I am actually hoping to speak with doixah directly, but I'm a newbie so I can't post in that thread, but I do hope doixah reconsiders his position in this regard, the thought I have about improving the x8 gesture is focused on improving the fake dual touch capability of the phone, I was wondering if doixah can do this:
assuming that we only have one sensor for the finger, but every time we press a specific area at a one by one manner the phone instantly recognizes it right? so why not place a loop in every instance where dual touch is required? the thought is to recognize both fingers in a threaded way, this is because no two fingers can be at the same position at the same time so every time we switch from one finger to another the coordinate is passed as if there are two fingers...
since both ends are always recognized in the dual touch modes why not just swap and retain each coordinate that is not exactly or partially the same with each other?
a pseudocode for the idea that i want to impart
coor = finger1.coor
coor2 = finger1.coor
while screen is touched{
coor = finger1.coor (1st end)
delay(1ms);
if(finger1.coor(2nd end)!=finger1.coor(1st end))
coor2 = finger1.coor(2nd end)
}
I am assuming that for every delay a new coordinate is scanned so coor and coor2 is bound to acquire different coordinates which will be fed to the android os thus a dual touch can be simulated by a single touch, hopefully doixah notices this or someone is kind enough to forward the idea to doixah
its doixanh .
Sent from my X8 using Tapatalk
sorry, don't mean to disrespect, hello, please somebody help me out with doixahn, I do believe this is the safest way to simulate dual touch with one fingerprint, it just needs the proper arguments... hellllllppppp
sorry... help doixanh...
Hi, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but if you wanted DX's help, you should have written him a PM, but DX himself stated, that he doesn't need/want to improve DT on x8, therefore he is probably more interested in froyobread development, than in DT improving.
As for the idea, I don't think, this would be useful. Gestures for zoom work right, only think, that could be better is IMHO game mode, so even if the DT simulation worked, it wouldn't be very effective and it would cost a lot of performance, so the games would be unplayable with it. Also I don't think that it could ever be done this way, because even if you swapped the coordinates you wouldn't get two fingers, you would have one spot pressed + one finger movement at the time, which would be very ineffectively written code for just a single touch.
I don't say, I'm right, it's just my opinion, if someone managed to do this, I would be happy as hell.
Mr. Hat said:
Hi, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but if you wanted DX's help, you should have written him a PM, but DX himself stated, that he doesn't need/want to improve DT on x8, therefore he is probably more interested in froyobread development, than in DT improving.
As for the idea, I don't think, this would be useful. Gestures for zoom work right, only think, that could be better is IMHO game mode, so even if the DT simulation worked, it wouldn't be very effective and it would cost a lot of performance, so the games would be unplayable with it. Also I don't think that it could ever be done this way, because even if you swapped the coordinates you wouldn't get two fingers, you would have one spot pressed + one finger movement at the time, which would be very ineffectively written code for just a single touch.
I don't say, I'm right, it's just my opinion, if someone managed to do this, I would be happy as hell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but this fingers would swith so this will stop one finger on 1 ms and allow to move other finger for 1 ms then againg and again and then this will look like real dual-touch.
Yes i get that, but how would you know, which one is moving at the time, correct me if I'm wrong, but when there are already two spots pressed and the coordinates are already swapped, you can't move the first finger, you would have to rise one finger and the press the screen again, because there is only one touch recognized. To make it work this way, we would need DT digitizer, this is not possible to make on single touch screen. The 1ms switching is useless, you can't recognize if the moving finger is the first or the second one, you would only knew, that one of them is moving.
well for example in dual touch games...
we normally have two sticks placed at ideal positions right? so suppose this is the bottom part of your screen and your controls are placed at the bottom like in figure 1 in my attached files
if we swap coordinates between the two points and detect the presence of the finger within a prescribed range, imagine the asterisks as finger 1 and finger 2 and the 0 as their ranges, ideally even if we only have a single touch since we have a prescribed dimension where a touch must be made, two distinct coordinates can always be extracted from a single touch screen within an interval, another illusion would be our hand ideally touching a side of the screen, this is for none game mode, though i doubt that there is a need to improve it,
imagine this scenario; figure 2 in my attached files
since ideally we are holding the phone at two different places at a time, imagine both our thumbs holding a position near each asterisks, we can move it around within the rectangular boundaries and swap coordinates relative to the asterisk, again in every interval, a different coordinate must be swapped, so in order to specify which is which we just have to set boundaries and relative positions to identify that this finger is holding coordinate 1 and the other is holding coordinate 2.
