorrow that my device doesn't have the necessary hardware (deja vu?), I'm screwed...
That, was my fear...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These type of comments mystify me. Of the following announced WP8 features which ones were you expecting to get on your current phone?
Multi-core processor support
1280x768 and 1280x720 screens
removable MicroSD cards
NFC wireless sharing

This is about indervidual devices not Windows Phone 8 itself! They are saying that from when a phone comes out you will have at least 18 months support (far more than anyone else promises) this does not mean that WP8 will be chopped up like 7! They switched kernel that's why you cant upgrade and they did that to be sure they have last ability.

U miss the point.
18 months is fine if it was Android. But WP8? From their track record, 18 months qualifies for one upgrade.
But not like other devices where even first gen phones enjoy the very last update...(how they perform is all together another argument).
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

Given that Microsoft is not going to change the Kernel again (where too - they are now running the Desktop OS on mobile devices) at least the community here will likely be able to provide those updates. Given that the original Developer phones like the LG panther have been able to receive at least OS updates using the CAB-Sender-Method this might be an option going forward.
But if it's ok for you to have the new version of the OS running in a kinda working way, with kinda weird problems and kinda annoying glitches it might be an option to go with Android. I'm running CM9.1 on my SGS2 which works without problems but it's one of their stable releases and they recently decided to ditch support for older devices with the Snapdragon S1 (which is also found in the 1st Gen WP7 devices). There are still ports around for those devices but with those it is like I mentioned above (glitches, problems, etc.)
In the end smartphones age quickly and at some point it is not really viable keeping them updated even though more than 18 months are definitely doable (but as was mentioned: no one guarantees you that it is a good experience).

circleofomega said:
U miss the point.
18 months is fine if it was Android. But WP8? From their track record, 18 months qualifies for one upgrade.
But not like other devices where even first gen phones enjoy the very last update...(how they perform is all together another argument).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If your were responding to me, then I miss the point again. I literally don't understand most of what you've said or the meaning - sorry.
Do Android phones get official updates 18 months after release? Not even all of the new release Android phones have the latest OS version.
What does "But WP8? From their track record, 18 months qualifies for one upgrade." mean? WP7 was released 2 years before WP8 will be released and all current WP7 phones will get WP7.8 which itself is not being released until after WP8 and may not be until next year, so that's well past 18 months. Also MS have stated that WP7 was a stop gap until WP8 was done, so a major OS change is not going to happen.
"But not like other devices where even first gen phones enjoy the very last update" Which phones and OS are you talking about? Apple don't have the latest OS on their oldest Iphones, and new Android phones don't all have the latest OS either. You've really confused me...
Are you complaining that MS will only guarantee to support all devices for only 18 months, while lauding the other OS makers who do less) because XDevs try to do it for them?

bbobeckyj said:
If your were responding to me, then I miss the point again. I literally don't understand most of what you've said or the meaning - sorry.
Do Android phones get official updates 18 months after release? Not even all of the new release Android phones have the latest OS version.
What does "But WP8? From their track record, 18 months qualifies for one upgrade." mean? WP7 was released 2 years before WP8 will be released and all current WP7 phones will get WP7.8 which itself is not being released until after WP8 and may not be until next year, so that's well past 18 months. Also MS have stated that WP7 was a stop gap until WP8 was done, so a major OS change is not going to happen.
"But not like other devices where even first gen phones enjoy the very last update" Which phones and OS are you talking about? Apple don't have the latest OS on their oldest Iphones, and new Android phones don't all have the latest OS either. You've really confused me...
Are you complaining that MS will only guarantee to support all devices for only 18 months, while lauding the other OS makers who do less) because XDevs try to do it for them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wasn't exactly talking to u...but since u replied:
Yes..no other OS supports older devices. Be it iOS or Android. BUT, having said that, it is as easy as turning your computer on when it comes to updating those devices..
It is..er..unethical to an extent...but who cares...I have the latest OS.
BUT, but...when it comes to WP, there is no way out. The fate of THAT device hangs in thin air. If MS decides to pull the plug, game's over.
So even though iPhones and Androids of the world see an (unofficial) update. Not so much so a WP device....
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

