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Hey all, I have been reading like crazy for months, have donated to the site and to some of the developers as well as pledging to the driver cause and doing my best to contact everyone from HTC to people in the press who have covered the issues as well as contacting people/organizations who haven't covered the issues yet.
I have searched and read everything I can about getting audio IN to the Kaiser and haven't seen much activity concerning the subject, so I thought it would be cool to create a thread that deals with this issue. I am going to use this thread to document my experiments. I believe this is the best way I can give back to the community aside from the financial support I show developers etc.
I am a pro musician & producer and want to use Meteor to record song ideas while I am traveling. I am looking to get line level signals into my HTC TYtN II and using the Meteor multi track recorder
http://www.4pockets.com/product_info.php?p=82
It would be very cool to use Meteor to write and record song ideas when I travel. It doesn't have to be super high quality audio, I just want to have a recording of my song ideas so I don't forget them. I have a little electronics device I plug my guitar in that makes it sound like a guitar amplifier. Think of it as a type of audio player for guitars that has an output like an ipod or whatever. I have a little drum machine and a synth keyboard and things like that (they all use line level signals). I do not want to use a microphone I want to use a line level signal from other devices.
Using this diagram
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Trinity_EMUConnector
.... I am looking to get an electronics technician to make me a custom plug that will let me get audio into the TyTN II. I suspect that it will be a mic level signal as opposed to a line level signal but I am not sure about this. I have a great deal of experience with music gear, and very little experience with hand held devices in terms of understanding the hardware.
I suspect that whatever audio does get into the Kaiser will be treated as a mic signal, even if a direct signal is used (unless sendign data via USB is possible). I am going to try and get the tech to make a couple of custom cables using HTC's proprietary ExtUSB connector, but if I cant get one made for ExtUSB, I will get cables made that will work using one or more of the the inputs on a 3 in 1 adapter as seen here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/3-in-1-USB-3-5m...ryZ15040QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I am assuming audio applications will be able to "see" the audio once it is sent via the connection.
Some things I am looking into:
1. What format the TyTN II will use for audio that is sent in to it through a custom cable?
2. What kind of quality will the audio will be? WHat kind of control will we have over that audio?
3. Will it be stereo capable or just mono? I am fairly certain that only mono audio is possible via the mic input part of the ExtUSB input.
4. I wonder if audio can be imported in real time via USB connection or if audio can only be imported via the pins that enable a mic for phone use?
Like I said, I will share what I find out and if anyone happens to have ideas or knowledge please reply in this thread.
There are other uses too, aside from using multi track audio applications. If I can get this to work (I am pretty sure I can) , how would you use it?If you have ideas, perhaps you can sHare ways we could take advantage of importing audio into the Kaiser.
Bump this, i have been thinking about this also, if it had 2 seperate headphone and mic plugs, the adaptors for say a guitar or bass would be basic, since the mic is mono and so are the insturments. If i had the tools for micro-miniature soldering, i'd be able to do it easily. but i dont, so if any1 wants to make a couple, i would purchase it in a heartbeat.
You can use meteor or any recorder on the handset, if you're in a quiet room the internal mic does record sound pretty good. if there was a way to do multi tracks at the same time(multiple leads) now that would be something.
Yep, big bump from me. MeTeor is fantastic, having a little recording studio anywhere is great. However, getting a line-in would just open up everything!
Caleb
I've recently acquired a new car which has a built in stereo system (Renault Megane Estate 2012 Bose edition) which is able to receive CBR encoded A2DP streams. It works well, connects, music plays, even controls work.
Awesome!
Using catlog I can see that the bitpool that is negotiated is 51. While the sound isn't horrible, I believe the handsets (Samsung Galaxy SIII Int. and Nexus 7, both running CM10 nightly) are able to encode and transmit at a higher bitrate/bitpool then currently is set.
I've tried my best effort in changing this settings. I've built my own Ubuntu kitchen, followed all the guides and have from the looks of it compiled a successful ROM image. Sadly enough when I flash it, my tablet dies (black screen) and even CWM is destroyed. Using fastbood and USB I've been able to recover the tablet, so no problem there, but still, no working ROM. Even without changing something. But that is not what this thread is for, I'll figure that out eventually.
I am trying to recreate the results that are in the following topic : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1880298
Sadly, the files provided are not compatible with my CM10 devices and changing the source and then compiling it and replacing the files yields no result. Whatever I try, it stays at 51 (The bitpool it SENDS to the radio as max). There are several files which are connected to the settings, such as cbr.c , audio.a2dp.default.so, etc. but I don't really know what to change to get the desired results.
