Why samsung has disabled using telephoto lens for taking portrait. The same feature is enables for s20 model which has same camera module as s20fe.
Why don't you ask Samsung?
Roger.T said:
Why don't you ask Samsung?
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You are right. And we should close all the forums on the web, stop asking each other about our products and start asking the manufacturers all our doubts.
ecoyotzi said:
You are right. And we should close all the forums on the web, stop asking each other about our products and start asking the manufacturers all our doubts.
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Click to collapse
1. why ask something that only Samsung can answer?
2. if the colleague who posted the question had compared the specs correctly, he would have seen that the s20 models have a 64mp telephoto lens and the S20FE only an 8mp telephoto lens.
Before someone claims something he should inform himself correctly before posting something.
I think my answer to you also answers his question....
Roger.T said:
Why don't you ask Samsung?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they replied anything why would i post here
Roger.T said:
1. why ask something that only Samsung can answer?
2. if the colleague who posted the question had compared the specs correctly, he would have seen that the s20 models have a 64mp telephoto lens and the S20FE only an 8mp telephoto lens.
Before someone claims something he should inform himself correctly before posting something.
I think my answer to you also answers
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Click to collapse
I am very much aware that pixel resolution of telephoto in s20 is more than that of s20fe and i meant to ask that in spite of telephoto lens why Samsung disabled this lens in portrait mode where as s20 has this. Even kids now a days knows that higher pixel resolution doesn't make photos more beautiful and s20fe shares more or less same camera setup wide,ultrawide and telephoto. I asked this in samsung forum and they never replied. I am thinking of some technical difficulties that force samsung to disable it. Thought someone from xda aware of this and that's why discussing here. if u don't aware of any particular details about this subject, why don't you ignore it since you have nothing to tell technically about this matter. do u think that due to 8mp telephoto, they disabled it. hope u are clear now.
The Fact:
S20 FE and S20 don't share the same Telephoto module. S20 FE has a true 3X Optical Telephoto module and S20 is Digital one, basically crop and image stacking to enhance the image output.
My Opinion: Maybe, it is the camera lens or image processing sensor. Or simply to create a difference, between a real flagship variant and flagship-like variant.
Vorion said:
The Fact:
S20 FE and S20 don't share the same Telephoto module. S20 FE has a true 3X Optical Telephoto module and S20 is Digital one, basically crop and image stacking to enhance the image output.
My Opinion: Maybe, it is the camera lens or image processing sensor. Or simply to create a difference, between a real flagship variant and flagship-like variant.
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Click to collapse
S20 is a also have a true telephoto lens with 1.1x optical zoom. I mean to say both have telephoto lens and why this lens is disabled in hyperlapse and potrait modes. As u said may be to make a difference with flagship they might have disabled same.strange is that Samsung provided costly telephoto hardware to s20fe which has 3x optical zoom and at the same time flagship s20 have only 1.1 x telephoto and just disabled a common software based potrait feature in s20fe telephoto
Rajeshvg1923 said:
S20 is a also have a true telephoto lens with 1.1x optical zoom. I mean to say both have telephoto lens and why this lens is disabled in hyperlapse and potrait modes. As u said may be to make a difference with flagship they might have disabled same.strange is that Samsung provided costly telephoto hardware to s20fe which has 3x optical zoom and at the same time flagship s20 have only 1.1 x telephoto and just disabled a common software based potrait feature in s20fe telephoto
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Click to collapse
If you can't use S20 Camera at 1.1X zoom, then it's not an optical zoom. Whatever you use above 1X (other than 1.1X) everything is just digital zoom. It's not a true telephoto. Just for the papers/specs, it's called 1.1.. by adjusting the focal length by tiny bit or plainly not. But on S20 FE, 3X mode is the default Telephoto mode. So, it's purely truely optical.
Both modules are so different. Same module means same make, same Focal length, MP, F Stop, sensor size, pixel size, etc.
Yes, to differentiate the two variants should be the reason.
Vorion said:
If you can't use S20 Camera at 1.1X zoom, then it's not an optical zoom. Whatever you use above 1X (other than 1.1X) everything is just digital zoom. It's not a true telephoto. Just for the papers/specs, it's called 1.1.. by adjusting the focal length by tiny bit or plainly not. But on S20 FE, 3X mode is the default Telephoto mode. So, it's purely truely optical.
Both modules are so different. Same module means same make, same Focal length, MP, F Stop, sensor size, pixel size, etc.
Yes, to differentiate the two variants should be the reason.
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Click to collapse
Ok.
Now S21FE 5G released with telephoto lens enabled in potrait mode. If the loic to to make differences flagship S21 5G applied , they would have disabled it in S21FE 5G as they did in s20fe. Don't understand the feature adding statergy of samsung S series.
It makes sense to Samsungs marketing department I'm sure. They call it differentiation of something like that. To us its nothing but bull****. Also disapointed with the lack of Raw support in Adobe Lightroom. Better get the base S-model next time if you care about photography.
Rajeshvg1923 said:
I am very much aware that pixel resolution of telephoto in s20 is more than that of s20fe and i meant to ask that in spite of telephoto lens why Samsung disabled this lens in portrait mode where as s20 has this. Even kids now a days knows that higher pixel resolution doesn't make photos more beautiful and s20fe shares more or less same camera setup wide,ultrawide and telephoto. I asked this in samsung forum and they never replied. I am thinking of some technical difficulties that force samsung to disable it. Thought someone from xda aware of this and that's why discussing here. if u don't aware of any particular details about this subject, why don't you ignore it since you have nothing to tell technically about this matter. do u think that due to 8mp telephoto, they disabled it. hope u are clear now.