the only real limitation i see is one a finger breaches the region specified for dual touch, other than that I do believe that this kind of illusion is more than enough for most applications
well this is a pseudocode for my figure 1 illusion, by default we are going to include ranges, i will represent it with arrays
0 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
suppose our boundaries for finger 1 are 0 1 2 10 12 19 20 21 and the center is
11, then for finger 2 the boundaries are 7 8 9 16 18 25 26 27 and the center is 17
getOtherFinger(currentPos){
return !currentPos
}
getFinger(fingerPos, otherFingerPos, BoundaryCoor){
tempPos = null
if(withinBoundary(fingerPos)==true)
tempPos = fingerPos
else if(withinBoundar(fingerPos)
tempPos = otherFingerPos
return tempPos
}
detectFingers(){
boundaryCoor1, boundaryCoor2
while(screenIsTouched){
if(there are two fingers){
fingerpos = getOtherFinger(fingerPos)
delay()
fingerpos2 = getOtherFinger(fingerPos)
delay()
finger1 = getFinger(fingerPos, fingerPos2, boundary1)
finger2 = getFinger(fingerPos, fingerPos2, boundary2)
}
}
}
I'm not an expert and my idea is only a bit near to what i am trying to achieve, but at least hey i'm trying to visualize so folks help me out, I know there are a lot of programmers out there with insane skills when it comes to this
Yes i get that, but how would you know, which one is moving at the time, correct me if I'm wrong, but when there are already two spots pressed and the coordinates are already swapped, you can't move the first finger, you would have to rise one finger and the press the screen again, because there is only one touch recognized. To make it work this way, we would need DT digitizer, this is not possible to make on single touch screen. The 1ms switching is useless, you can't recognize if the moving finger is the first or the second one, you would only knew, that one of them is moving.
sir, that is why we need to use a relative post and a boundary, so that every time we swap to extract the coordinate of a finger, using a post or a central position and a boundary we have a basis for its movement and which finger is 1 or 2
plz check this one
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1158173
Primark said:
Yes i get that, but how would you know, which one is moving at the time, correct me if I'm wrong, but when there are already two spots pressed and the coordinates are already swapped, you can't move the first finger, you would have to rise one finger and the press the screen again, because there is only one touch recognized. To make it work this way, we would need DT digitizer, this is not possible to make on single touch screen. The 1ms switching is useless, you can't recognize if the moving finger is the first or the second one, you would only knew, that one of them is moving.
sir, that is why we need to use a relative post and a boundary, so that every time we swap to extract the coordinate of a finger, using a post or a central position and a boundary we have a basis for its movement and which finger is 1 or 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your idea is great actually but idk if its possible to make maybe that's how the Nokia n8 digitizer work to simulate multitouch! But for now the x8gesture game mood is not bad but its not accurate around the edges of the screen if some Dec can look into your idea or improve the x8gesture this will make lots of people's days and make this phone alot better....thanks for reading that long
Sent from my X8 using XDA Premium App
sir skyboyextreme, perhaps some of your friends can relay the idea to the experts, I think some of our developers can at least test if my thought is possible, nothing to lose here right, besides it's for the improvement of our beloved x8
sir skyboyextreme, can you please elaborate me about the n8 digitizer, i would like to know some details, you said it simulates multitouch, does that mean it only has a single touch digitizer just like our x8 or it has dual touch capabilities that is simulating multitouch functions
Primark said:
sir skyboyextreme, can you please elaborate me about the n8 digitizer, i would like to know some details, you said it simulates multitouch, does that mean it only has a single touch digitizer just like our x8 or it has dual touch capabilities that is simulating multitouch functions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I read, N8 has the same digitizer like x8 (synaptics) so it has a Single Touch Digitizer, but emulates dual touch.. Well again that's what I read
Yeaah it's a veru good idea,Primark. I read a thread where a guy said that the DEVs are already working on it. Is it true ??
Sent from my X8 using XDA App
Sir Kimpoy1994, If what you say about n8 is true sir, then perhaps someone could acquire the code for the touch panel of n8, someone could probably recode it to work for x8, that is probably our best shot for a dual touch emulation
Primark said:
sir skyboyextreme, can you please elaborate me about the n8 digitizer, i would like to know some details, you said it simulates multitouch, does that mean it only has a single touch digitizer just like our x8 or it has dual touch capabilities that is simulating multitouch functions
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nokia n8 already got DT and it's confirmed having the same digitizer t1021a....so if they could simulate DT events using a single touch digitizer similar to ours then i guess we can achieve the same as they did but it's gonna be hard i guess and since there is no body interested into looking at this then i guess we are outta luck at least for now
What?? I thought that DEVs were interested by improving this fantastic smartphone. I mean they develop the android system,but I think that X8 Synaptic owners ( 50% of x8 owners i think ^^) would be so happy.If only they developped that DT, I think they would have completed the "biggest" defy of the X8
.....sorry for bad English, from France
Sent from my X8 using XDA App
sir skyboextreme, then I guess our only option is to make some noise and hope somebody hears us, the key to our dt is n8, sir doixahn, I do hope your reading this, since you were the one who started the gesture I believe you have the best shot in creating it for us
How can we make some noise ?? I think we just need doixanh or someone who knows him...
