Database Develop

Why should verizon/moto unlock our bootloaders?

It appears that there is a guy who is interning at Motorola that wants to get ahold of some bigwigs and help voice our frustration. Here is a link if you have any ideas, please share them!
http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/xty65/i_am_interning_at_a_major_fortune_500_company_who/

Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands

DoubleYouPee said:
Why wouldn't they? They'll only lose the majority of the tech-geek community to other brands
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.

jesusishere said:
Some speculate that they hold a special contract with Verizon. This contract basically says: keep your bootloaders unlocked and you will be our flagship phone company. You will be in all our ads.
I just hope someone could post a convincing argument for that intern to use to further our cause.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would they need to have a locked bootloader to have that contract?

VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol

Here is the reason boot loaders are locked...
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.

vbhokiefan said:
VZW always said it ws for the "health" of the network. That rooted devices would cause it harm.
Well, one, the Nexus is unlocked so where is the concern there? and 2. I haven't heard of any gnex causing harm to the network.
I'm guessing its because when we all found wifi tether on the OG, the network suffered. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well nowadays all data plans are being metered anyways. If I buy 2GB per month why does Verizon care if its used on my laptop instead of my phone for example. There was a recent FCC lawsuit against Verizon for separate tethering charges because it went against some agreement they had when they bought the 4G spectrum.
ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.

spunker88 said:
Simple, unlocking your bootloader voids the warranty and the user would agree to this before running the factory bootloader unlock program. There would also have to be an easy way to tell if the bootloader had been unlocked on a bricked phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)

doogald said:
From a Verizon point of view, this remains problematic. The issue is that a user with a hardware problem that lost warranty support is likely to still be angry at Verizon for not supporting the phone; even somebody with a software issue who gets no help could express anger at Verizon and decide to leave the network for another carrier (where the cycle start again, probably.) It's a matter of control - it's hard enough supporting a ton of phones, it makes it even harder when you cannot even predict what's on the phone. And from Verizon's point of view, their brand is strong enough that they feel that they can exert this control without angering enough users to matter.
(Still, the reasons I listed above are easily solved if the OEMs provide all of the tools required to bring a phone back to stock...)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1

ratman6161 said:
...and are likely to remain locked. It's because they don't want you messing with it. Read throughout the various Android forums and you will find over and over again people talking about how they screwed up their phone and got the carrier to replace it for them. I've seen some practically bragging about how they've screwed Verizon and got them to replace the phone 3 and 4 and more times. As long as this keeps happening, they will resist allowing unlocked boot loaders.
About the only way it will ever happen is if they went to a scheme like Asus has with it's transformer series tablets. Basically they lock it. But they also provide an unlocking tool. This unlocking tool basically has warnings all over it that say that if you do it, your warranty and any claim to support are void...and we do not want to hear from you. But even then on the Transformer Prime forum on XDA you hear people complaining about problems with their unlocked device and seeking advice on how to re-lock it so they can screw the company into taking it back (Asus also made unlocking an irreversible process).
For the manufacturers and carriers there is just no incentive to unlock them. By locking them they cede the enthusiast market to a large extent but that market is a drop in the bucket compared to the market as a whole.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really like this argument though, because most of those bricks are CAUSED by the locked bootloaders and other "security" put into place. These phones are just computers with radios inside. I've never bricked my (desktop or laptop) computer, and neither have most people, because computers have been designed such that the process that brings the computer up (the BIOS) is simple, reliable, and will load anything you tell it to, negating the need to mess with it.
The OG Droid was borderline software unbrickable, because you could leave the stock bootloader in place, and the stock bootloader was able to get you back home (SBF) by itself. If all phones were built like this today, and manufacturer's had a utility to restore the phone back to stock available on their website, the people returning devices due to softbricking would probably go way down, because a softbrick would be no big deal.

Came across something strange today.....

Few things I want to get straight, I in no way shape or form tampered with this device. I am an AT&T employee and came across this while setting a customer up with his new S5. This is how it came brand new sealed out of the box. Also, I understand the photo is blurry. This is due to the fact that the screen did not stay up long. I snapped as fast as I could before I had to take it back because it was actually extremely buggy and kept freezing. Just felt the need to to share with the guys. Looks like some are being missed in the lock down lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app

bnicsk8guy said:
Few things I want to get straight, I in no way shape or form tampered with this device. I am an AT&T employee and came across this while setting a customer up with his new S5. This is how it came brand new sealed out of the box. Also, I understand the photo is blurry. This is due to the fact that the screen did not stay up long. I snapped as fast as I could before I had to take it back because it was actually extremely buggy and kept freezing. Just felt the need to to share with the guys. Looks like some are being missed in the lock down lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you tell what software version its running?

