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Long exposures, controlling shutter speed.

Hey guys, I was curious if there is any method to take a long exposure photo on our Z1. I guess hardware is capable of doing that for sure. Tried to search exposure options in stock camera and Google camera, unfortunately didn't find anything. Is there any mod which would let me take a long exposure photos? Found some apps @ google play, but only one worked and could take photos @ 0.9MP 1280x720 so thats way too low.
Looking forward to answers.

EarlShannons said:
... take a long exposure photo...
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as far as i know this is restricted by android system itself, although hardware would be able to handle it

punkt said:
as far as i know this is restricted by android system itself, although hardware would be able to handle it
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Click to collapse
As I said above, there is one application that is working like it should (setting delay/aperture) but the major problem is that it take only 1280x720 resolution photos, far too small (but still it does the job, photos looked like on my old panasonic). If I could take photos with at least 12MP or 21MP it'd be awesome.

EarlShannons said:
As I said above, there is one application that is working like it should (setting delay/aperture) but the major problem is that it take only 1280x720 resolution photos, far too small (but still it does the job, photos looked like on my old panasonic). If I could take photos with at least 12MP or 21MP it'd be awesome.
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i know there apps for this
some time ago i was looking also for this feature and i only can remember that this apps do not take realy long exposure images as you get them out of a dslr or normal digicam. i also read that this is not possible because android os system is not supporting this feature yet. think the problem was/is that you cannot fully control shutter time.
maybe i am wrong, but then there would be a lot of apps with this image mode and i also think sony would support this on their phones too.

EarlShannons said:
As I said above, there is one application that is working like it should (setting delay/aperture) but the major problem is that it take only 1280x720 resolution photos, far too small (but still it does the job, photos looked like on my old panasonic). If I could take photos with at least 12MP or 21MP it'd be awesome.
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i think those apps that claim to do long exposure are using video instead of photo as a form of long exposure trickery. e.g. taking 10 seconds of video and merging it into 1 single photo. why they are limited to 720p or 1080p.
not a photo expert so i could be wrong

Tonian1878 said:
i think those apps that claim to do long exposure are using video instead of photo as a form of long exposure trickery. e.g. taking 10 seconds of video and merging it into 1 single photo. why they are limited to 720p or 1080p.
not a photo expert so i could be wrong
Click to expand...
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Anyways I will just wait for new google camera api, this is going to be a one of its features so.

EarlShannons said:
Hey guys, I was curious if there is any method to take a long exposure photo on our Z1. I guess hardware is capable of doing that for sure. Tried to search exposure options in stock camera and Google camera, unfortunately didn't find anything. Is there any mod which would let me take a long exposure photos? Found some apps @ google play, but only one worked and could take photos @ 0.9MP 1280x720 so thats way too low.
Looking forward to answers.
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Click to collapse
Can you please tell mi name of those apps
Sent from my C6902 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

ron76426 said:
Can you please tell mi name of those apps
Sent from my C6902 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app
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Click to collapse
It is free app "Light camera".

EarlShannons said:
It is free app "Light camera".
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Thanku?
Sent from my C6902 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

The sole reason why they were able to do this is because they are utilizing the viewfinder. Which means they are taking pictures from viewfinder not directly from the camera and also hence the reason why it's only too small. The viewfinder size I think depends on your display hence if you have a 4k screen I think you can get a 8mp shot with this.

I remembered I read a very detailed explanation on why long exposures aren't possible on Android devices without some workaround, so I googled and found the answer. This is what the developers of Camera FV-5 say (an app that features 'long exposure' through viewfinder capture):
"In Android there is no support as of now for long exposures (longer than half of a second). Therefore, Camera FV-5 capture the sensor live view feed directly and perform the exposure by software. The problem is that, given that the application need the sensor feed, it is limited to the maximum resolution the camera driver provides live view feed. That maximum resolution is often bigger than the screen resolution of your phone, but still, no phone provides full resolution sensor feeds to applications. On most phones, the maximum feed resolution is 1 MP, while on newer phones is 2 MP. There is no other way to achieve true long exposures without camera driver support."
Source: http://www.camerafv5.com/faq.php#long-exposure-resolution
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I guess we'll have to wait for Google to release an Android version that supports long exposures for all devices, or Sony to provide drivers with an update.
Can't come soon enough I'd say..!