Sent from my X8 using XDA App
Related
Been trying to google this for a while, but is the Diamond multitouch capable?
Been playing the Maggot Pinball and seems like you can touch both flippers at the same time. Or hold down one flipper and use the other. If so, can't someone write a decent drum kit app for the Diamond? Iphone's killing us in this area.
Well, even if the diamond is screen itself multitouch (which I doubt), could WM6.1 handle it ? I thought it was for WM7
Don't know if it's related, but I just discovered that trying to slide with the stylus is impossible for me, I can do it with the finger only, no matter how strong I press...
hard for me too, but not impossible
my opinion is that multi touch sucks ass, 99% of the time you hold your phone in one hand, with only your thumb available for touch.
Its useless for normal use, and its battery draining since the screen must handle more parameters at once.
so i think iphone lacks something to wm.
grr
multi-touch may be good for some things but bad for others, it depends really on the application at hand (or game).
i'm not sure if this is correct, but i had read somewhere that multi-touch is purely driver and software related, and not related to the hardware itself. i remember the old macbook pros were originally single-touch until they were given a driver/software update which enabled multi-touch functionality. please correct me if i'm wrong as i don't read up too much on macs.
It's not purely software, the hardware has to support it. I dont know much on the topic but i do know there are only a few types of touch screen and only a certain type supports it. I think they normally use an X Y grid and send pulses down the x and the Y and see where they meet, and then thats where your finger is. However if you have 2 fingers then it doesnt know what to do. Multitouch requires a different kind of hardware.
surface_rom, i think you're being a bit harsh on multi-touc, it's most deffinitely not battery draining.
ljames28 said:
It's not purely software, the hardware has to support it. I dont know much on the topic but i do know there are only a few types of touch screen and only a certain type supports it. I think they normally use an X Y grid and send pulses down the x and the Y and see where they meet, and then thats where your finger is. However if you have 2 fingers then it doesnt know what to do. Multitouch requires a different kind of hardware.
surface_rom, i think you're being a bit harsh on multi-touc, it's most deffinitely not battery draining.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I do find that multi-touch on the diamond wouldn't be that beneficial, considering the screen size and device size (in comparison to that of the iPhone, which has a larger screen and overall size) and the fact that you would use the phone 1-handed majority of the time (I do, unless I am typing where I would hold the phone with 2 hands to type with 2 thumbs).
Huey85 said:
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I do find that multi-touch on the diamond wouldn't be that beneficial, considering the screen size and device size (in comparison to that of the iPhone, which has a larger screen and overall size) and the fact that you would use the phone 1-handed majority of the time (I do, unless I am typing where I would hold the phone with 2 hands to type with 2 thumbs).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, bit too small for multi-touch. You could only do that zooming in thing diagonally, theres not enough room sideways.
Btw the fact you can actually use the Diamond one handed is quite a good thing that people may take for granted, how many other non-smartphone WM phones can you type one handed, or even use one handed for that matter? Normally you need the stylus or you need the other hand to steady the phone while you use your nail to move around the phone.
Yes, quite true. I absolutely love the Diamond's size and being able to use it 1-handedly for majority of the tasks which I use it for.
surface_rom said:
my opinion is that multi touch sucks ass, 99% of the time you hold your phone in one hand, with only your thumb available for touch.
Its useless for normal use, and its battery draining since the screen must handle more parameters at once.
so i think iphone lacks something to wm.
grr
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree! 100%
Just found this on some other site:
HTC Diamond's Hidden Multitouch Revealed
If you're reading the back of the HTC Diamond's box, it doesn't show some little child laughing with glee as he pinches in and out of webpages or draws with two fingers at once, in fact, it doesn't even list multitouch as a feature at all. But just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. When using the program NavDbgTool, HTC's secret weapon is uncovered—the entire front case supports tandem touching.
if the touchscreen is pressure sensitive on the xperia of course. does anyone think it would be possible to code a program to measure that pressure in mass?
i think it would be so sick to use the xperia as a scale
It can not measure mass. Any more pressure will break the screen. Use your common sense!
its not a matter of common sense.
what do you mean anymore pressure would break the screen?
im sure by slightly touching my screen im putting less than a gram of pressure per sq. inch on the screen so im not sure what your talking about because im not going to measure a boulder on the thing, use your common sense..