If anyone is able to help, that would be greatly appreciated. Point me to the right file where I can find the values to change, either in a compiled ROM or in the source so that I can compile it and change the files in
my running ROM using rootexplorer. Whatever works.
I would like to try settings as high as 125. But ideally, I would like to experiment what my headunit accepts, what it can be forced to, and thus finding the highest quality possible using my combination of equipment.
In this the Nexus 7 is the most important because that will be permanently located in the car.
update--
I have found a thread on bluez surrounding this topic.
http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-bluetooth/msg23091.html
Could someone more knowledgeable then me please take a look at this for me and maybe change the file? Sadly that goes way beyond my programming knowledge, but I would really love to give it a try!
update--
Some extra information and a good explanation as to why I am looking for this (and maybe more people with me).
Bitpool values as high as 128 are possible on Windows Mobile devices (including mine), which means they are possible in A2DP. Such a high value is necessary for some genres of current music, which are highly
compressed (the problem was once discussed in one of Xiph Foundation's articles). SBC is unable to encode such material properly if it doesn't have enough bandwidth.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done some more tests editing and replacing files and I think I've actually gotten it to sync higher but it still displays it's at 51. The sound just sounds a lot better, but of course, that can always be a placebo effect. :silly:
So, anyone have any insight, or who can point me into the right direction of what needs to be changed and where? As said, I think I have reached the quality increase (bitpool 100) but the logs still display 51.... not quite there yet. And in light of people using the Nexus 7 in a cars a lot (which I also intend) and the borked headphones output I read everywhere, CD quality streaming over A2DP (It's possible) would be awesome!
Kitchen fixed
So I got my kitchen working and am cooking working ROM's.
Just getting the right files changed is giving me some problems.
I think I fixed most of it, but for some reason when I check the logs it still states that it's sending a max bitpool of 51. I believe in the background it's using the 128 as I stated in the source files, but still. I would like the logs to show the same, just to acknowledge I'm a not having a placebo effect.
The files I have changed are the following:
/android/system/external/bluetooth/bluez
a2dp.c
gsta2dpsink.c
gstscenc.c
liba2dp.c
pcm_bluetooth.c
I used the patch listed above on the pcm_bluetooth.c. And I do believe it overrides the settings and it's not set to 51 anymore but the 128 I put in all the files manually. Music sounds great, but it's hard to subjectively test.
Hopefully we can find some people who have a greater understanding of bluez.
Little kick
Little kick to see if someone wants to assist me on this or not. I think it could potentially benefit a lot of people making Bluetooth audio/A2DP go from barely adequate to High Fidelity!
I'd love to help you test this - I also find the A2DP quality to be lacking in a lot of more "active" or compressed music. Acoustic and softer music sounds great, but rock/metal tends to sound like a 128kbps mp3. It actually seems to sound better from my Galaxy Nexus than the 7 as well. I'm running a Bugless Beast ROM now but was running CM10.
Also, not sure if you've seen this but I found an article (soundexpert.org/news/-/blogs/bluetooth-audio-quality-a2dp, sorry can't post links yet) that shows the bitrate per bitpool value. At a bitpool value of 53, the bitrate is around 320kbps. A2DP itself supports a bitrate of up to 512kbps for stereo, but through other optionally-supported codecs. SBC however, in this profile, only seems to go to ~320. It might be worth checking out if your car stereo supports mp3 over A2DP - there is an option in /etc/bluetooth/audio.conf to set MPEG12Sources from 0 to 1 and SBCSources from 1 to 0.
ROM up for download
Hi there, thnx's for joining the cause.
I compiled a new daily today with settings set to bitpool 128. But I don't really hear much change, maybe the setting is too high, maybe something else is going wrong. As stated above, in the logs I can only see it sending 51 as max pool to the device and setteling with it. But since I'm using an edit pcm_bluetooth.c it should override that setting, say it's going to do 51 and then stream and the values I defined in the files.
.....in theory at least...... the only subjective evidence I have for this are my own ears.
So, I will provide you with access to the 128 version and am going to compile a 64 version while I'm at it.
Use an FTP client to connect to:
host: oss.quindorian.org
user: XDA
pass: ROMROM
Anyone is welcome to give it a try. I have put limits on the FTP site, so please beware of that. But I'll put ROM's there you can try and report back on. Tell me if you think it does nothing or if you think it makes it sound like a singing angel. Any feedback is appreciated.
As source I use the CM10 repository so I am basically building modded nightly builds. Today it allready has the 4.1.2 flavor with the newest drivers and everything included. Don't forget to flash gapps if you need them.
