http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/editorials/qualcomm_htc_chipsets_and_feat.html
thats the link to a statement from a qualcomm "insider" about driver issues. I think both companies are going to keep dropping the ball in each others courts till it gets picked up at court.
Interesting stuff.
This article pisses me off even more.
So my analysis was correct at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1853684&postcount=761 .
Qualcomm has an inferior implementation of ARM11 that was supposed to be supplemented by other acceleration circuitry. Since HTC only paid for the ARM11 part and Qualcomm doesn't really have drivers for the other parts, we get what we got.
Of course, HTC is still to blame for not catching this during the R&D and selling-to-market inferior parts. They should've stayed XScale + SiRFIII.
Oh boy, HTC should not use Qualcomm then ... What's wrong with other processor? Hmmm, yeah, Qualcomm is cheap .. I meant "can be" cheap
I can say one thing after reading that. I have owned 3 HTC devices so far, and still have them all to date. But with this mess that both companies have made i dont think il be buying another HTC product until they sort out their processors. This was a royal mess and if they just stopped trying to blame each other and started working together, they would have alot of happier consumers who would willingly return their business to HTC/qualcomm. As it stands i am quite against qualcomm processors and HTC devices with their processors in them.
Looks like its time to research another WM device manufacturer
I think Qualcomm has definately got some of the best hardware, though maybe not the best marketing team. Htc Is pretty good at design. Both should figure something out about this, if neither puts out the money, I think they will end the partnership maybe? Nvidia has a nice fone comming out. It plays quake 3 flawlessly. one shortcomming though, no keyboard lol. I really hope HTC and Qualcomm work this out. I got the Tilt in hopes that they will and it will live upto expectations
Here are my computer's specs:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...4322&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN
Only difference is that it's been upgraded to 4Gb of RAM.
My issue is this: My cpu cooling fan recently died and my comp has been overheating and shutting down. Under load it's been as high as 97*C before shutdown. Obviously I need a new fan but getting THAT hot has to be bad for the CPU so I might as well upgrade while I'm in there. I was just told by HP support that my motherboard (Narra2-GL8E) will only handle CPUs from 45W to 65W. I was really hoping to upgrade to amd 64 x2 6400+ processor but according to them it would be wayyy too much for the motherboard. I'm operating under the assumption that the rep was full o' **** and feeding me some standardized response so as not to encourage me to do something that *could* possibly be damaging to my pc.
My question is what's the best processor can I realistically upgrade to with my current set-up??
I've got the Pavilion Elite m9402f, almost exact same specs, except it has 7GB of RAM, and runs at 2.3GHz. Watch that GPU, it sucks! Seems like the NVIDIA card isn't supplied with enough power. It prob isn't the reason for the overheating, but if you use any graphic-intensive apps/games, it may not help the issue.
Believe it or not, but the HP rep may have been correct. Your motherboard won't support CPU's with the designation AM2+. When AMD released the AM2+ CPU's, they intended them to be backwards compatible with existing AM2 motherboards. However, most manufacturers have refused to release the BIOS updates to allow this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM2+
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c01080282&lc=en&cc=ca&dlc=en&product=3445425
The 6400 is a special CPU that actually should have been released for the AM2+. But since the HT speed is the same as your stock processor, the wattage won't matter. I will warn you, the 6400 has been known to have severe overheating issues. You'll likely spend a good chunk in a high quality heatsink/fan for the processor.
The HP site doesn't list a PSU. What is the rating on yours? That may be what the rep was referring to... I couldn't imagine HP building a machine with more than enough wattage for the internal components. Usually PC Manufacturers cut those things pretty close to keep costs down.
I ended up deciding to err on the side of caution and bought an x2 5600+ processor to throw in there. My power supply is only 250W and that's definitely on the list of things to replace. Gonna need a better power supply to put a half decent GPU in there. Going to install the new CPU and heatsink/fan tomorrow and see if that doesn't help. I have a feeling there are other issues though...to be continued..?
**As a confusing little edit to the situation..upon closer inspection it turns out that the cpu fan IS actually working. So now I'm even more lost. It's understandable to run hot with no fan..but with a fully functional fan?!**
Hi
I noticed that in Nexus 9 they had implemented a seperate chipset between the MDM9625 and APQ?8084.
Am I am wondering what is the reasoning or advantage in doing this if Qualcomm can provide a single chip solution MSM and achieve the same thing.
A seperate chip solution would obviously take more real estate.
Thoughts?
Delete. Sorry, misread your post.
Any number of reasons. They may have lost something in the MSM version, the 2 chips may have been cheaper, the MSM may not have been as easily available and the two chips were available.