circleofomega said:
Wasn't exactly talking to u...but since u replied:
Yes..no other OS supports older devices. Be it iOS or Android. BUT, having said that, it is as easy as turning your computer on when it comes to updating those devices..
It is..er..unethical to an extent...but who cares...I have the latest OS.
BUT, but...when it comes to WP, there is no way out. The fate of THAT device hangs in thin air. If MS decides to pull the plug, game's over.
So even though iPhones and Androids of the world see an (unofficial) update. Not so much so a WP device....
Sent from my DROID RaZr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am really confused by this post. What you are saying is that because MS make PC's and you can update a PC they should update ll there phones forever even though nobody else does? You claim its ok for android to do it because we can hack the updates on? How would that be diff from doing it to wp??? Name me one WP that is not on the latest OS version! There isn't one.
How is MS supporting your device for its life span a bad thing esp when Android comes out outdated most of the time yet that's fine. How is having a guarantee of updates leaving you out in the air????
Total garbage so do us a favor and engage the brain instead of just being a hate monger Android fan boi

lumpaywk said:
I am really confused by this post. What you are saying is that because MS make PC's and you can update a PC they should update ll there phones forever even though nobody else does? You claim its ok for android to do it because we can hack the updates on? How would that be diff from doing it to wp??? Name me one WP that is not on the latest OS version! There isn't one.
How is MS supporting your device for its life span a bad thing esp when Android comes out outdated most of the time yet that's fine. How is having a guarantee of updates leaving you out in the air????
Total garbage so do us a favor and engage the brain instead of just being a hate monger Android fan boi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U got me all wrong my friend. I'm just saying, giving it a date "18 months" was a little scary.
Secondly I don't like Android anymore and love WP8.
MS isn't supporting my device for the lifetime and that's my worry...
Hope I'm clear now...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

circleofomega said:
U got me all wrong my friend. I'm just saying, giving it a date "18 months" was a little scary.
Secondly I don't like Android anymore and love WP8.
MS isn't supporting my device for the lifetime and that's my worry...
Hope I'm clear now...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long do you keep your phone? I heard of 2 year contracts but who actually keeps it for that time without buying out? Even if so you get guarantee of 18 months not a maximum of 18months most likely you will get longer but they have to cover themselves. Also as you said before MS is more prone to big updates hence a big one each year with a smaller in the middle meaning that you should get your 18 month update that should last until the 2 years is up before the next is out anyway. I think that covers most life of phones as it covers most contract lenghs and is far beyond what the competition is doing.

circleofomega said:
Wasn't exactly talking to u...but since u replied:
Yes..no other OS supports older devices. Be it iOS or Android. BUT, having said that, it is as easy as turning your computer on when it comes to updating those devices..
It is..er..unethical to an extent...but who cares...I have the latest OS.
BUT, but...when it comes to WP, there is no way out. The fate of THAT device hangs in thin air. If MS decides to pull the plug, game's over.
So even though iPhones and Androids of the world see an (unofficial) update. Not so much so a WP device....
Sent from my DROID RaZr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP have unofficial custom roms. The only reason that IOS and Android have more is because more people are making them, and you can't blame MS for that, especially while they guarantee to provide official updates.

bbobeckyj said:
WP have unofficial custom roms. The only reason that IOS and Android have more is because more people are making them, and you can't blame MS for that, especially while they guarantee to provide official updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my goooood....I'm misunderstood thrice in a row...IM NOT BLAMING MS...it's just a question..."IS" WP8 live short too??? Its a question... anyway
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

circleofomega said:
Oh my goooood....I'm misunderstood thrice in a row...IM NOT BLAMING MS...it's just a question..."IS" WP8 live short too??? Its a question... anyway
Sent from my DROID RaZr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then the answer is no, it is not to short.

lumpaywk said:
Then the answer is no, it is not to short.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.. that is the reply I'm looking for...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.