Understand
ChrisK15 said:
Also, not sure if you've seen this but I found an article (soundexpert.org/news/-/blogs/bluetooth-audio-quality-a2dp, sorry can't post links yet) that shows the bitrate per bitpool value. At a bitpool value of 53, the bitrate is around 320kbps. A2DP itself supports a bitrate of up to 512kbps for stereo, but through other optionally-supported codecs. SBC however, in this profile, only seems to go to ~320. It might be worth checking out if your car stereo supports mp3 over A2DP - there is an option in /etc/bluetooth/audio.conf to set MPEG12Sources from 0 to 1 and SBCSources from 1 to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I understand what that article says. But for me, the quality just isn't up to par to listening to a 320Kbit stream. Also, there is what A2DP officialy supports and there is what works. I'm shooting for the last type. If I can get a 1000Kbit stream between my device and my headunit, I will, even if it doens't add much above say 786Kbit, more is always better in this case. If it works that is, ofcourse.
Because I wish to use spotify, I believe my only choice is to use the SBC encoder. Spotify will never let you transfer it's source file to anywhere because of DRM. Alternativly, if we could enable an AAC stream or something (also supported I believe) we'd need less bitrate/bitpool for better quality! And from what I have read, the SBC encoder standard used it just quite crappy. So while a 320Kbit LAME encoded MP3 might sound great/perfect, using a sub-standard encoder can still give it artifacts and low quality. Thus the hunt for insane amounts of bitrate!
Awesome, I'll definitely give it a shot. If it's possible to exceed the Bluetooth standard spec then that'd be awesome. I'm more worried about our receivers not being able to support the higher bandwidth - my head unit is new but only supports SBC unfortunately.
Cool
ChrisK15 said:
Awesome, I'll definitely give it a shot. If it's possible to exceed the Bluetooth standard spec then that'd be awesome. I'm more worried about our receivers not being able to support the higher bandwidth - my head unit is new but only supports SBC unfortunately.
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Click to collapse
Cool, I just put the bitpool64 version there too. Tested it and I notice no real difference. Sadly the quality is still not great, it's not horrible.... but certainly not great so I still feel like my settings are maybe not having any effect whatsoever. As reflected by the logs using catlog. It sen bitpool 51 max and settles for that. For all the values I have changed in the files and that stay the same, I really do not understand. Wish I could fix that, but with my knowledge I have just run out of places where to look.
Let me know if in your case it makes any difference!
I just tried it out and to me it seems like there's an improvement. I normally stream Pandora One in my car, and that definitely seemed like it had more clarity. However Google Music streaming sounded the same, although it was already good to begin with. I would think that compressing more highly-compressed music from the start (Pandora) would have a worse effect on quality than less-compressed music, which seems to be the case. Or maybe I'm just hearing things
Thanks for looking into this, I've been trying to find a way to do this for a while!
Quindor said:
Hi there, thnx's for joining the cause.
I compiled a new daily today with settings set to bitpool 128. But I don't really hear much change, maybe the setting is too high, maybe something else is going wrong. As stated above, in the logs I can only see it sending 51 as max pool to the device and setteling with it. But since I'm using an edit pcm_bluetooth.c it should override that setting, say it's going to do 51 and then stream and the values I defined in the files.
.....in theory at least...... the only subjective evidence I have for this are my own ears.
(...) .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
perhaps you can test if the patch does anything - by setting bitpool to some very LOW value ?
ChrisK15 said:
It might be worth checking out if your car stereo supports mp3 over A2DP - there is an option in /etc/bluetooth/audio.conf to set MPEG12Sources from 0 to 1 and SBCSources from 1 to 0.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On my CM12.1 official nightly ROM (2015/12/03) for my Samsung i9505, there is no file audio.conf
Does that mean I can simply create it with the two lines
MPEG12Sources=1
SBCSources=0
in order to test wether a bluetooth SNK device such as a car stereo or a headset supports mp3 over A2DP?
So does anyone have some actual logs or HCI captures showing bitpool above 53?
..
Hi, got a Huawei Mate 10 Pro BLA-L29 8.0.0.136(C185) and a Shanling M0 as a Bluetooth receiver. When I get them connected using LDAC, there are two menu sections where I can set the audio quality to be fed to the M0. One is the Developer Options where, apart from selecting the BT codec itself, I can set sample rate at 44.1 to 96 kHz, bit depth of 16 to 32 bits per sample, and stream bitrate at 330 to 990 kbps. These settings behave in a weird manner, always reverting to default every time I disconnect the BT or even while it's connected. The other instance is the properties of an individual BT device where I can set the LDAC playback quality to either "Optimized for audio quality" or "Balanced audio and connection quality".