That doesn't mean the bootloader is unlocked. It simply means that the devices scanning utility (SysScope it was called on the S4) detected a change to a file. In the case of the phone you had, it sounds like it was probably do to a faulty board or failing software in a bad unit. The S4s are known to show "custom" for absolutely no reason at all or because of something on the SD card. It usually reverted back to official after a couple of reboots. I'm not trying to be confrontational by asking this, but how can you be an AT&T employee and not know this? Like I said, this question is not a personal attack, but I am wondering if AT&T gives any training on how these devices work in real life and not just on the shelf. Either way, I promise you the bootloader is still locked on that device. The unlocked symbol and custom have nothing at all to do with the bootloader.

Mine shows that also
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

pingfl00d said:
Mine shows that also
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too. Still not exactly sure what it means unless it's the developer options being enabled.
Edit: Just checked and it's not the developer options...and mine doesn't have the unlock icon anymore actually. I think scott14719 is probably right.

nizbot said:
Me too. Still not exactly sure what it means unless it's the developer options being enabled.
Edit: Just checked and it's not the developer options...and mine doesn't have the unlock icon anymore actually. I think scott14719 is probably right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm right. If you want more information about it you can search the AT&T S4 forum for relevant threads. There really is a lot of information about it that might answer a lot of potential questions.

scott14719 said:
That doesn't mean the bootloader is unlocked. It simply means that the devices scanning utility (SysScope it was called on the S4) detected a change to a file. In the case of the phone you had, it sounds like it was probably do to a faulty board or failing software in a bad unit. The S4s are known to show "custom" for absolutely no reason at all or because of something on the SD card. It usually reverted back to official after a couple of reboots. I'm not trying to be confrontational by asking this, but how can you be an AT&T employee and not know this? Like I said, this question is not a personal attack, but I am wondering if AT&T gives any training on how these devices work in real life and not just on the shelf. Either way, I promise you the bootloader is still locked on that device. The unlocked symbol and custom have nothing at all to do with the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T provides training that is optional for new devices, but there is an article released with relevant information to sell the phone. They do not train employees to check bootloaders, for root, for knox warranty, etc. None of my coworkers know what a bootloader is or what it means to be locked or unlocked. Edit: No training provided by AT&T mentions root, jailbreak, bootloaders, etc etc.
To be on topic, after I switched to ART, the Custom unlocked pad came up, when I switched back to Dalvik, the Custom unlocked padlock went away.

I am also an AT&T COR store employee and none of my coworkers know about that kinda stuff. Not a lick of training is given on that.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I'll try not to take offense to that....lol. No AT&T does no training for these things. And to be honest with you I am usually pretty knowledgeable when it comes to these things. I have been out of the Samsung scene for a while ( Due to me using my more developer friendly Nexus 5 or my new HTC One M8) so I am now unfamiliar with how these devices handle certain things. I have yet to do anything like change my runtime on the device do to the fact that it only made minor performance changes to my Nexus 5. If I would have I probably would have gotten the same boot screen and then eventually thought nothing of it. Just had a little moment of excitement while on the job lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app

bnicsk8guy said:
I'll try not to take offense to that....lol. No AT&T does no training for these things. And to be honest with you I am usually pretty knowledgeable when it comes to these things. I have been out of the Samsung scene for a while ( Due to me using my more developer friendly Nexus 5 or my new HTC One M8) so I am now unfamiliar with how these devices handle certain things. I have yet to do anything like change my runtime on the device do to the fact that it only made minor performance changes to my Nexus 5. If I would have I probably would have gotten the same boot screen and then eventually thought nothing of it. Just had a little moment of excitement while on the job lol.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely no offence intended. I just wish AT&T, Bestbuys, etc... would do a better job of training the people that they expect to sell these devices. Most people don't know the everyday quirks of most devices unless they are given an oppertunity to learn about them.

scott14719 said:
Definitely no offence intended. I just wish AT&T, Bestbuys, etc... would do a better job of training the people that they expect to sell these devices. Most people don't know the everyday quirks of most devices unless they are given an oppertunity to learn about them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Careful what you wish for!! Last thing I need is someone checking whether my Knox has been tripped or my bootloader unlocked when I do a return :laugh:

As AT&T employees you better get ahold of some higher ups, and let them know they are going to lose lots of customers due to the lock down on their bootloaders of their devices. Many people are ready to switch.

pcidiot said:
As AT&T employees you better get ahold of some higher ups, and let them know they are going to lose lots of customers due to the lock down on their bootloaders of their devices. Many people are ready to switch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they don't care and anything this guy says will most likely anything this guy says will be ignored

cyberace1985 said:
they don't care and anything this guy says will most likely anything this guy says will be ignored
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems to me they should care, they could lose 100's if not 1000's over the next 4 years.

pcidiot said:
Seems to me they should care, they could lose 100's if not 1000's over the next 4 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But in the grand scheme of things 100 to thousands isn't that big of a loss. for an example with the s5 I can almost guarantee we are just a small subset of s5 owners the largest portion will never know what root is or have any idea what to do with it. The money they take from the larger portion will cover the expected returns from the 1% who are upset and or mad that they locked the BL.

cyberace1985 said:
But in the grand scheme of things 100 to thousands isn't that big of a loss. for an example with the s5 I can almost guarantee we are just a small subset of s5 owners the largest portion will never know what root is or have any idea what to do with it. The money they take from the larger portion will cover the expected returns from the 1% who are upset and or mad that they locked the BL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your right partially but grand scheme of things = all of their devices that are locked not just s5's. I am just saying that, they are always seeming to pull more customers in with new deals so gaining customers is important to them. So not losing customers should also be important in the same aspect no matter what the percentage is. If they don't care then shame on them.

pcidiot said:
Your right partially but grand scheme of things = all of their devices that are locked not just s5's. I am just saying that, they are always seeming to pull more customers in with new deals so gaining customers is important to them. So not losing customers should also be important in the same aspect no matter what the percentage is. If they don't care then shame on them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They would love to get everyone 100% satisfied but realistically its impossible so they shoot for the highest number of satisfied people

pcidiot said:
Seems to me they should care, they could lose 100's if not 1000's over the next 4 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No they won't. Who are they going to switch to? Tmobile? Tmobile will be locking down their bootloader as soon as they get the chance. Only reason why they haven't already is because they need as many customers as they can get. Same reason they kept downloader booster...even though they can't afford to keep it. Not to mention, the average user doesn't give a crap about bootloaders or download boosters.

I got the custom message after applying ART.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using xda app-developers app

cyberace1985 said:
But in the grand scheme of things 100 to thousands isn't that big of a loss. for an example with the s5 I can almost guarantee we are just a small subset of s5 owners the largest portion will never know what root is or have any idea what to do with it. The money they take from the larger portion will cover the expected returns from the 1% who are upset and or mad that they locked the BL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right I seen an older couple at the att store buying both s5's and it looked like they did not know anything about root. Etc. They are buying the device because of its features and camera. Not saying older people don't mess with the bootloader or anything.
MOTO X SLAPPED

[DISCUSSION] Are unexploitable bootloaders putting an end to US development?

I will not state the obvious with the exception of this: If you can not root a device much less install a custom recovery, development essentially means absolutely nothing to you.. In this case what is the new definition of open source? "Open source" made android what is today.
All opinions from different perpectives are welcome--but please mind your Ps and Qs.
Thanks....
EDIT: I firmly believe that xda members must be patient. However, there must also be a realistic reckoning. That is to say--hypothetically speaking--if it takes five years to create an exploit, for all practical purposes one could consider that bootloader impregnable considering the exponential pace of technological advancement. So, if one is measured in their assessment and comments, it is closer to the truth and a heck of a lot more useful to talk in terms of "X" device has a bootloader that can not be unlocked. If for example the S4 is "cracked" say--three years from now, will anyone care? Will development restart? Finally, like with any choice, it's up to the individual to decide what can be considered "hard locked." For me, I guessed that the S4 would be leaked an unlock after the S5 came to market. Obviously my reasoning was wrong. At any rate, my ship has sailed--I can be patient no more.
But remember here we are assuming for the sake of a discussion that these bootloaders will not be exploited and if that is the case will that spread to the point that US development dies on the vine.

I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.

LoSt180 said:
I thought unlockable bootloaders WERE promoting US development. The T-Mobile S5 subforum is buzzing, and it's crickets around here. It's these locked bootloaders that cause some frustration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.

numbR7 said:
I think your right about T mobile. But they come with bootloaders that allow rooting and Installation of a custom recovery (I.e. unlocked).. When I say unlockable I am refering to carriers like At&t and Verizon. Take a look at their forums--you can almost hear crickets! As they are "locking down" one might wonder if it will spread especially as a carrier attains its target market share through promotions and even merger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
T-Mobile is unlockable the HTC One M8 is unlockable, AT&T and Verizon S5 variants are not unlockable - we can't unlock them.

Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL

As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, givit helpsng hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't agree more. I think it's good you emphasize the truth as I helps newer people understand.

eortizr said:
As it was said by a mod in another thread, giving hopes to users that the AT&T/Verizon's S5 will get root anytime soon is just unfair for the users. It will not happen. The AT&T Note 3 got root when in 4.3, but there is no root in the horizon for KitKat don't even think about an unlocked bootloader. The same happened to the S4 after it was updated the bootloader and root is now lost and that has been for many, many months and on a phone that it had a very large development. Developers are not even bothering on wasting their time on AT&T/Verizon because there is the TMO and International versions available.
So to answer the original question my answer would be Yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.

cstayton said:
There is a fine line between giving false hope and nurturing fears, saying "It will not happen" is not necesarily true, it may not happen, but then again remember some who waited for a year to get root or those with iphones who waited for a year to jailbreak.
just my opinion is all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, when I said 'it will not happen' i was referring to the 'anytime soon' statement.

I agree that saying "it's coming soon" is probably not the best phrase to use. However, to say it will never happen is just as bad. It simply did not and has not happened as fast as we want it to. There is always someone smarter when it comes to computers and software. I am sure the devs have a life outside of hacking a phone for us and everyone needs to be patient. Plus the fact with the Knox security, I am sure the devs want to find all possible work arounds. Just my opinion though...
Sent from my AT&T Samsung Galaxy S5.

What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

I love to use custom Roms etc.However when you buy a phone, buy it for what it is not for what you want it to be later on. The fact that there is no root is what keeps me using my GS4 more than this phone but the S5 is a solid Device, has great battery life (for me at least) and gets everything I need done. Its a matter of being patient especially for any who own the 4 and know how Samsung and ATT locked the previous iteration of this phone.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Premium HD app

baldwyn said:
What I've come to realize in my years of owning Android devices and reading these posts on xda is that virtually nothing is impossible. However, that is a double-edged sword meaning that the manufacturers have had to step up their collective games to make it even harder for exploits to be found. AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses. I can understand that to a point. However, I would gladly pay AT&T and even sign a waiver to let ME take the risk solely upon myself to do what I would like with MY phone. It's idiots that ruin it for the rest of us. Such as the world, I guess. Just my two cents.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain how these so-called "idiots" are the reason AT&T and Verizon "had" to lock down the devices. I don't understand.

AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
AT&T and Verizon are protecting themselves from the idiots who don't know what they're doing and brick their devices or get them infected with viruses.
I think I kinda explained it right there.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app[/QUOTE]
Yes - I get that statement. But, how are they protecting themselves. That is, how are they harmed by these "idiots?" Further, if one were to extrapolate users from population, roughly 96% of mobile phone users in the world don't seem to pose a significant problem to thier carriers as it is only the NA carriers that do this ("hard" lock the bootloader). Then, futher hone that to say maybe 1.5%, at the most, US users root their phones. Then narrow further by device. If these numbers are even close--how many of these "idiots" are there. You've been around long enough to know some of the so-called "idiots" were accomplished developers. I do not want to argue with you. I am genuinely intetested in why you see it this way.

rachelm920 said:
Not being able to unlock the bootloader, I believe is going to end development, at least for AT&T and Verizon. If I had the cash, I probably would've went with the T-mobile version, but I'm not rich like that LOL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol

numbR7 said:
Have you checked into the buyout and trade in promotions T Mobile has? Maybe you can switch with little or no pain. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm so god damn sick of this OTA sh... I was at work and it rebooted and started installing by itself. I tried to pop the battery but no matter what I do it continues the installation.
I'm moving to T-Mobile. Thanks ATT!

I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to whom I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get them infected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app

baldwyn said:
I'm sorry my off-the-cuff remark has gotten out of hand. The idiots to who. I am referring are the ones who brick their phones or get thefected by lack of knowledge and then try to blame the carrier instead of taking the responsibility themselves. As a precaution, I can see AT&T locking their devices down in an attempt to prevent that from happening. I understand it's a small number of people that cause this or are even affected by this, but by doing so, AT&T can better control their integrity. Same reason why a bag of peanuts sometimes says "Caution: Contains nuts." C.Y.A.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's cool. Posts are often taken wrong or worded differently than someone else is used to talking. I see your point. It makes sense. I may be a little too jaded (to put it nicely) to let them off the hook that easily though. Lol.

