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Hey all, I have been reading like crazy for months, have donated to the site and to some of the developers as well as pledging to the driver cause and doing my best to contact everyone from HTC to people in the press who have covered the issues as well as contacting people/organizations who haven't covered the issues yet.
I have searched and read everything I can about getting audio IN to the Kaiser and haven't seen much activity concerning the subject, so I thought it would be cool to create a thread that deals with this issue. I am going to use this thread to document my experiments. I believe this is the best way I can give back to the community aside from the financial support I show developers etc.
I am a pro musician & producer and want to use Meteor to record song ideas while I am traveling. I am looking to get line level signals into my HTC TYtN II and using the Meteor multi track recorder
http://www.4pockets.com/product_info.php?p=82
It would be very cool to use Meteor to write and record song ideas when I travel. It doesn't have to be super high quality audio, I just want to have a recording of my song ideas so I don't forget them. I have a little electronics device I plug my guitar in that makes it sound like a guitar amplifier. Think of it as a type of audio player for guitars that has an output like an ipod or whatever. I have a little drum machine and a synth keyboard and things like that (they all use line level signals). I do not want to use a microphone I want to use a line level signal from other devices.
Using this diagram
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Trinity_EMUConnector
.... I am looking to get an electronics technician to make me a custom plug that will let me get audio into the TyTN II. I suspect that it will be a mic level signal as opposed to a line level signal but I am not sure about this. I have a great deal of experience with music gear, and very little experience with hand held devices in terms of understanding the hardware.
I suspect that whatever audio does get into the Kaiser will be treated as a mic signal, even if a direct signal is used (unless sendign data via USB is possible). I am going to try and get the tech to make a couple of custom cables using HTC's proprietary ExtUSB connector, but if I cant get one made for ExtUSB, I will get cables made that will work using one or more of the the inputs on a 3 in 1 adapter as seen here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-in-1-USB-3-5m...ryZ15040QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I am assuming audio applications will be able to "see" the audio once it is sent via the connection.
Some things I am looking into:
1. What format the TyTN II will use for audio that is sent in to it through a custom cable?
2. What kind of quality will the audio will be? WHat kind of control will we have over that audio?
3. Will it be stereo capable or just mono? I am fairly certain that only mono audio is possible via the mic input part of the ExtUSB input.
4. I wonder if audio can be imported in real time via USB connection or if audio can only be imported via the pins that enable a mic for phone use?
Like I said, I will share what I find out and if anyone happens to have ideas or knowledge please reply in this thread.
There are other uses too, aside from using multi track audio applications. If I can get this to work (I am pretty sure I can) , how would you use it?If you have ideas, perhaps you can sHare ways we could take advantage of importing audio into the Kaiser.
Bump this, i have been thinking about this also, if it had 2 seperate headphone and mic plugs, the adaptors for say a guitar or bass would be basic, since the mic is mono and so are the insturments. If i had the tools for micro-miniature soldering, i'd be able to do it easily. but i dont, so if any1 wants to make a couple, i would purchase it in a heartbeat.
You can use meteor or any recorder on the handset, if you're in a quiet room the internal mic does record sound pretty good. if there was a way to do multi tracks at the same time(multiple leads) now that would be something.
Yep, big bump from me. MeTeor is fantastic, having a little recording studio anywhere is great. However, getting a line-in would just open up everything!
Caleb
Greetings:
Over the years I've owned many HTC devices and have always used them as a media player as its main secondary function, usually with CorePlayer as my main software. The one thing I noticed was that when it came to playback, all of my non-Dream phones were relatively quiet (very low noise/artifacts) when it came to music playback.
Ever since I got the G1 (running stock, no mods) I've noticed that there's a huge difference in the audio section-when using the wired adapter, I get lots of noise/artifacts (very noticeable with low playback volume) and I get an incredible amount of GSM chatter (which was rare in my other devices.)
Anyone else noticed this? Any fixes/workarounds? (I'm waiting for the Android port of CorePlayer, maybe that might fix some of the quality issues>)
Audio quality is something that the G1 lacks in my opinion right out of the box, compared to other mobile phones. If you have a rooted mobile though, I would have a look at the Meltus Audio mod (had a look at my signature).
The new V6 version of the audio mod increases audio, clarity and adds a bit of bass
wazmo said:
Greetings:
Over the years I've owned many HTC devices and have always used them as a media player as its main secondary function, usually with CorePlayer as my main software. The one thing I noticed was that when it came to playback, all of my non-Dream phones were relatively quiet (very low noise/artifacts) when it came to music playback.