Yes, it's definitely possible and would not be too hard to code. One way would be to define a measurement area ("scale") on the screen then gradually increase sensitivity settings (via a program, of course) in the registry until a touch was registered in that area. Initially, the registry values would need to be calibrated against a set of small weights (up to a reasonable weight, of course). Anyone got their high school physics weights?
But yo, what would be the good of a tiny xperia scale?
Y'all are crazy.
i have installed your soft touch on my xperia and i love it, where would the registry settings be found to change the sensitivity?
I think it's a really interesting idea to test.
I think it can be done since X1's touchscreen is resistive so it will be able to sense graduations in changing pressure.
Had you had an IPhone, it's capacitative screen would made this impossible.
The thing is, working with registry settings won't do the trick in my opinion. I think you need something more low level (like a driver maybe) to talk directly to the touchscreen.
If I were you I'd go and check the WM 6.1 SDK and see what it makes visible thru its API for the touchscreen part.
It would be worth investigating how the driver accesses the touchscreen hardware.
I'd be happy to try and help with the programming btw
It's the fingerpressure registry setting that changes it.
But storm' is right. I forgot that those registry settings don't take effect until a reset, so you'd need another method to either dynamically change the sensitivity or capture the value of the pressure as it is being applied.
ok, thanks storm seeing as this would be my first ever program to code I would really appreciate the help..
I was looking at the SDK site last night but didnt quite know what i was looking for, but now ill research the touchscreen driver(s) and how they are accessed by the phone and how we can use them to our benefit.
there is a touch.dll file in the windows folder im wondering if this registers the pressure applied..
Sweet,
I'm also gonna investigate more
Keep you posted
hmmm, i guess the first step would be to create a program that accesses the touch.dll to see if it records pressure applied?
3 guesses as to what you guys want to use this for
SamAsQ said:
3 guesses as to what you guys want to use this for
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL They'd be better off with a Touch Pro. Don't want evidence getting under that recessed screen
e: Bloody great idea though. i'm not sure how it'll really work or how accurate it'll be... An object placed on the screen might have multiple contact points, and as the screen cannot detect multiple points pressure from the weight might be exerted elsewhere on the screen and not detected.
squidgyb said:
lol :d they'd be better off with a touch pro. Don't want evidence getting under that recessed screen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahahahaahahahahahahahahahah :d:d:d:d:d:d:d:d
SquidgyB said:
LOL They'd be better off with a Touch Pro. Don't want evidence getting under that recessed screen
e: Bloody great idea though. i'm not sure how it'll really work or how accurate it'll be... An object placed on the screen might have multiple contact points, and as the screen cannot detect multiple points pressure from the weight might be exerted elsewhere on the screen and not detected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true squidgy, but,
ok but you know on the fish panel?
i can place four fingers on the screen and they will find the exact center lift one finger up they will find the exact center of the three remaining fingers etc etc maybe this can help us in our mission..
so say you have a nice beautiful green flower that is making contact at three seperate points on the screen maybe we can incorporate what is going on in the fish panel to find the center and compare the pressure applied that the touch.dll hopefully will give us, and that we hope to figure by placing weights on the screen
I don't think the SDK will help us in our pursuit... I think it only gives back X,Y pairs...
We'd have to get pretty low level on this one.
The thing is, in theory its actually do-able.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12804586/fourwire-resistivetype-touch-screen-with-usb-interface
This guy built its own drawing "board" by using a resistive touchscreen. The interesting thing is that he provides two methods of actually calculating the touch resistance which means that
1) it's possible to use it as a balance because the resistance would be dependent on the pressure, and the pressure depends on the mass in our case
2) it doesn't matter how many points you have... There's only one Rtouch so this means it calculates the overall pressure that is exerted onto the touchscreen. Even though you can only determine one X,Y pair...that's of no interest to us...
All this to say that in theory this is actually possible...Only problem is how to access the hardware...
At least this is my take on this, but I might be wrong
dbl post..
stormlv said:
1) it's possible to use it as a balance because the resistance would be dependent on the pressure, and the pressure depends on the mass in our case
2) it doesn't matter how many points you have... There's only one Rtouch so this means it calculates the overall pressure that is exerted onto the touchscreen. Even though you can only determine one X,Y pair...that's of no interest to us...
All this to say that in theory this is actually possible...Only problem is how to access the hardware...