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Click to collapse
You don't need to justify why you asked your question. There was nothing wrong with it. There are a lot of people on XDA that have insight on things like this.
I'd be more upset over the 1.1x zoom. At least 2x is needed to improve people subjects so 1.1x is pathetic.
RoadToNever said:
I'd be more upset over the 1.1x zoom. At least 2x is needed to improve people subjects so 1.1x is pathetic.
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Click to collapse
Very true. All they do is exploit the high-res pixel counts. But it doesn't change the perception of the image. Focal Length matters when it comes to pleasing portraits. Many portrait photographers I know, choose the lens focal length between 50mm and 100mm. I would say S20 FE telephoto's focal length of 76mm (equivalent/simulated) is better for portraits (less distortion), close to natural looking faces. While the 1.1X zoom should be 30mm which is less than ideal for portraits, a wide angle, it would still have some level of distortion. Basically a gimmick, image stacking and croping the center of a high-res image. This is also the reason the subjects and their photos look different.
Vorion said:
Very true. All they do is exploit the high-res pixel counts. But it doesn't change the perception of the image. Focal Length matters when it comes to pleasing portraits. Many portrait photographers I know, choose the lens focal length between 50mm and 100mm. I would say S20 FE telephoto's focal length of 76mm (equivalent/simulated) is better for portraits (less distortion), close to natural looking faces. While the 1.1X zoom should be 30mm which is less than ideal for portraits, a wide angle, it would still have some level of distortion. Basically a gimmick, image stacking and croping the center of a high-res image. This is also the reason the subjects and their photos look different.
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Keep in mind distortion depends on lens distance to the subject and not focal length. At the same distance distortion between the various lenses will be the same.
50-100mm are good for head and shoulder shots because they allow easier framing. That's it.
I too am disappointed that the telephoto does not allow for portrait mode because that is exactly where it would be great. Have to use 3rd party software to simulate it I guess
Maybe in some future software update
They recently allowed pro mode with the ultra wide which was not possible earlier.
Subtle differences between the s20 & FE telephoto lenses
FE : F2.4
S20 : F2.0 so half a stop wider than FE
FE: 3x optical zoom
S20 : only 1.1 optical zoom and the result is digital zoom
There is a slight edge in image quality with the FE here
Rajeshvg1923 said:
Why samsung has disabled using telephoto lens for taking portrait. The same feature is enables for s20 model which has same camera module as s20fe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Assuming you stil have the phone the one UI 4.1 update now includes the portrait feature in the Gallery so you can add portrait effect to any photo.
Take the photo in telephoto and then use this feature from gallery to get the portrait effect.
I just use gcam, or the new galay app portrait feature, whichever looks better. Then enhance by remini app, because 8mp is not clear enough sometime.
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Taken by gcam, Processed with remini. Model- My wife
shafiaszad said:
I just use gcam, or the new galay app portrait feature, whichever looks better. Then enhance by remini app, because 8mp is not clear enough sometime. View attachment 5697593
Taken by gcam, Processed with remini. Model- My wife
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What gcam do you use. On my s20fe exynos, every single gcam crashes.
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Hi to all
I have several questions about P20 Pro camera:
1. Did x3 optical zoom and x5 hybrid zoo. Have OIS? (Are they stable like optical zoom on S9+?)
2. Did it recording in 1080p 60fps?
3. Can "light fusion technology " be use for 40mp or just dor 10mp?
4. They didn't tell us so much about video recording. Is video recording better then S9+ or not? (I don't believe to DXO mark, but theysey that P20 Pro have better video recording)
5. Did P20 Pro have better HDR like Pixel Xl 2 and S9?
6. Can I use panorama on RGB sensors (40mp)?
7. I see on Youtube that in Pro mode they have just 3200 ISO, but they show us a 102400 ISO. So the camera is not with last software update?
8. Main camera (40mp) dont have OIS? And is AIS like EIS?
Zoom sensor has OIS. The other two don’t.
Light fusion is 10mp Output.
Dxomark rated the video equal to the Pixel 2 scoring overall. They did say it was one of the best at video.
Yes, hence the 114 dxomark photo score. It doesn’t need the Pixel way of making photos using HDR+.
The ISO might be in Auto Mode at that level, but it can do it.
AIS uses some EIS and then AI to correct photo. Huawei say it’s better than OIS which wouldn’t surprise me if true.
gavinfabl said:
Zoom sensor has OIS. The other two don’t.
Light fusion is 10mp Output.
Dxomark rated the video equal to the Pixel 2 scoring overall. They did say it was one of the best at video.
Yes, hence the 114 dxomark photo score. It doesn’t need the Pixel way of making photos using HDR+.
The ISO might be in Auto Mode at that level, but it can do it.
AIS uses some EIS and then AI to correct photo. Huawei say it’s better than OIS which wouldn’t surprise me if true.
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Click to collapse
Thx a lot for your answer i have two more question:
Can I use camera manual mode with 40mp and diffrent ISO?
And, I never usw Huawei, did it have manual video mod like LG V30?
isko01 said:
Thx a lot for your answer i have two more question:
Can I use camera manual mode with 40mp and diffrent ISO?
And, I never usw Huawei, did it have manual video mod like LG V30?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes and yes.
gavinfabl said:
Yes and yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx and thx thx a lot
Camera samples from the devices at the launch.
All the 10MP samples I've seen look excellent. Certainly better than anything currently on the market.
Even in good light, the 40MP shots appear to be poorly lit and also lacking contrast .. I suspect due to both the huge amount of data being read by the camera software, and the very large resulting image, both metering and post processing are highly suspect. I'm sure it will improve with time, but I suspect that it would benefit from Huawei's next-gen SoC.
Zoom lens / sensor photos are surprisingly decent, as is the hybrid zoom.