Ever since I got the G1 (running stock, no mods) I've noticed that there's a huge difference in the audio section-when using the wired adapter, I get lots of noise/artifacts (very noticeable with low playback volume) and I get an incredible amount of GSM chatter (which was rare in my other devices.)
Anyone else noticed this? Any fixes/workarounds? (I'm waiting for the Android port of CorePlayer, maybe that might fix some of the quality issues>)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've noticed it a lot as well. Unfortunately, this has been both out of the box (stock) and rooted with any firmware whatsoever. It's a lot more obvious in my Bose earbuds, since they're noise-canceling, but it's unavoidable all the same.
I haven't tried Meltus's full app yet, just the lite version on the website, but as we speak, I'm on the Market buying it :]. But I've heard it's nothing but amazing, so I would give that a shot too.
Along the same lines, when ripping CDs or converting audio files, what would the ideal bitrate be for use with stock headphones?
The reason I ask is I'm under the impression that if we encode at too high of a bitrate, it will do nothing to increase the sound quality but will suck up more of our limited phone memory (not sdcard space, but useable memory for running apps). Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.
blueheeler said:
Along the same lines, when ripping CDs or converting audio files, what would the ideal bitrate be for use with stock headphones?
The reason I ask is I'm under the impression that if we encode at too high of a bitrate, it will do nothing to increase the sound quality but will suck up more of our limited phone memory (not sdcard space, but useable memory for running apps). Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use AAC-HE exclusively on phones-I find that using a 56 kbps conversion does a decent job regardless of the headset.
I have no knowledge of which encoding methods causes the greatest impact to running memory usage.
I've recently acquired a new car which has a built in stereo system (Renault Megane Estate 2012 Bose edition) which is able to receive CBR encoded A2DP streams. It works well, connects, music plays, even controls work.
Awesome!
Using catlog I can see that the bitpool that is negotiated is 51. While the sound isn't horrible, I believe the handsets (Samsung Galaxy SIII Int. and Nexus 7, both running CM10 nightly) are able to encode and transmit at a higher bitrate/bitpool then currently is set.
I've tried my best effort in changing this settings. I've built my own Ubuntu kitchen, followed all the guides and have from the looks of it compiled a successful ROM image. Sadly enough when I flash it, my tablet dies (black screen) and even CWM is destroyed. Using fastbood and USB I've been able to recover the tablet, so no problem there, but still, no working ROM. Even without changing something. But that is not what this thread is for, I'll figure that out eventually.
I am trying to recreate the results that are in the following topic : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1880298
Sadly, the files provided are not compatible with my CM10 devices and changing the source and then compiling it and replacing the files yields no result. Whatever I try, it stays at 51 (The bitpool it SENDS to the radio as max). There are several files which are connected to the settings, such as cbr.c , audio.a2dp.default.so, etc. but I don't really know what to change to get the desired results.
If anyone is able to help, that would be greatly appreciated. Point me to the right file where I can find the values to change, either in a compiled ROM or in the source so that I can compile it and change the files in
my running ROM using rootexplorer. Whatever works.
I would like to try settings as high as 125. But ideally, I would like to experiment what my headunit accepts, what it can be forced to, and thus finding the highest quality possible using my combination of equipment.
In this the Nexus 7 is the most important because that will be permanently located in the car.
update--
I have found a thread on bluez surrounding this topic.
http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-bluetooth/msg23091.html
Could someone more knowledgeable then me please take a look at this for me and maybe change the file? Sadly that goes way beyond my programming knowledge, but I would really love to give it a try!
update--
Some extra information and a good explanation as to why I am looking for this (and maybe more people with me).
Bitpool values as high as 128 are possible on Windows Mobile devices (including mine), which means they are possible in A2DP. Such a high value is necessary for some genres of current music, which are highly
compressed (the problem was once discussed in one of Xiph Foundation's articles). SBC is unable to encode such material properly if it doesn't have enough bandwidth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done some more tests editing and replacing files and I think I've actually gotten it to sync higher but it still displays it's at 51. The sound just sounds a lot better, but of course, that can always be a placebo effect. :silly:
So, anyone have any insight, or who can point me into the right direction of what needs to be changed and where? As said, I think I have reached the quality increase (bitpool 100) but the logs still display 51.... not quite there yet. And in light of people using the Nexus 7 in a cars a lot (which I also intend) and the borked headphones output I read everywhere, CD quality streaming over A2DP (It's possible) would be awesome!
Kitchen fixed
So I got my kitchen working and am cooking working ROM's.
Just getting the right files changed is giving me some problems.
I think I fixed most of it, but for some reason when I check the logs it still states that it's sending a max bitpool of 51. I believe in the background it's using the 128 as I stated in the source files, but still. I would like the logs to show the same, just to acknowledge I'm a not having a placebo effect.