Cool! Hah! I was right I'm not still sure though but I think it's doable to forward the full camera output to viewfinder but I'm not sure how it would work out. Maybe they could hijack the buffer from /dev/video*
Anyways I'm not app developer hence I can't do this.
Hermantje said:
I remembered I read a very detailed explanation on why long exposures aren't possible on Android devices without some workaround, so I googled and found the answer. This is what the developers of Camera FV-5 say (an app that features 'long exposure' through viewfinder capture):
I guess we'll have to wait for Google to release an Android version that supports long exposures for all devices, or Sony to provide drivers with an update.
Can't come soon enough I'd say..!
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Click to collapse

It is a shame this is not part of all new Android devices. I had a chance to test the 8 sec long exposure on Oppo N1 (review here) and the results where just extraordinary for a smartphone.
Check out the samples from Oppo N1 below (of course tripod was needed for 8s exposures):
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Camera sensor on OPPO N1
oppo n1 has a sony sensor????
then hardware is not a problem in long exposure its software only!!!!
BTW in lumia 830 u can have 4 second exposure!!!!
and my Mini pro (non exmor)had a 1/2 second exposure and results were sexy!!!!

About camera?

Hi to all
I have several questions about P20 Pro camera:
1. Did x3 optical zoom and x5 hybrid zoo. Have OIS? (Are they stable like optical zoom on S9+?)
2. Did it recording in 1080p 60fps?
3. Can "light fusion technology " be use for 40mp or just dor 10mp?
4. They didn't tell us so much about video recording. Is video recording better then S9+ or not? (I don't believe to DXO mark, but theysey that P20 Pro have better video recording)
5. Did P20 Pro have better HDR like Pixel Xl 2 and S9?
6. Can I use panorama on RGB sensors (40mp)?
7. I see on Youtube that in Pro mode they have just 3200 ISO, but they show us a 102400 ISO. So the camera is not with last software update?
8. Main camera (40mp) dont have OIS? And is AIS like EIS?

Zoom sensor has OIS. The other two don’t.
Light fusion is 10mp Output.
Dxomark rated the video equal to the Pixel 2 scoring overall. They did say it was one of the best at video.
Yes, hence the 114 dxomark photo score. It doesn’t need the Pixel way of making photos using HDR+.
The ISO might be in Auto Mode at that level, but it can do it.
AIS uses some EIS and then AI to correct photo. Huawei say it’s better than OIS which wouldn’t surprise me if true.

gavinfabl said:
Zoom sensor has OIS. The other two don’t.
Light fusion is 10mp Output.
Dxomark rated the video equal to the Pixel 2 scoring overall. They did say it was one of the best at video.
Yes, hence the 114 dxomark photo score. It doesn’t need the Pixel way of making photos using HDR+.
The ISO might be in Auto Mode at that level, but it can do it.
AIS uses some EIS and then AI to correct photo. Huawei say it’s better than OIS which wouldn’t surprise me if true.
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Thx a lot for your answer i have two more question:
Can I use camera manual mode with 40mp and diffrent ISO?
And, I never usw Huawei, did it have manual video mod like LG V30?

isko01 said:
Thx a lot for your answer i have two more question:
Can I use camera manual mode with 40mp and diffrent ISO?
And, I never usw Huawei, did it have manual video mod like LG V30?
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Click to collapse
Yes and yes.

gavinfabl said:
Yes and yes.
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Thx and thx thx a lot

Camera samples from the devices at the launch.

All the 10MP samples I've seen look excellent. Certainly better than anything currently on the market.
Even in good light, the 40MP shots appear to be poorly lit and also lacking contrast .. I suspect due to both the huge amount of data being read by the camera software, and the very large resulting image, both metering and post processing are highly suspect. I'm sure it will improve with time, but I suspect that it would benefit from Huawei's next-gen SoC.
Zoom lens / sensor photos are surprisingly decent, as is the hybrid zoom.
What I'm most interested in seeing is image stacking / HDR on the main sensor's 10MP output, if it can do that. Huawei's image stacking / HDR has been a lot weaker than Samsung / Google / Open Camera etc previously.
P.S. For anyone wondering, from what I've been told the main 1/1.7" sensor is a Panasonic one.

I have S8 and S9 os not big difference in camera. SO I would like to buy P20 Pro, BUT it really need to be very good camera much better then S8. But what I see from Forbes I was very sad... The P20 Pro is not big improvement from s8, S9 and Iphon x...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin...tout-huawei-p20-pro-vs-iphone-x/#bfc5e745d33b
And if the 40mp camera dark in good light, and you can use it for good photo, why then buy this phone? Why did they put 40mp if they dont have "Renesansa" pgoro and video?
P.S. lets meka a Group in telegram about P20 Pro...