What I'm most interested in seeing is image stacking / HDR on the main sensor's 10MP output, if it can do that. Huawei's image stacking / HDR has been a lot weaker than Samsung / Google / Open Camera etc previously.
P.S. For anyone wondering, from what I've been told the main 1/1.7" sensor is a Panasonic one.
I have S8 and S9 os not big difference in camera. SO I would like to buy P20 Pro, BUT it really need to be very good camera much better then S8. But what I see from Forbes I was very sad... The P20 Pro is not big improvement from s8, S9 and Iphon x...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin...tout-huawei-p20-pro-vs-iphone-x/#bfc5e745d33b
And if the 40mp camera dark in good light, and you can use it for good photo, why then buy this phone? Why did they put 40mp if they dont have "Renesansa" pgoro and video?
P.S. lets meka a Group in telegram about P20 Pro...
The 10MP output looks a lot better than anything on the market, including your S8 and S9.
It has 40MP because that's the sensor's native resolution. This sensor is used in cameras usually, not phones ... and they have far more sophisticated metering, lenses and dedicated image processing hardware, and can make some use of the 40MP - albeit even then the images usually look far better at a lower multiple of the native resolution, or downscaled. Dynamic range is far better - also seen on the P20 Pro.
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But we're not going to get anything that compares even vaguely well to a half decent camera until we go to larger sensors still, or multi sensor arrays. As I said elsewhere, at least one major smartphone maker is working on a prototype of a phone with a 1" sensor ... whether it sees the light of day will possibly depend on how many units the P20 Pro sells.
mudnightoil said:
The 10MP output looks a lot better than anything on the market, including your S8 and S9.
It has 40MP because that's the sensor's native resolution. This sensor is used in cameras usually, not phones ... and they have far more sophisticated metering, lenses and dedicated image processing hardware, and can make some use of the 40MP - albeit even then the images usually look far better at a lower multiple of the native resolution, or downscaled. Dynamic range is far better - also seen on the P20 Pro.
But we're not going to get anything that compares even vaguely well to a half decent camera until we go to larger sensors still, or multi sensor arrays. As I said elsewhere, at least one major smartphone maker is working on a prototype of a phone with a 1" sensor ... whether it sees the light of day will possibly depend on how many units the P20 Pro sells.
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Click to collapse
Thx for you a answer
So they are not possibility to make with update 40mp much better, or good like 10 mp?
I think if they put better pixel, better sensors like they put and 40mp camera then we can take big photo with very good details when zoom in photo, and very good quality photo. I aspect to see much much much better photo then S9+, pixel xl 2, iphon x... with so much better shadows, lights, and etc...
So 40mp is jusy marketing trick?
What do you want 40MP output for? It's highly unlikely you need 10MP.
You realise 4K is 8MP? Assuming you don't have an 8K TV or monitor yet (33MP)?
How many people do large, super high DPI prints of mobile phone photos ... not many I'd wager.
40mp images. Shot in raw. Say no more. These are amazing.
https://twitter.com/UmihitoTV/status/978969506679853056
10mp is excellent for nearly everything. When you want more, go raw and you’ve got best of both worlds.
---------- Post added at 07:49 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------
I currently have a Samsung S9+ and have been taking some amazing shots with it. Epic shots. See this post
https://gavinsgadgets.com/2018/03/26/soussons-forest-dartmoor-national-park-shot-on-the-samsung-s9/
and https://gavinsgadgets.com/2018/03/2...om-the-samsung-galaxy-s9-featuring-snow-dogs/
So as far as I’m concerned, the P20 Pro has to be better than all of these types of shots. I did have the Huawei Mate 10 Pro that took some amazing pics too. So what I have decided to do, is to focus heavily on the Huawei P20 Pro when it arrives and create very specific and detailed posts on it , including the camera with lots of tips too.
I am fairly confident the P20 Pro will be better from the samples already shared that I’m selling my S9+, even though I actually really like it.
gavinfabl said:
40mp images. Shot in raw. Say no more. These are amazing.
https://twitter.com/UmihitoTV/status/978969506679853056
10mp is excellent for nearly everything. When you want more, go raw and you’ve got best of both worlds.
---------- Post added at 07:49 ---------- Previous post was at 07:42 ----------
I currently have a Samsung S9+ and have been taking some amazing shots with it. Epic shots. See this post
https://gavinsgadgets.com/2018/03/26/soussons-forest-dartmoor-national-park-shot-on-the-samsung-s9/
and https://gavinsgadgets.com/2018/03/2...om-the-samsung-galaxy-s9-featuring-snow-dogs/
So as far as I’m concerned, the P20 Pro has to be better than all of these types of shots. I did have the Huawei Mate 10 Pro that took some amazing pics too. So what I have decided to do, is to focus heavily on the Huawei P20 Pro when it arrives and create very specific and detailed posts on it , including the camera with lots of tips too.
I am fairly confident the P20 Pro will be better from the samples already shared that I’m selling my S9+, even though I actually really like it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Waooo you got very good photo. Did you make all in RAW rhen edit or?
The shots shown in the linked posts were shot all in auto.
gavinfabl said:
The shots shown in the linked posts were shot all in auto.
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Click to collapse
Waooo even with same sensors and all camera hardwer like S8, S9 make much better photos then S8.
P20 Pro have much batter senzor nmand pixel from today competition, did this mean P20Pro will have better photos (take better photos) then S9+, pixel Xl2 and etc? With more light, shadows, details and etc?
isko01 said:
Waooo even with same sensors and all camera hardwer like S8, S9 make much better photos then S8.