The files I have changed are the following:
/android/system/external/bluetooth/bluez
a2dp.c
gsta2dpsink.c
gstscenc.c
liba2dp.c
pcm_bluetooth.c
I used the patch listed above on the pcm_bluetooth.c. And I do believe it overrides the settings and it's not set to 51 anymore but the 128 I put in all the files manually. Music sounds great, but it's hard to subjectively test.
Hopefully we can find some people who have a greater understanding of bluez.
Little kick
Little kick to see if someone wants to assist me on this or not. I think it could potentially benefit a lot of people making Bluetooth audio/A2DP go from barely adequate to High Fidelity!
I'd love to help you test this - I also find the A2DP quality to be lacking in a lot of more "active" or compressed music. Acoustic and softer music sounds great, but rock/metal tends to sound like a 128kbps mp3. It actually seems to sound better from my Galaxy Nexus than the 7 as well. I'm running a Bugless Beast ROM now but was running CM10.
Also, not sure if you've seen this but I found an article (soundexpert.org/news/-/blogs/bluetooth-audio-quality-a2dp, sorry can't post links yet) that shows the bitrate per bitpool value. At a bitpool value of 53, the bitrate is around 320kbps. A2DP itself supports a bitrate of up to 512kbps for stereo, but through other optionally-supported codecs. SBC however, in this profile, only seems to go to ~320. It might be worth checking out if your car stereo supports mp3 over A2DP - there is an option in /etc/bluetooth/audio.conf to set MPEG12Sources from 0 to 1 and SBCSources from 1 to 0.
ROM up for download
Hi there, thnx's for joining the cause.
I compiled a new daily today with settings set to bitpool 128. But I don't really hear much change, maybe the setting is too high, maybe something else is going wrong. As stated above, in the logs I can only see it sending 51 as max pool to the device and setteling with it. But since I'm using an edit pcm_bluetooth.c it should override that setting, say it's going to do 51 and then stream and the values I defined in the files.
.....in theory at least...... the only subjective evidence I have for this are my own ears.
So, I will provide you with access to the 128 version and am going to compile a 64 version while I'm at it.
Use an FTP client to connect to:
host: oss.quindorian.org
user: XDA
pass: ROMROM
Anyone is welcome to give it a try. I have put limits on the FTP site, so please beware of that. But I'll put ROM's there you can try and report back on. Tell me if you think it does nothing or if you think it makes it sound like a singing angel. Any feedback is appreciated.
As source I use the CM10 repository so I am basically building modded nightly builds. Today it allready has the 4.1.2 flavor with the newest drivers and everything included. Don't forget to flash gapps if you need them.
Understand
ChrisK15 said:
Also, not sure if you've seen this but I found an article (soundexpert.org/news/-/blogs/bluetooth-audio-quality-a2dp, sorry can't post links yet) that shows the bitrate per bitpool value. At a bitpool value of 53, the bitrate is around 320kbps. A2DP itself supports a bitrate of up to 512kbps for stereo, but through other optionally-supported codecs. SBC however, in this profile, only seems to go to ~320. It might be worth checking out if your car stereo supports mp3 over A2DP - there is an option in /etc/bluetooth/audio.conf to set MPEG12Sources from 0 to 1 and SBCSources from 1 to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I understand what that article says. But for me, the quality just isn't up to par to listening to a 320Kbit stream. Also, there is what A2DP officialy supports and there is what works. I'm shooting for the last type. If I can get a 1000Kbit stream between my device and my headunit, I will, even if it doens't add much above say 786Kbit, more is always better in this case. If it works that is, ofcourse.
Because I wish to use spotify, I believe my only choice is to use the SBC encoder. Spotify will never let you transfer it's source file to anywhere because of DRM. Alternativly, if we could enable an AAC stream or something (also supported I believe) we'd need less bitrate/bitpool for better quality! And from what I have read, the SBC encoder standard used it just quite crappy. So while a 320Kbit LAME encoded MP3 might sound great/perfect, using a sub-standard encoder can still give it artifacts and low quality. Thus the hunt for insane amounts of bitrate!
Awesome, I'll definitely give it a shot. If it's possible to exceed the Bluetooth standard spec then that'd be awesome. I'm more worried about our receivers not being able to support the higher bandwidth - my head unit is new but only supports SBC unfortunately.