The 10MP output looks a lot better than anything on the market, including your S8 and S9.
It has 40MP because that's the sensor's native resolution. This sensor is used in cameras usually, not phones ... and they have far more sophisticated metering, lenses and dedicated image processing hardware, and can make some use of the 40MP - albeit even then the images usually look far better at a lower multiple of the native resolution, or downscaled. Dynamic range is far better - also seen on the P20 Pro.
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But we're not going to get anything that compares even vaguely well to a half decent camera until we go to larger sensors still, or multi sensor arrays. As I said elsewhere, at least one major smartphone maker is working on a prototype of a phone with a 1" sensor ... whether it sees the light of day will possibly depend on how many units the P20 Pro sells.

mudnightoil said:
The 10MP output looks a lot better than anything on the market, including your S8 and S9.
It has 40MP because that's the sensor's native resolution. This sensor is used in cameras usually, not phones ... and they have far more sophisticated metering, lenses and dedicated image processing hardware, and can make some use of the 40MP - albeit even then the images usually look far better at a lower multiple of the native resolution, or downscaled. Dynamic range is far better - also seen on the P20 Pro.
But we're not going to get anything that compares even vaguely well to a half decent camera until we go to larger sensors still, or multi sensor arrays. As I said elsewhere, at least one major smartphone maker is working on a prototype of a phone with a 1" sensor ... whether it sees the light of day will possibly depend on how many units the P20 Pro sells.
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Thx for you a answer
So they are not possibility to make with update 40mp much better, or good like 10 mp?
I think if they put better pixel, better sensors like they put and 40mp camera then we can take big photo with very good details when zoom in photo, and very good quality photo. I aspect to see much much much better photo then S9+, pixel xl 2, iphon x... with so much better shadows, lights, and etc...
So 40mp is jusy marketing trick?

What do you want 40MP output for? It's highly unlikely you need 10MP.
You realise 4K is 8MP? Assuming you don't have an 8K TV or monitor yet (33MP)?
How many people do large, super high DPI prints of mobile phone photos ... not many I'd wager.

40mp images. Shot in raw. Say no more. These are amazing.
https://twitter.com/UmihitoTV/status/978969506679853056
10mp is excellent for nearly everything. When you want more, go raw and you’ve got best of both worlds.
---------- Post added at 07:49 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------
I currently have a Samsung S9+ and have been taking some amazing shots with it. Epic shots. See this post
https://gavinsgadgets.com/2018/03/26/soussons-forest-dartmoor-national-park-shot-on-the-samsung-s9/
and https://gavinsgadgets.com/2018/03/2...om-the-samsung-galaxy-s9-featuring-snow-dogs/
So as far as I’m concerned, the P20 Pro has to be better than all of these types of shots. I did have the Huawei Mate 10 Pro that took some amazing pics too. So what I have decided to do, is to focus heavily on the Huawei P20 Pro when it arrives and create very specific and detailed posts on it , including the camera with lots of tips too.
I am fairly confident the P20 Pro will be better from the samples already shared that I’m selling my S9+, even though I actually really like it.

gavinfabl said:
40mp images. Shot in raw. Say no more. These are amazing.
https://twitter.com/UmihitoTV/status/978969506679853056
10mp is excellent for nearly everything. When you want more, go raw and you’ve got best of both worlds.
---------- Post added at 07:49 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------
I currently have a Samsung S9+ and have been taking some amazing shots with it. Epic shots. See this post
https://gavinsgadgets.com/2018/03/26/soussons-forest-dartmoor-national-park-shot-on-the-samsung-s9/
and https://gavinsgadgets.com/2018/03/2...om-the-samsung-galaxy-s9-featuring-snow-dogs/
So as far as I’m concerned, the P20 Pro has to be better than all of these types of shots. I did have the Huawei Mate 10 Pro that took some amazing pics too. So what I have decided to do, is to focus heavily on the Huawei P20 Pro when it arrives and create very specific and detailed posts on it , including the camera with lots of tips too.
I am fairly confident the P20 Pro will be better from the samples already shared that I’m selling my S9+, even though I actually really like it.
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Waooo you got very good photo. Did you make all in RAW rhen edit or?