After my purchase of the new Samsung galaxy s5 on AT&T I will state that this will be my last carrier specific purchase,
My girlfriend has the HTC M8 (I had one also but hated the freaking pics from the camera).
This was another example of lesson learned, I will from now on purchase nexus devices or not locked to a carrier specific devices, or Google play edition devices from now on.
No more jumping the gun paying full retail to get phones on release day screw that. Lesson has been learned here for sure.
I am thinking on sending my Galaxy S5 into http://www.maxback.com and then purchasing a nexus 5, then later this year when the new nexus is available,I can pick one of them up.. But im kind of stuck as I love the camera on the s5.... this is what is holding me up...
Sure we and disable the bloatware on the Samsung and all that fun stuff, but there is a world of difference when all those items are gone
Thanks to the awesome developers here on XDA making some kickass roms for us.
I run the kingkat on my girlfriends HTC m8 from the HTC forums and it is so much faster with all of the bloatware and features she was never going to use gone.. that m8 is night and day in speed difference and usability..
Bottom line If we are here we have the mindset to tinker and to tinker on these devices WE need to stop buying locked down phones..

AT&T Unlock Bootloader petitions

Petitions to unlock bootloader on the AT&T Samsung Galaxy s5​
I'd like to have control over my phone because I paid a lot of money for it. I'd like to install a cleaner/faster ROM without all of the bloatware that comes stock. Android is an OPEN SOURCE mobile operating system, we should not be locked down from improving the quality of our smartphones. I have found some petitions that put effort into making it possible to give us our right to have our bootloaders unlocked.
Advantages of an unlocked bootloader:
# Developers will make a wide selection of custom ROMS and Kernels that will improve the speed of the phone, these can't be installed until our bootloader is unlocked.
# Rooting the phone will become a lot easier.
# With root access we can overclock our CPU to make the phone faster.
Disadvantage to an unlocked bootloader:
# IF you don't follow instructions to flashing correctly you can permanently brick your device. This is not a problem if you know what you're doing and/or follow directions very carefully.
LINKS
#1 change.org petition for Samsung AND Verizon
#2 Change.org petition for all androidsmarphones/tablets/etc
If anybody knows of anymore let us know in the comments!!
DISCLAIMER NOTES
## NEVER FLASH A ROM ON YOUR PHONE IF IT IS NOT MADE FOR YOUR SPECIFIC MODEL UNLESS THE DEVELOPER SAYS IT IS OKAY.
## i AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGES YOU MAY CAUSE TO YOUR PHONE, OR ANYTHING ELSE.
You may discuss this in further detail in this thread. However, arguing, trolling, slandering, bickering, and anything else that will clutter this thread and overwork the moderators WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. This thread is not the thread to argue with others over the details since the idea is already in marketing. If you wish to argue or troll, please take it somewhere else. And, as always, please follow the forum rules. Thank you for looking at this thread.
For those who are concerned with the warranty, please read this. Huge thanks to @shootind5nukes for this info.
Just so everyone knows the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act prevents someone from totally VOIDING a warranty. Verizon/Samsung could only deny to warranty something if they can prove something you did cause the issue. Anything that has nothing to do with what you did still has to be under warranty. If you LCD started to lose color or get dead pixels that would still have to be covered because that has nothing to do with bootloaders and flashing ROMS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act
"The federal minimum standards for full warranties are waived if the warrantor can show that the problem associated with a warranted consumer product was caused by damage while in the possession of the consumer, or by unreasonable use, including a failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance."
I learned about this when I was going to get my truck lifted. I was told if I did it would VOID my truck's warranty. After looking into it further it didn't actually VOID anything. But for example if I went in to get my suspension fixed because it broke they could argue that the lift kit put stress on the suspension and that's why it failed so they would not have to cover it. But if my motor exploded because it was made out of cheese it would still be under warranty, the entire warranty can never be voided. Only damage caused by what you did. Food for thought guys.
If anyone has anything to add please do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like my posts to be very clear and grammatically correct. If I could have worded anything better or made any mistakes, please let me know so I can correct it.

Don't hold your breath.

Good luck. I did the same thing. And nothing. Golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Att has the gold in this case.