Cool
ChrisK15 said:
Awesome, I'll definitely give it a shot. If it's possible to exceed the Bluetooth standard spec then that'd be awesome. I'm more worried about our receivers not being able to support the higher bandwidth - my head unit is new but only supports SBC unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool, I just put the bitpool64 version there too. Tested it and I notice no real difference. Sadly the quality is still not great, it's not horrible.... but certainly not great so I still feel like my settings are maybe not having any effect whatsoever. As reflected by the logs using catlog. It sen bitpool 51 max and settles for that. For all the values I have changed in the files and that stay the same, I really do not understand. Wish I could fix that, but with my knowledge I have just run out of places where to look.
Let me know if in your case it makes any difference!
I just tried it out and to me it seems like there's an improvement. I normally stream Pandora One in my car, and that definitely seemed like it had more clarity. However Google Music streaming sounded the same, although it was already good to begin with. I would think that compressing more highly-compressed music from the start (Pandora) would have a worse effect on quality than less-compressed music, which seems to be the case. Or maybe I'm just hearing things
Thanks for looking into this, I've been trying to find a way to do this for a while!
Quindor said:
Hi there, thnx's for joining the cause.
I compiled a new daily today with settings set to bitpool 128. But I don't really hear much change, maybe the setting is too high, maybe something else is going wrong. As stated above, in the logs I can only see it sending 51 as max pool to the device and setteling with it. But since I'm using an edit pcm_bluetooth.c it should override that setting, say it's going to do 51 and then stream and the values I defined in the files.
.....in theory at least...... the only subjective evidence I have for this are my own ears.
(...) .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
perhaps you can test if the patch does anything - by setting bitpool to some very LOW value ?
ChrisK15 said:
It might be worth checking out if your car stereo supports mp3 over A2DP - there is an option in /etc/bluetooth/audio.conf to set MPEG12Sources from 0 to 1 and SBCSources from 1 to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my CM12.1 official nightly ROM (2015/12/03) for my Samsung i9505, there is no file audio.conf
Does that mean I can simply create it with the two lines
MPEG12Sources=1
SBCSources=0
in order to test wether a bluetooth SNK device such as a car stereo or a headset supports mp3 over A2DP?
So does anyone have some actual logs or HCI captures showing bitpool above 53?
..
I have already got MK808 android stick, which is 1.2 GHz dual core with Mali 400 GPU.
After using it long as general purpose device, decided to convert it as media centric device, with 2.1 speaker setup
I am facing following limitations,
1. Not able to play HD/1080 videos smoothly
2. Tried USB sound card to connect it to 2.1 speaker, but quality is not good
So I started to look for alternate devices. I liked RPI 2 especially due to it's support, but before buy, I have some questions unanswered
1. Since I have 1.2 GHz device, I am just wondering with RPI 2 being 900 MHz, is it powerful enough device as media PC. Especially can we consider it for future proof (may be 3 years)? I am thinking because, I don't want to fall in situation to buy another device only after next 1 year due to RPI2 limitation.
2. When I add case, WiFi dongle, power cable, HDMI cable etc, it's going to about 75 USD. At this price, there are many choices like,
# Android stick MXIII, which seems more powerful with android support
# Dedicated media player like,
http://www.amazon.in/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=media+player
But I don't know, how to compare those with RPI 2 and conclude which one will be more powerful and future proof
Any suggestion?
RmatriX1218 said:
I have already got MK808 android stick, which is 1.2 GHz dual core with Mali 400 GPU.
After using it long as general purpose device, decided to convert it as media centric device, with 2.1 speaker setup
I am facing following limitations,
1. Not able to play HD/1080 videos smoothly
2. Tried USB sound card to connect it to 2.1 speaker, but quality is not good
So I started to look for alternate devices. I liked RPI 2 especially due to it's support, but before buy, I have some questions unanswered
1. Since I have 1.2 GHz device, I am just wondering with RPI 2 being 900 MHz, is it powerful enough device as media PC. Especially can we consider it for future proof (may be 3 years)? I am thinking because, I don't want to fall in situation to buy another device only after next 1 year due to RPI2 limitation.
2. When I add case, WiFi dongle, power cable, HDMI cable etc, it's going to about 75 USD. At this price, there are many choices like,
# Android stick MXIII, which seems more powerful with android support
# Dedicated media player like,
http://www.amazon.in/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=media+player
But I don't know, how to compare those with RPI 2 and conclude which one will be more powerful and future proof
Any suggestion?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been using Raspberry Pi 2 B+ for a month as media center with the Rasplex OS. I have tried 1080p, 720p and a few different formats like mp4 mkv, avi etc and they all work fine, even while seeking. The main reason for this could be that the processing/trans-coding of the video is done on the server(the files are not stored on Pi, and no HDD is connected to it.) This all works on a WiFi adapter.