The shots shown in the linked posts were shot all in auto.

gavinfabl said:
The shots shown in the linked posts were shot all in auto.
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Waooo even with same sensors and all camera hardwer like S8, S9 make much better photos then S8.
P20 Pro have much batter senzor nmand pixel from today competition, did this mean P20Pro will have better photos (take better photos) then S9+, pixel Xl2 and etc? With more light, shadows, details and etc?

isko01 said:
Waooo even with same sensors and all camera hardwer like S8, S9 make much better photos then S8.
P20 Pro have much batter senzor nmand pixel from today competition, did this mean P20Pro will have better photos (take better photos) then S9+, pixel Xl2 and etc? With more light, shadows, details and etc?
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Click to collapse
I’m expecting the P20 Pro to be a lot better. And the creative options are huge.

does anyone here knows which camera sensor huawei is using for the pro? is it sony imx or a different one?

dyepnoodle said:
does anyone here knows which camera sensor huawei is using for the pro? is it sony imx or a different one?
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Click to collapse
Someone earlier mentioned it is a Panasonic sensor

isko01 said:
So 40mp is jusy marketing trick?
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Click to collapse
Think back to the PureView tech. On that I believe the camera produced a 5 or 8MP image. In most cases that's the mode you used, even though you could go for the full-sized image. That often had a lot more noise, as the whole point of the 40MP is to use the data from 4 pixels to produce a cleaner 10MP image.
I took a few 40MP images but Google scales it down to 16MP on high-resolution mode (the mode I've chosen as otherwise I'd quickly use up all my storage) so at some point, I'll take a few more and host them elsewhere to share.
Frankly, we've moved on from playing the numbers game where more pixels is anything people cared about. 40MP here is purely to allow Huawei to do its clever stuff (especially the AI assisted night mode) and not just to sound better than the competition, even though I'm sure that's a rather good side-effect for the marketing department!
There are a lot more photos added to the gallery today, including some more from other people who attended the launch.
I am yet to experiment with RAW and the pro mode, and I do wonder if I'll need to as it is such a good phone for just picking up and shooting, letting the phone do its work. The scene detection works very well, although occasionally it may pick a mode you think isn't what you wanted to capture (e.g. a building where it goes for 'blue sky mode' to boost the colour of the sky) although it doesn't ruin the photo. Plus you can turn it off if you prefer. I don't see any need to yet.

hey @jonmorris,
How's the dynamic range compared with the pixel 2/galaxy s9? Maybe, if you own one of them you could post some comparison pictures .

Can the Sony IMX586 produce true 48MP Images?

Hi All
I've been reading around this for a while and can't quite decide what this sensor can do. I appreciate it's a Quad Bayer arrangement which is very effective for grouping pixels together which allows for good performance in low light and produces 12MP images.
I notice the spec sheet says "48 effective pixels" but I understand this means there are a few extra pixels round the edge used to discover brightness etc, or does effective mean not really?
This could be a dense question, but can this sensor produce true 48MP images? I notice the RAW output on the Mi9 is only 12MP so is probably 48MP pixel binned.
What I'm really looking for 48MP RAW. I'm guessing the output would be very soft and unsharp, but then I can do my own post processing to suit my taste.
Edit: The issues seems to be an incorrect implementation of Camera2 Api which reports max resolution of 3000x4000 for the 48MP camera. It's been reported below so if you'd like to see 48MP jpegs and RAW for 3rd party apps, please visit the link and confirm the issue in a post below.
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
Thanks for reading.....
Steve

picitup said:
Hi All
I've been reading around this for a while and can't quite decide what this sensor can do. I appreciate it's a Quad Bayer arrangement which is very effective for grouping pixels together which allows for good performance in low light and produces 12MP images.
I notice the spec sheet says "48 effective pixels" but I understand this means there are a few extra pixels round the edge used to discover brightness etc, or does effective mean not really?
This could be a dense question, but can this sensor produce true 48MP images? I notice the RAW output on the Mi9 is only 12MP so is probably 48MP pixel binned.
What I'm really looking for 48MP RAW. I'm guessing the output would be very soft and unsharp, but then I can do my own post processing to suit my taste.
Thanks for reading.....
Steve
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Click to collapse
my mi9 hasnt arrived yet, but from what I read, it CAN output 48mp in an manual mode (not auto). Regarding RAW instead of Jpeg: i don't know if stock app can do it at 48mp, but gcam most probably will (at least when the port is finalized). But using 48mp will disable HDR because its somehow Chipset limited.