GDofWR420 said:
Good luck. I did the same thing. And nothing. Golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Att has the gold in this case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're probably right, but just putting in an effort here. I'm hoping that the FCC finds this similar to carrier locking, they changed the laws for carrier locking because of petitions: http://www.fcc.gov/device-unlocking-faq

i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.

i root SGH i777 said:
i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't expect one. I've complained on their page multiple times and the only thing that came of it was getting blocked.

There's not enough demand for anyone to put any effort into freeing our bootloader. These petitions have been up for months and haven't reached the minimum requirements. Just get used to TW ROMs or don't support either AT&T or Samsung with the next phone you get and go the Stock Android path.

UnhoIy said:
There's not enough demand for anyone to put any effort into freeing our bootloader. These petitions have been up for months and haven't reached the minimum requirements. Just get used to TW ROMs or don't support either AT&T or Samsung with the next phone you get and go the Stock Android path.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Much agreed. I see a nexus device in my future

Just signed it. If they don't, it'll be hacked anyway.

I signed it. My signature by itself means nothing. My signature along with many others may help.

i root SGH i777 said:
i actually just today put a complain on at&t's facebook page about use wanting a bootloader unlocking tool like with htc phones. i have heard no reply yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm merely going to point this out, Complaining to ATT for a tool to unlock the bootloader is the wrong place to complain, it is HTC that provides the way to unlock the BL you would need to post that complaint on the Samsung webpage or facebook page

signed

Two more votes required!

signed both

i bought my s5 before i knew about the locked bootloader, so now im selling to buy a g600f

Isriam said:
i bought my s5 before i knew about the locked bootloader, so now im selling to buy a g600f
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not a bad idea really...
Sad to think that we may never truly own our devices here....g

Signed.. Where's a good place to sell a S5 att
Sent from my SM-G900A using Xparent BlueTapatalk 2

Signed

LG G3 just got hacked Oct 11th. Hopefully the same hacker will focus on KLTEATT

cstayton said:
I'm merely going to point this out, Complaining to ATT for a tool to unlock the bootloader is the wrong place to complain, it is HTC that provides the way to unlock the BL you would need to post that complaint on the Samsung webpage or facebook page
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T won't provide a tool for the unlocking but I'm quite confident they are the ones that asked for it as other network providers offer unlocked phones. I believe the S5 from T-Mobile is unlocked and the international is unlocked. A complaint to Samsung might push them to play hardball with AT&T like HTC and I believe Motorola have so really complaining to both is the best route. I hold out little hope for a change in stance but maybe the pummeling by Apple will help change minds.

Locked Bootloader

So WTF? Is this what we have to deal with from now on. Why can't I go back to Lolipop if it came with it, if I want? Now I am stuck on 1 and only version of an OS with no way back. Is everyone going this direction, or who are the companies to look at, because I think my Note 4 will be my last in a long line of Samsung products. 1

It didn't come with lollipop, I'm sure security it the reason why they also won't let people roll back updates.

bjones7134 said:
So WTF? Is this what we have to deal with from now on. Why can't I go back to Lolipop if it came with it, if I want? Now I am stuck on 1 and only version of an OS with no way back. Is everyone going this direction, or who are the companies to look at, because I think my Note 4 will be my last in a long line of Samsung products. 1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Get used to it. If it is a mainstream phone, it'll likely have a locked bootloader. The OEMs make far more money from the masses, governments, and corporations for whom security is an issue than they do from the minuscule number of consumers who want custom ROMs.
It looks like Google's Pixel will come with a locked bootloader if that tells you what direction this is going in.

douger1957 said:
Get used to it. If it is a mainstream phone, it'll likely have a locked bootloader. The OEMs make far more money from the masses, governments, and corporations for whom security is an issue than they do from the minuscule number of consumers who want custom ROMs.
It looks like Google's Pixel will come with a locked bootloader if that tells you what direction this is going in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Verizon one will.

pcriz said:
The Verizon one will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see where it's just as easy to unlock the bootloader on a non Verizon phone as it was in the olden days.

douger1957 said:
I see where it's just as easy to unlock the bootloader on a non Verizon phone as it was in the olden days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Pixel is essentially just a rebranding of Nexus, and Verizon wanted to be different so they asked for their bootloaders to be locked. Everything else should be business as usual.

pcriz said:
Well Pixel is essentially just a rebranding of Nexus, and Verizon wanted to be different so they asked for their bootloaders to be locked. Everything else should be business as usual.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I read that the pixel was going to be unlocked. Then again since phone not out yet no telling if it's true or not. I'd imagine Verizon will be but if ordered from Google directly I doubt it, they can Care less what you do with your phone.