Problem: if the BT device is "Optimized for audio quality", I only get decent transmission if stream bitrate is set to 660 kbps or lower in the Developer Options. Inversely, if the latter is set to 990 kbps, it only works decently if the device-specific setting is "Balanced audio and connection quality". If both are set to maximum audio quality, the playback starts gagging violently, interruptions happening up to twice a second if the phone is active and like once every five to ten seconds if the screen is off (the two devices 5 inches away from each other with nothing but air between them).
I brought the Shanling M0 to the nearest Sony store and paired it with a demo phone with LDAC audio quality set to 32/96 at 990 kbps and it worked like a charm without a single hiccup.
Anyone else has this issue and/or aware of a fix?
I have been to a number of stores since the original post and was able to pair my Shanling M0 to various devices:
1. Huawei P20, Android 8.1, Bluetooth 4.2 - same problem.
2. Samsung Galaxy S9+, Android 8.0, Bluetooth 5.0 - no problem.
3. Samsung Galaxy A6, Android 8.0, Bluetooth 4.2 - no problem.
Apparently, Android version is not responsible for the malfunction, neither is Bluetooth version. It's the manufacturer.
Crap, crossing fingers about having this issue fixed. Have you reported it to Huawei customer service and Shanling's one ?
Thank you for the feedback. I'm interested in this small DAP (nostalgic for my beloved Sansa Clip), even if I'm quite sure I probably won't use the Shanling M0 as BT receiver.
Scalpos said:
I'm interested in this small DAP (nostalgic for my beloved Sansa Clip), even if I'm quite sure I probably won't use the Shanling M0 as BT receiver.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you ask me, you should just grab your money and go get it, because it works fine with other phones than Huawei. Even with mine, if I set it to "Balanced audio and connection quality", it's doing great. Actually, the LDAC standard bitrate of 660 kbps is amply sufficient to deliver music from major streaming services like Google Play Music. Whatever the problem is, I don't believe it's Shanling's fault, because the intensity of gagging depends heavily on whether the phone screen is on or off, which has nothing to do with connection quality.
As to the DAP itself, I find its sound signature and stage presentation nothing short of amazing, at least on par with my favorite Hidizs AP100 and far better than vivo Xplay6 or anything else I tried. Sansa Clip+ is nowhere near. The way I feel right now, I'm far more likely to ditch the Huawei phone than the Shanling DAP, because there are reasonable alternatives to the former, but not the latter.
anton79ru said:
If you ask me, you should just grab your money and go get it, because it works fine with other phones than Huawei. Even with mine, if I set it to "Balanced audio and connection quality", it's doing great. Actually, the LDAC standard bitrate of 660 kbps is amply sufficient to deliver music from major streaming services like Google Play Music. Whatever the problem is, I don't believe it's Shanling's fault, because the intensity of gagging depends heavily on whether the phone screen is on or off, which has nothing to do with connection quality.
As to the DAP itself, I find its sound signature and stage presentation nothing short of amazing, at least on par with my favorite Hidizs AP100 and far better than vivo Xplay6 or anything else I tried. Sansa Clip+ is nowhere near. The way I feel right now, I'm far more likely to ditch the Huawei phone than the Shanling DAP, because there are reasonable alternatives to the former, but not the latter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, I started following Head-fi.org's thread few weeks ago, this device looks great.
I currently own a Cowon Plenue D for more than 2 years, I'm quite happy with it: relatively small, great battery life and sound. But I'd like to have a smaller good DAP I can bring with me when I run, or simply don't want to suck smartphone's battery. I bought a Sansa Sport Clip+ (BT DAP) one year ago, crappiest DAP I ever met...
What's your battery life experience using BT head/earphones wiht this DAP ?
Hello there,
Just to share the using LDAC experience with a mate 10 pro (BLA-L29 145 (C432))
I have a Sony headsets (WH-1000XM2) and it works just fine, I'm able to use LDAC perfectly, sound is very good but you need to be close to the phone, 5m apart and it starts to break.
I know its not the same situation, but this is my experience.
Best regards.
And the volume?
Mine with my sennheiser 4.50 BT NC is very low..
Scalpos said:
What's your battery life experience using BT head/earphones wiht this DAP ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no such experience, I only use M0 as a BT receiver with wired IEM connected to it. I never even bothered to measure battery life, since it's more than two days of my regular use, i connect it to a USB port earlier than I need to charge.
sartan said:
And the volume? Mine with my sennheiser 4.50 BT NC is very low.