At least this is my take on this, but I might be wrong
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nice research
cool thats what i was thinking about the screen, but squidgy's thinking seemed logical, but if the resistive screen already calculates the overall pressure thats perfect..
ok so now we know that it is "theoratically" possible we just gotta get to action
im gonna be in vegas this whole weekend so ill try to update my progress when i can
Tool for resistance measurement
If the touchscreen panel that you want to measure is resistive you can measure it's force/displacement and resistance using one of the switch testers offered by a company called TRICOR Systems.
The touchscreen would have to use resistive technology in order to measure the resistance. Most of the newer touchscreens use either capacitive or surface acoustic wave technology.
So I was messing around with the bluetooth on my coworker's 7 this morning and paired it with my Apple BT trackpad. Much to my surprise it showed up with 10+ point multi-touch support (tested in markers app)
it doesnt appear that the touch radius stuff is supported, but its still kinda interesting.
For comparison on my DZ running ICS i get a cursor and you can click but thats about it.
Interesting, does the N7 it's self support 10 touches? That is very impressive to me. I love when the amount of touch data a screen can handle greatly exceeds what is necessary. That means it won't ever be a problem.
Take screens for example, if the max the human eye can see is 300 dpi. Just make all screens at least 600 and we will never have screen issues again. Well...Resolution wise XD
But serious, were you able to control the N7 with that thing?
Locklear308 said:
I love when the amount of touch data a screen can handle greatly exceeds what is necessary. That means it won't ever be a problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Until we evolve an extra finger on each hand, or use our nose/other body parts to click stuff!
yeah, its actually pretty intuitive to control using the external pad. its not quite as natural as touching the actual screen, but i could see it working for something like a presentation or app demo where you didnt want to obstruct the view.
amusingly it crashes markers with 12 touches (i think the trackpad supports ~50 but i may be wrong)
I can only test 10 at the moment but the internal touch hardware does handle at least 10.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrK1wQjh980
They are testing palm print and fingerprints detection by touch screen. Seems that touch resolution is enought to reconize one print from another
And this is the cool stuff: They use a nexus 5 to test... Very interesting
Are you sure it isn't a modified nexus 5?
no
i think that is modified nexus 5. i didnt saw it before
Well judging by what they describe, they are using any touchscreen as a scanner. I don't thing you need to modify anything internally, I think it's more software based.
Basically you just need to root your nexus, and have access to the digitizer directly in order to track patterns when you touch the screen.
Based on the patterns you get to track thanks to the digitizer, you can authenticate or reject an user. For me, it looks totally software based.
Remember that app you use to track how many points you can do on a touchscreen? If you press one it shows you the coordinates and so on and so forth until you reach 10. I think it's based on something like that, except it's probably much more advanced tracking since you can get patterns for fists/ears/fingers etc.
Judging by the looks of it though, I don't think it can read your "fingerprint". I don't think the resolution is enough. So, instead if reads your fist print since the resolution should be enough to calculate who's who. (I don't know if i`m making any sense right now lol).
Anyway, in short, looks okay, as long as you use fists/ears , whatever. Since Google introduced fingerprint auth, I don;t think they are going to allow fists and ears prints in their APIs so I don;t think you;re going to be able to use your fists for buying stuff from Google play, still , for a nerd like me the video is very satisfying.
its a project by Yahoo,... saw it last month i think,... for more info here
personally i think it wont be that secure and in cold climates it would be pretty hard to do that,...
chiragkrishna said:
its a project by Yahoo,... saw it last month i think,... for more info here
personally i think it wont be that secure and in cold climates it would be pretty hard to do that,...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed, this is why i was thinking Google will never allow this in their APIs.
doesn't seem practical, making a fist gesture to unlock your phone or placing it to your ear to unlock or gripping the phone to unlock.
It'll be socially awkward and won't be accepted as much as fingerprint sensors, besides I don't think it'll be that secure anyway.
Fingerprint sensors are the way to go :good:
As more and more devices get these sensors, I think in the long run.. fingerprint sensors will be cheaper
Think about it, A replacement Touch ID sensor on eBay is like $5... it's just the software implementation on it.
I'm not exactly sure how to word this but two fingers on the screen close together doesn't work as well as my Tab S 8.4. On the 8.4, I could have the sides of my index and middle finger touching and the screen would recognize this as two separate points. This freaks the S2 8.0 out, and my fingers tips must be close to 3/4" inch (2cm) apart for them to be recognized as two points.
Is this a hardware thing, or is there a way to adjust this in software? Or am I going to have to custom build a kernel?
Have you tried one of the touch test apps on play to test the touch point recognition?
Yes, I used one to verify.
It seems that there should be a parameter somewhere to determine how close touch zones need to be to be combined into a larger zone, so I'm hoping this is a software issue that can be fixed.
Nice root by the way