P20 Pro have much batter senzor nmand pixel from today competition, did this mean P20Pro will have better photos (take better photos) then S9+, pixel Xl2 and etc? With more light, shadows, details and etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I’m expecting the P20 Pro to be a lot better. And the creative options are huge.
does anyone here knows which camera sensor huawei is using for the pro? is it sony imx or a different one?
dyepnoodle said:
does anyone here knows which camera sensor huawei is using for the pro? is it sony imx or a different one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Someone earlier mentioned it is a Panasonic sensor
isko01 said:
So 40mp is jusy marketing trick?
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Click to collapse
Think back to the PureView tech. On that I believe the camera produced a 5 or 8MP image. In most cases that's the mode you used, even though you could go for the full-sized image. That often had a lot more noise, as the whole point of the 40MP is to use the data from 4 pixels to produce a cleaner 10MP image.
I took a few 40MP images but Google scales it down to 16MP on high-resolution mode (the mode I've chosen as otherwise I'd quickly use up all my storage) so at some point, I'll take a few more and host them elsewhere to share.
Frankly, we've moved on from playing the numbers game where more pixels is anything people cared about. 40MP here is purely to allow Huawei to do its clever stuff (especially the AI assisted night mode) and not just to sound better than the competition, even though I'm sure that's a rather good side-effect for the marketing department!
There are a lot more photos added to the gallery today, including some more from other people who attended the launch.
I am yet to experiment with RAW and the pro mode, and I do wonder if I'll need to as it is such a good phone for just picking up and shooting, letting the phone do its work. The scene detection works very well, although occasionally it may pick a mode you think isn't what you wanted to capture (e.g. a building where it goes for 'blue sky mode' to boost the colour of the sky) although it doesn't ruin the photo. Plus you can turn it off if you prefer. I don't see any need to yet.
hey @jonmorris,
How's the dynamic range compared with the pixel 2/galaxy s9? Maybe, if you own one of them you could post some comparison pictures .
This is really frustrating but most of the time when I'm taking a photo I'm getting this message "sharpening your photo please steady the device". I thought it might be the Master AI so in turned that off... Still happens. Especially with low light shots or zoomed in shots even in bright light.
How the heck do I stop this from happening?? It's so frustrating!
It's when the camera combining the monochrome data to increase detail.
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
Is there no way of stopping this from happening?
quaium said:
Is there no way of stopping this from happening?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use a different camera app or shoot RAW.
It's a baked in part of Huawei multi sensor processing.
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
Basically you can use another app, lose detail and lose the message.
It seems to be a bug in the camera software. It does not handle the telephoto zoom correctly and applies sharpening algorithms when not necessary.
Have a look at the report from Android Authority https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-camera-software-867702/
paul678 said:
It seems to be a bug in the camera software. It does not handle the telephoto zoom correctly and applies sharpening algorithms when not necessary.
Have a look at the report from Android Authority https://www.androidauthority.com/huawei-camera-software-867702/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a bug, it's a separate process from the unsharp mask algorithm in the jpg processing.
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
orangecroc said:
It's not a bug, it's a separate process from the unsharp mask algorithm in the jpg processing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm saying it's a bug because it should not run all processes when zooming with the telephoto. In Android Authority's samples you can see that the post processing seems to run like it is in digital zoom mode even if it's optical.
It's a totaly normal process, and you see the messages when the camera apllies HDR color correction to the photo. Other smartphones just say HDR during the photo saving, this one says this message. It's not a bug, and there's no way of disabling it. It's just NORMAL.
Sent from my Huawei P20 PRO
I understand this message to mean "Please wait while I ruin your photo."
I always get it (literally 100% of the time) when I'm using the 3x zoom and the result is always an absolutely hideous photo in which all detail has been completely destroyed. For some reason the resulting image is always 10MP, which makes me think it was taken using the 40MP sensor and binned down, however it's shot at f2.4 and the phone reports an 80mm equivalent focal length, which suggests the 3x zoom lens but that's an 8MP sensor... So just what the hell is going on? Here's an imgur album of a photo supposedly taken using the zoom lens in ideal photography conditions this morning. The light was very good. I used the Photo mode with AI master turned off, resolution set to 10MP in the settings, standard color setting, 4D predictive focus on.
Unfortunately I can't post links but go to imgur.com album /a/JEMOtHG.
It looked fine on the phone's screen but it looks hideous on a larger screen. Just look at the 100% crop - it would make a lovely watercolor painting. The photo has been sharpened to oblivion and completely ruined. The camera has retained highlights in the clouds to create an unrealistic, though beautiful IMO, cloudscape while blowing away highlights on the ships. The shadows on the trees in the foreground are mangled to the point that it looks like a single mass. This photo is unequivocally garbage.
In fact, 70% of the photos this phone takes look like total garbage. They're not just mediocre, they're bad. They look like enlarged and sharpened photos taken with an ancient, low-resolution digital camera. Maybe it's because I have no idea what the phone's actually doing with its hardware when I'm using it because the software is so bad? It just does stuff contrary to what I might expect based on the information provided at the time of the exposure and the result is invariably bad. I've tried every mode and had zero success in any mode.
Even when using the main sensor, if the lighting is slightly dim, out comes the sharpening and noise-reduction algorithm and out go your details. Even in situations where it's not really necessary, like in good indoor light, the phone goes mental with its post-processing. It even does it in broad daylight when there's a big difference in highlights and/or in the scene. If you have harsh, directional sunlight in one part of the scene, expect it to be sharpened to death.
I read all the glowing reviews and they leave me wondering whether everyone's crazy or whether I am. I really want to like this phone but the camera is 3 or 4 out of 10 so far. It makes me wonder whether Huawei's engineers have ever seen a photo before.