How about because they HAVE NO MSM version of the SD805.
The highest MSM is the SD800 aka SD801 in the MSM8974. The equivalent [non-existent] 805 would have a part number of MSM8984, which does not exist. So if you want the newer Adreno (to run the QHD display), or the 64 bit memory (double the memory bandwidth = way better performance), then you need the APQ8084.
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/04/in-depth-with-the-snapdragon-810s-heat-problems/
This articles above shows that you don't always get what you paid for when you buy the newest bleeding edge tech. It's about the the thermal throttling in the Snapdragon 800 series SoC's. The good ones the bad ones and it def hows a pattern of things being worse off during the beginning of a number in the in the "x" placement ----> 8x0.
Seems like big buyers are being experimented with a bit, tisk, tisk.
Now let's discuss
I would like to see this test redone with all SoCs undervolted as far as they will go.
I just want to add 2 things to this discussion:
1) Every mobile device will throttle at some point. This is the only way the SoC is able to manage its temperatures in a device that has zero active cooling. Either the user stops using the phone and it cools down or they continue using it and it will throttle.
2) It is the phone manufacturer's responsibility to design a phone and chassis that can support the thermal requirements of the SoC they have chosen for their device. If a phone over heats or the SoC is so throttled that it can never reach it's maximum clock speed (such as the Snapdragon 810 in the HTC M9) then the phone was designed poorly (based on the required specifications) and they should have chosen a lower power SoC.
I can't understand what manufacturers are looking for when they pack such CPUs in their flagship phones: the speed of a SD 801 is still cutting edge, and it has been the only chip capable of combining acceptable power consumption with top performance lately.
I'm a N5 owner, and really can't complain about speed, but that is just because CPU-intensive tasks, like rendering a webpage or opening an app, often last for just a few seconds, during which the phone doesn't heat up enough for thermal throttling to intervene. I rarely play games with my phone.
If Qualcomm focussed on reducing power consumption in the last couple of years, instead of searching for overly high performances, now we'd probably have phones with the SD 800's speed, but lasting two days, and with consistent performances during every kind of usage.
Damn it Qua!comm instead of jamming reference cores in to chips get cracking optimizing drivers to get more performance out of existing products. The Adreno driver overhead is embrassing.
pgptheoriginal said:
I can't understand what manufacturers are looking for when they pack such CPUs in their flagship phones: the speed of a SD 801 is still cutting edge, and it has been the only chip capable of combining acceptable power consumption with top performance lately.
I'm a N5 owner, and really can't complain about speed, but that is just because CPU-intensive tasks, like rendering a webpage or opening an app, often last for just a few seconds, during which the phone doesn't heat up enough for thermal throttling to intervene. I rarely play games with my phone.
If Qualcomm focussed on reducing power consumption in the last couple of years, instead of searching for overly high performances, now we'd probably have phones with the SD 800's speed, but lasting two days, and with consistent performances during every kind of usage.
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The Exynos 7420 delivers better performance, better thermal management and better efficiency.
thermal throttle, whats that?? ive disabled thermal throttle on every nexus thats ever had it, since the n4 that's the n4, n5, and now n6. but the n6 is the best at not getting hot. as i cant get it over 82C ever.
The problem is and it applies to terrible battery life is thin phones. We just do not need skinny phones. It's like women. We have been brainwashed into thinking thin phones and thin women are both sexy. I dislike women with a toastrack ribcage and would love my nexus 5 to be twice as thick. No throttling and huge battery life...
Sent from my Nexus 5
flamingspartan3 said:
The Exynos 7420 delivers better performance, better thermal management and better efficiency.
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Only because its on 14nm, if it would be built on 20nm it would throttle down just like the sd810. This isn't so much qualcomm's fault as it is arm's fault, the a53/a57 cores are simply too power hungry, the sd805 with a7/a15 cores barely gets throttled at 20nm.
zerosum0 said:
The problem is and it applies to terrible battery life is thin phones. We just do not need skinny phones. It's like women. We have been brainwashed into thinking thin phones and thin women are both sexy. I dislike women with a toastrack ribcage and would love my nexus 5 to be twice as thick. No throttling and huge battery life...
Sent from my Nexus 5
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I agree with the battery part... As for women I like a nice toned women.
peachpuff said:
Only because its on 14nm, if it would be built on 20nm it would throttle down just like the sd810. This isn't so much qualcomm's fault as it is arm's fault, the a53/a57 cores are simply too power hungry, the sd805 with a7/a15 cores barely gets throttled at 20nm.