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Click to collapse
If you want to control volume on your headphones, you need to set it to maximum on the DAP. The rest of it will be the responsibility of your headphones' integrated amp - if the volume's too low, then it's just not powerful enough, there is no way a bluetooth source can fix that, as it does not transmit loudness.
sadmam said:
Hello there,
Just to share the using LDAC experience with a mate 10 pro (BLA-L29 145 (C432))
I have a Sony headsets (WH-1000XM2) and it works just fine, I'm able to use LDAC perfectly, sound is very good but you need to be close to the phone, 5m apart and it starts to break.
I know its not the same situation, but this is my experience.
Best regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much indeed, because that's exactly the diagnostic step that I missed. Need to try that to locate the problem more precisely. Are you sure that the LDAC playback quality setting in your bluetooth device options was at "Optimized for audio quality"?
anton79ru said:
I have no such experience, I only use M0 as a BT receiver with wired IEM connected to it. I never even bothered to measure battery life, since it's more than two days of my regular use, i connect it to a USB port earlier than I need to charge.
If you want to control volume on your headphones, you need to set it to maximum on the DAP. The rest of it will be the responsibility of your headphones' integrated amp - if the volume's too low, then it's just not powerful enough, there is no way a bluetooth source can fix that, as it does not transmit loudness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With other smartphone is working perfectly and with strong volume.
Where is possible to maximize the volume on the DAP? Simply with volume buttons?
Thanks.
sartan said:
With other smartphone is working perfectly and with strong volume.
Where is possible to maximize the volume on the DAP? Simply with volume buttons?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would suggest that you go to the Shanling M0 thread on head-fi, there's a company representative on that forum who's very cooperative, you should describe your issue to him. I wish I could give you a hand, but my experience is limited to operating the volume wheel on the DAP.
anton79ru said:
Thank you very much indeed, because that's exactly the diagnostic step that I missed. Need to try that to locate the problem more precisely. Are you sure that the LDAC playback quality setting in your bluetooth device options was at "Optimized for audio quality"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes... it has to be... or it wont use LDAC at all... it will use APTX or something else... LDAC is only used on the setting "Optimised for audio quality".
Need some help to recorder exactly whats playing with quad dac and the exact same quality, native by software. Don't tell me using another sound card or mics. Can USB recorder do that? Do you know other software? Also it needs to leave quad dac enabled...
Trying to figure out if this is possible and if it has solutions. If not, maybe with a laptop, but what kind of software or external sound card can capture the exact same 32 bit data from the quad dac? Please help.
no UAPP cannot do this. there is no solution short of maybe root and even then I've never come across anything close.
more critically... engaging the quad DAC inherently means you are converting to analog. your request to avoid sound cards or mics is nonsensical, because an analog signal needs to be converted back to digital bro.
FYI if your intention is to rip music from streaming services, that's a whole different operation (encryption etc). I believe it is only possible with Google Play Music (Tidal has proprietary MQA encoding).
just tell me what you're really trying to do, maybe there's a better way.
Hi, is there a way of limiting the sample rate to 48kHz in Android 10 (AOSP Rom)?
I'm using a USB-C to headphone dongle and according to the developer, Viper4Android doesn't support a sample rate greater than 48kHz, so my current driver status is abnormal. Note that my bluetooth headphones work fine.
In system/etc, I have a audio_policy.conf, but not an audio_policy_configuration.xml ( https://source.android.com/devices/audio/implement-policy )
Any alternative ways of limiting the sample rate would be much appreciated.
The mixer in Android downsamples everything to 44100Hz anyway, so that is probably not the issue.
It won't ever go past the above value other than the case where you use an application that creates a pass-through between the DAC (whether that is the internal one by Qualcomm or an external dongle one) and the output, thus offering bitperfect quality
Dariusdd said:
The mixer in Android downsamples everything to 44100Hz anyway, so that is probably not the issue.
It won't ever go past the above value other than the case where you use an application that creates a pass-through between the DAC (whether that is the internal one by Qualcomm or an external dongle one) and the output, thus offering bitperfect quality
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your response - do you have any other ideas why viper doesn't work?
Absolutely none, it's old and unmaintained as far as I remember. I am unsure of the compatibility of the newer fork of it as well. Good luck getting it to work
I mean you can try jdsp
Yeah James DSP does work actually, but it's missing a few features. It seems the only way of fixing this issue is using a passive headphone adapter, which aren't that common on amazon at least.