If You can use Plex app on Your Android Stick and use a plex server somewhere, You won't need to buy a Pi. Although You would need to buy Plex pass to come over restriction in Android app I think.
Rpi 1 can run almost limitless video bitrate via smb share. But it has issues with very heavy audio since 1 pi's processing power is not great basically. But mines 1 still run movies with 10mbps video and 5mbps audio well. Above that it starts to buffer maybe its network bottlenecking. Audio quality via hdmi is great. I got a pi 2 just a while ago looking forward to test it with openelec. I have chromecast stick too i think that i wouldn't need rpi if i didn't had media at local share. Chromecast is far more better if u use only netflix, viaplay, youtube, popcorn, etc and can use it with android device phone/tablet.
Thanks for replies.
Has anyone connected it to 2.1 speaker system?
Because, that is my one of the aim.
Can anyone tell quality if connected to AV cable/stereo jack?
And, is it possible to get video through HDMI cable and audio through AV cable to 2.1 speaker?
Can someone, who already have similar configuration, help me out to build similar one.
RmatriX1218 said:
Thanks for replies.
Has anyone connected it to 2.1 speaker system?
Because, that is my one of the aim.
Can anyone tell quality if connected to AV cable/stereo jack?
And, is it possible to get video through HDMI cable and audio through AV cable to 2.1 speaker?
Can someone, who already have similar configuration, help me out to build similar one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, it can output both video through HDMI cable and audio through AV cable at the same time.
Nypan sr said:
Yes, it can output both video through HDMI cable and audio through AV cable at the same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you rate quality through AV cable out?
I believe, AV out doesn't give good quality as HDMI.
Through USB sound card on my MK808, I am loosing bass. Woofer doesn't give any sound.
I am worried, same should not be with RPI as I'll loose all fun of watching movies.
Anybody with 2.1 speaker setup hear?
RmatriX1218 said:
How do you rate quality through AV cable out?
I believe, AV out doesn't give good quality as HDMI.
Through USB sound card on my MK808, I am loosing bass. Woofer doesn't give any sound.
I am worried, same should not be with RPI as I'll loose all fun of watching movies.
Anybody with 2.1 speaker setup hear?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HDMI is better. My 2.1 system is connected to my LG-tv, so i dont know what quality the 3,5 mm output is.
Nypan sr said:
HDMI is better. My 2.1 system is connected to my LG-tv, so i dont know what quality the 3,5 mm output is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, my LED TC has onlu audio jack. So, if I connect 2.1 system with it, I get very low volume.
So, only option to get sound from RPI AV jack.
Can you check in your system with AV jack and report the difference in output?
Any though on
RPI2 vs MXIII vs MXQ?
RmatriX1218 said:
How do you rate quality through AV cable out?
I believe, AV out doesn't give good quality as HDMI.
Through USB sound card on my MK808, I am loosing bass. Woofer doesn't give any sound.
I am worried, same should not be with RPI as I'll loose all fun of watching movies.
Anybody with 2.1 speaker setup hear?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Composite video out quality is pretty good. On OpenELEC, playing 720p live stream Russia Today. Output is classic PAL resolution. Image quality is better than 576p SD DVB-S thru SCART with good quality sat reciever. I have big old widescreen CRT Panasonic Quintrix TV.
If you play any 720p movie, quality will be comparable to DVD player with SCART.
I dont know how is your audio input for these 2.1 speakers. Just single 3 pole 3.5mm or also separate one for subwoofer? If it need 2 connectors then you need 5.1 sound card with (usually orange) center/subwoofer connector.
I think you should turn up your headphone volume on your tv
Sent from my thl T6S using XDA Free mobile app
Ideal for local media or media on a NAS but not being able to access Netflix, Hulu etc (like you can on Android) might be a bit of a put off. Shame really coz the Pi2 is more than powerful enough to support these streaming services
Need some help to recorder exactly whats playing with quad dac and the exact same quality, native by software. Don't tell me using another sound card or mics. Can USB recorder do that? Do you know other software? Also it needs to leave quad dac enabled...
Trying to figure out if this is possible and if it has solutions. If not, maybe with a laptop, but what kind of software or external sound card can capture the exact same 32 bit data from the quad dac? Please help.
no UAPP cannot do this. there is no solution short of maybe root and even then I've never come across anything close.
more critically... engaging the quad DAC inherently means you are converting to analog. your request to avoid sound cards or mics is nonsensical, because an analog signal needs to be converted back to digital bro.
FYI if your intention is to rip music from streaming services, that's a whole different operation (encryption etc). I believe it is only possible with Google Play Music (Tidal has proprietary MQA encoding).
just tell me what you're really trying to do, maybe there's a better way.