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your post conflicts by itself lol.
Also the 805 is a krait 400(or 500 can´t remember) architeture based on the a50 (the 800/801 are a15, and the 400 is based on the a7 with some variants based on the a9). Basicly the 805 runs a proprietary cpu architeture made after the a50 one, with the armv8 instruction set.
However the 810 runs the a51/53 instruction set, with no modifications, straight from ARM.and that´s something qualcomm didnt do for a long time,and as we can see the 810 WAS rushed to the market(the whole 64bit race)
Now for the thread, talking about the 800 series (since its what we have),it seems to have a good performance-heat ratio,however we feel it on our nexus due to poor thermal design, in the case of the n4/n5 the shield used to spread the heat don´t even touch the SOC lmao.
Talking qualcomm in general, i cant understand why they still have fails, having more than 15years of experience (10+ being with their own custom cores) i would expect them to not have these issues, but they still do.Also not going back much to the past, see the snap S4 gen 1 series(i.e the krait 200 variants, USA´S S3, Nexus 4 and such), they also have hw bugs(for instance, only the first core can go to fully deep sleep), thats something i would expect for a new player, not one with 15 years of experience(to make things even worse, qualcomm has been on the ARM market pretty much since the ARM arch/instruction set came out)
Also to OP, the 615,610,410,210 are all good socs, so the YXY pattern isn´t something here
However i must remember you guys, the one to blame here after all IS qualcomm, we dont have fully documentations and technical details or for most of you(including me) fully understanding of how a cpu is made / works but the a51 / 53 cores itself are fine, one player to see its the exynos 7220 on the s6, it runs a MALI gpu(which is from ARM,) and runs a53/51 architeture with a few modifications(not to the arch itself, but to the chip, make more thermal efficient, support samsung own branded chips, modems ,etc) and it runs better than the 810.
Also what made the 810 look worse is the drivers, adreno drivers sucks (sorry for the word, but this is more of a rant), my 4 year old MALI 400MP gpu haves about the same performance as my 2013´s adreno 330 (s3 exynos 4420 + mali 400mp vs nexus 5 snap 800 + adreno 330)
@opssemnik No way your mali 400MP is faster than an andreno 330
pk-sanja said:
@opssemnik No way your mali 400MP is faster than an andreno 330
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It really isnt in raw power or optmized games(gta sa and the newest NFS)but on the rest(even gta vice city) my s3 can keep up, and in fact due to better thermal design it can outstand the n5 after some time of playing
Nothing wrong with toned. But this craze of super thin is crazy. As for batteries if some one had come out with a replacement back with a huge battery inthat sloped to the camera that clipped in to replace the other I'd of been in heaven. My Nexus is in a heavy Spiegen case and I'm always amazed how skinny it is when I take it out to clean. I prefer it in the case. Feels better built
Sent from my Nexus 5
As of right now, If I could pick any phone in the world I would still choose the Nexus 6.
I am considering the possibility of trying to replace the SD801 with a new Snapdragon SoC.
I am fully aware that it could be nearly impossible to physically remove from the motherboard, but if I figure out a way to put in a newer processor, would it even work?
Would there be conflictions with the software, being 32 bit vs a newer 64 bit processor, etc?
Has anyone heard of this being done on any device before?
Well, the N6 uses a Snapdragon 805, not an 801, so there you go in that regard. The 805 is the last 32-bit SoC Qualcomm made, and I believe all subsequent chips from Qualcomm, from their entry level processors to the forthcoming 845, are 64-bit. This presents a huge technological hurdle. Assuming that it was possible to create a board that could interface with the 805's solder pads that the 64-bit SoC could sit upon, the new SoC may well end up being slower than an untouched board. The board only has a 32-bit address bus while the chip has a 64-bit address bus. Half the lines in the address bus would remain unused, which hinders performance. Think of it as being like the old Intel 286 processor for the PC. The 286 internally was a 32-bit processor, but it only had a 16-bit address bus which negatively impacted performance as the limited size of the address bus created a data bottleneck. The 386 would resolve this issue by increasing the address bus size.
Assuming you could bypass the technological hurdle, you then have a software hurdle. The existing kernel for the N6 wouldn't work with the new SoC, so you'd have to create a new one from scratch with support for the new SoC included as well as support for all the N6's existing hardware. The version of Android compiled will end up being 32-bit, as the main gain from switching to a 64-bit processor is the ability to address 4GB or more of RAM, which the N6 does not have. If you built a 64-bit version of Android performance would be reduced further due to the address bus issue.
People in China have replaced lower capacity flash memory with higher capacity versions, but never a SoC.