Hi Mine has arrived and can confirm the stock camera will take 48MP jpegs. Th RAW output is only 12MP.
But I wonder is it really 48MP? If the sensor is quad bayer, meaning that 4 green pixels are grouped together, then 4 red etc. how can you possibly get full res out of that arrangement?
It looks like this:
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"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
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Cheers
Steve

Well I think I've answered my own question and it seems to be yes; it can output true 48MP images;
If you slip one pixel right and down, you can group pixels into a traditional RGGB Bayer arrangement. Now that's clever!
If you look at the attached image, I've drawn white boxes around each group of 4 pixels, ignoring the 1st row and column. You can see in each box, there is an RGGB combination, so it's job done!
My brain hurts.....
Steve

picitup said:
Well I think I've answered my own question and it seems to be yes; it can output true 48MP images;
If you slip one pixel right and down, you can group pixels into a traditional RGGB Bayer arrangement. Now that's clever!
If you look at the attached image, I've drawn white boxes around each group of 4 pixels, ignoring the 1st row and column. You can see in each box, there is an RGGB combination, so it's job done!
My brain hurts.....
Steve
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Click to collapse
It's like a Pentile Amoled so? It's not a real 48mp like a RGB Amoled would be.

Well I think it's similar as there are twice as many green pixels as red or blue (the same as all Bayer sensors), but I think you can get real 48MP out of it by slipping the matrix by 1 pixel as shown above.
Is that that what you were asking?
Cheers
Steve

Just a quick update on this.
The Camera2 API is Level 3, but the max photo resolutions of the front and rear cameras are misreported for 3rd party apps. Using Camera2 API Probe from here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airbeat.device.inspector
Shows that the rear camera is 4000x3000 (12MP) and should be 8000x6000 (48MP). The front camera is reported as 2592x1940 (5MP) and should be 5184x3880 (20MP).
The upshot of this is that 3rd party apps produce 12MP images from the rear camera and 5MP images from the front camera.
I've just unlocked my phone and installed xiaomi.eu rom 9.3.28 from here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/xi.../files/xiaomi.eu/MIUI-WEEKLY-RELEASES/9.3.28/
But no improvement, it's just the same.
I'll report this as a bug and report back. What I'm really looking for is 48MP RAW for 3rd parties.
Wish me luck....
Steve

picitup said:
Just a quick update on this.
The Camera2 API is Level 3, but the max photo resolutions of the front and rear cameras are misreported for 3rd party apps. Using Camera2 API Probe from here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airbeat.device.inspector
Shows that the rear camera is 4000x3000 (12MP) and should be 8000x6000 (48MP). The front camera is reported as 2592x1940 (5MP) and should be 5184x3880 (20MP).
The upshot of this is that 3rd party apps produce 12MP images from the rear camera and 5MP images from the front camera.
I've just unlocked my phone and installed xiaomi.eu rom 9.3.28 from here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/xi.../files/xiaomi.eu/MIUI-WEEKLY-RELEASES/9.3.28/
But no improvement, it's just the same.
I'll report this as a bug and report back. What I'm really looking for is 48MP RAW for 3rd parties.
Wish me luck....
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Sony sensor is not a real 48mp sensor. That's only marketing.
It's a 12mp sensor with real-time HDR
Gesendet von meinem MI 9 mit Tapatalk

Hi thanks for your reply. Do you have the data sheet for the sensor? I've scoured the Internet but only found a news release.
I'd really like to understand this if I can. So the 48MP photos in the stock cam are just upscaled 12MP?
Cheers
Steve

I've reported this as a bug to Xiaomi here:
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
So if you want 48MP for 3rd party apps, please verify it on the link above and maybe we can get it!
Cheers
Steve

Check datasheet, it's 48Mpix sensor, but won't produce 48Mpix images without array conversion.
Pretty nice article about it:
https://www.androidpit.com/48-mp-or-not-look-at-sony-new-camera-sensor

Hi
Thanks yes I did read that article, but think in my 4th post I explained how to get true 48MP from it. I'm at the limits of my knowledge here, so could be very wrong
The Sony news release says:
When shooting bright scenes such as daytime outdoors, the built-in, original signal processing function performs array conversion, making it possible to obtain high-definition 48 effective megapixel images in real time
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201807/18-060E/index.html
what do you think?

This article:
https://www.quora.com/Why-aren-t-all-48MP-sensors-born-equal
Compares the IMX586 and the Samsung GM1, both 48MP sensors. It says the difference is that the IMX586 has integrated array conversion and can produce true 48MP images, whereas the GM1 does not and can offer only 12MP pixel binned images.
When shooting bright scenes, such as an outdoor environment during daytime, the built-in, original signal processing function performs array conversion (see diagram below), making it possible to obtain high-definition 48 effective megapixel images in real time. Thus, the Sony IMX586 can produce true 48MP photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds promising....