I'm inclined to return this phone. The camera is so bad that I'd rather go back to my Nexus 6P, which is 2.5 years old and takes effortlessly, consistently and predictably superior photos.
It keeps the detail when it says it on mine with 3x zoom.
I think maybe your technique is off?
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orangecroc said:
It keeps the detail when it says it on mine with 3x zoom.
I think maybe your technique is off? View attachment 4536191
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
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What technique do you propose? I don't see any options or means to remedy the problem. It seems to me that no matter what mode I shoot or what settings I toggle, I get images that are post-processed to oblivion when using the 3x zoom, and usually when using the main sensor too.
I'd love to hear what you're doing that's giving you results you're happy with. My guess is that you're also on a newer build - I've got the North American variant CLT-L04 8.1.0.109(C792).
Incidentally, your attachment is scaled down to a small fraction of its original size so it doesn't really demonstrate much.
The 109 firmware is pretty old by now, things got better with the camera when you run firmware 128 or the latest 131. Still things could be improved but it is now better than in the early days of firmware releases.
/ Magnus
This is taken with 5x zoom by hand on auto. I see no problem at all. In fact it's outstanding if consider its taken by hand.
Sent from my Huawei P20 PRO
I definitely think it's your firmware. Things have improved pretty dramatically since your version.
Well that sucks, since no newer firmware is available to me yet. I find it hard to believe Huawei would ship a premium photography-centric device with software that's so defective it can hardly take a photo worth keeping, or that it's selling functionally defective devices with this firmware 2 months after launch. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be too surprised.
I guess I'm at the right place if I want to solve this problem myself but I think I might just take it back and not void my warranty or trouble myself any further. This is an excellent phone and I want to keep it but I'm disappointed - photography should have been the first thing they got right and they fumbled.
Too bad because the specs are brilliant and the cameras are awesome in terms of the hardware. In practice, though, it always comes down to software. Thanks for your help, all.
Build 110
Natural colours and AI off to reduce the amount of processing.
When using zoom, make sure you wait for the stabilisation to start and tuck your elbows in. Where possible use the software shutter button over the volume rocker as it causes less movement.
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
inepty, I second your remarks. That's what I have experienced, too, so far, and I don't think it got much better on .128 which I am using.
A few things to keep in mind:
- The 3x zoom only kicks in if you do not focus to anything closer to 1-1.5 metres. If you do, it will use the digital zoom which looks crappy.
- If you use Auto, Portrait or HDR mode, the images WILL be heavily processed
- If you use Aperture or Pro mode, they will NOT. I am so far happy with the results of these two modes.
- The monochrome mode seems not to suffer from the watercolor effects and the overprocessed look, even though the sensor is smaller
- Turn off the AI. It's pointless. It's optimized for poppy instagram style pictures. If you want this, go ahead. If you want more natural pictures, turn it off.
- Try different camera apps like Open Camera. You will of course lose fancy stuff like HDR, Zoom etc., but the resulting images are much more natural without any oversharpening or watercolor effects. You will have some grain, tho (because no noise reduction).
- The Zoom is a bit finicky. Sometimes, it gives me really good, clear and beautiful results, sometimes it looks like a crappy digital zoom picture, even though the exifs state that the zoom lens was used. Not sure what's the problem behind this.
- The night mode is a bit of a tech gimmick. Yep, it shoots photos at night but they are really blurry and lack details. If you resize them to 1000px, they will look great, but they are not made for larger resolutions or big screens. I know, a blurry picture is better than no picture at all, but I wouldn't use it the way Huawei seems to advertise it (Hey, take stunning city photos at night!) because the results are messy, unless resized to a stamp.
- And finally: The raw files are quite good most of the time. For pictures that are important (Aka: Photography instead of documentation), it's probably best to use the raw file and develop this.
all the pugs said:
inepty, I second your remarks. That's what I have experienced, too, so far, and I don't think it got much better on .128 which I am using.
A few things to keep in mind:
- The 3x zoom only kicks in if you do not focus to anything closer to 1-1.5 metres. If you do, it will use the digital zoom which looks crappy.
- If you use Auto, Portrait or HDR mode, the images WILL be heavily processed
- If you use Aperture or Pro mode, they will NOT. I am so far happy with the results of these two modes.
- The monochrome mode seems not to suffer from the watercolor effects and the overprocessed look, even though the sensor is smaller
- Turn off the AI. It's pointless. It's optimized for poppy instagram style pictures. If you want this, go ahead. If you want more natural pictures, turn it off.
- Try different camera apps like Open Camera. You will of course lose fancy stuff like HDR, Zoom etc., but the resulting images are much more natural without any oversharpening or watercolor effects. You will have some grain, tho (because no noise reduction).
- The Zoom is a bit finicky. Sometimes, it gives me really good, clear and beautiful results, sometimes it looks like a crappy digital zoom picture, even though the exifs state that the zoom lens was used. Not sure what's the problem behind this.
- The night mode is a bit of a tech gimmick. Yep, it shoots photos at night but they are really blurry and lack details. If you resize them to 1000px, they will look great, but they are not made for larger resolutions or big screens. I know, a blurry picture is better than no picture at all, but I wouldn't use it the way Huawei seems to advertise it (Hey, take stunning city photos at night!) because the results are messy, unless resized to a stamp.
- And finally: The raw files are quite good most of the time. For pictures that are important (Aka: Photography instead of documentation), it's probably best to use the raw file and develop this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you select 3x zoom it uses that lens.
It doesn't use digital zoom just because you're close to the subject.
The stabilisation struggles to engage on close subject, so this may be the issue you're encountering.
These are 1x then 3x then 5x then 10x
Even the 10x digital zoom doesn't look as bad as people seem to be making out.