I can only imagine how amazing photos it will be possible to output with Lightroom using 48mpx raws. From what I can read here, it really sounds it will be possible to achieve as hardware-wise everything on paper says it is producing real 48mpx. I just wonder if it's possible to "unlock" this with gcam. Probably I can feel that root will be needed ...

brainscollector said:
I can only imagine how amazing photos it will be possible to output with Lightroom using 48mpx raws. From what I can read here, it really sounds it will be possible to achieve as hardware-wise everything on paper says it is producing real 48mpx. I just wonder if it's possible to "unlock" this with gcam. Probably I can feel that root will be needed ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I think the potential is there. I've reported it as a bug to Xiaomi higher up, so please click the link and comment and maybe Xiaomi will fix it!

picitup said:
Yes I think the potential is there. I've reported it as a bug to Xiaomi higher up, so please click the link and comment and maybe Xiaomi will fix it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What we need from xiaomi is RAW 48 mp, higher bitrate of the mic, maybe a few other little things and we have the perfect phone. How can we SPAM xioami to do that ?!!

Well 48MP RAW is reported, if you follow the link I reported above, you enter your own bug and hopefully they will fix it. I'm new to Xiaomi so I don't know how much notice they take of bug reports, but they say the more users that confirm the bug, the more likely they will fix it.

Just a quick bump.
If you want to see 48MP RAW on the Mi9, please follow the link on the first post and confirm the issue then hopefully Xiaomi will take note.
Cheers

Please ignore the link on the first post as it keeps getting changed. Here's the link:
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
Cheers

picitup said:
Please ignore the link on the first post as it keeps getting changed. Here's the link:
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your screenshoot shows 8000*6000 on the last row for photo size, so not a good proof.

Themes / Apps / Mods Samsung Expert Raw app

FYI, just noticed the release of the Expert Raw app by Samsung, supporting all lenses for the S21 Ultra. Editing can be done through Adobe Lighthouse for Samsung.
The app is release in South Korea, but als available through mirror sites.
More info here

thanks.

Manual controls over the telephoto lenses are awesome. However sadly "RAW" here is used loosely since there's built in noise reduction that cannot be adjusted.
Top is "Expert RAW" DNG to JPG with just adjusting brightness. No noise reduction is applied and yet there is very little detail. Bottom picture is just stock camera night mode. More noise, but also more detail.
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I'm testing Expert RAW now and mus confirm, noise reduction exist even on DNG file. You suggest to use other app?

I'll test it tonight

Right after downgrading to 11 I saw this post. Back to 12... Again and, yes, it's True. This is NOT pure RAW. I posted 3 photos down here so you can see what's going on. I apologize in advance for this long post but I wanted to show the actual view on the user's screen.
1st: Expert raw actually takes a RAW photo (notice the high chroma noise) but immediately processes it, to reduce the noise as seen with the yellow progress circle in the lower part of the screen.
2nd: after processing, the photo looks like this
3rd: after opening the photo in Photoshop Express, it looks like this:
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.

Randi03 said:
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sad but True. Higher ISO level = more agressive processing.
This example with some lightroom touches from x10 tele captured on ISO 50 but on tripod gimbal with 1/15s time.
Glad that they gave us full control at all, that's the most important thing, but they also had to give something back.

More examples with little lightroom postpro. All lenses and this time all captured from hand. Expert RAW creates multiple ammount of photos to some kind of HDR RAW. Anyway theare are much better than photos from standard camera app. Less processing but still exist.

Randi03 said:
Right after downgrading to 11 I saw this post. Back to 12... Again and, yes, it's True. This is NOT pure RAW. I posted 3 photos down here so you can see what's going on. I apologize in advance for this long post but I wanted to show the actual view on the user's screen.
1st: Expert raw actually takes a RAW photo (notice the high chroma noise) but immediately processes it, to reduce the noise as seen with the yellow progress circle in the lower part of the screen. View attachment 54668372nd: after processing, the photo looks like this
View attachment 5466841
3rd: after opening the photo in Photoshop Express, it looks like this:
View attachment 5466843
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol that's the thing though, the sensors aren't mediocre. Having a Snapdragon with access to telephoto RAW for a while now, I can definitely say that they're pretty good albeit a little soft and lack contrast. I think it's that Samsung's algorithm is still problematic and they are still catering to the common user who they think is scared of any signs of noise.
Here's a zoomed in picture of a 10x GCam RAW zoomed in with Photoshop Express without noise reduction
And here's the Expert RAW version

Wow, the Gcam looks very nice. That's exactly what I hope to get out of the Exynos someday )

Expert raw seems to be the answer to apple's proraw or I can't remember the exact name. Basically it's 6 raw shots stacked together to help reduce the amount of noise and increase dynamic range over a single raw since these phones are usually meant to have lots of internal post precessing after the raw shot to look good. I was pretty excited when I read apple had come up with it. Turned out to be disappointing. Looks like Samsung's answer isn't better either.
It shows the difficulty of processing and stacking multiple images. I'll stick to my gcam with snap dragon as I'm super happy with it. 10x is by far my favorite lens to take portraits, never use the fake portrait mode, even in 3x it can't beat gcam 10x. Google processing is just that good. If pixel 6 pro had a 10x periscope I was probably switching phones... Will have to wait some more

PhilMorin said:
Expert raw seems to be the answer to apple's proraw or I can't remember the exact name. Basically it's 6 raw shots stacked together to help reduce the amount of noise and increase dynamic range over a single raw since these phones are usually meant to have lots of internal post precessing after the raw shot to look good. I was pretty excited when I read apple had come up with it. Turned out to be disappointing. Looks like Samsung's answer isn't better either.
It shows the difficulty of processing and stacking multiple images. I'll stick to my gcam with snap dragon as I'm super happy with it. 10x is by far my favorite lens to take portraits, never use the fake portrait mode, even in 3x it can't beat gcam 10x. Google processing is just that good. If pixel 6 pro had a 10x periscope I was probably switching phones... Will have to wait some more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what GCAM mod are you using btw?

yoyosquad said:
what GCAM mod are you using btw?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Arnova, one of the first version that was released. I've been really happy with it so haven't bothered updating to one of the latest version that beserker has posted.

PhilMorin said:
Arnova, one of the first version that was released. I've been really happy with it so haven't bothered updating to one of the latest version that beserker has posted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if that's not a problem, can you write us exact version of this release?

ski.ign said:
if that's not a problem, can you write us exact version of this release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gcam build number is 8.1.101, might still be available from the links in beserker gcam for snapdragon thread

test

How can I install it? It's a zip file

Hello, i have question - how LOSELESS JPEG function works? Can You share some photos without editing it in external editors like lightroom? I'm interested how jpg from expert camera looks like.

I don't see any different between this camera end the stock camera

Hi, I am not sure what you mean by lossless jpeg. I couldn't find a setting for this. Here you can find 6 JPEG photos. 3 with stock, 3 with expert. All settings (ISO, Exposure, Focus distance, White balance) should be exactly the same as I have manually selected them while keeping the phone on a tripod. Auto HDR was disabled too. https://we.tl/t-WSBZjBGaNB
Also, I am on the Exynos variant.

General 200MP scaled down looks way better than 50MP

A scaled down 200MP image (to 50MP) looks way better than a 50MP from the Smart Hires Mode
So there is a lot of room for improvement of the Smart Hires mode (not so aggressive noise reduction and edge "enhancement").
An alternative would be that Motorola exposes the 50MP RAW surface (the 2x2 binning) instead of only the 12.5MP (4x4 binning) and allowing us to develop the images ourself.
Xiaomi showed us (in the e.g. Mi Note 10) how a 108MP sensor can produce superbe 27MP RAW images with way more details than from the competition.
Original 50MP
Downscaled 200MP

The full size Canon sensor in their top line pro shooter is less than 23 mp. It will out shoot any smart phone image quality wise. That actually a very large full frame and densely packed sensor with tremendous light gathering ability.
At some point the mp count becomes hype rather than an useful feature. 12 mp is a much more reasonable size for this sensor's form factor. The ability to form precision micro lens drops with size. They've already exceeded this critical factor. That's one reason a pro shooter can grab a better high resolution image.
Bottom line is you buy a smartphone for it's overall performance not just it's cam specs. With no expandable storage a smartphone that produces huge jpeg and raw files you will quickly eat up the internal storage capacity even with 500gb. A quality 12mp sensor can produce excellent images and is likely still the optimum size for the sensor form factor found in smartphones. When you see that being exceeded by a factor of 2, 5, 10x you have to wonder wtf is the designer's goal really was. Was it just mp bragging rights?

based on sample pics that ive seen in gsmarena heavy processing regarding noise reduction and sharpening, is ruining the quality, especially in telephoto samples.