All are auto, standard colour, no AI in poor light.
Build 110
Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk
orangecroc said:
If you select 3x zoom it uses that lens.
It doesn't use digital zoom just because you're close to the subject.
The stabilisation struggles to engage on close subject, so this may be the issue you're encountering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, it doesn't work that easily, at least on my device. You can select 3x zoom and still get a digital zoom image not shot with the tele lens. Try it! Try close distance and fast burts, you will see it yourself.
And please do post full resolutions of your images. Anything moderately sharp can look good at this small size.
Hi All
I've been reading around this for a while and can't quite decide what this sensor can do. I appreciate it's a Quad Bayer arrangement which is very effective for grouping pixels together which allows for good performance in low light and produces 12MP images.
I notice the spec sheet says "48 effective pixels" but I understand this means there are a few extra pixels round the edge used to discover brightness etc, or does effective mean not really?
This could be a dense question, but can this sensor produce true 48MP images? I notice the RAW output on the Mi9 is only 12MP so is probably 48MP pixel binned.
What I'm really looking for 48MP RAW. I'm guessing the output would be very soft and unsharp, but then I can do my own post processing to suit my taste.
Edit: The issues seems to be an incorrect implementation of Camera2 Api which reports max resolution of 3000x4000 for the 48MP camera. It's been reported below so if you'd like to see 48MP jpegs and RAW for 3rd party apps, please visit the link and confirm the issue in a post below.
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
Thanks for reading.....
Steve
picitup said:
Hi All
I've been reading around this for a while and can't quite decide what this sensor can do. I appreciate it's a Quad Bayer arrangement which is very effective for grouping pixels together which allows for good performance in low light and produces 12MP images.
I notice the spec sheet says "48 effective pixels" but I understand this means there are a few extra pixels round the edge used to discover brightness etc, or does effective mean not really?
This could be a dense question, but can this sensor produce true 48MP images? I notice the RAW output on the Mi9 is only 12MP so is probably 48MP pixel binned.
What I'm really looking for 48MP RAW. I'm guessing the output would be very soft and unsharp, but then I can do my own post processing to suit my taste.
Thanks for reading.....
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my mi9 hasnt arrived yet, but from what I read, it CAN output 48mp in an manual mode (not auto). Regarding RAW instead of Jpeg: i don't know if stock app can do it at 48mp, but gcam most probably will (at least when the port is finalized). But using 48mp will disable HDR because its somehow Chipset limited.
Hi Mine has arrived and can confirm the stock camera will take 48MP jpegs. Th RAW output is only 12MP.
But I wonder is it really 48MP? If the sensor is quad bayer, meaning that 4 green pixels are grouped together, then 4 red etc. how can you possibly get full res out of that arrangement?
It looks like this:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Cheers
Steve
Well I think I've answered my own question and it seems to be yes; it can output true 48MP images;
If you slip one pixel right and down, you can group pixels into a traditional RGGB Bayer arrangement. Now that's clever!
If you look at the attached image, I've drawn white boxes around each group of 4 pixels, ignoring the 1st row and column. You can see in each box, there is an RGGB combination, so it's job done!
My brain hurts.....
Steve
picitup said:
Well I think I've answered my own question and it seems to be yes; it can output true 48MP images;
If you slip one pixel right and down, you can group pixels into a traditional RGGB Bayer arrangement. Now that's clever!
If you look at the attached image, I've drawn white boxes around each group of 4 pixels, ignoring the 1st row and column. You can see in each box, there is an RGGB combination, so it's job done!
My brain hurts.....
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's like a Pentile Amoled so? It's not a real 48mp like a RGB Amoled would be.
Well I think it's similar as there are twice as many green pixels as red or blue (the same as all Bayer sensors), but I think you can get real 48MP out of it by slipping the matrix by 1 pixel as shown above.
Is that that what you were asking?
Cheers
Steve
Just a quick update on this.
The Camera2 API is Level 3, but the max photo resolutions of the front and rear cameras are misreported for 3rd party apps. Using Camera2 API Probe from here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airbeat.device.inspector
Shows that the rear camera is 4000x3000 (12MP) and should be 8000x6000 (48MP). The front camera is reported as 2592x1940 (5MP) and should be 5184x3880 (20MP).
The upshot of this is that 3rd party apps produce 12MP images from the rear camera and 5MP images from the front camera.
I've just unlocked my phone and installed xiaomi.eu rom 9.3.28 from here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/xi.../files/xiaomi.eu/MIUI-WEEKLY-RELEASES/9.3.28/
But no improvement, it's just the same.
I'll report this as a bug and report back. What I'm really looking for is 48MP RAW for 3rd parties.
Wish me luck....
Steve
picitup said:
Just a quick update on this.
The Camera2 API is Level 3, but the max photo resolutions of the front and rear cameras are misreported for 3rd party apps. Using Camera2 API Probe from here:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.airbeat.device.inspector
Shows that the rear camera is 4000x3000 (12MP) and should be 8000x6000 (48MP). The front camera is reported as 2592x1940 (5MP) and should be 5184x3880 (20MP).
The upshot of this is that 3rd party apps produce 12MP images from the rear camera and 5MP images from the front camera.
I've just unlocked my phone and installed xiaomi.eu rom 9.3.28 from here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/xi.../files/xiaomi.eu/MIUI-WEEKLY-RELEASES/9.3.28/
But no improvement, it's just the same.
I'll report this as a bug and report back. What I'm really looking for is 48MP RAW for 3rd parties.
Wish me luck....
Steve
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Sony sensor is not a real 48mp sensor. That's only marketing.
It's a 12mp sensor with real-time HDR
Gesendet von meinem MI 9 mit Tapatalk
Hi thanks for your reply. Do you have the data sheet for the sensor? I've scoured the Internet but only found a news release.