@blackhawk Well you have to put this into perspective.
Can a small device like a smartphone hold up against a full frame sensor paired with good quality glass then the answer is now.
But if you comare a moder flagship samrphone with a high end SoC with a midrange device from a few years ago costing less than half the price than you can draw a baseline.
This baseline for me is the Xiaomi Mi Note 10 with its 108MP sensor producing very detailed 27MP RAW images with more than enough dynamic range. Especially when originated from GCam as stacked DNGs.
Why not give the users the opportunity to use the 4x4 binning as well as the 2x2?
You are right megapixel are not everything but details in an image is one of the main criterias besides color. 12.5MP are not enough im my opinion. Not if you want to crop now and then. Smartphone manufacturer have not been able to figure out the sweet spot yet and that is between 24 and 50MP. Modern hardware can easily handle that. MotionCam showed that a 4K DNG stream of 30-60fps in form of MotionDNG is possible so why not 50MP RAW images? This does not have to be the every day cost but at least there should be the opportunity.

More evidence here that a downscaled 200MP image (from the same device) looks way better than the 50MP output (the scene with the rails).
The downscaled image shows a much more natural look and the 50Mp the typical plasic look that looks like a rendered image from a computer game.
When Motorola is able to present the same result for the 50MP right out of the box this would be a big step forward in smartphone photography (for all that don't want to play with RAW/DNG).

AJ732101 said:
More evidence here that a downscaled 200MP image (from the same device) looks way better than the 50MP output (the scene with the rails).
The downscaled image shows a much more natural look and the 50Mp the typical plasic look that looks like a rendered image from a computer game.
When Motorola is able to present the same result for the 50MP right out of the box this would be a big step forward in smartphone photography (for all that don't want to play with RAW/DNG).
Click to expand...
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In what program do ypu donwnscaled it ? I seams that gcam can make even better pics

I simply use IrfanView with these settings
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Problem with GCam is that even if you get RAW your details with a 12.5 RAW image are also very limited. Not like the 27MP from my Xiaomi Mi Note 10.
As long as the Edge 30 Ultra does not grants access to the 2x2 binned 50MP RAW images GCam or ProShot can not create what is not there and this are details from existing pixels.
So the 50MP downscaled 200MP images are superior to the developed 12.5MP RAW is respect to details.

Here a sample of the level of details that is possible
For comparison a developed RAW image

AJ732101 said:
Here a sample of the level of details that is possible
For comparison a developed RAW image
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have any photo shoot with gcam ?

Wolf.88 said:
Do you have any photo shoot with gcam ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

More samples of 200MP images reduced by half of the resolution
Images are color corrected as the Edge 30 Ultras color science is not my favourite one
Sample 1
Sample 2
Sample 3
Sample 4
Sample 5

AJ732101 said:
More samples of 200MP images reduced by half of the resolution
Images are color corrected as the Edge 30 Ultras color science is not my favourite one
Sample 1
Sample 2
Sample 3
Sample 4
Sample 5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your work man. When i look your scaled down photos of 36 mpx its sweet spot , to me it looks better than any phone in terms of detail, and color im blow away by results.

AJ732101 said:
More samples of 200MP images reduced by half of the resolution
Images are color corrected as the Edge 30 Ultras color science is not my favourite one
Sample 1
Sample 2
Sample 3
Sample 4
Sample 5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try this Gcam, it outputs 50 mpx and its much better than stock

Wolf.88 said:
Try this Gcam, it outputs 50 mpx and its much better than stock
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for the tip.
But in my opinion the output looks really awful: sample
In terms of color an detail rendering. Looks more than an upscale than a real 50MP image and the RAW files are still 12.5MP. So I doubt that this GCam version has access to the 50MP image surface.
A look into the settings shows that upscaling with a factor 2.0x is active. So no real pixel.
The developer of the great photo app ProShot is in touch with Motorola to get access to the 50MP image plane in RAW so that 3rd party creators like him can get much more out of the hardware that Motorola is capable of.
I am corious if Xiaomi with their 12T Pro that uses the same 200MP sesor is able to do better.

A few days ago I received the version 1.21.2 of the Camera Tuner 4 via Google Play Store.
The update notes stated some image and video improvements.
Until now for the Edge 30 Ultra not to many seem to have received this update.
Still a 200MP downscale looks way better than the 12.5MP right out of the phone.
Look at the grass in this sample
This also applies for the 50MP images.
They do not look bad at all until you see the 200MP downscale as a comparison.
Here some other stuff after the update:
Collection of 200 to 50 megapixel downscales
Collection of 50MP right out of the phone (same motives)

Also in low light the 200MP downscale outperforms the 12.5 content frm the phone by far
The sample