I'd really like to understand this if I can. So the 48MP photos in the stock cam are just upscaled 12MP?
Cheers
Steve
I've reported this as a bug to Xiaomi here:
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
So if you want 48MP for 3rd party apps, please verify it on the link above and maybe we can get it!
Cheers
Steve
Check datasheet, it's 48Mpix sensor, but won't produce 48Mpix images without array conversion.
Pretty nice article about it:
https://www.androidpit.com/48-mp-or-not-look-at-sony-new-camera-sensor
Hi
Thanks yes I did read that article, but think in my 4th post I explained how to get true 48MP from it. I'm at the limits of my knowledge here, so could be very wrong
The Sony news release says:
When shooting bright scenes such as daytime outdoors, the built-in, original signal processing function performs array conversion, making it possible to obtain high-definition 48 effective megapixel images in real time
https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201807/18-060E/index.html
what do you think?
This article:
https://www.quora.com/Why-aren-t-all-48MP-sensors-born-equal
Compares the IMX586 and the Samsung GM1, both 48MP sensors. It says the difference is that the IMX586 has integrated array conversion and can produce true 48MP images, whereas the GM1 does not and can offer only 12MP pixel binned images.
When shooting bright scenes, such as an outdoor environment during daytime, the built-in, original signal processing function performs array conversion (see diagram below), making it possible to obtain high-definition 48 effective megapixel images in real time. Thus, the Sony IMX586 can produce true 48MP photos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds promising....
I can only imagine how amazing photos it will be possible to output with Lightroom using 48mpx raws. From what I can read here, it really sounds it will be possible to achieve as hardware-wise everything on paper says it is producing real 48mpx. I just wonder if it's possible to "unlock" this with gcam. Probably I can feel that root will be needed ...
brainscollector said:
I can only imagine how amazing photos it will be possible to output with Lightroom using 48mpx raws. From what I can read here, it really sounds it will be possible to achieve as hardware-wise everything on paper says it is producing real 48mpx. I just wonder if it's possible to "unlock" this with gcam. Probably I can feel that root will be needed ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I think the potential is there. I've reported it as a bug to Xiaomi higher up, so please click the link and comment and maybe Xiaomi will fix it!
picitup said:
Yes I think the potential is there. I've reported it as a bug to Xiaomi higher up, so please click the link and comment and maybe Xiaomi will fix it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What we need from xiaomi is RAW 48 mp, higher bitrate of the mic, maybe a few other little things and we have the perfect phone. How can we SPAM xioami to do that ?!!
Well 48MP RAW is reported, if you follow the link I reported above, you enter your own bug and hopefully they will fix it. I'm new to Xiaomi so I don't know how much notice they take of bug reports, but they say the more users that confirm the bug, the more likely they will fix it.
Just a quick bump.
If you want to see 48MP RAW on the Mi9, please follow the link on the first post and confirm the issue then hopefully Xiaomi will take note.
Cheers
Please ignore the link on the first post as it keeps getting changed. Here's the link:
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
Cheers
picitup said:
Please ignore the link on the first post as it keeps getting changed. Here's the link:
http://en.miui.com/thread-6249265-1-1.html
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your screenshoot shows 8000*6000 on the last row for photo size, so not a good proof.
FYI, just noticed the release of the Expert Raw app by Samsung, supporting all lenses for the S21 Ultra. Editing can be done through Adobe Lighthouse for Samsung.
The app is release in South Korea, but als available through mirror sites.
More info here
thanks.
Manual controls over the telephoto lenses are awesome. However sadly "RAW" here is used loosely since there's built in noise reduction that cannot be adjusted.
Top is "Expert RAW" DNG to JPG with just adjusting brightness. No noise reduction is applied and yet there is very little detail. Bottom picture is just stock camera night mode. More noise, but also more detail.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
I'm testing Expert RAW now and mus confirm, noise reduction exist even on DNG file. You suggest to use other app?
I'll test it tonight
Right after downgrading to 11 I saw this post. Back to 12... Again and, yes, it's True. This is NOT pure RAW. I posted 3 photos down here so you can see what's going on. I apologize in advance for this long post but I wanted to show the actual view on the user's screen.
1st: Expert raw actually takes a RAW photo (notice the high chroma noise) but immediately processes it, to reduce the noise as seen with the yellow progress circle in the lower part of the screen.
2nd: after processing, the photo looks like this
3rd: after opening the photo in Photoshop Express, it looks like this:
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Randi03 said:
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sad but True. Higher ISO level = more agressive processing.
This example with some lightroom touches from x10 tele captured on ISO 50 but on tripod gimbal with 1/15s time.
Glad that they gave us full control at all, that's the most important thing, but they also had to give something back.
More examples with little lightroom postpro. All lenses and this time all captured from hand. Expert RAW creates multiple ammount of photos to some kind of HDR RAW. Anyway theare are much better than photos from standard camera app. Less processing but still exist.
Randi03 said:
Right after downgrading to 11 I saw this post. Back to 12... Again and, yes, it's True. This is NOT pure RAW. I posted 3 photos down here so you can see what's going on. I apologize in advance for this long post but I wanted to show the actual view on the user's screen.
1st: Expert raw actually takes a RAW photo (notice the high chroma noise) but immediately processes it, to reduce the noise as seen with the yellow progress circle in the lower part of the screen. View attachment 54668372nd: after processing, the photo looks like this
View attachment 5466841
3rd: after opening the photo in Photoshop Express, it looks like this:
View attachment 5466843
To the untrained eye, this looks like such a great, clean image. But this is clearly, not RAW and it is not what users asked for.
Honestly, Samsung is frustrating. They give you the feeling that they are listening to their customers. We ask them for oranges and they give us watermellons. My theory is that they absolutely know they have mediocre sensors in their flagships and do not want to risk their image by letting you see the RAW capability of their camera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol that's the thing though, the sensors aren't mediocre. Having a Snapdragon with access to telephoto RAW for a while now, I can definitely say that they're pretty good albeit a little soft and lack contrast. I think it's that Samsung's algorithm is still problematic and they are still catering to the common user who they think is scared of any signs of noise.
Here's a zoomed in picture of a 10x GCam RAW zoomed in with Photoshop Express without noise reduction
And here's the Expert RAW version
Wow, the Gcam looks very nice. That's exactly what I hope to get out of the Exynos someday )
Expert raw seems to be the answer to apple's proraw or I can't remember the exact name. Basically it's 6 raw shots stacked together to help reduce the amount of noise and increase dynamic range over a single raw since these phones are usually meant to have lots of internal post precessing after the raw shot to look good. I was pretty excited when I read apple had come up with it. Turned out to be disappointing. Looks like Samsung's answer isn't better either.
It shows the difficulty of processing and stacking multiple images. I'll stick to my gcam with snap dragon as I'm super happy with it. 10x is by far my favorite lens to take portraits, never use the fake portrait mode, even in 3x it can't beat gcam 10x. Google processing is just that good. If pixel 6 pro had a 10x periscope I was probably switching phones... Will have to wait some more
PhilMorin said:
Expert raw seems to be the answer to apple's proraw or I can't remember the exact name. Basically it's 6 raw shots stacked together to help reduce the amount of noise and increase dynamic range over a single raw since these phones are usually meant to have lots of internal post precessing after the raw shot to look good. I was pretty excited when I read apple had come up with it. Turned out to be disappointing. Looks like Samsung's answer isn't better either.
It shows the difficulty of processing and stacking multiple images. I'll stick to my gcam with snap dragon as I'm super happy with it. 10x is by far my favorite lens to take portraits, never use the fake portrait mode, even in 3x it can't beat gcam 10x. Google processing is just that good. If pixel 6 pro had a 10x periscope I was probably switching phones... Will have to wait some more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what GCAM mod are you using btw?
yoyosquad said:
what GCAM mod are you using btw?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Arnova, one of the first version that was released. I've been really happy with it so haven't bothered updating to one of the latest version that beserker has posted.
PhilMorin said:
Arnova, one of the first version that was released. I've been really happy with it so haven't bothered updating to one of the latest version that beserker has posted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if that's not a problem, can you write us exact version of this release?
ski.ign said:
if that's not a problem, can you write us exact version of this release?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gcam build number is 8.1.101, might still be available from the links in beserker gcam for snapdragon thread
test
How can I install it? It's a zip file
Hello, i have question - how LOSELESS JPEG function works? Can You share some photos without editing it in external editors like lightroom? I'm interested how jpg from expert camera looks like.
I don't see any different between this camera end the stock camera
Hi, I am not sure what you mean by lossless jpeg. I couldn't find a setting for this. Here you can find 6 JPEG photos. 3 with stock, 3 with expert. All settings (ISO, Exposure, Focus distance, White balance) should be exactly the same as I have manually selected them while keeping the phone on a tripod. Auto HDR was disabled too. https://we.tl/t-WSBZjBGaNB
Also, I am on the Exynos variant.
Dear all,
I just got a Samsung S20 FE 5G (internally SM-G781B/DS) which I bougt mainly because I wanted a smartphone with SD Card an a telephoto lens.
After some test shots I'm quite confused about when it uses the tele lens and when it "zooms" in software.
When I switch to 3x it images often are blurry and exif data says Digital zoom: 3.0x
Sometimes they look ok.
In both cases image dimensions are 4032x3024 pixels while aperture is either f/1,8 (software) oer f/2,4 (hardware). As I read from the specs, the resolution of tele camera should be lower.
So it looks like it is not reliable if it does use software or hardware zoom and always uses some "pixel invention".
I tried to use Open Camera and Gcam, but the can't find tele camera.
Does anybody know why this happens and if there is a way to definitely use tele lens with it's real solution?
Hi,
This phone "decides" when to actually use telephoto depending on distance from the object and amount of light it has.
Basically It mostly won't use telephoto for objects 1meter closer and if you're taking photos in night.
Try taking photo of something far, like a landscape in the day, after 3x zoom it should switch to telephoto, you can test it by covering the lens with your finger.
xda4me2 said:
Dear all,
I just got a Samsung S20 FE 5G (internally SM-G781B/DS) which I bougt mainly because I wanted a smartphone with SD Card an a telephoto lens.
After some test shots I'm quite confused about when it uses the tele lens and when it "zooms" in software.
When I switch to 3x it images often are blurry and exif data says Digital zoom: 3.0x
Sometimes they look ok.
In both cases image dimensions are 4032x3024 pixels while aperture is either f/1,8 (software) oer f/2,4 (hardware). As I read from the specs, the resolution of tele camera should be lower.
So it looks like it is not reliable if it does use software or hardware zoom and always uses some "pixel invention".
I tried to use Open Camera and Gcam, but the can't find tele camera.
Does anybody know why this happens and if there is a way to definitely use tele lens with it's real solution?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bro I think it doesn't has an hardware zoom
alienbrain707 said:
Bro I think it doesn't has an hardware zoom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has telephoto camera, aka 3 times zoomed in in comparison to main camera hence zoom camera. Btw no one said it does have hardware zoom.
I noticed worse quality photos after last update and also that 3x varies between the cropped main camera or telephoto camera. Maybe depends on the light conditions.
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Thread moved.